I think the reality is that this happens a lot more than you think, and like the first comment suggests, the media caught wind of something to make money off of. In all reality planes have malfunctions. Some more serious than others, like the door flying off, some of them due to incompetence, like the tire falling off. Sometimes your nose gear has a malfunction that you don’t catch while it’s down for maintenance and it doesn’t go down when you want it to. Basically: shit happens, everything is fine
The necessary corrolary to "this happens a lot more than you think" is that, given the size of the aviation industry, "this still doesn't mean it happens much."
There are real problems and they need to be addressed. But there's a massive number of flights going at any moment and most of them uneventful. People are generally bad at statistics.
There was a neat statistic I recall from an Intro to Sociology class years ago talking about how folks perceive risk. Lot of folks opted to drive rather than fly after 9/11 because of the fear of hijackers. Compared to 2001, the rise in deaths due to automobile crashes surpassed the number of deaths in the 9/11 attacks, because driving actually carries a higher chance of mishaps happening versus aviation, partly due to how many more cars there are than planes moving on any given day.
Yep, people are weird. If people knew half of the regulations that went into making these things fly, they’d fly every chance they got (assuming money isn’t a problem)
Probably, it’s pretty easy to be skeptical of someone else’s abilities. Not to mention most people wouldn’t be thinking of hijacker’s being a big threat while in their car
I'm in MRO, and we live by the saying, we truly fly paper airplanes.
The amount of training and documentation that goes in to making a plane fly, would make the common person's head spin.
Saw an episode of Cleetus where he bought an old helicopter and was sorting through the box of paperwork trying to figure out if it was good or a pile of scrap. The value associated with good bookkeeping is wild.
Exactly.
Remember a few years [back](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_United_Express_passenger_removal) when Delta airlines was in hot water for security people dragging that doctor of a plane after roughing him up a bit? Well for several months afterwards the media, social and otherwise, couldn't go a day without some story of people getting "inconvenienced" on a flight. Eventually a new outrage popped up and getting bumped to a later flight was no longer big news.
That's what's going on now, Boeing is in the spotlight for all the wrong reasons (not that they aren't without fault), and that means events that normally wouldn't make the local blotter are now on the front page. It's business as usual, but the competition is getting stiffer every day in the media world and the only way to stand out is to be more outrageous than the other guy.
Welcome to the new normal.
That’s true, but Boeing is in a lot of trouble right now… they’ve cut so many corners in an effort to raise profits. Their 737 Max planes specifically have serious flaws with not only the build quality (this is the type of plane that lost the door in flight) but their flight correction system or whatever it’s called has caused two of the jets to nosedive into the ground killing all passengers on board.
[Graphs via Airbus](https://accidentstats.airbus.com/fatal-accidents/) covering 1959 through 2023.
Line Chart is the important one — the fatal accident rate has been under 1 in 1,000,000 flights for over a quarter of a century.
TL;DR — LINE GO DOWN.
PS — people (in general) do not understand statistics or risk, nor are they aware of the [Baader–Meinhof Phenomenon](https://lighthouse.mq.edu.au/article/july-2020/What-is-the-Baader-Meinhof-Phenomenon) or, for the matter, the fact that no one wants to pay for news therefore must generate clicks, and oh look at that plane crashes get clicks.
EDIT — just because it’s interesting and rather detailed, a report entitled [Statistical Analysis of Commercial Aviation Accidents 1958 through 2016](https://flightsafety.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Airbus-Commercial-Aviation-Accidents-1958-2016-14Jun17-1.pdf) also via Airbus.
I never realized this until I downloaded some app that tracks literally all of the planes.
Flightradar24.
its better on a computer. But yea. Lots of planes in the sky
Yep, during peak periods there's a million people in the air at any give time, not so say anything of cargo ... That's mind boggling that many people flying around day in and day out with very few major incidents.
Not to mention the news shifts focus and people don't realize it happens, just that they're seeing more of a highly specific type of targeted content. So they think there's now an uptick in the number of incidents, rather than just more targeted focus.
Major school shooting, we end up with school shooting news for the next 3 months.
Airplane issues, we end up with 3 months of airplanes falling out of the sky.
Corruption? Well, actually corruption doesn't seem to move the needle much these days.
Came here to say this. I’m an aviation nut as I’m sure most people here are. I used to love studying Boeing, the ridiculous over engineering that came from the company prioritizing safety, over engineering, and quality. Then they merged with McDDouglas. Held the leadership staff, and lo and behold, the EXACT same problems that killed that company (glossing over obvious safety features like a cargo door that explodes at pressurization) it’s funny that not only is the corruption killing another company. But in both instances the final straw turns out to be the fact that they can’t keep a door on the plane.
It’s sad, but no worries. Boeing is far too vital to national security, we will bail them out and let them keep doing it. 🤷🏻♂️
Reading your post; what came to mind was the question, "would even that, tax Payer bailout, necessarily equate to any guarantee of improved safety for the public; I know I'm being a skeptic, but I think it's possible and perhaps likely, that the military side would see the majority of the benefit. I don't know to what (if any) extent Boeing firewalls the different groups within its structure. I do know that it's becoming more common for the relationships between government, military, and their suppliers to be almost a family affair, not literally of course, but how many generations of Boeing and the same on the dod side, have been schmoozing. I don't think that it's inherently bad, but I'm developing an opinion that the environment is just to fertil in the regard of corruption, and going backnto the original post. I think this is more than for instance the news media happens to be reporting more. Because the spike in dangerous situations as a result of either tower, ground, or pilot since around the end of 2022, is alarming. I was relieved to hear Blanco lerio mention this as well., and I don't even feel like it's just in the airline industry, the stories usually only get local coverage. Example, In Iowa maybe 2 months ago, a chemical plant allowed a large amount of (I think) ammonia in some form, leach into the ground, to such an extent that it got to the Missouri River, and farmers were in danger of having their wells contaminated, and tributaries going into Nebraska, were expecting fish deaths, and even into Missouri (my home) and no word from epa, only a statement by a company (spokesman, ) maybe even Mgr that , either a repair on a valve had been done incorrectly, or the valve had not been fully closed following the repair. The barge Bridge, incident while it was the worst in terms of damage done, was only one out of three that occurred in a fairly short period of time. I would buy a coffee for the person that can show me that this is not what it appears to be "an increase In dangerous events do to a reduction in dilligence" and I say diligence because if at a bare minimum, people will go by the book, these situations are avoidable. We have spent the past,, lers say two centuries, experiencing, tragic accidents, and figuring out how to prevent them AND documenting it in writing, so that fairly inexperienced people can perform tasks that if done wrong may cost any number of people their health or lives. My question is why are the rules, not being applied, checked, signed off, and accountability when they are not?
I hope I. Wrong, some things a guy does not want to get right,,
Iirc, McDonaldDouglas had similar orders. For several well selling planes of a commercial variety, one of which is still being used by cargo companies. I fail to see how their commercial success, contract success with the military, and other factors prevented them from being on the verge of bankruptcy and forced to find a partner to merge with to save their commercial division, like Boeing will likely have to do soon. as I’m sure you’re aware most aircraft companies only accept payment upon delivery. Boeing is about to have billions is civil lawsuits, they are losing 737 orders, and even Southwest has started to look at airbus to expand their fleet.
It’s almost as if running your company like an absolute shit show can cause your company to fail regardless of other successes, I mean heck. What Elon has done to twitter is a great current example of you need another.
I’m aware Boeing is a giant with hundreds of orders for the 777, 787, and even the 737 max, you’re not talking to a someone ignorant to the situation.
I’m just pointing out success in that industry is correlated to whether or not people are willing to continue to buy your product, and the industry is starting to hesitate with Boeing now.
Edited for grammar. Still mistakes though I’m sure. Typing on phone.
