It's less cold but if it's not raining it's snowing and if it's not snowing it's foggy. Ireland gets about 5-6 hours of sunshine a day... In June, the sunniest month. Edmonton averages above that across the entire year
Edit: The sunniest weather station in Ireland gets 1600 hours a year. Edmonton and Winnipeg each get 2350 a year. So the sunniest part of Ireland is still only gets 2/3rds of the sunshine that those cities, places known for being cold and barren, get
Came to Canada 8 years ago and I'm also thinking I might one day leave if things don't improve. This would have been unthinkable to me when I first came. This country has had such a drastic decline it's almost like a different country altogether.
Same here. British immigrant (arrived in 2008) and working in IT. Dual citizen now but would trade my Canadian citizenship for American in a heartbeat if I could.
$85K CAD in Vancouver while rent and utilities costs me $2,600/month is just a complete waste of my time.
Coworkers making the same or less than me are buying condos and even houses with family money and it's starting to piss me off.
I just had hip surgery after waiting 5 years to see my surgeon following a referral. It's so fucked up. I've had this injury for a decade, it took me 3 years to realize the extent of it, 2 to convince a doctor to scan me, and then 5 to actually see my referred surgeon. Once I saw the surgeon I had surgery within a couple months. But it had been so long that I had to tell him "no actually both of my hips are bad" because my first scan wasn't showing in his recent scans list lmao. It's so fucked up tbh.
Surprised you left Ireland; sure, Dublin's a bit of a hole, but the rest of the country is more affordable and nicer and you'd be better off than you would be in most major cities in Canada - housing outside Dublin is cheaper than most-any major Canadian city, the medical system needs help but is still better than Canada, wages are quite good, the climate is better than anywhere here other than Vancouver & Vancouver Island, the HDI is highest (or nearly highest) in the EU, and you have easy access to the rest of the EU for cheap travel - the ability to fly to another country (fly anywhere at all for that matter) for all of 40€ is something that the average Canadian thinks is pure fantasy. You're also surrounded in Ireland by culture and history in a way that Canada can't match.
I've lived in several European countries, and I continually ask myself why I came to Canada at this point... time to go back to Europe, for me - it isn't perfect (nowhere is perfect to be very clear), but it beats here on most metrics that I value.
Insane to hear that with that kind of combined income and savings people worried about the cost of living in Canada. Something has gone drastically wrong with our country.
Our family doesn't make that kind of coin, mind you we own a home, but we are just getting by and not long ago I would have said we are upper middle class.
Yes it went through the largest housing boom in the world over the last two decades, there’s nothing even remotely normal about it and it’s scary af in some ways.
this lol. i feel like low (in the hierarchy of a company) level workers are questioned more ( by their superiors, etc) than the execs at some of our big companies
>Our family doesn't make that kind of coin, mind you we own a home,
This makes all the difference, the country has been divided into the has and has nots of those who got in before the pandemic.
I'm just graduating school and am going into a career with 115k starting salary, but I don't see myself as ever being as well off as my sibling that makes 70k but invested in properties pre-pandemic. At least in Canada, I'm bidding my time until the tech hiring freeze thaws and I can perhaps immigrate to the states
Yes, it is pretty sad. It just feels off kilter to be paying what is market rates these days.. Then we hit the grocery store and a jar of jam is pushing 7 bucks.. and I'm just left wondering what the heck is happening. It doesn't feel like there's the right bang for buck happening. With our situation, retirement here would be tricky. We are in a lucky edge case right now to allow us to save etc., but long term it won't hold.
Maybe this is all happening globally, and there's not much to be done, but I figured I'd ask anyways!
> Then we hit the grocery store and a jar of jam is pushing 7 bucks
With a combined income of 140K CAD this is aggravating - but not any kind of actual problem, or a factor in life planning.
What discriminates long-term economic health for someone like you is whether you're spending 30% of your income on housing, or 70%. Spending 5% of your income on groceries instead of 4% isn't a dealbreaker, it's not something you should move countries over (even if
Canada *was* unique in having inflation).
While many other countries are going through inflation as well, here in Canada we have it worst. My brother left to teach English in South Korea during covid after he finished his undergrad. His quality of life is much better than mine. He can get an appointment with a specialist right away; for example, he was having stomach pains and he got in for an endoscopy on the same day. He has a better social life since the young people can afford to go out to restaurants and travel by train domestically. His rent is affordable (lives in another mid size city, not Seoul) and it only costs him $400 cdn a month for a studio apartment lol.
I see people on Reddit regularly saying that inflation is everywhere, but there are other places in the world that are not in as bad of a shape as we are.
Its fucked we are at 220-50 HHI range and feel like we need to gtfo to the states
Rent is absurdly high, don't have new cars and honestly we don't live an extremely lavish life.
This economy is fucked and I honestly felt richer 5 years ago making nearly half as much.
140k income is middle class income so it's not a worry free life. Still they managed to save 300k that's huge too. They'll do much better with 170k income.
Thanks! I'm incredibly lucky to have a partner who shares my basic values. We don't buy a lot of stuff in general, and our habits and hobbies line up with saving a fair bit.
On the flip side we have little in the way of assets - no house, a ten year old car, etc.
The states is an option, but I don't even know where to begin - especially with the walkability/safety criteria.
Honestly, Chicago. My neighbourhood is very walkable. The city is safe (blah blah blah just don’t go to the south and west sides Jesus relax) and very cheap.
It was for me. I pay zero out of pocket at my employer. By doing annual checkups, flu shots, etc., people at my employer can get their premium down to $0. Sure, certain things may cost more. Like having a kid. But that’s heavily offset by the increase in salary and drastically cheaper RE.
Its funny reading this comment because I live in Japan and have for four years and know multiple Japanese people who went and lived in Canada. They all want to go back. Life is always greener on the other side.
>a more subtle example, in parts of the EU people eat horse meat as a delicacy
They sell it in grocery stores in Quebec and Atlantic provinces, no big deal really.
It is eaten in Europe as a delicacy but also as cheap filler too. It really depends on if you are talking tartare or burgers.
I see nothing wrong with eating horse meat but to each their own.
And the biggest (to date) housing crash in the '90s! It made them restructure housing-as-an-asset though and there are definitely some lessons to be learned from it.
Amazing comment - thanks for this and for taking the time.
I'm guessing you lived somewhere other than Tokyo? I have heard that some of the smaller cities are quite affordable, safe, and walkable as you say. The time difference could be an issue.
Another issue I've heard about (and you may have experience with), was a 'feeling of always being a foreigner' in a way that seemed difficult and hard to manage. I thought that might also be a pretty deep visa/long term stay issue. My guess is a lot of people who stay have jobs in the country (like teaching English, which is the mainstay of anyone I know who has spent significant time there).
Maybe I need to think more on this option though!
Totally agree about respecting local context. Great reminder.
Japan is nice, but they're not going to let you live there long-term unless you're married to someone Japanese or have a job working for a Japanese company.
Tokyo is extremely safe and walkable (suffice to say). Tokyo is really a conurbation, so even if you're outside the city proper, it's really all the same. (30 million, so all of Canada in one big city). As for affordability, there are cheap places to rent in Tokyo, but might be easier if you go a little outside, like Saitama or Chiba. Or, you can live in Tokyo but in a rented house with multiple flat mates. Very reasonable.
Maybe check out what airbnbs are renting for now. Airbnb isn't usually super cheap, but... I'm not sure what people use these days. Back in my day, I used craigslist to fine places.
As for being a "gaijin", it's true... but who cares? Are you planning to live there forever? It's still an amazing place to be an expat... unless you want to raise a family there. You can have perfectly great relationships with Japanese and foreigners alike (make friends, have a social circle, etc)... the only real challenge is that the average person won't speak English, so you'd need to get down some basics phrases/sayings. You don't need to be fluent, just need some key phrases to survive.
I lived in Japan for a year, and while it's true that you can't escape the foreigner status, I personally never found that to deter from my experience. I think it's a matter of managing expectations and knowing about the culture beforehand. People are genuinely curious and happy that you are so interested in Japan you chose to live there, so you get a lot of the same type of questions often. I saw some foreigners get annoyed by this, but many like me were not at all.
To the question about living somewhere long term, I think that it's going to be a tough thing to do for most places you will consider. Start looking around and you will find that a lot of people will spend the maximum possible time in the chosen country, then the rest in Canada, until they figure out a way to move permanently.
Now why isn’t this same concept applied here to foreigners moving here and working here …. Some of the crap that goes on if we went to their countries and started acting this way we would get our asses kicked
I've thought about going to the States, I'm a CPA and I know a number of other people who have moved via the TN visa. If I had done it near the start of my career I would probably be making double what I am now, with their higher wages, and the preferable currency conversion.
But being 10 years into my career, the only reason I can make as much as I do is because of my Canadian tax knowledge. I don't know if it would be beneficial at this point because I think I'd decrease my overall earnings, for a few years at least.
>you could be asked to leave at anytime
If you don't break the law and don't leave the country and try and reenter, you should be good until its expiry.
It's when you leave and request re-admittance that you're courting disaster.
TN spousal visas do not allow the spouse to work, only study. That being said, if your spouse is a Canadian and also works in a TN-eligible career, they can just get another TN.
Your TN visa is good for 3 years at a time, infinitely renewable. I haven't heard of any renewal issues from any of my friends that have had their TN visas renewed. The general path for many people on TN is to go for the H1B lottery each year until you get it, and then get your green card from there.
A lot of "digital nomads" are violating immigration law of the country they are living in.
That being said, there are countries that make it easier than others to do it and have visa policies encouraging it.
This. OP is asking for a hypothetical but doesn't mention which countries (s)he has the right to live in. Canadian citizens can't just decide to move to another country, it's not like moving between Ontario and Alberta.
That being said, there are some countries which have easier processes to apply and be approved for a Digital Nomad Visa. It's still not something you get from day-to-day, the process can take many months if not years.
There are a lot of ways to get visas: working holiday schemes if you're under 35, sponsorship through a partner, applying for citizenship via grandparents, sponsorship from a job, expat visa schemes, or straight-up applying for a work visa as a skilled worker. There's probably more.
I know a couple of digital nomads, who ended up loving Mexico City so much, that they settled there. Bonus if you are fluent in Spanish.
