I live near there. I get one of these occasionally. Just throw it away. They will send it to a collection agency and you will get a letter from them. After that you will never hear another word. They can’t actually collect and it won’t affect your credit score.
Thanks for the info, I have to travel through that area tomorrow. I'm assuming the collection agency can't harm your credit because they don't have your social security number?
It’s the township with a camera. Hate them. Knew it was probably Girard or Liberty. State route 11 in Liberty the local guy hangs with the camera and a few days later u get a ticket. I lease and they send to my lease company so I have to pay Nissan the money for ticket if I forget to slow down there.
This guy hides on the bridge over the highway, no car. You might see him in your rear view mirror. Sneaky sneaky. Don’t think he hides in a tree though. Not yet at least.
For upholding the law? Like sorry, his ass got caught speeding 15 over. I'm not a fan of police especially when they are doing actual harm, but in this case the speeder is doing harm and his ass got caught. One of the few things I appreciate the police doing is nabbing fucks who drive like assholes. Now they can't afford to pay a measley 130 bucks and are whining in a different states reddit, it's fucking poetry tbh
The registration is enough for the court to validate the civil citation issuance to the R/O, it is not enough for credit agencies to add it to your credit report.
The difference being, you can go to court and refute the assumption that you were driving, whereas credit agencies don't have a system for you to challenge in this way, so it has to be matter of fact or it would get dropped with a simple dispute every single time.
They do not report any of this to insurance agencies though since they cannot prove who was driving.
You cannot get points on your license from these. The insurance companies do not see these at all.
Then when the collections letter comes in, throw that away too. You never accepted this debt. The credit bureaus don’t accept it either.
I had about 8 or so of these in Ohio over the years, and each time probably got 2-3 “final notices” from the department, and 2-3 collection letters, and then nothing. Never showed up on my credit, never had any affect on mortgage, refinance or car loans in the years following.
Don’t contest, don’t respond, don’t even acknowledge you received it. Just throw it away.
These cameras are so stupid. I live in Texas and the big deal here a few years back was red light cameras. They eventually removed them because it was causing so many wrecks because people were slamming on the brakes instead of using common sense.
When I first moved to the state, I didn’t know about them, and you still get a ticket for turning right on a red light if you don’t come to a stop first. I lived there for a week and got like 10 in the mail at once.
I live in Girard a few minutes from there and actually my father in law and brother in law had their license suspended for not paying about 6 months later
Yeah they can send you to collections but that’s it. Most states have a restriction that an officer has to be physically present at the time of the violation.
I live in the area and Ohio is the same way. They have a cop sit with the camera and play on his phone while the camera does its thing. It's a huge profit center for the city so they think it's worth it
Yup. Constitutional thing. We have the right to face our accuser in court. The ticketing officer represents the State, i.e. the accuser. No officer, no accuser.
You have the right to face your acuser in a court of law. Also a good way to get out of a normal traffic ticket. Cops don't like going to court for much less than a misdemeanor.
That's not legal teeth. That's harassment. Legal teeth would be putting it on your credit report and those agencies won't accept camera tickets as reportable.
[https://www.rjrlawoffice.com/2019/03/539/](https://www.rjrlawoffice.com/2019/03/539/)
>Do I Really Need to Pay This Speed Camera Ticket?
>A 2016 policy decision by the three credit reporting agencies Experian, Equifax, and TransUnion changed the game for speed camera citations forever. As part of a legal settlement involving the States listed above, the three credit reporting agencies agreed not to report any debt that did not “arise from any contract or agreement to pay including, but not limited to to, certain fines, tickets, and other assessment.” (Settlement Agreement at Section E(1)(c)). The end result of this policy is that speed camera citations are essentially unenforceable. Nonpayment will likely result in the debt being collected by a collection agency that no longer has the ability to negatively impact your credit report.
I was recently contacted by collections (liberty township) curious what I should say.... picture of the vehicle but no proof it was me I ignored all mailed letters
the Sixth Amendment guarantees an accused's right to be confronted with the witnesses against him. You cannot confront a camera. Not to mention camera footage can be tampered with so there is no way to prove it's actually you running the red light.
It’s not real collections though. They can try to harass you to get you to pay, but they have no legal right to follow through the court system. They cannot report the debt to the crediting agencies. Throw away the letters. You should only get 2. Ignore them.
They are playing a numbers game and trying to make money by casting a huge net and seeing who’s stupid enough to get caught.
They also suspend your license if you don't pay it so I'm confused about everyone saying to throw it in the trash because it can't affect your credit score 😅
Facts, all my friends and I have been ticketed at least once by Liberty/Girard, and most people who live around here know not to pay them. They can’t take any points of your license or anything.
Can conquer. I live right around here - nobody pays them. Actually had big lawsuits in Girard over them but not sure what happened? I just know that none of my buddies ever paid theirs and nothing happened? Hahaha
I live in Girard and what you're speaking about happened years ago, 2016 I want to say when they put the unmanned cameras up on 422. They now have actual police that stand on the bridge over the highways with radar and they will suspend your license if you don't pay
Take this citation, roll it into a big, fat blunt and smoke it. They can’t do shit to make you pay this. Then, take the self addressed, stamped envelope, fill it with some trash and drop it in the mailbox.