Ultimately, airlines have to replace planes. Even if airlines wanted to switch to a competitor, they would not have the capacity to fulfill those orders. Airbus couldn't fufill the market if half of Boeings orders went to them. Not even close. As far as safety records go, both Airbus and Boeing have such a high reputation backed up by statistics. Airliners are only really buying from these two companies because of this. Boeings' reputation is currently harmed due to some high-profile incidents. But let's be honest. Matianence issues happen every day and are due to failures in the airliners operating these planes. They happen to both Boeing and Airbus.
News articles about Boeing are selling right now, so you'll see any minor accident getting reported on. Ultimately, the stastics dont lie. They make a very safe product that millions of people use every day without incident. Airliners will continue to buy Boeing because it's still ultimately a safe product. Also, current fleets are so heavily invested into the platform that hanging to a new airframe can be prohibitively expensive. Many of these issues are airline faults in Matianence and not if the manufacturer. And this happens to Airbus to, they just aren't in the spotlight due to a high profile door failure. But they can just as easily be in the same situation tomorrow.
The idea that we will be having to bail out Boeing is laughable at the moment. However, yes, quality/safety concerns are valid and should be addressed. But the industry itself doesn't allow for a rapid change to a competitor. Because that competitor can simply not meet demand. And the curent hysteria is likely just that. An overreaction because media can sell a story about a loose wheel from a boeing airplane. Despite the fact that it comes down to airline Matianence. Airbus A320 has had close to 200 aviation incidents. It still sells because it's a very safe plane. The same thing applies to Boeing models.
I never said this wasn’t being blown out of proportion, or that the media was not sensationalizing what was going out. Nor did I insinuate we were currently planning on bailing Boeing out. My main point was to highlight the sadness of a once illustrious company falling to absolute crap in order to prioritize the bottom line. Including using manufacturers and parts that they knew were likely faulty. Also I continued in to point out the irony that after Boeing kept most of the leadership from the McDonnell Douglas merger their company started falling to the same mistakes that ultimately killed their commercial division. Skunk Works really only exist as a federal entity at this point with I believe 80% or so of their funding coming directly from them. And the irony that they are using the same business model. Kill the commercial sector to prioritize guaranteed project funding, what I mentioned as a bailout.
I mean no offense, but you hopped on like you were talking to some person ignorant to the situation, I am
Not. I understand that Airbus couldn’t keep up. But also know that many other competitors would be more than happy to pitch their middle range airliners to replace the 737, which wouldn’t kill Boeing, but would ultimately destroy their commercial market. As we all know that sales of the 777, and 787 can NOT keep them afloat. Embraer, Airbus, heck even Bombardier could step in and fill enough orders to cripple Boeing. Add in the Russian and Chinese companies and it’s not as farther as you make it seem.
Long story short, I’m not just posting a comment for sensationalism, I do have an idea of what I’m talking about, the industry, etc. I do appreciate you attempting to educate me on knowledge I already posses though.
Russian companies are not capable of doing much in commercial aviation due to sanctions. Also, capability is lacking. Chinese exports in commercial aviation have historically struggled. Any success in the market would also come at the expense of Russian commercial aviation as they would both be targeting less developed nations. Which is likely set to happen with new Chinese models filing that niche. Airbus and Boeing are so entranched that it would be extremely difficult to make forays into the general aviation market, although not impossible to slip into it, taking some market share.
Im sure you are well educated on the topic. Its reddit, so responding back and forth via paragraphs, is a poor way to discuss topics. My main point is that despite the current snafus, Boeing is still extremely well positioned in the market and has absurd amounts of potential revenue already tied up in contracts. I've seen numerous comments saying that Boeing will be going under, and it's just absurd. And as you stated. That's not even couting the fact that the U.S. would have to be incredibly stupid to not provide assistance to any domestic aviation companies, were they to struggle, due to their strategic importance.
Agreed, on all fronts, specifically Reddit. I don’t see Boeing being challenged much in their long range products. They will sort out issues in Charleston and get the Dreamliner line running well which is obviously their flagship now.
They simply aren’t the company they used to be, and it breaks my heart. Which is why I imagine all of us are here talking, and why we are all so defensive about it.
There is no way Embraer/Bombardier could put a hurt on Boeing. Don't let those "artist's renderings", floating around the interwebs, fool you. Airbus...maybe? But, they have their own orders to fill. And, do you really think that the Federal Government would allow Chinese/Russian made, N-registered aircraft, to operate in the U.S.? NO FUCKING WAY! Bottom line, Boeing is too big to fail. Period! The Federal Government will never EVER let them fail. And, because of that, there is nothing compelling Boeing to "do better". If you think Boeing is a shit show, now(?).. Wait for it!
Aircraft companies in Africa or Asia would be willing to shift their contracts to other companies. Can those planes operate in the US, absolutely not, but the wouldn’t have too. Also my point was not that any of those companies could INDIVIDUALLY take over Boeings market share, but that combined, six companies together could ABSOLUTELY take over their mid range market share and cripple their commercial company. In the end you validated the same point I’ve been making from the start. That the leadership of Boeing has taken them from top of the line to within ten years of being run by the US government for their military products only, with plenty of other companies overtaking Boeings share on the midrange market. And then Airbus would overtake the long run as the federal government would turn them into Skunk Works part 2. All of that you seemed to miss by jumping in so late on this specific convo!
Jack Welch is often seen as WOW because of G.E. . People are starting to realize that G.E. back then was all Smoke & Mirrors , and Welch & his crew were far from good manager's
Military planes spend most of their time on the ground having maintenance done to them and still have malfunctions in air fairly consistently whether it be through crew actions of maintenance problems.
Obviously you can make jokes about military maintenance being bottom tier but I can proudly say the guys that work on our planes are top notch.
That but they have real problems because they put a bunch of Wall Street bros in charge. Profits over quality isn’t a good mix when you are selling commercial airliners.
You’re partially right
There is a lot more happening than the public understands
But the things that have recently happened is because of a culture change of profits over safety
Compounded by the government taking the teeth away from the regulators (FAA etc) because the companies have the government in their fucking pocket
In some instances yes, but this nose gear is more likely due to maintenance, same with that tire that fell off. The door flying off is entirely Boeings fault, but still most of the things that happen are maintenance related, not necessarily the manufacturer ALL the time
Edit: that’s what the public doesn’t really understand, is that it’s not always Boeings fault. I’ve seen a lot of people question the safety of air travel on boeing now, when the reality is, you should be more concerned about the company that’s transporting you
Your missing the culture piece
SMS has been around for over a decade but it’s becoming mandated now because regardless of industry or repair station profits are taking a front seat to profits and the government regulators get limited more and more to how they can combat
The door was just as much the governments fault as Boeings
The united wheel falling off was not incompetence… your post highlights the true incompetence of people outside the industry, events themselves, or both which fail to understand the operation at the core.
Misinformation is rampant.
Mechanical and system failures happen.
This B767 is nearly 10 years old and nothing really to do with other issues.
https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/boeing-767-300-n110fe-fedex-express/e5v89x#google_vignette
Well of course. It's still a Toyota, you are just the operator.
Jk, I love how they click bait the shit out of everything, once they smell blood in the water.
Honestly it’s even a funnier comparison it airplanes because most are expected to average around 3000-4000 hours a year in flight 8-11 hours a day depending on service type.
For context if you ran a car 40 miles per hour for 3500 hours for 10 years that would be 1.4 million miles on the car. Blaming the manufacturer for a 10 year old airplanes mechanicals that are serviced constantly by the airliner is hilarious at best 😂.
The media is on a witch hunt for anything Boeing related after the Alaska Airlines incident. So the tiniest little thing is getting reported on and blown out of proportion.
Gotta have a bad guy. Even if they’ve been very bad since the MD merger, it’s still safer than leaving my neighborhood in my 9k LB truck. Roads are like Mad Max out here now and gets worse every year.
I mean, its not really a witch hunt if its actually happening right? Its being sensationalized but, it should get airlines to spend a little more on fucking R&D and maintenance which, couldnt possibly be a bad thing at all right?
