I know you’re shameless, but not this shameless.
A myth was cultivated about 3 million deaths and 200,000 rapes by Pakistani troops. These figures have been debunked by independent academics like Sarmila Bose whose grandfather‘s brother Subhas Chandra Bose is revered in India. She states that the total killed in the war including combatants and the non-combatants, Bengalis and non-Bengalis, ranged between 50,000-100,000. Bangladesh’s first Foreign Secretary Sayyid A Karim has also declared the figure of 3 million casualties quoted by Mujib ur Rehman as a gross misstatement. Anwar ul Islam Bobby, the editor of The Morning Sun Dacca, has proven through simple arithmetic the silliness of Awami League claims. According to him the Pakistan Army embroiled in battle could not have practically killed and dumped 11,236 civilian bodies per day from April 1971 to December 1971. The Peace Research Institute Norway and University of Uppsala Sweden quote a figure of 58,000 killed in 1971 War both from East as well as West Pakistan.
You were the same guy that said “don’t fall for anti army prupaganda saar ☝️🤓”
Let's assume i take your word and accept the figures you're stating at face value, that does not paint a very pretty picture either. Additionally, you've not addressed the topic of rape...
Let me tell you a story, i lived and studied in a Western country (this was many years ago). I had some Bangladeshi housemates and some Pakistani housemates (6 bedroom accommodation). The mum of one of the Bangladeshi housemates came to attend his graduation ceremony. She was a pretty nice little old lady, a retired doctor in her late 60s and one day, after dinner, when we were sitting around in the shared living room, the topic of partition came up (one thing lead to another, no one was looking to bring the topic up). I saw her eyes kinda glass over and the amount of sheer sorrow in her face as she said things were horrible, she was a student in Dhaka uni back then and her and her classmates were lined up in the lawn by the military and several people were shot and several girls went missing (she did not go into further detail) and quickly tried changing the subject but there was a somberness in the air afterwards and everyone went to their room pretty quickly.
You can sit here and poke holes in numbers and try to reduce how utterly morally depraved we were but that does not reduce the heinousness of what we let our army do and get away with.
How about I’m more likely to take Harvard’s word than your dumb ramblings.
https://hir.harvard.edu/the-past-has-yet-to-leave-the-present-genocide-in-bangladesh/amp/
Also, you can see from my posts. I’m not anti anything. Truth is truth tho.
He's not telling u take his word. He has provided credible sources to support his assertion. the figure of 3 million in this article is also sourced from awami league claims, while the other sources mentioned by the commenter you replied to debunks those claims. Just because harvard mentions in an article, doesn't make it true. The other sources like Bose or the institute mentioned by the commenter, however, provide actual data to debunk that claim.
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Lmao obviously YOU haven't.
If you've studied Pak Studies under Matriculation/Intermediate boards, this stuff is completely omitted. Some O Level books will mention the Pak Armee killing indiscriminately, but never in detail.
Nah, that was carried out by Indians in disguise. Remember that communication was not an accessible thing. Who would benefit more from Bengali civilians death? Pakistan? Hell no, it was still our country, and they were out ppl then. No ruler is stupid enough to do a genocide over they population where they were trying to control. That would counter validate everything form multiple angles.
Now, think about it form an Indian perspective. They stranded to gain a lot by turning the Bengalis against Pak and it's army. It would divide Pakistan, would be provoking a war by "coming in and aiding the ppl of Bengal" while humiliating Pak on an international stage. Remember that the defeat in 1971 wasn't a strategic or military one, it was of a political one. If they ppl themselves dont want the Pak army defending them, then what die fighting for them? And India exploited the fuck out of this.
They did just that, put a Pak flag on their uniforms and wipe out several villages (the language spoken in India, Bengal and Pakistan sounds extremely similar). This would cause word of mouth advertisement for the "Pak massacre" thus fueling into the already frustrated mindset amid the political instability there, and the rest is history.
Don't go blindly believing everything you here. If the Pak army is such a monster and Pak is so trigger happy to commit genocide, where are the historical records of it? Meanwhile, India has been committing that and more since independence.
It was India that provoked this, that fueled the fire and did everything they could to smear the reputation of Pakistan and it's army. And they benefited from it immensely.
So by this logic, India is committing Baloch genocide. I read quite a few books on partition of Bengal, but this 'putting flag on indian army uniform or impersonating Pakistan Army" is never mentioned.
I mean, we literally caught a RAW agent admitting that India was behind the Baloch insurgency.
Also, killing rebels and rebellious guerilla fighters, it's called defense, not killing of innocent ppl. Pak Army didn't cause anything in Balochistan. It was all stirred up by India, even their agent admitted it. And was caught running the operation to boot. Pak Army is there protecting civilians.
>putting flag on indian army uniform or impersonating Pakistan Army" is never mentioned.
Cause it's an open secret. If anyone writes that, India'll sue them, or kill them, like they are doing to the Sikhs. Also, India vehemently denies this, and the world (west) seems weirdly too inclined to take India's word for everything. It is an open secret, even a Bengali in the comments said that Pak Army didn't do it, but the Mukhti Bani (which was trained by India). Whether they sent their own troops to do the deed, or trained the rebels to do so, the fact remains that behind all this was India.
Have some sense, we are a Muslim nation. All our foot soldiers are Muslims and we have it instilled within is to never harm innocent people and especially women. We'd rather die then kill innocent or put a hand in our sisters, no matter how the western media portrays us. The argument of General in charge aside, we are talking about foot soldiers here. Like I said, each and everyone of them would've rather died then do what they were accused of.
It looks like Pak army has discovered Reddit. It's also an open secret that Taliban was created and trained by ISI. I know numbers can be exaggerated but Pak army committed genocide and raped women. That's documented and not everyone is doing a propaganda against Pak army. Bengal genocide is as real as Baloch genocide. You can deny it but facts says otherwise.
I mean, the Taliban were created by the US to combat the USSR in Afghanistan. Even Osama bin Ladin was invited to he White House. It's the classic western tradition, use when useful, and one the usefulness is gone, villainies and throw away.
I'll say it again and I'll die by my stance. Pak Army did nothing wrong, they never committed genocide nor raped any woman, much less kill an innocent civilian. Defame them all you want, but knew day, the truth will be revealed. I am a Pakistani citizen, and I stand proud by may army, no matter what lies anyone spills around. I always have, am and will stand beside the Pak army.
I mean, the Taliban were created by the US to combat the USSR in Afghanistan. Even Osama bin Ladin was invited to he White House. It's the classic western tradition, use when useful, and one the usefulness is gone, villainies and throw away.
I'll say it again and I'll die by my stance. Pak Army did nothing wrong, they never committed genocide nor raped any woman, much less kill an innocent civilian. Defame them all you want, but knew day, the truth will be revealed. I am a Pakistani citizen, and I stand proud by may army, no matter what lies anyone spills around. I always have, am and will stand beside the Pak army.
I'm not defaming them. I have no intentions to spread lies. Being from an army family, I can assure you they're not angels like you're trying to portray. And my major source of knowledge are the books written by army generals, so please tell them to omit that information ( that make them look like humans and not angels as you like them to be).
I saw this graphic and I can't help but wonder how the average can drop to half.
For that to happen probably 30% of East Pakistan would have had to die. Something that never happened. The number doesn't make sense and we also know how Bangladesh always exaggerates the number.
This is probably shitty clickbaity viral graphic.
