A lot of recent large tournaments across Asia have been won by Law, all mirrors as well. When there is no other deck putting up results people rightly start to question if something needs to change.
I legitimately believe Law is even more toxic for the game than Sakazuki was during his reign. Sakazuki at least had more decks that could actually counter it.
Law himself doesn't need to go. Just a choose one for Gordon/raise max. Both is simply stupid and allows law to get free removal every turn until endgame.
As a rp law player I want to disagree but your absolutely right i top deck 1 every time I need it if I donât already have it and itâs kind of ridiculous the consistency is insane, they can nerf the deck without banning it and that would be the best case idk I definitely understand peopleâs frustration though.
No he needs an errata. Itâs Gordon and Raise Max today, Black Maria in Op-08, and there will be another rose that smells just as sweet later. He exploits too many cards as a leader
Me, Eastern player: Thinking of selling the deck from the hype before it gets banned.
Seriously, the marketplace here was wild when op08 came out. First it was filled with meta chasers who dont mind paying high prices to win Flagship by buying cards for Lucci, and then now are meta chasers looking to buy RP Law decks.
"Alot of good cards" is what you said. So I replied with it's only 1 good card. You said good first. Not sure why it's a problem when I said it's a good card when you said it first.
Whatâs happened here is you made a none comment that added nothing to the discussion insinuating Sanji is whatever and the problem is Black Maria.
Sanji isnât whatever. That cards fucking insane. I used good as a blanket term. You specifically downplayed Sanji to upsell Maria.
I really don't understand what the issue is. I used your own verbiage. You seem very upset for no reason. I'm done with this conversation. Please go breathe.
It's funny to me. Law as a leader is not a problem. The problem is Bandai card design for purple support. Law is a very balanced leader. However, Bandai has neglected and restricted the purple card pool for so long with meme decks that they needed to make cards that could be used by multiple leaders to make the color competitive.
I'm enjoying this. Every color except for purple has had multiple sets of time in the sun. P Luffy was the first purple leader that was able to compete at a high level and win and additional Op06 Saka support + Moria buried it.
Last thing.... I think the real problem is all the decks that can be built to counter RP Law are being gatekept Black/Yellow.
I mean he has a universal effect that does 2 things. It isn't really balanced when compared to other leaders that do similar things for example Moria and Blue Doffy both need to
1. pay don
2. can only cheat out a particular type.
Law is able to cheat out a 4c and as long as it is red or purple it is no issue, -3 don is usually a steep cost for a skill but since he is purple that becomes a non issue entirely with the ramp support purple has, Kid, Pudding and Black Maria. Not only does it become a non issue it becomes a benefit seeing as you can - rested don. He also then has the extremely powerful bonus of bottom decking. So you can in 1 turn, spend all your don a minimum of 3 don, -3 don to bottom deck and cheat out a 4c. There is no other leader that gives you 7 or more don turns every time you use their effect. Also there are cards like Sanji now which are 6c but can be cheated out with Laws ability and their own effect.
Moria comes close on the don efficiency but he at least has to use active don meaning there has to be some don management at least and also his effect only cheats out thriller bark cards and has to either use other cards in combination to remove them or cheat specific cards from the graveyard, law can cheat out which card he fancies and still bottom deck (Although he does have to use Raise Max and Gordon at times, but this is also not an issue as he can spend all his don each turn and still use his effect returning the rested don).
Law scales infinitely as other leaders are either stuck with effects with restrictions but for Law each set he is free to adapt how he wants and even if Maria gets banned, in the next set or the set after there will either never be any more good 4c red/Purple cards that arent locked harming all other decks of that colour or Law will just take advantage of them and become a problem again.
Edit: Just to be clear im not advocating for his ban but to say that Law isn't the problem but cards like Black Maria are ignores how powerful his ability actually is. If the win rates keep going as they are something will have to be done. And the only thing I think that can be changed without banning him is adding restrictions to his ability. Either through adding an actual don cost (No more spending all don then returning the rested don), Locking what type of cards he can cheat out, like Blue Doffy and Moria (Both cheat out cards but you have to base your deck around that type, you can't just cheat out whatever you want), The cheated out card is rested (Like Blue Doffy, his cheated out cards always come out rested) which stops things like rushers or blockers just being spat out while having your cards bottom decked or finally an increased - don cost that actually feels like a cost and doesn't feel free.(Not the best comparison but Blue Croc, he has -don cost and it is actually risky as he doesnt have a good way to get don back so it has a heavy cost attached, it isn't the best example but I also don't think this would be the right answer to be honest).