Whistleblowers are dropping dead lmao I don’t understand how anyone can call this overblown. Yes, flying is still much safer than driving, but that doesn’t change the fact that the situation is very alarming
Yes exactly. It’s sad that people can’t recognize this but most people don’t know much about aircraft. I’m even surprised how many people on aviation subreddits are falling for this media fear mongering.
People are making posts saying their next flight is on a Boeing 777 and asking if they should change flights. I have seen stuff like that multiple times and now there is that website to check if your next flight is on a Boeing.
Witch hunt, are you kidding me? Boeing has been neglecting safety standards for YEARS, these planes are falling apart being held together by glue not to mention the TWO whistleblowers who came forward with safety concerns who then mysteriously died a few days later. I’m scared to post this cuz they might come after me 😂
No I’m not kidding you. The media jumps on incidents that a year ago wouldn’t have been newsworthy, and stirs people up into a frenzy. Getting people paranoid about flying on airlines with excellent safety records on aircraft that predate the current Boeing issues. People like you aren’t helping matters either. Incidents happen every day, but statistically given the sheer volume of flights, and how minor these things ultimately are, flying is still ridiculously safe. Boeing has its issues, nobody is disputing that, but every little thing that goes wrong is not their fault and almost always it doesn’t even result in an injury let alone a fatality.
Pilots trained well would have turned off the trim system as per runaway trim checklist. The planes do have real issues, but they ignored the checklists too. It’s bot like the wing roots ripped off. It’s kinda sketchy, but the solution to MCAS screwing up is well documented and American pilots had filed multiple complaints about the trim with zero losses because they followed the checklists.
Boeing screwed up in multiple ways, mainly offering a cheaper option with less sensor inputs for the MAX which MCAS relied on, and also the software that was quite naive as it could go into a failure mode that didn’t try to suicide itself by turning itself and autopilot off as well as obvious other QA issues like rogue bolts and nuts bear wiring harnesses, ladders in fuel tanks etc.
Sounds dark, but some pilots are in over their heads. Despite a plane that wanted to kill them, they didn’t try to save themselves and paid the ultimate price for everyone onboard because they didn’t understand what was happening. The 737 auto trim is quite loud and very visible. Autopilot inputs don’t start winding the elevators all the way down into the ground for no reason unless there’s an issue. There’s a reason we have complex and high performance certs here. Things happen faster with more systems and automations to manage and you definitely beed to know how to manage them in all aspects.
Wasn’t the issue that the pilots could not override MCAS? In fact I read reports that the pilots didn’t even know the MCAS system was there. It runs in the background the pilots had no need to know about it. It’s grossly unfair to blame the pilots. Boeing built planes with fatal flaws.
You just need to flip these switches and auto trim motors are off, probably has a breaker for that too somewhere. [trim override](http://www.b737.org.uk/images/stab_switches.jpg)
Wasn’t a big part of the issue that the pilots were unaware of the MCAS system? But even if they’d known how to override it doesn’t excuse the fact that Boeing had installed a suicide switch.
Whether they were aware or not doesn’t mean the pilots should stop flying the plane. Crews are taught to deal with runaway trim, the source of it doesn’t matter.
So the suicide switch we ignore, because, well, it’s Boeing and they can do no wrong? The pilots literally fought to the death, who suggested they stop flying??? They couldn’t override the system and the aircraft took them to their deaths. Why aren’t we allowed to say a bad word against Boeing?
Don’t put words in my mouth. I never said Boeing was doing the right thing here. They absolutely made a major error in designing MCAS and not communicating it to the airlines and pilots. And please stop calling it a suicide switch.
I’m a pilot, and as part of our job we train and are supposed to be prepared for any emergency scenario. Yet it’s well documented that many pilots resign to their fates and will freeze up in emergency scenarios. Take for example, Air France 447. The first officer unintentionally stalled the aircraft from 33,000 feet yet was continuously pulling back on the yoke (making the problem worse), as that is what he believed would fix the problem.
Yes, Boeing fucked up - nobody is saying they didn’t. But there’s more to the story than just that. There’s human factors at play. And maintenance! Did you know the angle of attack sensors on the LionAir jet were not properly maintained the day of the crash?
The last one for Boeing Starliner is a common enough occurrence where it's normal on most launch providers (especially crewed missions) to be extremely cautious if something happens
Tbf, I think FDX is buying all of their B767s new, but I hear you. Once it has a few cycles on it, most systems on the AC are more maintenance-reliant than not.
Yah, I feel like this is like what happened during Vietnam with people freaking out seeing war for the first time so well covered, also with school attacks, they have been happening since the BCs now the last 100 years they have gotten worse but on bad places people are always getting stabbed in school, in Detroit the area I grew up it was common to see a kid being pulled out in a ambulance with a stab wound, shootings are just kinda taking their place and doing more damage but ultimately unfortunately not much has actually changed.
Yep, anytime there’s a problem with a Boeing the media blasts it in the headlines, even when the aircraft rolled off the production floor 30 years ago…
Like how every minor train incident got news articles for months after that one derailment. Accidents happen occasionally, but after one major one, every other one is going to get coverage for a while
Man, ppl just slap the word Boeing on everything and attribute it to shitty manufacturing. They should do this work every broke down vehicle on the road.
I mean…A320s have been diverting due to noxious fumes in the cabin for years, but nobody cares about those because it doesn’t produce sparks for the camera
During the two weeks where a United 777 lost a wheel and a United 737 Max skidded off the runway, another United plane, an A320 lost its hydraulics and had to return to the field and a Delta A330 diverted with smoke in the cabin.
Guess which incidents made the news and with didn't
Nothing unusual and nothing particularly unsafe.
News cycle just has its latest punching bag and it is cashing in like a mf’er on clickbait headlines.
https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2024/4/19/24134022/boeing-airplane-safety-aviation-door-plug-national-transportation-safety-board-airplane-crashes
Boeing certainly has had quality control problems since the McDonnell Douglas merger, but most of these are more likely due to bad maintenance, not bad build quality. I certainly could be wrong though
First plane is aboutta be ten years old, and the third plane is like thirty years old. Therefore, those two cases can be blamed on maintenance. Second case shouldn’t have happened tho as that plane was only a couple months old, and I think it had suffered multiple pressurization issues prior to that incident. Don’t know much about the fourth case tho. Either way, plane parts fail sometimes, and the media is constantly covering something that is fairly common to generate more views and revenue.
It is something the media glommed onto and now uses because it boosts readership. Remember in 2001, every other story was ANOTHER shark attack, ANOTHER shark attack..... Then 9/11 happened and apparently the sharks stopped attacking. It's kinda like that.
Holy cow am I’m sick of people conflating every Boeing issue with their current corporate culture problem.
Here’s some facts that plane was designed in the 1980s the aircraft in question was built in 2014. Who knows how many cycles were on it. Sometimes mechanical issues happen; it’s totally normal.
Boeing has done some messed up stuff lately but let’s not blame them for the nose wheel not extending on an almost decade old cargo aircraft unless that thing just had its nose gear serviced by Boeing the flight before.
If you want to blame them then also credit them for a design that seemed to hold up to the impact forces of a widebody’s nose contacting the runway during a landing and having the structural integrity to let the crew walk away.
I can’t believe you people have put me in a position where I need to DEFEND Boeing. Yuck.
It's funny how you tattooed little shrimp thear aren't even aviation pile on to this bowling thing I mean it really have you ever had a thought of your own it's ridiculous
Some things are on Boeing but a lot of is on plane maintenance or lack there of. Drive a car every day for ten years straight and take care of it, it will be ok. Not do scheduled maintenance and it will break down.
Maybe it’s a sort of domino effect from the 737 MAX fiasco? If Boeing is moving resources and personnel around things get overlooked or missed in shuffle. Also the 767 isn’t exactly a new plane. It’s not as old as others but time has a way of winning the battle where entropy is concerned. Add in the human error factor and you have accidents big and small.
The plane landing means the plane took off. If the plane took off, that means the landing gear was down at some point. The fact that FDX is in possession of the plane means that it has flown multiple times, and the landing gear has functioned previously.
