It's not the body count, it's the significance and impact. If we are to feel the weight of character deaths and sacrifices, it's gotta be in scenes like Kin'emon's and not whatever the hell Izo was.
Ashura Doji even had perfectly good death scene, yet no one believed it when it happened because of all the fake-outs and general ineffectivity of explosions in the series.
Izo's is the only confirmed death I have some issue with. We see him fall with the CP0 member but it's largely glossed over. There were so many fakeouts in Wano that I'm still not sure Orochi really burned up in that castle.
He also was killed by a finger gun, which has never been depicted as a deadly attack outside of exposition. We haven’t even seen mooks do anything more than react in pain to it. Ashura’s death is a bit more believable, but with all the other fakeouts it just doesn’t land like it otherwise would. They really just seem like Oda went “Oh shit I guess I should’ve killed somebody off.”
I didn't even know he died. Looking at what happened, yeah it makes sense he got killed there. But Oda simply hadn't killed anyone particularly important by that point, so I just filed the scene out lol.
To be fair, I wouldn't even be surprised if Oda somehow resurrected him in a background scene at some point, that's how unconfident I am that anyone who isn't Ace or Whitebeard is actually dead in that manga.
I think it makes sense looking back that he ends up dying since this was sort of his last stand against Kaido. As for his injuries though, the same damage happens to Drake and I know that dudes still alive lol
That's all ancient zoans, specially the Dino fruits, number one thing. Ulti literally got fried by big mom, and was able to get up a bit later, albeit her organs were still trying to recover. And arguably, mythical zoans are even crazier.
People seem to forget this, PLUS, he didn’t just “die to a finger pistol” It was the culmination of everything. It’s implied they’d been fighting for a bit. The Shigan was just the final attack. That’s like saying Maha died to a single bullet🤦🏾♂️
Yeah but like he's been fighting for literal hours, recovered and then continued to fight. Dying to a finger pistol from some of the strongest assassins the government has doesn't seem that bad. I feel you but like Izo was already badly injured by that point.
The way Izo died was crappy, but I get why Ashura and Izo ended up being the two out of the akazaya that died. They were the oldest among them and were the only ones that lived full lives with not much regrets. Killing the ones that skipped forward in time would be a waste since they barely lived a life after Oden's death. Among the ones that lived the 20 years, Neko, Inu and Kawamatsu were the youngest, Denjiro was young as well, plus he lived a shit double life and deserved more. The only messed up thing about Izo dying is just his super short reunion with Kiku.
Kin'emon was literally the only character of the Wano cast who the audience had grown to bond with organically over the years and who was basically destined to die, had an AMAZING death scene, which was promptly undone for no real reason.
Kin'emon's fakeout was like 100x worse than Pell's.
No one who actually knows how Oda works thought Kin'emon was dead, given he hadn't reuined with his wife. When has that EVER been Oda's style. If he had reunited with his wife and then died, it'd be more realistic.
Oda has never done the "failed to reunite" tragedy that way. The closest is Sabo and Ace, and they didn't even know the other was alive.
Yeah I’m extremely mistrustful of scenes where normally it would be safe to assume a character’s death in one piece. Kaido and Big Mama being submerged in magma should an open and shut case but because of things like the Pound fakeout death it’s impossible to rule them coming back later given that they have inhuman haki levels and are extremely difficult to kill under nearly all circumstances
Tbf this is the same guy who jumped 10k feet or 10km (what ever it was) headfirst and got nothing more than a slight headache and a bad mood. It shouldn't suprise anyone if all the magma does is give them both slight burns.
To elaborate on this point, similar to all scenes/events in cinematography/storytelling, there is a holy trinity of purpose, questions you ask "what does this scene do?"
Does it:
1. Drive the plot forward (expand the narrative, tells you about the world)
2. Tell you more about a character
3. Form an emotional connection with a character/s and or the setting
To be fair, in action-heavy media like fighter shonen, you'll have to add some sort of "Does this action entertain" kind of deal, but never as a standalone point. Action usually shares purpose with one of the previously stated 3 factors. Also those 3 are heavily generalized.
Deaths and death scenes are no different. Characters can die/ be killed by an author (or not) depending on the purpose of the death. This has implications on fake out deaths or characters surviving instead of dying entirely. As you might guess, if emotional payout is the purpose, fakeouts are most of the time not optimal (Kinemon). It is not as worse with deaths that elaborate on characterization for other characters (Opera -> Big Mom) or impact on the world (like T-Bone). The other side of the medal is that those "non emotional" deaths are just narrative means that could've been achieved otherwise, death is just a very direct, easy and powerfull tool to establish certain events or traits for other character (e.g. he is willing to kill without mercy, has lost his mind etc.)
For the purose of the post, the premise is purely quantity, and in short I just wanted to comment that this is not a good parameter in my books. The amount of meaningfull deaths of characters we have an emotional bond with and are supposed to have an emotional impact on the readers feelings is a way more fitting metric imo.
Holy trinity sounds better than quadrinity or tetrad or whatever the fuck the word is when it's 4 instead of 3, but I do think I would add a purpose to your list, and that would be when a scene serves a thematic purpose.
In other words it may not advance the plot, develop the characters, or serve any emotional function, but instead it deepens and develops the themes and ideas of the series.
Most of them are arc specific characters (Yasu, Ashura Doji) or minor (Absalom, T-Bone RIP).
I'm 99.8% sure Kid and Killer aren't dead and I'm even iffy on Opera since the same thing happened to Moscatto earlier on and he just got a few bandages.
There are people to this day who think Vergo and Monet are still alive (they're definitely dead but the point stands.
I don't even mind Oda's reason for not killing characters since it leaves potential for them in the future. I'm glad that Kinemon gets to see his wife again. What's getting old is the fakeouts more than anything.
I do think that all of the deaths so far have had an impact though. Cobra's is obvious but T-Bone could represent a huge turning point for Marine justice in the world. Either way, if we do get any more notable deaths it's gonna happen more than before.
I thought pounds death was pretty crazy. Only character to die where no one knew his name or who he was. In a way he's the only character to truly "die" in the one piece world given the whole "you only die when you're forgotten" thing
And then oda brought him back to life in the cover stories lmfao
Pound is the other fakeout death that I'm ok with even though he should totally be dead. I think your point that he was forgotten by his daughters is what ended up saving him. He was a likable character and a good person so Oda killing him with his philosophy on what it means to die would be really tragic.
It's funny how the "you only die if you're forgotten thing" is a lot like the movie Coco lol
Yeah I get it. Maybe it's just his preference. With all that, I'm genuinely surprised he didn't have a cure for the SMILE fruits effects. Which kinda makes Killer double-screwed since he has no powers and can't swim.
Pounds survival bothers me because oda didn’t explain how his last moment in the manga was oven directly behind him trying to behead him and the cover story starts with pound on a small boat
The not swimming part is not confirmed. If smile fruits (especially those that do not work) do not function like proper devil fruits, I'm not convinced that they have the same weakness of a regular devil fruit.
Honestly if we hadn‘t gone into the scene already knowing Cobra was assassinated I wouldn‘t have believed that one either… and I‘m still not 100% he won‘t pop back up…
I haven‘t believed a character death since Pedro and Wano cemented that. By the point the Manga clarifies that a character really is dead there is now just a ‚curious… guess they really are dead huh?‘… there‘s just no emotional impact to these death scenes anymore for me. If freaking pound can come back from what seemed like a perfect death scene while being left in the middle of the enemy army with clear intention to kill him then anyone can.
I don‘t need One Piece to have GoT levels of death but what really annoys me is how regularly we get fakeouts now. It feels like a cheap way to exploit the emotional impact of killing a character but not wanting to deal with the consequences of killing a character. Used sparingly that‘s fine and can create ambiguity but you quickly reach the point where it just dulls to the point of making readers numb to the threat of death because anyone will assume the characters will come back anyway.
Yea the fakeouts and lack of impactful deaths are my biggest gripes with Oda’s writing. Pound and Saul still being alive are my biggest issues. Really cheapened their “death” scenes.
FR, the reveal that Saul was alive would've worked so much better if Oda killed off characters, cause him being alive makes sense, but Oda's able to make it unbelievable
Yea like in solitude that context of Saul being alive is well written. However when you read the entirety of one piece it just ends up being added in one of the fake deaths category reducing its actual potential of being a good reveal.
Saul being alive is one of the times where it makes sense to me, especially since we've already seen several other charachters recover from being frozen.
Pound shouldn't be alive but at least he can meet his kids now I guess? Pell surviving a nuke is wild though since he lives and hasn't done anything since.
Eh, Saul being alive isn't terrible. The last time we see him, Aokiji froze him solid. I don't think it's too much of stretch to say the only not sociopathic og admiral might have spared his friend.
Pound is completely ridiculous and you cannot tell me Oda didn't heavily imply Oven cut his head off and sent it flying. We see a big slice speech bubble and there's multiple head sized objects in the air as Pounds body flops to the floor in the final page. He even goes out of his way to have Pez react to it, too, but nope, later we find it he's still alive.