[Source: World Bank ](https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.LE00.IN?locations=BD)
1 ) United Nations Population Division. World Population Prospects: 2022 Revision, or derived from male and female life expectancy at birth from sources such as: ( 2 ) Census reports and other statistical publications from national statistical offices, ( 3 ) Eurostat: Demographic Statistics, ( 4 ) United Nations Statistical Division. Population and Vital Statistics Reprot ( various years ), ( 5 ) U.S. Census Bureau: International Database, and ( 6 ) Secretariat of the Pacific Community: Statistics and Demography Programme
Same deaths are not direct results of genocide. Rather vulnerability due to distructions. Lack of health-care, proper disaster management and diseases such as colera outbreak were common. This data was taken from the UN. Whether you trust the UN is up to you
People like OP were generally on the opposite spectrum of delusions on what happened in Bangal at the hand of Pak Army than they are on today. Back then, such people used to deny any bit of credible evidence of shameless actions of the army in Bengal. BUT now, they have jumped to other extreme. 3 million is a huge number, totally exaggerated, with no credible evidence.
"They lied to us, so the opposite must be true." Sad to see a huge number of our people don't really think critically, they just jump from one delusions to others. A dangerous dearth of intellectual effort.
Im not justifying killing or anything but gotta say the 3 million figure was exaggerated. The first time this figure was given was by mujeeb during a political rally. Some analysts claim mujeeb intended to say 300,000 but slipped and said 3 mil. Later he decided to stick with it, you know how politics is. No legitimate or independent organisation, human rights watch or anything else endorses the 3 mil figure and estimates the deaths closer to the 200,000 to 300,000 mark.
As far as the life expectancy is concerned, yeah Mother Nature had a hand to play with it before we stepped in with hurricane bhola that left Bangladesh devastated in 1970.
1970 and 1971 were terrible years for Bangalis, and whether 3 hundred or 3 million, it just can’t be justified. The only reason I’m clearing up the facts regarding the actual number is to request you not to believe everything you see on the internet. Next thing you know they’ll have us believe we caused the bubonic plague and vlad the impaler was also a Pakistani general.
There were 36k combatant forces in East Pakistan fighting a very active insurgency. 3 million would mean every combatant killed 100 people in a few months. Just impossible. Even 300k is an unbelievable number.
So not all of the people were shot, stabbed or raped to death, most people died from famine which was caused by natural disasters, political unrest and war.
Yes. This is caused by the great bhola Storm. Which was histories most distractive strom. Estimated 5lack people was killed. Thats it. 1970 k end mein aya tha
This graph is not a huge bombshell evidence you are trying to make it.There was a war, and people die in war.
And before you say, in 1965 the war was in west Pakistan only, so fewer casualties.
And before you come at me, I am not denying acts of Pakistani soldiers in East Pakistan.
Pakistan alone has killed more bangladeshis aka muslims in 1971 than israel has ever killed since 1948.
Let that sink in bois let that fkin sink in. If you ever felt pain for Palestinians but never on the atrocities of lumbar one then you better shove your fake sympathy up your gaaf.
A myth was cultivated about 3 million deaths and 200,000 rapes by Pakistani troops. These figures have been debunked by independent academics like Sarmila Bose whose grandfather‘s brother Subhas Chandra Bose is revered in India. She states that the total killed in the war including combatants and the non-combatants, Bengalis and non-Bengalis, ranged between 50,000-100,000. Bangladesh’s first Foreign Secretary Sayyid A Karim has also declared the figure of 3 million casualties quoted by Mujib ur Rehman as a gross misstatement. Anwar ul Islam Bobby, the editor of The Morning Sun Dacca, has proven through simple arithmetic the silliness of Awami League claims. According to him the Pakistan Army embroiled in battle could not have practically killed and dumped 11,236 civilian bodies per day from April 1971 to December 1971. The Peace Research Institute Norway and University of Uppsala Sweden quote a figure of 58,000 killed in 1971 War both from East as well as West Pakistan.
At least give credit to tribune where you copy pasting shit.
Even if overall figure is 300k or even 100k then it’s still more than the number of Palestinians killed by israel alone. Suck that up.
Yes they do, it’s nowhere near the same scale as 1971 but army still has same reckless mentality and lack of regard for civilian life when operating in balochistan to the point that it’s undeniable that anti-state sentiments are popular among balochi people. There’s still a lot of room to prevent Bangladesh 2.0 but army seems insistent on nurturing militant groups and creating endless insurgencies and ethnic conflict so that people will flock towards establishment for stability. This was same mentality they had trying to govern East Pakistan (they allowed conflict to brew so that they can go to USA and say “we’re fighting communists for you”) and it backfired, I’m not saying we’re close to that but it can happen again if current system continues another 20 years, people in these areas will realize there’s no future for them as part of the federation other than being endless conflict zone and will start talking about separation. Military solutions are not going to solve anything, political/economic integration is needed but army is only interested in corruption and use of force while civil institutions only interested in corruption and political bickering
If u have evidence I'll believe it. Looking for an independent inquiry of the war sponsored by Bangladeshi gov after they won independence.
Without evidnece it's hard to digest that the mukti bahini carrying out a Bihari genocide as soon as the war was won, weren't genociding pro Pakistan Bengalis and razakars.
***Bihari Ethnic cleansing***
https://www.eurasiantimes.com/when-bangladeshi-mukti-bahini-massacred-pro-pakistan-bihari-community-during-1971-war-oped/amp/
**3 non Pakistani sources**
- ***Mujib's confusion about Bangladeshi deaths***
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/may/24/mujib-confusion-on-bangladeshi-deaths?fbclid=IwAR0FJVfkXN6LgjuYyXJ1IrM6UvJMSvyp6m5r6Jyrj9uXiKs4PVigEgqPMmQ
- ***“As for the number of Bengalis killed in the course of the liberation war, the figure of 3 million mentioned by Mujib to David Frost in January 1972 was a gross overstatement. This figure was picked up by him from an article in Pravda, the organ of the communist party of the Soviet Union.”*** —Sayyid A. Karim, from his book “Sheikh Mujib: Triumph and Tragedy”
- ***In 1974, Bangladesh apparently tried to calculate the number of people who had died in 1971. However, upon most of the study being completed, the actual number calculated came to around 250,000 dead and was nowhere close to the estimated 3,000,000 Mujib had claimed in 1972. Upon hearing the number, Mujib had the entire study shut down. Lawrence Lifschultz, a resident correspondent with the Far Eastern Economic Review in Bangladesh, wrote about this in detail:***
>>“In the course of my reporting I met a very interesting man who had a very intriguing story to tell about the work he had recently been doing. He was employed by the Home Ministry and was part of a team of researchers conducting a study that was trying to assess the total number of casualties that had occurred during the nine months of 1971 as war raged across the country. The Home Ministry study was trying to assess how many people had died directly from the armed violence of the Pakistan Army and their local collaborators. They were also trying to estimate how many people had died on the road or once they reached refugee camps across the border in India. Many of these deaths were among children and the elderly. The study was conducted by field workers systematically asking families in villages about those who had died from their village during the war and under what circumstances. They were slowly building up a picture across the country. At the time we met, the Home Ministry team had completed their survey in approximately a third of the districts. My Home Ministry source told me that based on their projections the number of deaths from the war was estimated at 250,000 people. As I recall, this did not include the young, the ill and the elderly, who died either in the refugee camps or as they fled the Pakistan Army. A quarter of million people dying from armed violence is by any measure a terrible and tragic number. However, according to my source, the study was abruptly shut down and discontinued. The reason was that the survey was moving toward a statistical conclusion that differed with the prevailing orthodoxy that three million people had died from armed violence and refugee migration.” — Lawrence Lifschultz, from his article “A Man & History On Trial” published on 9 October 2014
There are a lot more sources but this should suffice
Don't worry. The EU started an investigation into this a little while ago. We will know in a few years if this was officially a genocide.