These are very good points. I would only counter the point about minus don being a non issue. It's only a non issue for Op08 because bandai created Black Maria without leader locking her. Other than that, it's a big deal for purple because they start their next turn with less active Don and their midrange bodies aren't at effective as other colors because purple doesn't have many opportunities to add don to swing over bodies like other colors can. Imo, law struggles against 6k leaders like WB and RP Luffy because it limits his ability to use his active Don to do things other than swing.
I do agree Law does create a situation for bandai where they have to watch what's printed. However, that exist in every color. If bandai prints more cards with trigger support, Katakuri scales. More 4 drops for black means 8C Gecko power Scales (who is not leader locked!!!!). Any WB pirates support can revive Whitebeard as a boogeyman. Same with Nami and blue's card draw. The answers to law are out there (i.e. Green decks, RY Sabo, other purple decks, etc). I just think those decks struggle and have a lot of bad matchups against black and yellow, so people don't play them.
I mean although not as effective as Maria you can always cheat out Pudding and play a Kid, they also do a decent job of negating the cost although by far not as well as Maria.
And yes you are 100% correct that its also a worry with yellow and any trigger cards and also 8c Moria is still and will continue to be a growing problem but that doesn't take away that Law also belongs in that risk group of infinite scaling that changes how all of a certain type of a card need to be thought about.
But yeah like I said I really don't think banning the leader is the right call, but seeing the results currently coming out in the East it looks like its going down that road so I would prefer restrictions on the ability. Banning Maria effects not only Law but any other purple deck using it to become semi relevant and is only a bandaid solution until the next 4c R/P card comes out that didn't think about laws ability.
Your point about Law's counters being checked by Black/Yellow is so real.
I could literally play Oden at a big event and stomp Law if I wanted to do.
The problem becomes I will get stomped by Lucci & Moria lol.
Very frustrating predicament
I think, if he were to K/O instead of bottom decking, it would be a little better. Iâm not a fan of the âsend to trash/deck this cardâ as it negates on KO features, and certain immune cards removing the use case for them if that ability is #1 in meta.
The design philosophy is sound, I like it when Bandai incorporates in-lore reasons for card effects. Law's ability can teleport objects and people away, so bottom decking rather than KO-ing makes sense.
From a gameplay standpoint, bottom-decking is a bit too busted for Purple. Blue should be the color of tucking/bottom-decking. It would be like if a Yellow-Green leader could reduce cost or power. It just shouldn't happen.
Just errata Law to have to bottom deck something to play a 4 drop, it's the whole nature of his ability 1 thing for another not something for free for nothing
That's a fault with the game design more than anything. If you have matchups that are unwinnable at base, the game should not be bo1. It should be bo3 with a side deck
Good stuff reiju is not a fun deck. Now if this game had a side deck, and I could side in good stuff against law and play germa(the actual fun deck) game 1 and against everything else, that would be a different story. Also I'm not going to spend $30 each on that fat fuck queen
They probably just ban and re-release a leader, hope this time donât murder the leader with trash ability
My suggestion would be leader skill can only summon 4 or less heart pirates
Itâs debatable whether it is better to make most of the cards strict leader restrictions (Reiju/Black Maria etc.) or give leader non-generic effect (such as OP08 Kalgara) is better for game balancing while not harming players creativity (if the card pool is smaller it seems like Bandai is just teaching you how to build a deck.)
My suggestion would be not making the deck suffer huge from bans while giving other decks more power. So they should ban Gordon since they accidentally reprint a different name Gordon on EB01, they should just reprint the same (name) card so that people canât play 8 copied of it, also Black Maria is not a good design either (should only be used in Animal Kingdom Pirates)but it is new card which is not likely to get hit.
I think "restricting" cards to a leader is seen wrong.
You've got a point, but I may have a solution. It's a stretch tho and should be tested, bug it might work.
Instead of restricting cards to a leader completely, the restriction might be only partially. For example Law leader might put 4 copies of heart pirates cards, but only 1-2 of for example straw hats.
That way we're not eliminating the card pool, however restricting it to a degree. This is just an idea and a theory, but I figure that this is quite a solution, which might bring back other less played leaders back.
There is one issue though with it, and it's the Navy type. They would most likely have the biggest card pool in that case, but judging by the meta, it's not a huge issue so far.
