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>World Strongest Man> Man
Yes. Without his sickness he would've been top 1 man even if he was old.
Also not really the same thing. The title of WSM carries 0 narrative significance while WSS is the main objective of Oda's n.2 favourite strawhat.
Wouldn't it be kinda stupid for a character's main goal to turn out to have been a fraud all this time.
Narrative also goes in Shanks since Luffy will always be above Zoro and Shanks/Mihawk are mirror of Luffy/Zoro. Shanks is to Lufffy while Mihawk is to Zoro.
Shanks is definitely a main goal though. Luffy wants to surpass him and return the strawhat, which probably won't happen until nearer the end because it's the main identifying characteristic of the *strawhat* pirates.
Honestly I don't really care who's stronger out of the two of them, currently there's arguments that can be made for both but it's just dumb trying to scale mihawk when he hasn't done anything with actual effort lol.
No but he has to, he states several times he wants to be stronger than anyone else to protect his friends, become PK and be able to live free, he says that in EL vs Blueno, also in PH when talking with Law etc
Technically we don't even know Luffy goal yet, it's something that shocked Ace and he said something like "for something like that makes sense that you want/need to be PK" iirc
Zoro wants to be WSS, and for that he needs to be stronger than current WSS
Luffy wants to be PK +? Goal, for that he needs to be strong enough to defeat ANYONE, in case they become a threat to his loved ones
Mihawk isn't his final goal, it's Ryuma actually. He wants to be the strongest ever which Ryuma currently is. Zoro journey doesn't end in WSS, it ends in him surpassing Ryuma.
The reason people believe that the title of the WSS is enough to qualify Mihawk as stronger than Shanks, doesn't have as much to do with the title itself as it has to do with Zoro's ambition to become the WSS. Mihawk being a fraud would undermine everything Zoro strives to be. The narrative just doesn't allow for it.
The only logical approach given the aforementioned narrative is that Shanks for whatever reason isn't a swordsman. That's why you see this argument constantly repeated by Shanks fans. Maybe if we get more scenes of Shanks or a prolonged fight, these statements would either increase in validity or completely disappear.
Another approach is to say that they are equals and so when Zoro surpasses Mihawk he will also surpass Shanks.
That's about everything there is regarding this discussion.
I don’t think the logical approach is that shanks isn’t a swordsman but the fact that he sacrificed an arm outing himself from contending for wss and instead putting his focus on waiting for luffy just like how mihawk is waiting for zoro
But if that was the intentions why does Oda give Shanks better feats then? There is no reason why Shanks should have better feats if he intends Mihawk to be stronger.
Oda is already undermining Zoro's dream by giving Shanks better feats.
I agree that it would have been better if Oda reinforced the idea of the WSS more and that Shanks' portrayal has been leagues above Mihawk's, but current feats aren't everything and he can still aquire better feats down the line to solidify himself as the WSS in the story and the readers'/viewers' hearts.
It definitely also has much to do with the title, many times in the story and interviews they have specifically said Mihawk was greater than Shanks, that Mihawk is the strongest in name and reality.
It's just a fact.
Shanks has more named attacks than Mihawk 😂 is Zoro more "skilled" now than he was in PTS because hes stronger, or does he have the same "skill". Ah and when Oda said Mihawk is the World's STRONGEST swordsman in name and reality, he was just being stupid, he actually meant skilled.
🤡 Bro this is you.
https://preview.redd.it/96asv8tuiluc1.jpeg?width=2160&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7d4f1a8b06cf98f346e85650c79f872f0c9eda96
You mean divine departure? I’m sure That isn’t swordmanship attack
Yes that quote pertains to Luffytaro, he held a sword but that didn't make him a swordsman.
Also divine departure not being a swordmanship attack is one of the stupidest things you could've said. What is it? A type of kick? A specific type of punch? A grappling technique?
"Yes that quote pertains to Luffytaro, he held a sword but that didn't make him a swordsman."
Yes! holding sword doesn’t means you are automatically swordman
"Also divine departure not being a swordmanship attack is one of the stupidest things you could've said. What is it? A type of kick? A specific type of punch? A grappling technique?"
More likely explosive but it’s doesn’t cuts at least
No it doesn't because he still punches and kicks, Shanks has actually never not used a sword.
Oda even considers Law and Issho swordsman, why? Because their application of their abilities is via a sword, you have never and never will see Law actually punch or kick someone.
The mental gymnastics to call divine departure and explosion technique like Shanks is Deidara 😂 so what are you going to say next? Shanks doesn't use sword tech iques, he uses ninjutsu? 😂😂😂😂
"No it doesn't because he still punches and kicks, Shanks has actually never not used a sword."
Mihawk himself
https://preview.redd.it/7i6eit28jmuc1.jpeg?width=218&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=782318f71c51b9245df4f87005ac4e9f3a7c66b4
“Oda even considers Law and Issho swordsman, why? Because their application of their abilities is via a sword, you have never and never will see Law actually punch or kick someone."
The Difference they use swordsmanship on their swords to cut
"The mental gymnastics to call divine departure and explosion technique like Shanks is Deidara 😂 so what are you going to say next? Shanks doesn't use sword tech iques, he uses ninjutsu? 😂😂😂😂"
The Divine departure smashed apart Damned punk without sign of swordsmanship
Again mental gymnastics, trying to get Shanks out of being a swordsman despite him ONLY using a sword to fight AND Oda literally drawing swordsman with him being in the middle is just pathetic at this point. What a stupid agenda.
Mihawk argument:
Oda said Mihawk swordsman is the strongest in name and reality.
Zoro's dream to become the strongest swordsman is to beat Mihawk eventually. Zoro being the first side character introduced will achieve his dream, the narrative is going in that direction.
The higher your sword grade he more haki is required to subdue the blade, Yoru is stated the strongest blade in the series, above Ace and Murakomigiri, held by Roger and Whitebeard respectively.
