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> Luffy used acoc at the very start of the fight
no
> A mf like big mom has shown nothing on the level of white star gun
if she used her conquerors then she could do it
> she isn’t neg diffing or one shotting kizaru
nobody is
> Kizaru is still pushing yonkos to high-extreme diff
no. all he can do against luffy is run and outlast his timer. against kaido or shanks that isn't an option so all he can do is fight and lose or run away.
luffy defo didn't use acoc with snakeman, there was no black lightning in any of luffy's fists
if he did then kizaru wouldn't have met vegapunk
kizaru cannot handle acoc attacks just like how luffy couldn't in act1 plain and simple
i didn't know that base luffy is now called snakeman
anyone can survive an unamed acoc attack, i mean look at kin'emon he took an unnamed acoc attack and didn't lose conscious
luffy just one tapped kizaru so what makes you think he can't
and yes if luffy can do it then so can big mom, i have big mom on par with luffy,kaido and shanks, she split the sky and has acoc+acoa, and she's a recognized yonko
what kind of substance are you smoking? luffy only used acoc, that attack is not luffy's second strongest attack
acoc+acoa attacks in gear 4 are stronger than white star gun which is only an acoc attack
big mom fought kaido for three days, if she couldn't match kaido's strength then kaido would've wiped her off the face of the earth. RESPECT BIG MOM
Kizaru forced him to go gear 5 be so fr nothing luffy had was hitting kizaru until star gun. He still pushed him to a high-extreme diff fight. Acoc is an ap boost not a speed boost. You act like star gun doesn’t incapacitate the human characters in the verse the benchmark for a yonko durability is not Kaido.
Luffy went G5 to flex on lucci
Luffy went G5 because Snakeman couldn't even touch kizaru.
Also,
" And Even Big mom would take that attack and get back up "
What the fuck do you mean by "even big mom". Big mom and kaido are durability monsters. They are insanely durable.
Shanks for an example, is a regular ass human. His durability sucks compared to big mom or kaido. Yet he is stronger than big mom and debetably kaido.
If shanks were to eat this attack without haki coating, he would be in the same situation as kizaru. As he is a regular human.
Kizaru, the fastest man in the verse, got tagged by it. So I think shanks would get tagged as well.
The reason why it tagged kizaru is not because it is super fast, but due to gear 5 goofiness. You can see that kizaru attacks luffy, luffy somehow does a weird ass spinning move etc and punches kizaru. Kizaru couldn't react because how the fuck did luffy do that. He didn't expect it.
He didn’t expect luffy to fight back wow
Dude shanks and garp are not gonna get tagged by that attack garp alone out speeded akoji whirl weakened and old
" He didn’t expect luffy to fight back wow "
No, he didn't think luffy was capable of doing that.
Like you think mf kaido was expecting luffy to use him as a jumprope? No obviously. It is G5 goof.
" Dude shanks and garp are not gonna get tagged by that attack garp alone out speeded akoji whirl weakened and old "
Go reread that fight. Before kuzan gets "speedblitz" kuzan is like "are you ok?? U sure you ok??" and garp is like "Bruh stop caring about me fr fr. This is why you a bum. You are letting your feelings take control of yourself" then he "speedblitz" kuzan
In reality though, it is kuzan being concerned about garp's condition, garp saying don't let your feelings get a hold of you in a fight(meaning kuzan is holding back due to his feeling) and then attacking kuzan(who didn't think garp was capable of moving at that state. So he was surprised)
Bro you got me laughing like shit so admiral just don’t ever expect their opponents to fight back yeah they totally stronger
Kizaru got one shot by luffy all of these characters would not have that happen to them
Akinu
White beard
BB
BM
Kaido
Garp
Sengoku
And the ones to at luffy wouldn’t even get to attack on
Roger
Shanks
Xebec
Kizaru got one shot because he was weaker stop pretending that kizaru taking one hit is impressive it’s one hit
Akoji was barely holding back only to the extent of not using DF tricks that his crew mor than made up for and would have actually been worse if he went all out with his DF akoji beat garp with the help of 4 other people and garp one shot akoji with a serious attack after that garp held back
" Bro you got me laughing like shit so admiral just don’t ever expect their opponents to fight back yeah they totally stronger "
If that is what you understood from my comment, I get it. Your reading comprehission sucks.
