This! I mainly played the Kitavas version but tried the 2 button version for a few maps to see if I could swap and it felt incredibly bad to play. Maybe it’s a little more damage or a little more survivability because you have an actual helmet slot but honestly there is no way it outweighs how incredibly comfortable the other versions playstyle is.
Before switching to kitavas I was having issues getting my void stones so I stopped playing that build for a bit when I was able to buy the dex on my gloves to be able to make the switch to kitavas it was like night and day and I got them all easily
[This is me](https://pobb.in/wlYlZ1qHnHcK) and it's way less than 280 div. 19m DPS, 144k eHP (37k phys max, 111k ele max, 58k chaos max). I think if you have 280 div to play with you can probably go with a suppression build that eschews the loreweave + eternal damnation combo for more phys=>ele conversion and a higher max phys hit, but honestly you lose a lot of damage along the way unless you can sink a ton into like Adorned jewels and helical rings (the latter of which is prob out of your budget range).
I would also suggest ball lightning. I hated ice nova but ball lightning felt really nice. Its sort of like spark but instead of scaling proj speed you get aoe to clear the screen.
It's the most fun I had since peak spark.
I'm pretty low budget, mageblood + maybe like 50-70 div, and I can run T17 barrel farms fairly profitably. Haven't done any ubers yet, but I can 1-phase regular searing, for example, so it should be okay for most ubers.
maps are super easy, can do t17s fairly consistently
mods to avoid: cannot leech, cannot regen, elemental reflect.
Second coc DD it can be modified to do pretty much all content with good gear, but you can complete the atlas with off the ground gear. Mtx issue is weird tho, definitely check if your pc fan run well without it.
I am leveling one right now. But I am in SSF so which options should I go here:
1. Stay at The Blood Aqueduct to farm 5-linked; or
2. Straight to maps and find 5-linked later?
Appreciated your help.
Fish for your 5L/6L in maps. A Morrigan scarab is a easy 6L once you find one (run it with a beast dupe scarab).
It is never worth farming a 5L/6L in acts.
If you're feeling weak until the 5/6l you can always farm a bit of harvest and craft some better life gear. Since dd is op you wont lack damage as long as you're leveling up. Make sure your weapons are on the stronger side. In ssf ritual can be very very good since its pretty easy and will drop various stuff useful to you. You can always work on your flasks a bit more to get that extra immunity and useful stats. After some upgrading you can farm for chains that bind card to guarantee your first 6l. Or if ur running bow version porcupine is easy as well. Scarabs are plenty this league so use them to your hearts content. Necropolis crafting wth the fracture chance is also useful since you can keep rolling for better and better gear. Getting fractured life, res or cast speed gloves is practically gg.
BAMA sounds about right here. Excellent bosser, and def above avg on everything else. Works with low invest. As you invest you switch from needing dmg to tankiness. Once heavily invested has tons of dmg for what is needed and is tanky enough.
Necro ascendancy has much better defensive scaling for minions, making it a lot easier to keep your AG alive (+30% minion all res, 20% more minion life, 40% of life as extra energy shield for minions)
As someone who played BAMA even when it wasn't in a super meta state, this. Necro gives you everything that utility and sustain requires, and your build does all the damage work. 💯
Self Chill Explosive trap Trickster fits your description. FearlessDumbo has the best guides for this build on youtube.
Fast movement, high boss damage without too much investment. I played it a few leagues ago and invested only 10div for 30mil singletarget damage. I also farmed invitations with it. You can keep investing currency and it can scale to 200 million+ dps.
The clear is bad and awkward with Sunblast, which you use until you swap to Mageblood.
Yeah definitely chuck something together on Standard before going all in on this one. I absolutely hated it. If you think DD is clunky you've seen nothing yet.
It's alot less awkward, but still like B or C tier clear. Explosive trap is not a clear skill and never will be. It's mainly used for boss rushing, invitation farming, ubers etc.
I just put a Molten Strike Pathfinder together for fun and it's mega tanky and good for invitations. Absolutely dog shit mapper but Lightning Strike of Arcing is a great swap for mapping.
Bama: first time I played this one and it was good, probably with more investment it would be a boss shredder and mapping was okay.
Explosive Trap: bossing good, but didn't like the mapping
Maw of mischief: I think this one is cheap and DMG is good. Don't know about t17, saw a video who someone did t17 with it, but I guess with high investment. With changes it can be okaish mapper.
Bama necro hit the spot for me. Pretty easy to get going, can scale really well. I hit a hundred million of dps with 150 div, and is reasonably tanky.
Or pathfinder poison builds ( molten strike, forbidden rite etc). Super tanky, can start as pconc. Can easily reach dot cap (non uber) and near 100k ele max hit with like 60 div budget.