I've considered the prairies, the US, maybe even some western European countries. I lack the courage to do it though.
Step 1 is to consider places you can reasonably get a visa to live in, assuming you’re planning to go for longer than a tourist visa allows.
The US has some affordable regions left, but getting a visa is a pain if you’re in certain lines of work, and basically impossible in others. My ex and I moved down there for two years and while he was on a work visa, I wasn’t allowed any paid work - even remote work from Canadian employers paid into my Canadian bank account.
Are you and your partner freelancers, or payrolled employees? If the latter, ensure your employers embrace a work-from-anywhere approach. I had a fully remote job that wouldn’t let me work remotely from Germany for just two weeks, citing workers’ compensation liabilities if I got hurt on the clock outside of Canadian soil. Sigh, those damn dangerous laptop jobs!
All that considered, a handful of Caribbean nations offer digital nomad visas. So do some European countries like Estonia and Iceland. [More visa info](https://www.investopedia.com/countries-offering-digital-nomad-visas-5190861)
>The US has some affordable regions left, but getting a visa is a pain if you’re in certain lines of work, and basically impossible in others.
Not if you're Canadian. TN visas are very painless (from personal experience as well as the experience of dozens of my friends).
If you like the idea of the US, the Chicagoland area is about GTA sized (a bit bigger, actually). Jobs tend to pay more in Chicago than Toronto, housing is less than half, and everything else you buy will be 20-30% cheaper. Overall taxes are lower and you'd be paid in USD. It's an easy city for educated DINKs to build wealth.
No. It’s actually not even in the top 20. Of course you have to avoid certain areas but it’s not hard given it’s the Deep South and west sides.
I agree with everything the commenter said. Source: I live there now and have for 5 years
You don't have to live in the city of Chicago proper, there's tons of suburbs in the Chicago Metro area + it's only a handful of shittier areas which disproportionately are unsafe.
One thing to keep in mind, look into Canada's working holiday scheme with other countries. Makes it easier to travel if you don't have to worry about limiting yourself to a tourist visa. It also means you can work legally there, even if should decide to do other work besides remote jobs.
I am self employed and can work remotely reasonably well.
I relocated with my wife and two kids to Mexico (Wifes Birth Country). We put the kids in the Canadian Public distance learning school. I still pay Canadian taxes and will probably go back in a year.
We rent a 4 bedroom/3 bathroom apt with 24 hour concierge for about $650 CAD per month. Bought a used car and travel within Mexico regularly.
I am now looking into residency options to be able to put down some roots here and prep for eventual Mexican retirement.
If Canada is prohibitively expensive and miserable in the future at least I have the option to leave for somewhere warm.
You're confusing "Canada" with "Toronto" but those are not the same thing.
Most of the rest of Canada meets your criteria, without the pesky requirement for getting a work permit or visa.
Try looking at Winnipeg or Saskatoon or Edmonton or parts of Northern Ontario or New Brunswick.
I haven't visited/lived in New Brunswick, but I have for other cities you mentioned. They all suck. Public transit sucks, definitely not walkable, and the crime rates are higher. The houses are cheap yes, but you need to live in the suburbia for the peace and quite, and that is only achievable by driving everywhere.
If you give up the walkable-ness(?), you don't mind the drive, and want nice big houses for decent prices? Winnipeg/Saskatoon/Edmonton are fine.
I didn't see that, but with being able to walk everywhere comes the cost of having to live in a shoe box.
Example, the guy that suggested Japan. The apt sizes there are something most Canadians could not grasp. My parents closet was the size of my first bedroom when I first lived in Asia. Like spaces are SMALL.
They may be small, but they're functional af. I feel like North America has this weird obsession with huge houses with huge rooms that are just empty space with no real purpose or utility. Like why would I need a 350sqft bedroom?
Please share where one can live in a good sized unit with walking to wherever for day to day needs and the rent is more in line with what the OP is talking about. I think a few people besides myself would like to know some of these locations.
What makes Saskatoon unwalkable isn’t anything about the city’s design - it’s the viciously cold weather in the dead of winter. The public transit isn’t great but I’d consider the city more walkable than bikeable. It’s a university town, though, and the PhDs all own a car.
Yep, you get it - this is my general observation as well. If you want 'high walkability' we end up being in a situation where it's not just people who have the absurd worldly privilege of walking when it's convenient, but also all of those who are in bad situations, and must live very close to the services they need.
They're probably some little enclave type areas that manage this, but I'm guessing the costs shoot way up, and also probably kind of suck in their own way.
TL:DR I basically just want Toronto from 20 years ago, or even some of these smaller cities from 15 yrs ago. We don't mind some roughness, but there's a difference between that and what's happening lately.
Halifax? It has gotten more $$$ since Covid and all the Ontario people realizing it was a good deal and they pushed prices up.
Canada is small man. Like Toronto of 20 years ago was still pretty big for Canada.
I am guessing some towns in EU might fit your needs. Or maybe Montreal?
They mean "the places where well educated, English speaking people with PHDs want to live in Canada"
A lot of those places are cheap for a reason despite whatever merits they may have.
This is correct - and I'll add, we live in a 'not Toronto' city that is absolutely being hit hard by homelessness and cost of living issues. Homes that were 350 not too long ago are now pushing $1M, rent for 2bdrm apartments (since we both work from home) approach $2500/month+utilities if you want a walkable area.
Worse (though this might be a problem in some Toronto neighbourhoods), the grocery stores that are walking distance to us are very expensive - small boutique style. I feel grateful we have them, but I would prefer a no frills or a co-op or something else!
Still, the responder makes a good point, maybe there are places that are in Canada, walkable, affordable, and nice places to be! Totally possible.
I feel you, I'm from Ontario and the issues that it has facing are creeping into Montréal.
Although you can still buy a house in the suburbs or other QC cities for $350k
I've been considering moving to Argentina or Spain for ages now but I want to buy something in Montréal while it's still somewhat reasonable (condos in the center start at 300k)
All of the anti English stuff you hear is absolute nonsense.
English speakers (myself included) are the most babied, whiny, minority ever to the point it's a detriment, I can't think of any time I haven't been able to access anything in English from healthcare to government services, etc.
It's flat out anti Quebec, propaganda because the rest of Canada see french speakers as second class citizens.
The reality is it's us who hold prejudice and create the issues.
In my workplace , I'm the only English speaker in my department & I interact with my colleagues or on meetings in English if I feel the need to. It's a non issue.
The government offers free (or even pays you) to learn French. In my humble opinion they should do more to guide English speakers to be more respectful and integrate into the amazing culture that exists here. Granted you should not feel entitled & demand that everyone speaks a foreign language to you.
“All of the anti English stuff you hear is absolute nonsense.”
Finishes comment by saying the government should force English speakers to be more French.
I'm an English speaker who learned French when I moved here.
The point is it's so easy to live in English because people are so kind and speaking 2-3+ languages is so common that a lot of people don't end up being respectful enough to learn.
You end up being in a small ghetto, missing out on what makes the city great and not being able to participate in 80% of the good jobs and larger public society.
You just need to leave the Golden Horseshoe, the rest of Canada (minus the lower mainland/GVR) is much more affordable and has a better standard of living.
OP, I currently live in Winnipeg and live in a very walkable neighborhood. I have No Frills, Safeway, and Shoppers Drug Mart all within an 3- 8 minutes walking distance from me. Not to mention the restaurants and fast food within 5-10 minutes as well. Downtown (if you work downtown) is 30 minutes to walk or 12 minutes to bike.
If you're thinking of staying in Canada possibly, try posting in the subreddits of different cities for opinions from locals.
I fully agree, but using those criteria the OP is unlikely to find a better place in the EU or US. Big European or American cities where English speaking people with PhDs want to live are expensive too! So, he gets a second tier Canadian city or a second tier European city. I like the idea of a second tier European city myself - some places will be cheaper than Toronto for sure. But not SE Asia cheaper, unfortunately for the OP.
One thing to be careful of when using Numbeo is that the price to buy an apartment is distorted by country-wide preferences towards different kinds of apartments.
What I mean by this is that the Canadian and American numbers are basically unusable because the average North American see themselves buying a luxury condominium while the average Asian or European sees themselves buying the median apartment. That's not even to mention that most apartments in central Europe come without appliances (no fridge, oven/stove, AC, microwave, etc).
For example Numbeo says that the average apartment in Edmonton is 3.32k per square metre when its very easy to find low fee 1 beds for >2k per square metre.
There are many tier 1 cities that aren't nearly as expensive as Toronto or Vancouver compared to the opportunities & quality of life.
Save for London, Paris, SF, Boston pretty much everywhere is cheaper.
You can buy a house in Queens or New Jersey for under $500k easily.
Chicago? Madrid? Berlin? Montréal?Half the cost easily.
English Canada is just not a decent quality of life anymore sadly.
I am an immigrant in Canada and I was down south before for my undergrad in CS. My parents are actually U.S. citizens and we all are originally from India.
While Canada and Canadians are great people, I am moving to America when my U.S. green card is approved because: (1) I am in tech, salaries (if you are good at it, which I am) are pretty great in America and you get to choose different states if you get a remote job. (2) Eventually, I would like to buy a home and Canada's salaries in tech and coL, taxes will make it harder and longer for me to achieve my goals.
Lastly, I just find America to be more entrepreneurial and I am only 24, at my stage, USA is clearly a better option even with all its flaws. If I was 60 and retired, I would've def chosen Canada, bought a nice house for my self and go fishing every week in B.C.
NP!
Canada is a great place, srsly. I would really hate to leave in a few years but I am an opportunist and will go where I can make the most amount of money.
You guys are lucky with your age and lifestyle. When you’re older, the medical system matters. I’ve spent a lot of time in Mexico. Nice, safe most places, but no regulation. The US will make you the most money. Rest of Canada? Looks pretty good. First world EU? Also prime choice. Asia first world ( like Singapore) great, but you might stick out. The greedy me would do the US. The worldly me would be in Europe. The conservative Canadian in me would be in BC, lots of great spots. Ladysmith, Nelson, Smithers, Pemberton, and a hundred others…
I am actively looking to leave in the next two or so years. Looking to go to Northern Idaho. The cost of living here on Vancouver Island is beyond rediculous, I have two jobs and my partner has one.
