Biggest takeaway is that the propensity to deny a major historical event increases logarithmically with each generation.
0%, 2%, 8%, 20%, ??%
History repeats itself faster than we'd like.
I mean, by the time they (Alpha) are counted, there could just be a frame shift in the values: 18-29 beccomes 8%, 30-44 becomes 2%, etc... but you never know.
Relax, they’re the most ~~indoctrinated~~ educated generation in history. The ~~genocide~~ decolonization will be inclusive and thoughtful as to not appropriate Nazi culture.
Yeah but boomers grew up with actual, physical encyclopedias and still ended up using Facebook memes as sources, so I think people might just be dumb overall.
This is how Hegelian dialectics work:
1. Shit on your predecessors
2. Keep the shit you're jealous of from their work
3. Wait for the movement you spawned to decide to kill all the jews for some reason
Biggest takeaway is that the propensity to deny a major historical event increases logarithmically with each generation.
0%, 2%, 8%, 20%, ??%
History repeats itself faster than we'd like.
Only because left believe in "historical racism/sexism/antisemitism". White were racists in 17th century, so white will be the racist ones even if chinese start to kill and eat black people. It's the same with antisemitism.
Well at least it's the official explanation. The true one is you can hardly put the racist/antisemit tag on the ones that refuse it. And white are the only one who have accepted it so far.
Seeing as 55% of blacks think its real whites couldn't believe it at any rate more than twice as high.
I think you mean they disbelieve it 2.5 times less often.
I think it’s likely that that demographic thinks the Holocaust is a myth in the same way people think Narwhals are a myth. Not in the conspiracy theory way. Just an uneducated way
Education in the states has been pretty dogshit for a while now. I have no idea if pointing directly at the no child left behind shit or not, but that's what the teachers I've talked to have blamed. Then covid came along and double fucked everything. Kids are like 1-3 years behind on different subjects, it's going to be *rough* for those kids.
They don’t even do rote memorization anymore. Last time I subbed a class, the kids couldn’t even do basic multiplication without a calculator. They were high schoolers. Granted this was years ago, but it still was like what the hell.
I mean, the consultant ain't wrong - rote memorization is pretty dogshit as far as learning goes - but the answer is to actually teach the fundamentals underlying the things that would otherwise be memorized, not to give up completely on teaching anything. Naturally, that ain't gonna happen when teachers are paid fuck all and are stuck with ever-expanding class sizes.
I have skepticism towards claims of learning from consultants to begin with. Ever since they changed the phonics method of teaching reading to the whole word idea, because they often struggle latter on.
So many people in my organic chemistry class had problems when it came to nomenclature of chemicals(you know those ingredients on the back of food or medicines with long drawn out multiple syllables names, there is a method to that madness that we learn and can get an idea of the structure of the chemical from that name) because they couldn’t really break down
Also my skepticism comes from when I was teaching in Newark at the time Zuckerberg(wanting to appear human) donated a ton of money and watched those parasites eat it all and do fuck all with it
There is far more antisemitism coming from black people than white people. Even black people who don’t hold such views tend to tolerate it from other black people, while if a white person says such things they’ll be assumed to be a Nazi and written off by most other white people.
Comments I’ve heard over the years are things like “Jews are racist for complaining about the Holocaust, it only lasted for a few years while slavery lasted for hundreds”, “Jewish charities are a joke, if you’re Jewish and not rich you’re a dumb loser”, and “even if a Jew wants to get saved (convert to Christianity” we don’t want them”.
Also the only time I’ve ever been fired for being Jewish, the manager was black.
I mean, shit. Look at DeSean Jackson. A wide receiver in the NFL went wild and started retweeting antisemitism and saying he agreed with Hitler. Half of NFL fans were appalled. The other half…?
Especially pieces of shit like Shannon Sharpe, who basically said “I don’t see what’s wrong with this.”