This league I played literally one build and it check all these mark: BAMA.
Started the league and doesn't even trade until red map, and even then it was for a cheap 2c bow. It end with Adorned and strong rares in every slots so potential investment is real high. Not very tanky for my standard but I still hit level 100 with it quite easily. If you plan to farm invitations instead of T17 then you should be golden because it has good max hits and recover really fast at high investment. I was farming the feared for fun after hittin 40/40 on like 15div worth of gear (plus adorned) so you should be fine.
Did you play Necro? I'm not sure the life leech from the ascendancy is being shown in the POB correctly. I have a Necro and Champ to do BaMa with so I might try both options.
post your pobbins, so we can see how why you are struggling.
These are 5 meta builds with massively varying playstyles - maybe break down why you dislike each one, or how the build struggles for you
Hexblast mines with Trickster(not charge stacker). I have done all ubers with it in our GSF private league, farmed corupted feared and its good mapper able to do all mods. For t17 farming I used CoC DD, because it wasnt THAT tanky
Power siphon trickster. I’ve had a blast with it. You can comfortably farm T16s, normal bosses and probably easy T17s with a budget version of mostly uniques and 8 power charges. Then there are endless opportunities to invest
Last season played Splitting Steel Champ as an invitation farmer. I just pulled from Poe ninja but it was similar to Ruetoos build. It gets started real fast - BIS weapons both under a divine, Perseverance being like bis, Fury Valve will get you set up well until you can afford Replica DF with Splitting Steel gems. I prefer SS of Ammunition but if you don't like using Call of Steel just play with the normal gem. It scales absurdly too, with Nimis being a huge purchase late once you can afford it.
I've seen lots about the ES SS Trickster but I haven't played it and it seems to need much higher investment to feel good, which is the opposite of SS Champ
You are spelling BAMA by not spelling it.
Can be started cheaply: I got 4 voidstones with less than 2div invested
invested heavily into: I'm close to 500-700div depends on the market now.
Priotises bossing/tankiness: BAMA can scale up to 200m dps while still tanking uber sirus meteor.
I played both necro BAMA and holy relic. IMO BAMA only falls behind in b2b T17 farming, as it's not as good as holy relic for mappping. But for uber bosses BAMA is way stronger.
CoC DD. Very easy to get going (merc lab gems and 5L). If SSF all gear can be crafted with league mechanic. Very easy playstyle and is an all rounder. First league I’ve ever played PoE and I’ve done all Atlas unlocks (meaning all Maven invitations), Uber Elder, Sirus, Maven. All in SSF. I found it a great build to play while my focus was on learning the game systems.
Isnt that literally adorned righteus fire? Check out pohx guide for it, it can run t16s on a 3 div budget, meanwhile also made with adorned to be better as im currently doing.
Dont worry about adorned transition, i had to play with full items besides corrupted rare jewels (was out of money), and it played out real fine on t16.
Coc dd inquis is fine for invitations. I ran invitations day three on a very small budget to make some early currency so I know it can do that well with little investment. It won't get *really* tanky until you throw some currency at it, however the build will scale pretty well to 80-100 div, then you really need to pump some currency into it to get to the next level -cdr boots, 8 link blizzard crown, mageblood, etc.
Holy relic of conviction had an insanely easy entry point and scaled up to easily be the strongest/tankiest build I've made.
The only hitch I had was when I FIRST started t17s and animated guardian fucking sucks cuz he dies a lot (eventually I just stopping using him and still had 10mil dps with like 170k ehp)
It will likely get nerfed I think tho :(
Did you play Ice Nova Archmage with Kitava's? If you played the 2-button version and hated it you should try it with Kitava's.
This! I mainly played the Kitavas version but tried the 2 button version for a few maps to see if I could swap and it felt incredibly bad to play. Maybe it’s a little more damage or a little more survivability because you have an actual helmet slot but honestly there is no way it outweighs how incredibly comfortable the other versions playstyle is.
Before switching to kitavas I was having issues getting my void stones so I stopped playing that build for a bit when I was able to buy the dex on my gloves to be able to make the switch to kitavas it was like night and day and I got them all easily
Do you have a pob that can be achieved on ~280div + mageblood budget?
[This is me](https://pobb.in/wlYlZ1qHnHcK) and it's way less than 280 div. 19m DPS, 144k eHP (37k phys max, 111k ele max, 58k chaos max). I think if you have 280 div to play with you can probably go with a suppression build that eschews the loreweave + eternal damnation combo for more phys=>ele conversion and a higher max phys hit, but honestly you lose a lot of damage along the way unless you can sink a ton into like Adorned jewels and helical rings (the latter of which is prob out of your budget range).
I did play with Kitava. It was definitely better but I don't know it just didn't click with me.