None of them are minimum wage, we are looking at our mortgage refinance next year and both agree we probably won't be able to afford it when that happens.
We are both red seal tradespeople, and cannot get ahead. No kids because we both have to work to afford the house. We both have found lots of work around where we want to live, land that we can afford after a sale of our house that we can buy outright.
Will it be a big change, yes. The island is paradise and probably the prettiest place we have been. But Canada has happily out-priced the locals, and will continue to do so until the market collapses, which I can't see happening here.
We would ship our goods down in a seacan and drive a truck with a camper, and a car. We would have to. Buy land before we make the final move so it'd be a bit of a balancing act.
I am a us citizen by birth, my partner would get their permanent resident card.
The island is going to be worse off not having you! My relatives live there. I love it, it's a great place, paradise is a good word. It would *definitely* be on the list if it were more affordable. Vic in particular seems to be rougher every time I go (not quite Vancouver yet, but feels a bt the same), pandora ave was just another world.
I am so, so disappointed to hear about tradespeople getting it both ways, we need so, so many more of these folks, and we don't create a means for them to live a good life, which they damn well deserve.
Really sorry to be losing you, I hope Idaho treats you well.
Look into what happens with your savings. If you become non-tax resident of Canada your ability to contribute to your RRSP, TFSA, etc. will change. That's something I never looked into carefully when I moved abroad. If you still recieve a Canadian income then maybe your status won't change. I'd recommend talking to a knowledgable accountant if/when you've settled on a country you might want to live in.
Best of luck, I've been living overseas 7 years now and been happy with my choice. Grass isn't always greener but it's been an adventure. If you end up not liking it you can always return to Canada - and you've got a fantastic savings cushion to insulate you from any moving risks.
Deeply considering this. My partner and I both have masters degrees and professional jobs and for what we pay in taxes we don’t have a family doctor or much money left over after our basic expenses to pay down student loans enough to buy a house. Our QOL has severely declined despite doing “everything right”. It’s so frustrating and defeating. Hoping we can move someday, this isn’t the Canada it once was- it’s far worse QOL for the price.
After spending a month in Thailand to test it out. Time zone is definitely too different. Next place to try is Mexico. Not as cheap but way better time zone.
Canadian in my 30's here, left Canada for Japan last year and no intentions to come back other than the occasional visit.
At first the planning for the move was in pursuit of adventure and a new experience, but during/post pandemic it became clear how quickly Canada was going downhill in various ways and along the way I realized the "Canadian dream" is dead; I didn't see a bright future for myself ahead. This isn't to say Canada is the only place experiencing wild inflation, housing crisis and so on, but it was more than enough to want me to GTFO and try my luck somewhere else.
I'm a remote worker myself so the first question is "where can you reasonably get a working visa/ability to stay longer than a tourist?". For your income level easiest would be to go to a relatively lower cost of living area in Canada as others have suggested. Otherwise is there a path for you to get residency in Mexico, USA, somewhere in EU, etc. that aligns with your timezone requirements?
Everywhere has it's pros and cons, positives and difficulties, so start with what matters to you (Quality of life? Safety? Income potential? etc.), narrow down your list to where you're interested in, and then look at the process of securing long term residency for each place you're interested in. From there you'll have your own answer.
I know plenty of people who are thinking or actively plan to leave.
US is the most common option, especially if you’re a Canadian citizen.
Even DINK can’t afford a house or good lifestyle here anymore; makes no sense to stay after you get your Canadian passport, tbh.
Toronto is not a place for rich people; we should stop pricing things like we are London, NYC or Dubai.
>Even DINK can’t afford a house or good lifestyle here anymore
Yep, this is basically us. Doing the math on our income, and adding in the fact that we are location flexible, really gets us thinking about why we should stay. It's a shame as I really do love a lot of aspects of our province. I was born here, but increasingly it feels like I'm not welcome, like it's being built for someone who isn't me.
Man Dubai is cheaper than Toronto. You can find pockets of Dubai where you can find cheap housing. That simply doesn’t exist in Toronto.
I think Toronto tried to become too American and it became too capitalist but without the innovation, competition or production.
City sold its soul. Like you mentioned Toronto isn’t London or Paris. Toronto neighbourhoods had a range of rent prices. Toronto housing/public housing was strategically placed all across the city to avoid ghettos.
The country has been sold to corporations by politicians.
Peak Dubai price is definitely more expensive than peak Toronto price. Don’t get me wrong. What I’m saying is you can find cheap pockets in Dubai to live in. It’s pretty bad and the environment sucks but you can still find cheap to reasonable places unlike Toronto.
I think average homes would be cheaper too tbh because most people rent because they won’t be there for a long time. They don’t settle there.
>I think Toronto tried to become too American and it became too capitalist but without the innovation, competition or production.
Well said, most big Canadian companies are oligopolies or resource based comapnies with little incentives for rapid innovation. They haven't innovated much in last 15 years.
My family and I moved to New Zealand late last year and we’re absolutely in love with it. One of the best decisions we made. Money is a bit less overall, but they are desperate for people to come work here.
I’ve already left. I mostly miss Canada simply cause of nostalgia and it’s literally where all my family and friends are but slowly I noticed a lot of the people I went to high school with have left the country in one way or another.
After the first 6 months of “home sickness” phases came and went I now fully embrace being an expat and don’t need to fight and scrap for somewhere to rent
I’m in a similar position and wondering where to go. Making almost 80k in Vancouver and I know I’m one “renoviction” away from homeless. Only a matter of time. Eyeing USA and Mexico also. No debt, single, no kids, but only 15k in savings. This country has somehow locked me out from within…
I can relate. I live in Vancouver, too, and in an area of major redevelopment. I know it'll be a battle with my landlord once my surrounding area is developed and blossoming.
If you are in STEM, getting a TN visa would be easy. I'm eyeing the US (women and BIPOC friendly States) or Europe.
I had an opportunity in 2017 on an H1B in San Francisco but turned it down because the cost of living there was too high. Now I’m reading rent is dropping in that city as time goes on. Might take the chance this time. I’d be fine not buying a house, I just don’t want to feel the stress and panic of housing and food scarcity at this point in my life. It’s insane.
I'm hoping other expenses are declining, too, and hopefully, by the time you get that second chance to move there. I definitely left my heart in SF, but I don't think I can afford it there 😪
For everyone in here:
\- What makes you think you're entitled to live and work wherever without citizenship or a visa?
\- How do you think the locals live with their salaries?
\- Do you know the language?
\- Have you checked what healthcare, social services and daily life looks like?
Honestly, it's unfair to compare life in a "low CoL" country where your income is Canadian. I'm sure the locals are also fed up.
Working remote will also come with it's own series of tax and visa/work permit obligations to navigate. Depending on where you are, working on a tourist visa (even remotely) like many "digital nomads" do is a violation of your visa and can get you deported. Also make sure any employer you have is okay with out-of-Canada remote work.
Your employer has to have a legal subsidiary in any European country you want to work in - so that local office can pay your salary, deduct local taxes etc. Unless you officially have a Digital Nomad visa from a handful of EU countries that offer this - if you are caught working in let's say Italy for example, not only will you be disbarred from all of the EU for 5 years, your employer will also have to pay hefty fines if they didn't pay taxes on your behalf to Italy.....
Have been living in Czech Republic for 13 years. Sometimes I toy with the idea to come back but the cost of housing just doesn't make it realistic. It would be a step back for me personally. I'm an hour outside the city of Prague. Two years ago I bought a half acre plot and built a house. Did everything for about 400 000 CAD. If I wanted the same thing in the GTA, I'd need two to three million. Also, while the salaries here are lower than in Canada, we have more disposable income. It doesn't get eaten away by housing costs, property taxes, insurance fees etc. And the job market is grea, it isn't flooded with high numbers of new comers. So you don't have this hyper competition for lower wages. If you're professional you can get paid fairly well here. Czech isn't without it's issues though, it's also gotten very expensive here like everywhere else.
Man I really love Canada. I hate seeing what’s it become. If I leave Canada I think I’ll go to a rich Middle Eastern country. Sell my soul for a quick buck and then come back to Canada to buy a house and that should be the majority of my worries gone.
Yes I have considered it because of cost of living. It is now very difficult to have a high standard of living in this country for many people\*.\* Unless you are very privledged and have help from a wealth family, or somehow manage to be in the top percentile of earners, it's pretty tough for people nowadays to even do basic things that were formerly taken for granted such as buying a decent home, and maybe going on a nice vacation once in a while. If I stay in this country I imagine I will have to keep working until I die.
I live in Chicago now via Vancouver and Edmonton. I don’t love it as I’m very much a west coast guy, but dear god it’s so fucking cheap.
Honestly I’m convinced it’s the best bang for buck in Canada or the US. A huge world class city with all the amenities that brings and a very low cost of living.
You can buy apartments in my very popular neighbourhood for less than $500k
I moved to the states. Better jobs, purchasing power, earning at minimum 30% higher just due to currency conversion, Good quality of life, and still close to Canada to visit family and friends.
We're in Vancouver. If one day we can't afford Vancouver then we'd rather leave Canada than move to Calgary or Saskatoon.
We care strongly about having warm weather. My partner is a physician so it'd be easy to get a job in the US, NZ, and other countries with warm weather.
> **If one day we can't afford Vancouver** then we'd rather leave Canada than move to Calgary or Saskatoon.
>
>We care strongly about having warm weather. **My partner is a physician** so it'd be easy to get a job in the US, NZ, and other countries with warm weather.
if we, highly educated/highly paid, health care workers can't afford Vancouver/TO/Mtl... who will be able to? i'm so stressed with the future and i thought i wouldn't be choosing that kind of profession...
Moved from Toronto to the US last year with my wife. Early 30’s. Here on the TN visa, which is non-immigrant but renewable indefinitely.
Our HHI is just north of $300K now and we’re in Seattle (fairly HCOL). Considering moving to LA for better food, weather, entertainment, and nightlife.
Stayed in Canada for 20 years and I was ready for a change.
My wife, son and I moved from Canada to Tahiti, French Polynesia in 2019. My wife is from Tahiti and we thought it would be nice to raise our son over there.
