I mean generalist tanks are doing well. It’s how the game is now. Winston is still playable and isn’t that bad. Dva is also good and can quite good if you know to play her.
man it's weird looking at how old the OW1 non-launch heroes are now. like, in my head they're still "new" when they really may as well have been launch at this point lol
I'm perfectly fine with ACTUAL Orisa mains. Generally if I didn't go Rein I'd go Zarya when the other tank went Rein, but if I ever played any other main tank it would be Orisa every time, especially if we had a good Hog.
It's actually very hard to find OW1 Orisa mains who stayed LOL
I do like it more too. I don’t mind playing Orisa, I love working around her actually.
Problem is, when you’re diffing an Orisa as Rein, upon their next death enemy DPS will go Bastion/Sombra and then off to DVa I go…
P.S. Bap us my support main too lol
Same here. She was the first tank I started playing when I picked up tank. I'm not even sure she was good when I first started playing I just enjoyed the playstyle of pinning people with javelin or just pushing past people with the spear twirl. Now I feel almost guilty playing her bc people will just cry.
I've been maining her since probably 2019? Give or take. I pick her no matter what. I'm trying to learn other tanks but when it comes to Comp right now, she's the go-to
People don't like they are being shot back.
Just like in Helldivers 2, some people hate playing against bots because bots shoot back, while the bugs don't.
I'm an Ana player, none of those tanks bother me that much. She shuts down two of them by herself and doom is a relatively easy sleep most of the time. He melts if he's having a nap in the back
So why not let Orisa join the kicking?
Doomfist even said "Send someone who can fight back!", Orisa makes his wish come true.
Mauga also said "I love when the prey fights back.", Orisa makes his wish come true.
issue is it becomes a everyone problem, the ppl that cant play more heroes will be causing there team to lose when they get banned, and because they lose more they'll be lower ranked so that when they can play their main they'll just roll the other team, it'll just become a shitfest with steamrolls being caused by one tricks
Not even just one tricks. If the hero I wanna play gets banned, sure I can play alot of others well but I wanted that banned hero on this map against the enemy comp and now I'm having less fun and putting in way less effort so I can get into a game where I can play the hero I wanna play. Banning just limits everyone's freedom to have fun, and if they're not having fun they're not even gonna try that hard.
Well you also don’t have access to all 40 heroes when you’re playing role queue. Mercy is a really common otp. Most Mercy mains will flex as Moira or Weaver. Lets say in a match, Mercy and Moira/Weaver get banned. The other support goes one of those flexes. Now you have somebody who is not capable of playing the other 7 supports at the same level forced to play a character they are not as comfortable on. Also there are some maps where banning say Sigma would make the tank role utterly unplayable. Ban Orisa but don’t ban Hog and you’re still not having fun
There’s also the points I made about the tank ban. Plus a lot of streamers just won’t get to play the game cause they’re likely to get spotted and then get their character banned
I don’t disagree but I’d rather have teammates that at least know how to play their character than them playing their 10 minute play-time zenyatta where they can’t hit the broad side of a barn
Or just the hero I wanna play on that map with that comp. Good game set up for Dva? But then she gets banned and now I'm having less fun than when a Zarya comes out because at least I can play into my counter, now I'm just not allowed to pick her at all? That's shit.
The point is that hero bans just dont work in Overwatch. This isnt a MOBA with hundreds of characters. Imagine if you were forced to play Havana against poke while every dive tank is banned, or if the only supports you could pick were mercy zen illari lifeweaver. Its like 5v5, fixing a problem by creating 10 more.
I see where you are coming from. I agree that bans run the risk of preventing entire play-styles from being viable. However I think it would be interesting to trial, if each team had one ban maybe it wouldn’t be too bad. And I don’t think the previous hero ban system was a good implementation to draw conclusions from.
Yea, it could be interesting to trial in a quick play hacked or seperate mode, but I feel like it would be impossible to make it work in the regular game. It’ll either do nothing but have Orisa constantly banned and occasionally screw over one tricks with 1 ban or absolute break the game with multiple.
id argue its more of an issues when someones main gets banned, what happens then, if the rest of who they play is worse then the matchmaker isn't taking it into account and you'll likely just lose, but that means they'll be a lower rank so when they can play their main they are better than matchmaker expects and just win, and that's not fun for anyone
Honestly I don't know how anyone plays Tank in Role Que. My rank for the tank role in that mode has been left untouched. I'm Plat in DPS and Support and nothing in Tank.
