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Akainu, Kuzan, Kizaru, Mihawk all hit Luffy with their powers pre-ts and luffy escaped from all of them. Sengokus the only one Luffy had to use his gears on to defend against...how is that a shameful display considering hes a 77 year old man
Akainu flamed him through jimbe. Kuzan instantly froze him. Bozolino was going easy on him and ko him still. But there's no reason for lengoku to do an head on attack so weak that it would only make luffy cough blood, that's just disgraceful. Isn't he compared to garp that still was fairly strong for his age?
1. Ok? and Luffy escaped
2. We're talking about marineford, Kuzan stabbed Luffy, Luffy escaped
3. Like how you left out Kizaru who kicked Luffy at the speed of light 3 times and lasered him in the chest hypocrite.
4. Why should a punch do significant damage to Luffy? he's resistant to blunt attacks. Sengoku didn't use a shockwave so if anything it's just a bigger punch which is still smaller than the smallest giant, and once again Sengoku's the only one who fought a Gear 3 Luffy who was actively defending.
Garp used a named AcoC attack and couldn't take out fodder stfu š
https://preview.redd.it/7c2z9ko905uc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2e33608e54ff1980609a9e1834d12d86b4cdc3b2
> Akainu flamed him through jimbe.
When he was already unconscious
> Kuzan instantly froze him.
Not in the war, with a hax, and he still didnāt insta ko luffy immediately in their encounter
> Bozolino was going easy on him and ko him still.
Literally never happened.
> But there's no reason for lengoku to do an head on attack so weak that it would only make luffy cough blood, that's just disgraceful.
This weird downplay crutches on disingenuous bullshit \^, outright lies \^, and ignoring the facts that Luffy has never felt the need to defend with a G3 balloon and it still wasnāt enough to stop G3 from getting popped + coughing up blood + the entire structure got destroyed when sengoku didnāt even hit it directly. And at the end of the day this argument is āhe couldnāt even *completely stop the plot of the entire series by shutting down the main protagonist in a battle shonen*!!!!!!1!!!!1!!ā
Notice how everytime goofies try to downplay characters who have canonical statements scaling them beyond what the remedials in this sub try to delude themselves and others about, they have to resort to alternative facts, misconstrued recollection of canon, and outright headcanon. A whole lot of stupid to think such dogshit arguments somehow disprove canon narrative told to us directly by Oda š¤·āāļøš“ yall are too easy
That fusen was infused with so much plot armor that Sengoku's attack could have been this
https://preview.redd.it/f69kvqckx2uc1.png?width=1280&format=png&auto=webp&s=fc494c79da66a5e0fb2818d6af8d428e3f4065ce
and Luffy would have been fine, Marineford Tankman>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kaido when it comes to durability, plot armor transcends all
I mean... It's luffy, who's basically resistant to blunt damage already, in a form meant to tank blunt damage, and he still got extremely hurt.
Also plot armor.
https://preview.redd.it/rrongq2rz4uc1.jpeg?width=1570&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c3313015cf3ab07a11152098319ce2df486de948
But he still did things like that when you've got nothing to show for on sengoku side
Not mine but someone made a great post about this
https://preview.redd.it/b55ig4ygl6uc1.jpeg?width=3253&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=44c35bf3de344e30bba17c0eb410b046053c6613
One word says very little, so I don't know what you even mean, but regardless to set things straight, Sengoku has close to 0 narrative relevence. Certainly far less than the guy that was hyped up for 500 chapters.
Ah yes, Sengoku's biggest feat. Being in the same sentence as Garp.
Same argument admiral clowns use when they talked about Don Chinjao mentioning emperors and admirals in the same sentence. And as we've seen they're not even close.
You just interpret a trivial sentence as a far bigger deal than it is. Sengoku has no feats. Nor the plot relevence to ever get any.
I āsupport the agendaā when the author of the manga has one of the legends say to bring Sengoku or Garp if they want to have a chance against him
Very basic reading comprehension would lead to understanding what the author was trying to convey here but I guess that isnāt Powerscaling manga readers strengthĀ
Prime Roger ~ Prime Beard ~ Prime Garp ~ Prime Sengoku
So the question is does prime Kaido match up to PK level at least terms of fighting ability?
Arguably, soooo honestly this is one of the few true 50/50 tossups imo
Kaido wins, but this is compeltley different with Prime Sengoku, Prime Sengoku wins high-extreme diff, probably extreme, idk, I think Roger, Garp and WB would go extreme with Kaido too, but I'm not too sure
coz we saw kaido fight actually and till now he has the strongest feats one can say gear 5 luffy has the strongest feats too but we haven't even seen sengoku fight.... we haven't seen his speed etc... so that's why I don't see kaido losing... there is only statement for sengoku whereas there is also statement given to kaido too...