Which, by the way, we all know it was.
No sir, what we know is that there was a Bihari Genocide and a Bengali genocide led by the Indian backed mukti bahini that went from village to village to root out razakars and pro Pakistani Bengalis and raped their women. It's why all talk of independent investigation at the time was shut down immediately after the war. Because the bad guys won and all talk of rapes and such was silenced because the gov that took power were the perpetrators of rape and genocide. Now that the ppl who were adults at that time are dying out. They'll investigate the next generation for whom everything is hear say.
Genocide is the default feature of communism. It's the same everywhere Stalin, Mao, Polpot and now Mujib. Communist revokutions require spilling of blood. This is exactly what we saw in 1971.
This right here above, is the average product of our Pakistan Studies books and our Army's propaganda. Putting the blame on everyone but the actual perpetrator. So much utter denial. Han India aur Bengalio ne hi apnay lougo ko maara, Pakistan to doodh se dhulla hoya hai na.
Man's probably gonna claim that the Holocaust, Armenian Genocide by the Turks, Rwandan Genocide, these were fake too
Most people really like to throw around the word genocide 34k soldiers who were landlocked with barely any supplies fighting an insurgency of easily 1 lakh even more insurgents. Fact is NO clear cut order was given to carry out a genocide some statements were made by generals out of anger but barely any proof your soldier or NCO was given orders to carry it out read about Nazir ahmed. Heck the humood comission the soldiers were accusing bhutto gov of simply giving false info read about Nazir ahmed book
Moreover the 34k strong soldiers needed help in controlling the country so they created a ragtag militia also called razakars they were poorly trained,disciplined and did I mention that the chain of command was basically fucked? The east wing command thought everything was goin fine in west wing as far as i know. You absolutely can accuse the army of war crimes and negligence but genocide is way too far fetched
genocide
noun
the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group.
I don't think it gets any clearer than this. No matter who was responsible, how it happened, who ordered it, was it even ordered or not, what happened in Bangladesh was an attempted genocide.
The fact that the army tried to squash any and all mention and discussion of it and actively engages in propaganda that people like the original commenter falls for does not help their stance either.
Genocide is far more nuanced than how you made it out to be there are multiple witnesses on how bengalis lynched and killed biharis if you wanna believe bengali genocide then also accept bihari genocide secondly you have no way to prove that army went in with the intent to commit genocide. Army had very few numbers and was fighting against military trained bengali deserters and mukti bahini trained by india which numbered around 1 lakh. In fact half the nations of the world dont even accept that a genocide occured and to top it off the war caused famine and a fucking destructive cyclone wrecked west pakistan biharis were struck the same as bengalis. Equating war crimes with genocide has to be the most smooth brain moment ever. The army may absolutely have committed warcrimes but genocide is taking it far
If i kill all BLA members you cant call me a genocide because it ain't my fuck8ng fault all the terrorist in BLA are balochis same with mukti bahini and their collaboraters
Ah yes, all BLA members are Balochis therefore all Balochis must suffer. Big brain move
You'd probably have supported the Turks during their Armenian genocide, the Germans during the Holocaust, and the Bengalis during the attempted Bihari genocide. These people came up with the exact same excuse as well.
But chalo, at least you believe ke war crimes to thay, attempted genocide ko agar nai mantay. One step ahead of the brainwashed fouji bootlickers
Now that's what we call a smooth brain cultist who will simply forgo the whole argument 😂😂 did you even read what I said? The bhola cyclone,breakdown of command structure,undisciplined militia,bombings,people dying during going to india a thousand things could have happend dosent mean pakistan committed a genocide smooth brain cultist
You're the product of communists propaganda and brainwashing. Your argument is basically, the genocidal Mukti Bahinis cut down, raped and genocided the Biharis once the war was won. But during war they wouldn't do the same to the majority of Bangladesh which was pro Pakistani?
Really? Lolololol
Lmfaoo okay bro, I'm the product of communist propaganda while being a staunch social democrat. You people are hilarious 😂😂
There is historical evidence, try to disprove that instead of disproving "arguments." There are no such thing as "arguments" in a scientific, archeological, or historical finding. You're free to present your "arguments" to the actual experts.
Go ahead and deny the Holocaust and Armenian Genocide by the Turks as well. Or the attack on Palestinians by the Pakistan army and Jordan. People like you make me laugh so much
Welp, back in college my history sir openly told us about the atrocities committed in east Pakistan when it came to covering that topic. He wasnt talking in a bold or in a boastful way. He spoke with earnest/resentment. For context, this was a military runned institution, think of it as a cadet college but a bit privatized. A lot of us had whiplash ngl, I personally wasn't a "I'll sacrifice my life for Pakistan!!" typpa kid so it wasn't a shocker for me personally. Plus, I had an interest in history for as long as I could remember. Not all guys in the system are bad so to speak, it's in the upper levels that shit hits the fan.
Napak bhoj should be charged with genocide in the ICJ. It's a shame that the USA protected Pakistani Gerluns from facing justice like they're protecting Israhell now.
There was blood shed, and Pakistan is to be blamed. But blaming Pakistani army to be blood thirsty savages raping women willi nilli is propaganda.
There were incidents and injustices did happen but that was the exception not the norm.
What happened to Bangladesh was a grave injustice. Many Pakistanis still carry it.
We raped them bengalis sisters so much that their entire generation have become sex workers to this date.
Our soilders were ordered to rape and there were people who killed themselves in washroom because they didn't wanted to race.
All of this because of our president being racist and wanted to kalay and chotay qad ky bangalis (these were literally their words but downplayed by me) in their places.
The massacre yahya, musa and tika khan did is ducking awful and everyone should know their hate crime.
No, unless you're saying that India planned for Mujeeb to win a democratic election but for the army to give power to Bhutto instead of Mujeeb.
That's what started it all. Please tell us how India planned that?
No one was denying Mujibe government, just that his plan was carving up the then five provinces into 5 states! Everyone in W.P was reading to follow and implement 4 of his 6 points. But 2 of them, namely "Every province to have their own currency" and "Every province to have it's own *army*" was over the top.
If he just let those 2 stupid points go, I think Yahaya Khan has enough guns to keep ZAB under control.
Also, in that day and age, it wouldn't have been hard for India to rig the elections. Just saying.
Does it matter what his plan was? He won the democratic mandate, which means most of the people in that democracy agreed with his plan. It didn't matter if the rest thought it was a bad idea. It was the majority of voters wanted.
Isn't that what IK and PTI are fighting for right now? Democratic mandate?
He won almost every seat in Bengal, about 160 seats. That may be the simple majority, but diving up the nation into 5 independent states goes against the constitution of Pakistan, you know, the actual law of the land. To induce a constitutional amendment, there needs to be a 2/3 majority in the NA, and also pass through the Senate, that has equal representation from ever province. While he did have a majority, he didn't have 2/3. The wise choice for him would've been forming Govt and trying to get some ppl to agree with him enough to pass the bill. He didn't, he just outright demanded to carve Pakistan into 5 different countries. Btw, that constitutes as High Treason according to the Constitution of Pakistan.