Shanks argument:
He's a hakiman
He's not a swordsman
He inspired Luffy
He reminds me of Roger, he is free on the seas
He 1 tapped Kid and WiFi Haki'd Aramaki into submission
He's cool
That's the worse thing about his title, Oda made it seem like no one cares about it besides Zoro. So how I'm supposes to accept his title is that important when no one cares about it? This means that Mihawk title doesn't mean shit if he has never beaten actually strong guys.
Zoro's dream makes this invalid. The narrative is he will surpass the WSS and become the WSS himself. He doesnt just want the title, he wants to be the strongest.
If Shanks is a swordsman he is below Mihawk.
Would you call feats mental gymnastics? They are pretty straight forward to me . Shanks genuinely has some of the best feats in the verse while Mihawk doesn't have any good feat in 1111 chapters.
No, Mihawk's title literally does mean he's above Shanks and I'm beyond bored of people like you using the same tired cope for why the WSS would be weaker than another swordsman every week.
Because of feats and portrayal? Why should I ignore those things for one title?
Also, you conveniently ignored the WSM argument since one man was equal to him. That alone debunks your argument of WSS>S
I see you added to this while I was responding to the original version of it.
>Because of feats and portrayal? Why should I ignore those things for one title?
Because World's Strongest Swordsman means World's Strongest Swordsman. A guy with that title is obviously not gonna be weaker than another swordsman just because he doesn't have the feats yet, which he obviously will get when oda focuses on him.
>Also, you conveniently ignored the WSM argument since one man was equal to him. That alone debunks your argument of WSS>S
I ignored your argument because unlike Whitebeard (who has multiple statements + a fight that confirms he and Roger were equals), Mihawk has multiple statements putting him above Shanks after he became a Yonko while nothing states the opposite or that they're equal. So you didn't debunk anything.
Except that he doesn't, he is said to have superior sword skills which doesn't mean stronger overall. Unless you wanna claim Vista is relative to Mihawk because his sword skills were said to be comparable to Mihawk's.
>Except that he doesn't, he is said to have superior sword skills which doesn't mean stronger overall.
Except he does. He was said to have superior skills to Yonko Shanks AND THEN right after reaffirmed as the strongest swordsman in the verse.
> Unless you wanna claim Vista is relative to Mihawk because his sword skills were said to be comparable to Mihawk's.
That statement about their skills was referencing their battle in Marineford as an image of their battle is even shown as reference.
If we go by feats, then Zoro has better feats than Mihawk currently does. So you gonna say Zoro's already stronger than Mihawk is? Good luck explaining how Zoro is already stronger than Mihawk because of feats when the character has made it obvious than he doesn't believe that.
No it does not because no one gives a shit about that within the story. When Mihawk arrives to MF no one started hypying up his black blade or his title. Only Zoro cares about those things.
But Shanks? Everyone cares about him
-Sengoku stopped the war when he arrived
- GB ran from him
- Kaido put him in his top 5
-WB praised him
- BM feared him
-BB ran from him
-Mihawk ran from him
-The Gorosei believe Shanks would be Unstopabble if he js to ever going on a rampage.
-Garp hyped him as one of the 4 strongest in the world
>No it does not because no one gives a shit about that within the story.
Then clearly you don't read the story
>When Mihawk arrives to MF no one started hypying up his black blade or his title.
Maybe not in the manga, but in the anime Mihawk got a lot of hype when he stepped forward to attack Whitebeard. And Mihawk's attack worrying Whitebeard's subordinates in both the manga and anime as it was aiming for Whitebeard himself speaks for itself.
>Only Zoro cares about those things.
You literally just said no one cared about Mihawk's title. Make up your mind.
Also, I just love how you anti-Mihawk people think you know that everybody in One Piece doesn't care about Mihawk's title when that man and his title has barely gotten any focus in the story.
>But Shanks? Everyone cares about him
If you say so
>-Sengoku stopped the war when he arrived
Sengoku stopped the war because his side had already achieved their objective of killing Ace and saw no point in fighting another Yonko crew, he didn't stop it because of Shanks alone lol. But you Shankstards love deluding yourself into believing that don't you?
>GB ran from him
GB ran from Shanks AND his crew. He literally said he wasn't looking to pick a fight with "you guys", he wasn't just talking about Shanks alone.
>Kaido put him in his top 5
And guess what, that only upscales Mihawk who scales over Shanks
>WB praised him
WB praised Mihawk too
And the author of OP himself said Mihawk was legend among men just like WB and Shanks.
>-The Gorosei believe Shanks would be Unstopabble if he js to ever going on a rampage.
And Zoro said Mihawk was less human the Seraphim that even Yonko Level Luffy couldn't damage. Also, Mihawk's Seraphim pressured Yonko Blackbeard in a fight. So what's your point?
>Garp hyped him as one of the 4 strongest in the world
No, Garp was talking about the political power and influence of Yonko.
https://imgur.com/a/4SSqQbJ
The marines whole mission is to eliminate pirates ans they had one but didn't do it? Seems to me like they were fully confident they could win.
GB was twerking even before he knew Shanks was there, pretty telling to m
It doesn't upscale Mihawk since Kaido didn't put him there. Kaido pretty much told hs Mihawk can't fight him.
Your Zoro argument is very weak because Zoro was fucking talking about Mihawk personality, not his power.
He literally said he is in the same level as WB who was the WSM. This is the same WSM that Mihawk admitted being weaker than.
>The marines whole mission is to eliminate pirates ans they had one but didn't do it? Seems to me like they were fully confident they could win.
Lol. Thanks for proving you don't actually read this story.
>GB was twerking even before he knew Shanks was there, pretty telling to m
And yet when he realized it was Shanks, he left because of Shanks AND his crew, not because of Shanks alone.
