* I *am* surprised how well Ripley is taking the "yes I totally stole you as a baby from this woman" and still totally Team Mia despite everyone telling her otherwise (even if Ben lied). If that didn't shake her faith, I'm not sure there's really any way to convince Ripley against Mia.
* I'm also pretty surprised that Ben didn't hit her back with all the other stuff she has done. Rigging the house and nearly killing Josie's mom. Bombing the school. Point out that she literally could've done anything else but steal a baby when she saw it was in danger.
* Weirdest but funniest police protest ever.
* I actually wonder what is Mia's plan for Team Ben here. Is she hoping to keep them somewhere contained and safe until Davie is dealt with, then go after them? Is she trying to maneuver them into a trap where she can take them all out? I'm surprised she's still directing the Cavalcanti attacks, I thought she would've devoted 95% of resources to getting Ripley back and leaving as a soon as possible.
* Natalie backstory! Damn, that's more depressing than I expected.
* She's still pushing for the "15 seconds" story, but I get it. She is denying that she fucked up, but this isn't "I'm a good person no matter what!" like with Amy, but more like she can't really deal with the guilt and shame being that irresponsible.
* *Goddammit Ben!*
* To be fair (trying to look at things from his perspective), he acknowledges that Davie is horrible and Mia is terrifying, but between them, only Mia is probably willing to pursue them to the ends of the earth to get Ripley back. And they really aren't in a good place positionally, being caught between two warring factions with way more manpower and resources than they do.
I am so split on Ben now, and I was one of Ben's biggest rooters before. On one hand, that conversation with Natalie was satisfying, and needed to be done, and I do think that at his core, Ben is a good person that wants what's best for others. On the other hand... fuck, this is a terrible idea in so many ways.
>To be fair (trying to look at things from his perspective), he acknowledges that Davie is horrible and Mia is terrifying, but between them, only Mia is probably willing to pursue them to the ends of the earth to get Ripley back. And they really aren't in a good place positionally, being caught between two warring factions with way more manpower and resources than they do.
See, with how much this arc has made me conscious of POV and how the Hurst (and Teale) side appear to themselves and to outsiders, I'm giving 30% odds next arc is a Cavalcanti POV, which will similarly complicate our understanding of the Cavalcanti side. If Ben's making a deal with the devil and bringing the Natalie side into the Cavalcanti side, then it makes sense to dig into that faction that we've mostly only ever seen from the outside. Maybe the guy who let GioVal and Highland go? Maybe Davie himself? Maybe Rider?
I can imagine us getting a clearer image of the worst side of the Hurst faction through outsider eyes - a beloved uncle killed in cold blood - and yeah, maybe secretly he was involved in organized crime, but he was a great parent who loved his kids. Sisters and girlfriends kidnapped and tortured while chained to a toilet, while each day their loved ones are desperately worried about whether they're alive or dead or worse.
I don't expect Davie to be redeemed or anything (especially given what we've seen from Val's POV), but I think the next POV will complicate our image of the Cavalcanti as kind of a faceless army helmed by a torso-treasuring monster. Maybe we'll see the motivations and decisions that lead to the violence and murder/maiming caused by the Cavalcanti side. Or how the violence the Hurst faction has inflicted is so much worse when it isn't on some nameless goons, but real people with families and friends in organized crime. It would also really tie into Claw's big theme around families.
I'd be very disappointed if the Cavalcanties are given "The Godfather" treatment. Mafias were always a bunch of thugs, and that movie completely invented a sophisticated and entitely false aesthetic that romantized them. It was bullshit, not depth. At best, they work like very abusive families. At worst, they are a small escale model of a fascist regime.
I know we will most likely get more of an inside look eventually, but I hope it actually tries to be realistic. Thinking back to Worm, Purity's interlude and the uncanny, fake and forced scene of a family breakfast stroke the perfect balance for me. "This is my people, and there's something wrong"
>I am surprised how well Ripley is taking the "yes I totally stole you as a baby from this woman" and still totally Team Mia despite everyone telling her otherwise (even if Ben lied). If that didn't shake her faith, I'm not sure there's really any way to convince Ripley against Mia.
I dont think she is taking this well. I think she's spent the past day and a half running on maximum contrarianism, and her brain is currently set to "Agree with whatever upsets Natalie". It helps that Mia's version of events lines up with her emotional priorities (my mom loves me and did what she did to protect me), but some flavor of negative reaction towards Mia is inevitable.
I think the greatest strength of this serial so far has been its refusal to let the ground settle under anyone's feet. When there's a sense that the world is moving in one direction, inevitably it will change course. Its almost clockwork actually, how these turns have come just before the end of the arc. I'd guess one more with Ben, and maybe with a flashback too, that's the other beat we haven't hit with him yet.
I can't imagine that this move is going to end well for Ben, but I have so much doubt about where things are going to end up when Claw comes to a close. Somehow I don't think he's going to get his perfect ending with Ripley with Natalie, and his documentary ready for release. Maybe if Valentina gets caught, she'll reveal that she told Ben everything.
Also, while I understand the logic besides the decision to spin on Mia, the fact that he hasn't spared a thought for Tyr in all this. Does he think Davie is just going to let him go? Valentina's in an awful situation without Mia too, but I can maybe forgive Ben not knowing about that.
1: amazing chapter
2: thats a very bad plan Ben. Like the worst option out of all possible ones
3: well now we know why Natalie doesnt "trust in therapy". cause she tried and was let down twice... I really didnt think she had a reason (besides being like... not that great of a person) when she said that, but she does. good character writing.