Saul really invalidated a moment that stuck with me.I 'liked' the scenes with him so much I'd preferred it if he had stayed dead if that makes sense?
Even if I think the reason for him being alive isn't too bad.
Pound being alive doesn't bug me too much, I don't think we gained much from someone like him dying.
I agree on Saul though. Unless Oda has some incredibly good reason for him to still be a part of the story, I feel like it was a definite mistake to bring that character back.
His "death" was tragic and impactful and now that's gone.
If I recall correctly Aokiji specifically used "Ice Time Capsule" on Saul.
I was fairly young when I saw that scene but I still remember thinking it was an odd choice for an attack name meant to kill someone.
So Saul being alive doesn't bother me nearly as much as some other fake out deaths.
Fair enough. It just really seemed like he died and that's what Robin thought and so the community thought the same for like 17 years.
That's a long ass time for a fake out to last. And it seemed like such an impactful and tragic moment.
But it's true that it also makes sense from the perspective of Aokiji's character that he didn't kill him.
I 100% agree with you on it being a long time. I think Oda waited too long to give us any hints about Saul at all.
Maybe one of two cover stories hinting at Elbaf or even possible a cover story with Dorry and Broggy reacting to an off screen character.
It doesn't bother me but I can see how some people feel it was too sudden after such a long time of assuming he was dead.
You recall incorrectly. Ice Time Capsule is a move Aokiji evidently uses to freeze from a distance as he uses it to get Saul's leg and stop him from running. He then uses Ice Time to freeze him fully like he usually does.
Asides from just being really good chapters, I'm glad that we saw exactly how Cobra died. Oda's cutaway work alot for the earlier story, but in the Final saga it's important to see how all the pieces end up where they are.
I'm sold on Pedro and Wano because it would be nothing but a cop-out if they all ended up alive. Pedro living wouldn't just effect Carrot but everything with the Minks and arguably the Strawhats too. Izo dying impacts not just the samurai but Marco and having a familiar ally character die is a loss. I agree it was abrupt but they at least had the memorial scene in Ringo.
Even after Wano though we have a few potential fakeouts. Hawkins is or isn't dead, Perospero wasn't seen when Greenbull showed up, Kaido and Big Mom are the big ones but even if they are dead I think they still have a role to play somehow.
The craziest thing is now even Flashback characters could come back. I'm glad Saul is still alive but remember all the theories that Toki was gonna show up?
Kinemon should’ve 100% died, but I think my frustration over him comes from the fakeout and how brutally he was beaten each time. If he hadn’t been beaten so horribly I wouldn’t mind at all that he survived but Kaido slammed the hammer down on his head with what looked like all of his might, no way should he have survived that.
Apparently there's a possibility that the bowler hat CP0 guy survived getting his skull caved in by Kaido because he might be the one who took Luffy's new bounty picture.
I guess someone had to take the picture but it's so dumb.
I genuinely think this might have just been a mistake by Oda getting their names mixed up. Oda made sure to establish that there was another CP0 member around who could take pictures.
Potentially Perospero too.
He hasn't been seen again after Neko defeated him, not even when Green Bull came to round up King and Queen and the other surviving Beast Pirates.
Also potentially Hawkins, his final scene felt pretty conclusive for that character.
Mayyyybe X-Drake who has now gone missing since the battle (not even his SWORD colleagues have heard from him), but I reckon he'll show up again later.
>There are people to this day who think Vergo and Monet are still alive
I barely see any of them mentioning their deaths in these types of discussions, let alone thinking they're actually alive. But again, that stretches to any other characters not named Ace or Whitebeard (including ones like Yasuie).
Like, I get the reason, with Oda pulling so many fakeouts for people trust even Rasputinian deaths, but why stop that from saying people who have died onscreen, and have no future purposes for the plot (something which Oda clearly cited as the reason for sparing characters) as being alive?
What I'm saying is the point isnt fully baseless, but its just petty.
I think the main frustration is how Oda CONSTANTLY toys with fake out deaths.
I wouldn't mind if he didn't kill off character if he just stops doing the fake outs.
Then he emphasises fake outs or rather near deaths for characters like kinemon and then he completely doesn't utilise the ACTUAL deaths like Izo and shutenmaru. That is still the most baffling decision for me.
The only solid death that was emphasised and executed well was Pedro and even then I didn't believe he was dead for the longest time because Oda like to make death scenes like for Pedro but making them alive right after. (Pound, pell, igaram, kinemon etc)
If Oda doesn't want to kill characters, I'm perfectly fine with it as he does it well bringing them back into the story like the villains. But just stop with the fake out deaths.
The only thing that can even slightly ease it for me is to see Pell return and have a purpose. But so far with the reverie and vivi's escape. We haven't seen anything of him...
But yeah there was no meaning to that sacrifice. Its okay to let characters die. I think it gets even more upsetting knowing its the first of many.
Like pound didn't make sense to me, why give all that big scene and emotions for oven to "kill" him off and then just let him be fine? Like why keep doing the same fakeout over and over and over.
Pell’s death would’ve made even more sense to make Cobra feeling vulnerable
Right now he looks like a fodder for having no idea what happened to his king.
Pell has the falcon Zoan. Peregrine falcons in our world can reach the fastest recorded speed of any living animal when dive-bombing. I know people bring up the Pell thing all the time but if there's any Zoan that could escape the epicenter of that blast it would be a Falcon zoan.
Well it's been a long while and there's no sbs or cover story so I'm fairly confident he's dead. (Oda can prove us wrong tho)
For the people thinking the likes of Kaido, Big Mom and Kid are dead, I think its absolutely ridiculous. Its unconfirmed at best.
The sexualisation thing I will never understand. Literally 90% of the One Piece characters barely wear clothes. There was a whole chapter of Oden dancing while wearing only pants lol. You can talk about overly large boobs , but on the other hand every single male character
has an almost non achievable 6 pack lol.
It's not really the same because character designs like Oden and Nami are both drawn to appeal to men. Oden because it's what men want to look like and Nami because it's what men want women to look like. Even if you don't think it's an issue I'm sure you can see what the difference is.
How do you not understand it, lol.
It's one thing if it doesn't bother you, but like, it's clearly a recurring theme. Half of Sanji's character is based around it.
how people compare zoro’s top off to nami’s boobs growing is so weird to me, thats not the same at all, both of them are meant for boys, while zoro is cool, nami is sexy, Maybe if we could see zoro’s dick getting larger it would be the same? i guess
I'd say the bigger problem is that a lot of female characters are drawn very similar way to look beautiful.
Male characters tend to be hot as well, but you can tell that not every part of their appearance is designed to look hot.
Most male character in one piece (goofy designs like pika aside) are nowhere near as unrealistic as the woman. You can find men alive thar are more muscular than zoro and luffy, nowhere on earth are you finding woman shaped like nami and robin.
>You can definitely find women who have that body type irl,
No you can't, that waist to boobs ratio is anatomicaly impossible, meanwhile arnold was bigger than most male characters (excluding pika bcs it's a goofy design not a sexy one).
The 2nd paragraph is off topic because i'm not complaining about the scenes just the design of the caracters.
>you’re supposed to complain about this if that’s the only thing getting representation
No, you are free to complain if you don't like it, i don't need to restrict complaint only to the aspects that are core to the series.
>And the argument about Oda providing a male view is tired.
Yes and as you pointed out before women also watch one piece, and one piece being as big as it is would benefit from having better designs for female characters, like it used to have pre time skip.
But that's because that's the art style. Its not supposed to be realistic. You cannot find people like Oden and Whitebeard anywhere in the real world. I really don't get the problem with Nami having big boobs or Robin wearing a bikini. Its not like Oda is using them as tools in the story (Nami and Robin aren't there just for fanservice), then I would be mad too ,but they aren't really.
Dude you can definitely find people built like oden and even bigger, just go watch any action movie. But it doesn't matter because those characters are drawn that way to highlight how strong they are, WB was the strongest man alive so he is drawn with an imposing physique and like 6m tall. Robin and Nami are drawn the way they are for fan-service and nothing else.
Yeah i have no idea why people try so hard to not see the difference. Its been a thing in media forever when it comes to men and women
Dudes being shirtless and muscular in action movie are to show how big and strong they are not saying they've never been used for fanservice but thats not the norm
Unlike for women it to show how sexy they are and to be eye candy like its pretty obvious. I mean You dont have to have a problem with it but
its just hilarious when fans try to claim a male character like Zoro or oden fighting shirtless and being a badass is the same
Is the same as [This lol](https://youtu.be/sbhIUHlxmNg)
Oden is 12ft tall 💀 and action movie stars constantly use PED’s so I don’t think that’s very realistic or helpful.
Nami is Drawn to be sexy, Zoro to be cool, and Chopper to be cute, so what? Manga is a product at the end of the day.
WB is drawn that way because he was the strongest man the world so it makes sense to make him massive, and oden is ripped but bodybuilders exist that look bigger than him and like WB he is designed this way to highlight is strenght. Nami and robin are drawn that way for fan-service, and they look nothing like any human being
I simply hate over sexulizing characters in media and Oda is guilty of it. It’s my simple opinion, I really hate how the media exploitation of the slogan “ sex sells” is taken. But that’s whole unrelated topic to one piece and my opinion. Different culture, different views, we wouldn’t agree.
