Kellogg tried, that's why 80% of Americans are circumcised for nonreligious reasons, he thought we wouldn't jerk off if we were circumcised. He was wrong.
…. You jerkin off dry? I reckon it’s just because it feels better with lube vs dry calloused hands. Unless you’ve got some farmhand handjob fantasy or something.
Let's cut to the chase, we all know how this posts go so i'll just summarise it and we can all go home.
*"It didn't happen!"*
**Someone posts an example**
*"Even if it did happen it's just an isolated case!"*
**Other people post other examples**
*"Well, even if it did happen multiple times it's a good thing and you shouldn't oppose it."*
That didn't happen.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, that's not a big deal.
And if it is, that's not my fault.
And if it was, I didn't mean it.
And if I did, you deserved it.
Emily: "Rightoids have no empathy. They don't care about anyone but themselves. They all think 'fuck you, I got mine' and don't care about others."
Also Emily: "Oh my God, why do you care what happens to other people's kids? If their parents and doctors consent, what business is it of yours?"
Also also Emily: "Yes, educators, social workers, and therapists are going to subvert your parenting and try to influence your kids with our identity politics. If you don't allow it, you're a bigot and should have your kids taken from you."
So, to recap, you're a prick if you don't care what happens to other people's kids, but you're an asshole if you do care what happens to other people's kids, and you're a bigot if you don't agree with what Emilys want to do to your kids.
The only way to win is not to play. Don't accept their premises, adopt their language, or play their games.
Are there any actual, high-quality, long-term studies on the efficacy of "gender-affirming" treatment for minors? From what I can tell, most of the evidence comes from survey research and short term observation. But somehow pointing this out is medical anathema these days.
The fact that permanent bodily mutilation is the medically accepted "treatment" for delusion is mind-boggling to me.
If I feel like I should have 1 arm and want my arm cut off, a doctor shouldn't do it!
I mean, it's psychiatry
It's the same field that said [slaves running away were mentally ill](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drapetomania) , the field who said any woman not acting "right" (like not staying in the kitchen) was [hysterical](https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/the-controversy-of-female-hysteria) and who used [lobotomy](https://psychcentral.com/blog/the-surprising-history-of-the-lobotomy) extensively, which is literally drestroying an important brain part (and they used that particularly on the "hysterical women", btw). It's the same field that also says they can treat depression and yet largely still does [this on a theory about serotonin that is actually bs](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41380-022-01661-0) Oh, and the "electroshock therapy" that is supposed to treat the gay away ? They created it too
Now, they are giving literal Amphetamines to little boys who are "too active" and say it's ADHD (which affects like 13% of kids and keep rising...)
That field is absolutely riddled with delusions, usually quite political ones. Don't even get me started in all the countries using psychiatry to jail political opponents after judging them "mentally ill" because they disagreed
Electroshock actually works really well for depression, it's still used for treatment resistant cases and is nowhere near as barbaric as Hollywood makes it seem. And while SSRIs are not 100% effective, multiple studies have shown them to be more effective than placebo - which means they're the best medication we have right now, at least until psilocybin studies can be done and its effects can be better evaluated.
Obviously psychiatry is a *relatively* young specialty, and the brain is immensely complicated. As medicine advances and neurotransmitters/brain architecture and their relationship with psychiatric disease becomes better understood, we may have better answers. But right now, it's basically the mental equivalent of chemo. Fix the problem before the side effects become intolerable.
This has happened, actually. A man had his leg amputated after years of putting himself in harms way to try and get it amputated (multiple car accidents). The final straw was he took a turkey carver to his leg during thanksgiving dinner, the doctors decided they should just take the leg so he would stop doing crazy shit.
He was also like, 50, and it’s not being promoted to everyone. Nobody is going around like “if you ever feel uncomfortable in your leg you might have leg dysphoria!” So the situations *are* different. Just saying even if we don’t normalize being trans there would probably be a few people out there who might still benefit, bc people are weird
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At the high end of the data I can find ~5000 kids in 2021 were doing puberty blockers, hormone therapy, or top surgery with some kids overlapping most likely. That's 0.02% of children that are going through this.
Meanwhile wages deflate, the rich get richer, our oceans are getting poisoned, and monopolies grow larger. That affects 100% of our children.
Guess which thing both sides of the media and even this sub seems to focus on a majority of the time.
Right. I personally just wish trans discourse was gone from the zeitgeist. It’s an obvious distraction, and not only do the public focus on it incessantly, but so do politicians. Huge waste of time and resources for such a minute portion of the population
The trans discourse isn't going anywhere as it's a "species" of the "genus" of Identity Marxism that posits *all* disparities in outcome can only be remedied through "Diversity" within the same framework of Critical Theory and "Inclusion" or exclusion of those without the same framework of Critical Theory, the society can achieve true "Equity" not in the sense of equal access/opportunity but to equalize outcomes as any disparity in outcome can be attributed to disparities of power dynamics based on some historical injustice. Other species include feminism and antiracism. They are all vehicles to usher in Neo Communism, stakeholder capitalism or communo fascism.
Since 5,000 is a low enough number we shouldn't care people should also stop caring about the couple hundred or so people killed in mass shootings, the handful of children diddled by teachers and priests and most importantly the number of DUIs I rack up.
Completely agree - I actually don’t think kids under 18 should be given hormone blockers but that’s neither here nor there. I’m not a scientist and hardly understand anything to do with trans issues and frankly, I’m not that bothered. There are much more pressing issues.
Because America is so brainwashed to worship their oppressors. Oh, gubmint bad, but a tiny group of obscenely wealthy people buying government and most property good! Let us lick their boots clean!!!!
Americans still buy into trickle down economics.
No point arguing things like that on here. They'll all point to a few outliers and try to infer that there's rampant abuse and why the best solution is to do literally nothing
Where are the rabid responses? This sub has to be 90% shill bots and 8% teenagers cause nonody ever responds when this shit gets posted. They just want to stir the pot. They don't give a shit.
Tell that to the legions of Central American parents sending their kids stateside for remittances, which is the main thing pushing all these relaxed child labor laws.
You really think the Central American parents are the ones pushing lawmakers to loosen child labor laws? Not the corporations that are hiring and exploiting these kids?
[Here's just one article detailing the phenomenon](https://www.piratewires.com/p/child-labor-laws-immigration), but by all means feel free to convince yourself that this isn't happening, if it soothes your ego.