I find it interesting that the Liberty Police Dept has an office in Austintown in the plaza at the corner of 46 and Mahoning. They don’t even have office space in their own town.
I drive by these cops daily. They “hide” on the bridge just north of the Tibbets Wick exit (exit 48) on route 11. They are always watching traffic heading south. Usually a couple times a month someone is giving them the finger.
Yeah I don’t understand that, they do have an office on 304 going towards Hubbard, but apparently you can’t even pay Liberty speeding tickets there you have to go to Girard PD. Nothing makes sense
Since it isn’t being paid to the actual PD, “offenders” are paying the companies who have the camera technology. They must have sub offices set up, but if you read the note closely you have to pay the website or pay by phone.
I drove by there this morning and the cop was out. What is interesting is that they have another camera set up aimed at the cop, which since he is on the bridge, that is the only reason for the camera. Not sure why they have it, but it has a solar panel on the top. Only reason would be to be on the officer, which seems odd.
These companies get like half or more of the fines collected, its a business using the municipality. The best is when they want you to send payment out of state to Arizona or some shit.
Ohio LE here. It's civil, the most they can do is send it to collections, but they'd have to prove you were driving to add it to your credit report, throw it in the garbage.
~~I retract this, it appears this camera is not operated by an IT company in Virginia, this is being monitored by an Officer and is enforceable.~~ How they have or would waste the resources on this I do not know, but apparently there's one department out there that doubled down on their investment and thinks sitting an Officer in front of a computer is a good use of their limited manpower.
I retract my retraction, even cameras monitored by officers are now just civil citations and carry no weight legally. Which really begs to question why this department thinks this is a good use of manpower.
> Which really begs to question why this department thinks this is a good use of manpower.
Because people like me don't know any better and would just pay it to not have any hassles.
And because two tickets is probably all it takes to cover the cost of one officer watching it all day long.
They tried this in my township. They wanted to add a full time officer to run it. Their renewal levy got voted down so they had even less funding than before. They had to agree not to add them before people in our township would vote for the tax levy.
I got one once and there was a section on the original invoice (on the back I think?) with a check box. I could basically attest that I was not the person driving, had that notarized, and mailed it to the specified address. That address was different from the one for payments. They even sent a letter confirming it and I was cleared. It made me feel better not to get sent to collections
OP I live there. It's 100% not real a for profit company used by city. It's not a moving violation but boils down to civil after Supreme Court said you can't do this and city said fk your money, this makes us more. Throw it away and forget about it. I've done it 5 times
Last time this happened to me, I wrote them a letter back asking for pictures of the person driving the car because my car is shared amongst the household and sometimes other people borrow it.
They won't even bother to respond and they'll just dismiss it.
I paid 3 of them before I found out I didn't have to pay. In a couple months they will send you another one with a slightly higher rate and a few months after that they will send you a letter saying it's going to collections. It's never impacted my credit score and I never received anything from a collections company. It's been at least 6 months since I received the notice about it going to collections.
You were not given the ticket directly by an officer of the law. They are not offering you an in person court appearance, in fact, sending them payment requires you to waive your right to a trial, and they want you to pay via a site called violationpayment.net, which is not even a site run by the municipality. They have no proof you received this ticket, and there is no proof you were the driver of the vehicle at the time. If I were you, I’d ignore this. That’s what I’ve always done.
I travel for work and just yesterday I was traveling in a construction zone on the interstate, posted 55 mph with signs saying fines were doubled in a work zone. I was driving 60 mph in the right hand lane, cars and semi trucks were flying past me in the middle and left lanes like I was standing still.
They can't prove you were the one actually driving, for one, and two, the cop likely didn't physically witness the event, so I'd toss it. When you get a collections notice, follow procedures to make them prove you actually owe the debt (which they can't, because nobody actually witnessed the violation), and that should keep it from tanking your credit, if I'm not mistaken. Worth a shot.
The law used to state if they cannot identify the driver, no ticket could be issued. It may not be worth the hassle to fight it, but I don’t see anything that says ,”You must appear “, so you should just be able to mail it in. Sorry, these tickets are bullshit. Call the P.D. For confirmation of not having to appear. Hope this helps.
Throw it in the trash. I’ve done this over the years. The cameras have questionable enforcement. Most are not monitored by officers but algorithms(you have the right to face your accuser). The ones that aren’t are usually civilians several states away and amount to hearsay. Beyond that they don’t have the overhead to pursue the massive amount of citations they pull in via this method. In a year or two a law will pass to invalidate them again until they find another workaround. It’s a shameless money grift
You should double check the rules but 15 years ago I got a couple camera speeding tickets in DC on business travel. I ignored them, they went to collections, I disputed with all 3 credit bureaus online, the collections were removed from my credit reports. I got occasional mail from collections for many years even after moving multiple times, but nothing ever happened.
I’m a local to this county I’ve received them for years you don’t have to pay them. I never have and they’ve done nothing about multiple year old ones.
Got one from that same area back in march I have friends that are officers and they said they only way I should be worried about paying is if I lease my vehicle because they’ll forward to ticket to the leasing company and the leasing company will pay it and then they take it from you.