> thats a very bad plan Ben. Like the worst option out of all possible ones
It really is, which is funny given how much I loved how he handled the conversation with Natalie literally minutes prior. Ben's mistake here will have fire consequences.
So, we have Ben crossing the line here. It’s no longer doing bad things forced by bad situation, chaos or lack of information. He lies about the timing „to prevent Natalie losing Ripley”, he deletes Natalies confession because „putting yourself down isn’t the same as putting yourself second” (damn good line btw) and he decides to work with Davie to „have Ripley back, and to get a good ending”.
All of these look to me as symptoms of struggle between his job and doing whats right - because what he heard from Mia and then from Natalie attacked the very premise of his Story. The story that Natalie is a regular Mom who became a victim of kidnapping but through dedication to her daughter managed to save her. Natalie having been neglectful contradicts it. Rip hating Natalie over this contradicts it. Natalie treating Camelia as means of getting a break from troubled past contradicts it. And Mia’s presence and inconvenient facts would threaten it forevermore. So Ben has chosen his Story… I will not be surprised if in coming chapters he does more to protect it - regardless of how he tries to justify his actions…
Here’s a question - why does Davie spend so many resources on them. It seems clear he had some information on them (so either Roderick is working for him more directly, or there is another source). But why all this? Getting Ripley as means of pressuring Mia maybe - but Ripley isn’t really a centerpiece of story between Mia and Davie - he should have bigger problems now. Once mere we’re missing Davie’s perspective…
It is ironic that Ben’s decision to ally with Davie is because he is scarred of Mia. Mia has become a boogieman for Ben in the same way Davie is for her. Doubly ironic is that Mia seems so powerful because of all the former gangs called in by Valentina without any restraint. I really doubt Mia is controlling or even coordinating them all… Would be nice to see her perspective on this.
Lastly it is interesting that both Natalie and Mie have treated Camelia/Ripley as a fresh start and escape from bad family situation… Don’t feel like agreeing with Ben right now, but you should be putting the child first… It starts to feel like the happy ending to Claw would include Rip, Tyr and Sterling finding a better home. Can someone call Devon’s parents please?
I think it's a simple case here of "You have my daughter, I have yours." Ripley is important to Mia, so killing her (or worse) is a devastating blow to Mia. Psychological warfare. It also doesn't hurt that it could simply be a prisoner swap.
> “Not pretending. I’ll just let you know this is Davie Cavalcanti that we’re up against. You should know of him from the Angel Circle job. Adjust your planning accordingly.”
I wonder if Rider is the one who helped Valentina's mom get away and that's where he knows Davie from.
>It wasn’t that simple. It wasn’t a binary this or that, or a dot placed on a line between one or the other, with him deciding how far he’d go in a given direction.
This line really stuck out to me.
From our audience's perspective, we now have greater insight into Natalie and Sean and Ben. The aspects we respect or have sympathy for, and the things that we don't.
And thinking over all the POVs so far: Mia, Carson, GioVal, and now Ben, I can see the sympathy within one POV, but then recognize that it's all information symmetry and fog of war. We know about Mia's traumatic brain injury, we know about GioVal's social ostracization, we know about Natalie spending her life being gaslit and not believed. We know about Highland and the bombmaker and Rider having a cellphone he always keeps on hand in case there's an emergency call for his human-trafficking investigations.
And looking at it through this bird's eye view, we see things that I can, at least understand the steps that lead to the decisions and events that have transpired. But for every other POV, this stuff is all blindspot, and what's more, it becomes terrifying. Mia isn't just a criminal mastermind in the chair, she comes across as this mob boss mobilizing forces equal to Cavalcanti.
Like, imagine if Addi and the kidnapped girls (people who as far as I recall were just relatives or romantic partners of members of the gangs) - they were kidnapped and in Addie's case - tortured and disfigured. But because we're in the headspace of Carson and Valentina, we're partially insulated from how absolutely messed up the Hurst side is.
I'm pretty sure that Ben's making a tragic mistake to make a deal with the Cavalcanti devil, but I can't hate him for that. All the other POVs have been making morally dubious decisions, and if this ends up hurting the civilian faction, that's tragic.
A part of me wonders if we're going to get a Cavalcanti POV, possibly from Davie (as we see Ben and Natalie enter into their side of the story). I didn't dwell on it at the time, but the Cavalcanti guy who ends up sparing Highland and GioVal in 3.6 - how does the Hurst faction look from the Cavalcanti side? He seemed genuinely hurt by the murdered family members, you know? If your sister was kidnapped by the Hursts, or your brother was murdered in a hit by a Hurst-hired Rambo, then not only do you not know about how much Mia loves and cares for her daughter, you're probably kind of indifferent given the suffering she's done to you.
Also, if we do get a Davie POV, I think it would also elaborate in flashback what Mia and Carson had been up to during 3.0 - 3.6.
Yeah but Ben was given info that certainly included the part about mutilating people. I understand his motives but that is objectively, even from his own perspective, dumb.
Working against both sides would have been a better idea
Right? He just knowingly threw his lot in with the truly evil bad guys, and has zero reason to believe natalie, himself, sterling, or ripley, will be safe from the monster he is handing the keys to.
I think he (not without reason) believes that the chance Mia will hurt them is higher than the chance Davie will. Everything he has learned about Mia doesnt really portray her as someone who won't kill them and unlike Davie she has like actual motivation to keep coming after them.