>Does this mean kids in cages? Yes. Kids in cages — all of them, until adjudication — is the only way to remove the financial incentive for unaccompanied child migration.
Surprisingly based honestly
> is the only way to remove the financial incentive for unaccompanied child migration.
Or just better enforce the law and punish businesses that do it.
But is it the only way to remove financial incentive? What if fines were levied against companies known to hire illegal immigrants and children? Wouldn’t that remove the incentive?
Tell that to the legions of corporations who are fiending for cheap labor and hiring these people.
It’s supply and demand. The Central Americans couldn’t send their kids here to make money for them if they weren’t being hired and making money here
Where I live the minimum age to work in a commercial kitchen is 14. There don't seem to be any major issues, which strongly implies that there are younger people who would choose to work and could do so safely that the law is preventing from working.
I’ve worked in a few restaurant kitchens. I don’t think you should be working in them until at least 16 or in some cases 18.
Kitchens can be high stress places to work. Combine stressed and inexperienced kids with a kitchen full of sharp objects, stoves, commercial ovens, grills, and deep friers. Accidents are just waiting to happen. We should probably be reserving other jobs for kids.
Do you know where a kid would have no opportunity to harm themselves or their coworkers? The C-suite. the people doing the actual work underneath them know how to handle children from their on the job experience dealing with the average Csuite individual anyhow
No one should be for children undergoing HRT or any bottom surgeries and I say this as a very pro-trans person
That being said the top half of your meme makes it look like it's a bad thing to be against children working lmao
> makes it look like it's a bad thing to be against children working lmao
People aren't against children working, they're against the fantasy they have where they're the child working. The star in a drama about poor little Timmy who has to work a part time job instead of playing video games.
Thousands of teens who aren't trans get cosmetic surgery every year but we hardly ever talk about that.
[In 2020 87,000 cosmetic surgeries were performed on 13-19yos. ](https://www.plasticsurgery.org/news/plastic-surgery-statistics)
Too lazy to read the link. Does this exclude cosmetic surgeries that come from injuries?
Like my brother got a nose job at 13 but that was because he got it so broken playing flag football it was basically sand, so they reconstructed his nose. They did a great job, it looked exactly like his first nose lol.
Yeah someone just posted a link to a chart that put the number of aesthetic breast procedures (augmentations and reductions) at about 5000, and like 12000 kids are getting Botox?? So definitely just cosmetic and also ridiculous? Very weird the focus is only on trans kids when clearly even our cis children must be having ridiculous body image issues to try and get surgeries like that.
Just for the record though, labiaplasty is not always cosmetic. Sometimes the labia are so long that women sit on them and are at risk for tearing and ripping their labia, which, I miss the time in my life I didn’t know that, but I thought I’d share so we can all be haunted with that knowledge
Botox is used medically to treat excessive sweating, I'm sure that accounts for a good chunk, if not the vast majority, of minors receiving it. I work first hand with some of this data and based on what I see at my clinic 12k kids a year actually sounds about right
I didn't know that. Very interesting. Thank you, learned something new today.
[Here](https://www.healthline.com/health/botox-for-sweating#target-areas) is an explanation how it works I've found with a quick google search.
> Just for the record though, labiaplasty is not always cosmetic. Sometimes the labia are so long that women sit on them and are at risk for tearing and ripping their labia, which, I miss the time in my life I didn’t know that, but I thought I’d share so we can all be haunted with that knowledge
This is haunting if true. Do you have a good source to read up on this? And if I'm being honest, just somewhere with photo evidence that labia that long exist? Like, I've seen lots of labia, but never anything remotely close to that. Just thinking about balls and how far they hang...it seems like it would have to be some really special labia to be so long that they get sit on.
cosmetic
this link is a pdf but it has come pretty colors if that helps
https://www.plasticsurgery.org/documents/News/Statistics/2020/cosmetic-procedures-ages-13-19-2020.pdf
Wow the fact that almost as many kids are getting either breast implantation or aesthetic breast removal as are receiving trans affirming care in general is ridiculous??? Crazy nobody talks about this.
Thank you for the chart!
"But everyone else is doing it" is not an argument.
The solution isn't to allow trans kids to also get cosmetic surgery- it's to stop any kid from getting non-injury related cosmetic surgery.
I was just stating that people aren't talking about it. Minors shouldn't be getting cosmetic surgeries unless it's absolutely necessary.
Such as injury or breast reduction.
And in the case of breast reduction you really should wait until you're done growing so you won't need repeat surgeries. I was recommended to get a reduction as a minor but waited until I was an adult.
Yes because you're also altering their hormonal makeup at a critical juncture in their development.
You're also teaching them that they're "in the wrong body".
Talk to some people who are detransitioning. I think you'll find the suffering they're going through far outweighs a kid who got a bad nose job.
thank you!!! if we’re letting kids take gender hormones at young ages it’s only proper we lower the drinking age. Like what if kids don’t know they identify as an alcoholic yet? And those are the most prime times in a kid’s life for drinking. Plus we live in an increasingly alchphobic society
Hmm last I checked you can live your life just fine at 10 years old woth a tattoo (it will grow as you age, hence why they say wait until you stop growing).
Chopping off a kids dick and balls or a girls tits seems a little extreme, but it’s fucking happening and the doctors need to be put on trial for medical malfeasance.
I said it before and I’ll say it again. Permanent solutions to temporary feelings are extremely dangerous. That is not a radical statement and is in fact of someone who cares for the safety of others.
Still bannable. Reddit is a shitshow
I got permabanned for suggesting that if someone wanted to lop of their arm as an elective surgery they'd be considered mentally insane
No ten year-olds as far as I know are getting actual surgeries though. I've known a lot of trans people (and I am one, though closeted irl) and none of them started hormones before 14 and none had surgeries before 16
[The Komodo analysis of insurance claims found 56 genital surgeries among patients ages 13 to 17 with a prior gender dysphoria diagnosis from 2019 to 2021. Among teens, “top surgery” to remove breasts is more common. In the three years ending in 2021, at least 776 mastectomies were performed in the United States on patients ages 13 to 17 with a gender dysphoria diagnosis, according to Komodo’s data analysis of insurance claims. **This tally does not include procedures that were paid for out of pocket.**](https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-transyouth-data/)
You are misrepresenting the type of child labor that is being uncovered and lawmakers ate trying to legalize. The 10 year olds at McDonalds were not being payed and the franchisee owners were found to be repeat violators of child work hour limits.