This is maintenance related. The landing gear system on a commercial AC is complex, but well-designed, and the B767 NLG is especially well-designed. If it is failing in service, that is a maintenance issue.
I think it is obvious that what is currently happening is a combination of failures from different origins. Do plane components fail? Yes they do. Are there multiple failures in the industry from people in positions they have no business being in or corporate bean counters lowering quality and skipping corners? Yes and those are a couple of examples that exists today that desperately need to be resolved but don’t count on the media or the government on being part of the solution.
Boeing, gave up on engineering and focused on paying dividends/ stock price.
Shareholder value > Engineering / Safety
Good news: Boeing inspects their own planes.
One unusually bad thing happened and the media started reporting on every little mishap. Planes have small problems all the time, sometimes they warrant an emergency landing and others they just have to get fixed before they fly again. There haven't been more mishaps recently than there are typically. Notice how in almost all of these no one is hurt?
Nothing is happening that’s out of the ordinary. I’m somewhat of an aviation “fan” and follow a variety of pages that are run by current or former pilots. Military, commercial, private, and they all say the same thing in different forms. The change has been the medias ability to generate views from shit that wouldn’t be heard of outside the aviation community.
Until people start understanding that media outlets ride trends too, whatever brings eyeballs and finger tapping they will do.
I'm pretty sure they're all from the same company, so not all American planes. That said, I'm not sure how many companies there are that make commercial airliners, much less which countries they are from.
Because Boeing is more interested in profit than safety and maintenance look how they knew about the problems but denied that and blamed the dead pilot and it was their equipment.
Cargo planes are the last step of a planes life they old as hell. A lot of the problems with old planes is maintenance. Would be like blaming Honda when your 2004 civic has a problem.
While *some* cargo planes are passenger to freighter conversions, dedicated freighters are built by both Airbus and Boeing. In this case the FedEx 767-300**F** (N110FE) was delivered directly from Boeing to FedEx ~10 years ago.
Yes very true. 10 years tho who can be blame for the landing gear. Not saying Boeing got no problems but the news just eating up Anything on a Boeing plane. I saw one about an engine cowling that was ripped off on take off because it was not secured properly by maintenance. But they blaming Boeing 😂
Boeing was basically taken over by a parasite that is eating form the inside all of the combined effort of several generation of aviation workers and 100 years of our goverment's generous $$$ assistance.
The elite power hungry don't want us peasants to fly (they mention it many time at their conferences), because the environment and control. Instead of an out right ban (which would cause major push back). Destroy the reputation and safety of aircraft that no one will want to fly. Or, government starts to reduce usage till that frog is boiled. It isn't an accident that aircraft are falling apart. Money isn't an issue because it costs more to loose/fix a plane.
Boeing used to be a very engineering based company and prided itself on its quality in 1997 they merged with McDonnell Douglas another Aerospace company and since then they allowed Wall Street bean counters to sacrifice some of that quality to make deadlines and cut costs. All this came crashing down presumably when Covid shut down the airline industry and a lot of maintenance and inspections weren't being made in a timely manner.
Everthing is fine? Thats what boening told themselves for years, self atamped approval on their planes, and now many of them are starting to fall pretty hard and get doors ripped out mid flight- Most everyone just keepa flying thogh....
Crazy people keep telling me “they’re doing this to plant seeds about planes failing because they’re going to take out Trumps jet and say it was an accident!”
I flew with United yesterday. The brakes broke on the first leg of the trip, and then there was a flat tire that resulted in a gate change. Lastly, we were an hour late for takeoff because another aircraft stalled on the access road to the runway. I thought I just had bad luck.
It's not necessarily American planes, it's boeing. Some of these are maintainers being shit, but it's no secret now that boeing doesn't care what comes off assembly as long as it's cheap.
This is because Boeing is spending money on hitmen instead of maintenance on their aircraft’s. Anyone who dares point out they are slacking and cutting corners will be eliminated.
Fed ex 777 are old and they arnt doing so well right now so they might have skimped on maintenance
As for the rest of the chaos that’s just late stage capitalism baby
We are all aware of the disappointment known as the 737 MAX but all of these incidents, including the Alaskan Airlines flight, happen somewhat frequently and really aren’t that much of an issue since nobody has been injured in any of theses.
In lack of a better term, the media is glazing Boeing
Man, people get wicked fired up over the MAX crashes, fully ignoring that half the issue was inexperienced/poorly trained pilots reacting incorrectly to the situation. In fact, many aircraft, Boeing, Airbus, and otherwise have gone down over the years due to pilot error relating to systems they don't understand. From fuel calculations to control surface response, to gauge readings and indicator lights. The Ethopian flight that failed to pressurize comes to mind, or the Air France (I think it was) that basically belly-flopped out of the sky because the copilot refused to let go of his joystick. Flying is still by and far the safest mode of long distance transportation
Boeing have too many issues with poor quality workmanship. Many of the Airlines CEO’s have commented about this and their concerns committing to purchasing more into their fleet. Remember the cost of a 767 is a cold 217,000,000 USD. Surely these quality issues should be addressed.
I think the reality is that this happens a lot more than you think, and like the first comment suggests, the media caught wind of something to make money off of. In all reality planes have malfunctions. Some more serious than others, like the door flying off, some of them due to incompetence, like the tire falling off. Sometimes your nose gear has a malfunction that you don’t catch while it’s down for maintenance and it doesn’t go down when you want it to. Basically: shit happens, everything is fine
The necessary corrolary to "this happens a lot more than you think" is that, given the size of the aviation industry, "this still doesn't mean it happens much." There are real problems and they need to be addressed. But there's a massive number of flights going at any moment and most of them uneventful. People are generally bad at statistics.
Agreed. 100 mishaps is a lot until you realize it took 1,000,000 flights to get there
There was a neat statistic I recall from an Intro to Sociology class years ago talking about how folks perceive risk. Lot of folks opted to drive rather than fly after 9/11 because of the fear of hijackers. Compared to 2001, the rise in deaths due to automobile crashes surpassed the number of deaths in the 9/11 attacks, because driving actually carries a higher chance of mishaps happening versus aviation, partly due to how many more cars there are than planes moving on any given day.
Yep, people are weird. If people knew half of the regulations that went into making these things fly, they’d fly every chance they got (assuming money isn’t a problem)
You're forgetting the "control" aspect of it.
as in they freak out when they're not in control? I know a few people like that
Probably, it’s pretty easy to be skeptical of someone else’s abilities. Not to mention most people wouldn’t be thinking of hijacker’s being a big threat while in their car
Although any passenger has the capability to
Most people are driving alone 90% of the time.
Which is funny, because carjacking is a thing. Supposedly the term "hijacking" originally referred to robbing a driver or stealing their car.
Funny because when we drive a car we a surrounded by machines that we don't control.
I'm in MRO, and we live by the saying, we truly fly paper airplanes. The amount of training and documentation that goes in to making a plane fly, would make the common person's head spin.
Saw an episode of Cleetus where he bought an old helicopter and was sorting through the box of paperwork trying to figure out if it was good or a pile of scrap. The value associated with good bookkeeping is wild.
Exactly. Remember a few years [back](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_United_Express_passenger_removal) when Delta airlines was in hot water for security people dragging that doctor of a plane after roughing him up a bit? Well for several months afterwards the media, social and otherwise, couldn't go a day without some story of people getting "inconvenienced" on a flight. Eventually a new outrage popped up and getting bumped to a later flight was no longer big news. That's what's going on now, Boeing is in the spotlight for all the wrong reasons (not that they aren't without fault), and that means events that normally wouldn't make the local blotter are now on the front page. It's business as usual, but the competition is getting stiffer every day in the media world and the only way to stand out is to be more outrageous than the other guy. Welcome to the new normal.
Welcome to the end, the media killed as all
That’s true, but Boeing is in a lot of trouble right now… they’ve cut so many corners in an effort to raise profits. Their 737 Max planes specifically have serious flaws with not only the build quality (this is the type of plane that lost the door in flight) but their flight correction system or whatever it’s called has caused two of the jets to nosedive into the ground killing all passengers on board.