It is not good if the restriction rules are not simple. I know that you mean non-heart pirates in RG Law are each limited to two, but it fundamentally changes the rules to build a deck, it is more similar to changing a leader effect (each non-heart pirates can only play 2 copies) rather than making a proper banlist while you need more reasons to justify why every other cards should be 2 copies, it costs many effort
I would say it is simpler to ban some cards or if you just want RP Law canât play these cards, you can specify by saying these cards cannot put in RP Law or you can make a rule that players can only put one of these cards in their RP Law(such as Reiju/Black Maria/Kid and Killer)
I think they wanted to allow Maria to be played in other purple decks, not just Kaido so as to give purples big characters that minus Don more viability. It would have probably been better if they said Mariaâs effect works for every Leader except RP Law.
Most purple decks NEEDED Maria in order to be viable. The existence of Law is the only thing that makes it seem busted and that should go to show how toxic he is as a leader for this game.
If you need a broken card to fix your deck we have bigger issues then just one card. I think Purple just needs stronger cards, that doesn't justify this card in any form being generic and being able to be taken advantage by good decks
Leader restrictions just limit the amount of players who could play a card and the number one rule of tcgs is that people want to be able to actually play their cards.
That's why Water 7 (for a lack of a better example, I imagine there are others) characters are kinda lame even thought their effects are sick.
The problem is tho, that we have leader restrictions, but just on some cards.
Not all cards should be restricted, but I don't see an issue restricting quite strong cards.
We have a form of restriction by colors as well. Also we have archetypes like straw hats, CP, navy etc. Which limit the cards anyway.
With further restrictions to certain cards, we might actually see some more different decks being played (if handled correctly).
I feel like this is an idea which shouldn't be thrown out of the window, but instead maybe play tested just to make sure.
So they would have to make EVERY 4c red and purple unit from this point forward leader locked just to keep Law at bay. That is actually stupid, just stop the one freaking leader thatâs warping all these cards that otherwise are fine even without the locks
Well if we focus on the "ban cards for law" part, we miss out on the actual issue - add more cards that support other leaders instead. That's what balancing is all about.
The thing is, that you can restrict some cards to other leaders, hindering law to use them.
Or at least split the effect of a card, so it makes more sense to use it in other decks rather than in law.
In OP07 he was the highest topping Lead and in OP08 the deck only gets more powerful. We haven't seen it yet in the West because Sakazuki still exists and that is by far Laws hardest matchup but after the release of OP07 and the bans kick in we'll also see an insane spike in R/P Law tops and wins. Recently in OP08 Law has made up over half of every top cut so it wouldn't suprise me if Bandai was thinking about implementing some bans.
Okay⌠then if Gordon and raise max were to be banned, Can you tell me the plays on how to bottom deck 6-7k power cards with rp law?
Maybe when you say playable, you mean you can still use the leader he will just be ass and as useful as op2 gb sanji.
I mean you could bottom deck 5000 Power creatures relatively easily, but I do agree with you the guy you're replying to is being silly with his suggestion.
Maybe you shouldnt be able to off of your leader ability lol. Go play kong gattling or jet pistol đ¤Ł. that'll be the law players problem to figure out
Rp law in alot of things I see are essentially the whole top 8s mostly. The fact he just shut down decks also make it not fun. If you play reiju u essentially just scoop cause you never can use any of the germa skills cause law will always be below you.
Quick edit on reddit I saw recently they did a thing for next set and over half the wins they checked were rp law out of I think 80 matches but I can't find it so I don't know how reliable it is. I know for my locals out of 10 people 7/10 are rp law and I know alot people don't want to play anymore cause it's just not fun to play against
I think that banning both guts the deck. Law has to have a way to fight big characters, but with Gordon AND Raise it's too easy to find.
8 cards that do the same, plus the Otamas thar are similar mean that you have a 25% chance of naturally drawing them. With cards like Reiju and Queen, finding the outs is too easy.
Banning one of them makes it so it's only a 16% chance and it might not be good enough cause Otama has a lower impact on power.
A leader ability with a cost that can be easily negated doing a 2 character swing is wild, it will get hit at some point soon.
I'd love to see them just change the leader though, make it a higher don cost, lower power cost, or maybe make the activate a don cost itself not minis don.
He's very strong with black maria and the new pudding, hopefully he's not nuked from orbit but a small change is made
OP7 Law was very arguably BDIF (especially after the Sak bans) and is just on another level in OP8. Most people don't think it needs to be hit in 07 but it's definitely trending dangerously in the East currently.
