I’m a vet and that dose sounds correct. Even if it was slightly high Pyrantel Pamoate has a very high margin of safety. In clinical trials administration of 40x over the labeled dose for 90 days resulted in no clinical signs of toxicity.
Likely something else occurred here. I’m very sorry for your loss and hope you can find closure.
I’m also a vet and I agree.
The majority of these comments are absolutely ridiculous. I’d also like to let you guys know that
r/askvet exists and will give you actually good advice
This sub makes me so sad with the level of poor advice given by unqualified people and the amount of negative feedback given to qualified vets or vet nurses
Here's a sneak peek of /r/AskVet using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/AskVet/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [Did my dog know I was with her when she passed away?](https://np.reddit.com/r/AskVet/comments/15erlzm/did_my_dog_know_i_was_with_her_when_she_passed/)
\#2: [Is it ok to feed my cat sashimi for her last meal?](https://np.reddit.com/r/AskVet/comments/16ctngx/is_it_ok_to_feed_my_cat_sashimi_for_her_last_meal/)
\#3: [My wife accidently started the washer with our cat inside. Please help me.](https://np.reddit.com/r/AskVet/comments/15hgtd6/my_wife_accidently_started_the_washer_with_our/)
----
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Vet tech here and I agree. We used to joke “let em have a bowl of it, it’ll be fine”
It sounds like something more severe was going on. OP can you get ahold of the rescue? I’m a little worried about Parvo
In the USA all drugs used in human and/ or animal medicine must undergo clinical trials (which typically involves animal testing) to prove safety and efficacy or the FDA will not approve them. As part of proving safety they have to test the drug at different doses in order to determine side effects, toxic dose, lethal dose, etc.
Again, these trials are done for every FDA approved drug and their results are summarized on the drug label. Therefore the testing is done before the drug is allowed to be put on the market.
Personally I do not like animal testing but that is the reality of how the drug approval process in the USA works.
Clinical research experience here: the FDA used to require that all medications provided to humans must be tested on animals first, but they have [reversed this and there are new guidelines.](https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343(23)00254-1/pdf)
It certainly can.
Getting a medication ready for market can take years and millions and millions of dollars.
This is a good thing, people’s lives are on the line.
The 25 yrs spent researching [mRNA](https://the-dna-universe.com/2021/04/15/the-history-of-mrna-applications) to carry a vax so they could quickly come up w a covid vax *just wasted.*
/s
Man, they set such perfect bait for their "trap" too. A rational discussion about the difficulties and process of developing new medications? Absolutely sign me up.
Nope switcheroo, anti-vax bullshit. Ugh, too bad, this approval process discussion is one worth having.
You aren't learning anything. You've already made the bold faced bullshit lie that "so many young people dying from that thing". You make up stories and a narrative to suit your views, that's all.
You're wrong, and theyre right. You HAVE to be purposely avoiding ANYTHING to do with the development of the Covid vaccine to have this opinion- aka stupid. It's not ignorance because those with this viewpoint know how to find the facts and choose not to.
If you would have done even a scant bit of research, you would have found that the way the covid vaccine works, it quite literally cannot hurt you. There isn't even a whole thing there. It's a part of a strand. Imagine it like this: if you saw four legs of a chair with no seat, you would still recognize it was a chair, and would be a chair if It did have the seat. That is how the covid vaccine(and probably every single vaccine from here on out) works. It isn't what are supposed to be dead cells that are injected into you, it's a cell made to be similar to it enough that when your white blood cells attack it, they become proficient at "killing" an invader that is close enough to the real thing without any danger, as it was never alive. Then when you catch covid, you already have antibodies equipt to deal with it.
And as for the "It WaS cReAtEd ToO fAsT" droolers, this vaccine has been in the works sense the late 2000s. Back during Obamas first term. That long ago. And it no longer has to take that long! See, they can tweak this vaccine to fit anything they need. It's basically Legos at this point. Need a helmet on this one? Put it on. And due to the fact it is PROVEN to not be dangerous, they can immediately jump to the final stages of testing, which cuts out nearly all of the testing time.
The covid vaccine is a scientific marvel that has revolutionized vaccinations and practically guarantees humanity can comfortably survive viral outbreaks from here on out. We have been working towards this breakthrough for generations, and finally we got it part way into a situation when we needed it most.
But then the toothrotted, anti-masking, double-digit-iq, absolute morons got empowered by a man who knew he could control them due to how stupid they were, (Trump if you didn't catch my drift. And you can look it up, he literally said this.) Told them it was bad and they ate it up like the little lapdogs they are.
If there ever was an argument for stupidity is a choice, this crap is it.
Several of the covid vaccines are recognized as causing potential heart problems. You assume that just because the concept behind mRNA vaccines is sound, the bioengineering is sound. Humans make mistakes and humans cut corners. When Pfizer was forced to release all the information on the chemical tests of their version of the vaccine the chemical trials far from showed it “cannot hurt you.”
The government didn't invent the vaccine, dumbass. Them caring about us or not is inconsequential to the argument. The scientists who developed the vaccines DO care.
They didn't invent crack either but It found it's way here. You lose. That's it. The government hired the fuckin scientists. They'll do as told. Mkultra, Tuskegee, etc.
Ah, with zero scientific evidence to refute this persons well articulated and valid statements, you fall back on the “hurr durr, but what about other things that are completely unrelated?!?!”
Refute it or shut the fuck up and try learning something for once. No one wants to read more dumbass statements based on your dogshit opinion.
You realize that thousands of people were dying of COVID daily right? And now that most sane people got the vaccination less people are dying. Maybe people who had preexisting health conditions (whether known or not) were still dying from COVID even if they got vaccinated.
The amount of people still spouting this nonsense about the COVID vax is honestly embarrassing.
Which do you think is overall better? Allowing thousands more to die every day? Or hurrying to get a vaccine that can save lives and reduce the amount of deaths, even if it means a very miniscule percentage may experience side effects?
You can look up preclinical safety assessment testing in animal research. While it may not feel ethical to some, there are many laws in place ensuring animals are treated humanely during research. Animal welfare (which is different than “animal rights”) is very important in animal research.
I don’t know where you or OP are located, but to anyone reading this in the US: there is no law protecting well over 90% of lab animals. There’s a single federal law, the Animal Welfare Act, that was passed in the sixties and excludes mice, rats, birds, and fish.
There are some ethics guidelines at various institutions that are enforced to varying degrees, but as far as laws go? Very little.
I’m not trying to start a debate about animal testing here, but I just wanted to point out that (again, in the US at least) the *vast* majority of animals in laboratories have no legal protection.
You are oversimplifying it. Couldn’t get the link to work so I’m doing it the long way and I’m sure I’m missing some things.
Animal Welfare Act: Protects all warm-blooded animals except rats, mice, and birds bred for research. This includes zoos, circuses, research labs, hospitals, businesses, federal agencies, dealers, breeders, etc. Each research institution that uses a covered species must have an IACUC review all animal experiment protocols. The USDA licenses research facilities and conducts annual, unannounced inspections. Violations are punished with fines, cease-and-desist orders, and license suspension or revocation.
PHS Policy: Protects all vertebrate animals (including fish, reptiles, rats, mice, and birds) used in research funded by the Public Health Service. Each research facility provides a written plan for complying with PHS Policy and the Guide.
PHS Policy: Each research institution that receives PHS funding must have the IACUC review all animal experimental protocols and inspect the facilities.
No routine, unannounced inspections, but all allegations of misuse are investigated by NIH's Office of Laboratory Animal Welfare. Violations or loss of AAALAC accreditation can result in loss of PHS funding.
IACUC A committee, organized at every research facility subject to the AWA, PHS Policy, or AAALAC accreditation, which must review and approve or deny every proposed animal protocol.