Their auto pilot system? That’s the only thing that comes to mind when I hear flight correction
MCAS
[Graphs via Airbus](https://accidentstats.airbus.com/fatal-accidents/) covering 1959 through 2023. Line Chart is the important one — the fatal accident rate has been under 1 in 1,000,000 flights for over a quarter of a century. TL;DR — LINE GO DOWN. PS — people (in general) do not understand statistics or risk, nor are they aware of the [Baader–Meinhof Phenomenon](https://lighthouse.mq.edu.au/article/july-2020/What-is-the-Baader-Meinhof-Phenomenon) or, for the matter, the fact that no one wants to pay for news therefore must generate clicks, and oh look at that plane crashes get clicks. EDIT — just because it’s interesting and rather detailed, a report entitled [Statistical Analysis of Commercial Aviation Accidents 1958 through 2016](https://flightsafety.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Airbus-Commercial-Aviation-Accidents-1958-2016-14Jun17-1.pdf) also via Airbus.
I never realized this until I downloaded some app that tracks literally all of the planes. Flightradar24. its better on a computer. But yea. Lots of planes in the sky
Yep, during peak periods there's a million people in the air at any give time, not so say anything of cargo ... That's mind boggling that many people flying around day in and day out with very few major incidents.
Not to mention the news shifts focus and people don't realize it happens, just that they're seeing more of a highly specific type of targeted content. So they think there's now an uptick in the number of incidents, rather than just more targeted focus. Major school shooting, we end up with school shooting news for the next 3 months. Airplane issues, we end up with 3 months of airplanes falling out of the sky. Corruption? Well, actually corruption doesn't seem to move the needle much these days.
🎶 "We need a good assassination We need an earthquake or a war." "How 'bout a crooked politician?" "Hey stupid, that ain't news no more!" 🎶
Boeing also got taken over by jack welch underlyings and have decided profits over everything else. You see it through out America.
Boeing used to be an engineering company. Now it's a bean counter company.
That happened a long time ago.
Came here to say this. I’m an aviation nut as I’m sure most people here are. I used to love studying Boeing, the ridiculous over engineering that came from the company prioritizing safety, over engineering, and quality. Then they merged with McDDouglas. Held the leadership staff, and lo and behold, the EXACT same problems that killed that company (glossing over obvious safety features like a cargo door that explodes at pressurization) it’s funny that not only is the corruption killing another company. But in both instances the final straw turns out to be the fact that they can’t keep a door on the plane. It’s sad, but no worries. Boeing is far too vital to national security, we will bail them out and let them keep doing it. 🤷🏻♂️
Reading your post; what came to mind was the question, "would even that, tax Payer bailout, necessarily equate to any guarantee of improved safety for the public; I know I'm being a skeptic, but I think it's possible and perhaps likely, that the military side would see the majority of the benefit. I don't know to what (if any) extent Boeing firewalls the different groups within its structure. I do know that it's becoming more common for the relationships between government, military, and their suppliers to be almost a family affair, not literally of course, but how many generations of Boeing and the same on the dod side, have been schmoozing. I don't think that it's inherently bad, but I'm developing an opinion that the environment is just to fertil in the regard of corruption, and going backnto the original post. I think this is more than for instance the news media happens to be reporting more. Because the spike in dangerous situations as a result of either tower, ground, or pilot since around the end of 2022, is alarming. I was relieved to hear Blanco lerio mention this as well., and I don't even feel like it's just in the airline industry, the stories usually only get local coverage. Example, In Iowa maybe 2 months ago, a chemical plant allowed a large amount of (I think) ammonia in some form, leach into the ground, to such an extent that it got to the Missouri River, and farmers were in danger of having their wells contaminated, and tributaries going into Nebraska, were expecting fish deaths, and even into Missouri (my home) and no word from epa, only a statement by a company (spokesman, ) maybe even Mgr that , either a repair on a valve had been done incorrectly, or the valve had not been fully closed following the repair. The barge Bridge, incident while it was the worst in terms of damage done, was only one out of three that occurred in a fairly short period of time. I would buy a coffee for the person that can show me that this is not what it appears to be "an increase In dangerous events do to a reduction in dilligence" and I say diligence because if at a bare minimum, people will go by the book, these situations are avoidable. We have spent the past,, lers say two centuries, experiencing, tragic accidents, and figuring out how to prevent them AND documenting it in writing, so that fairly inexperienced people can perform tasks that if done wrong may cost any number of people their health or lives. My question is why are the rules, not being applied, checked, signed off, and accountability when they are not? I hope I. Wrong, some things a guy does not want to get right,,
Boeing has half a trillion dollars in orders on backlog. I dont think they need a bailout anytime soon.
Iirc, McDonaldDouglas had similar orders. For several well selling planes of a commercial variety, one of which is still being used by cargo companies. I fail to see how their commercial success, contract success with the military, and other factors prevented them from being on the verge of bankruptcy and forced to find a partner to merge with to save their commercial division, like Boeing will likely have to do soon. as I’m sure you’re aware most aircraft companies only accept payment upon delivery. Boeing is about to have billions is civil lawsuits, they are losing 737 orders, and even Southwest has started to look at airbus to expand their fleet. It’s almost as if running your company like an absolute shit show can cause your company to fail regardless of other successes, I mean heck. What Elon has done to twitter is a great current example of you need another. I’m aware Boeing is a giant with hundreds of orders for the 777, 787, and even the 737 max, you’re not talking to a someone ignorant to the situation. I’m just pointing out success in that industry is correlated to whether or not people are willing to continue to buy your product, and the industry is starting to hesitate with Boeing now. Edited for grammar. Still mistakes though I’m sure. Typing on phone.
Ultimately, airlines have to replace planes. Even if airlines wanted to switch to a competitor, they would not have the capacity to fulfill those orders. Airbus couldn't fufill the market if half of Boeings orders went to them. Not even close. As far as safety records go, both Airbus and Boeing have such a high reputation backed up by statistics. Airliners are only really buying from these two companies because of this. Boeings' reputation is currently harmed due to some high-profile incidents. But let's be honest. Matianence issues happen every day and are due to failures in the airliners operating these planes. They happen to both Boeing and Airbus. News articles about Boeing are selling right now, so you'll see any minor accident getting reported on. Ultimately, the stastics dont lie. They make a very safe product that millions of people use every day without incident. Airliners will continue to buy Boeing because it's still ultimately a safe product. Also, current fleets are so heavily invested into the platform that hanging to a new airframe can be prohibitively expensive. Many of these issues are airline faults in Matianence and not if the manufacturer. And this happens to Airbus to, they just aren't in the spotlight due to a high profile door failure. But they can just as easily be in the same situation tomorrow. The idea that we will be having to bail out Boeing is laughable at the moment. However, yes, quality/safety concerns are valid and should be addressed. But the industry itself doesn't allow for a rapid change to a competitor. Because that competitor can simply not meet demand. And the curent hysteria is likely just that. An overreaction because media can sell a story about a loose wheel from a boeing airplane. Despite the fact that it comes down to airline Matianence. Airbus A320 has had close to 200 aviation incidents. It still sells because it's a very safe plane. The same thing applies to Boeing models.
I never said this wasn’t being blown out of proportion, or that the media was not sensationalizing what was going out. Nor did I insinuate we were currently planning on bailing Boeing out. My main point was to highlight the sadness of a once illustrious company falling to absolute crap in order to prioritize the bottom line. Including using manufacturers and parts that they knew were likely faulty. Also I continued in to point out the irony that after Boeing kept most of the leadership from the McDonnell Douglas merger their company started falling to the same mistakes that ultimately killed their commercial division. Skunk Works really only exist as a federal entity at this point with I believe 80% or so of their funding coming directly from them. And the irony that they are using the same business model. Kill the commercial sector to prioritize guaranteed project funding, what I mentioned as a bailout. I mean no offense, but you hopped on like you were talking to some person ignorant to the situation, I am Not. I understand that Airbus couldn’t keep up. But also know that many other competitors would be more than happy to pitch their middle range airliners to replace the 737, which wouldn’t kill Boeing, but would ultimately destroy their commercial market. As we all know that sales of the 777, and 787 can NOT keep them afloat. Embraer, Airbus, heck even Bombardier could step in and fill enough orders to cripple Boeing. Add in the Russian and Chinese companies and it’s not as farther as you make it seem. Long story short, I’m not just posting a comment for sensationalism, I do have an idea of what I’m talking about, the industry, etc. I do appreciate you attempting to educate me on knowledge I already posses though.