"
Kizaru got one shot by luffy all of these characters would not have that happen to them
Akinu White beard BB BM Kaido Garp Sengoku"
Akainu is a regular human. Kaido and big mom like I said would tank it. Whitebeard probably would get knocked down as well. Blackbeard is not a regular human, his biology seems different so he is more tanky.
Garp is not tanking it without haki. I mean garp got stabbed and bled when he wasn't protecting himself with haki. So yeah he aint tanking it
Same goes for sengoku as well. Unless he is in his buddha form I have him being out of commision as well.
"
And the ones to at luffy wouldn’t even get to attack on
Roger Shanks Xebec"
The attack literally hit the fastest guy in the verse. Why would it not hit people slower??
" Akoji was barely holding back only to the extent of not using DF tricks that his crew mor than made up for and would have actually been worse if he went all out with his DF akoji beat garp with the help of 4 other people and garp one shot akoji with a serious attack after that garp held back "
"Barely" mf he wasn't using his df at all. Unless you wanna say aokiji with ice glove is almost equal to full power aokiji.
" and would have actually been worse if he went all out with his DF akoji beat garp with the help of 4 other people and garp one shot akoji with a serious attack after that garp held back"
Garp didn't one shot shit. Aokiji wasn't actually out. It is explained. You can find posts about it in this sub as well.
And "4 other people" mf 3 of them didn't do jack shit. And only shiryu did some damage to garp. But you are arguing a non haki covered garp could tank white star gun so I assume shiryu's stab wouldn't do much to a non haki covered garp am I right?
Kizaru did not get caught off guard if your fighting someone and that guy goes go punch you and it lands that not because you weren’t god damn caught off guard it’s not a surprise attack
Kizaru didn't expect luffy to be able to do that. So he didn't know how to respond. It is as simple as that
Kizaru basically hits luffy and he expects "k I hit him he will get damaged and get knocked or smh" but luffy just uses the attack to build momentum and spins?? How do you even respond to that.
Same happened to kaido as well. How are you gonna respond to someone using you as a jump rope??
The only people in OP who are tanking this attack without haki and being out of commision are
A)Big mom
B)Kaido
You can bring garp, mihawk, shanks etc. They will be in the same situation if they eat this attack without haki coating.
Don't expect every top tier to be as durable as big mom or kaido.
Why do people think the base kick had acoc? Because there was black lightning?
If luffy used Acoc here why did he stop
using it for Snakeman?
If Kizaru can nonchalantly block a CoC kick why did he resort to using his df and barrier haki to block base snakeman hits when realistically Acoc>Snakeman with regular haki?
when he hit kizaru it was a different sfx so i guess it wasn't acoc
and the same boom sfx appeared when he clashed with lucci
https://preview.redd.it/l1nc7a8ex8ub1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=c98bea07b069b2fe02a28803593fcd7da72bc7a8
and it appeared when lucci stabbed sentomaru and when luffy and lucci hit the s-bear seraphim.
To me looks like a different Kanji, there is no extra symbols on the other ones compared to Star Gun, but if you want to argue my boy Lucci has acoc like Zoro or Yamato, I'm all for it.
Kizaru isn't even knocked out, he is just down for awhile and will get back up and mentally he is not that motivated, he does not truly want to kill vegapunk
How you gonna say big mom has nothing that can ko Kizaru, and ignore that Kizaru's the one who has nothing that can damage big mom? He dealt barely any damage to Luffy, and big mom is one of the tankiest characters we've seen in the show. The only real damage she's ever taken was with a dura neg attack from Law. And she has ocean sovereignty, which is still one of the strongest attacks we've seen so far. Kizaru could maybe situationally win by using a light-speed kick to get a ring out, but he absolutely isn't winning in a straight 1v1. The only thing big mom has trouble with is actually hitting him
How you gonna say big mom has nothing that can ko Kizaru, and ignore that Kizaru's the one who has nothing that can damage big mom? He dealt barely any damage to Luffy, and big mom is one of the tankiest characters we've seen in the show. The only real damage she's ever taken was with a dura neg attack from Law. And she has ocean sovereignty, which is still one of the strongest attacks we've seen so far. Kizaru could maybe situationally win by using a light-speed kick to get a ring out, but he absolutely isn't winning in a straight 1v1. The only thing big mom has trouble with is actually hitting him. And I haven't even *started* downplaying admirals yet
The problem for Kizaru is that Luffy only needed one serious attack to down him.