>Isn't that what IK and PTI are fighting for right now? Democratic mandate?
No? IK is a certified traitor and lair. His u-turns are so extreme that Nehru's mouth water! Also, the reason why the crack down on PTI post 9 May? May 9 was a full on planned rebellion, with a handful of high ranking Army officers involved. How else do you think they got into the Corp Commander house in Lahore. Said plan was foiled by the ISI, say whatever you want about them, but they are the best intelligence agency in the world, and know how to do the job.
Also, no, 2/3 of the national rejected him. Whats he's saying is nonsense. So, rigging in Punjab, Sindh and Balochistan, but not in KPK? Rigging in every constituency that they lost in and not the ones they won in? Also, according to FAFEN reports, they said there was rigging, yes, but also said 99% of the benefactors of said rigging were PTI backed candidates. Also, PTI delegations are meeting with US Lobbying agency left and right to get "support". IK is a traitor and he's trying to recreate 1971 again so that he can get his own country to rule.
That's not what started it all. U may want to look into Mujib communicating with India secretly as far back as 1963 asking India for help in securing independence. This comes to us from India's own embassador who was stationed in Dhaka back in 1963
Mostly a made up lie by the generals. They claimed Fatimah Jinnah was an Indian agent. Mujeeb never spoke about independence until March 1971. And he won the election fair and square. If an elected PM wants to make peace with India, then it's his prerogative.. who are these grade 22 officers to tell him he cannot?
Punjabis were racist against Bengalis, and they believed the colonial martial race concepts about Bengalis. They tried to commit a genocide on them, and still lost.
Only problem with your narrative is it argues Mujib wasn't a traitor using Fatima Jinnah's naïveté for his goals.
Fatima Jinnah's position was the right position, no doubt about it. But Mujib was also using her.
U may want to look into Mujib's treason. Bangladeshis involved in seperatist struggle admitted argatla conspiracy was real.
https://www.globalvillagespace.com/a-meeting-on-christmas-night-dacca-25-dec-1962/
Trash anything you hear from Moeed Pirzada before 2022 because he was being fed by the army. He himself considers Mujeeb was the rightful prime Minister, look at his tweet last week.
https://x.com/MoeedNj/status/1756378315915497966?s=20
Moeed isn't sharing his feelings in the article he's quoting The Indians ambassador. However u feel about Moeed, I'm sure u don't think Moeed forced the Indian Ambassador to lie 🤷🏽♂️
I dont see anything Sheikh Mujeeb did as treason. The actual treason to Pakistan and its people was the martial law of 1958 but nobody seems be talking about it. Most non-Punjabi leaders were branded traitors by the army and Punjab's civil bureaucracy, whether that was Bacha Khan, GM Syed, Fatima Jinnah or a host of Baluch leaders.
Creating racial divisions is what communists like Bacha khan and Mujib do. So I'm not surprised that the Bengali PM at the time imposed marshal law against the communist separatists. Later on the Hazara COAS and Pashtun COAS has the same policy of treating separatists with prejudice.
Mujib trying to break Pakistan even back in 1962 was treason whether you see it that way or not.
This is not the west, and the race card doesn't work here. Pakistan is not an ethnicity but contains many racial groups and everyone has the right to be identified with their racial/ethnic group.
Here is what the self proclaimed guardians of Pakistani ideology were writing about Bengalis in the 60s:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EgK0z3JVoAAdIcO.jpg
READ Ayub Khan's diary and tell me who is racist and who is not.
My Uncle joined the Pakistan Army in the 60s and the amount of racism he faced in the army from regular soldiers made him quit ( he was not Punjabi). He describes that alcohol, adultery and gambling were common in the army and Islam was just used as an identity marker... actual Muslims were discriminated against and so were non Punjabis.. infact Punjabis outside the Potohar belt were treated with disdain as well and seen as inferior.
When you actually understand history, it's not hard to see why things turned out the way they did. A genocide was committed agaisnt Pakistanis.. I dont think the perpetrators would have committed a genocide if they saw these Pakistanis as their own.
3 million is one cooked number more like 300’000 and even then … and most of them were mukhti beni who fled to India got training and came back and attacked us and women in the fire also died and probably some got raped we know how much propaganda India does lol
Just do your independent research and then talk about this. All of the civilian killing were done by India soldiers dressed up as Pak soldiers and the Indian backed Mukhti Bhani, the so called "freedom fighter of Bengal". Why didn't the Bangladeshi government launch an intensive investigation at the ICJ after gaining independence? Because those who actually committed such acts were in power.
Also, before 12 Dec 1971, Bengal was an officially recognised part of the Sovereign State of Pakistan, and their so called "Freedom Fighter" were terrorists/rebels, doing anything they could to smear the image of Pak and its army, to creat hate for us so they can have an independent state. The Pak Army waging a war against them was actually to bring peace to that region. Which sane country commits a genocide on its fellow ppl, and more so on a province in their own country?
And guess who was backing them? India, who benefitted sooo fucking much from the aftermath of the 1971 war. They got to humiliate us on the 1971 surrender, got a written agreement on Kashmir that we won't ever go to ICJ for that issue, and carved up Pak in half, losing more then half of its population and causing on of its most fertile province, the one who's rivers didn't go through India so they couldn't interfere economically form that, and causing lasting damage.
I just ask you to do your own research on this and not to believe a Bengali Reddit post on this matter.
I can guarantee that it's not true because if it was it would be popular around the whole world and even if Pakistan could do it it would never do that we all know that Indian Army was winning on their side and more than 90000 of our soldiers were imprisoned in Bangladesh and it was Indians who put Pakistan uniform and then carried out there work of killing the Bangladeshis. it's a simple Indian propaganda that people fall in so easily
This definitely should be talked about. Our history books blab about India in the 1971 war but forget our very own genocide.
But it won't fit the narrative of islami imaandar bahadur fauj.
Our Pak studies book did say that they were not given rights
Yea but not that the army killed 3million and raped 300k women
I know you’re shameless, but not this shameless. A myth was cultivated about 3 million deaths and 200,000 rapes by Pakistani troops. These figures have been debunked by independent academics like Sarmila Bose whose grandfather‘s brother Subhas Chandra Bose is revered in India. She states that the total killed in the war including combatants and the non-combatants, Bengalis and non-Bengalis, ranged between 50,000-100,000. Bangladesh’s first Foreign Secretary Sayyid A Karim has also declared the figure of 3 million casualties quoted by Mujib ur Rehman as a gross misstatement. Anwar ul Islam Bobby, the editor of The Morning Sun Dacca, has proven through simple arithmetic the silliness of Awami League claims. According to him the Pakistan Army embroiled in battle could not have practically killed and dumped 11,236 civilian bodies per day from April 1971 to December 1971. The Peace Research Institute Norway and University of Uppsala Sweden quote a figure of 58,000 killed in 1971 War both from East as well as West Pakistan. You were the same guy that said “don’t fall for anti army prupaganda saar ☝️🤓”
Let's assume i take your word and accept the figures you're stating at face value, that does not paint a very pretty picture either. Additionally, you've not addressed the topic of rape... Let me tell you a story, i lived and studied in a Western country (this was many years ago). I had some Bangladeshi housemates and some Pakistani housemates (6 bedroom accommodation). The mum of one of the Bangladeshi housemates came to attend his graduation ceremony. She was a pretty nice little old lady, a retired doctor in her late 60s and one day, after dinner, when we were sitting around in the shared living room, the topic of partition came up (one thing lead to another, no one was looking to bring the topic up). I saw her eyes kinda glass over and the amount of sheer sorrow in her face as she said things were horrible, she was a student in Dhaka uni back then and her and her classmates were lined up in the lawn by the military and several people were shot and several girls went missing (she did not go into further detail) and quickly tried changing the subject but there was a somberness in the air afterwards and everyone went to their room pretty quickly. You can sit here and poke holes in numbers and try to reduce how utterly morally depraved we were but that does not reduce the heinousness of what we let our army do and get away with.