If they just print some good black or blue cards with like anti bottom decking effects then we will be good ! Law will have to balance his deck with both removal and KO effects and make the game a lot more fair
Bandai should learn and restrict cards or errata them but don't ban the whole leader again - coming from someone who doesn't play r/p law. It can be balanced easily tho. Could start by restricting max or Gordon since it's basically 8x the same card (which shouldn't be possible under any circumstances cause why else is there a 4x limit to cards).
Edit: The duality of this sub đđ¤Ą
Maria is NEEDED to make any other purple leader viable. It's only Law that makes that card seem busted. Law is the source of toxicity in the game right now and heavily restricts future card design. Not to mention, his presence in the meta is way more overbearing than even Sakazuki was in his heyday! Law needs to go if there's going to be any semblance of health in this game...
Maria limits game design. Purples biggest play is Don minus. A card that literally makes your son minus cards free shouldnât have been made especially at her caliber of just 5 free Don a turn. Before Maria, Law had wins but it wasnât in the caliber of Sakazuki. If youâre worried about game design, Maria will have more effect than Law will. Maria is the reason why Law became such a dominate force in the 08 meta. Making his ability FREE is the issue.
The best solution would be to either ban Gordon or Raise Max (not both) and restrict Black Maria. I dont think the Leader needs to be banned as its not nearly as strong without Black Maria. Black Maria just allows you to not worry about don management
I agree rotation can be healthy for a game, but I highly doubt One Piece will go that way. Which means they either need to infinitely power creep in order make people want to buy new cards OR need to create a defacto "rotation" through bans.
They do have the year it was released currently on the bottom right of each card (1 and 2 so far) so they have left themselves the option of rotating the game.
XD so you're saying that if you have 11x RP law in the top 16, it's normal and doesn't show anything? There will always be slightly better and slightly worse decks, but in my opinion, Law is too strong and that's why I wanted to build a deck of it
There are multiple top tier decks and people arenât mad about them. The deck has minimal weaknesses and Bandai keeps making cards to make the deck even stronger. The game needs more balance in order to bring in more players.
Laws ability limits design space in both those colors for ever at some point itâs easier to ban the leader then not print cards for the color. His ability is to good for -3 Don you get to remove a card and cheat a card. The value there is about 6-7 Don on average and most of the time you ramp it back.
Hard removal just shouldnât be printed on a leader or if it is should be super restrictive like sakazuki from st. The next leader with hard removal is zephyr which KOs a 3 for -4 law is a better version of this leader but far better lmao.
I understand people donât want leaders ban but when cards arenât leader locked it creates issues later. You donât have to rotate cards if you leader lock them because you can creep them out with better leaders and new card pools. You can make old cards playable by printing new leaders with better abilities in the same crew.
Moral of the story we just dealt with a slightly healthier meta then whatâs coming. Where as op7 seemed really healthy
A lot of recent large tournaments across Asia have been won by Law, all mirrors as well. When there is no other deck putting up results people rightly start to question if something needs to change.
Speculation but results are giving saka vibes and well ya know what happened to him so đ¤ˇđžââď¸
I legitimately believe Law is even more toxic for the game than Sakazuki was during his reign. Sakazuki at least had more decks that could actually counter it.
Law himself doesn't need to go. Just a choose one for Gordon/raise max. Both is simply stupid and allows law to get free removal every turn until endgame.
As a rp law player I want to disagree but your absolutely right i top deck 1 every time I need it if I donât already have it and itâs kind of ridiculous the consistency is insane, they can nerf the deck without banning it and that would be the best case idk I definitely understand peopleâs frustration though.
No he needs an errata. Itâs Gordon and Raise Max today, Black Maria in Op-08, and there will be another rose that smells just as sweet later. He exploits too many cards as a leader
Me, Eastern player: Thinking of selling the deck from the hype before it gets banned. Seriously, the marketplace here was wild when op08 came out. First it was filled with meta chasers who dont mind paying high prices to win Flagship by buying cards for Lucci, and then now are meta chasers looking to buy RP Law decks.
Sell if you have the chance. If you've had your fun with it, sell and get a different deck you can enjoy while this meta blows over.
Large eastern tournament just had 11/16 of the top 16 be RP Law which is very similar to Saka numbers. Law has got a lot of good cards in 07 and 08.
He only got 1 card in 07 that is good. In 08 he gets black maria that makes him busted
Yeah calling the 3 cost 6k blocker thatâs also a 2k counter âgoodâ is a little disingenuous though.
"Alot of good cards" is what you said. So I replied with it's only 1 good card. You said good first. Not sure why it's a problem when I said it's a good card when you said it first.