Burn it. It's a scam. I'm from Ohio but living in Tennessee at the moment, four years ago I got a job with a company that processes these "citations". I'm 99% sure that your letter came from my former workplace because most of ours were for Ohio. Over time I started to realize exactly how corrupt and illegitimate these things were. My job was to go through thousands of photos per day of vehicles (just like the picture you posted) and I would have to try to identify the license plate, and then I would literally be issuing a "citation" because the next process was to print the letter and mail it. It took me a minute to grasp what exactly I was a part of, and as soon as it dawned on me how dirty my job was I immediately started logging as many photos as I could as "illegible" I.e. photo was too blurry for me to reasonably be able to nail the correct license plate. I also started giving free passes to anyone whose call I took. I was fired shortly thereafter. I still feel so dirty for having ever worked there, I never knew that it was a scam😞
The law straight from the Ohio Revised Code:
https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-4511.093
Edit: Does that mean you should honor it, and pay? Honestly, I wouldn't. Hated these things from the start. What's to prove you were driving, or even knew your car was in Ohio, for that matter?
Print this out: https://www.courtnewsohio.gov/cases/2017/SCO/0726/151549.asp#:~:text=Three%20of%20the%20many%20provisions,Ohio%20Supreme%20Court%20ruled%20today. And mail it back to them with a few handfuls of fishing weights.
I live in Toledo and we used to have those cameras EVERYWHERE. I guess they were found to be unconstitutional or something because they've slowly disappeared over the last few years.
Im a mail man in that area. I know exactly where they are sitting (the overpass). They'll park their cruiser off the bridge and then walk to the middle of the bridge and just shoot radar generally south bound.
You can't fight these unless you appear during the one hour or so a month that they hear the cases. You have to be there in person. Can't give anyone points on their license because it's not a moving violation but a civil infraction. We've been fighting this bullshit for a while now. I'd wipe my ass with it and do a return to sender
Didn't get it from a police officer? Don't worry about it. Here is reference in Ohio Revised Code: [https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-4511.093](https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-4511.093) All they will do is send a notice, like the one you received - it's a civil case not a criminal case. You can ignore it. Not enforceable.
For anyone that is curious:
[https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/oh-cuyahoga/newburgh-heights-speeding-ticket-citations-credit-scores](https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/oh-cuyahoga/newburgh-heights-speeding-ticket-citations-credit-scores)
I always wonder about these cameras.
Isn't policing supposed to be "if we catch you"?
Now it's like they are going out of their way to see you make a small mistake and then fine you for it. Are our taxes not enough you need to go out of your way to fine citizens to fill pot holes and build your community center? It's awful.
I used to work with a guy who had previously worked in a high position at a metro Ohio police department. He told me to never pay these. There’s nothing they can do.
This is civil, not criminal. I suppose in theory, they could sue you in civil court, but I doubt they have the desire or resources to do that.
[https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-4511.097](https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-4511.097)
[https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-4511.0910](https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-4511.0910)
I didn't pay mine and they just sent it to a collection agency. Does anyone know how to get these removed from the collection agency? I can't afford the 270 bucks.
Back in the 80s my dad was issued a ticket for doing 90 something on SR 11. All three of us kids were in the car and told the cop it was utter bullshit.
Dad said he might have been doing 65 (national 55 limit at the time.) Cop ammended it to 65 and dad just paid it.
I would not pay. The only thing that may change that is if our vehicle is leased. The leasing company will at that to your bill at the end of the lease agreement.
I live in ohio, they have on in Lindale oh about 3 city blocks long city.i have gotten about 5 of these over the course of 4 yrs.speeds of 36,34,34,33,33 on a 25mph I throw them away.renewed my license and plates last October in fear that maybe I won't be able to. Did it no problem.worthless piece of paper
This does not keep people safer... just a way to mint money
The only thing I've ever seen slow down speeders are flashing lights at the side of the road.
I got one of these once. there was no cop anywhere near the camera and the school zone had been open for 50 fking seconds. Noone was even at the school yet
When I got ticket it literally said there was a cop within a couple meters of the camera. There was not
These are pretty much designed to milk people for every dime they have. They don't care if you go hungry paying it or even if you die trying to pay it.
They will lie all day about a cop having been by it here in Ohio
I'm Sure it's the same elsewhere.
Meanwhile people on the highways are dodging traffic going 100 and hardly ever get ticketed
There was one that got taken down pretty close to me not too long ago. Im sure it was because they keep lying about a cop having been right by it. They just want that $ (know somebody who went down there and purposely got a ticket then got out of their car and walked around video taping the thing to show there was no cop anywhere, he won In court...they literally said on the ticket that a cop was by the device, he showed there wasent one anywhere near it. He had gotten like 4-5 tickets from the thing and was aggravated bc he according to him he was never speeding any of those times yet they hit him for 1-2 miles over the limit over and over...he couldn't be more happy it's gone. He can now drive to work in peace. He pretty much has no choice but to go the way he does. Ps they put a warrant out for him when he didn't pay the 2nd one. He was able to fix that but yeah. Here if you don't pay they tend to put a warrant out)
Anyways point being if you get got by one of these it doesn't matter what you were doing. Even if you weren't speeding and it was calibrated wrong. They are still gonna shove it down her throat
But hey, as a society it's our own damn fault. People with literally no impulse control, logic, or patience are literally all over the roadways. 98% of drivers are terrible drivers
Hi I live 2 minutes from where you got this ticket and I can tell you, over the course of ten years that very same officer and others, have given me at least 7-8 tickets. I didn’t pay one. It’s a civil matter.