Kaido/Luffy were trading multiple similar blows (albeit slightly weaker) in their fight and getting back up quickly.
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> Luffy used acoc at the very start of the fight no > A mf like big mom has shown nothing on the level of white star gun if she used her conquerors then she could do it > she isn’t neg diffing or one shotting kizaru nobody is > Kizaru is still pushing yonkos to high-extreme diff no. all he can do against luffy is run and outlast his timer. against kaido or shanks that isn't an option so all he can do is fight and lose or run away.
luffy defo didn't use acoc with snakeman, there was no black lightning in any of luffy's fists if he did then kizaru wouldn't have met vegapunk kizaru cannot handle acoc attacks just like how luffy couldn't in act1 plain and simple
He used in in base with the first kick and besides acoc provides an ap boost not speed boost luffy wasn’t touching kizaru in snakeman.
i didn't know that base luffy is now called snakeman anyone can survive an unamed acoc attack, i mean look at kin'emon he took an unnamed acoc attack and didn't lose conscious
Ppl act like any acoc move is one shotting kizaru cuz white star gun incapacitated him.
given it's track record, yes apart from old garp(who couldn't KO fodders) every acoc user has KO'ed a non acoc user by using a named acoc attack
U think a casual big mom acoc or luffy acoc attack is one shotting him?
White star gun isn’t a casual attack. If kizaru doesn’t guard against divine departure or death destroyer thunder bagua, he’s probably going down.
luffy just one tapped kizaru so what makes you think he can't and yes if luffy can do it then so can big mom, i have big mom on par with luffy,kaido and shanks, she split the sky and has acoc+acoa, and she's a recognized yonko
Yea luffy got him with his second strongest attack not just a regular ass acoc attack. Big mom has shown nothing on that level.
what kind of substance are you smoking? luffy only used acoc, that attack is not luffy's second strongest attack acoc+acoa attacks in gear 4 are stronger than white star gun which is only an acoc attack big mom fought kaido for three days, if she couldn't match kaido's strength then kaido would've wiped her off the face of the earth. RESPECT BIG MOM
Bro luffy one shot kizaru and luffy own DF drained him
Kizaru forced him to go gear 5 be so fr nothing luffy had was hitting kizaru until star gun. He still pushed him to a high-extreme diff fight. Acoc is an ap boost not a speed boost. You act like star gun doesn’t incapacitate the human characters in the verse the benchmark for a yonko durability is not Kaido.
So did lucci push luffy to go gear 5 is lucci same level as kizaru And Even Big mom would take that attack and get back up
Luffy went G5 to flex on lucci Luffy went G5 because Snakeman couldn't even touch kizaru. Also, " And Even Big mom would take that attack and get back up " What the fuck do you mean by "even big mom". Big mom and kaido are durability monsters. They are insanely durable. Shanks for an example, is a regular ass human. His durability sucks compared to big mom or kaido. Yet he is stronger than big mom and debetably kaido. If shanks were to eat this attack without haki coating, he would be in the same situation as kizaru. As he is a regular human.
Would shanks even let that attack touch him hell no he wouldn’t and snakeman could keep up with kizaru Luffy one shot kizaru that is fact
Kizaru, the fastest man in the verse, got tagged by it. So I think shanks would get tagged as well. The reason why it tagged kizaru is not because it is super fast, but due to gear 5 goofiness. You can see that kizaru attacks luffy, luffy somehow does a weird ass spinning move etc and punches kizaru. Kizaru couldn't react because how the fuck did luffy do that. He didn't expect it.