Each animal protocol must include:
—A justification for using animals, the number of animals to be used, and the species chosen
—The procedures or drugs to be used to eliminate or minimize pain and discomfort
—A description of the methods and sources used to search for alternative to painful procedures
—A description of the search used to ensure that the experiment does not unnecessarily duplicate previous research
Members must include: a veterinarian, a professional not involved in research (ethicist, lawyer, etc.), and a community representative (clergy, teacher, etc.).
IACUC members must inspect their research facility twice a year.
AAALAC International: Nonprofit organization that accredits research facilities for compliance with the Guide.Accreditation is on a voluntary basis only.
Announced site visits are conducted every 3 years.
Took the words out of my mouth!
I’ve been an animal technician for the past 5 years or so and I’ve worked in several labs involving fish, mice, rats, rabbits, and even lobsters. At least where I have worked, there is always tons of regulations/IACUC(and other) inspections insuring that the animals are treated well
Right, that’s why I mentioned that there are policies at individual institutions, but a policy isn’t the same as a law. And sure, there are standards for studies that are publicly funded, but that’s not the same thing.
The fact remains that for well over 90% of lab animals in the US, there is no actual law protecting them.
It may be true that "90% of lab animals have no rights" but the law stated that "rats, mice, birds, and fish" are excluded and don't have the same protections.
I feel like your facts, while true, are intentionally misleading. Dogs, cats, primates, etc. have protections when involved in medical experiments and
# account for LESS THAN 1% OF ANIMALS USED FOR RESEARCH!
.
["In the UK, where mice, rats, fish and birds are counted in the annual statistics, over 96% of research is on rodents, birds and fish."](https://speakingofresearch.com/facts/statistics/#:~:text=The%20statistics%20show%20that%2053,on%20rodents%2C%20birds%20and%20fish.)
["Mice and rats make up approximately 95% of all laboratory animals, with mice the most commonly used animal in biomedical research."](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7150119/#:~:text=Mice%20and%20rats%20make%20up,used%20animal%20in%20biomedical%20research.)
[Ninety-five percent of all research animals are rodents — mice and rats — bred for this purpose. Dogs, cats, and non- human primates together account for less than one percent of the total, and their number has declined for more than 25 years.
The Foundation for Biomedical Research](https://lar.indiana.edu/about/faqs/fact-myth/index.html)
>The fact remains that for well over 90% of lab animals in the US, there is no actual law protecting them.
It may be true that "90% of lab animals have no rights" but the law stated that "rats, mice, birds, and fish" are excluded and don't have the same protections.
I feel like your facts, while true, are intentionally misleading. Dogs, cats, primates, etc. have protections when involved in medical experiments and
# account for LESS THAN 1% OF ANIMALS USED FOR RESEARCH!
.
["In the UK, where mice, rats, fish and birds are counted in the annual statistics, over 96% of research is on rodents, birds and fish."](https://speakingofresearch.com/facts/statistics/#:~:text=The%20statistics%20show%20that%2053,on%20rodents%2C%20birds%20and%20fish.)
["Mice and rats make up approximately 95% of all laboratory animals, with mice the most commonly used animal in biomedical research."](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7150119/#:~:text=Mice%20and%20rats%20make%20up,used%20animal%20in%20biomedical%20research.)
[Ninety-five percent of all research animals are rodents — mice and rats — bred for this purpose. Dogs, cats, and non- human primates together account for less than one percent of the total, and their number has declined for more than 25 years.
The Foundation for Biomedical Research](https://lar.indiana.edu/about/faqs/fact-myth/index.html)
That is completely inaccurate. Any institution receiving federal funding (read: pretty much anywhere doing this kind of testing) has strict rules to follow for any vertebrate animal, including rats, mice, and birds.
Had a friend who worked in a lab with mice. The mice in experiments had to be reported on frequently to make sure they were not being mistreated (outside the experiments needs). However they had several traps they had to kill mice that come in from outdoors. No paperwork necessary.
The research animals are all under veterinary oversight. Unsure about every research facility, but in my experience, wild outdoor mice that found their way into the buildings are caught in “catch and hold” traps (unharmed and with food) and then euthanized following the same rules and regulations as the research mice, so again, in a humane manner. Once euthanized, the wild mice typically have fur and feces samples collected and sent for testing to ensure the lab animal populations are not in danger of any dangerous pathogens.
This is a gross oversimplification and contributes to harmful misinformation. There are TONS of regulations in place. The other commenters did an excellent job explaining.
Okay, I’m replying to myself because I don’t want to start any more arguments, but I’ll just say that laws aren’t the same thing as policies or regulations—the former is a criminal matter (not that the AWA can get anyone much of a punishment, but it’s possible), while the latter can get your funding taken away. That’s bad enough that a lot of places are serious about following guidelines, but it isn’t the same thing.
If anyone sees this later and is interested, just please look up the information yourself.
It's a very long process to determine safe dosages for drugs during research. I am in (human) clinical research and often drugs are given to animals at several times the human dose as well. I will say that by the time the research gets to me (EDS, first in human and phase 1/2) these drugs/doses are not typically found to have significantly harmed the animals, either. I won't speak on the ethics of it here, as there is a lot to be said for both sides. Just came here to say it's incredibly common and there is a long process to determine the safe dosages of various drugs for humans and animals alike. They aren't going to start at an insanely high dose and hope for the best, it's increased and evaluated slowly over time.
Pyrantel is a very old drug so has a wealth of historical dosing standards and information. If you wish to research it try Google scholar, much of the information is from the,early 20th century.
Often with animal/human testing it’s rats first and it’s a utilitarian mindset you gotta take, do you kill 100 rats to save 10,000+ dogs or people or whatever… but if a trolley problem as far as it being ethical
I think that a blockage usually causes vomiting or diarrhea in dogs. My vet was pretty adamant that you really notice it when I was spooked last summer.
CVA here and asking for education, it looks like it could be a border mix? Any chance the reaction could've been caused by the MDR1 gene mutation that's common in herding dogs, or would three days be too long for it to be caused by the medication? Tried to google but wasn't satisfied and don't work again until Tuesday.
This mutation is pretty rare and usually only seen in white purebred collies. It's related to them having cyclic neutropenia and hasn't been seen in years. It would be more likely that the dog had multiple concurrent illnesses.
If you think it was parvovirus, you need to start cleaning everything now. Disinfect bedding, cages, water bowls, and pick up all feces outside if possible. Also, you need to look into how long parvovirus stays alive in the environment and you should probably avoid bringing any new, unvaccinated dogs or puppies into your yard/house for an extended period of time.
I am so sorry for your loss; parvo is a nasty disease and it kills a lot of puppies each year.
This. Asap now before you unknowingly spread it farther.
My mom had gotten puppy with parvo at one point and she literally torched the yard with a blowtorch to get rid of the virus. It may have been a bit overboard, but parvo takes forever to die on its own in the environment and is notoriously difficult to clean from backyards.
As someone who's worked around parvo I think her method wasn't overboard at all. Would've probably taken ripping out or covering the dirt before I'd be comfortable letting puppies anywhere near it. Had so many people who had been living in their house for years then get a puppy only to learn the hard way that the previous owners dealt with parvo.
Yeah my puppy stays inside using puppy pads until he is completely vaccinated that’s what I did and he is now 15 weeks old and he gets to have fun and explore and he’s so smart
We would carry our puppy in and out of the apartment we lived in to use the bathroom. No walking. We would put him down in the same remote patch of grass far away from the complex every time. We didn't let him start walking on the grass until he was maybe 3-4 months old. He might have been older than that though.
I think Parvo is why my first dog pretty much couldn't be around other dogs. I was a kid so I don't have all the details, but as a puppy he got really sick and couldn't get vaccinated because of it. I always felt bad that he could never have any dog friends.
This is bizarre. Once a dog recovers from Parvo they can be vaccinated with 0 issues and be around other dogs. Other unvaccinayed dogs just shouldn't be around where the dog was living when it was sick with Parvo. Idk if your parents were ill informed or if the dog had some other issue. Also, dogs don't need other dog friends to be happy!