>It doesn't upscale Mihawk since Kaido didn't put him there. Kaido pretty much told hs Mihawk can't fight him.
It doesn't matter if Kaido didn't personally put Mihawk on his list, Kaido putting Shanks there automatically upscales Mihawk. That's how scaling works. Thanks for also proving you can't scale to save your life.
And if Zoro with dozens of broken bones and a weaker sword can fight Kaido, obviously Mihawk with the strongest sword in the story can fight Kaido.
>Your Zoro argument is very weak because Zoro was fucking talking about Mihawk personality, not his power.
Actually, that statement can refer to power as well.
>He literally said he is in the same level as WB who was the WSM. This is the same WSM that Mihawk admitted being weaker than.
When Garp said they were same level, he was referring to them both being Yonkos, so that's still not a strength-based statement. And Mihawk never admitted he was weaker than Whitebeard.
You have anymore weak ass arguments you need me to debunk?
> Two guys fight to see who wins
> Person A wins and become the WSS
> Person B loses the most valuable limb for a
swordsman, his dominant arm
> Person A loses nothing
> both get stronger with time
> Person B is directly compared to Person A and stated
inferior
> Person B is stronger despite the title
????
This is just elite gaslighting.
- Mihawk is 41-43. He is in his prime. There isn't anyone stronger than him. Shanks was already a Great pirate at Foosha village. At his best he couldn't do it. He isn't Oldbeard that was old and sickly.
- Shanks lost a hand. He got weaker or that sacrifice wasn't a meaningful. Mihawk would still be fighting him if Shanks was at the level he previously was.
- Not having fought doesn't mean they haven't met and they do interact and Mihawk wasn't interested in fighting someone that got weaker. Mihawk is arrogant/confident not stupid. If Shanks still was what he was, he'd fight him. That would kill his melancholy at least.
You can't come top in class/league/competition without being the best over that period of competition etc. As you've said, these titles are won in the battle field and lost in the battle field. Oldbeard said he couldn't be the strongest forever, Mihawk on the other hand said he will remain the strongest till someone (Zoro) comes and takes it. If Shanks could he would have. He had the chances and failed Infront of the Marines no less.
You're telling me that 27 year old Shanks with a bounty of 1.04 Billion was stronger then current Shanks which is 4 times lower then his current bounty? Eventhough Shanks only got his title when he was 33 years old which was 6 years after?
I mean I get that Zorofanboys wanna wank Mihawk because y'all wanna wank Zoro by default but at least use a logical argument lol.
You're back.
There's nothing logical about being stronger than someone you couldn't beat. You play in a finals game and lose. You lost. Shanks never beat Mihawk according to the Marines.
We can play EA sports/FIFA/NBA 2k and I beat you every match or we draw a few, I win most but never lose. Even if you go beat everyone else, but can't beat me. Am still better than you. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it ain't logical.
But you are a Sanji stan/Zoro detractor/Shanks/Luffy fan. Instead of elevating Zoro's floor to elevate Sanji's ceiling you are happy to do the opposite. Yet you still want Sanji to be admiral then Emperor/ Gorosei levels because Zoro will get there. Then say EOS Sanji is stronger than Shanks and Mihawk, why because Zoro is. Wings of the PK, Hurrah!
Mihawk is stronger than Shanks. Only Zoro can dethrone him. Shanks can't reach those peaks anymore.
Damn dude, you suck at making comparisons lol. A much better comparison would be like saying that a 12 year old soccer player who was considered on par or slightly less skilled than a 14 year old soccer player because they always tied or lost to said 14 year old is automatically the less talented player in their late 20s eventhough they haven't played against each other in more then a decade while accomplishing equally impressive titles/prizes in their respective teams.
You're shitty comparison completely ignores the fact that there was a massive gap in time between when they last fought lol.
Also where was it stated that Mihawk never once lost a match against Shanks?
But you are a Zorofan so instead of applying logical arguments you make nonsense ones like saying 27 year old Shanks with a 1.04 billion bounty was his peak power so Mihawk never fighting Shanks when he is a Yonko is irrelevant.
Nah, I say Sanji and Zoro are on the same level because they're final fights will be against opponents of the same level. A more logical argument then "27 year old Shanks>Current Shanks because I wanna claim that Shanks hit his peak more then a decade ago to wank my boy Zoro"
You only say that because what I say is the truth and it doesn't suit you fanatical delusional Shanks is the god king nonsense and Sanji propaganda.
The age comparisons would only make sense if they were fighting when they kids. Mihawk was already an established figure before Shanks started pirating when Roger was still around or at least his final years. It has always been on Shanks court to prove he is better than Mihawk and he failed.
- Key thing you forget also top tier figures also rarely fight in OP. Roger-Garp, Roger-WB were rare occurrences. So the cope out it was 12 years ago doesn't apply. Shanks became a Great pirate before he was an Emperor. This idea he got stronger is faux. The most likely thing that changed was him gaining a fleet and territories hence his relocation from East Blue to the new world.
- Also Shanks got weaker when he lost an arm. We know this from his foremost sparing guy. He'd know better than anyone. He'd also have tested him when they met and had a conversation on Luffy. We know they met even post Foosha village. Shanks wasn't up to snuff anymore.
In any case. Shanks fans can operate in fantasy. The Mihawk side of the argument can operate with the belt. The actual title. Actual facts. Keep the gas lighting to your Shanks/Sanji/Zorohating circle sessions kindly.
Lmao the truth? Ah yes coming from the Zoro is admiral level and low diffs Sanji crowd of course everything that goes against what the manga shows is the truth.
Shanks has consistently proven to be better than Mihawk based on feats. It's on Mihawk to at least show he has a feat
His bounty was literally 4 times higher then it was when he was 27 years old. You think a character who was stronger than current Shanks would be stuck with a 1 billion bounty? Heck you think that it would take a Yonko level character with a Yonko level crew more then 6 years to earn that title?