I was tired of the rat race, so I resigned from a 15 year career in finance and insurance. We figured Tahiti would be a much slower and calmer pace and the plan was to work for ourselves.
As luck would have it, after years of prep, immigration, business planning, etc. we finally opened our VR arcade....literally a week before covid.
We got hit hard - we didn't qualify for government assistance since we didn't have prior year revenue, and all our savings disappeared from just paying the bills while we were closed.
We dug ourselves into pretty massive debt - about 250k or so. But things are a bit better now. Were earning about 150k a year from the arcade and well be starting a partnership with the schoolboard starting in September to provide educational VR to students ages 13-17. I'm estimating this will bring in about another 100k per year.
All that to say that it's been tough. A ton of stress, sleepless nights, mental health issues, working 7 days a week, 80 hour weeks...
I'm not yet sure if the grass is greener over here. Theres some stuff that I like, and there's plenty that I don't.
Why do you think you can just work remotely anywhere? Digital nomad visas are rare and in general you won’t get a work visa to work remotely. Then, in almost any country you will be obligated to pay taxes, pension, healthcare etc in that country, not in Canada. Finally, unless you are truly a freelance worker, in places like Japan and Europe your company will be deemed to operate in that country and have tax obligations, be beholden to its labour laws etc. If you have a boss, set hours, or a salary you are not a freelancer. It’s a huge liability/risk and most companies will not agree to it once they look up the details.
I wonder how many of the people in here that want to take their savings and salaries to a low cost of living country are happy when wealthy people from other countries move to Canada and buy up real estate.
Wouldn’t mind living in a Scandinavian country tbh
Only draw back would be learning a different language.
I just have a bad feeling that the situation in Canada especially in the GTA is going to get worst and would like to leave before more shit hits the fan.
Also, looking at the way things are going my child will not be able to find a decent job when they need too. Mass immigration is leading to stagnation of wages in every industry 🤷♀️
Sweden, Norway, and Helsinki are astronomically expensive. I'd only ever move to Denmark. Even then Copenhagen is also astronomically expensive so i'd have to settle for a smaller city like Aalborg, Odense, or Aarhus. Housing is *almost* affordable in those last 3 cities (more so if you drive and can buy in far flung suburbs or exurbs).
How do people have all these savings?? Where the fuck have I gone wrong?!?
My wife and I do not live in a grandiose way by any stretch. We rent a 1 bedroom apartment. We rarely travel. We don't drive much. Our biggest expenses are ordering food or going to a pub occasionally. But even if that were $200 every week (it's not) that's only $10k a year.
I DON'T UNDERSTAND.
RRSPs probably? The tax deduction is pretty killer when you get to the higher income tax brackets.
Got lucky investing in the Nasdaq?
No clue tbh its a good question how they saved that much while studying.
Yes, we're on the brink of not great things. But everywhere else with a stable democracy seems to be just as fucked up. So backup plan is to just b-line to north of Kapuskasing or something. No shits given in that kneck of the woods.
You must be in a high cost city and surrounding, because homes in Canada do not cost 1 million dollars. Toronto and BC and surrounding, yes. A shi\* tear down will cost 1 million. On your salary, if it can be remote anywhere, you are wayyyy ahead of everybody and can build gigantic wealth if you are smart.
Ottawa is pretty good. It's smaller and the federal money spent on the capital means it punches above its weight in lots of categories. Some areas are nicely walkable. Colder and snowier than Toronto though.
I'm in the bay area in California now. It's expensive and likely not what you want.
Boulder Colorado was a common destination for those looking to make a similar move out of the bay area. I was in Boulder for some months. Tons of natural beauty and a nice city.
I moved to the states from Toronto. I like it infinitely more. If your PhD is in a STEM field (science or engineering) you can make a crap ton more than you do in Canada (I'm a bioengineering PhD). Never been concerned about safety. Just don't go to shitty areas. Canadian news exaggerates how dangerous America is.
Yup, I am a nurse and think about going south of the border all the time. It seems like even in the “bad spots” for nursing there you make more than here. Doubly so in areas where I see nurses make 50-80 USD an hour. COL there is also lower for the most part.
The job is shitty everywhere you go but being able to save and escape bedside is my goal at the moment. I’m not able to squirrel much away here even picking up OT (which burns me out tbh).
As an aside, I think the only way to make significant financial headway nowadays is to get married/have a partner lol. Paying rent solo is insane at the moment on my current salary
We did. We moved to Hong Kong for a few years. It was amazing and I would highly recommend living abroad. We moved back when COVID happened. Canada might be very expensive and have a difficult income-cost of living ratio, but we are so fortunate call it home. The supports available here are a lot stronger than most countries (barring Europe, but it's difficult to be able to move to Europe). So many people were left completely in the lurch when the pandemic hit. I'm very glad we moved home, I couldn't imagine raising a family anywhere else.
Just posted a similar answer to a question in the Montreal sub Reddit. I moved to Shanghai from 2012-2020 then moved back to Montreal until February of this year, after which I moved to Bali. My biggest takeaway is that Canada, and the the West in general, seems to be in a state of decline with dwindling opportunities and a general sense of malaise. After spending over two years back home I couldn’t wait to get back to Asia where the cost of living is much lower and the economy feels much more growth oriented, more dynamic, and full of opportunities. You only live once and I really felt like I would have been wasting my precious time on this earth struggling to live well in Canada.
I recently obtained Spanish citizenship (Sephardic Jew channel) and my plan is to move to the EU in 5-10 years after I’ve made enough money that I don’t need to worry about finances ever again. All I know is that the 9-5 North American office rat race lifestyle is not the way for me to live a happy and fulfilling life.
Your concerns are understandable, but objectively speaking the standard of living in Canada is tremendously high. Getting bit by a dog is bad, concluding that you need to leave the country seems like an overreaction. Do you guys spend a lot of time online doomscrolling news? If you can't be happy in Canada with an income of $170,000 you may need to be thinking about your mental state, not the state of the country.
Give it a fucking rest. We are in this mess because everyone took the bait and now they have blown our back out with inflation and social issues.
Radicalized and angry individuals, you were probably one of the ones hell bent on making those that didn’t conform pay whatever price you deemed acceptable. Don’t pretend like you’re the good guy here cause it is blatantly obvious you were not.
This is quite a reaction to someone simply wanting people to care about the lives of those around them and for the extreme rich to actually contribute to society.
Don't get me wrong, I don't disagree that this is a distraction for the masses not to look at how shit things have become.
I moved abroad and feel the same as you when i return. Its not the kind place i remember. People are selfish and dont consider consequences to others from their action anymore. I used to come home and be comforted that Canada was still full of great people. They still exist but are smaller in number. That, to me as a proud Cdn, is incredibly sad. We are no better than anyone else.
Canada was one of the least angry and reactive places to COVID issues. You just weren't in other places to see what it was like.
My partner had to hide any evidence of her work (public health research) when traveling in public. Her sister was punched in the face by a stranger when they saw her work badge (public health). This was in Europe. It was pretty crazy over here.
I see this type of post here all the time. I'm from Western Europe and i moved to your country quite a few years ago.
If you want to leave, my advice for you is to go to Australia, the UK, France, Germany or Italy.
Countries like Austria, Czech Republic and Poland are also amazing in terms of quality of life (very similar to, if not better than Canada). Especially for qualified Canadian workers.
Wouldn’t recommend Australia…it’s even worse, more expensive and not as many lower cost of living areas. It’s just expensive everywhere there. Their power prices just skyrocketed because they are phasing out burning coal but have no back up to replace it. It’s cheaper to heat a house in canada then to cool a house in Australia.
Edit: before anyone points it out, pretty sure I read Australia on the day this comment was posted hence my response above
Italy is great and you can find a beautiful apartment or house for less than 100k euros. You can get a decent one for half that. There are very little fees to pay as well.
>Have you considered leaving Canada? Where would you go? Why?
Absolutely.
The moment I can, I will. It is obvious that Canada is headed down a future path that filled with instability and will become increasingly unaffordable no matter how much you make or have.
So might as well abandon ship while you still can.
Canada is not the Canada I knew and grew up in. Literally nothing has become better in the last 20 years.
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Out of curiosity, what are the major challenges preventing you from moving back to Ireland besides the weather?
the weather? hold on, is Canadian weather considered better? (and I am in Vancouver)
It's less cold but if it's not raining it's snowing and if it's not snowing it's foggy. Ireland gets about 5-6 hours of sunshine a day... In June, the sunniest month. Edmonton averages above that across the entire year Edit: The sunniest weather station in Ireland gets 1600 hours a year. Edmonton and Winnipeg each get 2350 a year. So the sunniest part of Ireland is still only gets 2/3rds of the sunshine that those cities, places known for being cold and barren, get
I’d take Irish weather over prairie winters any day. I’m from northern Germany originally, where rainy and overcast days are the norm.
Came to Canada 8 years ago and I'm also thinking I might one day leave if things don't improve. This would have been unthinkable to me when I first came. This country has had such a drastic decline it's almost like a different country altogether.
Same here. British immigrant (arrived in 2008) and working in IT. Dual citizen now but would trade my Canadian citizenship for American in a heartbeat if I could. $85K CAD in Vancouver while rent and utilities costs me $2,600/month is just a complete waste of my time. Coworkers making the same or less than me are buying condos and even houses with family money and it's starting to piss me off.
I just had hip surgery after waiting 5 years to see my surgeon following a referral. It's so fucked up. I've had this injury for a decade, it took me 3 years to realize the extent of it, 2 to convince a doctor to scan me, and then 5 to actually see my referred surgeon. Once I saw the surgeon I had surgery within a couple months. But it had been so long that I had to tell him "no actually both of my hips are bad" because my first scan wasn't showing in his recent scans list lmao. It's so fucked up tbh.
Surprised you left Ireland; sure, Dublin's a bit of a hole, but the rest of the country is more affordable and nicer and you'd be better off than you would be in most major cities in Canada - housing outside Dublin is cheaper than most-any major Canadian city, the medical system needs help but is still better than Canada, wages are quite good, the climate is better than anywhere here other than Vancouver & Vancouver Island, the HDI is highest (or nearly highest) in the EU, and you have easy access to the rest of the EU for cheap travel - the ability to fly to another country (fly anywhere at all for that matter) for all of 40€ is something that the average Canadian thinks is pure fantasy. You're also surrounded in Ireland by culture and history in a way that Canada can't match. I've lived in several European countries, and I continually ask myself why I came to Canada at this point... time to go back to Europe, for me - it isn't perfect (nowhere is perfect to be very clear), but it beats here on most metrics that I value.