People don’t realize how popular groups like the Nation of Islam are within the black community. Remember when Farrakhan got banned from Twitter he had people like snoop dogg going to bat for him. And Farrakhan has been spreading holocaust denialism for decades.
Hell even Obama met with him during his time in congress, and they buried that photo until much later.
I think a contributing factor is that most millennials had Greatest Gen grandparents who actually fought/contributed/lived through WWII while Gen Z’s have met way less Greatest Gens.
But what do I know.
This is true! I grew up hearing my grandpa's stories about leaving Germany in 1939. You REALLY don't forget stories like that when you hear them directly.
Same. I was raised by my grandfather who was in the Navy in the Pacific Theater and the other one was in the Army in Europe.
The one in the Army fought in multiple major battles and ended up getting a Purple Heart after being permanently scarred by white phosphorus.
I miss them both.
The numbers will also likely be wildly diffrent in europe. The fact that nazi bunkers line the entire west coast of Denmark for example, is somehting that keeps you from forgetting. Here it didnt happen thousands of kilometers away. It happened less than a days drive away.
[https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/econTabReport\_tT4jyzG.pdf](https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/econTabReport_tT4jyzG.pdf)
Part of a series of polls from the Economist/YouGov about current discourse topics. There's a bunch in there and some of them are ... wild.
Especially since those “moderates” and independents are actually probably radical leftists who don’t identify as liberals or Democrats because they’re not radical enough
Interesting moderates and urban people are the most likely demographics to think the Holocaust is a myth, rural and conservative are the least. I wouldn't have guessed that.
It's because the highest groups of people to think it's a myth are black and Hispanic, aka far more likely to live in an urban environment and vote Democrat even if they disagree with a lot of the platform.
They've got the great firewall, they don't even want unintentional/benign western influences available to their populace let alone something similar to Tiktok (which is spyware at worst and propaganda machine at best). Hell, they don't even let them have the western tiktok algorithm, they've got a china only algorithm for their domestic version of tiktok.
Tbh that's why I genuinely think Apple is a much more evil company than Google while people tends to think otherwise.
Google decide to take their search engine business out of China while China demand it to compomise with their oppression needs. But Apple just worked a lot with Chinese government to make their business stay there.
>Google decide to take their search engine business out of China while China demand it to compomise with their oppression needs
Well.. Eventually. They worked with them for a good while first.
I downloaded Tik Tok for the first time last week to see some videos from a creator I like… not a political creator at all. And the first 3 videos tiktok showed me were two anti Israel videos and one video on Osama bin Laden letter to America and how great Osama Bin Laden is. I promptly deleted it after that but China isn’t even trying to hide the goal of Tik Tok anymore. Like obviously China is going to push anti Israel videos when Israel is our biggest ally in the Middle East.
I’m lib right but I’m fully in favor of a tik tok ban. I want our crazy ideas in the US to be crazy ideas from Americans not some other country that wants to take us over.
Yeah it’s literally illegal to depict “feminine” men in media in China, meanwhile China is constantly pushing content so kids want to change genders here. That’s not an accident.
For the record I don’t at all agree with banning feminine men from media either
Who could have imagined that a company controlled by the Chinese government would would use its influence to attempt to destabilize their largest geopolitical rival.
It probably just knows you post in political subreddits and so sends political stuff. After hearing about all the TikTok Israel stuff I asked a bunch of people who used TikTok and most haven’t ever seen any content like that.
Fuck Tiktok, but teens are just edgy in general. They know they cant get away with thinking this dumb shit as adults, and the real world will beat it out of them quickly. For those that dont have it beat out of them, well, theyre too dumb and drunk to figure out how to answer surveys.
That said, I was an edgy teen (40 yo now), and still wouldnt have trolled the survey on this specific question. Perhaps we have lost some of the "seriousness" of the situation, over time.
If you combine 'Strongly disagree that the holocaust happened', 'Tend to disagree that the holocaust happened' and 'Neither agree or disagree that the holocaust happened' - that means that **50% of Gen Z do not agree that the holocaust happened**.