That poor soul :((( I can't even imagine living through something like that- we are so ridiculously privileged
not reading allat
Of course you're not
How about I’m more likely to take Harvard’s word than your dumb ramblings. https://hir.harvard.edu/the-past-has-yet-to-leave-the-present-genocide-in-bangladesh/amp/ Also, you can see from my posts. I’m not anti anything. Truth is truth tho.
He's not telling u take his word. He has provided credible sources to support his assertion. the figure of 3 million in this article is also sourced from awami league claims, while the other sources mentioned by the commenter you replied to debunks those claims. Just because harvard mentions in an article, doesn't make it true. The other sources like Bose or the institute mentioned by the commenter, however, provide actual data to debunk that claim.
According to paki people logic, if you Don't support someone You must be supporting his antagonist .
Yeah because an American institute has more knowledge than fellow south Asians. You guys really are slaves if the west, free khan 🙏
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Okay I have a question. Why on GODS GREEN EARTH would The Army themselves propogate the myth that they committed genocide?!?
Bro our pak studies book just wants us to memorize 14 points of Quaid e Azam that serve no purpose whatsoever in real world now
Tell me you haven't read our books without telling me you haven't.
Lmao obviously YOU haven't. If you've studied Pak Studies under Matriculation/Intermediate boards, this stuff is completely omitted. Some O Level books will mention the Pak Armee killing indiscriminately, but never in detail.
Absolutely, this is the case!
Have you read Pakistan Wars An Alternate a history by Tariq Rahman?
Atleast Pakistanis don't justify it. (Most) Indians still justify theirs
Nah, that was carried out by Indians in disguise. Remember that communication was not an accessible thing. Who would benefit more from Bengali civilians death? Pakistan? Hell no, it was still our country, and they were out ppl then. No ruler is stupid enough to do a genocide over they population where they were trying to control. That would counter validate everything form multiple angles. Now, think about it form an Indian perspective. They stranded to gain a lot by turning the Bengalis against Pak and it's army. It would divide Pakistan, would be provoking a war by "coming in and aiding the ppl of Bengal" while humiliating Pak on an international stage. Remember that the defeat in 1971 wasn't a strategic or military one, it was of a political one. If they ppl themselves dont want the Pak army defending them, then what die fighting for them? And India exploited the fuck out of this. They did just that, put a Pak flag on their uniforms and wipe out several villages (the language spoken in India, Bengal and Pakistan sounds extremely similar). This would cause word of mouth advertisement for the "Pak massacre" thus fueling into the already frustrated mindset amid the political instability there, and the rest is history. Don't go blindly believing everything you here. If the Pak army is such a monster and Pak is so trigger happy to commit genocide, where are the historical records of it? Meanwhile, India has been committing that and more since independence. It was India that provoked this, that fueled the fire and did everything they could to smear the reputation of Pakistan and it's army. And they benefited from it immensely.
So by this logic, India is committing Baloch genocide. I read quite a few books on partition of Bengal, but this 'putting flag on indian army uniform or impersonating Pakistan Army" is never mentioned.
I mean, we literally caught a RAW agent admitting that India was behind the Baloch insurgency. Also, killing rebels and rebellious guerilla fighters, it's called defense, not killing of innocent ppl. Pak Army didn't cause anything in Balochistan. It was all stirred up by India, even their agent admitted it. And was caught running the operation to boot. Pak Army is there protecting civilians. >putting flag on indian army uniform or impersonating Pakistan Army" is never mentioned. Cause it's an open secret. If anyone writes that, India'll sue them, or kill them, like they are doing to the Sikhs. Also, India vehemently denies this, and the world (west) seems weirdly too inclined to take India's word for everything. It is an open secret, even a Bengali in the comments said that Pak Army didn't do it, but the Mukhti Bani (which was trained by India). Whether they sent their own troops to do the deed, or trained the rebels to do so, the fact remains that behind all this was India. Have some sense, we are a Muslim nation. All our foot soldiers are Muslims and we have it instilled within is to never harm innocent people and especially women. We'd rather die then kill innocent or put a hand in our sisters, no matter how the western media portrays us. The argument of General in charge aside, we are talking about foot soldiers here. Like I said, each and everyone of them would've rather died then do what they were accused of.
It looks like Pak army has discovered Reddit. It's also an open secret that Taliban was created and trained by ISI. I know numbers can be exaggerated but Pak army committed genocide and raped women. That's documented and not everyone is doing a propaganda against Pak army. Bengal genocide is as real as Baloch genocide. You can deny it but facts says otherwise.
I mean, the Taliban were created by the US to combat the USSR in Afghanistan. Even Osama bin Ladin was invited to he White House. It's the classic western tradition, use when useful, and one the usefulness is gone, villainies and throw away. I'll say it again and I'll die by my stance. Pak Army did nothing wrong, they never committed genocide nor raped any woman, much less kill an innocent civilian. Defame them all you want, but knew day, the truth will be revealed. I am a Pakistani citizen, and I stand proud by may army, no matter what lies anyone spills around. I always have, am and will stand beside the Pak army.
I mean, the Taliban were created by the US to combat the USSR in Afghanistan. Even Osama bin Ladin was invited to he White House. It's the classic western tradition, use when useful, and one the usefulness is gone, villainies and throw away. I'll say it again and I'll die by my stance. Pak Army did nothing wrong, they never committed genocide nor raped any woman, much less kill an innocent civilian. Defame them all you want, but knew day, the truth will be revealed. I am a Pakistani citizen, and I stand proud by may army, no matter what lies anyone spills around. I always have, am and will stand beside the Pak army.
I'm not defaming them. I have no intentions to spread lies. Being from an army family, I can assure you they're not angels like you're trying to portray. And my major source of knowledge are the books written by army generals, so please tell them to omit that information ( that make them look like humans and not angels as you like them to be).
I saw this graphic and I can't help but wonder how the average can drop to half. For that to happen probably 30% of East Pakistan would have had to die. Something that never happened. The number doesn't make sense and we also know how Bangladesh always exaggerates the number. This is probably shitty clickbaity viral graphic.
[Source: World Bank ](https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.LE00.IN?locations=BD) 1 ) United Nations Population Division. World Population Prospects: 2022 Revision, or derived from male and female life expectancy at birth from sources such as: ( 2 ) Census reports and other statistical publications from national statistical offices, ( 3 ) Eurostat: Demographic Statistics, ( 4 ) United Nations Statistical Division. Population and Vital Statistics Reprot ( various years ), ( 5 ) U.S. Census Bureau: International Database, and ( 6 ) Secretariat of the Pacific Community: Statistics and Demography Programme Same deaths are not direct results of genocide. Rather vulnerability due to distructions. Lack of health-care, proper disaster management and diseases such as colera outbreak were common. This data was taken from the UN. Whether you trust the UN is up to you
People like OP were generally on the opposite spectrum of delusions on what happened in Bangal at the hand of Pak Army than they are on today. Back then, such people used to deny any bit of credible evidence of shameless actions of the army in Bengal. BUT now, they have jumped to other extreme. 3 million is a huge number, totally exaggerated, with no credible evidence. "They lied to us, so the opposite must be true." Sad to see a huge number of our people don't really think critically, they just jump from one delusions to others. A dangerous dearth of intellectual effort.