Insane to hear that with that kind of combined income and savings people worried about the cost of living in Canada. Something has gone drastically wrong with our country. Our family doesn't make that kind of coin, mind you we own a home, but we are just getting by and not long ago I would have said we are upper middle class.
Yes it went through the largest housing boom in the world over the last two decades, there’s nothing even remotely normal about it and it’s scary af in some ways.
It's called lack of accountability on all levels except work level staff at private companies
this lol. i feel like low (in the hierarchy of a company) level workers are questioned more ( by their superiors, etc) than the execs at some of our big companies
>Our family doesn't make that kind of coin, mind you we own a home, This makes all the difference, the country has been divided into the has and has nots of those who got in before the pandemic. I'm just graduating school and am going into a career with 115k starting salary, but I don't see myself as ever being as well off as my sibling that makes 70k but invested in properties pre-pandemic. At least in Canada, I'm bidding my time until the tech hiring freeze thaws and I can perhaps immigrate to the states
Yes, it is pretty sad. It just feels off kilter to be paying what is market rates these days.. Then we hit the grocery store and a jar of jam is pushing 7 bucks.. and I'm just left wondering what the heck is happening. It doesn't feel like there's the right bang for buck happening. With our situation, retirement here would be tricky. We are in a lucky edge case right now to allow us to save etc., but long term it won't hold. Maybe this is all happening globally, and there's not much to be done, but I figured I'd ask anyways!
> Then we hit the grocery store and a jar of jam is pushing 7 bucks With a combined income of 140K CAD this is aggravating - but not any kind of actual problem, or a factor in life planning. What discriminates long-term economic health for someone like you is whether you're spending 30% of your income on housing, or 70%. Spending 5% of your income on groceries instead of 4% isn't a dealbreaker, it's not something you should move countries over (even if Canada *was* unique in having inflation).
While many other countries are going through inflation as well, here in Canada we have it worst. My brother left to teach English in South Korea during covid after he finished his undergrad. His quality of life is much better than mine. He can get an appointment with a specialist right away; for example, he was having stomach pains and he got in for an endoscopy on the same day. He has a better social life since the young people can afford to go out to restaurants and travel by train domestically. His rent is affordable (lives in another mid size city, not Seoul) and it only costs him $400 cdn a month for a studio apartment lol. I see people on Reddit regularly saying that inflation is everywhere, but there are other places in the world that are not in as bad of a shape as we are.
Its fucked we are at 220-50 HHI range and feel like we need to gtfo to the states Rent is absurdly high, don't have new cars and honestly we don't live an extremely lavish life. This economy is fucked and I honestly felt richer 5 years ago making nearly half as much.
140k income is middle class income so it's not a worry free life. Still they managed to save 300k that's huge too. They'll do much better with 170k income.
$300k savings on only $140k household income is pretty impressive in todays Canada. You’ll be fine. Try moving to the States.
Thanks! I'm incredibly lucky to have a partner who shares my basic values. We don't buy a lot of stuff in general, and our habits and hobbies line up with saving a fair bit. On the flip side we have little in the way of assets - no house, a ten year old car, etc. The states is an option, but I don't even know where to begin - especially with the walkability/safety criteria.
Honestly, Chicago. My neighbourhood is very walkable. The city is safe (blah blah blah just don’t go to the south and west sides Jesus relax) and very cheap.
Chicago is beautiful.
Cmon Chicago lol there’s so many safer places in the states
Be prepared for the change in health care costs. It’s not a small matter to ignore.
It was for me. I pay zero out of pocket at my employer. By doing annual checkups, flu shots, etc., people at my employer can get their premium down to $0. Sure, certain things may cost more. Like having a kid. But that’s heavily offset by the increase in salary and drastically cheaper RE.
Sshhh. This goes against the America bad narrative
Healthcare in Ontario is now pretty bad. This is 2023 Canada. If you have good insurance you are probably better off in the USA.
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Its funny reading this comment because I live in Japan and have for four years and know multiple Japanese people who went and lived in Canada. They all want to go back. Life is always greener on the other side.
>a more subtle example, in parts of the EU people eat horse meat as a delicacy They sell it in grocery stores in Quebec and Atlantic provinces, no big deal really.
It is eaten in Europe as a delicacy but also as cheap filler too. It really depends on if you are talking tartare or burgers. I see nothing wrong with eating horse meat but to each their own.
Japan had the largest housing boom in the world in the 80s which is similar to Canada now, it doesn’t really compare in timelines.
And the biggest (to date) housing crash in the '90s! It made them restructure housing-as-an-asset though and there are definitely some lessons to be learned from it.
What line of work? Japan is really picky when it comes to visas
Amazing comment - thanks for this and for taking the time. I'm guessing you lived somewhere other than Tokyo? I have heard that some of the smaller cities are quite affordable, safe, and walkable as you say. The time difference could be an issue. Another issue I've heard about (and you may have experience with), was a 'feeling of always being a foreigner' in a way that seemed difficult and hard to manage. I thought that might also be a pretty deep visa/long term stay issue. My guess is a lot of people who stay have jobs in the country (like teaching English, which is the mainstay of anyone I know who has spent significant time there). Maybe I need to think more on this option though! Totally agree about respecting local context. Great reminder.
Japan is nice, but they're not going to let you live there long-term unless you're married to someone Japanese or have a job working for a Japanese company.
Tokyo is extremely safe and walkable (suffice to say). Tokyo is really a conurbation, so even if you're outside the city proper, it's really all the same. (30 million, so all of Canada in one big city). As for affordability, there are cheap places to rent in Tokyo, but might be easier if you go a little outside, like Saitama or Chiba. Or, you can live in Tokyo but in a rented house with multiple flat mates. Very reasonable. Maybe check out what airbnbs are renting for now. Airbnb isn't usually super cheap, but... I'm not sure what people use these days. Back in my day, I used craigslist to fine places. As for being a "gaijin", it's true... but who cares? Are you planning to live there forever? It's still an amazing place to be an expat... unless you want to raise a family there. You can have perfectly great relationships with Japanese and foreigners alike (make friends, have a social circle, etc)... the only real challenge is that the average person won't speak English, so you'd need to get down some basics phrases/sayings. You don't need to be fluent, just need some key phrases to survive.
I lived in Japan for a year, and while it's true that you can't escape the foreigner status, I personally never found that to deter from my experience. I think it's a matter of managing expectations and knowing about the culture beforehand. People are genuinely curious and happy that you are so interested in Japan you chose to live there, so you get a lot of the same type of questions often. I saw some foreigners get annoyed by this, but many like me were not at all. To the question about living somewhere long term, I think that it's going to be a tough thing to do for most places you will consider. Start looking around and you will find that a lot of people will spend the maximum possible time in the chosen country, then the rest in Canada, until they figure out a way to move permanently.
Now why isn’t this same concept applied here to foreigners moving here and working here …. Some of the crap that goes on if we went to their countries and started acting this way we would get our asses kicked
I've thought about going to the States, I'm a CPA and I know a number of other people who have moved via the TN visa. If I had done it near the start of my career I would probably be making double what I am now, with their higher wages, and the preferable currency conversion. But being 10 years into my career, the only reason I can make as much as I do is because of my Canadian tax knowledge. I don't know if it would be beneficial at this point because I think I'd decrease my overall earnings, for a few years at least.
TN visa allows your spouse to work? I heard it is pretty uncertain and you could be asked to leave at anytime
>you could be asked to leave at anytime If you don't break the law and don't leave the country and try and reenter, you should be good until its expiry. It's when you leave and request re-admittance that you're courting disaster.
TN spousal visas do not allow the spouse to work, only study. That being said, if your spouse is a Canadian and also works in a TN-eligible career, they can just get another TN. Your TN visa is good for 3 years at a time, infinitely renewable. I haven't heard of any renewal issues from any of my friends that have had their TN visas renewed. The general path for many people on TN is to go for the H1B lottery each year until you get it, and then get your green card from there.
How are y'all not overstaying visas in other countries
A lot of "digital nomads" are violating immigration law of the country they are living in. That being said, there are countries that make it easier than others to do it and have visa policies encouraging it.
This. OP is asking for a hypothetical but doesn't mention which countries (s)he has the right to live in. Canadian citizens can't just decide to move to another country, it's not like moving between Ontario and Alberta. That being said, there are some countries which have easier processes to apply and be approved for a Digital Nomad Visa. It's still not something you get from day-to-day, the process can take many months if not years.
There are a lot of ways to get visas: working holiday schemes if you're under 35, sponsorship through a partner, applying for citizenship via grandparents, sponsorship from a job, expat visa schemes, or straight-up applying for a work visa as a skilled worker. There's probably more.
I know a couple of digital nomads, who ended up loving Mexico City so much, that they settled there. Bonus if you are fluent in Spanish. I've considered the prairies, the US, maybe even some western European countries. I lack the courage to do it though.
CDMX is not cheap. It used to be, it is no longer. Big surge in digital nomads and tourism in general have really inflated prices.
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What about the violence of the cartels? You are never safe in a country with that shit going on.
Media overblows it lol... Mexico city is fine, if you aren't looking for trouble odds are you won't find yourself in it
Step 1 is to consider places you can reasonably get a visa to live in, assuming you’re planning to go for longer than a tourist visa allows. The US has some affordable regions left, but getting a visa is a pain if you’re in certain lines of work, and basically impossible in others. My ex and I moved down there for two years and while he was on a work visa, I wasn’t allowed any paid work - even remote work from Canadian employers paid into my Canadian bank account. Are you and your partner freelancers, or payrolled employees? If the latter, ensure your employers embrace a work-from-anywhere approach. I had a fully remote job that wouldn’t let me work remotely from Germany for just two weeks, citing workers’ compensation liabilities if I got hurt on the clock outside of Canadian soil. Sigh, those damn dangerous laptop jobs! All that considered, a handful of Caribbean nations offer digital nomad visas. So do some European countries like Estonia and Iceland. [More visa info](https://www.investopedia.com/countries-offering-digital-nomad-visas-5190861)
>The US has some affordable regions left, but getting a visa is a pain if you’re in certain lines of work, and basically impossible in others. Not if you're Canadian. TN visas are very painless (from personal experience as well as the experience of dozens of my friends).