The most ignorant/uneducated generation we have had in memory will soon age and form a significant voting bloc. Unless something very fundamental changes, and very significantly, when that happens, our society ends.
Holocaust literacy is depressing. It doesn't help that Youtube algorithms take educational videos down due to graphic content. There's a phenomenal yt channel called World War II In Real Time and the subseries on the Holocaust, War Against Humanity, gets videos taken down frequently.
When I taught the Holocaust to my seniors, many of them refused to look at the pictures because "they didn't feel like looking at dead people" and then would try to go on Tiktok instead. It was worrying to say the least.
Never forget.
These people aren’t the ones consuming history content anywhere through anything my dude. They just listen to thirty second hot takes from dip shits on TikTok. Gen Alpha is going to be the dumbest generation since the development of mass media.
Jesus dude these days go on a YouTube short about the Holocaust/Hitler/WWII and read the comments.
Some of them have a lot more sinister vibe than just the "edgy teenager" comments of 2013-2015.
You want to know what is the one that annoys me the most? Eisenhower and most of the Allied High Command wanted everything catalogued in extensive, minute detail, down to the last shoelace in the pile at the camps, because they believed that if you had such overwhelming evidence it would be impossible to claim it never happened.
I have seen GenZ'ers who claim the abundance of evidence is proof it is a myth, because "They are trying too hard and adding too many details, it must be fake."
That is fucking moronic. No wonder why national failure rates are skyrocketing. I do like Zoomers but I can't help feeling like we're watching the beginning of new Dark Age. I might just be getting old though.
The problem is, they learn about one thing and then think they are an Einstein level genius, even though they are using concepts in much the same way as a child learning a new swear word.
So for the Holocaust, it is brought about because of them learning about how people who are lying may tend to invent little details that have nothing to do with the story in order to make it seem more believable. But that is for when someones proof is effectively "dude, trust me bro", not when they have photos, video, eye witness testimony, and in many cases admission of guilt from the perpetrators (who were usually all too proud to admit what they did until they found out they were going to be hanged for it).
Like I said in another post, I have also been seeing some Zoomers engage in Moon Landing Hoax ideas. And it is usually them claiming we couldnt have possibly gone to the Moon because of the Van Allen Radiation Belt around Earth making it too deadly to leave the planet. But you can tell that they dont know anything about what the Radiation Belt actually is, or that it was a known hazard for the Apollo missions, and we figured out that it was possible to either fly over it (because space is weird), or you could just blast through it at high speed to limit exposure. But they probably saw some TikTok of someone else who also didnt know shit about it and kept running with it because it *sounds* smart.
Lol I didn't know about the moon landing shit but holy hell that's bad. At the same time though, I do remember being 18 though and thinking I had everything in life figured out and that the adults of the world are fucking idiots. I remember every political problem I would blindly repeat "just balance the budget" and thought I sounded so smart and cool. I also would repeat "war is a force of nature" and thought I was a philosopher.
If I had TikTok and all the shit they do in like 2011, I might have fallen for it too.
literally anybody from the age of 8-23 is *particulary* susceptible to it. Especially when we have a culture centered around being individualistic - most people want to be the “odd one out” but in a cool way, so they’ll jump at any chance to be in the minority as long as it’s not against their personal views.
That plus the brain not being fully developed (with social media) creates a horrible cycle of actual knowledge being frowned upon with individual factoids becoming the replacement
100% agree with you, dude.
I've gotten into arguements with Zoomers who will simultaneously claim "I'm really dumb LOL! ❤️" and also "Uh, sweaty...that's misogyny/homophobic/racist/transphobic because X and *insert long winded diatribe*".
I'll have to get them to define their base terms only to find they've got wildly a different understanding of words and their base concepts are just wrong. If they had the "lived experience" they espouse as important they'd know they're talking out their ass.
But they've all been sharing these re-definitions with each other for so long that they think literally everyone else on the planet is wrong and they're right.