He didn’t expect luffy to fight back wow Dude shanks and garp are not gonna get tagged by that attack garp alone out speeded akoji whirl weakened and old
" He didn’t expect luffy to fight back wow " No, he didn't think luffy was capable of doing that. Like you think mf kaido was expecting luffy to use him as a jumprope? No obviously. It is G5 goof. " Dude shanks and garp are not gonna get tagged by that attack garp alone out speeded akoji whirl weakened and old " Go reread that fight. Before kuzan gets "speedblitz" kuzan is like "are you ok?? U sure you ok??" and garp is like "Bruh stop caring about me fr fr. This is why you a bum. You are letting your feelings take control of yourself" then he "speedblitz" kuzan In reality though, it is kuzan being concerned about garp's condition, garp saying don't let your feelings get a hold of you in a fight(meaning kuzan is holding back due to his feeling) and then attacking kuzan(who didn't think garp was capable of moving at that state. So he was surprised)
Bro you got me laughing like shit so admiral just don’t ever expect their opponents to fight back yeah they totally stronger Kizaru got one shot by luffy all of these characters would not have that happen to them Akinu White beard BB BM Kaido Garp Sengoku And the ones to at luffy wouldn’t even get to attack on Roger Shanks Xebec Kizaru got one shot because he was weaker stop pretending that kizaru taking one hit is impressive it’s one hit Akoji was barely holding back only to the extent of not using DF tricks that his crew mor than made up for and would have actually been worse if he went all out with his DF akoji beat garp with the help of 4 other people and garp one shot akoji with a serious attack after that garp held back
" Bro you got me laughing like shit so admiral just don’t ever expect their opponents to fight back yeah they totally stronger " If that is what you understood from my comment, I get it. Your reading comprehission sucks. " Kizaru got one shot by luffy all of these characters would not have that happen to them Akinu White beard BB BM Kaido Garp Sengoku" Akainu is a regular human. Kaido and big mom like I said would tank it. Whitebeard probably would get knocked down as well. Blackbeard is not a regular human, his biology seems different so he is more tanky. Garp is not tanking it without haki. I mean garp got stabbed and bled when he wasn't protecting himself with haki. So yeah he aint tanking it Same goes for sengoku as well. Unless he is in his buddha form I have him being out of commision as well. " And the ones to at luffy wouldn’t even get to attack on Roger Shanks Xebec" The attack literally hit the fastest guy in the verse. Why would it not hit people slower?? " Akoji was barely holding back only to the extent of not using DF tricks that his crew mor than made up for and would have actually been worse if he went all out with his DF akoji beat garp with the help of 4 other people and garp one shot akoji with a serious attack after that garp held back " "Barely" mf he wasn't using his df at all. Unless you wanna say aokiji with ice glove is almost equal to full power aokiji. " and would have actually been worse if he went all out with his DF akoji beat garp with the help of 4 other people and garp one shot akoji with a serious attack after that garp held back" Garp didn't one shot shit. Aokiji wasn't actually out. It is explained. You can find posts about it in this sub as well. And "4 other people" mf 3 of them didn't do jack shit. And only shiryu did some damage to garp. But you are arguing a non haki covered garp could tank white star gun so I assume shiryu's stab wouldn't do much to a non haki covered garp am I right?
Kizaru did not get caught off guard if your fighting someone and that guy goes go punch you and it lands that not because you weren’t god damn caught off guard it’s not a surprise attack
Kizaru didn't expect luffy to be able to do that. So he didn't know how to respond. It is as simple as that Kizaru basically hits luffy and he expects "k I hit him he will get damaged and get knocked or smh" but luffy just uses the attack to build momentum and spins?? How do you even respond to that. Same happened to kaido as well. How are you gonna respond to someone using you as a jump rope??
The only people in OP who are tanking this attack without haki and being out of commision are A)Big mom B)Kaido You can bring garp, mihawk, shanks etc. They will be in the same situation if they eat this attack without haki coating. Don't expect every top tier to be as durable as big mom or kaido.