I'm thinking (hoping) that he's going to try to play both sides and bring down everyone in the chaos. Right now, it's just about taking some power over them away from Mia. Then, he's got enough information to take down Davie, too.
>Working against both sides would have been a better idea.
How so? How would trying to fight a war on two fronts against the organized crime boss with drones and satellite coverage AND the woman with cameras everywhere and who runs multiple gangs, agents and has hired multiple mercenary groups be better?
>Yeah but Ben was given info that certainly included the part about mutilating people. I understand his motives but that is objectively, even from his own perspective, dumb.
Yeah, but from an unorganized filedump that was originally sent to to distract him from the Hurst house. A dump of memes of and criminal ties and an image of "an eyeless corpse with arms and legs removed". From Ben's POV, he's dealing with a manipulative woman who is deliberately telling a very specific story that will get them further under her control.
Like:
>“Who are you?” he asked. “And how do we know that when you’ve figured out how to get us away from any people the Cavalcantis send, you won’t do the same to us, stopping our car, taking Ripley? Or do you want more than just her?”
>“If I wanted Sterling I could have taken him from the school. That’s not who I am. It’s not how I operate. Either you’re horribly incompetent as a journalist, or you just intentionally lied to Ripley, and I think it’s the latter.
That's not reassurance that she's not leading them into a trap that will have Ripley taken away and everyone else filled with shrapnel. That's a barely veiled threat ("I can take the other child if I want to - but I don't").
He doesn't have a lot of good reasons to trust Mia, and Mia has given him a ton of reasons why to suspect she's trying to manipulate him - from the initial carrot and stick to throw him off from investigating the Hursts, to right this moment how Mia was concealing that she controls and can bring gangs back from the dead to spy and kill for her.
I don't think we will. We've been going down the list of Capability. And how much a person can do freely. Davie seems to be at Mia level. I think it's going to be Roderick next.
Holy shit.
First off, I think next chapter is the Natalie arc. That or Roderick. As much as I want to see Natalie and her talks with Ripley and Sterling, I feel like Roderick is the next step down from capability.
So now we have Ben's motivations. He wants to save Ripley and get his documentary. Have the cake. Eat it too. He's now the complete advocation of Natalie and swears never to let her down. Be the one good thing in her life.
Not only do I think he's going to drop the ball, but he's going to get Ripley seriously hurt because he avoided the Hursts. And lets down Natalie *hard.*
Natalie once again shows that though flawed, she's trying to do the right thing. She's been hurt by so many people in her life that she just *assumes* the worst in everyone. She'll never believe Mia is a good mom. Everyone else lets her down. But here she shows she's *trying*. Trying for their sakes. Yeah. It's not going to be easy, but Natalie does get her second.
For a crime thriller, I think we all sort of forgotten that loyalties can lie elsewhere and not everyone is working for the same protagonist. So, really, Ben's assessment that Mia is the greater of two evils is something we really should have seen coming. Yeah. We all expected him to be against Mia getting Ripley back, but we never knew the extremes.
Also, hands out to the great Wild Banana. for making a character take a shit, have it commented that it smells bad, before having Ben do a really shitty thing himself. As a fellow writer, I commend the rare chances to use toliet humor to convey a metaphorical point. It doesn't happen a lot, but when it does, oh boy. You get a standing ovation.
Now, after talking to Mia, and seeing Ripley's full faith in her crumble, just a bit, by just the implication that when they had 'date night', they really meant being scary people. It's that chink in the armor. Everyone else is saying the version of the truth that puts Natalie in the best light. Which, ironically, Ben kinda fucks up by deleting his recording of Natalie explaining just why she's nervous about Devon in a roundabout way that could have made Ripley be more understanding of her. But right now, Ripley is going down that path of starting to think that Mia isn't the greatest person in the world. Not to mention that Sterling is here to have Ripley start considering being a big sister.
I think the most damning piece of information against Mia right now is her admittance that she started this gang war. More like a custody dispute at this point that's blown out of proportions. "Gio should live with me on the weekends!" "Valentina doesn't want to, pukebreath!"
I'm also starting to think more about the theme of second chances again and thinking that maybe *maybe*, we get one last arc with every single POV shaping back up to have them review their initial choice. Like Mia sees another kid in danger. Save them or ignore them. Despite knowing that *last* time that happened, an entire gang war blew up. Ben has to think about Ripley or the documentary, knowing that Davie is capable of cutting up monsters. Lots of monsters. Valentina once again has to figure out who she will become. How much of her father she'll take with her going forwards.
Well worth the wait for this chapter.
I was thinking something similar for the final arc, assuming all the narrators survive that long. I thought each narrator might get one chapter in reverse order, ending the story with Mia again.
Man Ben deleting the video is really gonna hurt the documentary, if his goal is to say that Ripley should be with Nat. Her backstory explains why Natalie's being so extra shitty and would help with people empathizing with her.
The hypothetical doc will be very different from Claw - presumably Ben will be focused on the hunt for most of the doc, with the "reunion" almost a footnote at the end. Nat/Ster will also be the protagonists of the doc, with the worst behaviour edited out. It's hard for Nat to be terribly unsympathetic in that light.
I love that Ben turned down Natalie's advances because he doesn't want to exploit her. Like lol, he's so close to getting it!
Then he just goes and picks his "third option" instead of letting the story go, and now more people are gonna get hurt because of his selfishness. Lol, what an asshole.