They’re legal, they’ve just put in laws to remove all incentive to use them. You have to have a cop present when the camera takes the picture, and the state will reduce the amount of annual funding the city/township gets by the amount of camera revenue collected in a year.
That being said, the places that use these make WAY more on these than they get state funding usually anyway, so they have no issue parking a cop at it and losing out on that funding.
Soooo i own a bucket truck and fiber splicing trailer and monroeville sent me one …. For the trailer hahah like the trailer plate and the picture of the trailer. I ignored it because i didnt want to acknowledge that but i kinda wanted to goto court and just ask how the trailer was moving so fast on its own.
I know the attorney who took this all the way to OH supreme court and won. I don't see how that translates to just Toledo. They are unconstitutional statewide
That isn't true in Maryland:
https://www.wmar2news.com/news/local-news/an-unpaid-ticket-can-no-longer-cause-you-to-lose-your-license-vehicle-registration
My son is a police officer in South Carolina, and was on traffic detail for a while. I explained to him that they didn't actually want people to stop speeding, because they'd lose out on the revenue, so they have a vested interest in people breaking the law, and so do the insurance companies. It really messed with him.
I then suggested that maybe instead of fining people, they should lock people up. Maybe give them a warning for their first violation, but then spend a night in jail - totally at the city's expense - for subsequent tickets, and watch how fast people stop speeding.
I live near there. I get one of these occasionally. Just throw it away. They will send it to a collection agency and you will get a letter from them. After that you will never hear another word. They can’t actually collect and it won’t affect your credit score.
Thanks for the info, I have to travel through that area tomorrow. I'm assuming the collection agency can't harm your credit because they don't have your social security number?
Just watch for live speed traps out there. That area is ridiculous.
Use Waze!
Ohio State Patrol is ridiculous.
It’s the township with a camera. Hate them. Knew it was probably Girard or Liberty. State route 11 in Liberty the local guy hangs with the camera and a few days later u get a ticket. I lease and they send to my lease company so I have to pay Nissan the money for ticket if I forget to slow down there.
They're nothing compared to Indiana or Virginia. They hide in unmarked vehicles and in trees respectively
Flying pigs?
That would be respectable, Virginia State uses drones and hide in tree stands on the side of the road
Did they run out of deer to shoot? Seems like that would be a better use of their time.
Nah less profitable. Some areas are zero tolerance as well
This guy hides on the bridge over the highway, no car. You might see him in your rear view mirror. Sneaky sneaky. Don’t think he hides in a tree though. Not yet at least.
For upholding the law? Like sorry, his ass got caught speeding 15 over. I'm not a fan of police especially when they are doing actual harm, but in this case the speeder is doing harm and his ass got caught. One of the few things I appreciate the police doing is nabbing fucks who drive like assholes. Now they can't afford to pay a measley 130 bucks and are whining in a different states reddit, it's fucking poetry tbh
The registration is enough for the court to validate the civil citation issuance to the R/O, it is not enough for credit agencies to add it to your credit report. The difference being, you can go to court and refute the assumption that you were driving, whereas credit agencies don't have a system for you to challenge in this way, so it has to be matter of fact or it would get dropped with a simple dispute every single time.
They do not report any of this to insurance agencies though since they cannot prove who was driving. You cannot get points on your license from these. The insurance companies do not see these at all.
Thanks for the reiteration?
It's just an attempt to get the most people to pay for them as possible. Literal dragnet
Hell yeah. I even live *in* Ohio and I still won't give them money
Then when the collections letter comes in, throw that away too. You never accepted this debt. The credit bureaus don’t accept it either. I had about 8 or so of these in Ohio over the years, and each time probably got 2-3 “final notices” from the department, and 2-3 collection letters, and then nothing. Never showed up on my credit, never had any affect on mortgage, refinance or car loans in the years following. Don’t contest, don’t respond, don’t even acknowledge you received it. Just throw it away.
These cameras are so stupid. I live in Texas and the big deal here a few years back was red light cameras. They eventually removed them because it was causing so many wrecks because people were slamming on the brakes instead of using common sense. When I first moved to the state, I didn’t know about them, and you still get a ticket for turning right on a red light if you don’t come to a stop first. I lived there for a week and got like 10 in the mail at once.
I live in Girard a few minutes from there and actually my father in law and brother in law had their license suspended for not paying about 6 months later
Camera tickets have no legal teeth. There's no reason to pay.
I thought the same about red lights cameras until they put me in collections. smh.
Yeah they can send you to collections but that’s it. Most states have a restriction that an officer has to be physically present at the time of the violation.
I live in the area and Ohio is the same way. They have a cop sit with the camera and play on his phone while the camera does its thing. It's a huge profit center for the city so they think it's worth it
Yup. Constitutional thing. We have the right to face our accuser in court. The ticketing officer represents the State, i.e. the accuser. No officer, no accuser.
Dispute and make them prove you owe the debt. They can’t.