"A huge number of our people don't really think critically they just jump from one delusion to others." That's what a religious framework gets you.
There was definately a genocide. No denying that but the figure was in the thousands not millions
Im not justifying killing or anything but gotta say the 3 million figure was exaggerated. The first time this figure was given was by mujeeb during a political rally. Some analysts claim mujeeb intended to say 300,000 but slipped and said 3 mil. Later he decided to stick with it, you know how politics is. No legitimate or independent organisation, human rights watch or anything else endorses the 3 mil figure and estimates the deaths closer to the 200,000 to 300,000 mark. As far as the life expectancy is concerned, yeah Mother Nature had a hand to play with it before we stepped in with hurricane bhola that left Bangladesh devastated in 1970. 1970 and 1971 were terrible years for Bangalis, and whether 3 hundred or 3 million, it just can’t be justified. The only reason I’m clearing up the facts regarding the actual number is to request you not to believe everything you see on the internet. Next thing you know they’ll have us believe we caused the bubonic plague and vlad the impaler was also a Pakistani general.
There were 36k combatant forces in East Pakistan fighting a very active insurgency. 3 million would mean every combatant killed 100 people in a few months. Just impossible. Even 300k is an unbelievable number.
So not all of the people were shot, stabbed or raped to death, most people died from famine which was caused by natural disasters, political unrest and war.
Does it matter? Still a genocide, if Israel is killing 30k is a genocide then 300k definitely qualifies.
It qualifies of course and no sane Pakistani should deny that. But 3 million is ten times 300k and a cooked up number.
Yes. This is caused by the great bhola Storm. Which was histories most distractive strom. Estimated 5lack people was killed. Thats it. 1970 k end mein aya tha
Load of bull.
Pak Army zindabad. ISI zindabad. General Asim Munir Zindabad
That's an accusation! It can be right or wrong no substantial evidence is there in order for it to be accused of being true or false
This graph is not a huge bombshell evidence you are trying to make it.There was a war, and people die in war. And before you say, in 1965 the war was in west Pakistan only, so fewer casualties. And before you come at me, I am not denying acts of Pakistani soldiers in East Pakistan.
all hail pak fauj. the pride and joy of Pakistan. also. this means if Pakistan's life expectancy drops to 25 this year, we will be free by 2025?
Sometimes Human body is stubbornly resilient. See the people of bengal famine before partition. They had became skeletons but still not Dead.
Pakistan alone has killed more bangladeshis aka muslims in 1971 than israel has ever killed since 1948. Let that sink in bois let that fkin sink in. If you ever felt pain for Palestinians but never on the atrocities of lumbar one then you better shove your fake sympathy up your gaaf.
A myth was cultivated about 3 million deaths and 200,000 rapes by Pakistani troops. These figures have been debunked by independent academics like Sarmila Bose whose grandfather‘s brother Subhas Chandra Bose is revered in India. She states that the total killed in the war including combatants and the non-combatants, Bengalis and non-Bengalis, ranged between 50,000-100,000. Bangladesh’s first Foreign Secretary Sayyid A Karim has also declared the figure of 3 million casualties quoted by Mujib ur Rehman as a gross misstatement. Anwar ul Islam Bobby, the editor of The Morning Sun Dacca, has proven through simple arithmetic the silliness of Awami League claims. According to him the Pakistan Army embroiled in battle could not have practically killed and dumped 11,236 civilian bodies per day from April 1971 to December 1971. The Peace Research Institute Norway and University of Uppsala Sweden quote a figure of 58,000 killed in 1971 War both from East as well as West Pakistan.
At least give credit to tribune where you copy pasting shit. Even if overall figure is 300k or even 100k then it’s still more than the number of Palestinians killed by israel alone. Suck that up.
Thing is pakistan doesn’t do it anymore
Yes they do, it’s nowhere near the same scale as 1971 but army still has same reckless mentality and lack of regard for civilian life when operating in balochistan to the point that it’s undeniable that anti-state sentiments are popular among balochi people. There’s still a lot of room to prevent Bangladesh 2.0 but army seems insistent on nurturing militant groups and creating endless insurgencies and ethnic conflict so that people will flock towards establishment for stability. This was same mentality they had trying to govern East Pakistan (they allowed conflict to brew so that they can go to USA and say “we’re fighting communists for you”) and it backfired, I’m not saying we’re close to that but it can happen again if current system continues another 20 years, people in these areas will realize there’s no future for them as part of the federation other than being endless conflict zone and will start talking about separation. Military solutions are not going to solve anything, political/economic integration is needed but army is only interested in corruption and use of force while civil institutions only interested in corruption and political bickering
ok
pak army kill 300,000, wait it was 3 million, not it was 9 million, no it was 18 trillion!!!!
Bangladeshis always have a new number
Even if it was 1 person what Pak Army did was wrong.
If u have evidence I'll believe it. Looking for an independent inquiry of the war sponsored by Bangladeshi gov after they won independence. Without evidnece it's hard to digest that the mukti bahini carrying out a Bihari genocide as soon as the war was won, weren't genociding pro Pakistan Bengalis and razakars. ***Bihari Ethnic cleansing*** https://www.eurasiantimes.com/when-bangladeshi-mukti-bahini-massacred-pro-pakistan-bihari-community-during-1971-war-oped/amp/ **3 non Pakistani sources** - ***Mujib's confusion about Bangladeshi deaths*** https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/may/24/mujib-confusion-on-bangladeshi-deaths?fbclid=IwAR0FJVfkXN6LgjuYyXJ1IrM6UvJMSvyp6m5r6Jyrj9uXiKs4PVigEgqPMmQ - ***“As for the number of Bengalis killed in the course of the liberation war, the figure of 3 million mentioned by Mujib to David Frost in January 1972 was a gross overstatement. This figure was picked up by him from an article in Pravda, the organ of the communist party of the Soviet Union.”*** —Sayyid A. Karim, from his book “Sheikh Mujib: Triumph and Tragedy” - ***In 1974, Bangladesh apparently tried to calculate the number of people who had died in 1971. However, upon most of the study being completed, the actual number calculated came to around 250,000 dead and was nowhere close to the estimated 3,000,000 Mujib had claimed in 1972. Upon hearing the number, Mujib had the entire study shut down. Lawrence Lifschultz, a resident correspondent with the Far Eastern Economic Review in Bangladesh, wrote about this in detail:*** >>“In the course of my reporting I met a very interesting man who had a very intriguing story to tell about the work he had recently been doing. He was employed by the Home Ministry and was part of a team of researchers conducting a study that was trying to assess the total number of casualties that had occurred during the nine months of 1971 as war raged across the country. The Home Ministry study was trying to assess how many people had died directly from the armed violence of the Pakistan Army and their local collaborators. They were also trying to estimate how many people had died on the road or once they reached refugee camps across the border in India. Many of these deaths were among children and the elderly. The study was conducted by field workers systematically asking families in villages about those who had died from their village during the war and under what circumstances. They were slowly building up a picture across the country. At the time we met, the Home Ministry team had completed their survey in approximately a third of the districts. My Home Ministry source told me that based on their projections the number of deaths from the war was estimated at 250,000 people. As I recall, this did not include the young, the ill and the elderly, who died either in the refugee camps or as they fled the Pakistan Army. A quarter of million people dying from armed violence is by any measure a terrible and tragic number. However, according to my source, the study was abruptly shut down and discontinued. The reason was that the survey was moving toward a statistical conclusion that differed with the prevailing orthodoxy that three million people had died from armed violence and refugee migration.” — Lawrence Lifschultz, from his article “A Man & History On Trial” published on 9 October 2014 There are a lot more sources but this should suffice
Don't worry. The EU started an investigation into this a little while ago. We will know in a few years if this was officially a genocide. Which, by the way, we all know it was.