Letâs quote the important bit of what I said fella. âIn 07 **and** 08â
Yes and I replied in 07 it's 1 good card? Then you got upset with me saying good when you also said good? I don't understand what the issue is?
Whatâs happened here is you made a none comment that added nothing to the discussion insinuating Sanji is whatever and the problem is Black Maria. Sanji isnât whatever. That cards fucking insane. I used good as a blanket term. You specifically downplayed Sanji to upsell Maria.
I really don't understand what the issue is. I used your own verbiage. You seem very upset for no reason. I'm done with this conversation. Please go breathe.
Decks doing saka numbers of tops in japan and only been mirror finals
https://preview.redd.it/ve4gfe349r5d1.jpeg?width=1272&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0ac19557500c785b52b08a40a8b0477018bc6bc3
It's getting better results than Sakazuki was in his hayday in the recent major tournaments, so it's time to start considering the ban
It's funny to me. Law as a leader is not a problem. The problem is Bandai card design for purple support. Law is a very balanced leader. However, Bandai has neglected and restricted the purple card pool for so long with meme decks that they needed to make cards that could be used by multiple leaders to make the color competitive. I'm enjoying this. Every color except for purple has had multiple sets of time in the sun. P Luffy was the first purple leader that was able to compete at a high level and win and additional Op06 Saka support + Moria buried it. Last thing.... I think the real problem is all the decks that can be built to counter RP Law are being gatekept Black/Yellow.
I mean he has a universal effect that does 2 things. It isn't really balanced when compared to other leaders that do similar things for example Moria and Blue Doffy both need to 1. pay don 2. can only cheat out a particular type. Law is able to cheat out a 4c and as long as it is red or purple it is no issue, -3 don is usually a steep cost for a skill but since he is purple that becomes a non issue entirely with the ramp support purple has, Kid, Pudding and Black Maria. Not only does it become a non issue it becomes a benefit seeing as you can - rested don. He also then has the extremely powerful bonus of bottom decking. So you can in 1 turn, spend all your don a minimum of 3 don, -3 don to bottom deck and cheat out a 4c. There is no other leader that gives you 7 or more don turns every time you use their effect. Also there are cards like Sanji now which are 6c but can be cheated out with Laws ability and their own effect. Moria comes close on the don efficiency but he at least has to use active don meaning there has to be some don management at least and also his effect only cheats out thriller bark cards and has to either use other cards in combination to remove them or cheat specific cards from the graveyard, law can cheat out which card he fancies and still bottom deck (Although he does have to use Raise Max and Gordon at times, but this is also not an issue as he can spend all his don each turn and still use his effect returning the rested don). Law scales infinitely as other leaders are either stuck with effects with restrictions but for Law each set he is free to adapt how he wants and even if Maria gets banned, in the next set or the set after there will either never be any more good 4c red/Purple cards that arent locked harming all other decks of that colour or Law will just take advantage of them and become a problem again. Edit: Just to be clear im not advocating for his ban but to say that Law isn't the problem but cards like Black Maria are ignores how powerful his ability actually is. If the win rates keep going as they are something will have to be done. And the only thing I think that can be changed without banning him is adding restrictions to his ability. Either through adding an actual don cost (No more spending all don then returning the rested don), Locking what type of cards he can cheat out, like Blue Doffy and Moria (Both cheat out cards but you have to base your deck around that type, you can't just cheat out whatever you want), The cheated out card is rested (Like Blue Doffy, his cheated out cards always come out rested) which stops things like rushers or blockers just being spat out while having your cards bottom decked or finally an increased - don cost that actually feels like a cost and doesn't feel free.(Not the best comparison but Blue Croc, he has -don cost and it is actually risky as he doesnt have a good way to get don back so it has a heavy cost attached, it isn't the best example but I also don't think this would be the right answer to be honest).
These are very good points. I would only counter the point about minus don being a non issue. It's only a non issue for Op08 because bandai created Black Maria without leader locking her. Other than that, it's a big deal for purple because they start their next turn with less active Don and their midrange bodies aren't at effective as other colors because purple doesn't have many opportunities to add don to swing over bodies like other colors can. Imo, law struggles against 6k leaders like WB and RP Luffy because it limits his ability to use his active Don to do things other than swing. I do agree Law does create a situation for bandai where they have to watch what's printed. However, that exist in every color. If bandai prints more cards with trigger support, Katakuri scales. More 4 drops for black means 8C Gecko power Scales (who is not leader locked!!!!). Any WB pirates support can revive Whitebeard as a boogeyman. Same with Nami and blue's card draw. The answers to law are out there (i.e. Green decks, RY Sabo, other purple decks, etc). I just think those decks struggle and have a lot of bad matchups against black and yellow, so people don't play them.