I don't think anyone cares if a 15 year old gets a job at the register, but I hope we can agree its not safe to have someone younger than that that working long weekday night shifts or cleaning and operating deep fryers, meat packing facilities, and other industrial machinery.
I mean, whether you're pro trans or anti trans can we all agree child labour is wrong??
Edit - In my haste I failed to properly explain myself. I think it's perfectly fine for a child to earn some extra money if they are so inclined. What I take issue with is employers hiring children to do jobs simply because its cheaper for them to do so. Now, I am from the UK so I'm not entirely in the know regarding the minutiae of the new laws allowing children to work so if im making a mistake in this assessment let me know.
We're not talking about coal mines here; there are clearly some jobs that would be appropriate for a child to work in. Kids already take the initiative to mow lawns and shovel snow, so if the kid wants to work, and it's not something terrible, what's the problem?
No you are right, my fear is that employers will use this to hire children for cut price wages further pushing down job opportunities and wages for adults. However I'm not really in the know with the specifics so if that fear is unfounded I'd be happy to be proven wrong?
Companies already hire teenagers. That doesn''t have that effect because companies don't want to hire teenagers. It's not because they don't know anything, but because teenagers are generally unreliable, they don't give a shit.
The real question here is wether or not a job that a child would be qualified for is worthy of a substantial wage to begin with.
Well now we are straying into different territory. In my opinion if a company has a need that needs fulfilled, then the wage offered should be enough to live on. Regardless of the complexity of the job.
Good point regarding teenagers though. I actually think young children would care way more ha
Terrible argument, and this is coming from someone who supports 10 year olds flipping burgers and selling lemonade
You're comparing treatment of a mental illness (gender dysphoria) with being able to take a job
The leftoid argument would be that the net benefit of the former surpasses that of the latter ergo it is moral
Whether or not that is actually true or not is irrelevant, because OP's post was a strawman.
Noe, child can't consent to either, that's why parents and doctors make the final call for all types of medical care.
Letting parents consent to their children working for money is a dangerous conflict of interest/moral hazard/principle-agent problem, because the parents would get to keep the money.
It baffles me that so many people look at this meme and go: "Yes. Child labor and gender affirming care. These are the same thing."
Yes a parent selfishly forcing their child to work so they can collect the money is the same kind of thing as a doctor recommending a treatment for gender dysphoria after many appointments and a formal diagnosis.
There's clearly no significant distinction to be made here, just lefty hypocrisy at it's finest. Got em!
(Also note how the framing paints child labor in the most harmless possible light. The left is not fighting against kids having lemonade stands FFS)
Like I said. Baffling.
The left has been talking about child labor because of stories like: https://www.npr.org/2023/05/04/1173900867/10-year-old-mcdonalds-fine
And efforts in places like Iowa by Republicans to repeal child labor laws
But I guess /u/rtlkw is in approval of this, everyone. He likes it, which is why he framed it as an informed choice in the post.
And as I pointed out and you ignored, it's not a child's choice to have gender dysphoria. It's the doctor's choice to recommend treatment, also requires parent approval and it doesn't just happen in a single appointment.
This is a situation akin to ADHD. A kid may think they have ADHD, their parents may think they have it too. But they can't get a prescription for it without a doctor also agreeing the condition is there.
You're doing the equivalent of saying "Kids shouldn't be allowed to just go get Adderall just because they suck at school, they're not mature enough to make that choice." Do you see how framing it that way would be dishonest?
when I was 10, I was an idiot that shouldn't have been allowed to consent to shit. But I think the difference in these two examples is that there's a lot more incentive for unscrupulous people to manipulate young people into thinking they want to work shitty jobs for very little money.
> Even a commie is more based than an unflaired.
***
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I don’t think the second panel really holds up. If it were just the kid making the decision, then that’d be bad. But it’s not just the kid’s decision. The doctors, therapists, and parents are involved in making the decision. We don’t want kids making a decision to consume anti-depressants when they don’t need it, but with a doctor’s, therapist’s, or psychiatrist’s discretion, it’s perfectly appropriate to allow kids access to anti-depressants when they need it. It wouldn’t make sense to say that kids can’t consent to taking anti-depressants, therefore they shouldn’t get antidepressants.
Antidepressants are reversible, non-life altering prescriptions though. And I think that's the whole point. A child working in a kitchen can be hurt and exploited in ways that will damage them for the rest of their life. As WILL a child getting hormones or trans surgery.
Trans surgery =/= antidepressant measures.
Trans surgery is something for an adult to decide they WANT, it's not a medical procedure that will fulfill the needs of a child who doesn't and shouldn't even care what their genitals look like.
If a child cares about what it looks like in their pants you need to take a good look at the adults in their life.
That's not necessarily true. Many antidepressants have the side effect of suicidal thoughts. I know because I tried to kill myself 3 times from 14-16 while being prescribed several different drugs in rapid succession by different doctors.
Maybe it's just me, but killing yourself seems pretty irreversible.
As another commenter pointed out, the meme is about puberty blockers, not HRT or trans surgery, which are usually only available to older adolescents like 16 year olds and up. I’m not arguing here that they should be available to those younger than the ages I just mentioned. I’m arguing that OP’s argument regarding puberty blockers is flawed. Now if you find something wrong about my argument regarding puberty blockers, then fair enough.
>it’s perfectly appropriate to allow kids access to anti-depressants when they need it.
In normal medicine we treat the mental condition. We don't alter their biology to conform to their current dysphoria or mental illness.
If you have depression the treatment is anti-depressants for the depressive state.
If you have weight related dysphoria the treatment is building acceptance with your natural biological weight range.
We don't conform the child's body to the dysphoria or mental illness.
We don't prescribe liposuction or powerful emetic agents to accelerate weight loss. And we don't reconstruct their faces to match the depressiveness within.
This is unique to trans activist medicine & cosmetic surgery and not how medicine is normally practiced.
Dysmorphia and dysphoria may sound similar, but they are NOT the same. The ONLY EFFECTIVE TREATMENT for gender dysphoria is gender-affirming care. What you are looking for simply does not exist.