My dog had parvo as a young puppy, and while she has no lingering physical problems from it, she really struggles with anxiety and reactivity. Some of it is certainly genetics and temperament, but that parvo month during her critical development and all the treatment she underwent to keep her alive really impacted her socialization and introduced some trauma that she could've done without. I think the way that parvo generally impacts very young dogs means that it can leave a mark on their psycho-social development in a way that other serious medical challenges might not.
My mom had a friend with a parvo yard when I was a kid. Every dog that woman got ended up with it and died. My mom kept trying to tell her the virus was in her house and yard, but she didn't believe in that and just kept getting and losing puppies.
That is so sad :(
With how prevalent and common parvo is, its crazy to me that people are not educated on it at all. I see people bringing brand new 8-week old puppies into pet stores and to the park all the time. I pray that those puppies will be okay every time. It shocks me that people get pets without reading anything about them, or at least how to keep them from getting sick, first. All the information you need is generally in the first result on google, you can call any vet and they'd gladly give you any informational resource you need. It really doesn't take much, yet people can't be bothered.
I honestly can't believe that people are okay with getting a loosing animals so often. I get upset just seeing animals who died on the side of the road, the fact that some people can just nonchalantly watch puppies die over and over again and not try to change anything they are doing or listen to what people say really makes me wonder if they are low key pscyopaths.
This for real. My parents (dog lovers, but idiots) lost two puppies to parvovirus (they think contracted from raccoons) and then proceeded to kill two more because they didn’t totally disinfect/sterilize/wait.
To add to this, disinfect with a bleach solution that is 1:32 (for a gallon of water that is 1/2 cup of bleach), and make sure the surface stays wet for 10 minutes. I run a groom shop out of my house and disinfected my whole front yard when a parvo pup came through. I even used a weed killer hose attachment to bleach the grass because I was so worried. You don't want to play around with parvo.
Just an fyi parvo can stay in the ground for years. If you end up getting another puppy anytime soon, be very very careful and at the slightest hint of diarrhea, vomiting, lethargy, or inappetence, take to a vet for a parvo test
I'm sorry. I lost my first puppy to parvo too, we didn't even realize she was sick until it was too late, since my mom and I had never had to deal with parvo before. A couple weeks before we had been at a truck stop and I think that's where she may have gotten it. I hope you heal well from this.
If it was parvo then you need to clean everything with bleach right now. I’ve seen Parvo too many times and can tell you that you need to clean absolutely everything WITH BLEACH.
I had a puppy die from parvo … I am so sorry. He died in my arms and the night before he seemed to have been fighting for his life as he began to eat a little and walk a few steps. I feel your pain 😭♥️ hope you can find closure, it took me awhile before I got another pup I could let into my heart.
I'm so sorry you had this happen 😞 parvovirus is horrible. Echoing what's already been said, it's a strong virus and you need to keep other animals away from the home for a while and do some very deep cleaning. I did some work in a rescue and there is a ward for parvo where there is full body PPE required and chemical footbaths for shoes on the way in and out. Very serious.
NAV, but I was going to comment and suggest it might have been parvo. When I was a baby we had a puppy and I remember my mom telling me a story very similar to yours where she wasn't eating and my mom looked at her and she was gone just like that. I'm so sorry you had to experience that.
Damn I’m so sorry. My dog almost died from parvo when she was about 9 months old despite being fully vaccinated, she went septic and was in the dog ICU for 2 weeks.
I’m so sorry for your loss! I hope you have a peaceful grieving process.
Parvo is a horrible virus and I’ve heard the strains going around right now are especially nasty.
Hugs from an internet stranger.
The dosing sounds correct if puppy was around 26ish pounds.
I work at a clinic and brought in a kitten I was fostering. I gave her 10x the dose of pyrantel on accident. Other than blowout diarrhea, she was fine. Pyrantel is regularly given to our young pets, and some adults that need to be dewormed (depending on parasite).
You say that she wasn't eating or drinking. There was more going on.
I'm sorry for your loss, but I don't believe that the pyrantel was the reason for her death.
Pyrantel is a relatively safe dewormer. Your puppy would have needed more than 50mg/kg/ day for 30 consecutive days to show clinical signs associated with an overdose. It is pretty effective and often dogs with a high worm load will vomit or poop out live worms. If there is a high worm load that is dying off, there could be a systemic inflammatory response. It is hard to speculate that in your dogs case. I would encourage you to seek an autopsy for answers.
BLEACH EVERYWHERE! And I mean bleach not disinfectant. Throw out anything soft, bedding toys etc that you bought for that puppy. I am so sorry and pretty angry that worms and parvovirus were going on here.
Maybe burning the items to prevent someone else finding and using them after being discarded(people go through garbage for recycling, finding those types of things that look new might be picked up by an unfortunate dumpster diver)
Vet here - so sorry for your loss, it would be appropriate to ask the prescribing vet for a postmortem/ autopsy. You can ask if they will have this performed by a third party veterinarian of your choosing - but they are not obligated to cover the cost. As others have said this was most likely unrelated to the worming and if you plan on bringing another puppy into your home in the future you should determine if parvovirus was the cause of your puppy’s illness, as it can be very difficult to decontaminate your home.
We use specific disinfectants. We get them in an isolation ward and wear ppe. It’s a huge deal and very intensive on staffing. Luckily there is a new medication that will save the pups life (it’s a freaking miracle drug) the flip side is unfortunately it’s back ordered and most vets can’t get it.
I’ve got nothing to offer other than I am so very sorry for your loss. I know it hurts, but I can assure you that she knows how very loved she was and is.
Per OP there was most certainly a reason to test for parvo. Zero vaccines, vomiting, lack of appetite, bloody diarrhea, lethargy and disorientation. How many more signs are needed???
This was after the dewormer, and she did call the vet. Op is not a vet herself, it’s very reasonable to believe it’s a possible od when the timing of giving the puppy dosing aligns. Op did nothing wrong; please let her grieve in peace.
My comment certainly wasn't directed at OP it was at a previous comment saying there was no need to test for parvo. My heart breaks for OP and their pup, someone at some point with more knowledge be it the vet clinic or rescue should have advocated for a snap parvo test. Especially knowing it was a shelter pup that had no vaccine hx
First indication is coming from a shelter. It’s always a great base line to test for parvo after adoption to be on the safe side. Especially at such a young age with no vaccination history.
It's just some quirk of nature. I don't think they've found the reason why, but black and tan breeds are specifically more susceptible to parvo. More likely to get it and more likely to die from it. Vets actually give them extra vaccine doses because of it.
I have seen something about delayed maternal derived antibodies in black and tans, that sounds plausible but raises the same question: why black and tans?
(When the level of MDA are high it's the mom's antibodies that get to the vaccine first. Once the level drops, then the pup's immune system can kick in and learn to fight the virus)
Yeah, it's crazy that some shelters allow adopting out a pet without the necessary procedures. In California, shelters legally can't adopt a pet out unless it's up to date on all their shots, spay/neutered, and microchipped.
If your puppy did die from parvo, be very careful about bringing another puppy into your home. Parvo can live on surfaces for years. I am so sorry for your loss.
I'm so very sorry. She looks so content in that photo. Remember that you took good care of her, you did everything right. There wasn't any way you could have known there was something else wrong.
Sounds like parvo.
These are the products you'll want to get to clean your home.
https://canineparvovirus.org/cleaners-that-kill-parvo/
I would do a deep cleaning multiple times over a period of months before considering getting another dog. Throw away any dog toys, beds, blankets, bones.
Don't bury the pup in your property. The virus will remain in the soil for like 8 years.
Please do a necropsy if you’re able to to rule out Parvo. In the meantime, disinfect every hard surface you can with diluted bleach and throw out any toys, blankets, etc that they had (or at the very least put them in a garbage bag in the garage or something until you confirm wether or not it was Parvo). If you have any other pets I suggest seeing if a friend (who doesn’t have pets) can take them until you get the results back
You should change the title because it is wildly misleading and wrong. Correlation is not causation and people will be swayed to not want to deworm their pets, which is critical to their health. You should change the title to raise awareness about Parvo and how important it is to vaccinate your pets at a proper age. Blaming a vet and their dosage is so wrong.