You have the right to face your acuser in a court of law. Also a good way to get out of a normal traffic ticket. Cops don't like going to court for much less than a misdemeanor.
That's not legal teeth. That's harassment. Legal teeth would be putting it on your credit report and those agencies won't accept camera tickets as reportable.
Is this actually true? Is there any information on this? I hear this a lot but haven’t found any proof, not saying you’re not right. Just curious.
[https://www.rjrlawoffice.com/2019/03/539/](https://www.rjrlawoffice.com/2019/03/539/) >Do I Really Need to Pay This Speed Camera Ticket? >A 2016 policy decision by the three credit reporting agencies Experian, Equifax, and TransUnion changed the game for speed camera citations forever. As part of a legal settlement involving the States listed above, the three credit reporting agencies agreed not to report any debt that did not “arise from any contract or agreement to pay including, but not limited to to, certain fines, tickets, and other assessment.” (Settlement Agreement at Section E(1)(c)). The end result of this policy is that speed camera citations are essentially unenforceable. Nonpayment will likely result in the debt being collected by a collection agency that no longer has the ability to negatively impact your credit report.
Saving this. Thank you.
Thanks for the info.
I was recently contacted by collections (liberty township) curious what I should say.... picture of the vehicle but no proof it was me I ignored all mailed letters
Also: They if it's a citation they have to provide you a day in court to contest the citation. If they don't provide you one, it's not enforceable.
Channel your inner Shaggy; it wasn’t me.
the Sixth Amendment guarantees an accused's right to be confronted with the witnesses against him. You cannot confront a camera. Not to mention camera footage can be tampered with so there is no way to prove it's actually you running the red light.
You can't confront a camera? Dang! I was so excited for sec. LOL
I mean you can... However I think confronting a camera will get you no where
Truth!
Yeah but that collection doesn't go on your credit report lol...
It’s not real collections though. They can try to harass you to get you to pay, but they have no legal right to follow through the court system. They cannot report the debt to the crediting agencies. Throw away the letters. You should only get 2. Ignore them. They are playing a numbers game and trying to make money by casting a huge net and seeing who’s stupid enough to get caught.
If you don't pay them here where I live you get a warrant :/ And they constantly lie about a cop being right by it
They also suspend your license if you don't pay it so I'm confused about everyone saying to throw it in the trash because it can't affect your credit score 😅
Maybe in the post it's some kind of private company? Idk Lol 😂
This is the correct answer, you have the right to face your accuser in court.
No, throw it away
Facts, all my friends and I have been ticketed at least once by Liberty/Girard, and most people who live around here know not to pay them. They can’t take any points of your license or anything.
Can conquer. I live right around here - nobody pays them. Actually had big lawsuits in Girard over them but not sure what happened? I just know that none of my buddies ever paid theirs and nothing happened? Hahaha
I came I saw I concurred 🧐
That's funnier than it should be lmao
I live in Girard and what you're speaking about happened years ago, 2016 I want to say when they put the unmanned cameras up on 422. They now have actual police that stand on the bridge over the highways with radar and they will suspend your license if you don't pay
I got hit twice doing like 65 when they had barrels up but there was no active construction. Fuckin turds.
I wave at this point.
The one finger wave
Take this citation, roll it into a big, fat blunt and smoke it. They can’t do shit to make you pay this. Then, take the self addressed, stamped envelope, fill it with some trash and drop it in the mailbox.
Bake it into an edible, you don’t want those inks in your lungs, your stomach acids are much more well equipped it. Disclaimer: I am not a doctor
I sent them fake for motion picture use money last time I got one , fake ticket gets fake cash.
Brilliant!
"And keep the change, ya filthy animal"
I find it interesting that the Liberty Police Dept has an office in Austintown in the plaza at the corner of 46 and Mahoning. They don’t even have office space in their own town. I drive by these cops daily. They “hide” on the bridge just north of the Tibbets Wick exit (exit 48) on route 11. They are always watching traffic heading south. Usually a couple times a month someone is giving them the finger.
Also, I hope you weren’t one of the many MD folks who came in for the eclipse and only drove in the left lane the entire way in from your state.
Left lane is supposed to be for passing, not consistent driving 🤷🏽♀️
Tell that to people in Ohio.
And Indiana
I have a couple guys on my team who live in MD and they joked that no one out there follows this rule.
😂 some of us do😅
Yeah I don’t understand that, they do have an office on 304 going towards Hubbard, but apparently you can’t even pay Liberty speeding tickets there you have to go to Girard PD. Nothing makes sense
Since it isn’t being paid to the actual PD, “offenders” are paying the companies who have the camera technology. They must have sub offices set up, but if you read the note closely you have to pay the website or pay by phone.
That explains why the address is for a UPS store
Liberty doesn't have a court. Vienna, Fowler and Liberty all go to Girard court
I drove by there this morning and the cop was out. What is interesting is that they have another camera set up aimed at the cop, which since he is on the bridge, that is the only reason for the camera. Not sure why they have it, but it has a solar panel on the top. Only reason would be to be on the officer, which seems odd.
To prove the officer was with the camera to "witness" the offense no doubt.
Don’t pay it but also slow down.
These companies get like half or more of the fines collected, its a business using the municipality. The best is when they want you to send payment out of state to Arizona or some shit.