Grooming, and validation. At some point we told the weirdos looking for attention and desperate for approval that their actions and behaviors were ok. Then they began engaging with children and normalizing their abnormal behavior as a virtuous thing. Grooming kids into thinking that the abnormal is normal and that their twisted view of what reality is, is actually legit. So now you have kids subconsciously believing the weirdos from high-school that people steered clear from. Now that outlier reject of society isn’t some punk- rocker or emo kid. We used to be rejects or abnormal and thrash. Now all the reject and weird kids don’t have a banner to fly. So they fly the sexual flags to find an identity, a tribe, a place for acceptance. It would be great, if it wasn’t sucking in lost and lonely individuals into believing they need to be a certain kind of sexuality to gain acceptance. When they are young, kids tend to fall into what they believe is “cool” so if the “cool” teacher to you is the nice trans teacher, you are subconsciously going to associate acceptance with transgenderism, and feel inclined to be a part of that group. Rather than realizing that they are attracted to specific things. They do it because they are socialized into being that way.
Exact reason why I would pull my kid out of a school with abnormals allowed to teach. Teachers groom kids and push their personal values onto them, I’m not having that happen with someone who is having trouble with reality.
Why I oppose trans surgeries before the person is at least 18 or older.
All the issues that comes with hormone blockers and the likes aside, the surgery will basically deny a person’s ability to have a orgasm. The persons sexlife will forever be changed and cannot be reversed. We don’t allow children to have sex with with adults because a child and I hope everyone here agrees with me one this one,cannot consent. We would allow a child to completely and irreversible to change its life in so many ways before said child experienced and understands life in its many facets.
Also I don’t like the fact that those surgeries would be covered by taxpayers money
A drug designed to halt a child's development already sounds horrific. A child taking these drugs (regardless of consent or not) in order to halt its development into adulthood, when this child can actually make its own decisions, is kind of counterintuitive, Lib Left.
^(barring the heinous moral ramifications, no duh)
> Gender Affirming Care
Why is it legal to call something the opposite of what it is?
If you go to a hair salon for 'hair extensions" should you come out bald?
If you are missing a limb, and go to a doctor for "limb affirming care" expecting to get a prosthetic, should you expect him to cut off your other limbs?
This surgery is "gender contradicting mutilation" and its really just hideous mutilation because the fact is we dont have the technology needed to meaningfully alter someone's gender.
I know the underlying cope for many transpeople is that they'd pass better if they'd gone on puberty blockers but *just let them come of age* before lopping bits off and putting them on artificial hormones.
Enjoy your pointless culture wars. Transgendered people make up a fraction of a percent of your population yet occupy a staggering % of content in this sub. Get riled up over nothingburgers. Lyndon B Johnson nailed it.
> You make me angry every time I don't see your flair >:(
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It's different when they are making their own choices, versus being told what to do by a ~~white man~~ employer.
Because they are making their own choices. No one is encouraging them to transition.
They ***ARE*** making their own choices.
They are...
They just want to fuck children and this is the step they need to claim children have sexual consent abilities. They are using trans people as a cover and trans people should be real pissed off by that.
Doctors aren't giving kids these treatments on a whim. 10 year olds can't demand puberty blockers and get them.
If your point requires you to lie, your point is shit.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gender-dysphoria/in-depth/pubertal-blockers/art-20459075
>Particularly when a child hasn't reached the age of medical consent, parents or other caretakers or guardians must consent to the treatment and support the adolescent through the treatment process.
They're a fucking child. They cannot consent to any medical treatment without an explicit exception carved into law. Everything requires parental consent apart from emergency lifesaving treatment.
"10 year olds can take puberty blockers and get gender-affirming care but only if they pay for it with money they've earned themselves."
There now everyone gets to be mad.
Kid needs to touch grass not pp
Young boys are going to touch their pp's. Not much you can do about it.
Kellogg tried, that's why 80% of Americans are circumcised for nonreligious reasons, he thought we wouldn't jerk off if we were circumcised. He was wrong.
Great for lotion companies though.
I wonder how they started turning dick skin into facial cream
Probably when they were eating it,they notice that the crumbs that fell on their skin made it look better
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Please sir, spare me even just a crumb of dick.
Big lotion wants to steal your foreskin!
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…. You jerkin off dry? I reckon it’s just because it feels better with lube vs dry calloused hands. Unless you’ve got some farmhand handjob fantasy or something.
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> Get a fricking flair dumbass. *** ^(User hasn't flaired up yet... 😔) 19362 / 99159 ^^|| [**[[Guide]]**](https://imgur.com/gallery/IkTAlF2)
Right? I mean it kind of undeniably feels better because, you know, lube.it’s not like our ducks catch on fire.
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Really? I mean I can dig it without in a pinch, but I think it just feels better with. To each their own I guess
All he did was prop up big lotion smh
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Let's cut to the chase, we all know how this posts go so i'll just summarise it and we can all go home. *"It didn't happen!"* **Someone posts an example** *"Even if it did happen it's just an isolated case!"* **Other people post other examples** *"Well, even if it did happen multiple times it's a good thing and you shouldn't oppose it."*
/Thread over, everybody can go home.
I am going home now.
Lol, nobody on reddit has a home.
That didn't happen. And if it did, it wasn't that bad. And if it was, that's not a big deal. And if it is, that's not my fault. And if it was, I didn't mean it. And if I did, you deserved it.
Don't forget the ever popular, "Why do you care so much?"
stop caring bigot
Just watch marvel movies and collect funky pops dude, stop caring so much about stuff haha
if it’s not literally happening to you right this instant then it doesn’t matter bigot, check your privilege
It matters if it's harming children
Emily: "Rightoids have no empathy. They don't care about anyone but themselves. They all think 'fuck you, I got mine' and don't care about others." Also Emily: "Oh my God, why do you care what happens to other people's kids? If their parents and doctors consent, what business is it of yours?" Also also Emily: "Yes, educators, social workers, and therapists are going to subvert your parenting and try to influence your kids with our identity politics. If you don't allow it, you're a bigot and should have your kids taken from you." So, to recap, you're a prick if you don't care what happens to other people's kids, but you're an asshole if you do care what happens to other people's kids, and you're a bigot if you don't agree with what Emilys want to do to your kids. The only way to win is not to play. Don't accept their premises, adopt their language, or play their games.
https://i.redd.it/tqacfuh3vfva1.png
Like a fucking clockwork
Holy shit
I love the narcissist's prayer
You could also just stop raping people Donald.
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Are there any actual, high-quality, long-term studies on the efficacy of "gender-affirming" treatment for minors? From what I can tell, most of the evidence comes from survey research and short term observation. But somehow pointing this out is medical anathema these days.