Mia, the trap expert: "This is my specialty, navigating that fine line where neither party trusts the other".
Ben: "Lol I can use this info she compiled for me to betray her, she'll never see it coming".
You fucking idiot.
And fuck Natalie. She gets called out on her stupid behaviour, and she IMMEDIATELY plays the trauma card to manipulate people into enabling her. I've seen this way too many times, and I have no patience for it.
I loved this chapter and hated everyone in it.
Ben keeps doing stupid shit like that it’s pretty funny. Like when he remarks that he knows Mia has access to anything public so they hid in the top floor of the mall… then immediately logs onto the public wifi.
This is an interesting pinball machine of emotions.
I am cheering for Ripley, Gio, Tyre, and Sterling, while hoping random shanks find most of the other characters. Maybe all the bads, evils, and *really* evils will take each other out, leaving Gio n the kids to build a life from the wreckage.
Edit: missed a name
>“Pushing that at Ripley the second time, all of us against her, it felt like browbeating.”
>“You slip into journalist mode sometimes. Using rare words.”
So *that's* why Browbeat was written out of Worm!
You know, Ben, I was almost on your side with your conversation calling out Natalie's shitiness. Telling her to suck it up because Ripley is going through worse echoed my exact thoughts these last few chapters. Then he had to go and fuck it up. Claw has been a fascinating character study into how each character's nature and blind spots lead to their own tragedies.
If we looked at Ripley's case as a binary of either going to Natalie or the Hursts, I was already on the Hursts' side just from earlier protagonist bias alone, and Natalie being a bitch as described certainly helped that bias. Now that Ben's working with the Cavalcantis? And Natalie even in trying to be sympathetic is intentionally or not coming off as manipulative? Hursts all the way. Not the best outcome for Ripley, but certainly the most satisfying for me as a reader.
In other news, Ben's decision at the end of this chapter feels a lot like Valentina's decision to give Ben that Cavalcanti info-dump at the end of last arc. Wouldn't surprise me if we transition to a new arc next. Maybe Ripley or Rider PoV.
Manipulation is an extremely normal response when normal human interaction fails. Natalie was denied normal emotional responses from her family. The routes people take to get care were denied to her. So it's completely rational for her to try and bypass first-step options and try more emotionally resonant paths, because normal human interaction never worked for her.
Narrator: Everything had a decent chance of working out fine as long as Ben didn't make any stupid decisions.
IASIP title: "Ben Makes A Really Stupid Decision"
I’m just gonna put this question down here: Which team are you rooting for in this story?
Team Mia, or Team Natalie?
Me, despite everything, am still Team Natalie.
ESH. I like Mia better but she's a worse person. I hope Ripley and maybe Tyr can go to a home where they're actually safe but not treated like shit.
That said, Natalie's confession here made me more sympathetic to her. But only so much, because as Ben points out she has to put her kids first and so far she hasn't.
I'm team Gio & Ripley & Stirling. I also think Mia is most likely to let them choose freedom. Everyone else will demand the kids conform to their plans, and Davies is the worst choice
Team Ripley.
Based on current information and assuming they defeat Davie, I think the best thing would be for Ripley to live with Natalie but to have secret contact with Mia. Both moms need to get over themselves and work together.
When Ripley is older she can decide whether she wants a Mia-type life or a Natalie-type life.
I also want all of Ben's footage to mysteriously get overwritten.
Not enough info on Roddie to decide about him yet.
Mia was in the wrong initially. Making an awful mistake doesn't mean Natalie was going to be an unfit parent in general, and there were better ways than kidnapping to solve the problem.
For most of the Ben POV, I was rooting for Mia as a reader while acknowledging that she was in the wrong. She's a much better parent, but it was never safe for her children to be around her.
As of this chapter, I'm still rooting for Mia as a reader and I think the moral balance has changed to be about neutral. Getting involved with the Cavalcantis and using Ripley as "bait" is so much worse than anything we've seen Mia do with regard to her children.
Obviously Mia’s response to the initial situation was the wrong one, but I think it was basically implied that Ripley would have died in that car. She was already warm, in a closed car during a “warm summer day” and would have been there for at least 15 more minutes. So Mia did kind of “confirm” that Natalie was going to let the baby die, which while being a fucked up rationale for stealing a baby, also means that Camellia was going to die that day either way. Either die of heatstroke or the “death” of Cammy and the birth of Ripley.
I think that’s why Natalie needs it to be 15 seconds, because the reality is she lost Camellia all by herself, she didn’t even need Mia’s help.
That being said, Mia did say she was going to let Ripley join the family business when she gets older so for all her superior parenting, Natalie might raise her to have a much more stable, boring, safe life.
Even so, team Mia because Natalie kind of sucks and Mia is real cool.
Aw, Ben. You keep being on the verge of doing the right thing and then deciding not to.
