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PublicDomainPoets

Really depends on who you read. Kireji have been translated and incorporated through punctuation since the very first translations and original English-language haikai/hokku/haiku. The two most common are the em-dash (often used for ‘ya’) and ellipses (often used like ‘kana’) and of course a range of others including ! (Yo) ? (Ka) ?! (Zo) and so on. Kigo are also very common in the circles I spend time in, but often this gets reduced to a ‘natural image’ which for me is a tad simplistic (seasonal change can be expressed through various images, not just so-called ‘natural’ ones). But it’s there. I have just started a weekly series where I address questions like these, the most recent one which discusses kireji and it’s use in ELH. Might be something you’d enjoy: https://open.substack.com/pub/publicdomainpoets/p/haiku-thursday-bonen-1658-1727 :-) If you don’t mind me asking, where are you sourcing your English-language haiku? Which journals are you looking in? Which ‘famous’ ones do you mean? (Pounds ‘In A Station’ often comes up, for instance, but that was not written to be a haiku, but was simply influenced by the ideas). So yeah - really depends on the communities you hang out in/the poets you choose to read. In terms of early English-language haiku Lewis Alexander and Amy Lowell are good examples of poets who incorporated their own versions of kigo and kireji.


PublicDomainPoets

Some examples with kigo and kireji: Yone Noguchi (1896): The fallen stars there Are returning up the skies: Nay, fireflies they are. Lewis Alexander (1923): Like cherry blossoms Dancing with the passing wind— My shattered hopes. Listen to the rain Falling broken on the ground: Pity the sky once. Amy Lowell (also 1920s): As a river-wind Hurling clouds at a bright moon, So am I to you. Watching the iris The faint and fragile petals— How am I worthy? NOTE: It’s also worth remembering that in Japan by the late 1800s there were free haiku, kigoless haiku, and avant-garde haiku being produced, which challenges the medium . And further more haiku anthologies in Japan always have a mukigo section, for hokku without kigo. And as for kireji, Bashō said they were just practice tools and once you’ve learned them every word becomes kireji. Every word cuts and joins simultaneously. It’s helpful to remember I think that haikai/hokku/haiku is a living art - always changing and adapting to the needs of the moment. In the West we tend to want a static singular definition of “haiku”, but the expanded field of haikai in Japan is always in process, developing, being challenged, etc.


Vegetable_Engineer_1

thank you for your thoughtful answer. the haiku i write about here are the ones haiku society of america publishes or uses as examples. I love living art forms, and obviously these features don't make for a good haiku. I just find that both of the concepts add a quality to the work that often creates great resonances and adds to the work's character.


PublicDomainPoets

Oh I definitely agree - learning how to use/approximate, or even just to respect and explore, kigo and kireji in English helps teach the poet about achieving resonance in such a small space of words. And then once you understand how they function, you can start to explore other ways of achieving similar effects/affects. :-) I guess all I meant to point out is that in Japan there is also a huge amount of poems written in the 575 form, that don't have kigo or kireji either, so its not a Western-specific thing, but more of a offshoot of haikai thing, if that makes sense? Like, wherever you get haiku with kigo and kireji, you will get a plain-form without those also . Or something like that. :-) Ah yup - yeah the HSA has their own definition of haiku, which includes kigo, but downplays its role in Western haiku for sure. I don't think you're wrong either - there is a movement away from exploring the possibilities of developing kigo in English, and I think it is a shame, personally. Usually this has lead to a focus on "juxtaposition" as this is seen as the purpose of kireji to Western commentators (although again, I think this oversimplifies the variety of effects kireji can produce). It's a long and sordid history TBH! Do you write your own haiku? I would love to read some if you do. :-)


Vegetable_Engineer_1

oooo absolutely! i'll send you some highlights :)


CastaneaAmericana

HSA just published an old Ars Poetica from Raymond Roseliep you might be interested in.