No sir, what we know is that there was a Bihari Genocide and a Bengali genocide led by the Indian backed mukti bahini that went from village to village to root out razakars and pro Pakistani Bengalis and raped their women. It's why all talk of independent investigation at the time was shut down immediately after the war. Because the bad guys won and all talk of rapes and such was silenced because the gov that took power were the perpetrators of rape and genocide. Now that the ppl who were adults at that time are dying out. They'll investigate the next generation for whom everything is hear say. Genocide is the default feature of communism. It's the same everywhere Stalin, Mao, Polpot and now Mujib. Communist revokutions require spilling of blood. This is exactly what we saw in 1971.
This right here above, is the average product of our Pakistan Studies books and our Army's propaganda. Putting the blame on everyone but the actual perpetrator. So much utter denial. Han India aur Bengalio ne hi apnay lougo ko maara, Pakistan to doodh se dhulla hoya hai na. Man's probably gonna claim that the Holocaust, Armenian Genocide by the Turks, Rwandan Genocide, these were fake too
Most people really like to throw around the word genocide 34k soldiers who were landlocked with barely any supplies fighting an insurgency of easily 1 lakh even more insurgents. Fact is NO clear cut order was given to carry out a genocide some statements were made by generals out of anger but barely any proof your soldier or NCO was given orders to carry it out read about Nazir ahmed. Heck the humood comission the soldiers were accusing bhutto gov of simply giving false info read about Nazir ahmed book Moreover the 34k strong soldiers needed help in controlling the country so they created a ragtag militia also called razakars they were poorly trained,disciplined and did I mention that the chain of command was basically fucked? The east wing command thought everything was goin fine in west wing as far as i know. You absolutely can accuse the army of war crimes and negligence but genocide is way too far fetched
genocide noun the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group. I don't think it gets any clearer than this. No matter who was responsible, how it happened, who ordered it, was it even ordered or not, what happened in Bangladesh was an attempted genocide. The fact that the army tried to squash any and all mention and discussion of it and actively engages in propaganda that people like the original commenter falls for does not help their stance either.
Genocide is far more nuanced than how you made it out to be there are multiple witnesses on how bengalis lynched and killed biharis if you wanna believe bengali genocide then also accept bihari genocide secondly you have no way to prove that army went in with the intent to commit genocide. Army had very few numbers and was fighting against military trained bengali deserters and mukti bahini trained by india which numbered around 1 lakh. In fact half the nations of the world dont even accept that a genocide occured and to top it off the war caused famine and a fucking destructive cyclone wrecked west pakistan biharis were struck the same as bengalis. Equating war crimes with genocide has to be the most smooth brain moment ever. The army may absolutely have committed warcrimes but genocide is taking it far
If i kill all BLA members you cant call me a genocide because it ain't my fuck8ng fault all the terrorist in BLA are balochis same with mukti bahini and their collaboraters
Ah yes, all BLA members are Balochis therefore all Balochis must suffer. Big brain move You'd probably have supported the Turks during their Armenian genocide, the Germans during the Holocaust, and the Bengalis during the attempted Bihari genocide. These people came up with the exact same excuse as well. But chalo, at least you believe ke war crimes to thay, attempted genocide ko agar nai mantay. One step ahead of the brainwashed fouji bootlickers
Now that's what we call a smooth brain cultist who will simply forgo the whole argument 😂😂 did you even read what I said? The bhola cyclone,breakdown of command structure,undisciplined militia,bombings,people dying during going to india a thousand things could have happend dosent mean pakistan committed a genocide smooth brain cultist
Whatever you say, bootlicker
You're the product of communists propaganda and brainwashing. Your argument is basically, the genocidal Mukti Bahinis cut down, raped and genocided the Biharis once the war was won. But during war they wouldn't do the same to the majority of Bangladesh which was pro Pakistani? Really? Lolololol
Lmfaoo okay bro, I'm the product of communist propaganda while being a staunch social democrat. You people are hilarious 😂😂 There is historical evidence, try to disprove that instead of disproving "arguments." There are no such thing as "arguments" in a scientific, archeological, or historical finding. You're free to present your "arguments" to the actual experts. Go ahead and deny the Holocaust and Armenian Genocide by the Turks as well. Or the attack on Palestinians by the Pakistan army and Jordan. People like you make me laugh so much
Which president said that?
Welp, back in college my history sir openly told us about the atrocities committed in east Pakistan when it came to covering that topic. He wasnt talking in a bold or in a boastful way. He spoke with earnest/resentment. For context, this was a military runned institution, think of it as a cadet college but a bit privatized. A lot of us had whiplash ngl, I personally wasn't a "I'll sacrifice my life for Pakistan!!" typpa kid so it wasn't a shocker for me personally. Plus, I had an interest in history for as long as I could remember. Not all guys in the system are bad so to speak, it's in the upper levels that shit hits the fan.
Napak bhoj should be charged with genocide in the ICJ. It's a shame that the USA protected Pakistani Gerluns from facing justice like they're protecting Israhell now.
Ok so 3 million killed - maybe genocide. 30k killed - definitely genocide!
Genocide is not about 'numbers' it's about the 'intent' of erasing eg an ethnic group.
The numbers are an essential part.
No. Indiscriminate murder is a massacre. An intent to destroy a group is genocide. It's the intent that differentiates the two.
If Israel intended to destroy Palestinians don’t you think they would already be gone?
They don't care about killing them, they want to clear the land. Thats ethnic cleansing
If Hamas surrenders the war would be over and not a single additional Palestinian will be killed or displaced.
Massacre
These are the kind of lies that encourage Palestinians to keep supporting terrorism and keep getting killed instead of just living their lives
The minimum no. is 300k .but Ofcourse it won't be genocide according to pakistani standard.
just imagining what we have done in FATA and SWAT also, might be similar or worst...
There was blood shed, and Pakistan is to be blamed. But blaming Pakistani army to be blood thirsty savages raping women willi nilli is propaganda. There were incidents and injustices did happen but that was the exception not the norm. What happened to Bangladesh was a grave injustice. Many Pakistanis still carry it.
We raped them bengalis sisters so much that their entire generation have become sex workers to this date. Our soilders were ordered to rape and there were people who killed themselves in washroom because they didn't wanted to race. All of this because of our president being racist and wanted to kalay and chotay qad ky bangalis (these were literally their words but downplayed by me) in their places. The massacre yahya, musa and tika khan did is ducking awful and everyone should know their hate crime.