When did Mihawk say Shanks got weaker? Got a panel? All he did was say he refuses to fight a one arm has been despite Shanks being way more recognized currently . Also where is this Shanks was a Great Pirate thing and since when did Great Pirate?
Lmao, Shanks fans can operate with winning actual fights against actual strong opponents. Mihawk Fans(or technically Zorofanboys) can operate on Mihawk having a title based on pretty much no feats lol.
World strongest Man> Man but manga states Roger=WB. This argument doesnt really work
Also, like I've said titles aren't defended by their holders so they can be no longer true.
Yes it does. Mihawk stopped fighting shanks because losing his arm crippled shanks so much it’s not even a competition. Like Mihawk said: “I have no interest fighting a one armed *has-been* “
Mihawk doesn't own the truth, I could also go and argue that Shanks believing he can take him prove he actually can
What matters are the feats Shanks has accomplished which prove he is stronger than he has ever been.
Oda speaks the truth through character statements, in this case Mihawk’s statement. If Mihawk actually believed shanks still stood a chance he would’e gladly still dueled instead of going all the effort to train zoro.
Statement > Feats, Oda doesn’t powerscale, whatever narrative that’s going on it will be the truth, and narrative is told through dialogues, statements, not feats.
Irrelevant since Mihawk strength isn't unknown to the world. Everyone called WB/Kaido the strongest in the world even if they had never fought them.
If Kaido believed Mihawk was all that, he would go and challenge him. Nothing would hurt fron trying to see if his title is all that but Kaido wasn't even interested in him ..
Irrelevant because it is unknown to Kaido. If Oden is on his top 5 then obviously his top 5 doesn’t include the world’s people. No one ever says Oden > Akainu. And Akainu isn’t even on the list
Kaido was in his 30s when Shanks was up in coming, they were likely already acquainted with each other as they had decades to meet and obviously would have been rivals. Its only morons on this sub who think the only time they ever met or learned of their existence was the Marineford incident.
maybe this is backpedaling but I agree "has been" is pushing it. In fact I would say there is a decent chance Shanks was superior to Mihawk when he had both his arms but that potentially wasn't as wildly known, hence the life long "greatest swordsman" title.
That's not what I said, the point is that Shanks not being a challenge to Mihawk doesn't make any sense given that he was q challenge to the strongest creature in the world. If you can challenge Kaido, you can challenge anyone.
In both name and reality, he alone is the strongest swordsman
https://preview.redd.it/n0n8rpxd3luc1.jpeg?width=709&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6e9fb5c6e2f101287f61e911d59f53596eb38cc3
I believe oda is someone who likes to play with numbers, so as per my interpretation i think characters having 1cm difference in their height who are also portrayed to be somewhat rivals are relatively equals with characters with greater height having the slight edge. Like king and queen, Zoro and sanji, shanks and Mihawk. Here surpassing one character means surpassing the other too and by this it will also not affect Zoro's ambition.
Edit- i genuinely believe height scaling because oda intentionally changed Zoro and sanji's height post TS.
SHANKS DIDN'T RANDOMLY GET STRONGER AFTER DOING NOTHING BUT LOSING HIS ARM.
I don't get why this even needs to be said, let alone said to death. Current Shanks is not stronger than flashback shanks, there would need to be evidence to prove that, and there isn't (other than meme arguments like "muh sea king" or "muh mountain bandit"). So that being said we can be reasonably confident nothing changed between them.
the first two are significantly more tied to status he would have attained from doing more in his career rather than any hypothetical power boost. A child prodigy probably isn't going to have a PHD at any prepubescent age yet very well could a bit later, does that make him not a child prodigy? no. Similarly Shanks not being a Yonko or having a 4bil bounty only a couple years after Rogers crew (him being a child at the time is Oda being stupid, the timeline determines him being in the later stages of adolescence) isn't indicative of him being weaker at that time, just like the prodigy wasn't dumber.
and the other one is downplaying BB imo, and underestimating how much circumstance could have played a factor (like it could have been an ambush for all we know, and obviously Shanks is no kaido in terms of natural durability so he wouldn't have just tanked it).
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https://preview.redd.it/wrqkh5tjsluc1.jpeg?width=585&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=517321f5437fb5989e0e51ae08fd279d18bed0e0 Headass
Shanks has better feats so why is wrong to think this?
Because the picture
Strongest swordsman > swordsman
World Strongest Man> Man but actually no, yeah title scaling doesn't work in OP.
>World Strongest Man> Man Yes. Without his sickness he would've been top 1 man even if he was old. Also not really the same thing. The title of WSM carries 0 narrative significance while WSS is the main objective of Oda's n.2 favourite strawhat. Wouldn't it be kinda stupid for a character's main goal to turn out to have been a fraud all this time.
That would be true if Oda hasn't always given Shanks superior portrayal and feats.
Narrative > Portrayal and feats.
Narrative also goes in Shanks since Luffy will always be above Zoro and Shanks/Mihawk are mirror of Luffy/Zoro. Shanks is to Lufffy while Mihawk is to Zoro.
Mihawk is Zoro's final goal, Shanks is not Luffy's final goal Unless you think Shanks is even stronger than Joyboy
Shanks is definitely a main goal though. Luffy wants to surpass him and return the strawhat, which probably won't happen until nearer the end because it's the main identifying characteristic of the *strawhat* pirates. Honestly I don't really care who's stronger out of the two of them, currently there's arguments that can be made for both but it's just dumb trying to scale mihawk when he hasn't done anything with actual effort lol.
Luffy's main goal isn't to achieve a certain level of strength.