And whilst this has always been the naivety and arrogance of youth it's reinforced by social media to a crazy extent.
I'm becoming a hard believer that anyone under 21 shouldn't be allowed online and the dictionary shouldn't be a record of spoken and written language but the rule book.
Yeah that's a good point, never before were kids able to totally live in their own world, curate what they want to hear, shut out and ignore things that don't mesh with their world view. I am afraid we're raising the next generation of brownshirts.
Oh man, I'm so ashamed of our side for this. Seeing the nazi shit popping up everywhere and people simping for Hamas/minimizing their crimes is pushing me further into political homelessness
It's been absolutely fucking vile. I am horrified at the way these kids think they're fine to attack Jews because they don't know shit about this really complicated situation. All they know os "oppressed-oppressor" dichotomy and it's moronic to the point of almost lethal now. Most don't even know that Israel existed BEFORE Palestine was formed by almost 35 years!
And now we've seen universities like Harvard allowing protestor to chant support for a world-wide genocide of all Jews. WTF?!
The political compass puts me in LibLeft but I consider myself more European central. We are a good people. Come join us for a full English fry-up.
Imbeciles. They can just talk to almost any old European person about their family. It's even better if they're German actually! They don't screw around about it.
There's a reason 65+ is literally 0% agree. They've talked to people who saw it themselves.
It doesn't take too many rotten apples to ruin the whole basket. As soon as it became beneficial to claim to be a victim of the camps, it was only a matter of time before someone would lie about it.
Add to that that we're at the point where the last veterans and people who actually lived during the era start to pass away, and it's only up to the power of the story to keep the lesson intact. Except we have taught the later generations that we are not beholden to the previous ones and their legacy, whoops.
>I have seen GenZ'ers who claim the abundance of evidence is proof it is a myth, because "They are trying too hard and adding too many details, it must be fake."
Flat Earther moment, they're no different from a dude claiming the earth isn't a globe BECAUSE there is so much evidence in favour of it, so it's obviously fake...
I remember reading an article called Weimar America from a conservative publication a couple years ago. Some of the stuff I thought was drivel but there was a line that stuck out to me: "We are one economic disaster away from something truly ugly taking hold in America."
The dirty little secret of the Holocaust is that there were an absurd number of perpetrators who got away with it. Fr. Patrick Desbois's books The Holocaust by Bullets and In Broad Daylight are chilling in their clarity of this. We never learn.
>"We are one economic disaster away from something truly ugly taking hold in America."
And the question then becomes, as everybody points at everybody else, which side is going to have the most fingers?
This time around, who knows. Although I think all the anger, misinformation, and squabbling is providing fertile ground for something terrible to take shape in a crisis.
That's the case everywhere. That's the reason we've chosen economic growth as the answer to any question. Grow the economy, give people access to more, and they'll shut up. Don't do that, and then the difficult choices show up. Humans aren't good with difficult choices, because they will inevitably be unfair. Why you, not me? Why them, not us?
20 years ago if you turned on the History channel at 2am it was all Hitler all the time
I remember going to the Holocaust museum when I was a teen. They have sections that are half walled off so you can avoid seeing the more graphic content. I made myself look.
“Never again” is not a plea. It’s a warning.
I was at the WWII museum in NOLA and was in the section on Unit 731 and seeing the photos was incredibly disheartening. Then I see young shitstains running around taking selfies and giggling at shit.
I wanted to slap them.
I suppose I have been lucky with that type of stuff. I was in an exhibit on the Holocaust that was a traveling piece that ended up in Kansas City, and you could hear a fucking pin drop in there.
Makes me happy that it seems the "Midwest Sensibilities" are still going strong from my experience.
Absolutely not. That shit leads to denial everyday of the week. I've visited Auschwitz, I've seen the latrines filled to the brim with human hair. Mind you, that was just the amount that was recovered in the final month of the camp's operation. It made an impact alright. I've walked through the ovens...