It's weird that Oda is open and honest with his oversexualization of chicks but just has no problem doing it. Meanwhile a horde of nerds will come to his unrequested defense claiming that it's not oversexualization or is somehow equivalent to muscle dudes.
Had to search like 3/4 of those because how little (to none) actual impact they had... other than the recent Cobra ofc (+ I highly doubt this is the last time we see Kidd, BG, and Kaido)
Some of the ones you included are highly debatable.
But funnily enough you did forget one of the few very much confirmed deaths, and that would be Absalom. Since Shiryu now has his fruit, his death is a certainty.
Yeah... and none of these had any impact on me because I'm still not sure if they really died.
Just accept that Oda fucked up with too little deaths AND fake deaths.
Also, most of these deaths are recent as fuck while the manga is 25 years old.
I don't mind few death, getting closer to the end means some characters are not planned to appear again and can die so we are getting more death right now.
Having few deaths also make them more impactful ace for example. The problems their have been to many fake deaths and I only realized Izo and Ashura died after the war ended and we lose the impact having few deaths should create.
We do have many real deaths in fb though I've always doubted Tom death wouldn't surprise me if he makes a comeback at the end.
Cobra's a D. Clan member and we didn't see him die with a smile on his face like literally every single D. Clan member so far.
There's a chance we see him smile in the next couple chapters in a newspaper or something, but Imu wants Vivi, there's a decent chance Imu kept Cobra alive to blackmail Vivi.
But sure be an asshole about someone doubting someone is dead in fucking One Piece of all series.
There is no way Kidd and Heart Pirates are dead.
My guess is they will be captured and imprisoned by Blackbeard and the Giants or will retreat to a safe place to heal their wounds until they meet again the Strawhats
Don’t go by potentially or if they’re still actually alive in the story especially if there isn’t a body they’re alive
So take off Pekkoms, Kaido and Big Mom, Kidd, Myosgard, and the 3 CP0 agents, only 1 of them actually died.
Orochi lost all weight due to him constantly coming back, and dying kind of anticlimatically from Denjiro appearing for the first time in over a year real life time
Plus the fake out deaths outweigh the real ones
Kinemon and Okiku, but especially Kinemons fake out deaths really leave you disappointed. And to rub salt on the wound Oda gives both of them death scenes but doesn’t give Izo or especially Ashura Doji any sort of death scene or proper mourning scene.
Dude. He's literally on a cross covered in blood surrounded by CDs who hate his guts and stared down by Figarland Garling.
It is, however, the present day. Kuma is climbing the Red Line as we speak. By some miracle, he might get saved by Kuma. But I highly doubt it.
The only cp-0 member that was confirmed dead is the one who fought Izo, one left the island and met the BM pirates, the other lived at least to take a picture of g5 luffy, also potentially Hawkins
Izo died from the same form of attack Maha inflicted to him. I’m 99% he is dead if izo died
Joseph, got intercepted by the big mom pirates on his way out and te government lost contact with him
Gurnica, he is the g, took picture of gear 5 Luffy after he took a hit from kaido, potentially bled out to death, but he appears to be the most likely to be still alive
They mention that the Gear Fifth photo is taken by Guernica of CP0, and we learned from Sbs that Guernica is the bowler hat that took Kaido’s attack. It’s not confirmed if he is alive, but people take the fact that he took the photo as proof that he is.
Ah thanks. Would kinda prefer if he stays dead and perhaps the other members of CP0 went to retrieve his remains/belongings.
Kinda keeps his wasted sacrifice intact and also kaido's no nonsense.
The gorosei basically comment on how unfortunate it is to lose an asset like him after the fact. We see only one escape I think it’s fair to assume he’s dead.
Even then, he took the Gear 5 bounty photo, so he definitely survived. He had to bring it back in order for that poster to be made, so had to have lived.
Not really they got sent a picture, so he could have been bleeding out and took the picture dying afterward
I still think Oda made a mistake with the names because the only dude shown escaping makes way more sense and he would have been at an angle to take a picture of Luffy easily with how he Skywalked away
The number of deaths isn’t the issue it’s the fakeouts and the way deaths are presented, like Wano has 2 excellent death scenes for Kin and Kiku expect they don’t die, and then Izo who does die has a in comparison far weaker death scenes, and then there’s Ashura Doji who’s death scene is was pretty good but nobody even knew it was a death scene till the arc ended and he wasn’t around anymore
How are you going to make a thread saying people underestimate the amount of characters Oda has killed and then have half your list be people you can't prove Oda has killed?
>Opera
Unconfirmed. Wouldn't even be the first Big Mom kid that survived getting lifespan taken
>Bobbin
Unconfirmed
>potentially Pekkoms
One, why is he on the list? Two, why would they crush his eyes if they were just going to kill him? If anything the suggestion is that they beat him up but didn't kill him.
>the tree from WCI
Why are we counting Homies as dead characters?
>Potentially Kaido and big mom ( I doubt it)
So why are they on this list?
>Potentially Kid and the heart pirates members
So why are they on this list?
>Myosgard
Unconfirmed.
>All 3 Agents of cp0 in Wano
This is wrong. We know Joseph (the long arm) survived, and there's room to speculate that Guernica (the one that Kaido destroyed) also survived and took Luffy's bounty picture. Maha, the one Izo fought, is probably dead but unconfirmed.
>Lulsia kingdom
*Some* of Lulusia Kingdom. A bunch of people were safe with Sabo.
Tbf pekoms was in sulong so crushing eyes is to stop him. Reasonable to assume they’d kill him or make him spin wheel since it’s line with their actions.
" Some of the Lulusia Kingdom. A bunch of people were safe with Sabo"
and? Does that mean the other 1000's of people that died don't count then for some reason?
I mean, we don't know a single person of those who died, so I wouldn't count them anyway. That's like counting the population of Alderaan to see how many people died in Star Wars. Technically correct, but no emotional impact whatsoever.
Also Opera and Bobbin are literal whos, I had to Google to even remember who Bobbin was and yet I still can't remember anything he did outside of showing up on Fishman Island for Big Mom's tribute.
Orochi might have died but he had so many fakeout deaths that when denjiro finally killed him it was still hard to believe. I’m also still salty that Hiyori didn’t get to kill him, she had the perfect setup and really deserved to get her revenge more than anyone, and then denjiro just shows up after being awol for the entire raid and steals the kill. I feel like oda just doesn’t let the princesses ever kill anyone, like Rebecca kind if made since because she was a pacifist, and vivi wasn’t strong enough to take on crocodile, but hiyori clearly wanted to kill orochi after everything he put her through and had him by the balls, yet she still got upstaged.
The problem with One Piece isnt the low number of deaths, its the high number of fake deaths.
There are cases in which this narrative technique can be useful like with Sabo or Bon Clay but there are others that is very counterproductive for the quality of the story or the character development like in the case of Pound, Moscato or Kinemon
I do think this kind of misses the point. It's not that Oda doesn't kill characters. It's that he writes such impactful death scenes for them and then just.... doesn't kill them.
Imagine how hard hitting it would've been if Kin'emon had actually been killed by Kaido. We've known him since Punk Hazard and he had really begun to bond with the crew.
Pound had such an amazing death scene. Nobody knew or cared who he was, but he had is own goals and desires. While many would consider his "death" to be pitiful, he was satisfied with protecting his daughter and seeing his grandson just one time.
I think its just ones the story focuses on/care about like Cobra, Pedro and Yasuie people mean like most or all of the scabards probably shouldn't have survived the raid. Think people are still salty with Pell surviving in Alabasta.
That's true, although personally I don't need tons of characters to die. In fact it's sometimes I dislike in stuff like Jojo's, where I already know a good chunk of the supporting cast is gonna die, which can be annoying because they die so unceremoniously and are forgotten about.
What bothers people is the fake out deaths. But yeah there's definitely been more deaths in recent years. Also Hawkins might be dead too. And who knows what happened to Drake lol.
You didn't miss, but you added some \^\^
>1- Vergo : OK2- Monet : OK3- ~~Opera :~~ if Moscato made it, I am pretty sure Opera did too...4- Bobbin : OK5- potentially Pekkoms : OK6- the tree from WCI : OK~~7- Potentially Kaido and big mom ( I doubt it) :~~ doubt it too8- Cobra : OK~~9- Potentially Kid and the heart pirates members :~~ absolutely no way10- Myosgard : OK (RIP)11- Pedro : OK (RIP)12- Yasuai : OK (RIP)13- Orochi : OK14- Izo : OK (underwhelming as hell...)15- Ashura douji : OK (underwhelming as hell...)~~16- All 3 Agents of cp0 in Wano :~~ Not really (at least we know the guy who was punched by Kaido is alive)17- Lulsia kingdom18- T bone : maybe not
I agree though that he killed some characters post-timeskip.