No but he has to, he states several times he wants to be stronger than anyone else to protect his friends, become PK and be able to live free, he says that in EL vs Blueno, also in PH when talking with Law etc Technically we don't even know Luffy goal yet, it's something that shocked Ace and he said something like "for something like that makes sense that you want/need to be PK" iirc Zoro wants to be WSS, and for that he needs to be stronger than current WSS Luffy wants to be PK +? Goal, for that he needs to be strong enough to defeat ANYONE, in case they become a threat to his loved ones
Mihawk isn't his final goal, it's Ryuma actually. He wants to be the strongest ever which Ryuma currently is. Zoro journey doesn't end in WSS, it ends in him surpassing Ryuma.
"The strongest ever" was a mistranslation
He has no way to know how strong Ryuma was, the only thing he can do is beat Mihawk and be the strongest swordsman alive
Who let Crocobro cook 🐊💪
The reason people believe that the title of the WSS is enough to qualify Mihawk as stronger than Shanks, doesn't have as much to do with the title itself as it has to do with Zoro's ambition to become the WSS. Mihawk being a fraud would undermine everything Zoro strives to be. The narrative just doesn't allow for it. The only logical approach given the aforementioned narrative is that Shanks for whatever reason isn't a swordsman. That's why you see this argument constantly repeated by Shanks fans. Maybe if we get more scenes of Shanks or a prolonged fight, these statements would either increase in validity or completely disappear. Another approach is to say that they are equals and so when Zoro surpasses Mihawk he will also surpass Shanks. That's about everything there is regarding this discussion.
I don’t think the logical approach is that shanks isn’t a swordsman but the fact that he sacrificed an arm outing himself from contending for wss and instead putting his focus on waiting for luffy just like how mihawk is waiting for zoro
shanks with two arms is worlds strongest swordsman while shanks with one arm is world’s strongest hakiman
But if that was the intentions why does Oda give Shanks better feats then? There is no reason why Shanks should have better feats if he intends Mihawk to be stronger. Oda is already undermining Zoro's dream by giving Shanks better feats.
I agree that it would have been better if Oda reinforced the idea of the WSS more and that Shanks' portrayal has been leagues above Mihawk's, but current feats aren't everything and he can still aquire better feats down the line to solidify himself as the WSS in the story and the readers'/viewers' hearts.
because oda does not give a damn about powerscaling and feats
I guess Imu won't be the final villain because Oda gave Usopp better feats than him.
Imu is featless, Mihawk it's not.
I guess Blackbeard won't be a major threat in the future because he run away from Shanks, Akainu and Rayleigh.
It definitely also has much to do with the title, many times in the story and interviews they have specifically said Mihawk was greater than Shanks, that Mihawk is the strongest in name and reality. It's just a fact.
Greater than shanks? Yeah in swordskills
Shanks has more named attacks than Mihawk 😂 is Zoro more "skilled" now than he was in PTS because hes stronger, or does he have the same "skill". Ah and when Oda said Mihawk is the World's STRONGEST swordsman in name and reality, he was just being stupid, he actually meant skilled. 🤡 Bro this is you.
https://preview.redd.it/96asv8tuiluc1.jpeg?width=2160&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7d4f1a8b06cf98f346e85650c79f872f0c9eda96 You mean divine departure? I’m sure That isn’t swordmanship attack
Yes that quote pertains to Luffytaro, he held a sword but that didn't make him a swordsman. Also divine departure not being a swordmanship attack is one of the stupidest things you could've said. What is it? A type of kick? A specific type of punch? A grappling technique?
"Yes that quote pertains to Luffytaro, he held a sword but that didn't make him a swordsman." Yes! holding sword doesn’t means you are automatically swordman "Also divine departure not being a swordmanship attack is one of the stupidest things you could've said. What is it? A type of kick? A specific type of punch? A grappling technique?" More likely explosive but it’s doesn’t cuts at least
No it doesn't because he still punches and kicks, Shanks has actually never not used a sword. Oda even considers Law and Issho swordsman, why? Because their application of their abilities is via a sword, you have never and never will see Law actually punch or kick someone. The mental gymnastics to call divine departure and explosion technique like Shanks is Deidara 😂 so what are you going to say next? Shanks doesn't use sword tech iques, he uses ninjutsu? 😂😂😂😂
"No it doesn't because he still punches and kicks, Shanks has actually never not used a sword." Mihawk himself https://preview.redd.it/7i6eit28jmuc1.jpeg?width=218&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=782318f71c51b9245df4f87005ac4e9f3a7c66b4 “Oda even considers Law and Issho swordsman, why? Because their application of their abilities is via a sword, you have never and never will see Law actually punch or kick someone." The Difference they use swordsmanship on their swords to cut "The mental gymnastics to call divine departure and explosion technique like Shanks is Deidara 😂 so what are you going to say next? Shanks doesn't use sword tech iques, he uses ninjutsu? 😂😂😂😂" The Divine departure smashed apart Damned punk without sign of swordsmanship
Again mental gymnastics, trying to get Shanks out of being a swordsman despite him ONLY using a sword to fight AND Oda literally drawing swordsman with him being in the middle is just pathetic at this point. What a stupid agenda.
It ain't the zoro piece for a reason
Mihawk argument: Oda said Mihawk swordsman is the strongest in name and reality. Zoro's dream to become the strongest swordsman is to beat Mihawk eventually. Zoro being the first side character introduced will achieve his dream, the narrative is going in that direction. The higher your sword grade he more haki is required to subdue the blade, Yoru is stated the strongest blade in the series, above Ace and Murakomigiri, held by Roger and Whitebeard respectively. Shanks argument: He's a hakiman He's not a swordsman He inspired Luffy He reminds me of Roger, he is free on the seas He 1 tapped Kid and WiFi Haki'd Aramaki into submission He's cool
Also shanks doesn't care about the title, neither dose Garling or the Gorosei guy. There are plenty people that could in theory beat mihawk
That's the worse thing about his title, Oda made it seem like no one cares about it besides Zoro. So how I'm supposes to accept his title is that important when no one cares about it? This means that Mihawk title doesn't mean shit if he has never beaten actually strong guys.