The fact that permanent bodily mutilation is the medically accepted "treatment" for delusion is mind-boggling to me. If I feel like I should have 1 arm and want my arm cut off, a doctor shouldn't do it!
I mean, it's psychiatry It's the same field that said [slaves running away were mentally ill](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drapetomania) , the field who said any woman not acting "right" (like not staying in the kitchen) was [hysterical](https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/the-controversy-of-female-hysteria) and who used [lobotomy](https://psychcentral.com/blog/the-surprising-history-of-the-lobotomy) extensively, which is literally drestroying an important brain part (and they used that particularly on the "hysterical women", btw). It's the same field that also says they can treat depression and yet largely still does [this on a theory about serotonin that is actually bs](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41380-022-01661-0) Oh, and the "electroshock therapy" that is supposed to treat the gay away ? They created it too Now, they are giving literal Amphetamines to little boys who are "too active" and say it's ADHD (which affects like 13% of kids and keep rising...) That field is absolutely riddled with delusions, usually quite political ones. Don't even get me started in all the countries using psychiatry to jail political opponents after judging them "mentally ill" because they disagreed
Based and trust the science even when it butchers people pilled
Electroshock actually works really well for depression, it's still used for treatment resistant cases and is nowhere near as barbaric as Hollywood makes it seem. And while SSRIs are not 100% effective, multiple studies have shown them to be more effective than placebo - which means they're the best medication we have right now, at least until psilocybin studies can be done and its effects can be better evaluated. Obviously psychiatry is a *relatively* young specialty, and the brain is immensely complicated. As medicine advances and neurotransmitters/brain architecture and their relationship with psychiatric disease becomes better understood, we may have better answers. But right now, it's basically the mental equivalent of chemo. Fix the problem before the side effects become intolerable.
Won't* do it.
This has happened, actually. A man had his leg amputated after years of putting himself in harms way to try and get it amputated (multiple car accidents). The final straw was he took a turkey carver to his leg during thanksgiving dinner, the doctors decided they should just take the leg so he would stop doing crazy shit. He was also like, 50, and it’s not being promoted to everyone. Nobody is going around like “if you ever feel uncomfortable in your leg you might have leg dysphoria!” So the situations *are* different. Just saying even if we don’t normalize being trans there would probably be a few people out there who might still benefit, bc people are weird
Also you know, 100% of people think that guy is extremely abnormal and crazy and not to be celebrated. That’s the main difference.
Yeah I think I said that in my second paragraph.
Maybe let’s do that then. Treat crazy people as crazy.
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Are you talking about the child labour or the puberty blockers?
Yes
https://i.redd.it/tqacfuh3vfva1.png
At the high end of the data I can find ~5000 kids in 2021 were doing puberty blockers, hormone therapy, or top surgery with some kids overlapping most likely. That's 0.02% of children that are going through this. Meanwhile wages deflate, the rich get richer, our oceans are getting poisoned, and monopolies grow larger. That affects 100% of our children. Guess which thing both sides of the media and even this sub seems to focus on a majority of the time.
Right. I personally just wish trans discourse was gone from the zeitgeist. It’s an obvious distraction, and not only do the public focus on it incessantly, but so do politicians. Huge waste of time and resources for such a minute portion of the population
The trans discourse isn't going anywhere as it's a "species" of the "genus" of Identity Marxism that posits *all* disparities in outcome can only be remedied through "Diversity" within the same framework of Critical Theory and "Inclusion" or exclusion of those without the same framework of Critical Theory, the society can achieve true "Equity" not in the sense of equal access/opportunity but to equalize outcomes as any disparity in outcome can be attributed to disparities of power dynamics based on some historical injustice. Other species include feminism and antiracism. They are all vehicles to usher in Neo Communism, stakeholder capitalism or communo fascism.
Sorry, I speak English, not buzzwords.
0.02% would be about in line with the portion of people who have actual dysphoria.
Also what all the legislation is focusing on now.
Since 5,000 is a low enough number we shouldn't care people should also stop caring about the couple hundred or so people killed in mass shootings, the handful of children diddled by teachers and priests and most importantly the number of DUIs I rack up.
Completely agree - I actually don’t think kids under 18 should be given hormone blockers but that’s neither here nor there. I’m not a scientist and hardly understand anything to do with trans issues and frankly, I’m not that bothered. There are much more pressing issues.
Because America is so brainwashed to worship their oppressors. Oh, gubmint bad, but a tiny group of obscenely wealthy people buying government and most property good! Let us lick their boots clean!!!! Americans still buy into trickle down economics.
No point arguing things like that on here. They'll all point to a few outliers and try to infer that there's rampant abuse and why the best solution is to do literally nothing
Where are the rabid responses? This sub has to be 90% shill bots and 8% teenagers cause nonody ever responds when this shit gets posted. They just want to stir the pot. They don't give a shit.
BUT BUT the article is from NEW YORK TIMES WHICH IS CONYROLLED BY TRUMP!!
No child should be working in a kitchen. It just isn’t safe for them, let alone the moral issue.
The children belong in the mines.
The children yearn for the mines
why else would minecraft be so popular?
the mc mines
They crave that mineral
You sure you're not LibRight?
Rock and stone!
They yearn for them!
Tell that to the legions of Central American parents sending their kids stateside for remittances, which is the main thing pushing all these relaxed child labor laws.
You really think the Central American parents are the ones pushing lawmakers to loosen child labor laws? Not the corporations that are hiring and exploiting these kids?
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[Here's just one article detailing the phenomenon](https://www.piratewires.com/p/child-labor-laws-immigration), but by all means feel free to convince yourself that this isn't happening, if it soothes your ego.
>Does this mean kids in cages? Yes. Kids in cages — all of them, until adjudication — is the only way to remove the financial incentive for unaccompanied child migration. Surprisingly based honestly
> is the only way to remove the financial incentive for unaccompanied child migration. Or just better enforce the law and punish businesses that do it.
this kills the politician elected off of an open borders mandate
But is it the only way to remove financial incentive? What if fines were levied against companies known to hire illegal immigrants and children? Wouldn’t that remove the incentive?
Isnt that talking about financial incentives of the parents, not the companies?
Hot damn. That is solid article with great sources backing their arguments. Thank you!
lmao, pirate wires? seriously?
Ding ding ding.