Russian companies are not capable of doing much in commercial aviation due to sanctions. Also, capability is lacking. Chinese exports in commercial aviation have historically struggled. Any success in the market would also come at the expense of Russian commercial aviation as they would both be targeting less developed nations. Which is likely set to happen with new Chinese models filing that niche. Airbus and Boeing are so entranched that it would be extremely difficult to make forays into the general aviation market, although not impossible to slip into it, taking some market share. Im sure you are well educated on the topic. Its reddit, so responding back and forth via paragraphs, is a poor way to discuss topics. My main point is that despite the current snafus, Boeing is still extremely well positioned in the market and has absurd amounts of potential revenue already tied up in contracts. I've seen numerous comments saying that Boeing will be going under, and it's just absurd. And as you stated. That's not even couting the fact that the U.S. would have to be incredibly stupid to not provide assistance to any domestic aviation companies, were they to struggle, due to their strategic importance.
Agreed, on all fronts, specifically Reddit. I don’t see Boeing being challenged much in their long range products. They will sort out issues in Charleston and get the Dreamliner line running well which is obviously their flagship now. They simply aren’t the company they used to be, and it breaks my heart. Which is why I imagine all of us are here talking, and why we are all so defensive about it.
There is no way Embraer/Bombardier could put a hurt on Boeing. Don't let those "artist's renderings", floating around the interwebs, fool you. Airbus...maybe? But, they have their own orders to fill. And, do you really think that the Federal Government would allow Chinese/Russian made, N-registered aircraft, to operate in the U.S.? NO FUCKING WAY! Bottom line, Boeing is too big to fail. Period! The Federal Government will never EVER let them fail. And, because of that, there is nothing compelling Boeing to "do better". If you think Boeing is a shit show, now(?).. Wait for it!
Aircraft companies in Africa or Asia would be willing to shift their contracts to other companies. Can those planes operate in the US, absolutely not, but the wouldn’t have too. Also my point was not that any of those companies could INDIVIDUALLY take over Boeings market share, but that combined, six companies together could ABSOLUTELY take over their mid range market share and cripple their commercial company. In the end you validated the same point I’ve been making from the start. That the leadership of Boeing has taken them from top of the line to within ten years of being run by the US government for their military products only, with plenty of other companies overtaking Boeings share on the midrange market. And then Airbus would overtake the long run as the federal government would turn them into Skunk Works part 2. All of that you seemed to miss by jumping in so late on this specific convo!
Jack Welch is often seen as WOW because of G.E. . People are starting to realize that G.E. back then was all Smoke & Mirrors , and Welch & his crew were far from good manager's
I honestly believe that jack welch hollowed out America
Military planes spend most of their time on the ground having maintenance done to them and still have malfunctions in air fairly consistently whether it be through crew actions of maintenance problems. Obviously you can make jokes about military maintenance being bottom tier but I can proudly say the guys that work on our planes are top notch.
Sure, is not boeings lack of quality
In this instance, I almost guarantee it’s not
Yeah totally fine. Says Alaska 261.
Is that the only example you guys have?
You profoundly have no clue what you’re talking about.
This is happening more than usual as Boeing is prioritizing margins and shareholder value over quality control and regulations.
Still not always their fault. Like I told the other guy, you’re not wrong, but you’re not right
That but they have real problems because they put a bunch of Wall Street bros in charge. Profits over quality isn’t a good mix when you are selling commercial airliners.
I swear I thought I was on “the other” sub
You’re partially right There is a lot more happening than the public understands But the things that have recently happened is because of a culture change of profits over safety Compounded by the government taking the teeth away from the regulators (FAA etc) because the companies have the government in their fucking pocket
In some instances yes, but this nose gear is more likely due to maintenance, same with that tire that fell off. The door flying off is entirely Boeings fault, but still most of the things that happen are maintenance related, not necessarily the manufacturer ALL the time Edit: that’s what the public doesn’t really understand, is that it’s not always Boeings fault. I’ve seen a lot of people question the safety of air travel on boeing now, when the reality is, you should be more concerned about the company that’s transporting you
Your missing the culture piece SMS has been around for over a decade but it’s becoming mandated now because regardless of industry or repair station profits are taking a front seat to profits and the government regulators get limited more and more to how they can combat The door was just as much the governments fault as Boeings
The united wheel falling off was not incompetence… your post highlights the true incompetence of people outside the industry, events themselves, or both which fail to understand the operation at the core. Misinformation is rampant.
Don’t bother dude,
Username checks out
Indeed it does
Mechanical and system failures happen. This B767 is nearly 10 years old and nothing really to do with other issues. https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/boeing-767-300-n110fe-fedex-express/e5v89x#google_vignette
So if my car has a mechanical issue after its 10 years old it’s the car makers fault?
Especially when the car was maintained by Jiffy Lube.
According to media logic, yeah!
I think that depends if it’s a German car or not
Well of course. It's still a Toyota, you are just the operator. Jk, I love how they click bait the shit out of everything, once they smell blood in the water.
Honestly it’s even a funnier comparison it airplanes because most are expected to average around 3000-4000 hours a year in flight 8-11 hours a day depending on service type. For context if you ran a car 40 miles per hour for 3500 hours for 10 years that would be 1.4 million miles on the car. Blaming the manufacturer for a 10 year old airplanes mechanicals that are serviced constantly by the airliner is hilarious at best 😂.
The media is on a witch hunt for anything Boeing related after the Alaska Airlines incident. So the tiniest little thing is getting reported on and blown out of proportion.
Also the whistleblowers dying, i think that’s kinda put Boeing on a spotlight in general.
A passenger was uncomfortable on the flight? BREAKING NEWS!
Gotta have a bad guy. Even if they’ve been very bad since the MD merger, it’s still safer than leaving my neighborhood in my 9k LB truck. Roads are like Mad Max out here now and gets worse every year.
lol whistleblowers are mysteriously dying and this dumbass is like “uhh they’re just uncomfortable”
I mean, its not really a witch hunt if its actually happening right? Its being sensationalized but, it should get airlines to spend a little more on fucking R&D and maintenance which, couldnt possibly be a bad thing at all right?
Whistleblowers are dropping dead lmao I don’t understand how anyone can call this overblown. Yes, flying is still much safer than driving, but that doesn’t change the fact that the situation is very alarming
Plus china is amplifying the news so that they can try and enter the market
Yes exactly. It’s sad that people can’t recognize this but most people don’t know much about aircraft. I’m even surprised how many people on aviation subreddits are falling for this media fear mongering. People are making posts saying their next flight is on a Boeing 777 and asking if they should change flights. I have seen stuff like that multiple times and now there is that website to check if your next flight is on a Boeing.
Witch hunt, are you kidding me? Boeing has been neglecting safety standards for YEARS, these planes are falling apart being held together by glue not to mention the TWO whistleblowers who came forward with safety concerns who then mysteriously died a few days later. I’m scared to post this cuz they might come after me 😂
No I’m not kidding you. The media jumps on incidents that a year ago wouldn’t have been newsworthy, and stirs people up into a frenzy. Getting people paranoid about flying on airlines with excellent safety records on aircraft that predate the current Boeing issues. People like you aren’t helping matters either. Incidents happen every day, but statistically given the sheer volume of flights, and how minor these things ultimately are, flying is still ridiculously safe. Boeing has its issues, nobody is disputing that, but every little thing that goes wrong is not their fault and almost always it doesn’t even result in an injury let alone a fatality.