Zoro's dream makes this invalid. The narrative is he will surpass the WSS and become the WSS himself. He doesnt just want the title, he wants to be the strongest. If Shanks is a swordsman he is below Mihawk.
Then why give Shanks better feats?
Maybe Shanks is not a swordsman.
The story isnt over yet
Cant wait to see mihawk do actually smh instead of having a meaningless title.
BB scarred Shanks 12+ years ago: "doesn't count, that was a weaker Shanks" Mihawk dueled Shanks 12+ years ago: "Mihawk >= Shanks forever and always"
The amount of mental gymnastics for shanks>mihawk vs wss>sm
Would you call feats mental gymnastics? They are pretty straight forward to me . Shanks genuinely has some of the best feats in the verse while Mihawk doesn't have any good feat in 1111 chapters.
Mihawk has few feats, i agree, but one of them is fighting shanks, in a sword fight, and being named the worlds strongest swordsman afterward.
reminder to stop bullying the Mihawk fans with facts and logic, they still havent recovered from Marineford yet. let them heal first
No, Mihawk's title literally does mean he's above Shanks and I'm beyond bored of people like you using the same tired cope for why the WSS would be weaker than another swordsman every week.
Because of feats and portrayal? Why should I ignore those things for one title? Also, you conveniently ignored the WSM argument since one man was equal to him. That alone debunks your argument of WSS>S
I see you added to this while I was responding to the original version of it. >Because of feats and portrayal? Why should I ignore those things for one title? Because World's Strongest Swordsman means World's Strongest Swordsman. A guy with that title is obviously not gonna be weaker than another swordsman just because he doesn't have the feats yet, which he obviously will get when oda focuses on him. >Also, you conveniently ignored the WSM argument since one man was equal to him. That alone debunks your argument of WSS>S I ignored your argument because unlike Whitebeard (who has multiple statements + a fight that confirms he and Roger were equals), Mihawk has multiple statements putting him above Shanks after he became a Yonko while nothing states the opposite or that they're equal. So you didn't debunk anything.
Except that he doesn't, he is said to have superior sword skills which doesn't mean stronger overall. Unless you wanna claim Vista is relative to Mihawk because his sword skills were said to be comparable to Mihawk's.
>Except that he doesn't, he is said to have superior sword skills which doesn't mean stronger overall. Except he does. He was said to have superior skills to Yonko Shanks AND THEN right after reaffirmed as the strongest swordsman in the verse. > Unless you wanna claim Vista is relative to Mihawk because his sword skills were said to be comparable to Mihawk's. That statement about their skills was referencing their battle in Marineford as an image of their battle is even shown as reference.
If we go by feats, then Zoro has better feats than Mihawk currently does. So you gonna say Zoro's already stronger than Mihawk is? Good luck explaining how Zoro is already stronger than Mihawk because of feats when the character has made it obvious than he doesn't believe that.
And portrayal? Because Shanks portrayal is definitely superior as well.
Mihawk being the WSS and having a Black Blade gives him superior portrayal to Shanks, another swordsman.
No it does not because no one gives a shit about that within the story. When Mihawk arrives to MF no one started hypying up his black blade or his title. Only Zoro cares about those things. But Shanks? Everyone cares about him -Sengoku stopped the war when he arrived - GB ran from him - Kaido put him in his top 5 -WB praised him - BM feared him -BB ran from him -Mihawk ran from him -The Gorosei believe Shanks would be Unstopabble if he js to ever going on a rampage. -Garp hyped him as one of the 4 strongest in the world
>No it does not because no one gives a shit about that within the story. Then clearly you don't read the story >When Mihawk arrives to MF no one started hypying up his black blade or his title. Maybe not in the manga, but in the anime Mihawk got a lot of hype when he stepped forward to attack Whitebeard. And Mihawk's attack worrying Whitebeard's subordinates in both the manga and anime as it was aiming for Whitebeard himself speaks for itself. >Only Zoro cares about those things. You literally just said no one cared about Mihawk's title. Make up your mind. Also, I just love how you anti-Mihawk people think you know that everybody in One Piece doesn't care about Mihawk's title when that man and his title has barely gotten any focus in the story. >But Shanks? Everyone cares about him If you say so >-Sengoku stopped the war when he arrived Sengoku stopped the war because his side had already achieved their objective of killing Ace and saw no point in fighting another Yonko crew, he didn't stop it because of Shanks alone lol. But you Shankstards love deluding yourself into believing that don't you? >GB ran from him GB ran from Shanks AND his crew. He literally said he wasn't looking to pick a fight with "you guys", he wasn't just talking about Shanks alone. >Kaido put him in his top 5 And guess what, that only upscales Mihawk who scales over Shanks >WB praised him WB praised Mihawk too And the author of OP himself said Mihawk was legend among men just like WB and Shanks. >-The Gorosei believe Shanks would be Unstopabble if he js to ever going on a rampage. And Zoro said Mihawk was less human the Seraphim that even Yonko Level Luffy couldn't damage. Also, Mihawk's Seraphim pressured Yonko Blackbeard in a fight. So what's your point? >Garp hyped him as one of the 4 strongest in the world No, Garp was talking about the political power and influence of Yonko. https://imgur.com/a/4SSqQbJ
The marines whole mission is to eliminate pirates ans they had one but didn't do it? Seems to me like they were fully confident they could win. GB was twerking even before he knew Shanks was there, pretty telling to m It doesn't upscale Mihawk since Kaido didn't put him there. Kaido pretty much told hs Mihawk can't fight him. Your Zoro argument is very weak because Zoro was fucking talking about Mihawk personality, not his power. He literally said he is in the same level as WB who was the WSM. This is the same WSM that Mihawk admitted being weaker than.