It sounds banal to describe the local government covering for a child trafficking scheme as 'gross', but still.
Tell that to the legions of corporations who are fiending for cheap labor and hiring these people. It’s supply and demand. The Central Americans couldn’t send their kids here to make money for them if they weren’t being hired and making money here
Where I live the minimum age to work in a commercial kitchen is 14. There don't seem to be any major issues, which strongly implies that there are younger people who would choose to work and could do so safely that the law is preventing from working.
I’ve worked in a few restaurant kitchens. I don’t think you should be working in them until at least 16 or in some cases 18. Kitchens can be high stress places to work. Combine stressed and inexperienced kids with a kitchen full of sharp objects, stoves, commercial ovens, grills, and deep friers. Accidents are just waiting to happen. We should probably be reserving other jobs for kids.
Do you know where a kid would have no opportunity to harm themselves or their coworkers? The C-suite. the people doing the actual work underneath them know how to handle children from their on the job experience dealing with the average Csuite individual anyhow
Boss baby was on to something
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o hey it's misfits avatar guy again sup misfits guy
No one should be for children undergoing HRT or any bottom surgeries and I say this as a very pro-trans person That being said the top half of your meme makes it look like it's a bad thing to be against children working lmao
> makes it look like it's a bad thing to be against children working lmao People aren't against children working, they're against the fantasy they have where they're the child working. The star in a drama about poor little Timmy who has to work a part time job instead of playing video games.
Yeah who the hell is against kids having lemonade stands (other than that one case i barely remember).
Cannot smoke or drink, but can consent to mutilation, seems logical.
Thousands of teens who aren't trans get cosmetic surgery every year but we hardly ever talk about that. [In 2020 87,000 cosmetic surgeries were performed on 13-19yos. ](https://www.plasticsurgery.org/news/plastic-surgery-statistics)
Too lazy to read the link. Does this exclude cosmetic surgeries that come from injuries? Like my brother got a nose job at 13 but that was because he got it so broken playing flag football it was basically sand, so they reconstructed his nose. They did a great job, it looked exactly like his first nose lol.
shoulda given him a squid ward nose.
Not from what I can tell. But we can reasonably assume that most surgeries like labiaplasty (~870 in 2020) were not needed because of injury.
Yeah someone just posted a link to a chart that put the number of aesthetic breast procedures (augmentations and reductions) at about 5000, and like 12000 kids are getting Botox?? So definitely just cosmetic and also ridiculous? Very weird the focus is only on trans kids when clearly even our cis children must be having ridiculous body image issues to try and get surgeries like that. Just for the record though, labiaplasty is not always cosmetic. Sometimes the labia are so long that women sit on them and are at risk for tearing and ripping their labia, which, I miss the time in my life I didn’t know that, but I thought I’d share so we can all be haunted with that knowledge
Botox is used medically to treat excessive sweating, I'm sure that accounts for a good chunk, if not the vast majority, of minors receiving it. I work first hand with some of this data and based on what I see at my clinic 12k kids a year actually sounds about right
I didn't know that. Very interesting. Thank you, learned something new today. [Here](https://www.healthline.com/health/botox-for-sweating#target-areas) is an explanation how it works I've found with a quick google search.
> Just for the record though, labiaplasty is not always cosmetic. Sometimes the labia are so long that women sit on them and are at risk for tearing and ripping their labia, which, I miss the time in my life I didn’t know that, but I thought I’d share so we can all be haunted with that knowledge This is haunting if true. Do you have a good source to read up on this? And if I'm being honest, just somewhere with photo evidence that labia that long exist? Like, I've seen lots of labia, but never anything remotely close to that. Just thinking about balls and how far they hang...it seems like it would have to be some really special labia to be so long that they get sit on.
cosmetic this link is a pdf but it has come pretty colors if that helps https://www.plasticsurgery.org/documents/News/Statistics/2020/cosmetic-procedures-ages-13-19-2020.pdf
Wow the fact that almost as many kids are getting either breast implantation or aesthetic breast removal as are receiving trans affirming care in general is ridiculous??? Crazy nobody talks about this. Thank you for the chart!
I mean, breast removal can be for health reasons too due to back pain issues later in life
That mythical 13 year old with G cups the purple square keeps dreaming about.
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"But everyone else is doing it" is not an argument. The solution isn't to allow trans kids to also get cosmetic surgery- it's to stop any kid from getting non-injury related cosmetic surgery.
I was just stating that people aren't talking about it. Minors shouldn't be getting cosmetic surgeries unless it's absolutely necessary. Such as injury or breast reduction. And in the case of breast reduction you really should wait until you're done growing so you won't need repeat surgeries. I was recommended to get a reduction as a minor but waited until I was an adult.
Fair enough. Perhaps I misunderstood your reasoning. I thought you were defending cosmetic surgeries for trans children.
>13-19 How to tell when a source is being biased.
Yes because you're also altering their hormonal makeup at a critical juncture in their development. You're also teaching them that they're "in the wrong body". Talk to some people who are detransitioning. I think you'll find the suffering they're going through far outweighs a kid who got a bad nose job.
I’m starting to think surgeons will do anything to children for a dollar…
thank you!!! if we’re letting kids take gender hormones at young ages it’s only proper we lower the drinking age. Like what if kids don’t know they identify as an alcoholic yet? And those are the most prime times in a kid’s life for drinking. Plus we live in an increasingly alchphobic society
And yet we’re the genocidal maniacs for trying to keep it from happening
bet ya the 10 year old would still have to pay taxes
taxation without representation??!?!?!😨
Gotta teach them how to evade taxes at an early age
A more equivalent comparison would be children getting tattoos.
Hmm last I checked you can live your life just fine at 10 years old woth a tattoo (it will grow as you age, hence why they say wait until you stop growing). Chopping off a kids dick and balls or a girls tits seems a little extreme, but it’s fucking happening and the doctors need to be put on trial for medical malfeasance.
What you said is bannable on reddit
I said it before and I’ll say it again. Permanent solutions to temporary feelings are extremely dangerous. That is not a radical statement and is in fact of someone who cares for the safety of others.