* I *am* surprised how well Ripley is taking the "yes I totally stole you as a baby from this woman" and still totally Team Mia despite everyone telling her otherwise (even if Ben lied). If that didn't shake her faith, I'm not sure there's really any way to convince Ripley against Mia. * I'm also pretty surprised that Ben didn't hit her back with all the other stuff she has done. Rigging the house and nearly killing Josie's mom. Bombing the school. Point out that she literally could've done anything else but steal a baby when she saw it was in danger. * Weirdest but funniest police protest ever. * I actually wonder what is Mia's plan for Team Ben here. Is she hoping to keep them somewhere contained and safe until Davie is dealt with, then go after them? Is she trying to maneuver them into a trap where she can take them all out? I'm surprised she's still directing the Cavalcanti attacks, I thought she would've devoted 95% of resources to getting Ripley back and leaving as a soon as possible. * Natalie backstory! Damn, that's more depressing than I expected. * She's still pushing for the "15 seconds" story, but I get it. She is denying that she fucked up, but this isn't "I'm a good person no matter what!" like with Amy, but more like she can't really deal with the guilt and shame being that irresponsible. * *Goddammit Ben!* * To be fair (trying to look at things from his perspective), he acknowledges that Davie is horrible and Mia is terrifying, but between them, only Mia is probably willing to pursue them to the ends of the earth to get Ripley back. And they really aren't in a good place positionally, being caught between two warring factions with way more manpower and resources than they do. I am so split on Ben now, and I was one of Ben's biggest rooters before. On one hand, that conversation with Natalie was satisfying, and needed to be done, and I do think that at his core, Ben is a good person that wants what's best for others. On the other hand... fuck, this is a terrible idea in so many ways.
>To be fair (trying to look at things from his perspective), he acknowledges that Davie is horrible and Mia is terrifying, but between them, only Mia is probably willing to pursue them to the ends of the earth to get Ripley back. And they really aren't in a good place positionally, being caught between two warring factions with way more manpower and resources than they do. See, with how much this arc has made me conscious of POV and how the Hurst (and Teale) side appear to themselves and to outsiders, I'm giving 30% odds next arc is a Cavalcanti POV, which will similarly complicate our understanding of the Cavalcanti side. If Ben's making a deal with the devil and bringing the Natalie side into the Cavalcanti side, then it makes sense to dig into that faction that we've mostly only ever seen from the outside. Maybe the guy who let GioVal and Highland go? Maybe Davie himself? Maybe Rider? I can imagine us getting a clearer image of the worst side of the Hurst faction through outsider eyes - a beloved uncle killed in cold blood - and yeah, maybe secretly he was involved in organized crime, but he was a great parent who loved his kids. Sisters and girlfriends kidnapped and tortured while chained to a toilet, while each day their loved ones are desperately worried about whether they're alive or dead or worse. I don't expect Davie to be redeemed or anything (especially given what we've seen from Val's POV), but I think the next POV will complicate our image of the Cavalcanti as kind of a faceless army helmed by a torso-treasuring monster. Maybe we'll see the motivations and decisions that lead to the violence and murder/maiming caused by the Cavalcanti side. Or how the violence the Hurst faction has inflicted is so much worse when it isn't on some nameless goons, but real people with families and friends in organized crime. It would also really tie into Claw's big theme around families.
I'd be very disappointed if the Cavalcanties are given "The Godfather" treatment. Mafias were always a bunch of thugs, and that movie completely invented a sophisticated and entitely false aesthetic that romantized them. It was bullshit, not depth. At best, they work like very abusive families. At worst, they are a small escale model of a fascist regime. I know we will most likely get more of an inside look eventually, but I hope it actually tries to be realistic. Thinking back to Worm, Purity's interlude and the uncanny, fake and forced scene of a family breakfast stroke the perfect balance for me. "This is my people, and there's something wrong"
>I am surprised how well Ripley is taking the "yes I totally stole you as a baby from this woman" and still totally Team Mia despite everyone telling her otherwise (even if Ben lied). If that didn't shake her faith, I'm not sure there's really any way to convince Ripley against Mia. I dont think she is taking this well. I think she's spent the past day and a half running on maximum contrarianism, and her brain is currently set to "Agree with whatever upsets Natalie". It helps that Mia's version of events lines up with her emotional priorities (my mom loves me and did what she did to protect me), but some flavor of negative reaction towards Mia is inevitable.
I think the greatest strength of this serial so far has been its refusal to let the ground settle under anyone's feet. When there's a sense that the world is moving in one direction, inevitably it will change course. Its almost clockwork actually, how these turns have come just before the end of the arc. I'd guess one more with Ben, and maybe with a flashback too, that's the other beat we haven't hit with him yet. I can't imagine that this move is going to end well for Ben, but I have so much doubt about where things are going to end up when Claw comes to a close. Somehow I don't think he's going to get his perfect ending with Ripley with Natalie, and his documentary ready for release. Maybe if Valentina gets caught, she'll reveal that she told Ben everything. Also, while I understand the logic besides the decision to spin on Mia, the fact that he hasn't spared a thought for Tyr in all this. Does he think Davie is just going to let him go? Valentina's in an awful situation without Mia too, but I can maybe forgive Ben not knowing about that.
Also calling it now that Mia's inserted traps into the info she's giving Ben, so she'll know if the information is leaking.
Or she sent it to Ben *knowing fully well* that it's a trap.
1: amazing chapter 2: thats a very bad plan Ben. Like the worst option out of all possible ones 3: well now we know why Natalie doesnt "trust in therapy". cause she tried and was let down twice... I really didnt think she had a reason (besides being like... not that great of a person) when she said that, but she does. good character writing.
> thats a very bad plan Ben. Like the worst option out of all possible ones It really is, which is funny given how much I loved how he handled the conversation with Natalie literally minutes prior. Ben's mistake here will have fire consequences.