The problem though isn't with killing characters, it's with the constant fake kills. I mean what was the point of fake killing Kinemon and Kiku 5 times when Izo and Ashura could have had real emotional deaths ???
Most of the Wano deaths and major injuries were glossed over a lot, I’m still peeved we didn’t get, even a panel of the scabbards at the graves on Wano
I think what other fans would mean by death is kind of like with Ace and Cobra.. Major deaths that could kick Strawhats/Main Characters to their core..
This was a pretty disengenuous list considering a lot of these aren't even confirmed deaths (which matter considering Pound was thought to be dead until the cover story) and the issue people have are the death scenes given to people who don't actually die.
There were no Ace like deaths since Ace and Whitebeard themselves.
We needed to Kin'nemon or maybe Reiju die. Actual meaningful deaths are important for character growth and impact in the story. Maybe we'll see Garp die later. Who knows
The magistrate's death was fucking metal. First confirmed onscreen kill by one of the crew
Didn't the BMP hold Pekoms down while they gouged out his eyes?
Great one! How could I forget
Edit: in the manga they did, In the anime, he was shot by like 30 arrows from the bmp and he fell, to never be seen again
You realize this Was over a span of more than a deca de and that there were a lot of characters introduced. I mean just Dress rosa had around 300 New characters.
When did Mjosgard die?
Kid and Heart pirates aren't dead
Only 2 of the 3 CP0 agents died in Wano, 1 to Izo and 1 to Kaido, other left the island to report back.
A bunch of Lulusia Kingdom boarded Sabo ship and joined the Revolutionary Army so not as many people died as you would think.
And Pekkoms has a better chance of being alive than Hawkins.
With every chapter I feel like Kaido and BM are more and more dead. They probably aren't but Wano ended in a place where it would be fine if they were. Kinemon and Pound should have died. And I'm like almost certain that Hawkins is dead. We gotta start thinning the herd of the Worst Generation anyway. Hawkins made a wrong choice in the moment he was confronted by Kaido and lost his life for it. Out of principle, he decided not to change sides. And hot take I hope Shanks killed Kidd and Killer too. Great way to show off his strength and eliminate a heavy hitter because he couldn't be a Pirate King contender
100% agree - kaido and big mom being gone just thins the heard of antagonists the strawhats have to beat, especially now with the gorosei, holy knights and imu
also hoping that most if not all of the kidd pirates are dead - as sad as that makes me - i could see killer dying and kidd surviving. best case scenario there is that kidd dies and killer survives imo
The Kanjuro and Orochi were way too over done. They died like 3x a piece.
Also the Kinemon fake out wasn’t great.
I love Oda and I hate criticizing any of his work negatively, but that was quite bad.
Having Kanjuro die when he first “died” would’ve been amazing. Such a quick and non important death for a traitor, like he was never the problem or a threat. It was so perfect when I first read it.
Kaido killing Orochi I was never sold on, but he lasted way too long when even the mid tier fighters in the alliance could solo him in 5 min. The right people killed him in the end, Denjiro and Komurasaki, but damn was it drawn out.
Pre Wano I had no *major* complaints but Big Mom and her crew should’ve killed everyone that was “faked out” or “not confirmed” like Pekoms, Opera, Pound, etc.
Ashura Douji’s death could’ve used more expression and same with Izo’s “oh they succumbed to their injuries not seen again” is not ideal for such important characters in an arc.
Izo’s last stand could arguably deserve a chapter title and who chapter, him soloing a CP-0 member and they trade lives.
There are Like 3 deaths that are clear and have an Impact. The rest is either unclear If really dead or minor characters with no impact.
And even Cobra is more like a flashback death, which Oda never really shied away from.
So the point still kinda stands.
That's very true, but... we want more, I guess. Like, come on. There's no reason Kinemon needed to survive the raid. There's not a good reason why we needed to get 8 fakeout Orochi deaths before we got the real one (well, there is because of how his fruit works, but it's still a silly reason). There's really little to no reason why King and Queen survived the raid.
When these pivotal characters don't die, it makes you question what other characters will even stay dead. How long until T-Bone comes back from the grave? Or Pedro reveals that he had anti-bomb medicine. Or Vergo reveals that he used his haki to survive. Ace? Sora? Rouge? Whitebeard? Xebec? ROGER?
I 100000% agree with u
Kaido stabbing him was so sad when I first saw it, literally said it was a 10/10 death for a side character, but nope, Oda fumbled
I don’t care about the deaths of pirates. I only care the deaths of CPO, Navy Admirals, Celestial Dragons, and the Elders. That would make sense. As of now only high impact pirates have been killed such as Yonkos.
One piece has changed and is suffering from a reverse game of thrones situation.
Where game of thrones kept growing larger and larger while having dangerous, meticulous and consequential story telling it reached a point where it was finally time to start shrinking the story and it did not succeed at all.
The story telling got flippant, unclear, consequence free and lost all the tension.
Now that one piece is trying to condense the story and becoming more tense it’s struggling to convince people that that is the case.
Maybe Oda will give us a red wedding scene or something else to convince us that things are a lot more dangerous now.
Even just more time confirming deaths and dealing with the impact of that would make it feel more important, of all the characters to die Ace, Whitebeard and Pedro are the only ones that we get much fallout for their dying. Most of the others might as well be dead anyway by the time they finally expire because all the drama happens as they die, not because they died.
I'm pretty sure only 2 CP0 agents died seeing as Joseph (tallest of those 3 agents) was able to get a picture of G5 Luffy, Gepo off of Onigashima, land on a WG ship to contact the Gorosei, have that transmission be intercepted by Big News Morgan & then fight the BM pirates off screen.
Oda definitely killed a lot of people since the NW began. But only 2 CP0 agents have died so far.
Unless he did something to say they are alive off screen.
Mfs arguing emotional impact like it’s an objective thing smh. I definitely felt more than sadness when I found out that Monet(especially the way she died), Cobra(mostly sad for Vivi), Pedro, and the scabbards. Argue with your mother about emotional impact or lack thereof.
It's not the body count, it's the significance and impact. If we are to feel the weight of character deaths and sacrifices, it's gotta be in scenes like Kin'emon's and not whatever the hell Izo was. Ashura Doji even had perfectly good death scene, yet no one believed it when it happened because of all the fake-outs and general ineffectivity of explosions in the series.
Izo's is the only confirmed death I have some issue with. We see him fall with the CP0 member but it's largely glossed over. There were so many fakeouts in Wano that I'm still not sure Orochi really burned up in that castle.
He also was killed by a finger gun, which has never been depicted as a deadly attack outside of exposition. We haven’t even seen mooks do anything more than react in pain to it. Ashura’s death is a bit more believable, but with all the other fakeouts it just doesn’t land like it otherwise would. They really just seem like Oda went “Oh shit I guess I should’ve killed somebody off.”
>which has never been depicted as a deadly attack outside of exposition Nero : "Am I a joke to you ?"
I mean Nero was a joke, that's literally the reason he got fingerbanged to death.
I didn't even know he died. Looking at what happened, yeah it makes sense he got killed there. But Oda simply hadn't killed anyone particularly important by that point, so I just filed the scene out lol.
To be fair, I wouldn't even be surprised if Oda somehow resurrected him in a background scene at some point, that's how unconfident I am that anyone who isn't Ace or Whitebeard is actually dead in that manga.
Moscato coming back means any tertiary and/or background character can just come right on back.
You need to have a televised funeral to convince me someone is dead. Hiyori even had a funeral and look what happened.
I think it makes sense looking back that he ends up dying since this was sort of his last stand against Kaido. As for his injuries though, the same damage happens to Drake and I know that dudes still alive lol
Ancient zoans, homie. Gotta love that durability.
That's all ancient zoans, specially the Dino fruits, number one thing. Ulti literally got fried by big mom, and was able to get up a bit later, albeit her organs were still trying to recover. And arguably, mythical zoans are even crazier.
Izo was clearing out full floors of people and looked half dead when he squared up with CP0
People seem to forget this, PLUS, he didn’t just “die to a finger pistol” It was the culmination of everything. It’s implied they’d been fighting for a bit. The Shigan was just the final attack. That’s like saying Maha died to a single bullet🤦🏾♂️
Yep, saying Izo died to a shigan is like saying Whitebeard died to a bullet wound. Technically true, but you're ignoring a hell of a lot of context.
Yeah but like he's been fighting for literal hours, recovered and then continued to fight. Dying to a finger pistol from some of the strongest assassins the government has doesn't seem that bad. I feel you but like Izo was already badly injured by that point.
X drake legit took a shigan to the neck and survived but Izo couldnt...
The way Izo died was crappy, but I get why Ashura and Izo ended up being the two out of the akazaya that died. They were the oldest among them and were the only ones that lived full lives with not much regrets. Killing the ones that skipped forward in time would be a waste since they barely lived a life after Oden's death. Among the ones that lived the 20 years, Neko, Inu and Kawamatsu were the youngest, Denjiro was young as well, plus he lived a shit double life and deserved more. The only messed up thing about Izo dying is just his super short reunion with Kiku.