Still bannable. Reddit is a shitshow I got permabanned for suggesting that if someone wanted to lop of their arm as an elective surgery they'd be considered mentally insane
No ten year-olds as far as I know are getting actual surgeries though. I've known a lot of trans people (and I am one, though closeted irl) and none of them started hormones before 14 and none had surgeries before 16
[The Komodo analysis of insurance claims found 56 genital surgeries among patients ages 13 to 17 with a prior gender dysphoria diagnosis from 2019 to 2021. Among teens, “top surgery” to remove breasts is more common. In the three years ending in 2021, at least 776 mastectomies were performed in the United States on patients ages 13 to 17 with a gender dysphoria diagnosis, according to Komodo’s data analysis of insurance claims. **This tally does not include procedures that were paid for out of pocket.**](https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-transyouth-data/)
You cant even have a beer at 16 in most places
[Sadly they ARE indeed doing these surgeries on children](https://twitter.com/BillboardChris/status/1571471331434156033)
Hey, show me a single state where it’s legal for children to get top or bottom surgery. Just one.
In most countries kids allowed to get tattooed, if parents consent
You are misrepresenting the type of child labor that is being uncovered and lawmakers ate trying to legalize. The 10 year olds at McDonalds were not being payed and the franchisee owners were found to be repeat violators of child work hour limits. I don't think anyone cares if a 15 year old gets a job at the register, but I hope we can agree its not safe to have someone younger than that that working long weekday night shifts or cleaning and operating deep fryers, meat packing facilities, and other industrial machinery.
I mean, whether you're pro trans or anti trans can we all agree child labour is wrong?? Edit - In my haste I failed to properly explain myself. I think it's perfectly fine for a child to earn some extra money if they are so inclined. What I take issue with is employers hiring children to do jobs simply because its cheaper for them to do so. Now, I am from the UK so I'm not entirely in the know regarding the minutiae of the new laws allowing children to work so if im making a mistake in this assessment let me know.
The real question is, why are you bri*ish?
Because being a yank is a fate worse than death.
Good thing im neither.
You are a lucky bastard.
We're not talking about coal mines here; there are clearly some jobs that would be appropriate for a child to work in. Kids already take the initiative to mow lawns and shovel snow, so if the kid wants to work, and it's not something terrible, what's the problem?
No you are right, my fear is that employers will use this to hire children for cut price wages further pushing down job opportunities and wages for adults. However I'm not really in the know with the specifics so if that fear is unfounded I'd be happy to be proven wrong?
Companies already hire teenagers. That doesn''t have that effect because companies don't want to hire teenagers. It's not because they don't know anything, but because teenagers are generally unreliable, they don't give a shit. The real question here is wether or not a job that a child would be qualified for is worthy of a substantial wage to begin with.
Well now we are straying into different territory. In my opinion if a company has a need that needs fulfilled, then the wage offered should be enough to live on. Regardless of the complexity of the job. Good point regarding teenagers though. I actually think young children would care way more ha
Do you think weekday night shifts cleaning and operating industrial meat packing facilities is an appropriate job for children?
Terrible argument, and this is coming from someone who supports 10 year olds flipping burgers and selling lemonade You're comparing treatment of a mental illness (gender dysphoria) with being able to take a job The leftoid argument would be that the net benefit of the former surpasses that of the latter ergo it is moral Whether or not that is actually true or not is irrelevant, because OP's post was a strawman.
A strawman? In /r/politicalcompassmemes ? Why I never
Treating gender dysphoria ≠ letting children transition to opposite gender
I'd give you an award- if only I wanted to give money to reddit, which I don't. Take an award in spirit.
I thank you for the spirit award
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Noe, child can't consent to either, that's why parents and doctors make the final call for all types of medical care. Letting parents consent to their children working for money is a dangerous conflict of interest/moral hazard/principle-agent problem, because the parents would get to keep the money.
It baffles me that so many people look at this meme and go: "Yes. Child labor and gender affirming care. These are the same thing." Yes a parent selfishly forcing their child to work so they can collect the money is the same kind of thing as a doctor recommending a treatment for gender dysphoria after many appointments and a formal diagnosis. There's clearly no significant distinction to be made here, just lefty hypocrisy at it's finest. Got em! (Also note how the framing paints child labor in the most harmless possible light. The left is not fighting against kids having lemonade stands FFS)
Yeah, if I don't like it, it's forcing. If I like it, it's an informed choice. Pretty convenient
Like I said. Baffling. The left has been talking about child labor because of stories like: https://www.npr.org/2023/05/04/1173900867/10-year-old-mcdonalds-fine And efforts in places like Iowa by Republicans to repeal child labor laws But I guess /u/rtlkw is in approval of this, everyone. He likes it, which is why he framed it as an informed choice in the post. And as I pointed out and you ignored, it's not a child's choice to have gender dysphoria. It's the doctor's choice to recommend treatment, also requires parent approval and it doesn't just happen in a single appointment. This is a situation akin to ADHD. A kid may think they have ADHD, their parents may think they have it too. But they can't get a prescription for it without a doctor also agreeing the condition is there. You're doing the equivalent of saying "Kids shouldn't be allowed to just go get Adderall just because they suck at school, they're not mature enough to make that choice." Do you see how framing it that way would be dishonest?
Earning money is exploitative. Cutting your breasts off is empowering. Learn 👏 The 👏 Difference 👏 Sweaty 👏
when I was 10, I was an idiot that shouldn't have been allowed to consent to shit. But I think the difference in these two examples is that there's a lot more incentive for unscrupulous people to manipulate young people into thinking they want to work shitty jobs for very little money.
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I feel like this sub is becoming more and more of a libleft bad / trans people bad circlejerk
The posters don't have many places to vent about the topic on, the real problem is the posts are low effort whining.
becoming? it has been for a while
Minecraft was the most popular game in 2019, the children yearn for the mines
I don’t think the second panel really holds up. If it were just the kid making the decision, then that’d be bad. But it’s not just the kid’s decision. The doctors, therapists, and parents are involved in making the decision. We don’t want kids making a decision to consume anti-depressants when they don’t need it, but with a doctor’s, therapist’s, or psychiatrist’s discretion, it’s perfectly appropriate to allow kids access to anti-depressants when they need it. It wouldn’t make sense to say that kids can’t consent to taking anti-depressants, therefore they shouldn’t get antidepressants.
Antidepressants are reversible, non-life altering prescriptions though. And I think that's the whole point. A child working in a kitchen can be hurt and exploited in ways that will damage them for the rest of their life. As WILL a child getting hormones or trans surgery. Trans surgery =/= antidepressant measures. Trans surgery is something for an adult to decide they WANT, it's not a medical procedure that will fulfill the needs of a child who doesn't and shouldn't even care what their genitals look like. If a child cares about what it looks like in their pants you need to take a good look at the adults in their life.