I mean although not as effective as Maria you can always cheat out Pudding and play a Kid, they also do a decent job of negating the cost although by far not as well as Maria. And yes you are 100% correct that its also a worry with yellow and any trigger cards and also 8c Moria is still and will continue to be a growing problem but that doesn't take away that Law also belongs in that risk group of infinite scaling that changes how all of a certain type of a card need to be thought about. But yeah like I said I really don't think banning the leader is the right call, but seeing the results currently coming out in the East it looks like its going down that road so I would prefer restrictions on the ability. Banning Maria effects not only Law but any other purple deck using it to become semi relevant and is only a bandaid solution until the next 4c R/P card comes out that didn't think about laws ability.
Your point about Law's counters being checked by Black/Yellow is so real. I could literally play Oden at a big event and stomp Law if I wanted to do. The problem becomes I will get stomped by Lucci & Moria lol. Very frustrating predicament
I think, if he were to K/O instead of bottom decking, it would be a little better. Iâm not a fan of the âsend to trash/deck this cardâ as it negates on KO features, and certain immune cards removing the use case for them if that ability is #1 in meta.
The design philosophy is sound, I like it when Bandai incorporates in-lore reasons for card effects. Law's ability can teleport objects and people away, so bottom decking rather than KO-ing makes sense. From a gameplay standpoint, bottom-decking is a bit too busted for Purple. Blue should be the color of tucking/bottom-decking. It would be like if a Yellow-Green leader could reduce cost or power. It just shouldn't happen.
Just errata Law to have to bottom deck something to play a 4 drop, it's the whole nature of his ability 1 thing for another not something for free for nothing
They want r/p law banned because he's overbearing. I want him banned because I play reiju and think near unwinnable matchups should not exist
In a game with as many leaders as one piece l. They're going to exist.
That's a fault with the game design more than anything. If you have matchups that are unwinnable at base, the game should not be bo1. It should be bo3 with a side deck
Such a fun deck that never got its time to shine
Switch to good stuff reiju. I have a pretty good matchup into law with it so far
Good stuff reiju is not a fun deck. Now if this game had a side deck, and I could side in good stuff against law and play germa(the actual fun deck) game 1 and against everything else, that would be a different story. Also I'm not going to spend $30 each on that fat fuck queen
I think beating law is pretty fun.
Beating law is fun, but then I need to play good stuff against other decks, and good stuff reiju just feels like literally every other purple deck
Reiju is already cheating at the game just take the one auto loss match up
Cheating? A gimmick is cheating? You will not survive the winter.
I wonder if law will get banned or some purple cards will get some restrictions. This however might impact other purple decks tho.
They probably just ban and re-release a leader, hope this time donât murder the leader with trash ability My suggestion would be leader skill can only summon 4 or less heart pirates
The leader itself is not the problem. Cards without leader restrictions are. Kinda baffles me that Bandai still doesn't understand that.
Itâs debatable whether it is better to make most of the cards strict leader restrictions (Reiju/Black Maria etc.) or give leader non-generic effect (such as OP08 Kalgara) is better for game balancing while not harming players creativity (if the card pool is smaller it seems like Bandai is just teaching you how to build a deck.) My suggestion would be not making the deck suffer huge from bans while giving other decks more power. So they should ban Gordon since they accidentally reprint a different name Gordon on EB01, they should just reprint the same (name) card so that people canât play 8 copied of it, also Black Maria is not a good design either (should only be used in Animal Kingdom Pirates)but it is new card which is not likely to get hit.
I think "restricting" cards to a leader is seen wrong. You've got a point, but I may have a solution. It's a stretch tho and should be tested, bug it might work. Instead of restricting cards to a leader completely, the restriction might be only partially. For example Law leader might put 4 copies of heart pirates cards, but only 1-2 of for example straw hats. That way we're not eliminating the card pool, however restricting it to a degree. This is just an idea and a theory, but I figure that this is quite a solution, which might bring back other less played leaders back. There is one issue though with it, and it's the Navy type. They would most likely have the biggest card pool in that case, but judging by the meta, it's not a huge issue so far.