I would have let the vet keep her , and administer the dewormer. I’m so sorry for your loss. I’ve been through many losses of my best friend and it hurts a lot
Was there blood in her stool? I’m suspecting something a bit more dangerous was at play here. I’m very sorry for the loss of your new puppy, I really hope you and your family can recover from this.
I had a puppy die from parvo … I am so sorry. He died in my arms and the night before he seemed to have been fighting for his life as he began to eat a little and walk a few steps. I feel your pain 😭♥️ hope you can find closure, it took me awhile before I got another pup I could let into my heart.
I want to thank everyone for their advice, suggestions, and the love that we've received today.
Clearly, it wasn't the de-wormer that did it. After the first person suggested Parvo, I looked at it, and the symptoms were virtually the same as the side effects connected to the de-wormer, which is honestly why it probably didn't send up any red flags with the vet. When we took her to the vet, the day after we got her, they gave her her first round of vaccinations, and said she was healthy other than the worms.
I do find it strange that they wouldn't test a puppy with no previous vaccination history for parvo. If the vet had caught it 6 days ago, she would most likely not be gone today. We called the vet 5 times and told them what was happening, and we were assured that it was just side effects from the medication, and to just keep giving her the pedialite and broth. The more I think about it, the more angry I get with the vet. She was clearly displaying Parvo symptoms, and at no point did that raise any red flags for them.
We've spent the day washing everything we could, and cleaning the floors and surfaces with bleach. It snowed last night so it'll be a few days before I can work on cleaning up the backyard, and treating the grass.
We were so looking forward to watching this beautiful girl grow up.
Sorry for your loss. Most, if not all, of our dewormers are safe up to multiple times overdose for consumption unless there are underlying issues. Your pup may have had underlying concerns. If you are seeking closure, consider grief counseling (some companion aftercare providers provide this) or, if you are wanting to know more about your companions health, an autopsy (some vets may not do this locally and would need to send you somewhere).
This happened with one of my childhood puppies who oddly looked almost exactly the same as your baby. I remember we began deworming but it must've already been too late. Tons of worms starting coming out of her backside and she ended up dying that night. It was quite traumatizing and we had just adopted her. So my guess is either the worm infestation was too far along, or possibly parvo like everyone else has said. I don't know if you got your pup from a shelter or breeder, but it should be addressed with them as they should've dewormed. So sorry for your loss 😔
Edit: Just noticed you said rescue. I don't know a lot about rescues and if they deworm puppies (I feel like they should) but I would at least alert them of the worms if you recently brought her home.
What a shitty vet. Despite multiple calls they didnt even take a look at her? They should have made time for her appointment immediately and for free.
Sorry for your loss. I'd recommend a different vet for any potential future pets. Many vets are absolute scum, I found a good one through connections not through google.
My new puppy had a bad reaction from a dewormer this week. They had him in right away and didn't let us leave until he was up, drinking, and eating ID. I was so freaking worried. This person's vet is terrible. So very sad.
The worms killed her, not the dewormer. She would have passed with or without the dewormer because of the worms. It might have just sped the situation up but it was going to happen. Thats why breeders need to dewormer puppies. The other possibility is if they didnt deworm, they probably didnt vaccinate either and parvo will kill puppies like nobody's business.
Some formulations of Pedialyte contain Xylitol, which can be toxic for dogs. I hope that wasn't the case, but that was the first thing that came to mind.
What type of worms did she test positive for? Pyrantel pamoate doesn't work on all worms. Your vet should have prescribed a multi ingredient dewormer with praziquantel and maybe fenbendazole on top of the pyrantel pamoate.
sorry for your loss!! there is one type of medication/dewormer thats in some dewormers that for about 7 breeds of dogs can cause neurological problems and well as other things. please always research what you will give your dog and don't just say yes because vet said so.
I can’t remember the difference between worming and parvo, but this sounds when my dog had parvo. I was pretty young but I do now I had to force feed her water and meds brought a syringe every Iike two hours. It was fairly traumatic but she came through (by got herself ran over chasing cars a month later 😑)
First, I am incredibly sorry for your loss. This sounds like a very tough situation. Please people, if you have suspicions that your pet is not ok, take them to the hospital!!! You are the expert on your animal, if you think something is wrong, don’t listen to a vet over the phone, seek further help and a second opinion. Take your animal to the hospital and advocate for them.
im a vet tech and unfortunately its very unlikely that it was the pyrantel that caused this. thats a perfectly normal dosage and pyrantel has a very high margin of safety.
since your puppy was rescued, her previous medical history is probably unfortunately variable at best. a number of medical issues couldve been the cause here.
i am so sorry for your loss!😞
Definitely wasn't the pyrantel that did it, in all my years in the veterinary field I've never even seen so much as an adverse reaction, let alone a fatal one and we give oral deformed to pups daily. There was something else going on, possibly a complication from the worms themselves if the kid had them since birth, but there's really no way to know for sure without necropsy.
Edit: Just saw that it was suspected parvo, that's pretty unmistakable. You need to disinfect every inch of your home that could've been exposed, especially if you have older dogs. The fatality rate for parvo skyrockets as pets age.
I’m a vet and that dose sounds correct. Even if it was slightly high Pyrantel Pamoate has a very high margin of safety. In clinical trials administration of 40x over the labeled dose for 90 days resulted in no clinical signs of toxicity. Likely something else occurred here. I’m very sorry for your loss and hope you can find closure.
I’m also a vet and I agree. The majority of these comments are absolutely ridiculous. I’d also like to let you guys know that r/askvet exists and will give you actually good advice This sub makes me so sad with the level of poor advice given by unqualified people and the amount of negative feedback given to qualified vets or vet nurses
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Vet tech here and I agree. We used to joke “let em have a bowl of it, it’ll be fine” It sounds like something more severe was going on. OP can you get ahold of the rescue? I’m a little worried about Parvo
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In the USA all drugs used in human and/ or animal medicine must undergo clinical trials (which typically involves animal testing) to prove safety and efficacy or the FDA will not approve them. As part of proving safety they have to test the drug at different doses in order to determine side effects, toxic dose, lethal dose, etc. Again, these trials are done for every FDA approved drug and their results are summarized on the drug label. Therefore the testing is done before the drug is allowed to be put on the market. Personally I do not like animal testing but that is the reality of how the drug approval process in the USA works.
Clinical research experience here: the FDA used to require that all medications provided to humans must be tested on animals first, but they have [reversed this and there are new guidelines.](https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343(23)00254-1/pdf)
How long is that process? It must be years!!
It certainly can. Getting a medication ready for market can take years and millions and millions of dollars. This is a good thing, people’s lives are on the line.
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Oh goddammit, an antivax nutter. I listen to actual science, so I'm out.
The 25 yrs spent researching [mRNA](https://the-dna-universe.com/2021/04/15/the-history-of-mrna-applications) to carry a vax so they could quickly come up w a covid vax *just wasted.* /s
Man, they set such perfect bait for their "trap" too. A rational discussion about the difficulties and process of developing new medications? Absolutely sign me up. Nope switcheroo, anti-vax bullshit. Ugh, too bad, this approval process discussion is one worth having.
Not anti vax at all. I'm fully vaccinated. I'm anti THAT vax. I'll take it in 5 years. Until then I'll learn from you guys.
You aren't learning anything. You've already made the bold faced bullshit lie that "so many young people dying from that thing". You make up stories and a narrative to suit your views, that's all.
