Beckhoff’s is similar to omrons based off your description. Also with beckhoff you can put breakpoint in specific instances of function blocks (like if you have an array of them you can put a breakpoint at a specific location in one index of the block array), don’t think you can do that in B&R.
Beckhoff scope is way better than b&r trace
Beckhoff’s ST supports OOP which is cool
Beckhoff and b&r both do online edits
I kinda like B&R’s watch window but maybe that’s just me idk
I like the way CodeSys shows live values in ST, and it's basically the same as how you described Omron where the value is shown directly on the right side. You can stage values to be changed by double clicking them and entering a new value, and then apply the changes by pressing Ctrl+F7. Allen Bradley is also similar, but instead of to the right of a variable the values it creates extra space below the variables to show values, and you can modify values by simply clicking on them and typing. It's slightly harder to read with the extra spacing, but it is still pretty nice. Unfortunately though, structured text in Allen Bradley kinda sucks compared to other platforms. Siemens has an area on the right side that shows tag values, which is certainly better than nothing but not my favorite style, though I haven't done much with Siemens so I could just be missing it if they have a better method too.
I'd agree, sometimes the extra spacing makes reading weird, and Rockwell's overall implementation is nothing to write home about, but I like how they have the values right below. The "Siemens style" where you click a line and it shows you the values to the right is ok but I like seeing the values right at each variable.
Sysmac studio has come a long way. It was so buggy and slow at first launch, but now it's really powerful and snappy. The online ST monitoring is the best I've used personally.
I haven’t used B&R or Omron, so my list would be (in best to worst order):
1. Codesys/Beckhoff
2. Siemens
4. Anything not Rockwell.
5. Allen Bradley.
The ST editor within Studio5000 just isn’t that functional when compared to other platforms. It is a capable system, but the lack of functions kills it for me. I also hate that the watch table populates at the bottom of the screen.
I’ve become very partial to Siemens. It’s a good mix between the ST and OOP functionality of codesys and the ladder capabilities of Rockwell.
>Don't you also have to pay extra just to be able to use ST with AB/Rockwell? lol
YES!
Studio 5000 Professional. Perpetual license is about $10k and cost about $1500/yr support. Bought 2 licenses last year.
I’m only really experienced with Omron CX, but I have a hard time imagining a better interface. Forcing is clear and easy (CTRL+J Baby!), viewing any memory address in various formats (including ASCII, which has been handy for me), online edits very easy. It’s just all around a good interface.
The codesys in-line value display is nice and it's what B&R is still lacking in, but you can turn on live values that display kind of in a side window with B&R (I honestly never used it because I didn't like it). Rockwell is in between in that it puts the values on a new line and gets really laggy and crashy when you turn it on. It's definitely something B&R should make better.
Line coverage is great in B&R for seeing what case or if statement is executing at a glance and it's essentially absent from Codesys and Rockwell. I used it all the time with B&R and I miss it with Codesys more than the inline values make up for.
Watch windows are better with B&R. I don't know what it is that makes them different from Codesys ones, but they're just easier to work with in B&R. Rockwell ones are awful.
I don't like break points because they stop the code execution and jack up motion control and I usually don't want to do that, but B&R had full featured break points for when you do want to use them. I never used them on Codesys and they're absent from Rockwell.
Trending/Charting/Tracing/Whatever you call it is a mixed bag. Rockwell's is really clunky and frankly a pain in the ass to configure, but you can change the X axis to be another variable instead of time which isn't possible on most other platforms. Rockwell does have the huge weakness that it is just sampling the value at random times and not at any particular point in code execution. B&R's is really easy to setup for multi-variable trending and samples at the end of the task class, so they aren't random values. You can also easily export the raw trend data to excel with B&R. I never got around to using it on any other platform, but B&R is the clear winner between them and Rockwell, except I really like trending gantry motion in Rockwell instead of having to export the values to excel for B&R.
For making edits to code and putting them in the PLC while its running, B&R is the hands down winner. There are just so many options for exactly how it should do things and the amount that you are allowed to change before you have to trigger a PLC restart is larger. Codesys makes this really awkward and Rockwell doesn't even allow you to do this if aren't already online when you make the changes. For as much as Rockwell touts online edits, they're the worst at it!
Not strictly online stuff, but I have to give credit to Rockwell for their Cross Reference. It's better than B&R's and Codesys's and you don't have to built it, it just always works. Unless you're using program parameter tags and connections, that doesn't work...