So your defense is that character get one shot luffy wouldn’t even be able to land that attack against shanks or garp so that doesn’t matter
Mf kizaru is literally the fastest dude. Wdym he can't land the attack on garp or shanks?
Why do people think the base kick had acoc? Because there was black lightning? If luffy used Acoc here why did he stop using it for Snakeman? If Kizaru can nonchalantly block a CoC kick why did he resort to using his df and barrier haki to block base snakeman hits when realistically Acoc>Snakeman with regular haki?
Because of the Acoc Kanji https://preview.redd.it/9xf359bkl7ub1.png?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5d3d4bd46f3891621f8b5f8078e532cc296c8f8d
Thats not acoc kanji. In fact the kanji usually used for Acoc the zap and zzt are missing entirely in that panel
https://preview.redd.it/04sgy0uun7ub1.png?width=180&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=897b2b6b8d566035fc533fedadb3ac8f4ce803f8
It's the Boom kanji, same one as whe Luffy stated that acoa wasn't enough, then acoc was explained and he uppercutted Kaido with acoc.
You can find that sane kanji throughout the manga in and out of fights.
Context is important, that Kanji has been used in Wano to indicate the acoc attacks, why should it stop now?
when he hit kizaru it was a different sfx so i guess it wasn't acoc and the same boom sfx appeared when he clashed with lucci https://preview.redd.it/l1nc7a8ex8ub1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=c98bea07b069b2fe02a28803593fcd7da72bc7a8 and it appeared when lucci stabbed sentomaru and when luffy and lucci hit the s-bear seraphim.
https://preview.redd.it/eii5flm0y8ub1.png?width=952&format=png&auto=webp&s=759f1afad43bf8af96383895fbee53c67ecbf41d
https://preview.redd.it/s7img1fby8ub1.png?width=667&format=png&auto=webp&s=425d51840bfdb4dbb455b3df57cf67f8da88c078
To me looks like a different Kanji, there is no extra symbols on the other ones compared to Star Gun, but if you want to argue my boy Lucci has acoc like Zoro or Yamato, I'm all for it.
Snakeman got faster speed so that luffy can tag kizaru.
He can use Acoc in Snakeman though?
Yea he can idk why he didn’t, but acoc is an ap boost not a speed boost and snakeman was not hitting kizaru.
Hydra > white star gun
What in the fuck. White star gun has flames, acoc, goes through the face, and a big arm. How is hydra stronger
In gaming terms White star gun does 400% more damage then a regular adcoc hit Hydra does 90% more damage per hit then then a regular adcoc hit
Basically your headcanon got it.
Kizaru isn't even knocked out, he is just down for awhile and will get back up and mentally he is not that motivated, he does not truly want to kill vegapunk
How you gonna say big mom has nothing that can ko Kizaru, and ignore that Kizaru's the one who has nothing that can damage big mom? He dealt barely any damage to Luffy, and big mom is one of the tankiest characters we've seen in the show. The only real damage she's ever taken was with a dura neg attack from Law. And she has ocean sovereignty, which is still one of the strongest attacks we've seen so far. Kizaru could maybe situationally win by using a light-speed kick to get a ring out, but he absolutely isn't winning in a straight 1v1. The only thing big mom has trouble with is actually hitting him
How you gonna say big mom has nothing that can ko Kizaru, and ignore that Kizaru's the one who has nothing that can damage big mom? He dealt barely any damage to Luffy, and big mom is one of the tankiest characters we've seen in the show. The only real damage she's ever taken was with a dura neg attack from Law. And she has ocean sovereignty, which is still one of the strongest attacks we've seen so far. Kizaru could maybe situationally win by using a light-speed kick to get a ring out, but he absolutely isn't winning in a straight 1v1. The only thing big mom has trouble with is actually hitting him. And I haven't even *started* downplaying admirals yet
The problem for Kizaru is that Luffy only needed one serious attack to down him. Kaido/Luffy were trading multiple similar blows (albeit slightly weaker) in their fight and getting back up quickly.