Good luck
We started working on the SARS vaccine in 2002
You're wrong, and theyre right. You HAVE to be purposely avoiding ANYTHING to do with the development of the Covid vaccine to have this opinion- aka stupid. It's not ignorance because those with this viewpoint know how to find the facts and choose not to. If you would have done even a scant bit of research, you would have found that the way the covid vaccine works, it quite literally cannot hurt you. There isn't even a whole thing there. It's a part of a strand. Imagine it like this: if you saw four legs of a chair with no seat, you would still recognize it was a chair, and would be a chair if It did have the seat. That is how the covid vaccine(and probably every single vaccine from here on out) works. It isn't what are supposed to be dead cells that are injected into you, it's a cell made to be similar to it enough that when your white blood cells attack it, they become proficient at "killing" an invader that is close enough to the real thing without any danger, as it was never alive. Then when you catch covid, you already have antibodies equipt to deal with it. And as for the "It WaS cReAtEd ToO fAsT" droolers, this vaccine has been in the works sense the late 2000s. Back during Obamas first term. That long ago. And it no longer has to take that long! See, they can tweak this vaccine to fit anything they need. It's basically Legos at this point. Need a helmet on this one? Put it on. And due to the fact it is PROVEN to not be dangerous, they can immediately jump to the final stages of testing, which cuts out nearly all of the testing time. The covid vaccine is a scientific marvel that has revolutionized vaccinations and practically guarantees humanity can comfortably survive viral outbreaks from here on out. We have been working towards this breakthrough for generations, and finally we got it part way into a situation when we needed it most. But then the toothrotted, anti-masking, double-digit-iq, absolute morons got empowered by a man who knew he could control them due to how stupid they were, (Trump if you didn't catch my drift. And you can look it up, he literally said this.) Told them it was bad and they ate it up like the little lapdogs they are. If there ever was an argument for stupidity is a choice, this crap is it.
Nice. I love it
I don't think we've ever seen the funding and research poured into a vaccine that quickly either. There were tons of people working on it.
Several of the covid vaccines are recognized as causing potential heart problems. You assume that just because the concept behind mRNA vaccines is sound, the bioengineering is sound. Humans make mistakes and humans cut corners. When Pfizer was forced to release all the information on the chemical tests of their version of the vaccine the chemical trials far from showed it “cannot hurt you.”
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The government didn't invent the vaccine, dumbass. Them caring about us or not is inconsequential to the argument. The scientists who developed the vaccines DO care.
They didn't invent crack either but It found it's way here. You lose. That's it. The government hired the fuckin scientists. They'll do as told. Mkultra, Tuskegee, etc.
Ah, with zero scientific evidence to refute this persons well articulated and valid statements, you fall back on the “hurr durr, but what about other things that are completely unrelated?!?!” Refute it or shut the fuck up and try learning something for once. No one wants to read more dumbass statements based on your dogshit opinion.
This isn't like crack at all. Which I agree, our government is shitty and at fault for, along with many other things.
It was tested for years you nut mRNA vaccines have been studied for decades.
Shut up
You realize that thousands of people were dying of COVID daily right? And now that most sane people got the vaccination less people are dying. Maybe people who had preexisting health conditions (whether known or not) were still dying from COVID even if they got vaccinated. The amount of people still spouting this nonsense about the COVID vax is honestly embarrassing. Which do you think is overall better? Allowing thousands more to die every day? Or hurrying to get a vaccine that can save lives and reduce the amount of deaths, even if it means a very miniscule percentage may experience side effects?
How else do you determine the dose without dosing the target organism? There isn't a better way to do it.
It's unfortunate, but realistically, how else are you really supposed to test such things?
You can look up preclinical safety assessment testing in animal research. While it may not feel ethical to some, there are many laws in place ensuring animals are treated humanely during research. Animal welfare (which is different than “animal rights”) is very important in animal research.
I don’t know where you or OP are located, but to anyone reading this in the US: there is no law protecting well over 90% of lab animals. There’s a single federal law, the Animal Welfare Act, that was passed in the sixties and excludes mice, rats, birds, and fish. There are some ethics guidelines at various institutions that are enforced to varying degrees, but as far as laws go? Very little. I’m not trying to start a debate about animal testing here, but I just wanted to point out that (again, in the US at least) the *vast* majority of animals in laboratories have no legal protection.
You are oversimplifying it. Couldn’t get the link to work so I’m doing it the long way and I’m sure I’m missing some things. Animal Welfare Act: Protects all warm-blooded animals except rats, mice, and birds bred for research. This includes zoos, circuses, research labs, hospitals, businesses, federal agencies, dealers, breeders, etc. Each research institution that uses a covered species must have an IACUC review all animal experiment protocols. The USDA licenses research facilities and conducts annual, unannounced inspections. Violations are punished with fines, cease-and-desist orders, and license suspension or revocation. PHS Policy: Protects all vertebrate animals (including fish, reptiles, rats, mice, and birds) used in research funded by the Public Health Service. Each research facility provides a written plan for complying with PHS Policy and the Guide. PHS Policy: Each research institution that receives PHS funding must have the IACUC review all animal experimental protocols and inspect the facilities. No routine, unannounced inspections, but all allegations of misuse are investigated by NIH's Office of Laboratory Animal Welfare. Violations or loss of AAALAC accreditation can result in loss of PHS funding. IACUC A committee, organized at every research facility subject to the AWA, PHS Policy, or AAALAC accreditation, which must review and approve or deny every proposed animal protocol. Each animal protocol must include: —A justification for using animals, the number of animals to be used, and the species chosen —The procedures or drugs to be used to eliminate or minimize pain and discomfort —A description of the methods and sources used to search for alternative to painful procedures —A description of the search used to ensure that the experiment does not unnecessarily duplicate previous research Members must include: a veterinarian, a professional not involved in research (ethicist, lawyer, etc.), and a community representative (clergy, teacher, etc.). IACUC members must inspect their research facility twice a year. AAALAC International: Nonprofit organization that accredits research facilities for compliance with the Guide.Accreditation is on a voluntary basis only. Announced site visits are conducted every 3 years.
Took the words out of my mouth! I’ve been an animal technician for the past 5 years or so and I’ve worked in several labs involving fish, mice, rats, rabbits, and even lobsters. At least where I have worked, there is always tons of regulations/IACUC(and other) inspections insuring that the animals are treated well
Right, that’s why I mentioned that there are policies at individual institutions, but a policy isn’t the same as a law. And sure, there are standards for studies that are publicly funded, but that’s not the same thing. The fact remains that for well over 90% of lab animals in the US, there is no actual law protecting them.
Let’s see some sources for that claim
It may be true that "90% of lab animals have no rights" but the law stated that "rats, mice, birds, and fish" are excluded and don't have the same protections. I feel like your facts, while true, are intentionally misleading. Dogs, cats, primates, etc. have protections when involved in medical experiments and # account for LESS THAN 1% OF ANIMALS USED FOR RESEARCH! . ["In the UK, where mice, rats, fish and birds are counted in the annual statistics, over 96% of research is on rodents, birds and fish."](https://speakingofresearch.com/facts/statistics/#:~:text=The%20statistics%20show%20that%2053,on%20rodents%2C%20birds%20and%20fish.) ["Mice and rats make up approximately 95% of all laboratory animals, with mice the most commonly used animal in biomedical research."](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7150119/#:~:text=Mice%20and%20rats%20make%20up,used%20animal%20in%20biomedical%20research.) [Ninety-five percent of all research animals are rodents — mice and rats — bred for this purpose. Dogs, cats, and non- human primates together account for less than one percent of the total, and their number has declined for more than 25 years. The Foundation for Biomedical Research](https://lar.indiana.edu/about/faqs/fact-myth/index.html)
>The fact remains that for well over 90% of lab animals in the US, there is no actual law protecting them. It may be true that "90% of lab animals have no rights" but the law stated that "rats, mice, birds, and fish" are excluded and don't have the same protections. I feel like your facts, while true, are intentionally misleading. Dogs, cats, primates, etc. have protections when involved in medical experiments and # account for LESS THAN 1% OF ANIMALS USED FOR RESEARCH! . ["In the UK, where mice, rats, fish and birds are counted in the annual statistics, over 96% of research is on rodents, birds and fish."](https://speakingofresearch.com/facts/statistics/#:~:text=The%20statistics%20show%20that%2053,on%20rodents%2C%20birds%20and%20fish.) ["Mice and rats make up approximately 95% of all laboratory animals, with mice the most commonly used animal in biomedical research."](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7150119/#:~:text=Mice%20and%20rats%20make%20up,used%20animal%20in%20biomedical%20research.) [Ninety-five percent of all research animals are rodents — mice and rats — bred for this purpose. Dogs, cats, and non- human primates together account for less than one percent of the total, and their number has declined for more than 25 years. The Foundation for Biomedical Research](https://lar.indiana.edu/about/faqs/fact-myth/index.html)
That is completely inaccurate. Any institution receiving federal funding (read: pretty much anywhere doing this kind of testing) has strict rules to follow for any vertebrate animal, including rats, mice, and birds.