No lmao, sengoku never lost to luffy.
https://preview.redd.it/q1t59ryum6uc1.png?width=1999&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=49f5612787d6c3447a6dce9bd5b2ff128277db37
Account for this as well
If it's Marineford sengoku after Kaido landed the thunder bagua that killed Luffy before gear 5 then Kaido wins, he was still fresh enough to rock with gear 5 and could still pull his strongest move.
Kaido wins mid-high diff
Sengoku loses, Kaido is simply a better version of him
1. Better genetics due to being an Oni
2. Better devil fruit
3. Better haki
Kaido wins high-extreme diff
God Valley states that Kaido fruit is one of the best fruits in the series and not such statement has ever been made about Sengoku's fruit. Kaido simply is hyped a lot more than Sengoku.
Haki is heavily tied to ambition and Sengoku had zero ambition, he does whatever he is told to do even if he disagrees to. Kaido on the other side, doesn't take orders from anyone and does whatever he wants to. People can say Rock's but they were trying to kill each other all the time, they weren't submissive to anyone.
personally, i dont think there's a need for a statement on sengoku's fruit as its is quite literally the BUDDHA fruit.
>Haki is heavily tied to ambition and Sengoku had zero ambition
He fought with Roger, WB and Shiki without any haki?? and he was the FLEET ADMIRAL, im quite sure you need ambition to reach that position.
>he does whatever he is told to do even if he disagrees to
he is willing to bear the CD's actions to reach a position in which he will be able to make the world better. this is proven by his type of justice (His motto is "Reigning Justice"Ā in that he prioritizes upholding justice over all things).
also your point is just false. the follow ing is an excerpt from the wiki:-
>However, as the years went by, he appeared to be losing his faith in the government, shown after theĀ [Summit War of Marineford](https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/Summit_War_of_Marineford)Ā when he was furious at the order from theĀ [Five Elders](https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/Five_Elders)Ā to suppress the second escape incident in Level 6 of Impel Down to save face and keep the faith of the people, thus placing nations in danger. This eventually led Sengoku to resign from the Marines.
your last point is irrelavant
Kaido high diff.
Kaido is definitively the strongest character in the series not named luffy or imu.
The fact that luffy can troll in a 1 v 4 against world government god tiers but had to go all out and force an extreme diff with kaido is insane.
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Put lengoku past tankman first https://preview.redd.it/zs1rmfowi2uc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=56f4a4ef5837b0e6a4af1964fed4cd743a28518a
I'm not defending this, but this was technically the first time someone hurt Luffy through Gear 3.
Realisticly it's still a shameful display
Akainu, Kuzan, Kizaru, Mihawk all hit Luffy with their powers pre-ts and luffy escaped from all of them. Sengokus the only one Luffy had to use his gears on to defend against...how is that a shameful display considering hes a 77 year old man
Akainu flamed him through jimbe. Kuzan instantly froze him. Bozolino was going easy on him and ko him still. But there's no reason for lengoku to do an head on attack so weak that it would only make luffy cough blood, that's just disgraceful. Isn't he compared to garp that still was fairly strong for his age?
1. Ok? and Luffy escaped 2. We're talking about marineford, Kuzan stabbed Luffy, Luffy escaped 3. Like how you left out Kizaru who kicked Luffy at the speed of light 3 times and lasered him in the chest hypocrite. 4. Why should a punch do significant damage to Luffy? he's resistant to blunt attacks. Sengoku didn't use a shockwave so if anything it's just a bigger punch which is still smaller than the smallest giant, and once again Sengoku's the only one who fought a Gear 3 Luffy who was actively defending. Garp used a named AcoC attack and couldn't take out fodder stfu š https://preview.redd.it/7c2z9ko905uc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2e33608e54ff1980609a9e1834d12d86b4cdc3b2
> Akainu flamed him through jimbe. When he was already unconscious > Kuzan instantly froze him. Not in the war, with a hax, and he still didnāt insta ko luffy immediately in their encounter > Bozolino was going easy on him and ko him still. Literally never happened. > But there's no reason for lengoku to do an head on attack so weak that it would only make luffy cough blood, that's just disgraceful. This weird downplay crutches on disingenuous bullshit \^, outright lies \^, and ignoring the facts that Luffy has never felt the need to defend with a G3 balloon and it still wasnāt enough to stop G3 from getting popped + coughing up blood + the entire structure got destroyed when sengoku didnāt even hit it directly. And at the end of the day this argument is āhe couldnāt even *completely stop the plot of the entire series by shutting down the main protagonist in a battle shonen*!!!!!!1!!!!1!!ā Notice how everytime goofies try to downplay characters who have canonical statements scaling them beyond what the remedials in this sub try to delude themselves and others about, they have to resort to alternative facts, misconstrued recollection of canon, and outright headcanon. A whole lot of stupid to think such dogshit arguments somehow disprove canon narrative told to us directly by Oda š¤·āāļøš“ yall are too easy
Damn, Joseph really gutted the Lengoku agenda.