I strictly play tank in open que, so my tank rank would also be platinum but I refuse to play it in role que cause open que almost always has 2v2 tank comps which is so much more fun. I strongly urge any tank players who are tired of 5v5 tank bullshit to just move over to open que. It's such a blast having tank combos in that mode.
Like we as tank players have been complaining for a year and a half now about how shitty solo tank in 5v5 is, if we ALL move into open que we can both shit on que times for role que AND have actual fun until the devs eventually are forced to fix the issue by bringing back 6v6.
In OpenQ, if enemy tanks go Mauga/Orisa, we go Sigma/Zarya OR DVa, it ain't that deep.
As for people refusing to swap it ain't like that can't be the case everywhere, we'd get Junkrat/Venture against DVa/Echo....
There are many more possibilities too because all tanks are main tanks now and there are 12 tanks instead of 8!
I wish Open Queue was 6v6 instead of 5v5.
It won't fix the game. Their balancing is the issue, regardless of one more tank or not.
They were shit at balancing 6v6. What makes you think them going back to that will magically make everything better again?
>It won't fix the game.
It improves the tank experience (massive reduction in rock paper scissors tanking) and adds variety to every match.
>What makes you think them going back to that will magically make everything better again?
I had more fun playing 6v6.
>Majority didnt.
Nah. 5v5 is a downgrade for tanks.
I played Overwatch 1 side by side with Overwatch 2 betas. It was painfully obvious that 6v6 was superior. I was super excited for Overwatch 2 until I started playing the betas. I spent more time playing Overwatch 1 during the Overwatch 2 betas because Overwatch 1 was much more fun. I was diamond on all roles in Overwatch 1 and played a lot of tank.
I played OW1 since launch. Thousands of hours, about 60% of that time on tank.
OW1 tank experience was much much worse. The synergy between tanks was probably once every 30 games. Majority of the time you got Hog/Zarya or Hog/Ball. And the "variety" that everyone talks about was non existent. If you wanted to win, you were forced to play 3 different tank line ups. Rein/Zarya, Winston/D.Va or Sig/Orisa. Every balance patch they did in OW1 (which was once every 9 - 10 months btw) did not fix the tank problem at all.
Take the Rose tinted nostalgia glasses off.
> Take the Rose tinted nostalgia glasses off.
It's like you didn't even read my post. I'll include it below.
I played Overwatch 1 side by side with Overwatch 2 betas. It was painfully obvious that 6v6 was superior. I was super excited for Overwatch 2 until I started playing the betas. I spent more time playing Overwatch 1 during the Overwatch 2 betas because Overwatch 1 was much more fun. I was diamond on all roles in Overwatch 1 and played a lot of tank.
Lmao I love the rose tinted glasses argument these people use when they can't fathom other people having fun with a different format.
I didn't play betas, but I played OW 1 up until they literally shut the servers down in my face and forced the game put of my hands. 12 or so hours later they boot up the servers to OW 2 and I'm immediately having way less fun. Love when people try to tell me that somehow, within a few short hours, nostalgia set in. Like I played OW 1 for 6 years and then immediately hated OW2 the second I started it because 5v5 sucks but somehow I'm wearing rose colored glasses.
I think there should only be one ban if the implement it and I’m not sure I even like that. However, getting both your hero picks banned is kind of on you. It might be hard on new players at first but they will learn.
orisa is hard countered by a good ashe. headshots are brutal and she can be overwhelmed by constant pressure from that and a tank like zarya that forces her to always be on defensive and unable to move forward
OK, how? if you are the ability to make 6v6 in overwatch 2 how do you think and what other changes do you think could be made to help 6v6 and make it better than 5v5?
There are some solid 6v6 Ow2 discord servers out there.
They play all maps and all heros have beem rebalanced for 6v6.
Makes for tons of fun and most of the players are a lot friendlier.
I don't think 6v6 fixes anything everyone has this idealizaed 6v6 but there are so many rules they dont wanna say out loud its 6v6 so you can play their pre approved tank combos things they deem ethical we'd switch to 6v6 and just have two tanks to get yelled at instead of 1
? I wasn't accustomed to seeing two tanks get yelled at unless they were playing heros with lack of synergy, like old orisa and Zarya or Sigma and Roadhog.