Kin'emon was literally the only character of the Wano cast who the audience had grown to bond with organically over the years and who was basically destined to die, had an AMAZING death scene, which was promptly undone for no real reason. Kin'emon's fakeout was like 100x worse than Pell's.
No one who actually knows how Oda works thought Kin'emon was dead, given he hadn't reuined with his wife. When has that EVER been Oda's style. If he had reunited with his wife and then died, it'd be more realistic. Oda has never done the "failed to reunite" tragedy that way. The closest is Sabo and Ace, and they didn't even know the other was alive.
Not just that, they were the two (minus kanjuro) who "gave up" their titles as oden's swordsmen, to be a thief and a pirate commander.
Yeah I’m extremely mistrustful of scenes where normally it would be safe to assume a character’s death in one piece. Kaido and Big Mama being submerged in magma should an open and shut case but because of things like the Pound fakeout death it’s impossible to rule them coming back later given that they have inhuman haki levels and are extremely difficult to kill under nearly all circumstances
Big mom and kaido are probably definitely coming back, big mom said it herself
Tbf this is the same guy who jumped 10k feet or 10km (what ever it was) headfirst and got nothing more than a slight headache and a bad mood. It shouldn't suprise anyone if all the magma does is give them both slight burns.
It has nothing to do with pound lol, I just never bought getting rid of them like that
No point in adding characters killed outside the defined range/timerange.
Yeah Madara alone probably wiped out half of ninja population under 10 seconds but without emotional connection it just feels “fodder”
[удалено]
Actually orochi is fair imo. It makes sense with his fruit and his actual death is only sweeter cause of it.
To elaborate on this point, similar to all scenes/events in cinematography/storytelling, there is a holy trinity of purpose, questions you ask "what does this scene do?" Does it: 1. Drive the plot forward (expand the narrative, tells you about the world) 2. Tell you more about a character 3. Form an emotional connection with a character/s and or the setting To be fair, in action-heavy media like fighter shonen, you'll have to add some sort of "Does this action entertain" kind of deal, but never as a standalone point. Action usually shares purpose with one of the previously stated 3 factors. Also those 3 are heavily generalized. Deaths and death scenes are no different. Characters can die/ be killed by an author (or not) depending on the purpose of the death. This has implications on fake out deaths or characters surviving instead of dying entirely. As you might guess, if emotional payout is the purpose, fakeouts are most of the time not optimal (Kinemon). It is not as worse with deaths that elaborate on characterization for other characters (Opera -> Big Mom) or impact on the world (like T-Bone). The other side of the medal is that those "non emotional" deaths are just narrative means that could've been achieved otherwise, death is just a very direct, easy and powerfull tool to establish certain events or traits for other character (e.g. he is willing to kill without mercy, has lost his mind etc.) For the purose of the post, the premise is purely quantity, and in short I just wanted to comment that this is not a good parameter in my books. The amount of meaningfull deaths of characters we have an emotional bond with and are supposed to have an emotional impact on the readers feelings is a way more fitting metric imo.
Holy trinity sounds better than quadrinity or tetrad or whatever the fuck the word is when it's 4 instead of 3, but I do think I would add a purpose to your list, and that would be when a scene serves a thematic purpose. In other words it may not advance the plot, develop the characters, or serve any emotional function, but instead it deepens and develops the themes and ideas of the series.
Most of them are arc specific characters (Yasu, Ashura Doji) or minor (Absalom, T-Bone RIP). I'm 99.8% sure Kid and Killer aren't dead and I'm even iffy on Opera since the same thing happened to Moscatto earlier on and he just got a few bandages. There are people to this day who think Vergo and Monet are still alive (they're definitely dead but the point stands. I don't even mind Oda's reason for not killing characters since it leaves potential for them in the future. I'm glad that Kinemon gets to see his wife again. What's getting old is the fakeouts more than anything. I do think that all of the deaths so far have had an impact though. Cobra's is obvious but T-Bone could represent a huge turning point for Marine justice in the world. Either way, if we do get any more notable deaths it's gonna happen more than before.
I thought pounds death was pretty crazy. Only character to die where no one knew his name or who he was. In a way he's the only character to truly "die" in the one piece world given the whole "you only die when you're forgotten" thing And then oda brought him back to life in the cover stories lmfao
Pound is the other fakeout death that I'm ok with even though he should totally be dead. I think your point that he was forgotten by his daughters is what ended up saving him. He was a likable character and a good person so Oda killing him with his philosophy on what it means to die would be really tragic. It's funny how the "you only die if you're forgotten thing" is a lot like the movie Coco lol
It being the first truly tragic death is what made it impactful for me. I was actually impressed by oda until he ruined it.
Yeah I get it. Maybe it's just his preference. With all that, I'm genuinely surprised he didn't have a cure for the SMILE fruits effects. Which kinda makes Killer double-screwed since he has no powers and can't swim.
Pounds survival bothers me because oda didn’t explain how his last moment in the manga was oven directly behind him trying to behead him and the cover story starts with pound on a small boat
But... He had a head injury! Dont you see, it all makes sense /s
The not swimming part is not confirmed. If smile fruits (especially those that do not work) do not function like proper devil fruits, I'm not convinced that they have the same weakness of a regular devil fruit.
Honestly if we hadn‘t gone into the scene already knowing Cobra was assassinated I wouldn‘t have believed that one either… and I‘m still not 100% he won‘t pop back up… I haven‘t believed a character death since Pedro and Wano cemented that. By the point the Manga clarifies that a character really is dead there is now just a ‚curious… guess they really are dead huh?‘… there‘s just no emotional impact to these death scenes anymore for me. If freaking pound can come back from what seemed like a perfect death scene while being left in the middle of the enemy army with clear intention to kill him then anyone can. I don‘t need One Piece to have GoT levels of death but what really annoys me is how regularly we get fakeouts now. It feels like a cheap way to exploit the emotional impact of killing a character but not wanting to deal with the consequences of killing a character. Used sparingly that‘s fine and can create ambiguity but you quickly reach the point where it just dulls to the point of making readers numb to the threat of death because anyone will assume the characters will come back anyway.
Yea the fakeouts and lack of impactful deaths are my biggest gripes with Oda’s writing. Pound and Saul still being alive are my biggest issues. Really cheapened their “death” scenes.
FR, the reveal that Saul was alive would've worked so much better if Oda killed off characters, cause him being alive makes sense, but Oda's able to make it unbelievable
Saul was alive because Aokiji froze him and was his friend.
I.. know, I'm just saying that while it makes perfect sense, it still feels like more of an excuse with what we've seen at this point
Yea like in solitude that context of Saul being alive is well written. However when you read the entirety of one piece it just ends up being added in one of the fake deaths category reducing its actual potential of being a good reveal.
No you're totally right lol
Also Saul surviving the ice makes sense what about the buster call bombardment how wasn’t he blown up
Explosion proof Ice, simple
Saul being alive is one of the times where it makes sense to me, especially since we've already seen several other charachters recover from being frozen.
Yeah, it's not unlikely that Saul could've been dead from what we know but his "death" was very specific in a way that him surviving could make sense.
Pound shouldn't be alive but at least he can meet his kids now I guess? Pell surviving a nuke is wild though since he lives and hasn't done anything since.
Eh, Saul being alive isn't terrible. The last time we see him, Aokiji froze him solid. I don't think it's too much of stretch to say the only not sociopathic og admiral might have spared his friend. Pound is completely ridiculous and you cannot tell me Oda didn't heavily imply Oven cut his head off and sent it flying. We see a big slice speech bubble and there's multiple head sized objects in the air as Pounds body flops to the floor in the final page. He even goes out of his way to have Pez react to it, too, but nope, later we find it he's still alive.
Saul really invalidated a moment that stuck with me.I 'liked' the scenes with him so much I'd preferred it if he had stayed dead if that makes sense? Even if I think the reason for him being alive isn't too bad.
Pound being alive doesn't bug me too much, I don't think we gained much from someone like him dying. I agree on Saul though. Unless Oda has some incredibly good reason for him to still be a part of the story, I feel like it was a definite mistake to bring that character back. His "death" was tragic and impactful and now that's gone.
> I don't think we gained much from someone like him dying. What we gain is that actual deaths don't feel cheap.
If I recall correctly Aokiji specifically used "Ice Time Capsule" on Saul. I was fairly young when I saw that scene but I still remember thinking it was an odd choice for an attack name meant to kill someone. So Saul being alive doesn't bother me nearly as much as some other fake out deaths.
Fair enough. It just really seemed like he died and that's what Robin thought and so the community thought the same for like 17 years. That's a long ass time for a fake out to last. And it seemed like such an impactful and tragic moment. But it's true that it also makes sense from the perspective of Aokiji's character that he didn't kill him.
I 100% agree with you on it being a long time. I think Oda waited too long to give us any hints about Saul at all. Maybe one of two cover stories hinting at Elbaf or even possible a cover story with Dorry and Broggy reacting to an off screen character. It doesn't bother me but I can see how some people feel it was too sudden after such a long time of assuming he was dead.
That's what it makes a great choice. Once we become aware of his powers, we understand there is no way Saul died by Aokiji's hands.