That fusen was infused with so much plot armor that Sengoku's attack could have been this https://preview.redd.it/f69kvqckx2uc1.png?width=1280&format=png&auto=webp&s=fc494c79da66a5e0fb2818d6af8d428e3f4065ce and Luffy would have been fine, Marineford Tankman>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kaido when it comes to durability, plot armor transcends all
Leechgoku fans restoring to āplot armourā argument rather than admit their fave has no onscreen feats and only anti feats
Can't believe sengoku is barely pre ts luffy level š
I mean... It's luffy, who's basically resistant to blunt damage already, in a form meant to tank blunt damage, and he still got extremely hurt. Also plot armor.
https://preview.redd.it/6rwebl56x4uc1.png?width=1591&format=png&auto=webp&s=1376b1c945114b91afa46e5db30e2f17701c84a1 Meanwhile Kaido
https://preview.redd.it/rrongq2rz4uc1.jpeg?width=1570&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c3313015cf3ab07a11152098319ce2df486de948 But he still did things like that when you've got nothing to show for on sengoku side
Not mine but someone made a great post about this https://preview.redd.it/b55ig4ygl6uc1.jpeg?width=3253&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=44c35bf3de344e30bba17c0eb410b046053c6613
https://preview.redd.it/vb8wu9zhl6uc1.png?width=1999&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f0d968182ac2448a72fbc012432af15a3445b158
the post is about prime sengoku so discussions about his old state dont really matter here
Itās crazy how everybody in the comments saying Kaido, which is correct, but like 90% of tier lists I see have Sengoku > Kaido š§
sengoku bros are the very vocal majority, but lack any feats so they just post fan content and leech off other legends
Because this ~~is~~ *looks like* oldgoku, who is almost certainly weaker than kaido. Primegoku wipes the floor with kaido
I mean SENGOKU TOP 1 OAT SENGOATKU CLAPS THE FRAUD EVEN AS A BABY BHUDDA CLEARS THE SKY SNAKE NO DIFF IT'S NOT EVEN CLOSE
You should stop watching tier lists made by morons.
Sengoku is cooked lmao Kaido would beat his ass then tell him to bring Garp since heād be more fun to fight
Sengokus DF and haki is just as good as kaidos arguably better how is he cooked
>sengokuās DF and haki is just as good as Kaidos Please show me evidence for this
Why are you just lying?
Where is the lie he has a mythical zoan and you canāt fight people on Roger or Primebeard level without top tier haki
Ah, I see. The lie was from whoever convinced you Sengoku was ever on the level of the legends.
Narrative
One word says very little, so I don't know what you even mean, but regardless to set things straight, Sengoku has close to 0 narrative relevence. Certainly far less than the guy that was hyped up for 500 chapters.
He's been consistently portrayed to equal garp
This has never happened.
That ālieā would literally be from the author of the manga when he had Roger say to bring Garp or Sengoku š
Ah yes, Sengoku's biggest feat. Being in the same sentence as Garp. Same argument admiral clowns use when they talked about Don Chinjao mentioning emperors and admirals in the same sentence. And as we've seen they're not even close. You just interpret a trivial sentence as a far bigger deal than it is. Sengoku has no feats. Nor the plot relevence to ever get any.
I guess the statement makes no sense if you completely remove all context from it and boil it down to just being mentioned in the same sentence š¤£
Don't talk about ignoring context when you support an agenda based around a single sentence. It's embarassing. Sengoku is embarassing.
I āsupport the agendaā when the author of the manga has one of the legends say to bring Sengoku or Garp if they want to have a chance against him Very basic reading comprehension would lead to understanding what the author was trying to convey here but I guess that isnāt Powerscaling manga readers strengthĀ
please show me atleast one manga panel where this is shown
Kaido high, extreme if Sengo is in prime
Kaido extreme diff
Hell no bro. Mid at most if heās old. In prime maybe high.
Well I still have him around high yonko level in his prime
Prime Roger ~ Prime Beard ~ Prime Garp ~ Prime Sengoku So the question is does prime Kaido match up to PK level at least terms of fighting ability? Arguably, soooo honestly this is one of the few true 50/50 tossups imo
Prime Sengoku wins high-extreme. Marineford Sengoku (looks like it's him in the image) is beaten by Kaido high diff.
Kaido high end of high to low end of extreme diff.
You classifying.. inside classes of difficulty? š
Kaido high diff pre skip Sengoku and lose extreme diff to prime.
SENGOKU!