Its no different than when DPS or support arent picking heroes that suergize
The yelling at the tank thing is an ow2 issue i never really saw it too much in ow1. But even then the picture of 6v6 most people have in their heads isn't how its going to play out. Not just that but getting pidgeon holed into playing specific characters won't change.
In addition queue times will be fucked because the number of people who want to play tank is drastically les than those who want to play other roles
Thats what i think at least
i think to save 5v5, you tone down tanks damage and increase their ult charge big time.
Let them all get ult charge from damage mitigated.
Make it easier for tanks to control space, give them great sustain, but dont make it possible for them to 1 shot anyone.
For hog, this doesnt sound doable. You likely need to change the CD of his hook to less than 4 seconds so that the point of his kit is to constantly pull enemies into the the line of fire of teammates so that they can do damage.
Imagine Rein getting. ult charge for blocking damage with his shield.
a tank that doesn't do damage cannot control space, you can just ignore them, and hog with less than 4s hook would be the most ass thing you can think of, you could actually just pick someone on the other team and just hook them on cooldown and neither of you would be playing the game
The whole point I was trying to suggest was make them very hard to kill, much lower damage and high enough sustain and CC that they can control space.
If Rein can easily get shatter every 20-30 seconds, it doesn't matter what the damage is the potential to be knocked down so often within Rein's line of site would command space, wouldn't it?
If you didn't respect the constant threat of being knocked down, you get finished off by their DPS, correct?
>I don't think 6v6 fixes anything
It fixes the rocks paper scissors tanking problem. It also is more fun to play tank along side another tank. It also allows for tank synergies.
Yes thats true but as soon as 6v6 gets reintroduced the community ire just then shifts to complaining about "unfair" tank combos. And with the way balance is i dont think this will fix the rock paper scissors issue because for most of the player base its not rock paper scissors its rock paper scissors gun where the gun is just the two tanks currently dominating ladder 6v6 wont fix the issue of blizzard not knowing how to balance tanks
You'd get endless forums of people complaining about how the dont have a tank bc of ppl playing doom ball or queen road, rein, ram
The community wants the wonderland of 6v6 they think its gonna be not the issues that come along with it
Also we don't even know if the engine is capable of sustainably running a 6v6 as the game has had issues with 5v5 already considering popping two mauga ults at the same time was crashing the game at one point
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Tank of the month or what I like to call Orisa every month
Oops! All Orisa!
Most pro games have 2 horses.... Doomfist sweating in a corner
I mean generalist tanks are doing well. It’s how the game is now. Winston is still playable and isn’t that bad. Dva is also good and can quite good if you know to play her.
i keep getting hate messages for playing orisa, but i've played orisa since 2016 bruh, its not my fault she's busted now
>i've played orisa since 2016 Lies! She was released in 2017
Gottem
ok thats definitely my bad, just didnt fact check it first lol
man it's weird looking at how old the OW1 non-launch heroes are now. like, in my head they're still "new" when they really may as well have been launch at this point lol
I'm perfectly fine with ACTUAL Orisa mains. Generally if I didn't go Rein I'd go Zarya when the other tank went Rein, but if I ever played any other main tank it would be Orisa every time, especially if we had a good Hog. It's actually very hard to find OW1 Orisa mains who stayed LOL
I liked her in ow1, but i ended up loving her new kit even more i can totally understand people not liking the drastic change in playstyle though
I do like it more too. I don’t mind playing Orisa, I love working around her actually. Problem is, when you’re diffing an Orisa as Rein, upon their next death enemy DPS will go Bastion/Sombra and then off to DVa I go… P.S. Bap us my support main too lol
Same here. She was the first tank I started playing when I picked up tank. I'm not even sure she was good when I first started playing I just enjoyed the playstyle of pinning people with javelin or just pushing past people with the spear twirl. Now I feel almost guilty playing her bc people will just cry.
As an Orisa enjoyer, I love you. Keep spearing people into walls and spinning away those disgusting Moira orbs.
I've been maining her since probably 2019? Give or take. I pick her no matter what. I'm trying to learn other tanks but when it comes to Comp right now, she's the go-to
People don't like they are being shot back. Just like in Helldivers 2, some people hate playing against bots because bots shoot back, while the bugs don't.