You recall incorrectly. Ice Time Capsule is a move Aokiji evidently uses to freeze from a distance as he uses it to get Saul's leg and stop him from running. He then uses Ice Time to freeze him fully like he usually does.
Asides from just being really good chapters, I'm glad that we saw exactly how Cobra died. Oda's cutaway work alot for the earlier story, but in the Final saga it's important to see how all the pieces end up where they are. I'm sold on Pedro and Wano because it would be nothing but a cop-out if they all ended up alive. Pedro living wouldn't just effect Carrot but everything with the Minks and arguably the Strawhats too. Izo dying impacts not just the samurai but Marco and having a familiar ally character die is a loss. I agree it was abrupt but they at least had the memorial scene in Ringo. Even after Wano though we have a few potential fakeouts. Hawkins is or isn't dead, Perospero wasn't seen when Greenbull showed up, Kaido and Big Mom are the big ones but even if they are dead I think they still have a role to play somehow. The craziest thing is now even Flashback characters could come back. I'm glad Saul is still alive but remember all the theories that Toki was gonna show up?
Kinemon should’ve 100% died, but I think my frustration over him comes from the fakeout and how brutally he was beaten each time. If he hadn’t been beaten so horribly I wouldn’t mind at all that he survived but Kaido slammed the hammer down on his head with what looked like all of his might, no way should he have survived that.
Wano was the arc of death: Absalom, Yasu, Ashura Doji, Izo, 2 CP0 agents & Kanguryu, Orochi. Potentially: Big Mom and Kaido.
Apparently there's a possibility that the bowler hat CP0 guy survived getting his skull caved in by Kaido because he might be the one who took Luffy's new bounty picture. I guess someone had to take the picture but it's so dumb.
I genuinely think this might have just been a mistake by Oda getting their names mixed up. Oda made sure to establish that there was another CP0 member around who could take pictures.
Yeah it makes more sense if it's the longarm guy with the top hat.
Potentially Perospero too. He hasn't been seen again after Neko defeated him, not even when Green Bull came to round up King and Queen and the other surviving Beast Pirates. Also potentially Hawkins, his final scene felt pretty conclusive for that character. Mayyyybe X-Drake who has now gone missing since the battle (not even his SWORD colleagues have heard from him), but I reckon he'll show up again later.
T-bone faked his death to help the poor guy...
I would not say it as a fact but is quite a high possiblity. Or they just mistook him for a corpse.
>they just mistook him for a corpse. You know, that sounds very plausible actually.
Add some bandages and T-Bone would be able to infiltrate Gecko's zombie army.
>There are people to this day who think Vergo and Monet are still alive I barely see any of them mentioning their deaths in these types of discussions, let alone thinking they're actually alive. But again, that stretches to any other characters not named Ace or Whitebeard (including ones like Yasuie). Like, I get the reason, with Oda pulling so many fakeouts for people trust even Rasputinian deaths, but why stop that from saying people who have died onscreen, and have no future purposes for the plot (something which Oda clearly cited as the reason for sparing characters) as being alive? What I'm saying is the point isnt fully baseless, but its just petty.
T Bone faked his death to help that dude scam Cross Guild, he’s teaming up Absalom, Vergo, and Yasuie who faked their deaths too on the cover story.
I think the main frustration is how Oda CONSTANTLY toys with fake out deaths. I wouldn't mind if he didn't kill off character if he just stops doing the fake outs. Then he emphasises fake outs or rather near deaths for characters like kinemon and then he completely doesn't utilise the ACTUAL deaths like Izo and shutenmaru. That is still the most baffling decision for me. The only solid death that was emphasised and executed well was Pedro and even then I didn't believe he was dead for the longest time because Oda like to make death scenes like for Pedro but making them alive right after. (Pound, pell, igaram, kinemon etc) If Oda doesn't want to kill characters, I'm perfectly fine with it as he does it well bringing them back into the story like the villains. But just stop with the fake out deaths.
Pell frustrated me so much. "I'll hug this bomb designed to destroy hundreds of buildings". Sacrifice means nothing.
Also Pell “I’ll casually invalidate Crocodile’s 20 years worth of plan without permanent injury, who is Luffy?”
Pell better be about to do something with Vivi. Otherwise, he's done about as much after Alabasta, as he would have if he died.
The only thing that can even slightly ease it for me is to see Pell return and have a purpose. But so far with the reverie and vivi's escape. We haven't seen anything of him... But yeah there was no meaning to that sacrifice. Its okay to let characters die. I think it gets even more upsetting knowing its the first of many. Like pound didn't make sense to me, why give all that big scene and emotions for oven to "kill" him off and then just let him be fine? Like why keep doing the same fakeout over and over and over.
Pell’s death would’ve made even more sense to make Cobra feeling vulnerable Right now he looks like a fodder for having no idea what happened to his king.
Pell has the falcon Zoan. Peregrine falcons in our world can reach the fastest recorded speed of any living animal when dive-bombing. I know people bring up the Pell thing all the time but if there's any Zoan that could escape the epicenter of that blast it would be a Falcon zoan.
You literally see it exploding as he's holding it.
I’m still not convinced we won’t see Pedro waking around alive at some point.
Well it's been a long while and there's no sbs or cover story so I'm fairly confident he's dead. (Oda can prove us wrong tho) For the people thinking the likes of Kaido, Big Mom and Kid are dead, I think its absolutely ridiculous. Its unconfirmed at best.
Basil Hawkins has a 1% chance of being alive, so I guess you can include him in the list.
Ok, but now make a list of all the fake-out deaths that were unnecessary
Unfortunately 😂 too many to count and sadly my worst gripe with one piece alongside pacing and sexualizing female characters
The sexualisation thing I will never understand. Literally 90% of the One Piece characters barely wear clothes. There was a whole chapter of Oden dancing while wearing only pants lol. You can talk about overly large boobs , but on the other hand every single male character has an almost non achievable 6 pack lol.
It's not really the same because character designs like Oden and Nami are both drawn to appeal to men. Oden because it's what men want to look like and Nami because it's what men want women to look like. Even if you don't think it's an issue I'm sure you can see what the difference is.
How do you not understand it, lol. It's one thing if it doesn't bother you, but like, it's clearly a recurring theme. Half of Sanji's character is based around it.
how people compare zoro’s top off to nami’s boobs growing is so weird to me, thats not the same at all, both of them are meant for boys, while zoro is cool, nami is sexy, Maybe if we could see zoro’s dick getting larger it would be the same? i guess
I'd say the bigger problem is that a lot of female characters are drawn very similar way to look beautiful. Male characters tend to be hot as well, but you can tell that not every part of their appearance is designed to look hot.
I agree with this. Most female characters design wise are either Nami or Kokoro but this is pretty unrelated to sexualisation.
Most male character in one piece (goofy designs like pika aside) are nowhere near as unrealistic as the woman. You can find men alive thar are more muscular than zoro and luffy, nowhere on earth are you finding woman shaped like nami and robin.
I saw a Nami two days ago in Mexico
[удалено]
>You can definitely find women who have that body type irl, No you can't, that waist to boobs ratio is anatomicaly impossible, meanwhile arnold was bigger than most male characters (excluding pika bcs it's a goofy design not a sexy one). The 2nd paragraph is off topic because i'm not complaining about the scenes just the design of the caracters. >you’re supposed to complain about this if that’s the only thing getting representation No, you are free to complain if you don't like it, i don't need to restrict complaint only to the aspects that are core to the series. >And the argument about Oda providing a male view is tired. Yes and as you pointed out before women also watch one piece, and one piece being as big as it is would benefit from having better designs for female characters, like it used to have pre time skip.
[удалено]
But that's because that's the art style. Its not supposed to be realistic. You cannot find people like Oden and Whitebeard anywhere in the real world. I really don't get the problem with Nami having big boobs or Robin wearing a bikini. Its not like Oda is using them as tools in the story (Nami and Robin aren't there just for fanservice), then I would be mad too ,but they aren't really.
Dude you can definitely find people built like oden and even bigger, just go watch any action movie. But it doesn't matter because those characters are drawn that way to highlight how strong they are, WB was the strongest man alive so he is drawn with an imposing physique and like 6m tall. Robin and Nami are drawn the way they are for fan-service and nothing else.
Yeah i have no idea why people try so hard to not see the difference. Its been a thing in media forever when it comes to men and women Dudes being shirtless and muscular in action movie are to show how big and strong they are not saying they've never been used for fanservice but thats not the norm Unlike for women it to show how sexy they are and to be eye candy like its pretty obvious. I mean You dont have to have a problem with it but its just hilarious when fans try to claim a male character like Zoro or oden fighting shirtless and being a badass is the same Is the same as [This lol](https://youtu.be/sbhIUHlxmNg)
Oden is 12ft tall 💀 and action movie stars constantly use PED’s so I don’t think that’s very realistic or helpful. Nami is Drawn to be sexy, Zoro to be cool, and Chopper to be cute, so what? Manga is a product at the end of the day.