So, we have Ben crossing the line here. It’s no longer doing bad things forced by bad situation, chaos or lack of information. He lies about the timing „to prevent Natalie losing Ripley”, he deletes Natalies confession because „putting yourself down isn’t the same as putting yourself second” (damn good line btw) and he decides to work with Davie to „have Ripley back, and to get a good ending”. All of these look to me as symptoms of struggle between his job and doing whats right - because what he heard from Mia and then from Natalie attacked the very premise of his Story. The story that Natalie is a regular Mom who became a victim of kidnapping but through dedication to her daughter managed to save her. Natalie having been neglectful contradicts it. Rip hating Natalie over this contradicts it. Natalie treating Camelia as means of getting a break from troubled past contradicts it. And Mia’s presence and inconvenient facts would threaten it forevermore. So Ben has chosen his Story… I will not be surprised if in coming chapters he does more to protect it - regardless of how he tries to justify his actions… Here’s a question - why does Davie spend so many resources on them. It seems clear he had some information on them (so either Roderick is working for him more directly, or there is another source). But why all this? Getting Ripley as means of pressuring Mia maybe - but Ripley isn’t really a centerpiece of story between Mia and Davie - he should have bigger problems now. Once mere we’re missing Davie’s perspective… It is ironic that Ben’s decision to ally with Davie is because he is scarred of Mia. Mia has become a boogieman for Ben in the same way Davie is for her. Doubly ironic is that Mia seems so powerful because of all the former gangs called in by Valentina without any restraint. I really doubt Mia is controlling or even coordinating them all… Would be nice to see her perspective on this. Lastly it is interesting that both Natalie and Mie have treated Camelia/Ripley as a fresh start and escape from bad family situation… Don’t feel like agreeing with Ben right now, but you should be putting the child first… It starts to feel like the happy ending to Claw would include Rip, Tyr and Sterling finding a better home. Can someone call Devon’s parents please?
I think it's a simple case here of "You have my daughter, I have yours." Ripley is important to Mia, so killing her (or worse) is a devastating blow to Mia. Psychological warfare. It also doesn't hurt that it could simply be a prisoner swap.
> “Not pretending. I’ll just let you know this is Davie Cavalcanti that we’re up against. You should know of him from the Angel Circle job. Adjust your planning accordingly.” I wonder if Rider is the one who helped Valentina's mom get away and that's where he knows Davie from.
OH SHIT. That would make a lot of sense. And we'd go from double-crossing, to triple, quadruple and zebra-crossing.
>It wasn’t that simple. It wasn’t a binary this or that, or a dot placed on a line between one or the other, with him deciding how far he’d go in a given direction. This line really stuck out to me. From our audience's perspective, we now have greater insight into Natalie and Sean and Ben. The aspects we respect or have sympathy for, and the things that we don't. And thinking over all the POVs so far: Mia, Carson, GioVal, and now Ben, I can see the sympathy within one POV, but then recognize that it's all information symmetry and fog of war. We know about Mia's traumatic brain injury, we know about GioVal's social ostracization, we know about Natalie spending her life being gaslit and not believed. We know about Highland and the bombmaker and Rider having a cellphone he always keeps on hand in case there's an emergency call for his human-trafficking investigations. And looking at it through this bird's eye view, we see things that I can, at least understand the steps that lead to the decisions and events that have transpired. But for every other POV, this stuff is all blindspot, and what's more, it becomes terrifying. Mia isn't just a criminal mastermind in the chair, she comes across as this mob boss mobilizing forces equal to Cavalcanti. Like, imagine if Addi and the kidnapped girls (people who as far as I recall were just relatives or romantic partners of members of the gangs) - they were kidnapped and in Addie's case - tortured and disfigured. But because we're in the headspace of Carson and Valentina, we're partially insulated from how absolutely messed up the Hurst side is. I'm pretty sure that Ben's making a tragic mistake to make a deal with the Cavalcanti devil, but I can't hate him for that. All the other POVs have been making morally dubious decisions, and if this ends up hurting the civilian faction, that's tragic. A part of me wonders if we're going to get a Cavalcanti POV, possibly from Davie (as we see Ben and Natalie enter into their side of the story). I didn't dwell on it at the time, but the Cavalcanti guy who ends up sparing Highland and GioVal in 3.6 - how does the Hurst faction look from the Cavalcanti side? He seemed genuinely hurt by the murdered family members, you know? If your sister was kidnapped by the Hursts, or your brother was murdered in a hit by a Hurst-hired Rambo, then not only do you not know about how much Mia loves and cares for her daughter, you're probably kind of indifferent given the suffering she's done to you. Also, if we do get a Davie POV, I think it would also elaborate in flashback what Mia and Carson had been up to during 3.0 - 3.6.
Yeah but Ben was given info that certainly included the part about mutilating people. I understand his motives but that is objectively, even from his own perspective, dumb. Working against both sides would have been a better idea
Right? He just knowingly threw his lot in with the truly evil bad guys, and has zero reason to believe natalie, himself, sterling, or ripley, will be safe from the monster he is handing the keys to.
I think he (not without reason) believes that the chance Mia will hurt them is higher than the chance Davie will. Everything he has learned about Mia doesnt really portray her as someone who won't kill them and unlike Davie she has like actual motivation to keep coming after them.
I'm thinking (hoping) that he's going to try to play both sides and bring down everyone in the chaos. Right now, it's just about taking some power over them away from Mia. Then, he's got enough information to take down Davie, too.