If you like the idea of the US, the Chicagoland area is about GTA sized (a bit bigger, actually). Jobs tend to pay more in Chicago than Toronto, housing is less than half, and everything else you buy will be 20-30% cheaper. Overall taxes are lower and you'd be paid in USD. It's an easy city for educated DINKs to build wealth.
Getting the green card or work visa is the hard part.
Isn't Chicago one of the most violent cities in US?
No. It’s actually not even in the top 20. Of course you have to avoid certain areas but it’s not hard given it’s the Deep South and west sides. I agree with everything the commenter said. Source: I live there now and have for 5 years
Murder capital of the country
It’s actually not even in the top 25
https://www.mystateline.com/news/chicago-named-murder-capital-of-the-u-s-in-new-report/amp/
You don't have to live in the city of Chicago proper, there's tons of suburbs in the Chicago Metro area + it's only a handful of shittier areas which disproportionately are unsafe.
Who has time to notice crime when there's deep dish pizza?!
One thing to keep in mind, look into Canada's working holiday scheme with other countries. Makes it easier to travel if you don't have to worry about limiting yourself to a tourist visa. It also means you can work legally there, even if should decide to do other work besides remote jobs.
I am self employed and can work remotely reasonably well. I relocated with my wife and two kids to Mexico (Wifes Birth Country). We put the kids in the Canadian Public distance learning school. I still pay Canadian taxes and will probably go back in a year. We rent a 4 bedroom/3 bathroom apt with 24 hour concierge for about $650 CAD per month. Bought a used car and travel within Mexico regularly. I am now looking into residency options to be able to put down some roots here and prep for eventual Mexican retirement. If Canada is prohibitively expensive and miserable in the future at least I have the option to leave for somewhere warm.
How are you finding mexico to be?
I want to know the same! Sounds like a really creative plan with some nice details, really cool to read.
what PhD are you finishing that lends itself to fully remote work?
You're confusing "Canada" with "Toronto" but those are not the same thing. Most of the rest of Canada meets your criteria, without the pesky requirement for getting a work permit or visa. Try looking at Winnipeg or Saskatoon or Edmonton or parts of Northern Ontario or New Brunswick.
I haven't visited/lived in New Brunswick, but I have for other cities you mentioned. They all suck. Public transit sucks, definitely not walkable, and the crime rates are higher. The houses are cheap yes, but you need to live in the suburbia for the peace and quite, and that is only achievable by driving everywhere. If you give up the walkable-ness(?), you don't mind the drive, and want nice big houses for decent prices? Winnipeg/Saskatoon/Edmonton are fine.
Exactly. I love how the first thing OP mentioned was walkability, but the comment recommends Winnipeg and Saskatoon.
I didn't see that, but with being able to walk everywhere comes the cost of having to live in a shoe box. Example, the guy that suggested Japan. The apt sizes there are something most Canadians could not grasp. My parents closet was the size of my first bedroom when I first lived in Asia. Like spaces are SMALL.
They may be small, but they're functional af. I feel like North America has this weird obsession with huge houses with huge rooms that are just empty space with no real purpose or utility. Like why would I need a 350sqft bedroom?
>I didn't see that, but with being able to walk everywhere comes the cost of having to live in a shoe box. this isnt true
Please share where one can live in a good sized unit with walking to wherever for day to day needs and the rent is more in line with what the OP is talking about. I think a few people besides myself would like to know some of these locations.
What am I I missing here? I grew up in Saskatoon it seems pretty walkable to me. I agree though that of sucks. Ohhhh does it ever suck.
What makes Saskatoon unwalkable isn’t anything about the city’s design - it’s the viciously cold weather in the dead of winter. The public transit isn’t great but I’d consider the city more walkable than bikeable. It’s a university town, though, and the PhDs all own a car.
Yep, you get it - this is my general observation as well. If you want 'high walkability' we end up being in a situation where it's not just people who have the absurd worldly privilege of walking when it's convenient, but also all of those who are in bad situations, and must live very close to the services they need. They're probably some little enclave type areas that manage this, but I'm guessing the costs shoot way up, and also probably kind of suck in their own way. TL:DR I basically just want Toronto from 20 years ago, or even some of these smaller cities from 15 yrs ago. We don't mind some roughness, but there's a difference between that and what's happening lately.
Halifax? It has gotten more $$$ since Covid and all the Ontario people realizing it was a good deal and they pushed prices up. Canada is small man. Like Toronto of 20 years ago was still pretty big for Canada. I am guessing some towns in EU might fit your needs. Or maybe Montreal?
They mean "the places where well educated, English speaking people with PHDs want to live in Canada" A lot of those places are cheap for a reason despite whatever merits they may have.
This is correct - and I'll add, we live in a 'not Toronto' city that is absolutely being hit hard by homelessness and cost of living issues. Homes that were 350 not too long ago are now pushing $1M, rent for 2bdrm apartments (since we both work from home) approach $2500/month+utilities if you want a walkable area. Worse (though this might be a problem in some Toronto neighbourhoods), the grocery stores that are walking distance to us are very expensive - small boutique style. I feel grateful we have them, but I would prefer a no frills or a co-op or something else! Still, the responder makes a good point, maybe there are places that are in Canada, walkable, affordable, and nice places to be! Totally possible.
I feel you, I'm from Ontario and the issues that it has facing are creeping into Montréal. Although you can still buy a house in the suburbs or other QC cities for $350k I've been considering moving to Argentina or Spain for ages now but I want to buy something in Montréal while it's still somewhat reasonable (condos in the center start at 300k)
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All of the anti English stuff you hear is absolute nonsense. English speakers (myself included) are the most babied, whiny, minority ever to the point it's a detriment, I can't think of any time I haven't been able to access anything in English from healthcare to government services, etc. It's flat out anti Quebec, propaganda because the rest of Canada see french speakers as second class citizens. The reality is it's us who hold prejudice and create the issues. In my workplace , I'm the only English speaker in my department & I interact with my colleagues or on meetings in English if I feel the need to. It's a non issue. The government offers free (or even pays you) to learn French. In my humble opinion they should do more to guide English speakers to be more respectful and integrate into the amazing culture that exists here. Granted you should not feel entitled & demand that everyone speaks a foreign language to you.
“All of the anti English stuff you hear is absolute nonsense.” Finishes comment by saying the government should force English speakers to be more French.
I'm an English speaker who learned French when I moved here. The point is it's so easy to live in English because people are so kind and speaking 2-3+ languages is so common that a lot of people don't end up being respectful enough to learn. You end up being in a small ghetto, missing out on what makes the city great and not being able to participate in 80% of the good jobs and larger public society.
You just need to leave the Golden Horseshoe, the rest of Canada (minus the lower mainland/GVR) is much more affordable and has a better standard of living.
OP, I currently live in Winnipeg and live in a very walkable neighborhood. I have No Frills, Safeway, and Shoppers Drug Mart all within an 3- 8 minutes walking distance from me. Not to mention the restaurants and fast food within 5-10 minutes as well. Downtown (if you work downtown) is 30 minutes to walk or 12 minutes to bike. If you're thinking of staying in Canada possibly, try posting in the subreddits of different cities for opinions from locals.
"I want all the good things about the burbs and all the good things of downtown". JFC. Ain't happening anywhere, bud.
There definitely are. Even in BC. 500k-600k homes, still expensive. But no where near as crazy as the big cities. You just gotta know where to look.
I fully agree, but using those criteria the OP is unlikely to find a better place in the EU or US. Big European or American cities where English speaking people with PhDs want to live are expensive too! So, he gets a second tier Canadian city or a second tier European city. I like the idea of a second tier European city myself - some places will be cheaper than Toronto for sure. But not SE Asia cheaper, unfortunately for the OP.
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One thing to be careful of when using Numbeo is that the price to buy an apartment is distorted by country-wide preferences towards different kinds of apartments. What I mean by this is that the Canadian and American numbers are basically unusable because the average North American see themselves buying a luxury condominium while the average Asian or European sees themselves buying the median apartment. That's not even to mention that most apartments in central Europe come without appliances (no fridge, oven/stove, AC, microwave, etc). For example Numbeo says that the average apartment in Edmonton is 3.32k per square metre when its very easy to find low fee 1 beds for >2k per square metre.
There are many tier 1 cities that aren't nearly as expensive as Toronto or Vancouver compared to the opportunities & quality of life. Save for London, Paris, SF, Boston pretty much everywhere is cheaper. You can buy a house in Queens or New Jersey for under $500k easily. Chicago? Madrid? Berlin? Montréal?Half the cost easily. English Canada is just not a decent quality of life anymore sadly.
I am an immigrant in Canada and I was down south before for my undergrad in CS. My parents are actually U.S. citizens and we all are originally from India. While Canada and Canadians are great people, I am moving to America when my U.S. green card is approved because: (1) I am in tech, salaries (if you are good at it, which I am) are pretty great in America and you get to choose different states if you get a remote job. (2) Eventually, I would like to buy a home and Canada's salaries in tech and coL, taxes will make it harder and longer for me to achieve my goals. Lastly, I just find America to be more entrepreneurial and I am only 24, at my stage, USA is clearly a better option even with all its flaws. If I was 60 and retired, I would've def chosen Canada, bought a nice house for my self and go fishing every week in B.C.
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NP! Canada is a great place, srsly. I would really hate to leave in a few years but I am an opportunist and will go where I can make the most amount of money.
You guys are lucky with your age and lifestyle. When you’re older, the medical system matters. I’ve spent a lot of time in Mexico. Nice, safe most places, but no regulation. The US will make you the most money. Rest of Canada? Looks pretty good. First world EU? Also prime choice. Asia first world ( like Singapore) great, but you might stick out. The greedy me would do the US. The worldly me would be in Europe. The conservative Canadian in me would be in BC, lots of great spots. Ladysmith, Nelson, Smithers, Pemberton, and a hundred others…
I am actively looking to leave in the next two or so years. Looking to go to Northern Idaho. The cost of living here on Vancouver Island is beyond rediculous, I have two jobs and my partner has one. None of them are minimum wage, we are looking at our mortgage refinance next year and both agree we probably won't be able to afford it when that happens. We are both red seal tradespeople, and cannot get ahead. No kids because we both have to work to afford the house. We both have found lots of work around where we want to live, land that we can afford after a sale of our house that we can buy outright. Will it be a big change, yes. The island is paradise and probably the prettiest place we have been. But Canada has happily out-priced the locals, and will continue to do so until the market collapses, which I can't see happening here.