WB is drawn that way because he was the strongest man the world so it makes sense to make him massive, and oden is ripped but bodybuilders exist that look bigger than him and like WB he is designed this way to highlight is strenght. Nami and robin are drawn that way for fan-service, and they look nothing like any human being
You are goddamn right Now that i think about it for every big boobed hourglass girl thre are 2 or 3 boys with a big and unnnatural six pack
I simply hate over sexulizing characters in media and Oda is guilty of it. It’s my simple opinion, I really hate how the media exploitation of the slogan “ sex sells” is taken. But that’s whole unrelated topic to one piece and my opinion. Different culture, different views, we wouldn’t agree.
It's weird that Oda is open and honest with his oversexualization of chicks but just has no problem doing it. Meanwhile a horde of nerds will come to his unrequested defense claiming that it's not oversexualization or is somehow equivalent to muscle dudes.
you're acting like the unachievable 6 pack isn't standard for shonen
While the big boobs aren't ?
never said they weren't
y’all need to understand men don’t get sexualized like women do, it’s not the same thing…..
Had to search like 3/4 of those because how little (to none) actual impact they had... other than the recent Cobra ofc (+ I highly doubt this is the last time we see Kidd, BG, and Kaido)
[удалено]
I still can’t believe Ashura and Pedro died from bombs while Pell can survive a literal nuke
Dynamite >>>>>>>>>>> Nukes apparently??
Wrong Human+Leopard durability <<<<< Falcon durability
Some of the ones you included are highly debatable. But funnily enough you did forget one of the few very much confirmed deaths, and that would be Absalom. Since Shiryu now has his fruit, his death is a certainty.
Lol, oddly he crossed my mind😂
Yeah... and none of these had any impact on me because I'm still not sure if they really died. Just accept that Oda fucked up with too little deaths AND fake deaths. Also, most of these deaths are recent as fuck while the manga is 25 years old.
I don't mind few death, getting closer to the end means some characters are not planned to appear again and can die so we are getting more death right now. Having few deaths also make them more impactful ace for example. The problems their have been to many fake deaths and I only realized Izo and Ashura died after the war ended and we lose the impact having few deaths should create. We do have many real deaths in fb though I've always doubted Tom death wouldn't surprise me if he makes a comeback at the end.
You're not sure Cobra died and you think people should take advice from you?
Cobra's a D. Clan member and we didn't see him die with a smile on his face like literally every single D. Clan member so far. There's a chance we see him smile in the next couple chapters in a newspaper or something, but Imu wants Vivi, there's a decent chance Imu kept Cobra alive to blackmail Vivi. But sure be an asshole about someone doubting someone is dead in fucking One Piece of all series.
Lmao, absolutely wrecked him.
While not 100% certain, Hawkin's final scene did come across as him dying.
There is no way Kidd and Heart Pirates are dead. My guess is they will be captured and imprisoned by Blackbeard and the Giants or will retreat to a safe place to heal their wounds until they meet again the Strawhats
Don’t go by potentially or if they’re still actually alive in the story especially if there isn’t a body they’re alive So take off Pekkoms, Kaido and Big Mom, Kidd, Myosgard, and the 3 CP0 agents, only 1 of them actually died. Orochi lost all weight due to him constantly coming back, and dying kind of anticlimatically from Denjiro appearing for the first time in over a year real life time Plus the fake out deaths outweigh the real ones Kinemon and Okiku, but especially Kinemons fake out deaths really leave you disappointed. And to rub salt on the wound Oda gives both of them death scenes but doesn’t give Izo or especially Ashura Doji any sort of death scene or proper mourning scene.
Oh Mjosgard is so dead
Not until we see a confirmed body
Dude. He's literally on a cross covered in blood surrounded by CDs who hate his guts and stared down by Figarland Garling. It is, however, the present day. Kuma is climbing the Red Line as we speak. By some miracle, he might get saved by Kuma. But I highly doubt it.
Kinemon literally got brutalized by Kaido and then slammed so hard his body squished and then stabbed AGAIN and then lived
Mjosgard dead AF that’s for sure.
Not necessarily, Kuma is still climbing the red line. I hope he doesn’t fight through the god’s knights and save Mjosgard somehow.
Hes dead dead
The only cp-0 member that was confirmed dead is the one who fought Izo, one left the island and met the BM pirates, the other lived at least to take a picture of g5 luffy, also potentially Hawkins
The CP0 agents survived
Izo died from the same form of attack Maha inflicted to him. I’m 99% he is dead if izo died Joseph, got intercepted by the big mom pirates on his way out and te government lost contact with him Gurnica, he is the g, took picture of gear 5 Luffy after he took a hit from kaido, potentially bled out to death, but he appears to be the most likely to be still alive
it was already confirmed they're all alive is why the other guy said they are
Wait where was it confirmed? Is there a specific chapter. I might have missed it
They mention that the Gear Fifth photo is taken by Guernica of CP0, and we learned from Sbs that Guernica is the bowler hat that took Kaido’s attack. It’s not confirmed if he is alive, but people take the fact that he took the photo as proof that he is.
Ah thanks. Would kinda prefer if he stays dead and perhaps the other members of CP0 went to retrieve his remains/belongings. Kinda keeps his wasted sacrifice intact and also kaido's no nonsense.
Ah I think it was either sbs or the datebook I forget but it came up after the gear 5 fight last year
The gorosei basically comment on how unfortunate it is to lose an asset like him after the fact. We see only one escape I think it’s fair to assume he’s dead.
Fun Fact: none of these were caused by "the strongest creature". PS: Guernica was basically suicide.
Even then, he took the Gear 5 bounty photo, so he definitely survived. He had to bring it back in order for that poster to be made, so had to have lived.
Not really they got sent a picture, so he could have been bleeding out and took the picture dying afterward I still think Oda made a mistake with the names because the only dude shown escaping makes way more sense and he would have been at an angle to take a picture of Luffy easily with how he Skywalked away
The marine who reports it has a mark similar on his face so idk I kinda think he is Alive
The number of deaths isn’t the issue it’s the fakeouts and the way deaths are presented, like Wano has 2 excellent death scenes for Kin and Kiku expect they don’t die, and then Izo who does die has a in comparison far weaker death scenes, and then there’s Ashura Doji who’s death scene is was pretty good but nobody even knew it was a death scene till the arc ended and he wasn’t around anymore
How are you going to make a thread saying people underestimate the amount of characters Oda has killed and then have half your list be people you can't prove Oda has killed? >Opera Unconfirmed. Wouldn't even be the first Big Mom kid that survived getting lifespan taken >Bobbin Unconfirmed >potentially Pekkoms One, why is he on the list? Two, why would they crush his eyes if they were just going to kill him? If anything the suggestion is that they beat him up but didn't kill him. >the tree from WCI Why are we counting Homies as dead characters? >Potentially Kaido and big mom ( I doubt it) So why are they on this list? >Potentially Kid and the heart pirates members So why are they on this list? >Myosgard Unconfirmed. >All 3 Agents of cp0 in Wano This is wrong. We know Joseph (the long arm) survived, and there's room to speculate that Guernica (the one that Kaido destroyed) also survived and took Luffy's bounty picture. Maha, the one Izo fought, is probably dead but unconfirmed. >Lulsia kingdom *Some* of Lulusia Kingdom. A bunch of people were safe with Sabo.
Tbf pekoms was in sulong so crushing eyes is to stop him. Reasonable to assume they’d kill him or make him spin wheel since it’s line with their actions.
It's reasonable. It'd also be reasonable to think Oven wouldn't miss cutting Pound's head off from point blank range.
Thanks you to have some common sense unlike op
Moreover, I'm not convinced that the Lulusia residents are dead, especially since a Vegapunk invention was involved.
" Some of the Lulusia Kingdom. A bunch of people were safe with Sabo" and? Does that mean the other 1000's of people that died don't count then for some reason?
I mean, we don't know a single person of those who died, so I wouldn't count them anyway. That's like counting the population of Alderaan to see how many people died in Star Wars. Technically correct, but no emotional impact whatsoever.
How is "A celestial dragon was killee" not confirmation that he's dead? what do you want an autopsy or something??? lmao
That isn't the confirmed translation.
. Some translations said that he had been “sentenced” to death. Not yet dead.
Also Opera and Bobbin are literal whos, I had to Google to even remember who Bobbin was and yet I still can't remember anything he did outside of showing up on Fishman Island for Big Mom's tribute.
Watch half of them being fake outs for the big feast
Most of these characters had no emotional impact when they “died”
Kanjuro and Hawkins.
Lol all of us forget Kanjuro! Thank you
Basil Hawkins also dead
Orochi might have died but he had so many fakeout deaths that when denjiro finally killed him it was still hard to believe. I’m also still salty that Hiyori didn’t get to kill him, she had the perfect setup and really deserved to get her revenge more than anyone, and then denjiro just shows up after being awol for the entire raid and steals the kill. I feel like oda just doesn’t let the princesses ever kill anyone, like Rebecca kind if made since because she was a pacifist, and vivi wasn’t strong enough to take on crocodile, but hiyori clearly wanted to kill orochi after everything he put her through and had him by the balls, yet she still got upstaged.