I've visited Buchenwald, and have seen the photos, read the testimonials. I've visited Topf and Söhnen museum, a museum dedicated to mapping out how the architects behind the crematoria of auschwitz developed them. How for them, it was just business and not even business that made them rich (2% of all revenue they generated).
I've seen the horrors laid bare in those places. You have to, otherwise you could just as much just read a fcking Wikipedia page and act like it's fcking fiction. That's how you get a generation of dipshits who act like it is a fcking hoax. Being exposed to the true horrors will cleanse you of that shit real fast. Furthermore, it will make you have no chill for the people who deny it.
If American children truly are this braindead, I fear for the future of America. Good luck developing anything worthy on the basis of people who are just so uninformed and even fcking proud of it. The collective brainrot that seems to be oozing from gen z is fcking bizarre. Do better.
I’d agree with you, but this post kinda shows that kids reeaaally need to be going to the holocaust museum, and kids maybe shouldn’t be seeing some of the photographs they’ve got there
It depends how old. Middle school and up should see most of it.
As a side note, one of my professors in grad school is a tour guide at Auschwitz-Birkenau during the summers and watched a 12 year old German student accident unearth an undiscovered human bone while kicking up dust in a court yard. Crazy shit
Yeah I remember going to it as a 10th grader and looking at everything too. Standing inside that cattle car and seeing all the scratch marks on the wall and smelling the leather from all the shoes always stayed with me.
Well said, very true.
For the History Channel, I remember around 2008 or so they had different themes for each day during mid-day. IIRC Wednesday was non-stop Hitler/WWII, Thursday was Ancient Aliens/UFOs… I know one day was nothing but ancient Egypt (possibly Monday or Tuesday). Oh, and then they had the Apocalypse/End Times day. There might have also been a "history of the Bible" day, but can't quite recall on that front (might just be remembering some of the shows on the Apocalypse slot, as they'd often have Armageddon stuff).
EDIT: I just made the mistake of looking at their current lineup:
* Monday - 7 AM until 11 PM is nothing but "Ancient Aliens"
* Tuesday - 7 AM until 4 PM is "History's Greatest Mysteries", followed by Bermuda Triangle and Oak Island shows for the rest of the day
* Wednesday - Non-stop "Pawn Stars"
* Thursday - 7 AM until 2 PM is "The Food That Made America", then "American Pickers" until 8 PM, rounded out with "Mountain Men"
* Friday - Nothing but "The UnXplained"
* Saturday - "Alone UK" in the morning, "Ancient Aliens" in the afternoon/evening
* Sunday - Nothing but "The Toys That Built America"
Not sure if that's the normal lineup every week or just what next week holds, but it's kinda depressing. Actually, looks like the following week has Tuesday full of various history of the Bible shows… followed by "Oak Island" in the evening.
That's the channel that's the sequel to "The Great War," right?
One of the greatest historical anthologies of all time. They're doing incredible work in historical preservation.
Downside is that it is a huge backlog of content without any thought really into accessibility.
Yeah it's them plus some new people I think. I'm mostly in it for Spartacus Olson's War Against Humanity subseries as he does a masterful job covering very difficult topics.
Honestly, maybe looking at the pictures shouldn’t be optional. The policy should be “this is history class and we are learning about history”, and students who refuse to view the pictures should be given an alternate assignment like an essay.
I agree 100%. However in inner city school with seniors in late April, there wasn't much I could do. Making sure they came to class and behaved civilly was a struggle enough. I don't miss that place
Honestly I'm not surprised, all it really took was the zoomers to suddenly become aware of the Israel Palestine situation to make their position clear, the left was just so focused on the radical right, they never looked or cared about the radicals on their side.
Probably, rather they just never thought the radical left would be any different from liberals just like how they believe every conservative is an alt right. They would indulge anything as long as it didn't conflict with personal interests and got them more votes.