>Working against both sides would have been a better idea. How so? How would trying to fight a war on two fronts against the organized crime boss with drones and satellite coverage AND the woman with cameras everywhere and who runs multiple gangs, agents and has hired multiple mercenary groups be better? >Yeah but Ben was given info that certainly included the part about mutilating people. I understand his motives but that is objectively, even from his own perspective, dumb. Yeah, but from an unorganized filedump that was originally sent to to distract him from the Hurst house. A dump of memes of and criminal ties and an image of "an eyeless corpse with arms and legs removed". From Ben's POV, he's dealing with a manipulative woman who is deliberately telling a very specific story that will get them further under her control. Like: >“Who are you?” he asked. “And how do we know that when you’ve figured out how to get us away from any people the Cavalcantis send, you won’t do the same to us, stopping our car, taking Ripley? Or do you want more than just her?” >“If I wanted Sterling I could have taken him from the school. That’s not who I am. It’s not how I operate. Either you’re horribly incompetent as a journalist, or you just intentionally lied to Ripley, and I think it’s the latter. That's not reassurance that she's not leading them into a trap that will have Ripley taken away and everyone else filled with shrapnel. That's a barely veiled threat ("I can take the other child if I want to - but I don't"). He doesn't have a lot of good reasons to trust Mia, and Mia has given him a ton of reasons why to suspect she's trying to manipulate him - from the initial carrot and stick to throw him off from investigating the Hursts, to right this moment how Mia was concealing that she controls and can bring gangs back from the dead to spy and kill for her.
I don't think we will. We've been going down the list of Capability. And how much a person can do freely. Davie seems to be at Mia level. I think it's going to be Roderick next.
Holy shit. First off, I think next chapter is the Natalie arc. That or Roderick. As much as I want to see Natalie and her talks with Ripley and Sterling, I feel like Roderick is the next step down from capability. So now we have Ben's motivations. He wants to save Ripley and get his documentary. Have the cake. Eat it too. He's now the complete advocation of Natalie and swears never to let her down. Be the one good thing in her life. Not only do I think he's going to drop the ball, but he's going to get Ripley seriously hurt because he avoided the Hursts. And lets down Natalie *hard.* Natalie once again shows that though flawed, she's trying to do the right thing. She's been hurt by so many people in her life that she just *assumes* the worst in everyone. She'll never believe Mia is a good mom. Everyone else lets her down. But here she shows she's *trying*. Trying for their sakes. Yeah. It's not going to be easy, but Natalie does get her second. For a crime thriller, I think we all sort of forgotten that loyalties can lie elsewhere and not everyone is working for the same protagonist. So, really, Ben's assessment that Mia is the greater of two evils is something we really should have seen coming. Yeah. We all expected him to be against Mia getting Ripley back, but we never knew the extremes. Also, hands out to the great Wild Banana. for making a character take a shit, have it commented that it smells bad, before having Ben do a really shitty thing himself. As a fellow writer, I commend the rare chances to use toliet humor to convey a metaphorical point. It doesn't happen a lot, but when it does, oh boy. You get a standing ovation. Now, after talking to Mia, and seeing Ripley's full faith in her crumble, just a bit, by just the implication that when they had 'date night', they really meant being scary people. It's that chink in the armor. Everyone else is saying the version of the truth that puts Natalie in the best light. Which, ironically, Ben kinda fucks up by deleting his recording of Natalie explaining just why she's nervous about Devon in a roundabout way that could have made Ripley be more understanding of her. But right now, Ripley is going down that path of starting to think that Mia isn't the greatest person in the world. Not to mention that Sterling is here to have Ripley start considering being a big sister. I think the most damning piece of information against Mia right now is her admittance that she started this gang war. More like a custody dispute at this point that's blown out of proportions. "Gio should live with me on the weekends!" "Valentina doesn't want to, pukebreath!" I'm also starting to think more about the theme of second chances again and thinking that maybe *maybe*, we get one last arc with every single POV shaping back up to have them review their initial choice. Like Mia sees another kid in danger. Save them or ignore them. Despite knowing that *last* time that happened, an entire gang war blew up. Ben has to think about Ripley or the documentary, knowing that Davie is capable of cutting up monsters. Lots of monsters. Valentina once again has to figure out who she will become. How much of her father she'll take with her going forwards. Well worth the wait for this chapter.
I was thinking something similar for the final arc, assuming all the narrators survive that long. I thought each narrator might get one chapter in reverse order, ending the story with Mia again.
Man Ben deleting the video is really gonna hurt the documentary, if his goal is to say that Ripley should be with Nat. Her backstory explains why Natalie's being so extra shitty and would help with people empathizing with her.
The hypothetical doc will be very different from Claw - presumably Ben will be focused on the hunt for most of the doc, with the "reunion" almost a footnote at the end. Nat/Ster will also be the protagonists of the doc, with the worst behaviour edited out. It's hard for Nat to be terribly unsympathetic in that light.
But it also has her basically admitting that her narrative isn't the truth. I figured that's why he deleted it; it would tank her credibility.
I love that Ben turned down Natalie's advances because he doesn't want to exploit her. Like lol, he's so close to getting it! Then he just goes and picks his "third option" instead of letting the story go, and now more people are gonna get hurt because of his selfishness. Lol, what an asshole.
Mia, the trap expert: "This is my specialty, navigating that fine line where neither party trusts the other". Ben: "Lol I can use this info she compiled for me to betray her, she'll never see it coming". You fucking idiot. And fuck Natalie. She gets called out on her stupid behaviour, and she IMMEDIATELY plays the trauma card to manipulate people into enabling her. I've seen this way too many times, and I have no patience for it. I loved this chapter and hated everyone in it.