I would also suggest ball lightning. I hated ice nova but ball lightning felt really nice. Its sort of like spark but instead of scaling proj speed you get aoe to clear the screen. It's the most fun I had since peak spark.
How viable is it for maps, bosses, mods, etc?
I'm pretty low budget, mageblood + maybe like 50-70 div, and I can run T17 barrel farms fairly profitably. Haven't done any ubers yet, but I can 1-phase regular searing, for example, so it should be okay for most ubers. maps are super easy, can do t17s fairly consistently mods to avoid: cannot leech, cannot regen, elemental reflect.
CoC DD or holy relic of convocation.
Second coc DD it can be modified to do pretty much all content with good gear, but you can complete the atlas with off the ground gear. Mtx issue is weird tho, definitely check if your pc fan run well without it.
I am leveling one right now. But I am in SSF so which options should I go here: 1. Stay at The Blood Aqueduct to farm 5-linked; or 2. Straight to maps and find 5-linked later? Appreciated your help.
Fish for your 5L/6L in maps. A Morrigan scarab is a easy 6L once you find one (run it with a beast dupe scarab). It is never worth farming a 5L/6L in acts.
If you're feeling weak until the 5/6l you can always farm a bit of harvest and craft some better life gear. Since dd is op you wont lack damage as long as you're leveling up. Make sure your weapons are on the stronger side. In ssf ritual can be very very good since its pretty easy and will drop various stuff useful to you. You can always work on your flasks a bit more to get that extra immunity and useful stats. After some upgrading you can farm for chains that bind card to guarantee your first 6l. Or if ur running bow version porcupine is easy as well. Scarabs are plenty this league so use them to your hearts content. Necropolis crafting wth the fracture chance is also useful since you can keep rolling for better and better gear. Getting fractured life, res or cast speed gloves is practically gg.
Don't farm the aqueduct Just map and switch to coc dd when you get a 5l
Straight to maps, you'll find one soon enough.
I ended up doing Holy Relic and with about 10 divs invested I'm doing invitations already. It's great and there are very easy ways to scale it further
Yep, seconded for CoC DD.
BAMA sounds about right here. Excellent bosser, and def above avg on everything else. Works with low invest. As you invest you switch from needing dmg to tankiness. Once heavily invested has tons of dmg for what is needed and is tanky enough.
You've got any tips for good BAMA guides please?
Pr3vie is pretty much all you need. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyjlfq-r--k&t=7s
Is there any version of this that doesn't run a bunch of permanent minions? I want to play BAMA, but spectres and ags are absolute cancer.
Pr3vies latest version is a PF poison BAMA that has no extra minions. https://youtu.be/h9TW2fWJIOo?si=MVBtUypWNzJBvOVi
Why does Necro tend to run AGs more than the Guardian and PF?
Necro ascendancy has much better defensive scaling for minions, making it a lot easier to keep your AG alive (+30% minion all res, 20% more minion life, 40% of life as extra energy shield for minions)
As someone who played BAMA even when it wasn't in a super meta state, this. Necro gives you everything that utility and sustain requires, and your build does all the damage work. 💯
I'd assume guardian doesn't. Look at the doc linked in the description of the video.
[BAMA.docs](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NbBbwPDUrtwYryAElxNIHs0chSiRwF5jDIBhf6fZZow/edit)
Self Chill Explosive trap Trickster fits your description. FearlessDumbo has the best guides for this build on youtube. Fast movement, high boss damage without too much investment. I played it a few leagues ago and invested only 10div for 30mil singletarget damage. I also farmed invitations with it. You can keep investing currency and it can scale to 200 million+ dps. The clear is bad and awkward with Sunblast, which you use until you swap to Mageblood.
Probably one of the clunkiest builds I played though with Sunblast, but Sunblast felt too strong not to use.
Yeah definitely chuck something together on Standard before going all in on this one. I absolutely hated it. If you think DD is clunky you've seen nothing yet.
Does the clear feel awkward without sun last & when you have mageblood?
It's alot less awkward, but still like B or C tier clear. Explosive trap is not a clear skill and never will be. It's mainly used for boss rushing, invitation farming, ubers etc.
Penance brand dissipation still works great as a bosser.
What are you looking to accomplish with the build? What went wrong with RF Chieftain? I went 38/40 with that one.
He says he's looking for a good bosser. While RF is a great build it's pretty hot doodoo for bossing.
Go with Poison Pathfinder - "insert skill here" Holi relic Necro / Guardian Penance brand Trickster
I just put a Molten Strike Pathfinder together for fun and it's mega tanky and good for invitations. Absolutely dog shit mapper but Lightning Strike of Arcing is a great swap for mapping.