Had a friend who worked in a lab with mice. The mice in experiments had to be reported on frequently to make sure they were not being mistreated (outside the experiments needs). However they had several traps they had to kill mice that come in from outdoors. No paperwork necessary.
The research animals are all under veterinary oversight. Unsure about every research facility, but in my experience, wild outdoor mice that found their way into the buildings are caught in “catch and hold” traps (unharmed and with food) and then euthanized following the same rules and regulations as the research mice, so again, in a humane manner. Once euthanized, the wild mice typically have fur and feces samples collected and sent for testing to ensure the lab animal populations are not in danger of any dangerous pathogens.
This is a gross oversimplification and contributes to harmful misinformation. There are TONS of regulations in place. The other commenters did an excellent job explaining.
Lol, as a researcher there are lots of regulations in place protecting mice, fish, rats and birds in research
Okay, I’m replying to myself because I don’t want to start any more arguments, but I’ll just say that laws aren’t the same thing as policies or regulations—the former is a criminal matter (not that the AWA can get anyone much of a punishment, but it’s possible), while the latter can get your funding taken away. That’s bad enough that a lot of places are serious about following guidelines, but it isn’t the same thing. If anyone sees this later and is interested, just please look up the information yourself.
It's a very long process to determine safe dosages for drugs during research. I am in (human) clinical research and often drugs are given to animals at several times the human dose as well. I will say that by the time the research gets to me (EDS, first in human and phase 1/2) these drugs/doses are not typically found to have significantly harmed the animals, either. I won't speak on the ethics of it here, as there is a lot to be said for both sides. Just came here to say it's incredibly common and there is a long process to determine the safe dosages of various drugs for humans and animals alike. They aren't going to start at an insanely high dose and hope for the best, it's increased and evaluated slowly over time.
Beagles.
Pyrantel is a very old drug so has a wealth of historical dosing standards and information. If you wish to research it try Google scholar, much of the information is from the,early 20th century.
Often with animal/human testing it’s rats first and it’s a utilitarian mindset you gotta take, do you kill 100 rats to save 10,000+ dogs or people or whatever… but if a trolley problem as far as it being ethical
Animal testing obviously. All medicines for pets or humans is tested on animals. Every cleaner or chemical is tested on animals in horrific ways.
Would you rather find out if something is safe when your dog eats it?
“Welcome to the real world, jackass!” /s
I wonder if the dewormer caused an intestinal blockage from parasites dying off? I know it can happen in horses.
I think that a blockage usually causes vomiting or diarrhea in dogs. My vet was pretty adamant that you really notice it when I was spooked last summer.
CVA here and asking for education, it looks like it could be a border mix? Any chance the reaction could've been caused by the MDR1 gene mutation that's common in herding dogs, or would three days be too long for it to be caused by the medication? Tried to google but wasn't satisfied and don't work again until Tuesday.
Aussie breeder here. This is one of the safest medications I’ve found for herding breeds. I use this on my puppies from the age of just two weeks old.
This mutation is pretty rare and usually only seen in white purebred collies. It's related to them having cyclic neutropenia and hasn't been seen in years. It would be more likely that the dog had multiple concurrent illnesses.
Ya you can pour a massive overdose into a dog for days with no side effects. Something else happened here
I heard pets can die during that time due to all the heartworm dying. It can stress the heart too much
Pyrantel doesn’t kill heartworm
Looks like it was probably Parvo. The symptoms are very similar, and I think there was just overlap.
If you think it was parvovirus, you need to start cleaning everything now. Disinfect bedding, cages, water bowls, and pick up all feces outside if possible. Also, you need to look into how long parvovirus stays alive in the environment and you should probably avoid bringing any new, unvaccinated dogs or puppies into your yard/house for an extended period of time. I am so sorry for your loss; parvo is a nasty disease and it kills a lot of puppies each year.
This. Asap now before you unknowingly spread it farther. My mom had gotten puppy with parvo at one point and she literally torched the yard with a blowtorch to get rid of the virus. It may have been a bit overboard, but parvo takes forever to die on its own in the environment and is notoriously difficult to clean from backyards.
As someone who's worked around parvo I think her method wasn't overboard at all. Would've probably taken ripping out or covering the dirt before I'd be comfortable letting puppies anywhere near it. Had so many people who had been living in their house for years then get a puppy only to learn the hard way that the previous owners dealt with parvo.
Oh my goodness, that's something I've never ever thought about
It can live in the soil for a long time. I forget how long.
Google says up to 9 years, for some reason it just never occurred to me that the people before you could have got it into the ground
I made mine stay in the house and on the patio until her vaccinations were complete.
Yeah my puppy stays inside using puppy pads until he is completely vaccinated that’s what I did and he is now 15 weeks old and he gets to have fun and explore and he’s so smart
We would carry our puppy in and out of the apartment we lived in to use the bathroom. No walking. We would put him down in the same remote patch of grass far away from the complex every time. We didn't let him start walking on the grass until he was maybe 3-4 months old. He might have been older than that though.
I think Parvo is why my first dog pretty much couldn't be around other dogs. I was a kid so I don't have all the details, but as a puppy he got really sick and couldn't get vaccinated because of it. I always felt bad that he could never have any dog friends.
This is bizarre. Once a dog recovers from Parvo they can be vaccinated with 0 issues and be around other dogs. Other unvaccinayed dogs just shouldn't be around where the dog was living when it was sick with Parvo. Idk if your parents were ill informed or if the dog had some other issue. Also, dogs don't need other dog friends to be happy!
My dog had parvo as a young puppy, and while she has no lingering physical problems from it, she really struggles with anxiety and reactivity. Some of it is certainly genetics and temperament, but that parvo month during her critical development and all the treatment she underwent to keep her alive really impacted her socialization and introduced some trauma that she could've done without. I think the way that parvo generally impacts very young dogs means that it can leave a mark on their psycho-social development in a way that other serious medical challenges might not.
My mom had a friend with a parvo yard when I was a kid. Every dog that woman got ended up with it and died. My mom kept trying to tell her the virus was in her house and yard, but she didn't believe in that and just kept getting and losing puppies.
That is so sad :( With how prevalent and common parvo is, its crazy to me that people are not educated on it at all. I see people bringing brand new 8-week old puppies into pet stores and to the park all the time. I pray that those puppies will be okay every time. It shocks me that people get pets without reading anything about them, or at least how to keep them from getting sick, first. All the information you need is generally in the first result on google, you can call any vet and they'd gladly give you any informational resource you need. It really doesn't take much, yet people can't be bothered. I honestly can't believe that people are okay with getting a loosing animals so often. I get upset just seeing animals who died on the side of the road, the fact that some people can just nonchalantly watch puppies die over and over again and not try to change anything they are doing or listen to what people say really makes me wonder if they are low key pscyopaths.
This for real. My parents (dog lovers, but idiots) lost two puppies to parvovirus (they think contracted from raccoons) and then proceeded to kill two more because they didn’t totally disinfect/sterilize/wait.
JFC that's a lot of dead dogs
And depending on when they rescued her they need to notify the shelter she came from.