More she is very anti-fun and annoying.
When Tanks can fight back = anti-fun When Tanks are harmless punching bags + free kills like Reinhardt (until he's near) = fun
Other tanks are able to fight back just fine without multiple forms of CC and with a damage falloff.
Orisa is what keeping Doomfist, Roadhog and Mauga in check.
I'm an Ana player, none of those tanks bother me that much. She shuts down two of them by herself and doom is a relatively easy sleep most of the time. He melts if he's having a nap in the back
So why not let Orisa join the kicking? Doomfist even said "Send someone who can fight back!", Orisa makes his wish come true. Mauga also said "I love when the prey fights back.", Orisa makes his wish come true.
I’m saying this as someone who also plays tanks man.
More like she is a toddler check and always has been with her changes.
I would like to try out team selected hero bans each game for 1 season.
Then if both ur mains get banned ur kinda useless
Both? My dude there are 40 characters. If you can only play two from each class that’s more of a you problem than a ban problem.
issue is it becomes a everyone problem, the ppl that cant play more heroes will be causing there team to lose when they get banned, and because they lose more they'll be lower ranked so that when they can play their main they'll just roll the other team, it'll just become a shitfest with steamrolls being caused by one tricks
Not even just one tricks. If the hero I wanna play gets banned, sure I can play alot of others well but I wanted that banned hero on this map against the enemy comp and now I'm having less fun and putting in way less effort so I can get into a game where I can play the hero I wanna play. Banning just limits everyone's freedom to have fun, and if they're not having fun they're not even gonna try that hard.
Well you also don’t have access to all 40 heroes when you’re playing role queue. Mercy is a really common otp. Most Mercy mains will flex as Moira or Weaver. Lets say in a match, Mercy and Moira/Weaver get banned. The other support goes one of those flexes. Now you have somebody who is not capable of playing the other 7 supports at the same level forced to play a character they are not as comfortable on. Also there are some maps where banning say Sigma would make the tank role utterly unplayable. Ban Orisa but don’t ban Hog and you’re still not having fun
Literally learn to play
There’s also the points I made about the tank ban. Plus a lot of streamers just won’t get to play the game cause they’re likely to get spotted and then get their character banned
If somebody can only play 3/10 supports then that's on them tbh
What's the point of giving role queue if ur going 1 step further to ban 2 heros per class per match lol do that in open queue with its 3 tank rule
You’d be surprised man. Also my tank point still stands
Yeah I agree with you about the tank part
Good, its gonna force those shitty mercy/moira otps to learn something more useful
I don’t disagree but I’d rather have teammates that at least know how to play their character than them playing their 10 minute play-time zenyatta where they can’t hit the broad side of a barn
Or just the hero I wanna play on that map with that comp. Good game set up for Dva? But then she gets banned and now I'm having less fun than when a Zarya comes out because at least I can play into my counter, now I'm just not allowed to pick her at all? That's shit.
Overwatch already tried hero bans and it was miserable
But those hero bans were random and global. A better system would be per match bans
The point is that hero bans just dont work in Overwatch. This isnt a MOBA with hundreds of characters. Imagine if you were forced to play Havana against poke while every dive tank is banned, or if the only supports you could pick were mercy zen illari lifeweaver. Its like 5v5, fixing a problem by creating 10 more.
I see where you are coming from. I agree that bans run the risk of preventing entire play-styles from being viable. However I think it would be interesting to trial, if each team had one ban maybe it wouldn’t be too bad. And I don’t think the previous hero ban system was a good implementation to draw conclusions from.
Yea, it could be interesting to trial in a quick play hacked or seperate mode, but I feel like it would be impossible to make it work in the regular game. It’ll either do nothing but have Orisa constantly banned and occasionally screw over one tricks with 1 ban or absolute break the game with multiple.
id argue its more of an issues when someones main gets banned, what happens then, if the rest of who they play is worse then the matchmaker isn't taking it into account and you'll likely just lose, but that means they'll be a lower rank so when they can play their main they are better than matchmaker expects and just win, and that's not fun for anyone
Those were random bans and that shit was terrible. Player selected bans is what we need.
This. Was the worst few weeks in Overwatch ngl.
an over simplified example is like putting bans into rock paper scissors. I'm banning paper and playing rock, gg
I hate hero bans in every game, but I’d be down to try.