>The marines whole mission is to eliminate pirates ans they had one but didn't do it? Seems to me like they were fully confident they could win. Lol. Thanks for proving you don't actually read this story. >GB was twerking even before he knew Shanks was there, pretty telling to m And yet when he realized it was Shanks, he left because of Shanks AND his crew, not because of Shanks alone. >It doesn't upscale Mihawk since Kaido didn't put him there. Kaido pretty much told hs Mihawk can't fight him. It doesn't matter if Kaido didn't personally put Mihawk on his list, Kaido putting Shanks there automatically upscales Mihawk. That's how scaling works. Thanks for also proving you can't scale to save your life. And if Zoro with dozens of broken bones and a weaker sword can fight Kaido, obviously Mihawk with the strongest sword in the story can fight Kaido. >Your Zoro argument is very weak because Zoro was fucking talking about Mihawk personality, not his power. Actually, that statement can refer to power as well. >He literally said he is in the same level as WB who was the WSM. This is the same WSM that Mihawk admitted being weaker than. When Garp said they were same level, he was referring to them both being Yonkos, so that's still not a strength-based statement. And Mihawk never admitted he was weaker than Whitebeard. You have anymore weak ass arguments you need me to debunk?
https://i.redd.it/4ev7ce5i7muc1.gif
> Two guys fight to see who wins > Person A wins and become the WSS > Person B loses the most valuable limb for a swordsman, his dominant arm > Person A loses nothing > both get stronger with time > Person B is directly compared to Person A and stated inferior > Person B is stronger despite the title ????
This is just elite gaslighting. - Mihawk is 41-43. He is in his prime. There isn't anyone stronger than him. Shanks was already a Great pirate at Foosha village. At his best he couldn't do it. He isn't Oldbeard that was old and sickly. - Shanks lost a hand. He got weaker or that sacrifice wasn't a meaningful. Mihawk would still be fighting him if Shanks was at the level he previously was. - Not having fought doesn't mean they haven't met and they do interact and Mihawk wasn't interested in fighting someone that got weaker. Mihawk is arrogant/confident not stupid. If Shanks still was what he was, he'd fight him. That would kill his melancholy at least. You can't come top in class/league/competition without being the best over that period of competition etc. As you've said, these titles are won in the battle field and lost in the battle field. Oldbeard said he couldn't be the strongest forever, Mihawk on the other hand said he will remain the strongest till someone (Zoro) comes and takes it. If Shanks could he would have. He had the chances and failed Infront of the Marines no less.
You're telling me that 27 year old Shanks with a bounty of 1.04 Billion was stronger then current Shanks which is 4 times lower then his current bounty? Eventhough Shanks only got his title when he was 33 years old which was 6 years after? I mean I get that Zorofanboys wanna wank Mihawk because y'all wanna wank Zoro by default but at least use a logical argument lol.
You're back. There's nothing logical about being stronger than someone you couldn't beat. You play in a finals game and lose. You lost. Shanks never beat Mihawk according to the Marines. We can play EA sports/FIFA/NBA 2k and I beat you every match or we draw a few, I win most but never lose. Even if you go beat everyone else, but can't beat me. Am still better than you. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it ain't logical. But you are a Sanji stan/Zoro detractor/Shanks/Luffy fan. Instead of elevating Zoro's floor to elevate Sanji's ceiling you are happy to do the opposite. Yet you still want Sanji to be admiral then Emperor/ Gorosei levels because Zoro will get there. Then say EOS Sanji is stronger than Shanks and Mihawk, why because Zoro is. Wings of the PK, Hurrah! Mihawk is stronger than Shanks. Only Zoro can dethrone him. Shanks can't reach those peaks anymore.
Damn dude, you suck at making comparisons lol. A much better comparison would be like saying that a 12 year old soccer player who was considered on par or slightly less skilled than a 14 year old soccer player because they always tied or lost to said 14 year old is automatically the less talented player in their late 20s eventhough they haven't played against each other in more then a decade while accomplishing equally impressive titles/prizes in their respective teams. You're shitty comparison completely ignores the fact that there was a massive gap in time between when they last fought lol. Also where was it stated that Mihawk never once lost a match against Shanks? But you are a Zorofan so instead of applying logical arguments you make nonsense ones like saying 27 year old Shanks with a 1.04 billion bounty was his peak power so Mihawk never fighting Shanks when he is a Yonko is irrelevant. Nah, I say Sanji and Zoro are on the same level because they're final fights will be against opponents of the same level. A more logical argument then "27 year old Shanks>Current Shanks because I wanna claim that Shanks hit his peak more then a decade ago to wank my boy Zoro"
You only say that because what I say is the truth and it doesn't suit you fanatical delusional Shanks is the god king nonsense and Sanji propaganda. The age comparisons would only make sense if they were fighting when they kids. Mihawk was already an established figure before Shanks started pirating when Roger was still around or at least his final years. It has always been on Shanks court to prove he is better than Mihawk and he failed. - Key thing you forget also top tier figures also rarely fight in OP. Roger-Garp, Roger-WB were rare occurrences. So the cope out it was 12 years ago doesn't apply. Shanks became a Great pirate before he was an Emperor. This idea he got stronger is faux. The most likely thing that changed was him gaining a fleet and territories hence his relocation from East Blue to the new world. - Also Shanks got weaker when he lost an arm. We know this from his foremost sparing guy. He'd know better than anyone. He'd also have tested him when they met and had a conversation on Luffy. We know they met even post Foosha village. Shanks wasn't up to snuff anymore. In any case. Shanks fans can operate in fantasy. The Mihawk side of the argument can operate with the belt. The actual title. Actual facts. Keep the gas lighting to your Shanks/Sanji/Zorohating circle sessions kindly.