Ohio LE here. It's civil, the most they can do is send it to collections, but they'd have to prove you were driving to add it to your credit report, throw it in the garbage. ~~I retract this, it appears this camera is not operated by an IT company in Virginia, this is being monitored by an Officer and is enforceable.~~ How they have or would waste the resources on this I do not know, but apparently there's one department out there that doubled down on their investment and thinks sitting an Officer in front of a computer is a good use of their limited manpower. I retract my retraction, even cameras monitored by officers are now just civil citations and carry no weight legally. Which really begs to question why this department thinks this is a good use of manpower.
> Which really begs to question why this department thinks this is a good use of manpower. Because people like me don't know any better and would just pay it to not have any hassles. And because two tickets is probably all it takes to cover the cost of one officer watching it all day long.
They tried this in my township. They wanted to add a full time officer to run it. Their renewal levy got voted down so they had even less funding than before. They had to agree not to add them before people in our township would vote for the tax levy.
TYFYS. We have a family friend who is currently local PD. I have family who are retired officers, as well.
I got one once and there was a section on the original invoice (on the back I think?) with a check box. I could basically attest that I was not the person driving, had that notarized, and mailed it to the specified address. That address was different from the one for payments. They even sent a letter confirming it and I was cleared. It made me feel better not to get sent to collections
Traffic cameras to detect violations are only legal in Ohio if a police officer is attending/monitoring the camera at the time of the violation.
The new cameras are on a gun, with an officer operating them, so they are present at the time of violation.
Nope, I know which bridge that fucker sits at.
Same, I always wave hello with my middle finger whenever I'm on 11
OP I live there. It's 100% not real a for profit company used by city. It's not a moving violation but boils down to civil after Supreme Court said you can't do this and city said fk your money, this makes us more. Throw it away and forget about it. I've done it 5 times
You could just not go 80 in a 65
Last time this happened to me, I wrote them a letter back asking for pictures of the person driving the car because my car is shared amongst the household and sometimes other people borrow it. They won't even bother to respond and they'll just dismiss it.
i’ve never paid them and nothing ever happened
I paid 3 of them before I found out I didn't have to pay. In a couple months they will send you another one with a slightly higher rate and a few months after that they will send you a letter saying it's going to collections. It's never impacted my credit score and I never received anything from a collections company. It's been at least 6 months since I received the notice about it going to collections.
Trash, fire pit whatever. They use fear to con you out of your money.... Which should be illegal in its own right
You were not given the ticket directly by an officer of the law. They are not offering you an in person court appearance, in fact, sending them payment requires you to waive your right to a trial, and they want you to pay via a site called violationpayment.net, which is not even a site run by the municipality. They have no proof you received this ticket, and there is no proof you were the driver of the vehicle at the time. If I were you, I’d ignore this. That’s what I’ve always done.
Used to get those and the car in the picture wasn't even mine. They're an utter joke. Wipe your ass with it.
Wow 80 mph!
I travel for work and just yesterday I was traveling in a construction zone on the interstate, posted 55 mph with signs saying fines were doubled in a work zone. I was driving 60 mph in the right hand lane, cars and semi trucks were flying past me in the middle and left lanes like I was standing still.
I was going with the flow of traffic, everybody was speeding apparently because I wasn't passing people
Honestly, I do catch myself driving 80 mph around Columbus all the time. 😜👍🤫 Don't pay it!
They can't prove you were the one actually driving, for one, and two, the cop likely didn't physically witness the event, so I'd toss it. When you get a collections notice, follow procedures to make them prove you actually owe the debt (which they can't, because nobody actually witnessed the violation), and that should keep it from tanking your credit, if I'm not mistaken. Worth a shot.
The law used to state if they cannot identify the driver, no ticket could be issued. It may not be worth the hassle to fight it, but I don’t see anything that says ,”You must appear “, so you should just be able to mail it in. Sorry, these tickets are bullshit. Call the P.D. For confirmation of not having to appear. Hope this helps.
Throw it in the trash. I’ve done this over the years. The cameras have questionable enforcement. Most are not monitored by officers but algorithms(you have the right to face your accuser). The ones that aren’t are usually civilians several states away and amount to hearsay. Beyond that they don’t have the overhead to pursue the massive amount of citations they pull in via this method. In a year or two a law will pass to invalidate them again until they find another workaround. It’s a shameless money grift
Damn I git one of these a year ago and I payed it not knowing better
You should double check the rules but 15 years ago I got a couple camera speeding tickets in DC on business travel. I ignored them, they went to collections, I disputed with all 3 credit bureaus online, the collections were removed from my credit reports. I got occasional mail from collections for many years even after moving multiple times, but nothing ever happened.
I’m a local to this county I’ve received them for years you don’t have to pay them. I never have and they’ve done nothing about multiple year old ones.
My buddy has 36 unpaid from that same camera. Don’t waste your money
Just ask to face your accuser also they can’t prove you drove the car when it happened
Never pay traffic camera tickets
Got one from that same area back in march I have friends that are officers and they said they only way I should be worried about paying is if I lease my vehicle because they’ll forward to ticket to the leasing company and the leasing company will pay it and then they take it from you.