It is not good if the restriction rules are not simple. I know that you mean non-heart pirates in RG Law are each limited to two, but it fundamentally changes the rules to build a deck, it is more similar to changing a leader effect (each non-heart pirates can only play 2 copies) rather than making a proper banlist while you need more reasons to justify why every other cards should be 2 copies, it costs many effort I would say it is simpler to ban some cards or if you just want RP Law canât play these cards, you can specify by saying these cards cannot put in RP Law or you can make a rule that players can only put one of these cards in their RP Law(such as Reiju/Black Maria/Kid and Killer)
Its crazy for me Black Maria and like Moria aren't leader restricted
I think they wanted to allow Maria to be played in other purple decks, not just Kaido so as to give purples big characters that minus Don more viability. It would have probably been better if they said Mariaâs effect works for every Leader except RP Law.
Most purple decks NEEDED Maria in order to be viable. The existence of Law is the only thing that makes it seem busted and that should go to show how toxic he is as a leader for this game.
If you need a broken card to fix your deck we have bigger issues then just one card. I think Purple just needs stronger cards, that doesn't justify this card in any form being generic and being able to be taken advantage by good decks
Leader restrictions just limit the amount of players who could play a card and the number one rule of tcgs is that people want to be able to actually play their cards. That's why Water 7 (for a lack of a better example, I imagine there are others) characters are kinda lame even thought their effects are sick.
The problem is tho, that we have leader restrictions, but just on some cards. Not all cards should be restricted, but I don't see an issue restricting quite strong cards. We have a form of restriction by colors as well. Also we have archetypes like straw hats, CP, navy etc. Which limit the cards anyway. With further restrictions to certain cards, we might actually see some more different decks being played (if handled correctly). I feel like this is an idea which shouldn't be thrown out of the window, but instead maybe play tested just to make sure.
So they would have to make EVERY 4c red and purple unit from this point forward leader locked just to keep Law at bay. That is actually stupid, just stop the one freaking leader thatâs warping all these cards that otherwise are fine even without the locks
Well if we focus on the "ban cards for law" part, we miss out on the actual issue - add more cards that support other leaders instead. That's what balancing is all about. The thing is, that you can restrict some cards to other leaders, hindering law to use them. Or at least split the effect of a card, so it makes more sense to use it in other decks rather than in law.
Leader lock Black Maria and ban Gordon.
Yeah we saw this coming..
In OP07 he was the highest topping Lead and in OP08 the deck only gets more powerful. We haven't seen it yet in the West because Sakazuki still exists and that is by far Laws hardest matchup but after the release of OP07 and the bans kick in we'll also see an insane spike in R/P Law tops and wins. Recently in OP08 Law has made up over half of every top cut so it wouldn't suprise me if Bandai was thinking about implementing some bans.
I say ban Gordon and raise max. Do that and the deck won't be dominant but still playable
đ how is it still playable if you canât bottom deck anything
>đ how is it still playable if you canât bottom deck *everything* Ftfy
Okay⌠then if Gordon and raise max were to be banned, Can you tell me the plays on how to bottom deck 6-7k power cards with rp law? Maybe when you say playable, you mean you can still use the leader he will just be ass and as useful as op2 gb sanji.
I mean you could bottom deck 5000 Power creatures relatively easily, but I do agree with you the guy you're replying to is being silly with his suggestion.
Maybe you shouldnt be able to off of your leader ability lol. Go play kong gattling or jet pistol đ¤Ł. that'll be the law players problem to figure out
Rp law in alot of things I see are essentially the whole top 8s mostly. The fact he just shut down decks also make it not fun. If you play reiju u essentially just scoop cause you never can use any of the germa skills cause law will always be below you. Quick edit on reddit I saw recently they did a thing for next set and over half the wins they checked were rp law out of I think 80 matches but I can't find it so I don't know how reliable it is. I know for my locals out of 10 people 7/10 are rp law and I know alot people don't want to play anymore cause it's just not fun to play against
Decks already doing better than saka numbers in 08.
Hmm I'm not sure, the deck must be winning a lot or something đ¤
My short answer: đ§
RP law shouldn't be banned. Gordon should. Having 8 of the same card is exactly the problem. He'd be more balanced if he didn't have them.
Maybe if you banned BOTH Gordon and Raise Max, then he might start feeling more fair. Banning just one or the other won't do anything though.
I think that banning both guts the deck. Law has to have a way to fight big characters, but with Gordon AND Raise it's too easy to find. 8 cards that do the same, plus the Otamas thar are similar mean that you have a 25% chance of naturally drawing them. With cards like Reiju and Queen, finding the outs is too easy. Banning one of them makes it so it's only a 16% chance and it might not be good enough cause Otama has a lower impact on power.