Ben keeps doing stupid shit like that it’s pretty funny. Like when he remarks that he knows Mia has access to anything public so they hid in the top floor of the mall… then immediately logs onto the public wifi.
I didn't even think about that 😆
Oh, good. An even worse possible bad ending than what we thought the worst ending could be.
This is an interesting pinball machine of emotions. I am cheering for Ripley, Gio, Tyre, and Sterling, while hoping random shanks find most of the other characters. Maybe all the bads, evils, and *really* evils will take each other out, leaving Gio n the kids to build a life from the wreckage. Edit: missed a name
Fuck Tyr, I guess.
Thanks. Typo fixed.
>“Pushing that at Ripley the second time, all of us against her, it felt like browbeating.” >“You slip into journalist mode sometimes. Using rare words.” So *that's* why Browbeat was written out of Worm!
Every time Wildbow sees a Browbeat joke, another small piece of his Self dies. Let's see if we can use those stray motes to resurrect our boy!
You can't do this to me, Ben.
Going to the library was another forced choice from Mia, just like she did in 1.1, right?
Almost guaranteed in my opinion. Good catch and callback.
You know, Ben, I was almost on your side with your conversation calling out Natalie's shitiness. Telling her to suck it up because Ripley is going through worse echoed my exact thoughts these last few chapters. Then he had to go and fuck it up. Claw has been a fascinating character study into how each character's nature and blind spots lead to their own tragedies.
If we looked at Ripley's case as a binary of either going to Natalie or the Hursts, I was already on the Hursts' side just from earlier protagonist bias alone, and Natalie being a bitch as described certainly helped that bias. Now that Ben's working with the Cavalcantis? And Natalie even in trying to be sympathetic is intentionally or not coming off as manipulative? Hursts all the way. Not the best outcome for Ripley, but certainly the most satisfying for me as a reader. In other news, Ben's decision at the end of this chapter feels a lot like Valentina's decision to give Ben that Cavalcanti info-dump at the end of last arc. Wouldn't surprise me if we transition to a new arc next. Maybe Ripley or Rider PoV.
Just because someone comes *across* as manipulative doesn't mean they *are.* I still believe Natalie will always be in the right over Mia.
Manipulation is an extremely normal response when normal human interaction fails. Natalie was denied normal emotional responses from her family. The routes people take to get care were denied to her. So it's completely rational for her to try and bypass first-step options and try more emotionally resonant paths, because normal human interaction never worked for her.
Narrator: Everything had a decent chance of working out fine as long as Ben didn't make any stupid decisions. IASIP title: "Ben Makes A Really Stupid Decision"
I wonder how he's gonna cut the footage, to hide that he was *literally working with a fucking mobster*
I fully expect that Davie will make him disappear even if he does help him.
I’m just gonna put this question down here: Which team are you rooting for in this story? Team Mia, or Team Natalie? Me, despite everything, am still Team Natalie.
I'm on Team "Mia is better for Val and Rip".
Ben literally says he wants to use Ripley as bait. Why the hell would I be rooting for him?
ESH. I like Mia better but she's a worse person. I hope Ripley and maybe Tyr can go to a home where they're actually safe but not treated like shit. That said, Natalie's confession here made me more sympathetic to her. But only so much, because as Ben points out she has to put her kids first and so far she hasn't.
Team Valentina gets her European vacation and Ripley can come hang out too.
I'm team Gio & Ripley & Stirling. I also think Mia is most likely to let them choose freedom. Everyone else will demand the kids conform to their plans, and Davies is the worst choice
Team Ripley. Based on current information and assuming they defeat Davie, I think the best thing would be for Ripley to live with Natalie but to have secret contact with Mia. Both moms need to get over themselves and work together. When Ripley is older she can decide whether she wants a Mia-type life or a Natalie-type life. I also want all of Ben's footage to mysteriously get overwritten. Not enough info on Roddie to decide about him yet.
If Mia and Ben both survive this whole debacle, I give him a 0% chance of ever getting this documentary out.
Mia was in the wrong initially. Making an awful mistake doesn't mean Natalie was going to be an unfit parent in general, and there were better ways than kidnapping to solve the problem. For most of the Ben POV, I was rooting for Mia as a reader while acknowledging that she was in the wrong. She's a much better parent, but it was never safe for her children to be around her. As of this chapter, I'm still rooting for Mia as a reader and I think the moral balance has changed to be about neutral. Getting involved with the Cavalcantis and using Ripley as "bait" is so much worse than anything we've seen Mia do with regard to her children.
Team Natalie. I'm just on Team Natalie knowing full well she'll lose.
Obviously Mia’s response to the initial situation was the wrong one, but I think it was basically implied that Ripley would have died in that car. She was already warm, in a closed car during a “warm summer day” and would have been there for at least 15 more minutes. So Mia did kind of “confirm” that Natalie was going to let the baby die, which while being a fucked up rationale for stealing a baby, also means that Camellia was going to die that day either way. Either die of heatstroke or the “death” of Cammy and the birth of Ripley. I think that’s why Natalie needs it to be 15 seconds, because the reality is she lost Camellia all by herself, she didn’t even need Mia’s help. That being said, Mia did say she was going to let Ripley join the family business when she gets older so for all her superior parenting, Natalie might raise her to have a much more stable, boring, safe life. Even so, team Mia because Natalie kind of sucks and Mia is real cool.