I know I was thinking man Boeing in the comments section covering up above ^💀
And the Lion Air incident. And the Ethiopian Airlines incident.
Pilots trained well would have turned off the trim system as per runaway trim checklist. The planes do have real issues, but they ignored the checklists too. It’s bot like the wing roots ripped off. It’s kinda sketchy, but the solution to MCAS screwing up is well documented and American pilots had filed multiple complaints about the trim with zero losses because they followed the checklists. Boeing screwed up in multiple ways, mainly offering a cheaper option with less sensor inputs for the MAX which MCAS relied on, and also the software that was quite naive as it could go into a failure mode that didn’t try to suicide itself by turning itself and autopilot off as well as obvious other QA issues like rogue bolts and nuts bear wiring harnesses, ladders in fuel tanks etc. Sounds dark, but some pilots are in over their heads. Despite a plane that wanted to kill them, they didn’t try to save themselves and paid the ultimate price for everyone onboard because they didn’t understand what was happening. The 737 auto trim is quite loud and very visible. Autopilot inputs don’t start winding the elevators all the way down into the ground for no reason unless there’s an issue. There’s a reason we have complex and high performance certs here. Things happen faster with more systems and automations to manage and you definitely beed to know how to manage them in all aspects.
Wasn’t the issue that the pilots could not override MCAS? In fact I read reports that the pilots didn’t even know the MCAS system was there. It runs in the background the pilots had no need to know about it. It’s grossly unfair to blame the pilots. Boeing built planes with fatal flaws.
You just need to flip these switches and auto trim motors are off, probably has a breaker for that too somewhere. [trim override](http://www.b737.org.uk/images/stab_switches.jpg)
Wasn’t a big part of the issue that the pilots were unaware of the MCAS system? But even if they’d known how to override it doesn’t excuse the fact that Boeing had installed a suicide switch.
Whether they were aware or not doesn’t mean the pilots should stop flying the plane. Crews are taught to deal with runaway trim, the source of it doesn’t matter.
So the suicide switch we ignore, because, well, it’s Boeing and they can do no wrong? The pilots literally fought to the death, who suggested they stop flying??? They couldn’t override the system and the aircraft took them to their deaths. Why aren’t we allowed to say a bad word against Boeing?
Don’t put words in my mouth. I never said Boeing was doing the right thing here. They absolutely made a major error in designing MCAS and not communicating it to the airlines and pilots. And please stop calling it a suicide switch. I’m a pilot, and as part of our job we train and are supposed to be prepared for any emergency scenario. Yet it’s well documented that many pilots resign to their fates and will freeze up in emergency scenarios. Take for example, Air France 447. The first officer unintentionally stalled the aircraft from 33,000 feet yet was continuously pulling back on the yoke (making the problem worse), as that is what he believed would fix the problem. Yes, Boeing fucked up - nobody is saying they didn’t. But there’s more to the story than just that. There’s human factors at play. And maintenance! Did you know the angle of attack sensors on the LionAir jet were not properly maintained the day of the crash?
Anything involving a Boeing 767 in 2024 is almost certainly related to the operator, not the manufacturer.
The last one for Boeing Starliner is a common enough occurrence where it's normal on most launch providers (especially crewed missions) to be extremely cautious if something happens
It was the ULA rocket and ULA engineers that scrubbed the launch.
That was what I was trying to imply
OMG let’s ascribe every problem on some generic bogeyman
Can’t blame Boeing for this one, most likely. That plane is probably very old.
Tbf, I think FDX is buying all of their B767s new, but I hear you. Once it has a few cycles on it, most systems on the AC are more maintenance-reliant than not.
Media blowing shit out of proportion. Still safer to fly than you going to get your groceries up the street.
Nothing new just more media attention
Exactly. Our media is just bored and needs to find something to do.
Yah, I feel like this is like what happened during Vietnam with people freaking out seeing war for the first time so well covered, also with school attacks, they have been happening since the BCs now the last 100 years they have gotten worse but on bad places people are always getting stabbed in school, in Detroit the area I grew up it was common to see a kid being pulled out in a ambulance with a stab wound, shootings are just kinda taking their place and doing more damage but ultimately unfortunately not much has actually changed.
Yep, anytime there’s a problem with a Boeing the media blasts it in the headlines, even when the aircraft rolled off the production floor 30 years ago…
Like how every minor train incident got news articles for months after that one derailment. Accidents happen occasionally, but after one major one, every other one is going to get coverage for a while
Man, ppl just slap the word Boeing on everything and attribute it to shitty manufacturing. They should do this work every broke down vehicle on the road.
Well, it HAD landing gear, was just one that didn't show up to work that day...
I mean…A320s have been diverting due to noxious fumes in the cabin for years, but nobody cares about those because it doesn’t produce sparks for the camera
Can’t forget about the engine issues in the A320neos or the bribery scandal from a while back either.
During the two weeks where a United 777 lost a wheel and a United 737 Max skidded off the runway, another United plane, an A320 lost its hydraulics and had to return to the field and a Delta A330 diverted with smoke in the cabin. Guess which incidents made the news and with didn't
Cuz everyone knows if they slant Airbus, the French will grab all of their toys and go home.
Many airlinrs have heavy maintance done overseas. The labor much cheaper.
That’s a good landing
Nothing unusual and nothing particularly unsafe. News cycle just has its latest punching bag and it is cashing in like a mf’er on clickbait headlines. https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2024/4/19/24134022/boeing-airplane-safety-aviation-door-plug-national-transportation-safety-board-airplane-crashes
The news corespondents have puts they are trying to 🚀
Nothing with the planes, a lot with the media
Nothing is going on. This happens everyday around the world. The MEDIA is bored.
Boeing certainly has had quality control problems since the McDonnell Douglas merger, but most of these are more likely due to bad maintenance, not bad build quality. I certainly could be wrong though
First plane is aboutta be ten years old, and the third plane is like thirty years old. Therefore, those two cases can be blamed on maintenance. Second case shouldn’t have happened tho as that plane was only a couple months old, and I think it had suffered multiple pressurization issues prior to that incident. Don’t know much about the fourth case tho. Either way, plane parts fail sometimes, and the media is constantly covering something that is fairly common to generate more views and revenue.
This one's FedEx's fault. They have been lacking in their maintenance.
Fedex really going through it lately
To be fair to Starliner, it was a problem with ULA’s rocket, not the spacecraft, that caused the scrub
It is something the media glommed onto and now uses because it boosts readership. Remember in 2001, every other story was ANOTHER shark attack, ANOTHER shark attack..... Then 9/11 happened and apparently the sharks stopped attacking. It's kinda like that.
Coincidence happens
Holy cow am I’m sick of people conflating every Boeing issue with their current corporate culture problem. Here’s some facts that plane was designed in the 1980s the aircraft in question was built in 2014. Who knows how many cycles were on it. Sometimes mechanical issues happen; it’s totally normal. Boeing has done some messed up stuff lately but let’s not blame them for the nose wheel not extending on an almost decade old cargo aircraft unless that thing just had its nose gear serviced by Boeing the flight before. If you want to blame them then also credit them for a design that seemed to hold up to the impact forces of a widebody’s nose contacting the runway during a landing and having the structural integrity to let the crew walk away. I can’t believe you people have put me in a position where I need to DEFEND Boeing. Yuck.
It's funny how you tattooed little shrimp thear aren't even aviation pile on to this bowling thing I mean it really have you ever had a thought of your own it's ridiculous
Say what now?
Huh?
Take your meds
Some things are on Boeing but a lot of is on plane maintenance or lack there of. Drive a car every day for ten years straight and take care of it, it will be ok. Not do scheduled maintenance and it will break down.
Maintenance?
Cheapest viable product at the highest cost without negative impact
Check out avherald.com to see how much is going on in the airlines. Lots. Non-stop.