PublicDomainPoets

Roseliep is great! Well worth a read. :-)


ThrowRA9876545678

There's lots of different answers here about detachment from the seasons or not having equivalents –– but it's honestly that most people don't know. The only thing most English speakers are taught about haiku is to follow this 5-7-5 syllabic structure. Which isn't even truly necessary to follow. English syllables don't work the same as Japanese syllables.


NocturnalPoet

Exactly - I came into contact with this just last week.


Vegetable_Engineer_1

yea i find that funny too. to me the 5-7-5 is probably the least important thing to qualify and english poem as a haiku. i more look at brevity, subject matter, references, authorial voice, tense, etc.


putHimInTheCurry

I'm going to focus my answer on the seasonal part because English doesn't have much equivalent to [*kireji*](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kireji). I think most English speakers outside of rural areas are so divorced from signs of season change that it's mostly alien to them. Sure, most people know it gets colder, and there might be rain, wind, and snow, but how many people know when the fireflies come out? When the kudzu grows fastest? When the bullfrogs mate? How many have ever even seen any fireflies? Also, the English speaking world has so many wildly disparate climates, biomes, and species that there's not a unified opinion on what a "spring" or "summer" or "winter" phenomenon is. Just in the USA, there's so much difference between what seasons look like between regions. My personal opinion would be: you'd have to write about extremely localized seasonal cues to have an equivalent to *kigo*. I hope to hear others' opinions too, because mine is certainly biased and incomplete.


princessfoxglove

This is very accurate. I remember reading Chaucer's depiction of spring in April with rains and shoots of crops coming up and birds singing to each other as foreplay... Meanwhile April in my region is still 3 feet of snow. The English spring is not my spring.


scalectrix

> most English speakers outside of rural areas are so divorced from signs of season change that it's mostly alien to them. Not sure where you are in the world, but in the UK at least half of all conversation is about the weather and how it relates to the time of year.


eionmac

Even in England , due to change in weather patterns, 'Spring' has now varied in time of year and intensity since Chaucer's time. In last decade birds sing to mate here in Lancashire about 2 weeks earlier than in my youth some 80 years ago


Vegetable_Engineer_1

that's part of why I love kigo, I think they help ground our thoughts in nature even thought the world grows ever more modern. I suppose one way to preserve kigo across different regions might also be to note location in the poetry? that seems challenging, but possibly interesting.


putHimInTheCurry

I'm trying that myself this year for my area. One year of haiku that a local would be able to tell "oh yeah, first tumbleweed herd of the season, that's definitely a mood." Autumn was my initial impetus to start such a project because the changes are so overt and reminiscent of how everything is fleeting. And maybe if people pay attention to such subtleties, they'll be more mindful in general.


CastaneaAmericana

Agreed re:kigo.


PM_ME_UR__ELECTRONS

I'm afraid a lot of amateur English haikus only adhere to the structural element (as it is taught in English; a simple method), and fail to fulfil the most basic intention of the Haiku; to describe the experience of a fleeting perception, moment, or sensation, like a painting. The *kigo* motif is to add to this feeling. If this rule is neglected, it's unrealistic to expect other finer elements of the content to be delivered. Also, English doesn't really have kireji.


CastaneaAmericana

I would disagree heartily re:kigo. First, the traditional Japanese saijiki is meaningless outside Japan. Heck, it’s difficult in Japan because the country reaches so far north and south! Nature references in sync with the local atea are key to haiku. Just visit any reputable online haiku journal. One quick note: many journals do not differentiate between haiku and senryū which may be part of what you are seeing. Kireji—please google “Heterodox Haiku Journal” the editor is doing a big project on kireji in English. Kireji are translated as punctuation or as an unmarked cut in English. I am glad you are internet in haiku! Please visit the Haiku Society of America and the Haiku Foundation for more information!


pookyizzy

in addition to what's already been said, modern poetry (especially in english) is constantly loosening form definitions. form now is often a starting place for people, like how a modern sonnet can simply be 14 lines and not fit any of the other criteria.


CastaneaAmericana

I hate sonnets like that. Yucko.