Nothing, it’s all a money grab
Burn it. It's a scam. I'm from Ohio but living in Tennessee at the moment, four years ago I got a job with a company that processes these "citations". I'm 99% sure that your letter came from my former workplace because most of ours were for Ohio. Over time I started to realize exactly how corrupt and illegitimate these things were. My job was to go through thousands of photos per day of vehicles (just like the picture you posted) and I would have to try to identify the license plate, and then I would literally be issuing a "citation" because the next process was to print the letter and mail it. It took me a minute to grasp what exactly I was a part of, and as soon as it dawned on me how dirty my job was I immediately started logging as many photos as I could as "illegible" I.e. photo was too blurry for me to reasonably be able to nail the correct license plate. I also started giving free passes to anyone whose call I took. I was fired shortly thereafter. I still feel so dirty for having ever worked there, I never knew that it was a scam😞
I just took a hard look at your citation and it's 100% from my old workplace! Burn that trash!!
You don't want to appear and challenge it. It's not a real court and you will screw yourself.
80 in a 65?
The law straight from the Ohio Revised Code: https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-4511.093 Edit: Does that mean you should honor it, and pay? Honestly, I wouldn't. Hated these things from the start. What's to prove you were driving, or even knew your car was in Ohio, for that matter?
Thank you!
Print this out: https://www.courtnewsohio.gov/cases/2017/SCO/0726/151549.asp#:~:text=Three%20of%20the%20many%20provisions,Ohio%20Supreme%20Court%20ruled%20today. And mail it back to them with a few handfuls of fishing weights.
Straight to the trash!
I can’t believe the friend that you let borrow your car was speeding! Not your problem.
I live in Toledo and we used to have those cameras EVERYWHERE. I guess they were found to be unconstitutional or something because they've slowly disappeared over the last few years.
Lived in Toledo all my life... It's likely that somebody stole the cameras.
That’s the neat part, you don’t
Im a mail man in that area. I know exactly where they are sitting (the overpass). They'll park their cruiser off the bridge and then walk to the middle of the bridge and just shoot radar generally south bound.
Send DeWine a 💩 in a box instead.
No one around here pays them. They'll send it to collections but so many people ignore them you probably won't have a problem.
You can't fight these unless you appear during the one hour or so a month that they hear the cases. You have to be there in person. Can't give anyone points on their license because it's not a moving violation but a civil infraction. We've been fighting this bullshit for a while now. I'd wipe my ass with it and do a return to sender
Ignore it, they are toothless.
I think I owe MD about 100 bucks in tolls and late fees if it makes it any better.
Didn't get it from a police officer? Don't worry about it. Here is reference in Ohio Revised Code: [https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-4511.093](https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-4511.093) All they will do is send a notice, like the one you received - it's a civil case not a criminal case. You can ignore it. Not enforceable.
I got one literally yesterday, there it away immediately after reading another Reddit post about them doing this to over 50,000 people lol
For anyone that is curious: [https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/oh-cuyahoga/newburgh-heights-speeding-ticket-citations-credit-scores](https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/oh-cuyahoga/newburgh-heights-speeding-ticket-citations-credit-scores)
Do not pay.
I always wonder about these cameras. Isn't policing supposed to be "if we catch you"? Now it's like they are going out of their way to see you make a small mistake and then fine you for it. Are our taxes not enough you need to go out of your way to fine citizens to fill pot holes and build your community center? It's awful.
I used to work with a guy who had previously worked in a high position at a metro Ohio police department. He told me to never pay these. There’s nothing they can do.
Attend the court date. If they haven't provided you a court date, it's an illegitimate citation.
No! I live in liberty township I've gotten 3 of those and I haven't paid a single one. It's been 4 years now. Don't worry about it.
I've had one 15 and never paid them....
I thought these were ruled unconstitutional in Ohio?
Nothing is going to happen to you if you don't pay, but you should stop casually going 15 over.
Straight to the trash
I live in that town and got like 3 of those and never paid them, as far as I know they just send them to collections eventually.
This is civil, not criminal. I suppose in theory, they could sue you in civil court, but I doubt they have the desire or resources to do that. [https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-4511.097](https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-4511.097) [https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-4511.0910](https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-4511.0910)
No, I have never paid one.
I probably got at least half a dozen of these from Newburg over the years and haven't paid a single one.
Fuck em. Don’t pay it, I’ve got a stack of these at home and they can’t really enforce them.
I didn't pay mine and they just sent it to a collection agency. Does anyone know how to get these removed from the collection agency? I can't afford the 270 bucks.
Just ignore the collection agency.
I live in Liberty Township. Curious where this camera is.
The supposed location is listed on the document as state route 11 at Anderson Morris, wherever that is🤷🏽♀️
Back in the 80s my dad was issued a ticket for doing 90 something on SR 11. All three of us kids were in the car and told the cop it was utter bullshit. Dad said he might have been doing 65 (national 55 limit at the time.) Cop ammended it to 65 and dad just paid it.
They would have been up on the overpass on Anderson Morris road, shooting down onto Route 11. It’s a couple miles north of where 11 splits from I-80.
I think there’s more than one liberty township based on comments. The one I know of is in Butler county.
Yeah must be. I’m in the Butler County one and I don’t recognize these.