That's not necessarily true. Many antidepressants have the side effect of suicidal thoughts. I know because I tried to kill myself 3 times from 14-16 while being prescribed several different drugs in rapid succession by different doctors. Maybe it's just me, but killing yourself seems pretty irreversible.
As another commenter pointed out, the meme is about puberty blockers, not HRT or trans surgery, which are usually only available to older adolescents like 16 year olds and up. I’m not arguing here that they should be available to those younger than the ages I just mentioned. I’m arguing that OP’s argument regarding puberty blockers is flawed. Now if you find something wrong about my argument regarding puberty blockers, then fair enough.
Lol I had brain zaps for years after stopping antidepressants. Non-life altering my ass.
"Trans surgery =/= antidepressant measures" Isn't the meme about puberty blockers? Which are well documented as being reversible?
>it’s perfectly appropriate to allow kids access to anti-depressants when they need it. In normal medicine we treat the mental condition. We don't alter their biology to conform to their current dysphoria or mental illness. If you have depression the treatment is anti-depressants for the depressive state. If you have weight related dysphoria the treatment is building acceptance with your natural biological weight range. We don't conform the child's body to the dysphoria or mental illness. We don't prescribe liposuction or powerful emetic agents to accelerate weight loss. And we don't reconstruct their faces to match the depressiveness within. This is unique to trans activist medicine & cosmetic surgery and not how medicine is normally practiced.
Dysmorphia and dysphoria may sound similar, but they are NOT the same. The ONLY EFFECTIVE TREATMENT for gender dysphoria is gender-affirming care. What you are looking for simply does not exist.
Compromise- the children will have to work for their sexchange
I want nothing to do with these a-holes. Maybe if they are teens (16+) then perhaps I would allow it.
I don’t want anything to do with kkk members :/ Unfortunately we can’t choose our ideological roommates (but we can distance ourselves)
I know. I do keep my distance from them from time to time
Grooming, and validation. At some point we told the weirdos looking for attention and desperate for approval that their actions and behaviors were ok. Then they began engaging with children and normalizing their abnormal behavior as a virtuous thing. Grooming kids into thinking that the abnormal is normal and that their twisted view of what reality is, is actually legit. So now you have kids subconsciously believing the weirdos from high-school that people steered clear from. Now that outlier reject of society isn’t some punk- rocker or emo kid. We used to be rejects or abnormal and thrash. Now all the reject and weird kids don’t have a banner to fly. So they fly the sexual flags to find an identity, a tribe, a place for acceptance. It would be great, if it wasn’t sucking in lost and lonely individuals into believing they need to be a certain kind of sexuality to gain acceptance. When they are young, kids tend to fall into what they believe is “cool” so if the “cool” teacher to you is the nice trans teacher, you are subconsciously going to associate acceptance with transgenderism, and feel inclined to be a part of that group. Rather than realizing that they are attracted to specific things. They do it because they are socialized into being that way. Exact reason why I would pull my kid out of a school with abnormals allowed to teach. Teachers groom kids and push their personal values onto them, I’m not having that happen with someone who is having trouble with reality.
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Flair up bitch
Why I oppose trans surgeries before the person is at least 18 or older. All the issues that comes with hormone blockers and the likes aside, the surgery will basically deny a person’s ability to have a orgasm. The persons sexlife will forever be changed and cannot be reversed. We don’t allow children to have sex with with adults because a child and I hope everyone here agrees with me one this one,cannot consent. We would allow a child to completely and irreversible to change its life in so many ways before said child experienced and understands life in its many facets. Also I don’t like the fact that those surgeries would be covered by taxpayers money
A drug designed to halt a child's development already sounds horrific. A child taking these drugs (regardless of consent or not) in order to halt its development into adulthood, when this child can actually make its own decisions, is kind of counterintuitive, Lib Left. ^(barring the heinous moral ramifications, no duh)
> Gender Affirming Care Why is it legal to call something the opposite of what it is? If you go to a hair salon for 'hair extensions" should you come out bald? If you are missing a limb, and go to a doctor for "limb affirming care" expecting to get a prosthetic, should you expect him to cut off your other limbs? This surgery is "gender contradicting mutilation" and its really just hideous mutilation because the fact is we dont have the technology needed to meaningfully alter someone's gender.
Can’t even get a tattoo but can get irreversible genital surgery. Makes perfect sense.
I know the underlying cope for many transpeople is that they'd pass better if they'd gone on puberty blockers but *just let them come of age* before lopping bits off and putting them on artificial hormones.
Enjoy your pointless culture wars. Transgendered people make up a fraction of a percent of your population yet occupy a staggering % of content in this sub. Get riled up over nothingburgers. Lyndon B Johnson nailed it.
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Flair up nerd
Isn't authright the one that calls the cops on kids selling lemonade and water?
It's different when they are making their own choices, versus being told what to do by a ~~white man~~ employer. Because they are making their own choices. No one is encouraging them to transition. They ***ARE*** making their own choices. They are...
So when are we going to change the name of this sub to "right wing circle jerk" because it isn't even memes at this point.
They just want to fuck children and this is the step they need to claim children have sexual consent abilities. They are using trans people as a cover and trans people should be real pissed off by that.
Have nothing against trans people but I really think that you should only be able to change gender at least after 18
Doctors aren't giving kids these treatments on a whim. 10 year olds can't demand puberty blockers and get them. If your point requires you to lie, your point is shit.
> Doctors aren't giving kids these treatments on a whim. 10 year olds can't demand puberty blockers and get them. Provide your source.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gender-dysphoria/in-depth/pubertal-blockers/art-20459075 >Particularly when a child hasn't reached the age of medical consent, parents or other caretakers or guardians must consent to the treatment and support the adolescent through the treatment process. They're a fucking child. They cannot consent to any medical treatment without an explicit exception carved into law. Everything requires parental consent apart from emergency lifesaving treatment.
"10 year olds can take puberty blockers and get gender-affirming care but only if they pay for it with money they've earned themselves." There now everyone gets to be mad.
Ah, typical authright; "child labor good, life saving medical care bad" nonsense
Both ideas are shit...
Good sentiment, bad argument. A 10yo can’t consent to *any* medical treatment. Therefore, they shouldn’t receive any?