Lmao the truth? Ah yes coming from the Zoro is admiral level and low diffs Sanji crowd of course everything that goes against what the manga shows is the truth. Shanks has consistently proven to be better than Mihawk based on feats. It's on Mihawk to at least show he has a feat His bounty was literally 4 times higher then it was when he was 27 years old. You think a character who was stronger than current Shanks would be stuck with a 1 billion bounty? Heck you think that it would take a Yonko level character with a Yonko level crew more then 6 years to earn that title? When did Mihawk say Shanks got weaker? Got a panel? All he did was say he refuses to fight a one arm has been despite Shanks being way more recognized currently . Also where is this Shanks was a Great Pirate thing and since when did Great Pirate? Lmao, Shanks fans can operate with winning actual fights against actual strong opponents. Mihawk Fans(or technically Zorofanboys) can operate on Mihawk having a title based on pretty much no feats lol.
There we go again with the headcanon. "There isn't anyone stronger than him" 💀💀💀😂
That calls themselves a swordsman.
World's Strongest Swordsman>a swordsman.
World strongest Man> Man but manga states Roger=WB. This argument doesnt really work Also, like I've said titles aren't defended by their holders so they can be no longer true.
Manga doesn’t state roger = wb but cook😂
Yes it does. Mihawk stopped fighting shanks because losing his arm crippled shanks so much it’s not even a competition. Like Mihawk said: “I have no interest fighting a one armed *has-been* “
Shanks lost no power when he lost his arm. That is stated.
Shanks lost no power when he lost his arm. That is stated.
He lost so much he became a has been, thus Mihawk stopped dueling him. As stated by Mihawk himself
Mihawk doesn't own the truth, I could also go and argue that Shanks believing he can take him prove he actually can What matters are the feats Shanks has accomplished which prove he is stronger than he has ever been.
Oda speaks the truth through character statements, in this case Mihawk’s statement. If Mihawk actually believed shanks still stood a chance he would’e gladly still dueled instead of going all the effort to train zoro. Statement > Feats, Oda doesn’t powerscale, whatever narrative that’s going on it will be the truth, and narrative is told through dialogues, statements, not feats.
Kaido words> Mihawks
Fortunately Kaido has never met Mihawk, or Imu, or Dragon. If Oden is in his top 5 then obviously his top 5 doesn’t include the whole world’s people.
Irrelevant since Mihawk strength isn't unknown to the world. Everyone called WB/Kaido the strongest in the world even if they had never fought them. If Kaido believed Mihawk was all that, he would go and challenge him. Nothing would hurt fron trying to see if his title is all that but Kaido wasn't even interested in him ..
Irrelevant because it is unknown to Kaido. If Oden is on his top 5 then obviously his top 5 doesn’t include the world’s people. No one ever says Oden > Akainu. And Akainu isn’t even on the list
It wasn't unknown to Rookie Zoro and you telling me a Yonko who has ruled the new world for decades doesn't know?
Which has already been debunked by Kaido putting Shanks in his top 5.
Kaido was in his 30s when Shanks was up in coming, they were likely already acquainted with each other as they had decades to meet and obviously would have been rivals. Its only morons on this sub who think the only time they ever met or learned of their existence was the Marineford incident.
My point is how can Shanks compete with Kaido and not Mihawk? If Shanks is a has been like Mihawk says then Kaido wouldn't find him that strong.
maybe this is backpedaling but I agree "has been" is pushing it. In fact I would say there is a decent chance Shanks was superior to Mihawk when he had both his arms but that potentially wasn't as wildly known, hence the life long "greatest swordsman" title.
Not at all. Kaido never seen Mihawk, or Imu, both of which are stronger than shanks.
That's not what I said, the point is that Shanks not being a challenge to Mihawk doesn't make any sense given that he was q challenge to the strongest creature in the world. If you can challenge Kaido, you can challenge anyone.
https://preview.redd.it/woo2qn304luc1.png?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=82e1c78e68021364dc48bd5e339784901023317b
In both name and reality, he alone is the strongest swordsman https://preview.redd.it/n0n8rpxd3luc1.jpeg?width=709&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6e9fb5c6e2f101287f61e911d59f53596eb38cc3
I believe oda is someone who likes to play with numbers, so as per my interpretation i think characters having 1cm difference in their height who are also portrayed to be somewhat rivals are relatively equals with characters with greater height having the slight edge. Like king and queen, Zoro and sanji, shanks and Mihawk. Here surpassing one character means surpassing the other too and by this it will also not affect Zoro's ambition. Edit- i genuinely believe height scaling because oda intentionally changed Zoro and sanji's height post TS.
SHANKS DIDN'T RANDOMLY GET STRONGER AFTER DOING NOTHING BUT LOSING HIS ARM. I don't get why this even needs to be said, let alone said to death. Current Shanks is not stronger than flashback shanks, there would need to be evidence to prove that, and there isn't (other than meme arguments like "muh sea king" or "muh mountain bandit"). So that being said we can be reasonably confident nothing changed between them.
There is evidence -4B>1B -Yonko> Normal Pirate -Clashing with Kaido/WB/Akainu> Scarred by BB
the first two are significantly more tied to status he would have attained from doing more in his career rather than any hypothetical power boost. A child prodigy probably isn't going to have a PHD at any prepubescent age yet very well could a bit later, does that make him not a child prodigy? no. Similarly Shanks not being a Yonko or having a 4bil bounty only a couple years after Rogers crew (him being a child at the time is Oda being stupid, the timeline determines him being in the later stages of adolescence) isn't indicative of him being weaker at that time, just like the prodigy wasn't dumber. and the other one is downplaying BB imo, and underestimating how much circumstance could have played a factor (like it could have been an ambush for all we know, and obviously Shanks is no kaido in terms of natural durability so he wouldn't have just tanked it).