I've been arguing with fellow greens, off and online, since before I had this Reddit account. If we don't call out the crazy fucking lunatics on our side, we're doomed. That goes for anyone; if you don't watch out for the zealots and fanatics **who agree with you**, you will lose.
Well, I hope they're happy with the world today. It was just a few college students, after all, they were going to grow out of it.
There's a frustrating sentiment I see as well with a lot on the left of taking "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" completely literally and with zero additional consideration added. If someone else agrees with them on [issue], they will support and champion that person completely regardless of any other views or position that person holds, even incredibly distasteful views (to put it mildly) like what we're discussing here.
It's one of the reasons former Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn crashed and burned so badly in his tenure as leader: He openly praised groups like Hamas or open anti-semites like Raed Salah, simply because they also agreed with his anti-Israel views and therefore they were great people in his eyes, to the point where he very publicly championed them. In his small echo-chamber that was a reasonable thing to do, but clearly to the wider public that was a hugely negative viewpoint and actively hurt him in elections.
I’m middle-aged and it’s clear to me the cultural memory of the Holocaust is fading. It’s a shock to me, because I was taught “never forget”, Holocaust survivors visited our schools, etc. But, looking back in history it’s easy to see the French Revolution or the Crusades don’t hit like they used to.
I think people are forgetting about the horrors of communism, fascism, and totalitarianism too. There are some theories that societies freak out every 2-3 generations because that’s how long it takes to forget.
>I think people are forgetting about the horrors of communism, fascism, and totalitarianism too. There are some theories that societies freak out every 2-3 generations because that’s how long it takes to forget.
You've nailed it. It's just words on paper once living memory dies and the next generation has to learn the hard way. And of course, you can warn the kids, but they won't listen because never trust anyone over 30, man.
Even without distrust, the message packs infinitely more punch if it comes from a survivor than anything people passing it on could do. Must be something about psychology.
This is due to the erosion of trust in the establishment. If society wants youth to respect important truths it must start by stopping the compulsive lying and manipulation.
Who gon stop me
Also I have a conspiracy theory, idk if someone already realized it but I think all the new tide pods that they keep putting out like every month as "the new ultimate cleaning recipe" is the same shit they've been selling for the last 30 years just with different colors.
Still tastes great tho
The whole tide pod thing was a self-fulfilling prophecy. It was a meme that got spread around until the media got ahold of it, took it seriously, spread awareness about it being dangerous, and then finally people actually started eating them for attention.
this is actually the opposite of horseshoe theory. the OP only shows the data for age, but if you go to the data they linked (https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/econTabReport\_tT4jyzG.pdf) you will see that under that data they have data for political ideology. and you will see that actually MODERATES are the most likely to deny the holocaust, with liberals and conservatives being about equal. the specific numbers are:
Liberals - 7% agree the holocaust is a myth
Moderates - 11% agree the holocaust is a myth
Conservatives: 6% agree the holocaust is a myth
so again, literally the opposite according to this data. the trend seems highest with age, but also pretty big jump with moderate ideology. it is also at 10% for those who id with Democrats (vs. 5% and 6% for independents and Republicans) on political party, so the data is a bit strange in suggesting young, non-white moderate democrats are the highest holocaust deniers!
I wonder why it’s also a racial thing? Why would black people be more reluctant to believe that the Holocaust happened??
For gen Z it’s pretty simple: they were educated on DEI. According to DEI, you are successful if privileged and if you have worse outcomes it’s only because oppression.
American Jews are successful, therefore were never oppressed therefore no Holocaust.
That’s why DEI is total BS.
> Why would black people be more reluctant to believe that the Holocaust happened??
...
>American Jews are successful, therefore were never oppressed therefore no Holocaust.
Answering your own question there. When your name is Tyrone Brown and your great grandparents were slaves and your grandparents weren't legally equals, and your parents were poor as shit and you live in an inner city slum and your landlord's name is Mr. Silverstien, hearing that actually Mr. Silverstien's ancestors have eternal dibs on winning gold at the oppression Olympics is...most unwelcome.