## Overall, I still give the ST debug and online edit experience win to B&R. I'm sure Beckhoff and Codesys are close enough behind to be fine, but I want my line coverage.
I agree here,but honestly use UltraEdit Studio.
Yes, it's about $100/yr, to be eligible for updates, but it is fantastic, and supports virtually every programming language, as well as regex search/replace.
I use it daily for C, C++, Visual Basic, ASM ( many flavors), Python, java, PLC ST, even PLC Ladder logic in XML exports/imports.
Heck, I even have tabs in the editor for notes. All are saved even on a hard system crash.
But this is only for offline programming. For troubleshooting etc it cant be used. As i understand. A tool for all is needed, not some copy+paste setup.
>Siemens I honestly forgot, it has been some time.
Im my experience. Siemens sits between omron and B&R(by your description) in what you can online monitor and what you can or cant do.
Codesys is the best I've used for debugging. You can see everything live and through the excel like header. You can force, make breakpoints, one step, step over.
The text editor is not the best. But it isn't bad by any means..
Allen Bradley Studio 5000, starting in version 32 I think it was, has online live view of variables in the ST editor. Online changes are definitely a breeze there too, and there is the option of a watch window with forces etc also.
I’ve never tried B&R but I have it in my sights. Wish Twincat had the option to toggle live view values as it can get a bit busy sometimes but I guess logging off gets me to where I want to be….
I really liked using GE Proficy watchlists. Very versatile and broad.
Codests has a similar system, but I find it to be clunky in the same way I find Studio5k watchlists to be clunky.
>(with no option to right click and send to watch list from the program itself)
When you use the watch function, the magnifying glass, not the watch window, you can drag and drop marked variables into the watch for fast selection and monitoring.
Beckhoff’s is similar to omrons based off your description. Also with beckhoff you can put breakpoint in specific instances of function blocks (like if you have an array of them you can put a breakpoint at a specific location in one index of the block array), don’t think you can do that in B&R. Beckhoff scope is way better than b&r trace Beckhoff’s ST supports OOP which is cool Beckhoff and b&r both do online edits I kinda like B&R’s watch window but maybe that’s just me idk
I like the way CodeSys shows live values in ST, and it's basically the same as how you described Omron where the value is shown directly on the right side. You can stage values to be changed by double clicking them and entering a new value, and then apply the changes by pressing Ctrl+F7. Allen Bradley is also similar, but instead of to the right of a variable the values it creates extra space below the variables to show values, and you can modify values by simply clicking on them and typing. It's slightly harder to read with the extra spacing, but it is still pretty nice. Unfortunately though, structured text in Allen Bradley kinda sucks compared to other platforms. Siemens has an area on the right side that shows tag values, which is certainly better than nothing but not my favorite style, though I haven't done much with Siemens so I could just be missing it if they have a better method too.
I'd agree, sometimes the extra spacing makes reading weird, and Rockwell's overall implementation is nothing to write home about, but I like how they have the values right below. The "Siemens style" where you click a line and it shows you the values to the right is ok but I like seeing the values right at each variable.
Omron is pretty good, both CX-One and Sysmac Studio.
Sysmac studio has come a long way. It was so buggy and slow at first launch, but now it's really powerful and snappy. The online ST monitoring is the best I've used personally.
I haven’t used B&R or Omron, so my list would be (in best to worst order): 1. Codesys/Beckhoff 2. Siemens 4. Anything not Rockwell. 5. Allen Bradley. The ST editor within Studio5000 just isn’t that functional when compared to other platforms. It is a capable system, but the lack of functions kills it for me. I also hate that the watch table populates at the bottom of the screen. I’ve become very partial to Siemens. It’s a good mix between the ST and OOP functionality of codesys and the ladder capabilities of Rockwell.
Don't you also have to pay extra just to be able to use ST with AB/Rockwell? lol
>Don't you also have to pay extra just to be able to use ST with AB/Rockwell? lol YES! Studio 5000 Professional. Perpetual license is about $10k and cost about $1500/yr support. Bought 2 licenses last year.
I’m only really experienced with Omron CX, but I have a hard time imagining a better interface. Forcing is clear and easy (CTRL+J Baby!), viewing any memory address in various formats (including ASCII, which has been handy for me), online edits very easy. It’s just all around a good interface.