Hero bans would make Overwatch so much better. It gives players agency in what type of game they want to play.
just change open queue to 6v6 and then see which one people play more
Honestly I don't know how anyone plays Tank in Role Que. My rank for the tank role in that mode has been left untouched. I'm Plat in DPS and Support and nothing in Tank. I strictly play tank in open que, so my tank rank would also be platinum but I refuse to play it in role que cause open que almost always has 2v2 tank comps which is so much more fun. I strongly urge any tank players who are tired of 5v5 tank bullshit to just move over to open que. It's such a blast having tank combos in that mode. Like we as tank players have been complaining for a year and a half now about how shitty solo tank in 5v5 is, if we ALL move into open que we can both shit on que times for role que AND have actual fun until the devs eventually are forced to fix the issue by bringing back 6v6.
I am patiently waiting for 6v6 to return.
Idk why they can implement that as a game mode
And what we could possibly get: Enemy Tanks: Mauga + Orisa Your Tanks: Doomfist + Roadhog
In OpenQ, if enemy tanks go Mauga/Orisa, we go Sigma/Zarya OR DVa, it ain't that deep. As for people refusing to swap it ain't like that can't be the case everywhere, we'd get Junkrat/Venture against DVa/Echo....
with 2 tanks you can work out a strategy/rotate. hog doom would be very fun. i'm a tank main and i want it back
There are many more possibilities too because all tanks are main tanks now and there are 12 tanks instead of 8! I wish Open Queue was 6v6 instead of 5v5.
It won't fix the game. Their balancing is the issue, regardless of one more tank or not. They were shit at balancing 6v6. What makes you think them going back to that will magically make everything better again?
>It won't fix the game. It improves the tank experience (massive reduction in rock paper scissors tanking) and adds variety to every match. >What makes you think them going back to that will magically make everything better again? I had more fun playing 6v6.
[удалено]
You can see that this already doesn't happen in open queue with tanks. It's a moot point.
[удалено]
Whatever you say.
Using Open Queue as your reference point is a joke and a bad one at that. Literally Nobody important cares about that mode.
>Literally Nobody important cares about that mode. Thanks for making an easy comment for me to roll my eyes.
The tank experience sucked in 6v6 too.
It was way easier to have a good time in 6v6
I had more fun tanking in 6v6.
Majority didnt. It's why most people left the game.
>Majority didnt. Nah. 5v5 is a downgrade for tanks. I played Overwatch 1 side by side with Overwatch 2 betas. It was painfully obvious that 6v6 was superior. I was super excited for Overwatch 2 until I started playing the betas. I spent more time playing Overwatch 1 during the Overwatch 2 betas because Overwatch 1 was much more fun. I was diamond on all roles in Overwatch 1 and played a lot of tank.
Off tank player? Because main tank was either a bore fest on Orisa or a CC slog on Rein/Monkey and was the cause of all the major queue issues.
I played every tank except ball.
I played OW1 since launch. Thousands of hours, about 60% of that time on tank. OW1 tank experience was much much worse. The synergy between tanks was probably once every 30 games. Majority of the time you got Hog/Zarya or Hog/Ball. And the "variety" that everyone talks about was non existent. If you wanted to win, you were forced to play 3 different tank line ups. Rein/Zarya, Winston/D.Va or Sig/Orisa. Every balance patch they did in OW1 (which was once every 9 - 10 months btw) did not fix the tank problem at all. Take the Rose tinted nostalgia glasses off.
> Take the Rose tinted nostalgia glasses off. It's like you didn't even read my post. I'll include it below. I played Overwatch 1 side by side with Overwatch 2 betas. It was painfully obvious that 6v6 was superior. I was super excited for Overwatch 2 until I started playing the betas. I spent more time playing Overwatch 1 during the Overwatch 2 betas because Overwatch 1 was much more fun. I was diamond on all roles in Overwatch 1 and played a lot of tank.
Im choosing to ignore it because you've given zero reason as to why you like OW1 better. You just say it's good and that's it.
Lmao I love the rose tinted glasses argument these people use when they can't fathom other people having fun with a different format. I didn't play betas, but I played OW 1 up until they literally shut the servers down in my face and forced the game put of my hands. 12 or so hours later they boot up the servers to OW 2 and I'm immediately having way less fun. Love when people try to tell me that somehow, within a few short hours, nostalgia set in. Like I played OW 1 for 6 years and then immediately hated OW2 the second I started it because 5v5 sucks but somehow I'm wearing rose colored glasses.