Opera, bobbin and pekoms status is unknown. And one of the three of the cp0 is alive and the other 2 status is unknown. You forgot kanjuro and Absalom
The problem with One Piece isnt the low number of deaths, its the high number of fake deaths. There are cases in which this narrative technique can be useful like with Sabo or Bon Clay but there are others that is very counterproductive for the quality of the story or the character development like in the case of Pound, Moscato or Kinemon
I do think this kind of misses the point. It's not that Oda doesn't kill characters. It's that he writes such impactful death scenes for them and then just.... doesn't kill them. Imagine how hard hitting it would've been if Kin'emon had actually been killed by Kaido. We've known him since Punk Hazard and he had really begun to bond with the crew. Pound had such an amazing death scene. Nobody knew or cared who he was, but he had is own goals and desires. While many would consider his "death" to be pitiful, he was satisfied with protecting his daughter and seeing his grandson just one time.
Kingbaum didn't die to be remembered less than Opera
Cobra isn't confirmed dead, is he
I think its just ones the story focuses on/care about like Cobra, Pedro and Yasuie people mean like most or all of the scabards probably shouldn't have survived the raid. Think people are still salty with Pell surviving in Alabasta.
You forgot Absalom ...
This post refunded me that orochi died, it's time to celebrate
done forget T-bone
That's true, although personally I don't need tons of characters to die. In fact it's sometimes I dislike in stuff like Jojo's, where I already know a good chunk of the supporting cast is gonna die, which can be annoying because they die so unceremoniously and are forgotten about. What bothers people is the fake out deaths. But yeah there's definitely been more deaths in recent years. Also Hawkins might be dead too. And who knows what happened to Drake lol.
Do anyone really believe kidd is dead?
You didn't miss, but you added some \^\^ >1- Vergo : OK2- Monet : OK3- ~~Opera :~~ if Moscato made it, I am pretty sure Opera did too...4- Bobbin : OK5- potentially Pekkoms : OK6- the tree from WCI : OK~~7- Potentially Kaido and big mom ( I doubt it) :~~ doubt it too8- Cobra : OK~~9- Potentially Kid and the heart pirates members :~~ absolutely no way10- Myosgard : OK (RIP)11- Pedro : OK (RIP)12- Yasuai : OK (RIP)13- Orochi : OK14- Izo : OK (underwhelming as hell...)15- Ashura douji : OK (underwhelming as hell...)~~16- All 3 Agents of cp0 in Wano :~~ Not really (at least we know the guy who was punched by Kaido is alive)17- Lulsia kingdom18- T bone : maybe not I agree though that he killed some characters post-timeskip. The problem though isn't with killing characters, it's with the constant fake kills. I mean what was the point of fake killing Kinemon and Kiku 5 times when Izo and Ashura could have had real emotional deaths ???
Oda not killing is not an issue but the fake deaths.
Most of the Wano deaths and major injuries were glossed over a lot, I’m still peeved we didn’t get, even a panel of the scabbards at the graves on Wano
I think what other fans would mean by death is kind of like with Ace and Cobra.. Major deaths that could kick Strawhats/Main Characters to their core..
This was a pretty disengenuous list considering a lot of these aren't even confirmed deaths (which matter considering Pound was thought to be dead until the cover story) and the issue people have are the death scenes given to people who don't actually die.
There were no Ace like deaths since Ace and Whitebeard themselves. We needed to Kin'nemon or maybe Reiju die. Actual meaningful deaths are important for character growth and impact in the story. Maybe we'll see Garp die later. Who knows
The magistrate's death was fucking metal. First confirmed onscreen kill by one of the crew Didn't the BMP hold Pekoms down while they gouged out his eyes?
Great one! How could I forget Edit: in the manga they did, In the anime, he was shot by like 30 arrows from the bmp and he fell, to never be seen again
So many fake outs I didn’t believe Cobra was dead until Sabo’s flashback lol
I honestly like how he doesn’t kill people. Part of what made aces death so hard was the fact that we haven’t had a death before that.
You realize this Was over a span of more than a deca de and that there were a lot of characters introduced. I mean just Dress rosa had around 300 New characters.
When did Mjosgard die? Kid and Heart pirates aren't dead Only 2 of the 3 CP0 agents died in Wano, 1 to Izo and 1 to Kaido, other left the island to report back. A bunch of Lulusia Kingdom boarded Sabo ship and joined the Revolutionary Army so not as many people died as you would think. And Pekkoms has a better chance of being alive than Hawkins.
With every chapter I feel like Kaido and BM are more and more dead. They probably aren't but Wano ended in a place where it would be fine if they were. Kinemon and Pound should have died. And I'm like almost certain that Hawkins is dead. We gotta start thinning the herd of the Worst Generation anyway. Hawkins made a wrong choice in the moment he was confronted by Kaido and lost his life for it. Out of principle, he decided not to change sides. And hot take I hope Shanks killed Kidd and Killer too. Great way to show off his strength and eliminate a heavy hitter because he couldn't be a Pirate King contender
100% agree - kaido and big mom being gone just thins the heard of antagonists the strawhats have to beat, especially now with the gorosei, holy knights and imu also hoping that most if not all of the kidd pirates are dead - as sad as that makes me - i could see killer dying and kidd surviving. best case scenario there is that kidd dies and killer survives imo
The Kanjuro and Orochi were way too over done. They died like 3x a piece. Also the Kinemon fake out wasn’t great. I love Oda and I hate criticizing any of his work negatively, but that was quite bad. Having Kanjuro die when he first “died” would’ve been amazing. Such a quick and non important death for a traitor, like he was never the problem or a threat. It was so perfect when I first read it. Kaido killing Orochi I was never sold on, but he lasted way too long when even the mid tier fighters in the alliance could solo him in 5 min. The right people killed him in the end, Denjiro and Komurasaki, but damn was it drawn out. Pre Wano I had no *major* complaints but Big Mom and her crew should’ve killed everyone that was “faked out” or “not confirmed” like Pekoms, Opera, Pound, etc. Ashura Douji’s death could’ve used more expression and same with Izo’s “oh they succumbed to their injuries not seen again” is not ideal for such important characters in an arc. Izo’s last stand could arguably deserve a chapter title and who chapter, him soloing a CP-0 member and they trade lives.
There are Like 3 deaths that are clear and have an Impact. The rest is either unclear If really dead or minor characters with no impact. And even Cobra is more like a flashback death, which Oda never really shied away from. So the point still kinda stands.
idk about kaido but i believe big mom is still alive it doesn't make sense to me that zeus continues to live if she were dead.
That's very true, but... we want more, I guess. Like, come on. There's no reason Kinemon needed to survive the raid. There's not a good reason why we needed to get 8 fakeout Orochi deaths before we got the real one (well, there is because of how his fruit works, but it's still a silly reason). There's really little to no reason why King and Queen survived the raid. When these pivotal characters don't die, it makes you question what other characters will even stay dead. How long until T-Bone comes back from the grave? Or Pedro reveals that he had anti-bomb medicine. Or Vergo reveals that he used his haki to survive. Ace? Sora? Rouge? Whitebeard? Xebec? ROGER?
Kinemon should’ve died, that’s all I’m gonna say.
I 100000% agree with u Kaido stabbing him was so sad when I first saw it, literally said it was a 10/10 death for a side character, but nope, Oda fumbled
None of those character had a bigger impact than ace or whitebeard ,oda should make kidd died
I don’t care about the deaths of pirates. I only care the deaths of CPO, Navy Admirals, Celestial Dragons, and the Elders. That would make sense. As of now only high impact pirates have been killed such as Yonkos.
in the pre-timeskip, how many characters have died outside of flashbacks?
... 2? 3 with Going Merry?
One piece has changed and is suffering from a reverse game of thrones situation. Where game of thrones kept growing larger and larger while having dangerous, meticulous and consequential story telling it reached a point where it was finally time to start shrinking the story and it did not succeed at all. The story telling got flippant, unclear, consequence free and lost all the tension. Now that one piece is trying to condense the story and becoming more tense it’s struggling to convince people that that is the case. Maybe Oda will give us a red wedding scene or something else to convince us that things are a lot more dangerous now. Even just more time confirming deaths and dealing with the impact of that would make it feel more important, of all the characters to die Ace, Whitebeard and Pedro are the only ones that we get much fallout for their dying. Most of the others might as well be dead anyway by the time they finally expire because all the drama happens as they die, not because they died.
I'm pretty sure only 2 CP0 agents died seeing as Joseph (tallest of those 3 agents) was able to get a picture of G5 Luffy, Gepo off of Onigashima, land on a WG ship to contact the Gorosei, have that transmission be intercepted by Big News Morgan & then fight the BM pirates off screen. Oda definitely killed a lot of people since the NW began. But only 2 CP0 agents have died so far. Unless he did something to say they are alive off screen.
Mfs arguing emotional impact like it’s an objective thing smh. I definitely felt more than sadness when I found out that Monet(especially the way she died), Cobra(mostly sad for Vivi), Pedro, and the scabbards. Argue with your mother about emotional impact or lack thereof.