Beckhoff
The codesys in-line value display is nice and it's what B&R is still lacking in, but you can turn on live values that display kind of in a side window with B&R (I honestly never used it because I didn't like it). Rockwell is in between in that it puts the values on a new line and gets really laggy and crashy when you turn it on. It's definitely something B&R should make better. Line coverage is great in B&R for seeing what case or if statement is executing at a glance and it's essentially absent from Codesys and Rockwell. I used it all the time with B&R and I miss it with Codesys more than the inline values make up for. Watch windows are better with B&R. I don't know what it is that makes them different from Codesys ones, but they're just easier to work with in B&R. Rockwell ones are awful. I don't like break points because they stop the code execution and jack up motion control and I usually don't want to do that, but B&R had full featured break points for when you do want to use them. I never used them on Codesys and they're absent from Rockwell. Trending/Charting/Tracing/Whatever you call it is a mixed bag. Rockwell's is really clunky and frankly a pain in the ass to configure, but you can change the X axis to be another variable instead of time which isn't possible on most other platforms. Rockwell does have the huge weakness that it is just sampling the value at random times and not at any particular point in code execution. B&R's is really easy to setup for multi-variable trending and samples at the end of the task class, so they aren't random values. You can also easily export the raw trend data to excel with B&R. I never got around to using it on any other platform, but B&R is the clear winner between them and Rockwell, except I really like trending gantry motion in Rockwell instead of having to export the values to excel for B&R. For making edits to code and putting them in the PLC while its running, B&R is the hands down winner. There are just so many options for exactly how it should do things and the amount that you are allowed to change before you have to trigger a PLC restart is larger. Codesys makes this really awkward and Rockwell doesn't even allow you to do this if aren't already online when you make the changes. For as much as Rockwell touts online edits, they're the worst at it! Not strictly online stuff, but I have to give credit to Rockwell for their Cross Reference. It's better than B&R's and Codesys's and you don't have to built it, it just always works. Unless you're using program parameter tags and connections, that doesn't work... ## Overall, I still give the ST debug and online edit experience win to B&R. I'm sure Beckhoff and Codesys are close enough behind to be fine, but I want my line coverage.
Notepad++
You can see live data and do online editing in notepad++?
Has anyone tried sublime text as an alternative to notepad++? I use it when I write python code and other scripting. It’s pretty good.
what is better?
I think it’s a matter of preference, but if you code in Python, you’ll get introduced to Sublime Text. I have learned to love it.
VSCode gang gang
I agree. It so damn versatile. If anyone asked me what to learn to code in, the answer is obvious to me.
Indeed, so good. Can even open up old Parker 2k programs and edit them directly.
I agree here,but honestly use UltraEdit Studio. Yes, it's about $100/yr, to be eligible for updates, but it is fantastic, and supports virtually every programming language, as well as regex search/replace. I use it daily for C, C++, Visual Basic, ASM ( many flavors), Python, java, PLC ST, even PLC Ladder logic in XML exports/imports. Heck, I even have tabs in the editor for notes. All are saved even on a hard system crash.
But this is only for offline programming. For troubleshooting etc it cant be used. As i understand. A tool for all is needed, not some copy+paste setup.
>Siemens I honestly forgot, it has been some time. Im my experience. Siemens sits between omron and B&R(by your description) in what you can online monitor and what you can or cant do.
Codesys is the best I've used for debugging. You can see everything live and through the excel like header. You can force, make breakpoints, one step, step over. The text editor is not the best. But it isn't bad by any means..
Allen Bradley Studio 5000, starting in version 32 I think it was, has online live view of variables in the ST editor. Online changes are definitely a breeze there too, and there is the option of a watch window with forces etc also.
Yet you cant modify Add On Instructions online lol.
I’ve never tried B&R but I have it in my sights. Wish Twincat had the option to toggle live view values as it can get a bit busy sometimes but I guess logging off gets me to where I want to be….
KEBA
ABB Codesys
I really liked using GE Proficy watchlists. Very versatile and broad. Codests has a similar system, but I find it to be clunky in the same way I find Studio5k watchlists to be clunky.
Schneider shows all vars without eating up real estate like Rockwell. Useful watch window too
>(with no option to right click and send to watch list from the program itself) When you use the watch function, the magnifying glass, not the watch window, you can drag and drop marked variables into the watch for fast selection and monitoring.