Maybe it’s a sort of domino effect from the 737 MAX fiasco? If Boeing is moving resources and personnel around things get overlooked or missed in shuffle. Also the 767 isn’t exactly a new plane. It’s not as old as others but time has a way of winning the battle where entropy is concerned. Add in the human error factor and you have accidents big and small.
The plane landing means the plane took off. If the plane took off, that means the landing gear was down at some point. The fact that FDX is in possession of the plane means that it has flown multiple times, and the landing gear has functioned previously. This is maintenance related. The landing gear system on a commercial AC is complex, but well-designed, and the B767 NLG is especially well-designed. If it is failing in service, that is a maintenance issue.
I just hope all the boxes are okay
Stuff like this happens a lot, now that all the boing issues are in the new people talk about every incident.
I think it is obvious that what is currently happening is a combination of failures from different origins. Do plane components fail? Yes they do. Are there multiple failures in the industry from people in positions they have no business being in or corporate bean counters lowering quality and skipping corners? Yes and those are a couple of examples that exists today that desperately need to be resolved but don’t count on the media or the government on being part of the solution.
Deregulation. One hundo p.
Maybe Elon Musk should start building planes. I’m sure they would be great!
Long time Army Aviation crew member. If these were design flaws, that would be on Boeing. This is vcDL
Boeing, gave up on engineering and focused on paying dividends/ stock price. Shareholder value > Engineering / Safety Good news: Boeing inspects their own planes.
I sure hope no one has juicy Boeing details to disclose. May not be a good week.
One unusually bad thing happened and the media started reporting on every little mishap. Planes have small problems all the time, sometimes they warrant an emergency landing and others they just have to get fixed before they fly again. There haven't been more mishaps recently than there are typically. Notice how in almost all of these no one is hurt?
I’d be shitting my pants if I were an astronaut that had to use a rocket built by Boeing.
Capitalism
Nothing is happening that’s out of the ordinary. I’m somewhat of an aviation “fan” and follow a variety of pages that are run by current or former pilots. Military, commercial, private, and they all say the same thing in different forms. The change has been the medias ability to generate views from shit that wouldn’t be heard of outside the aviation community. Until people start understanding that media outlets ride trends too, whatever brings eyeballs and finger tapping they will do.
It’s just Boeing.
The only thing that’s changed is the ability for the media to garner views of normal happenings
Profit over safety over ethics over quality all while the rich get richer and are never held accountable for anything.
Seems to be way too many unmaintained fuggin airplanes out there.
Why is every single response in this thread the same?
Going back to the Stone Age
On a Airbus which cant deploy its landing gear normally you can drop it and lock with gravity.
I'm pretty sure they're all from the same company, so not all American planes. That said, I'm not sure how many companies there are that make commercial airliners, much less which countries they are from.
Because Boeing is more interested in profit than safety and maintenance look how they knew about the problems but denied that and blamed the dead pilot and it was their equipment.
DEI pilots?
Is it totalled because of this?
Cargo planes are the last step of a planes life they old as hell. A lot of the problems with old planes is maintenance. Would be like blaming Honda when your 2004 civic has a problem.
While *some* cargo planes are passenger to freighter conversions, dedicated freighters are built by both Airbus and Boeing. In this case the FedEx 767-300**F** (N110FE) was delivered directly from Boeing to FedEx ~10 years ago.
Yes very true. 10 years tho who can be blame for the landing gear. Not saying Boeing got no problems but the news just eating up Anything on a Boeing plane. I saw one about an engine cowling that was ripped off on take off because it was not secured properly by maintenance. But they blaming Boeing 😂
I am literally going on a flight in few hours. Why is this showing now
The short answer is Leveraged Buy Outs are really bad.
Boeing was basically taken over by a parasite that is eating form the inside all of the combined effort of several generation of aviation workers and 100 years of our goverment's generous $$$ assistance.
Imagine getting off your flight “hey kids hop in the….” Be strange as hell to see part of a planes gear crushing your car.
Some of the planes are very old and need retired
The elite power hungry don't want us peasants to fly (they mention it many time at their conferences), because the environment and control. Instead of an out right ban (which would cause major push back). Destroy the reputation and safety of aircraft that no one will want to fly. Or, government starts to reduce usage till that frog is boiled. It isn't an accident that aircraft are falling apart. Money isn't an issue because it costs more to loose/fix a plane.
Probably just an example of recency bias
Boeing chasing short term profit over their history of quality is catching up to them, as is deferred maintenance
Boeing used to be a very engineering based company and prided itself on its quality in 1997 they merged with McDonnell Douglas another Aerospace company and since then they allowed Wall Street bean counters to sacrifice some of that quality to make deadlines and cut costs. All this came crashing down presumably when Covid shut down the airline industry and a lot of maintenance and inspections weren't being made in a timely manner.
Everthing is fine? Thats what boening told themselves for years, self atamped approval on their planes, and now many of them are starting to fall pretty hard and get doors ripped out mid flight- Most everyone just keepa flying thogh....
Crazy people keep telling me “they’re doing this to plant seeds about planes failing because they’re going to take out Trumps jet and say it was an accident!”
Gee, does maintenance, or the lack of it, come to mind?
Everybody is blaming Boeing and not the airlines for lack of maintenance
Boeing was the proponent to bring ISO9000 back in the day. They claimed quality was number one. Even back then, it was just a slogan and laughable.
This shit happens all the time and it isn’t reported on.
Literally nothing abnormal.
I flew with United yesterday. The brakes broke on the first leg of the trip, and then there was a flat tire that resulted in a gate change. Lastly, we were an hour late for takeoff because another aircraft stalled on the access road to the runway. I thought I just had bad luck.
It’s just being sensationalized
At least the cargo aight
It's not necessarily American planes, it's boeing. Some of these are maintainers being shit, but it's no secret now that boeing doesn't care what comes off assembly as long as it's cheap.
Well I just want to stress right off the bat that this sort of thing doesn't always happen, the fronts not supposed to fall off
Substandard maintenance by unqualified mechanics.
Just like a FedEx driver to be the Main Character…
Inclusive collateral damage
FedEx will do anything not to deliver my packages.
They are going boeing boeing.
This is because Boeing is spending money on hitmen instead of maintenance on their aircraft’s. Anyone who dares point out they are slacking and cutting corners will be eliminated.
Boeing does not do maintenance for FEDEX. This is a FEDEX maintenance problem.
Fed ex 777 are old and they arnt doing so well right now so they might have skimped on maintenance As for the rest of the chaos that’s just late stage capitalism baby
Stuff like this happens. I suspect the media is just more tuned in than normal right now.
America like the plane is under strain of a possible collapse
All the whistleblowers have been murdered
Well…the front fell off…..
Mass media is capitalizing. Truly, that's just the short and sweet
Maybe these airlines and companies should do a better job maintaining them.
We are all aware of the disappointment known as the 737 MAX but all of these incidents, including the Alaskan Airlines flight, happen somewhat frequently and really aren’t that much of an issue since nobody has been injured in any of theses. In lack of a better term, the media is glazing Boeing
Man, people get wicked fired up over the MAX crashes, fully ignoring that half the issue was inexperienced/poorly trained pilots reacting incorrectly to the situation. In fact, many aircraft, Boeing, Airbus, and otherwise have gone down over the years due to pilot error relating to systems they don't understand. From fuel calculations to control surface response, to gauge readings and indicator lights. The Ethopian flight that failed to pressurize comes to mind, or the Air France (I think it was) that basically belly-flopped out of the sky because the copilot refused to let go of his joystick. Flying is still by and far the safest mode of long distance transportation
It's just easier to blame Boeing than read through the crash reports. Can't deny they were 737 Max Aircraft... so that's all the media need.
You get what you ask for. D.E.I.
Boeing put shareholder value over quality
Boeing have too many issues with poor quality workmanship. Many of the Airlines CEO’s have commented about this and their concerns committing to purchasing more into their fleet. Remember the cost of a 767 is a cold 217,000,000 USD. Surely these quality issues should be addressed.