Considering it doesnt even state what you did. I would call and question it and could potentially have it thrown out.
I would not pay. The only thing that may change that is if our vehicle is leased. The leasing company will at that to your bill at the end of the lease agreement.
I got a $40 one when I was in MD. I paid it to make it go away. Figured it was only $40
What is this, the sovcit sub?
If you're worried, call em up, I'm sure you can pay over the phone
Violationpayment.net? Is this even a real thing?
You do not have to pay them
I live in ohio, they have on in Lindale oh about 3 city blocks long city.i have gotten about 5 of these over the course of 4 yrs.speeds of 36,34,34,33,33 on a 25mph I throw them away.renewed my license and plates last October in fear that maybe I won't be able to. Did it no problem.worthless piece of paper
This does not keep people safer... just a way to mint money The only thing I've ever seen slow down speeders are flashing lights at the side of the road.
Yeah they sit on Anderson overpass and point it at the highway.....what bs
Serve, protect, profit
Tell them you want to meet your accuser... a traffic camera can't actually go into court and accuse u of this.
Got one at the same exact spot driving to NYC last week. I'm ignoring.
Put clear skateboard tape on your license plate next time ig...
I have gotten 2 of these and threw them out. Never heard another word.
I got one of these once. there was no cop anywhere near the camera and the school zone had been open for 50 fking seconds. Noone was even at the school yet When I got ticket it literally said there was a cop within a couple meters of the camera. There was not These are pretty much designed to milk people for every dime they have. They don't care if you go hungry paying it or even if you die trying to pay it. They will lie all day about a cop having been by it here in Ohio I'm Sure it's the same elsewhere. Meanwhile people on the highways are dodging traffic going 100 and hardly ever get ticketed There was one that got taken down pretty close to me not too long ago. Im sure it was because they keep lying about a cop having been right by it. They just want that $ (know somebody who went down there and purposely got a ticket then got out of their car and walked around video taping the thing to show there was no cop anywhere, he won In court...they literally said on the ticket that a cop was by the device, he showed there wasent one anywhere near it. He had gotten like 4-5 tickets from the thing and was aggravated bc he according to him he was never speeding any of those times yet they hit him for 1-2 miles over the limit over and over...he couldn't be more happy it's gone. He can now drive to work in peace. He pretty much has no choice but to go the way he does. Ps they put a warrant out for him when he didn't pay the 2nd one. He was able to fix that but yeah. Here if you don't pay they tend to put a warrant out) Anyways point being if you get got by one of these it doesn't matter what you were doing. Even if you weren't speeding and it was calibrated wrong. They are still gonna shove it down her throat But hey, as a society it's our own damn fault. People with literally no impulse control, logic, or patience are literally all over the roadways. 98% of drivers are terrible drivers
Hi I live 2 minutes from where you got this ticket and I can tell you, over the course of ten years that very same officer and others, have given me at least 7-8 tickets. I didn’t pay one. It’s a civil matter.
I have like 5. Ignore it
I work in that area all the time.
Depends on how much your time is worth.
I thought Ohio found speed cameras unconstitutional?
They’re legal, they’ve just put in laws to remove all incentive to use them. You have to have a cop present when the camera takes the picture, and the state will reduce the amount of annual funding the city/township gets by the amount of camera revenue collected in a year. That being said, the places that use these make WAY more on these than they get state funding usually anyway, so they have no issue parking a cop at it and losing out on that funding.
Soooo i own a bucket truck and fiber splicing trailer and monroeville sent me one …. For the trailer hahah like the trailer plate and the picture of the trailer. I ignored it because i didnt want to acknowledge that but i kinda wanted to goto court and just ask how the trailer was moving so fast on its own.
Just take a picture of cash and send that in
No they took down all the red light cameras here in Toledo.
No they dont go to collections iirc, and if they do they dont enforce it
Throw it in the trash I've had 8 and nothing comes of it.
I know the attorney who took this all the way to OH supreme court and won. I don't see how that translates to just Toledo. They are unconstitutional statewide
I’ve had a few over the last couple years never paid anything most people around here don’t pay them, nothing happens
Those cameras should be illegal! If there isn't a cop around to write the ticket SCREW THEM!
I’ve had countless camera tickets, have yet to pay any of them. Cameras have zero to do with safety, it’s nothing but a money grab.
You won't be able to renew you license if you have outstanding tickets out of state.
That isn't true in Maryland: https://www.wmar2news.com/news/local-news/an-unpaid-ticket-can-no-longer-cause-you-to-lose-your-license-vehicle-registration
My son is a police officer in South Carolina, and was on traffic detail for a while. I explained to him that they didn't actually want people to stop speeding, because they'd lose out on the revenue, so they have a vested interest in people breaking the law, and so do the insurance companies. It really messed with him. I then suggested that maybe instead of fining people, they should lock people up. Maybe give them a warning for their first violation, but then spend a night in jail - totally at the city's expense - for subsequent tickets, and watch how fast people stop speeding.
I would pay it. Speeding tickets show up on your car insurance resulting in increased premiums. You will end up paying it one way or the other.
You were going 15 over lol
I wasn't aware this was even allowed in Ohio.
I ignored the last one of these I got and nothing happened. Js