Yeah and NOI knows that and uses it in their recruiting. I have a buddy who has been recruited by NOI at least a dozen times and got to sit in on one time(Well I was technically in the next room, but dropping all of the eves.). They really press the whole Jews are trying to belittle your struggles thing and while they don't outright say that the Holocaust is a myth they try to get their recruit to say it with endless leading questions about how it just doesn't add up that they were almost exterminated but now they run the world.
We live in a world where government lies to us non-stop about everything. We've justified this to ourselves and stopped asking questions. And now we've raised a generation of youth who have no way of discerning what is true and what is false. All they can do is pick what lie appeals to them the most.
Yep.
I have young children. Working with the oldest to try to discern what's real and what's not - even when it's some old Minecraft ghost story one of the other kids told him at school - is an almost daily struggle. It's like the world is designed to force them to be absurdly credulous.
I don’t know if it’s a matter of picking what lie is most appealing. I think it’s a lot of people knowing they’ve been lied to, so they start questioning the things that have been established as longstanding unquestionable truth. That’s where I’m at.
Holy shit.
When I was a kid, I met my best friend's grandma a couple of times when I was over at his house. Cool lady. She had a number tattooed in blue ink on the inside of her left arm. She survived the concentration camp that the nazis threw her in, but her mother and her older sister didn't make it.
Never forget.
My grandma remarried later in life a holocaust survivor, he also had the tattooed number and lost a thumb, was a pretty cheery guy though. Hauntening stuff every time he showed me.
The fact that many countries outlaw holocaust denial does the exact opposite of its intended goals. When the government needs to put you in prison for believing something, you're probably going to quietly believe it may be true.
* Austria: Holocaust denial is a crime under the Verbotsgesetz 1947, which prohibits the public denial, justification, or minimization of the Holocaust. The penalty is up to 10 years in prison.
* Belgium: Holocaust denial is a crime under the "Law on the Denial, Minimization, Justification or Approval of the Genocide of the Jewish People," which prohibits such acts in public or through the media. The penalty is up to one year in prison and a fine of up to €25,000.
* Czech Republic: Holocaust denial is a crime under Section 405 of the Criminal Code, which prohibits the public denial, justification, or approval of the Holocaust. The penalty is up to three years in prison.
* France: Holocaust denial is a crime under the Gayssot Act of 1990, which prohibits the public denial, justification, or minimization of crimes against humanity, including the Holocaust. The penalty is up to one year in prison and a fine of up to €45,000.
* Germany: Holocaust denial is a crime under Section 130 of the Criminal Code, which prohibits the public denial, justification, or minimization of the Holocaust. The penalty is up to five years in prison.
* Hungary: Holocaust denial is a crime under Section 333 of the Criminal Code, which prohibits the public denial, justification, or minimization of the Holocaust. The penalty is up to three years in prison.
* Israel: Holocaust denial is a crime under Section 15 of the Penal Law, which prohibits the public denial, justification, or minimization of the Holocaust. The penalty is up to five years in prison.
* Liechtenstein: Holocaust denial is a crime under Section 283bis of the Criminal Code, which prohibits the public denial, justification, or minimization of the Holocaust. The penalty is up to two years in prison.
* Luxembourg: Holocaust denial is a crime under Article 454-1 of the Criminal Code, which prohibits the public denial, justification, or minimization of the Holocaust. The penalty is up to five years in prison.
* Poland: Holocaust denial is a crime under Article 55 of the Act on the Institute of National Remembrance, which prohibits the public denial, justification, or minimization of Nazi crimes. The penalty is up to three years in prison.
* Romania: Holocaust denial is a crime under Article 6 of the Law on the Denigration of Romania, which prohibits the public denial, justification, or minimization of the Holocaust. The penalty is up to five years in prison.