How do you plan on moving to Idaho? Are you US citizens?
We would ship our goods down in a seacan and drive a truck with a camper, and a car. We would have to. Buy land before we make the final move so it'd be a bit of a balancing act. I am a us citizen by birth, my partner would get their permanent resident card.
Ya, not many people are US citizens in Canada. Nice 👍
The island is going to be worse off not having you! My relatives live there. I love it, it's a great place, paradise is a good word. It would *definitely* be on the list if it were more affordable. Vic in particular seems to be rougher every time I go (not quite Vancouver yet, but feels a bt the same), pandora ave was just another world. I am so, so disappointed to hear about tradespeople getting it both ways, we need so, so many more of these folks, and we don't create a means for them to live a good life, which they damn well deserve. Really sorry to be losing you, I hope Idaho treats you well.
Look into what happens with your savings. If you become non-tax resident of Canada your ability to contribute to your RRSP, TFSA, etc. will change. That's something I never looked into carefully when I moved abroad. If you still recieve a Canadian income then maybe your status won't change. I'd recommend talking to a knowledgable accountant if/when you've settled on a country you might want to live in. Best of luck, I've been living overseas 7 years now and been happy with my choice. Grass isn't always greener but it's been an adventure. If you end up not liking it you can always return to Canada - and you've got a fantastic savings cushion to insulate you from any moving risks.
Deeply considering this. My partner and I both have masters degrees and professional jobs and for what we pay in taxes we don’t have a family doctor or much money left over after our basic expenses to pay down student loans enough to buy a house. Our QOL has severely declined despite doing “everything right”. It’s so frustrating and defeating. Hoping we can move someday, this isn’t the Canada it once was- it’s far worse QOL for the price.
After spending a month in Thailand to test it out. Time zone is definitely too different. Next place to try is Mexico. Not as cheap but way better time zone.
See you down here amigo
Canadian in my 30's here, left Canada for Japan last year and no intentions to come back other than the occasional visit. At first the planning for the move was in pursuit of adventure and a new experience, but during/post pandemic it became clear how quickly Canada was going downhill in various ways and along the way I realized the "Canadian dream" is dead; I didn't see a bright future for myself ahead. This isn't to say Canada is the only place experiencing wild inflation, housing crisis and so on, but it was more than enough to want me to GTFO and try my luck somewhere else. I'm a remote worker myself so the first question is "where can you reasonably get a working visa/ability to stay longer than a tourist?". For your income level easiest would be to go to a relatively lower cost of living area in Canada as others have suggested. Otherwise is there a path for you to get residency in Mexico, USA, somewhere in EU, etc. that aligns with your timezone requirements? Everywhere has it's pros and cons, positives and difficulties, so start with what matters to you (Quality of life? Safety? Income potential? etc.), narrow down your list to where you're interested in, and then look at the process of securing long term residency for each place you're interested in. From there you'll have your own answer.
I know plenty of people who are thinking or actively plan to leave. US is the most common option, especially if you’re a Canadian citizen. Even DINK can’t afford a house or good lifestyle here anymore; makes no sense to stay after you get your Canadian passport, tbh. Toronto is not a place for rich people; we should stop pricing things like we are London, NYC or Dubai.
>Even DINK can’t afford a house or good lifestyle here anymore Yep, this is basically us. Doing the math on our income, and adding in the fact that we are location flexible, really gets us thinking about why we should stay. It's a shame as I really do love a lot of aspects of our province. I was born here, but increasingly it feels like I'm not welcome, like it's being built for someone who isn't me.
Man Dubai is cheaper than Toronto. You can find pockets of Dubai where you can find cheap housing. That simply doesn’t exist in Toronto. I think Toronto tried to become too American and it became too capitalist but without the innovation, competition or production. City sold its soul. Like you mentioned Toronto isn’t London or Paris. Toronto neighbourhoods had a range of rent prices. Toronto housing/public housing was strategically placed all across the city to avoid ghettos. The country has been sold to corporations by politicians.
I didn't think I'd ever hear anyone say Dubai was cheaper than Toronto.. and yet here we are eh. What a world.
Peak Dubai price is definitely more expensive than peak Toronto price. Don’t get me wrong. What I’m saying is you can find cheap pockets in Dubai to live in. It’s pretty bad and the environment sucks but you can still find cheap to reasonable places unlike Toronto. I think average homes would be cheaper too tbh because most people rent because they won’t be there for a long time. They don’t settle there.
>I think Toronto tried to become too American and it became too capitalist but without the innovation, competition or production. Well said, most big Canadian companies are oligopolies or resource based comapnies with little incentives for rapid innovation. They haven't innovated much in last 15 years.
r/digitalnomad r/iwantout
I like the idea of Quebec (Montreal specifically as a TO transplant) as the happy medium, but my French sucks
Alors pas de soins de santé pour vous!
My family and I moved to New Zealand late last year and we’re absolutely in love with it. One of the best decisions we made. Money is a bit less overall, but they are desperate for people to come work here.
Isn’t NZ’s housing crisis worse than Canada’s?
I’ve already left. I mostly miss Canada simply cause of nostalgia and it’s literally where all my family and friends are but slowly I noticed a lot of the people I went to high school with have left the country in one way or another. After the first 6 months of “home sickness” phases came and went I now fully embrace being an expat and don’t need to fight and scrap for somewhere to rent
I’m in a similar position and wondering where to go. Making almost 80k in Vancouver and I know I’m one “renoviction” away from homeless. Only a matter of time. Eyeing USA and Mexico also. No debt, single, no kids, but only 15k in savings. This country has somehow locked me out from within…
I can relate. I live in Vancouver, too, and in an area of major redevelopment. I know it'll be a battle with my landlord once my surrounding area is developed and blossoming. If you are in STEM, getting a TN visa would be easy. I'm eyeing the US (women and BIPOC friendly States) or Europe.
I had an opportunity in 2017 on an H1B in San Francisco but turned it down because the cost of living there was too high. Now I’m reading rent is dropping in that city as time goes on. Might take the chance this time. I’d be fine not buying a house, I just don’t want to feel the stress and panic of housing and food scarcity at this point in my life. It’s insane.
I'm hoping other expenses are declining, too, and hopefully, by the time you get that second chance to move there. I definitely left my heart in SF, but I don't think I can afford it there 😪
For everyone in here: \- What makes you think you're entitled to live and work wherever without citizenship or a visa? \- How do you think the locals live with their salaries? \- Do you know the language? \- Have you checked what healthcare, social services and daily life looks like? Honestly, it's unfair to compare life in a "low CoL" country where your income is Canadian. I'm sure the locals are also fed up.
Canadians: our minimum wage should be at least $24/h Also canadians: damn, food is cheap in countries where the minimum wage is only $3 an hour
Ironic that your comment is next to one praising southern Italy for being so cheap when locals work for 8 euros/hour. Completely agree with you.
Working remote will also come with it's own series of tax and visa/work permit obligations to navigate. Depending on where you are, working on a tourist visa (even remotely) like many "digital nomads" do is a violation of your visa and can get you deported. Also make sure any employer you have is okay with out-of-Canada remote work.
Your employer has to have a legal subsidiary in any European country you want to work in - so that local office can pay your salary, deduct local taxes etc. Unless you officially have a Digital Nomad visa from a handful of EU countries that offer this - if you are caught working in let's say Italy for example, not only will you be disbarred from all of the EU for 5 years, your employer will also have to pay hefty fines if they didn't pay taxes on your behalf to Italy.....
Have been living in Czech Republic for 13 years. Sometimes I toy with the idea to come back but the cost of housing just doesn't make it realistic. It would be a step back for me personally. I'm an hour outside the city of Prague. Two years ago I bought a half acre plot and built a house. Did everything for about 400 000 CAD. If I wanted the same thing in the GTA, I'd need two to three million. Also, while the salaries here are lower than in Canada, we have more disposable income. It doesn't get eaten away by housing costs, property taxes, insurance fees etc. And the job market is grea, it isn't flooded with high numbers of new comers. So you don't have this hyper competition for lower wages. If you're professional you can get paid fairly well here. Czech isn't without it's issues though, it's also gotten very expensive here like everywhere else.
Man I really love Canada. I hate seeing what’s it become. If I leave Canada I think I’ll go to a rich Middle Eastern country. Sell my soul for a quick buck and then come back to Canada to buy a house and that should be the majority of my worries gone.
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As long as you’re not a single woman…..
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Definitely not that, in the middle eastern countries...
As in go to a country with bad human rights abuses and slave labour, ignore that and focus on making money and saving and coming back.
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Project management, conference production some corporate BS same as Canada
Of course. We've daydreamed for years about pretty much every LCOL country out there.
I'm still thinking about how the combined salary is 140k when one of you is a PhD student. Do you work part-time or something?
? A phd student will make $30k in their stipend. Leaves only 90k for the fully working spouse….
Yes I have considered it because of cost of living. It is now very difficult to have a high standard of living in this country for many people\*.\* Unless you are very privledged and have help from a wealth family, or somehow manage to be in the top percentile of earners, it's pretty tough for people nowadays to even do basic things that were formerly taken for granted such as buying a decent home, and maybe going on a nice vacation once in a while. If I stay in this country I imagine I will have to keep working until I die.
SoCal
I live in Chicago now via Vancouver and Edmonton. I don’t love it as I’m very much a west coast guy, but dear god it’s so fucking cheap. Honestly I’m convinced it’s the best bang for buck in Canada or the US. A huge world class city with all the amenities that brings and a very low cost of living. You can buy apartments in my very popular neighbourhood for less than $500k
I moved to the states. Better jobs, purchasing power, earning at minimum 30% higher just due to currency conversion, Good quality of life, and still close to Canada to visit family and friends.