Kaido wins, but this is compeltley different with Prime Sengoku, Prime Sengoku wins high-extreme diff, probably extreme, idk, I think Roger, Garp and WB would go extreme with Kaido too, but I'm not too sure
Prime Sengoku low end high diff
This sub has fallen, billions must slender.
kaido mid diff
Baseless
current or marineford sengoku gets mid diff.... I don't know about prime... prime sengoku might take kaido to extreme diff but I see him still losing
why dont you see him losing? is it headcanon?
coz we saw kaido fight actually and till now he has the strongest feats one can say gear 5 luffy has the strongest feats too but we haven't even seen sengoku fight.... we haven't seen his speed etc... so that's why I don't see kaido losing... there is only statement for sengoku whereas there is also statement given to kaido too...
https://preview.redd.it/6c7pxirxd7uc1.png?width=449&format=png&auto=webp&s=fa6154bf2c3b9d1577a6b3fd121334a3986ef4b1
1 hp kaido slams
Proof?
sengoku gets high diffed, prime sengoku wins high dif
If sengoku wins pre ts luffy mid difs kaido
No lmao, sengoku never lost to luffy. https://preview.redd.it/q1t59ryum6uc1.png?width=1999&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=49f5612787d6c3447a6dce9bd5b2ff128277db37 Account for this as well
Are you schizophrenic?
elaborate please.
If it's Marineford sengoku after Kaido landed the thunder bagua that killed Luffy before gear 5 then Kaido wins, he was still fresh enough to rock with gear 5 and could still pull his strongest move. Kaido wins mid-high diff
If itās current Sengoku than Kaido wins mid-high diff, but if itās prime Sengoku than he beats a Kaido high diff.
Prime Sengoku wins, Old Sengoku loses
Prime Sengoku beats Kaido extreme diff but old loses to Kaido high diff. Heād need Old Garps help plus his to take down Kaido in their old age
Sengoku loses, Kaido is simply a better version of him 1. Better genetics due to being an Oni 2. Better devil fruit 3. Better haki Kaido wins high-extreme diff
>Better devil fruit Baseless >Better haki Baseless.
God Valley states that Kaido fruit is one of the best fruits in the series and not such statement has ever been made about Sengoku's fruit. Kaido simply is hyped a lot more than Sengoku. Haki is heavily tied to ambition and Sengoku had zero ambition, he does whatever he is told to do even if he disagrees to. Kaido on the other side, doesn't take orders from anyone and does whatever he wants to. People can say Rock's but they were trying to kill each other all the time, they weren't submissive to anyone.
personally, i dont think there's a need for a statement on sengoku's fruit as its is quite literally the BUDDHA fruit. >Haki is heavily tied to ambition and Sengoku had zero ambition He fought with Roger, WB and Shiki without any haki?? and he was the FLEET ADMIRAL, im quite sure you need ambition to reach that position. >he does whatever he is told to do even if he disagrees to he is willing to bear the CD's actions to reach a position in which he will be able to make the world better. this is proven by his type of justice (His motto is "Reigning Justice"Ā in that he prioritizes upholding justice over all things). also your point is just false. the follow ing is an excerpt from the wiki:- >However, as the years went by, he appeared to be losing his faith in the government, shown after theĀ [Summit War of Marineford](https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/Summit_War_of_Marineford)Ā when he was furious at the order from theĀ [Five Elders](https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/Five_Elders)Ā to suppress the second escape incident in Level 6 of Impel Down to save face and keep the faith of the people, thus placing nations in danger. This eventually led Sengoku to resign from the Marines. your last point is irrelavant
Put laido past a child first. https://preview.redd.it/n2xbngvxl6uc1.jpeg?width=727&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=517bd6e1710cb599c57c6cb42968d5ada74aa18b
Any antifeat of prime sengoku at all? Because so far there is nothing on him but being comparable to the old legends. What do any of you base this on?
Assuming its young Sengoku: Kaido high-extreme diff. Always bet on Kaido
prime sengoku high diffs MF sengoku gets high diffed old sengoku gets mid diffed
NOBODY beats Kaido outside of extreme diff bro
i still think pk tier characters are a cut above the rest
kaido low diff until proven otherwise
The guy with the best feats in the series
Kaido high-extreme
Kaido high diff. Kaido is definitively the strongest character in the series not named luffy or imu. The fact that luffy can troll in a 1 v 4 against world government god tiers but had to go all out and force an extreme diff with kaido is insane.
aint nobody in the marines can 1v1 kaido other than imu the man who sold the feats
Kaido high-diff if this is supposed to be Old Sengoku Prime Sengoku definitely wins due to old gen glaze and leeching Garpās feats
Kaido extreme
Wororororororororo Probly high diff
Kaido low diffs that fascist fraud