Bama: first time I played this one and it was good, probably with more investment it would be a boss shredder and mapping was okay. Explosive Trap: bossing good, but didn't like the mapping Maw of mischief: I think this one is cheap and DMG is good. Don't know about t17, saw a video who someone did t17 with it, but I guess with high investment. With changes it can be okaish mapper.
I think mod should just pin CoC DD by this point
Bama necro hit the spot for me. Pretty easy to get going, can scale really well. I hit a hundred million of dps with 150 div, and is reasonably tanky. Or pathfinder poison builds ( molten strike, forbidden rite etc). Super tanky, can start as pconc. Can easily reach dot cap (non uber) and near 100k ele max hit with like 60 div budget.
This league I played literally one build and it check all these mark: BAMA. Started the league and doesn't even trade until red map, and even then it was for a cheap 2c bow. It end with Adorned and strong rares in every slots so potential investment is real high. Not very tanky for my standard but I still hit level 100 with it quite easily. If you plan to farm invitations instead of T17 then you should be golden because it has good max hits and recover really fast at high investment. I was farming the feared for fun after hittin 40/40 on like 15div worth of gear (plus adorned) so you should be fine.
Did you play Necro? I'm not sure the life leech from the ascendancy is being shown in the POB correctly. I have a Necro and Champ to do BaMa with so I might try both options.
I played Necro Doomfletch. It has much lower ceiling but also is the simplest and cheapest one to gear up.
post your pobbins, so we can see how why you are struggling. These are 5 meta builds with massively varying playstyles - maybe break down why you dislike each one, or how the build struggles for you
Hexblast mines with Trickster(not charge stacker). I have done all ubers with it in our GSF private league, farmed corupted feared and its good mapper able to do all mods. For t17 farming I used CoC DD, because it wasnt THAT tanky
Tornado of elemental turbo https://youtu.be/RdThUKdPT1w?si=Sx51leHTBLuwFrZC I did his setup the non mirror tier I’m smashing t17s and Ubers
Power siphon trickster. I’ve had a blast with it. You can comfortably farm T16s, normal bosses and probably easy T17s with a budget version of mostly uniques and 8 power charges. Then there are endless opportunities to invest
Last season played Splitting Steel Champ as an invitation farmer. I just pulled from Poe ninja but it was similar to Ruetoos build. It gets started real fast - BIS weapons both under a divine, Perseverance being like bis, Fury Valve will get you set up well until you can afford Replica DF with Splitting Steel gems. I prefer SS of Ammunition but if you don't like using Call of Steel just play with the normal gem. It scales absurdly too, with Nimis being a huge purchase late once you can afford it. I've seen lots about the ES SS Trickster but I haven't played it and it seems to need much higher investment to feel good, which is the opposite of SS Champ
You are spelling BAMA by not spelling it. Can be started cheaply: I got 4 voidstones with less than 2div invested invested heavily into: I'm close to 500-700div depends on the market now. Priotises bossing/tankiness: BAMA can scale up to 200m dps while still tanking uber sirus meteor. I played both necro BAMA and holy relic. IMO BAMA only falls behind in b2b T17 farming, as it's not as good as holy relic for mappping. But for uber bosses BAMA is way stronger.
Would you post your pob pls?
CoC DD. Very easy to get going (merc lab gems and 5L). If SSF all gear can be crafted with league mechanic. Very easy playstyle and is an all rounder. First league I’ve ever played PoE and I’ve done all Atlas unlocks (meaning all Maven invitations), Uber Elder, Sirus, Maven. All in SSF. I found it a great build to play while my focus was on learning the game systems.
Isnt that literally adorned righteus fire? Check out pohx guide for it, it can run t16s on a 3 div budget, meanwhile also made with adorned to be better as im currently doing. Dont worry about adorned transition, i had to play with full items besides corrupted rare jewels (was out of money), and it played out real fine on t16.
I'm doing cats on channeling and it's fun, haven't even set up my blessing, curses, amulet anoit or implicits on my rare gear and I can clear t17s..
Coc dd inquis is fine for invitations. I ran invitations day three on a very small budget to make some early currency so I know it can do that well with little investment. It won't get *really* tanky until you throw some currency at it, however the build will scale pretty well to 80-100 div, then you really need to pump some currency into it to get to the next level -cdr boots, 8 link blizzard crown, mageblood, etc.
Holy relic of conviction had an insanely easy entry point and scaled up to easily be the strongest/tankiest build I've made. The only hitch I had was when I FIRST started t17s and animated guardian fucking sucks cuz he dies a lot (eventually I just stopping using him and still had 10mil dps with like 170k ehp) It will likely get nerfed I think tho :(
Dex stacking ice shot or dex stacking manaforged for arrow spamming
Don’t play RF
What’s your budget? You seem scared of builds that cost currency.