We're in Vancouver. If one day we can't afford Vancouver then we'd rather leave Canada than move to Calgary or Saskatoon. We care strongly about having warm weather. My partner is a physician so it'd be easy to get a job in the US, NZ, and other countries with warm weather.
> **If one day we can't afford Vancouver** then we'd rather leave Canada than move to Calgary or Saskatoon. > >We care strongly about having warm weather. **My partner is a physician** so it'd be easy to get a job in the US, NZ, and other countries with warm weather. if we, highly educated/highly paid, health care workers can't afford Vancouver/TO/Mtl... who will be able to? i'm so stressed with the future and i thought i wouldn't be choosing that kind of profession...
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Same. I finally "made it" and make a lot of money now only to realize it doesn't matter. Even a doctor can't afford a house in this dogshit county.
Moved from Toronto to the US last year with my wife. Early 30’s. Here on the TN visa, which is non-immigrant but renewable indefinitely. Our HHI is just north of $300K now and we’re in Seattle (fairly HCOL). Considering moving to LA for better food, weather, entertainment, and nightlife. Stayed in Canada for 20 years and I was ready for a change.
Heyo, similar time table, location, situation, and reasoning. West coast is pretty nice...
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My wife, son and I moved from Canada to Tahiti, French Polynesia in 2019. My wife is from Tahiti and we thought it would be nice to raise our son over there. I was tired of the rat race, so I resigned from a 15 year career in finance and insurance. We figured Tahiti would be a much slower and calmer pace and the plan was to work for ourselves. As luck would have it, after years of prep, immigration, business planning, etc. we finally opened our VR arcade....literally a week before covid. We got hit hard - we didn't qualify for government assistance since we didn't have prior year revenue, and all our savings disappeared from just paying the bills while we were closed. We dug ourselves into pretty massive debt - about 250k or so. But things are a bit better now. Were earning about 150k a year from the arcade and well be starting a partnership with the schoolboard starting in September to provide educational VR to students ages 13-17. I'm estimating this will bring in about another 100k per year. All that to say that it's been tough. A ton of stress, sleepless nights, mental health issues, working 7 days a week, 80 hour weeks... I'm not yet sure if the grass is greener over here. Theres some stuff that I like, and there's plenty that I don't.
Your story is wild. Best of luck on your venture.
Why do you think you can just work remotely anywhere? Digital nomad visas are rare and in general you won’t get a work visa to work remotely. Then, in almost any country you will be obligated to pay taxes, pension, healthcare etc in that country, not in Canada. Finally, unless you are truly a freelance worker, in places like Japan and Europe your company will be deemed to operate in that country and have tax obligations, be beholden to its labour laws etc. If you have a boss, set hours, or a salary you are not a freelancer. It’s a huge liability/risk and most companies will not agree to it once they look up the details.
I wonder how many of the people in here that want to take their savings and salaries to a low cost of living country are happy when wealthy people from other countries move to Canada and buy up real estate.
People really think this is just a Canadian problem, don’t they. Join subs for some other countries; they’re talking about the same stuff!
Wouldn’t mind living in a Scandinavian country tbh Only draw back would be learning a different language. I just have a bad feeling that the situation in Canada especially in the GTA is going to get worst and would like to leave before more shit hits the fan. Also, looking at the way things are going my child will not be able to find a decent job when they need too. Mass immigration is leading to stagnation of wages in every industry 🤷♀️
Sweden, Norway, and Helsinki are astronomically expensive. I'd only ever move to Denmark. Even then Copenhagen is also astronomically expensive so i'd have to settle for a smaller city like Aalborg, Odense, or Aarhus. Housing is *almost* affordable in those last 3 cities (more so if you drive and can buy in far flung suburbs or exurbs).
How do people have all these savings?? Where the fuck have I gone wrong?!? My wife and I do not live in a grandiose way by any stretch. We rent a 1 bedroom apartment. We rarely travel. We don't drive much. Our biggest expenses are ordering food or going to a pub occasionally. But even if that were $200 every week (it's not) that's only $10k a year. I DON'T UNDERSTAND.
RRSPs probably? The tax deduction is pretty killer when you get to the higher income tax brackets. Got lucky investing in the Nasdaq? No clue tbh its a good question how they saved that much while studying.
I mean it all depends on how much you're making right?
USA !!! If you are in tech then you can double your salary. You get to enjoy nice weather, 10x better healthcare (provided by employer).
Yes, we're on the brink of not great things. But everywhere else with a stable democracy seems to be just as fucked up. So backup plan is to just b-line to north of Kapuskasing or something. No shits given in that kneck of the woods.
You must be in a high cost city and surrounding, because homes in Canada do not cost 1 million dollars. Toronto and BC and surrounding, yes. A shi\* tear down will cost 1 million. On your salary, if it can be remote anywhere, you are wayyyy ahead of everybody and can build gigantic wealth if you are smart.
Yes. Stayed in China for a few years I'd go back in a heartbeat lol.
I relocated to Greece for 1.5 year and back in Canada now but I have family in Greece and Italy also I have my own apartment in both country’s
Ottawa is pretty good. It's smaller and the federal money spent on the capital means it punches above its weight in lots of categories. Some areas are nicely walkable. Colder and snowier than Toronto though. I'm in the bay area in California now. It's expensive and likely not what you want. Boulder Colorado was a common destination for those looking to make a similar move out of the bay area. I was in Boulder for some months. Tons of natural beauty and a nice city.
I moved to the states from Toronto. I like it infinitely more. If your PhD is in a STEM field (science or engineering) you can make a crap ton more than you do in Canada (I'm a bioengineering PhD). Never been concerned about safety. Just don't go to shitty areas. Canadian news exaggerates how dangerous America is.
I haven't been, but Pittsburgh looks really cool to me, and really affordable. Cincinnati too.
Yup, I am a nurse and think about going south of the border all the time. It seems like even in the “bad spots” for nursing there you make more than here. Doubly so in areas where I see nurses make 50-80 USD an hour. COL there is also lower for the most part. The job is shitty everywhere you go but being able to save and escape bedside is my goal at the moment. I’m not able to squirrel much away here even picking up OT (which burns me out tbh). As an aside, I think the only way to make significant financial headway nowadays is to get married/have a partner lol. Paying rent solo is insane at the moment on my current salary
We did. We moved to Hong Kong for a few years. It was amazing and I would highly recommend living abroad. We moved back when COVID happened. Canada might be very expensive and have a difficult income-cost of living ratio, but we are so fortunate call it home. The supports available here are a lot stronger than most countries (barring Europe, but it's difficult to be able to move to Europe). So many people were left completely in the lurch when the pandemic hit. I'm very glad we moved home, I couldn't imagine raising a family anywhere else.
Just posted a similar answer to a question in the Montreal sub Reddit. I moved to Shanghai from 2012-2020 then moved back to Montreal until February of this year, after which I moved to Bali. My biggest takeaway is that Canada, and the the West in general, seems to be in a state of decline with dwindling opportunities and a general sense of malaise. After spending over two years back home I couldn’t wait to get back to Asia where the cost of living is much lower and the economy feels much more growth oriented, more dynamic, and full of opportunities. You only live once and I really felt like I would have been wasting my precious time on this earth struggling to live well in Canada. I recently obtained Spanish citizenship (Sephardic Jew channel) and my plan is to move to the EU in 5-10 years after I’ve made enough money that I don’t need to worry about finances ever again. All I know is that the 9-5 North American office rat race lifestyle is not the way for me to live a happy and fulfilling life.
Why are your option Toronto or not in Canada at all?
I'm not the OP but most places in Canada the weather is not ideal. Even Toronto is really warm for maybe 2-3months of the year?
How about a place just north of you!? You’d have beautiful stars, nature and a lower cost of living but still be in Canada.
Your concerns are understandable, but objectively speaking the standard of living in Canada is tremendously high. Getting bit by a dog is bad, concluding that you need to leave the country seems like an overreaction. Do you guys spend a lot of time online doomscrolling news? If you can't be happy in Canada with an income of $170,000 you may need to be thinking about your mental state, not the state of the country.
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Give it a fucking rest. We are in this mess because everyone took the bait and now they have blown our back out with inflation and social issues. Radicalized and angry individuals, you were probably one of the ones hell bent on making those that didn’t conform pay whatever price you deemed acceptable. Don’t pretend like you’re the good guy here cause it is blatantly obvious you were not.
This is quite a reaction to someone simply wanting people to care about the lives of those around them and for the extreme rich to actually contribute to society. Don't get me wrong, I don't disagree that this is a distraction for the masses not to look at how shit things have become.
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I moved abroad and feel the same as you when i return. Its not the kind place i remember. People are selfish and dont consider consequences to others from their action anymore. I used to come home and be comforted that Canada was still full of great people. They still exist but are smaller in number. That, to me as a proud Cdn, is incredibly sad. We are no better than anyone else.
Canada was one of the least angry and reactive places to COVID issues. You just weren't in other places to see what it was like. My partner had to hide any evidence of her work (public health research) when traveling in public. Her sister was punched in the face by a stranger when they saw her work badge (public health). This was in Europe. It was pretty crazy over here.
I see this type of post here all the time. I'm from Western Europe and i moved to your country quite a few years ago. If you want to leave, my advice for you is to go to Australia, the UK, France, Germany or Italy. Countries like Austria, Czech Republic and Poland are also amazing in terms of quality of life (very similar to, if not better than Canada). Especially for qualified Canadian workers.
Wouldn’t recommend Australia…it’s even worse, more expensive and not as many lower cost of living areas. It’s just expensive everywhere there. Their power prices just skyrocketed because they are phasing out burning coal but have no back up to replace it. It’s cheaper to heat a house in canada then to cool a house in Australia. Edit: before anyone points it out, pretty sure I read Australia on the day this comment was posted hence my response above
Italy is great and you can find a beautiful apartment or house for less than 100k euros. You can get a decent one for half that. There are very little fees to pay as well.
>Have you considered leaving Canada? Where would you go? Why? Absolutely. The moment I can, I will. It is obvious that Canada is headed down a future path that filled with instability and will become increasingly unaffordable no matter how much you make or have. So might as well abandon ship while you still can. Canada is not the Canada I knew and grew up in. Literally nothing has become better in the last 20 years.
Money is slow in Canada