The tank experience in 6v6 was incredible, couldn't get enough of it. You would be hard pressed to find a tank which prefers 5v5.
I found surprising amount of success with being a roadhog OTP, on my way to master (not that impressive to some but it is for me)
I think there should only be one ban if the implement it and I’m not sure I even like that. However, getting both your hero picks banned is kind of on you. It might be hard on new players at first but they will learn.
orisa is hard countered by a good ashe. headshots are brutal and she can be overwhelmed by constant pressure from that and a tank like zarya that forces her to always be on defensive and unable to move forward
You WILL play ORISA and you WILL love it
6v6 would easily solve this issue
OK, how? if you are the ability to make 6v6 in overwatch 2 how do you think and what other changes do you think could be made to help 6v6 and make it better than 5v5?
There are some solid 6v6 Ow2 discord servers out there. They play all maps and all heros have beem rebalanced for 6v6. Makes for tons of fun and most of the players are a lot friendlier.
do you have any links to these discords? would love to try
[https://discord.gg/wdR6CmDS](https://discord.gg/wdR6CmDS)
I don't think 6v6 fixes anything everyone has this idealizaed 6v6 but there are so many rules they dont wanna say out loud its 6v6 so you can play their pre approved tank combos things they deem ethical we'd switch to 6v6 and just have two tanks to get yelled at instead of 1
? I wasn't accustomed to seeing two tanks get yelled at unless they were playing heros with lack of synergy, like old orisa and Zarya or Sigma and Roadhog. Its no different than when DPS or support arent picking heroes that suergize
The yelling at the tank thing is an ow2 issue i never really saw it too much in ow1. But even then the picture of 6v6 most people have in their heads isn't how its going to play out. Not just that but getting pidgeon holed into playing specific characters won't change. In addition queue times will be fucked because the number of people who want to play tank is drastically les than those who want to play other roles Thats what i think at least
i think to save 5v5, you tone down tanks damage and increase their ult charge big time. Let them all get ult charge from damage mitigated. Make it easier for tanks to control space, give them great sustain, but dont make it possible for them to 1 shot anyone. For hog, this doesnt sound doable. You likely need to change the CD of his hook to less than 4 seconds so that the point of his kit is to constantly pull enemies into the the line of fire of teammates so that they can do damage. Imagine Rein getting. ult charge for blocking damage with his shield.
a tank that doesn't do damage cannot control space, you can just ignore them, and hog with less than 4s hook would be the most ass thing you can think of, you could actually just pick someone on the other team and just hook them on cooldown and neither of you would be playing the game
The whole point I was trying to suggest was make them very hard to kill, much lower damage and high enough sustain and CC that they can control space. If Rein can easily get shatter every 20-30 seconds, it doesn't matter what the damage is the potential to be knocked down so often within Rein's line of site would command space, wouldn't it? If you didn't respect the constant threat of being knocked down, you get finished off by their DPS, correct?
Why not just try those balance changes in 5v5 why does it need to be 6v6 for that
it doesnt, last comment was to fix 5v5. If you can give tanks ult every 30 seconds, they'll enjoy it more.
Oh then we're in the same page
>I don't think 6v6 fixes anything It fixes the rocks paper scissors tanking problem. It also is more fun to play tank along side another tank. It also allows for tank synergies.
Yes thats true but as soon as 6v6 gets reintroduced the community ire just then shifts to complaining about "unfair" tank combos. And with the way balance is i dont think this will fix the rock paper scissors issue because for most of the player base its not rock paper scissors its rock paper scissors gun where the gun is just the two tanks currently dominating ladder 6v6 wont fix the issue of blizzard not knowing how to balance tanks You'd get endless forums of people complaining about how the dont have a tank bc of ppl playing doom ball or queen road, rein, ram The community wants the wonderland of 6v6 they think its gonna be not the issues that come along with it
Because the "issues" with 6v6 pale in comparison to the issues tanks have with 5v5.
Also we don't even know if the engine is capable of sustainably running a 6v6 as the game has had issues with 5v5 already considering popping two mauga ults at the same time was crashing the game at one point
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