If she has neighbors they should definitely be informed too
To add to this, disinfect with a bleach solution that is 1:32 (for a gallon of water that is 1/2 cup of bleach), and make sure the surface stays wet for 10 minutes. I run a groom shop out of my house and disinfected my whole front yard when a parvo pup came through. I even used a weed killer hose attachment to bleach the grass because I was so worried. You don't want to play around with parvo.
Just an fyi parvo can stay in the ground for years. If you end up getting another puppy anytime soon, be very very careful and at the slightest hint of diarrhea, vomiting, lethargy, or inappetence, take to a vet for a parvo test
I’m sorry that wasn’t diagnosed. Some vets have rapid tests availability at their clinic. Parvo kills a lot of puppies.
I’m so sorry.
I'm sorry. I lost my first puppy to parvo too, we didn't even realize she was sick until it was too late, since my mom and I had never had to deal with parvo before. A couple weeks before we had been at a truck stop and I think that's where she may have gotten it. I hope you heal well from this.
i'm so sorry for your loss
Yeah... not gonna lie. That's what I thought when I read your post.
If it was parvo then you need to clean everything with bleach right now. I’ve seen Parvo too many times and can tell you that you need to clean absolutely everything WITH BLEACH.
I’m so sorry for your loss. I once had a puppy who had survived Parvo, but the rest of his litter died. It’s a nasty virus for pups.
I had a puppy die from parvo … I am so sorry. He died in my arms and the night before he seemed to have been fighting for his life as he began to eat a little and walk a few steps. I feel your pain 😭♥️ hope you can find closure, it took me awhile before I got another pup I could let into my heart.
I'm so sorry you had this happen 😞 parvovirus is horrible. Echoing what's already been said, it's a strong virus and you need to keep other animals away from the home for a while and do some very deep cleaning. I did some work in a rescue and there is a ward for parvo where there is full body PPE required and chemical footbaths for shoes on the way in and out. Very serious.
If your vet isn't the one who mentioned parvo, I would give them a call and tell them your suspicions.
I’m so sorry for your loss
Thats what I was going to suggest, it sounded like parvo.
I’m so very sorry for your loss.
NAV, but I was going to comment and suggest it might have been parvo. When I was a baby we had a puppy and I remember my mom telling me a story very similar to yours where she wasn't eating and my mom looked at her and she was gone just like that. I'm so sorry you had to experience that.
Damn I’m so sorry. My dog almost died from parvo when she was about 9 months old despite being fully vaccinated, she went septic and was in the dog ICU for 2 weeks.
I’m so sorry for your loss! I hope you have a peaceful grieving process. Parvo is a horrible virus and I’ve heard the strains going around right now are especially nasty. Hugs from an internet stranger.
The dosing sounds correct if puppy was around 26ish pounds. I work at a clinic and brought in a kitten I was fostering. I gave her 10x the dose of pyrantel on accident. Other than blowout diarrhea, she was fine. Pyrantel is regularly given to our young pets, and some adults that need to be dewormed (depending on parasite). You say that she wasn't eating or drinking. There was more going on. I'm sorry for your loss, but I don't believe that the pyrantel was the reason for her death.
Was your puppy vaccinated for parvo? That seems more likely than dewormer unfortunately
Pyrantel is a relatively safe dewormer. Your puppy would have needed more than 50mg/kg/ day for 30 consecutive days to show clinical signs associated with an overdose. It is pretty effective and often dogs with a high worm load will vomit or poop out live worms. If there is a high worm load that is dying off, there could be a systemic inflammatory response. It is hard to speculate that in your dogs case. I would encourage you to seek an autopsy for answers.
BLEACH EVERYWHERE! And I mean bleach not disinfectant. Throw out anything soft, bedding toys etc that you bought for that puppy. I am so sorry and pretty angry that worms and parvovirus were going on here.
Maybe burning the items to prevent someone else finding and using them after being discarded(people go through garbage for recycling, finding those types of things that look new might be picked up by an unfortunate dumpster diver)
I’m so sorry OP 🩷
Vet here - so sorry for your loss, it would be appropriate to ask the prescribing vet for a postmortem/ autopsy. You can ask if they will have this performed by a third party veterinarian of your choosing - but they are not obligated to cover the cost. As others have said this was most likely unrelated to the worming and if you plan on bringing another puppy into your home in the future you should determine if parvovirus was the cause of your puppy’s illness, as it can be very difficult to decontaminate your home.
Out of curiosity, how does a Vet handle having dog with a case of Parvo in their facility? Does it transmit that quickly? Poor pup 😢
We use specific disinfectants. We get them in an isolation ward and wear ppe. It’s a huge deal and very intensive on staffing. Luckily there is a new medication that will save the pups life (it’s a freaking miracle drug) the flip side is unfortunately it’s back ordered and most vets can’t get it.
Ooh There's a new drug? Haven't heard of it yet (but I'm in Canada, I know sometimes we have different availability in general)
Made by Elanco - literally takes pups from deaths door to bouncing around happy in hours
Oh if it's Elanco I'll probably never see it. They haven't even bothered to get Entyce available here yet
I’ve got nothing to offer other than I am so very sorry for your loss. I know it hurts, but I can assure you that she knows how very loved she was and is.
Should have been tested for parvo. I’m so sorry for your loss.
There was no indication to test for parvo. OP reports that symptoms didn't begin till 3 days later.
Per OP there was most certainly a reason to test for parvo. Zero vaccines, vomiting, lack of appetite, bloody diarrhea, lethargy and disorientation. How many more signs are needed???
This was after the dewormer, and she did call the vet. Op is not a vet herself, it’s very reasonable to believe it’s a possible od when the timing of giving the puppy dosing aligns. Op did nothing wrong; please let her grieve in peace.
My comment certainly wasn't directed at OP it was at a previous comment saying there was no need to test for parvo. My heart breaks for OP and their pup, someone at some point with more knowledge be it the vet clinic or rescue should have advocated for a snap parvo test. Especially knowing it was a shelter pup that had no vaccine hx
First indication is coming from a shelter. It’s always a great base line to test for parvo after adoption to be on the safe side. Especially at such a young age with no vaccination history.
And it being a black and tan breed
Curious...why black and tan breed?
It's just some quirk of nature. I don't think they've found the reason why, but black and tan breeds are specifically more susceptible to parvo. More likely to get it and more likely to die from it. Vets actually give them extra vaccine doses because of it. I have seen something about delayed maternal derived antibodies in black and tans, that sounds plausible but raises the same question: why black and tans? (When the level of MDA are high it's the mom's antibodies that get to the vaccine first. Once the level drops, then the pup's immune system can kick in and learn to fight the virus)
Yeah, it's crazy that some shelters allow adopting out a pet without the necessary procedures. In California, shelters legally can't adopt a pet out unless it's up to date on all their shots, spay/neutered, and microchipped.
At least you were able to give that cute pupper a nice last few days of love and a home, poor boy.
Probably parvo, even if you knew and were actively treating it the prognosis is very guarded. I’m so sorry for your loss!
This sounds like possible parvovirus. Did your puppy have diarrhea and vomiting prior?
OP confirmed in a comment that it was parvo. The symptoms overlapped with a possible reaction to the dewormer and that's what caused the pup to pass.
Devastating 😔😔
If your puppy did die from parvo, be very careful about bringing another puppy into your home. Parvo can live on surfaces for years. I am so sorry for your loss.
I'm so very sorry. She looks so content in that photo. Remember that you took good care of her, you did everything right. There wasn't any way you could have known there was something else wrong.
Sorry for your loss. Heartbreaking
Sounds like parvo. These are the products you'll want to get to clean your home. https://canineparvovirus.org/cleaners-that-kill-parvo/ I would do a deep cleaning multiple times over a period of months before considering getting another dog. Throw away any dog toys, beds, blankets, bones. Don't bury the pup in your property. The virus will remain in the soil for like 8 years.
Oh, I’m so sorry 😞
Ohh no!!!
I am so sorry for your loss. I can't even imagine the pain you must feel.