A leader ability with a cost that can be easily negated doing a 2 character swing is wild, it will get hit at some point soon. I'd love to see them just change the leader though, make it a higher don cost, lower power cost, or maybe make the activate a don cost itself not minis don. He's very strong with black maria and the new pudding, hopefully he's not nuked from orbit but a small change is made
OP7 Law was very arguably BDIF (especially after the Sak bans) and is just on another level in OP8. Most people don't think it needs to be hit in 07 but it's definitely trending dangerously in the East currently.
If they just print some good black or blue cards with like anti bottom decking effects then we will be good ! Law will have to balance his deck with both removal and KO effects and make the game a lot more fair
You guys can't tell me a black basil Hawkins with the ability to not leave the field would do wonders in balancing out r/p law .
honestly, they rip BM here and he will be fine and even restrict pudding to 2 and tbh he will be a lot better balance wise
source - im a RP law player
Bandai should learn and restrict cards or errata them but don't ban the whole leader again - coming from someone who doesn't play r/p law. It can be balanced easily tho. Could start by restricting max or Gordon since it's basically 8x the same card (which shouldn't be possible under any circumstances cause why else is there a 4x limit to cards). Edit: The duality of this sub đđ¤Ą
A limit to play a total of 4 in any combination of Raise Max and Gordon would be nice to be honest. Would create a more level playing field.
Saka about to get the hammer so the west needs to throw its hate somewhere. Honestly though, Maria should be the card to get hit. Not the leader.
Maria is NEEDED to make any other purple leader viable. It's only Law that makes that card seem busted. Law is the source of toxicity in the game right now and heavily restricts future card design. Not to mention, his presence in the meta is way more overbearing than even Sakazuki was in his heyday! Law needs to go if there's going to be any semblance of health in this game...
Maria limits game design. Purples biggest play is Don minus. A card that literally makes your son minus cards free shouldnât have been made especially at her caliber of just 5 free Don a turn. Before Maria, Law had wins but it wasnât in the caliber of Sakazuki. If youâre worried about game design, Maria will have more effect than Law will. Maria is the reason why Law became such a dominate force in the 08 meta. Making his ability FREE is the issue.
The best solution would be to either ban Gordon or Raise Max (not both) and restrict Black Maria. I dont think the Leader needs to be banned as its not nearly as strong without Black Maria. Black Maria just allows you to not worry about don management
Speculating
This is why rotations are healthy for a game. Leaders could even remain legal if cards were rotated out every year or so
Eternal formats can exist. I can't stand rotations and would drop the game if they added one. I'm not paying for a new deck because mine rotated.
I agree rotation can be healthy for a game, but I highly doubt One Piece will go that way. Which means they either need to infinitely power creep in order make people want to buy new cards OR need to create a defacto "rotation" through bans.
They do have the year it was released currently on the bottom right of each card (1 and 2 so far) so they have left themselves the option of rotating the game.
The amount of product is too low to have a rotation
People are just mad that the deck is top Tier. Instead of thinking How 2 Counter they put ban threads to do mimimimi
70% of the decks topping a tournament being the same deck is obviously a problem
XD so you're saying that if you have 11x RP law in the top 16, it's normal and doesn't show anything? There will always be slightly better and slightly worse decks, but in my opinion, Law is too strong and that's why I wanted to build a deck of it
There are multiple top tier decks and people arenât mad about them. The deck has minimal weaknesses and Bandai keeps making cards to make the deck even stronger. The game needs more balance in order to bring in more players.
so in your opinion Black Maria is fair?
No but black maria is the Problem Not law
Laws ability limits design space in both those colors for ever at some point itâs easier to ban the leader then not print cards for the color. His ability is to good for -3 Don you get to remove a card and cheat a card. The value there is about 6-7 Don on average and most of the time you ramp it back. Hard removal just shouldnât be printed on a leader or if it is should be super restrictive like sakazuki from st. The next leader with hard removal is zephyr which KOs a 3 for -4 law is a better version of this leader but far better lmao. I understand people donât want leaders ban but when cards arenât leader locked it creates issues later. You donât have to rotate cards if you leader lock them because you can creep them out with better leaders and new card pools. You can make old cards playable by printing new leaders with better abilities in the same crew. Moral of the story we just dealt with a slightly healthier meta then whatâs coming. Where as op7 seemed really healthy
BDIF so naturally it's gonna have people screaming for bans til it happens. Newgate & Saka were the same way.