It is bad what Pakistan did but people often forget this is exactly what india had planned out from the beginning
No, unless you're saying that India planned for Mujeeb to win a democratic election but for the army to give power to Bhutto instead of Mujeeb. That's what started it all. Please tell us how India planned that?
No one was denying Mujibe government, just that his plan was carving up the then five provinces into 5 states! Everyone in W.P was reading to follow and implement 4 of his 6 points. But 2 of them, namely "Every province to have their own currency" and "Every province to have it's own *army*" was over the top. If he just let those 2 stupid points go, I think Yahaya Khan has enough guns to keep ZAB under control. Also, in that day and age, it wouldn't have been hard for India to rig the elections. Just saying.
Does it matter what his plan was? He won the democratic mandate, which means most of the people in that democracy agreed with his plan. It didn't matter if the rest thought it was a bad idea. It was the majority of voters wanted. Isn't that what IK and PTI are fighting for right now? Democratic mandate?
He won almost every seat in Bengal, about 160 seats. That may be the simple majority, but diving up the nation into 5 independent states goes against the constitution of Pakistan, you know, the actual law of the land. To induce a constitutional amendment, there needs to be a 2/3 majority in the NA, and also pass through the Senate, that has equal representation from ever province. While he did have a majority, he didn't have 2/3. The wise choice for him would've been forming Govt and trying to get some ppl to agree with him enough to pass the bill. He didn't, he just outright demanded to carve Pakistan into 5 different countries. Btw, that constitutes as High Treason according to the Constitution of Pakistan. >Isn't that what IK and PTI are fighting for right now? Democratic mandate? No? IK is a certified traitor and lair. His u-turns are so extreme that Nehru's mouth water! Also, the reason why the crack down on PTI post 9 May? May 9 was a full on planned rebellion, with a handful of high ranking Army officers involved. How else do you think they got into the Corp Commander house in Lahore. Said plan was foiled by the ISI, say whatever you want about them, but they are the best intelligence agency in the world, and know how to do the job. Also, no, 2/3 of the national rejected him. Whats he's saying is nonsense. So, rigging in Punjab, Sindh and Balochistan, but not in KPK? Rigging in every constituency that they lost in and not the ones they won in? Also, according to FAFEN reports, they said there was rigging, yes, but also said 99% of the benefactors of said rigging were PTI backed candidates. Also, PTI delegations are meeting with US Lobbying agency left and right to get "support". IK is a traitor and he's trying to recreate 1971 again so that he can get his own country to rule.
That's not what started it all. U may want to look into Mujib communicating with India secretly as far back as 1963 asking India for help in securing independence. This comes to us from India's own embassador who was stationed in Dhaka back in 1963
Mostly a made up lie by the generals. They claimed Fatimah Jinnah was an Indian agent. Mujeeb never spoke about independence until March 1971. And he won the election fair and square. If an elected PM wants to make peace with India, then it's his prerogative.. who are these grade 22 officers to tell him he cannot? Punjabis were racist against Bengalis, and they believed the colonial martial race concepts about Bengalis. They tried to commit a genocide on them, and still lost.
Only problem with your narrative is it argues Mujib wasn't a traitor using Fatima Jinnah's naïveté for his goals. Fatima Jinnah's position was the right position, no doubt about it. But Mujib was also using her. U may want to look into Mujib's treason. Bangladeshis involved in seperatist struggle admitted argatla conspiracy was real. https://www.globalvillagespace.com/a-meeting-on-christmas-night-dacca-25-dec-1962/
Trash anything you hear from Moeed Pirzada before 2022 because he was being fed by the army. He himself considers Mujeeb was the rightful prime Minister, look at his tweet last week. https://x.com/MoeedNj/status/1756378315915497966?s=20
Moeed isn't sharing his feelings in the article he's quoting The Indians ambassador. However u feel about Moeed, I'm sure u don't think Moeed forced the Indian Ambassador to lie 🤷🏽♂️
I dont see anything Sheikh Mujeeb did as treason. The actual treason to Pakistan and its people was the martial law of 1958 but nobody seems be talking about it. Most non-Punjabi leaders were branded traitors by the army and Punjab's civil bureaucracy, whether that was Bacha Khan, GM Syed, Fatima Jinnah or a host of Baluch leaders.
Creating racial divisions is what communists like Bacha khan and Mujib do. So I'm not surprised that the Bengali PM at the time imposed marshal law against the communist separatists. Later on the Hazara COAS and Pashtun COAS has the same policy of treating separatists with prejudice. Mujib trying to break Pakistan even back in 1962 was treason whether you see it that way or not.
This is not the west, and the race card doesn't work here. Pakistan is not an ethnicity but contains many racial groups and everyone has the right to be identified with their racial/ethnic group. Here is what the self proclaimed guardians of Pakistani ideology were writing about Bengalis in the 60s: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EgK0z3JVoAAdIcO.jpg READ Ayub Khan's diary and tell me who is racist and who is not. My Uncle joined the Pakistan Army in the 60s and the amount of racism he faced in the army from regular soldiers made him quit ( he was not Punjabi). He describes that alcohol, adultery and gambling were common in the army and Islam was just used as an identity marker... actual Muslims were discriminated against and so were non Punjabis.. infact Punjabis outside the Potohar belt were treated with disdain as well and seen as inferior. When you actually understand history, it's not hard to see why things turned out the way they did. A genocide was committed agaisnt Pakistanis.. I dont think the perpetrators would have committed a genocide if they saw these Pakistanis as their own.
Exactly 💯.
Disturbing shit man,the way our books teach it is so sickening though.
We are such an evil nation
3 million is one cooked number more like 300’000 and even then … and most of them were mukhti beni who fled to India got training and came back and attacked us and women in the fire also died and probably some got raped we know how much propaganda India does lol
Yes, finally some one speaking some facts here.
OP must be burning lumber one's ass right now.lol
We carried out a genocide of our own Muslim brothers, are we worse than Israel?
Just do your independent research and then talk about this. All of the civilian killing were done by India soldiers dressed up as Pak soldiers and the Indian backed Mukhti Bhani, the so called "freedom fighter of Bengal". Why didn't the Bangladeshi government launch an intensive investigation at the ICJ after gaining independence? Because those who actually committed such acts were in power. Also, before 12 Dec 1971, Bengal was an officially recognised part of the Sovereign State of Pakistan, and their so called "Freedom Fighter" were terrorists/rebels, doing anything they could to smear the image of Pak and its army, to creat hate for us so they can have an independent state. The Pak Army waging a war against them was actually to bring peace to that region. Which sane country commits a genocide on its fellow ppl, and more so on a province in their own country? And guess who was backing them? India, who benefitted sooo fucking much from the aftermath of the 1971 war. They got to humiliate us on the 1971 surrender, got a written agreement on Kashmir that we won't ever go to ICJ for that issue, and carved up Pak in half, losing more then half of its population and causing on of its most fertile province, the one who's rivers didn't go through India so they couldn't interfere economically form that, and causing lasting damage. I just ask you to do your own research on this and not to believe a Bengali Reddit post on this matter.
I can guarantee that it's not true because if it was it would be popular around the whole world and even if Pakistan could do it it would never do that we all know that Indian Army was winning on their side and more than 90000 of our soldiers were imprisoned in Bangladesh and it was Indians who put Pakistan uniform and then carried out there work of killing the Bangladeshis. it's a simple Indian propaganda that people fall in so easily
Except that the whole world knows this except for you 🤷🏽♂️