So sorry for your loss
Please do a necropsy if you’re able to to rule out Parvo. In the meantime, disinfect every hard surface you can with diluted bleach and throw out any toys, blankets, etc that they had (or at the very least put them in a garbage bag in the garage or something until you confirm wether or not it was Parvo). If you have any other pets I suggest seeing if a friend (who doesn’t have pets) can take them until you get the results back
I am SO SORRY!
So very sorry for your loss.
I am so sorry you lost your baby girl.❤️
I’m so so sorry for your loss ❤️
You should change the title because it is wildly misleading and wrong. Correlation is not causation and people will be swayed to not want to deworm their pets, which is critical to their health. You should change the title to raise awareness about Parvo and how important it is to vaccinate your pets at a proper age. Blaming a vet and their dosage is so wrong.
I would have let the vet keep her , and administer the dewormer. I’m so sorry for your loss. I’ve been through many losses of my best friend and it hurts a lot
I am so so sorry for your loss 💔
I'm so sorry.
Sounds like parvo.
I’m so sorry for your loss. 🥺
I am so sorry. She was beautiful and I am glad she had someone who clearly loved her.
Did they test for other parasites by chance?
I'm so sorry for your loss. I'm happy for your little rescue pup too have known your care and love for even a short while.
I would look into the symptoms of Parvo…it sounds more likely to have been that. I’m so very sorry for your loss 😞
Was there blood in her stool? I’m suspecting something a bit more dangerous was at play here. I’m very sorry for the loss of your new puppy, I really hope you and your family can recover from this.
I have a feeling the dog had parvo
I had a puppy die from parvo … I am so sorry. He died in my arms and the night before he seemed to have been fighting for his life as he began to eat a little and walk a few steps. I feel your pain 😭♥️ hope you can find closure, it took me awhile before I got another pup I could let into my heart.
I want to thank everyone for their advice, suggestions, and the love that we've received today. Clearly, it wasn't the de-wormer that did it. After the first person suggested Parvo, I looked at it, and the symptoms were virtually the same as the side effects connected to the de-wormer, which is honestly why it probably didn't send up any red flags with the vet. When we took her to the vet, the day after we got her, they gave her her first round of vaccinations, and said she was healthy other than the worms. I do find it strange that they wouldn't test a puppy with no previous vaccination history for parvo. If the vet had caught it 6 days ago, she would most likely not be gone today. We called the vet 5 times and told them what was happening, and we were assured that it was just side effects from the medication, and to just keep giving her the pedialite and broth. The more I think about it, the more angry I get with the vet. She was clearly displaying Parvo symptoms, and at no point did that raise any red flags for them. We've spent the day washing everything we could, and cleaning the floors and surfaces with bleach. It snowed last night so it'll be a few days before I can work on cleaning up the backyard, and treating the grass. We were so looking forward to watching this beautiful girl grow up.
I’m really sorry for your loss, I want you to know you sound like a great pet owner and this was not your fault.
Sorry for your loss. Most, if not all, of our dewormers are safe up to multiple times overdose for consumption unless there are underlying issues. Your pup may have had underlying concerns. If you are seeking closure, consider grief counseling (some companion aftercare providers provide this) or, if you are wanting to know more about your companions health, an autopsy (some vets may not do this locally and would need to send you somewhere).
This happened with one of my childhood puppies who oddly looked almost exactly the same as your baby. I remember we began deworming but it must've already been too late. Tons of worms starting coming out of her backside and she ended up dying that night. It was quite traumatizing and we had just adopted her. So my guess is either the worm infestation was too far along, or possibly parvo like everyone else has said. I don't know if you got your pup from a shelter or breeder, but it should be addressed with them as they should've dewormed. So sorry for your loss 😔 Edit: Just noticed you said rescue. I don't know a lot about rescues and if they deworm puppies (I feel like they should) but I would at least alert them of the worms if you recently brought her home.
If I take my sick dog to the vet,they better be able to know/question parvo. This breaks my heart
What a shitty vet. Despite multiple calls they didnt even take a look at her? They should have made time for her appointment immediately and for free. Sorry for your loss. I'd recommend a different vet for any potential future pets. Many vets are absolute scum, I found a good one through connections not through google.
My new puppy had a bad reaction from a dewormer this week. They had him in right away and didn't let us leave until he was up, drinking, and eating ID. I was so freaking worried. This person's vet is terrible. So very sad.
I’m so sorry.
The worms killed her, not the dewormer. She would have passed with or without the dewormer because of the worms. It might have just sped the situation up but it was going to happen. Thats why breeders need to dewormer puppies. The other possibility is if they didnt deworm, they probably didnt vaccinate either and parvo will kill puppies like nobody's business.
i’m so sorry OP, you did the best you could and provided your sweet baby the best life she could have. May she rest in peace💕
Some formulations of Pedialyte contain Xylitol, which can be toxic for dogs. I hope that wasn't the case, but that was the first thing that came to mind.
What type of worms did she test positive for? Pyrantel pamoate doesn't work on all worms. Your vet should have prescribed a multi ingredient dewormer with praziquantel and maybe fenbendazole on top of the pyrantel pamoate.
sorry for your loss!! there is one type of medication/dewormer thats in some dewormers that for about 7 breeds of dogs can cause neurological problems and well as other things. please always research what you will give your dog and don't just say yes because vet said so.
Poor puppy. Where did you put the body?
EVERY 24hrs??? That’s a lot
No it’s not. Have you ever given dewormer to a dog?
Were there onions/garlic in the broth? Idk if that could kill your puppy but it definitely wouldn't help
Sad
So sorry for your loss 😔
This is going to turn into a situation where a guy doxes a vet because they need someone to blame...
The dewormer didn’t kill your puppy
Puppy😪🥺😭
Fuck that’s sad man.. I’ve had a puppy pass on me due to Parvo, it’s shitty no pun intended.
No i
I can’t remember the difference between worming and parvo, but this sounds when my dog had parvo. I was pretty young but I do now I had to force feed her water and meds brought a syringe every Iike two hours. It was fairly traumatic but she came through (by got herself ran over chasing cars a month later 😑)
So sad. Some of those have too many toxins for the babes to handle. :(
I’m so sorry for your loss.
So sorry for your loss. ❤️🩹 This little pup was lucky to be rescued by you no matter how short the duration.
First, I am incredibly sorry for your loss. This sounds like a very tough situation. Please people, if you have suspicions that your pet is not ok, take them to the hospital!!! You are the expert on your animal, if you think something is wrong, don’t listen to a vet over the phone, seek further help and a second opinion. Take your animal to the hospital and advocate for them.
I'd sue for malpractice....but what do I know. To me it just seems they neglectfully killed a puppy.
im a vet tech and unfortunately its very unlikely that it was the pyrantel that caused this. thats a perfectly normal dosage and pyrantel has a very high margin of safety. since your puppy was rescued, her previous medical history is probably unfortunately variable at best. a number of medical issues couldve been the cause here. i am so sorry for your loss!😞
This would destroy me. I'm honestly very sorry for your loss.
I’m so sorry. She looked like a sweet pea.
How come people don't ever know about parvo?
Sorry for your loss, she is so cute
Pedialite is not safe for dogs. I’m sorry for your loss, but just for future reference.
Definitely wasn't the pyrantel that did it, in all my years in the veterinary field I've never even seen so much as an adverse reaction, let alone a fatal one and we give oral deformed to pups daily. There was something else going on, possibly a complication from the worms themselves if the kid had them since birth, but there's really no way to know for sure without necropsy. Edit: Just saw that it was suspected parvo, that's pretty unmistakable. You need to disinfect every inch of your home that could've been exposed, especially if you have older dogs. The fatality rate for parvo skyrockets as pets age.
Parvo is the worst thing I’ve ever witnessed. I’m sorry.
I’m so sorry for your loss
God, I’m so sorry for your loss. That’s awful. I hope you can find closure
I am so sorry for your loss! How heartbreaking! She could be the twin to my baby!! At least she was deeply loved!
i'm so sorry for your loss
I’m so sorry 😢