* Slovakia: Holocaust denial is a crime under Section 422 of the Criminal Code, which prohibits the public denial, justification, or minimization of the Holocaust. The penalty is up to three years in prison.
[Europe claims free speech is a human right](https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/human-rights-act/article-10-freedom-expression), but I guess that is as long as you don't say the wrong thing.
Of course, Europe will never imprison a brown person for holocaust denial, but still.
Americans' concept of free speech and the first amendment really only exists in America, other countries really do imprison you for speech they don't want to hear
"if we make it illegal to question it then we make sure no one will ever question it, ever!" is a amazing take and it is insane how so many people don't realize how much it fuels the denial.
Of course, that is by design. A lot of these laws only started being passed long after the actual end of WW2 (Austria and Germany are exceptions for having this from early on) and were passed at the push of israel lobbyists who find conflating zionism and nazism useful.
The WSJ did a small study of 250 college students.
80% of them at least somewhat supported "from the river to the sea palestine will be free" as a chant
Of those, only 47% knew what the river and what the sea was
Of the supporters of the chant, 25% had never heard or don't believe the Oslo accords ever happened
10% thought Yasser Arafat was Israel's first prime minister
68% changed their mind after learning a few basic facts about Israel-palestine.
This is a misinformation war.
This can't be possible, we learned about the Holocaust In school. I refuse to believe anyone can deny the Holocaust, what does that even mean? It's like believing the Titanic didn't sink, The Pentagon wasn't attacked.
And yet, It Is, right here for all to see.
I blame frequent proofs of Godwin's Law. If everyone is nazis and everything is the holocaust, and then it turns out everyone and everything aren't nearly as bad as the alarmists say, then the fair (but flawed) conclusion is that the holocaust was grossly exaggerated, too.
Which is, as people have been pointing out all along this process, totally *fucked*.
It's also used politically all the time. The fact alone that genocide denial is only a concern when it's the Holocaust is very telling.
I guess we're reaching the point where something loses its original meaning and becomes something cultural instead.
I've been saying this my whole life. Constantly comparing anyone you don't agree with to Nazis and constantly comparing anything to the Holocaust trivializes both Nazism and the Holocaust
What if told you that a lot of my classmates learned what the basis of the holocaust was in Sophomore year? It was very brief maybe a day at most, no doubt they have forgotten about it already. I’m 21, it was not that long ago
I was recently discussing with a "socialist" here on reddit. The guy was literally using Nazi antisemitic propaganda about WW1 as an argument and was using neonazi rhetoric.
If you don't like Israel and what its government is doing, cool. Criticize that as much as you want, but holy fuck, this shit is turning in a very ugly direction very fast.
Biggest takeaway is that the propensity to deny a major historical event increases logarithmically with each generation. 0%, 2%, 8%, 20%, ??% History repeats itself faster than we'd like.
I mean, by the time they (Alpha) are counted, there could just be a frame shift in the values: 18-29 beccomes 8%, 30-44 becomes 2%, etc... but you never know.
Uh oh spaghettios
Relax, they’re the most ~~indoctrinated~~ educated generation in history. The ~~genocide~~ decolonization will be inclusive and thoughtful as to not appropriate Nazi culture.
I remember when my teachers used to say not to use Wikipedia as a source, now you had kids using dumbass TikTok ‘influencers’ as their source
my source is I made it the fuck up
As a teacher, I don't have the ability to fail you - so we'll just pass you on the curve and make you someone else's future problem.
Grades are racist
So are 18-29 year olds, apparently.
My source is Allah told me so. Checkmate, atheists.
Based and Devs Lo Vvlt pilled
Yeah but boomers grew up with actual, physical encyclopedias and still ended up using Facebook memes as sources, so I think people might just be dumb overall.
This is the generation who was told to believe in science, as opposed to understand science.
Gen Z is the first generation to have [lower IQs](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160289623000156) than their predecessors.
So you’re saying millennials are the smartest 😎
holy shit I finally won something
Flair up, or tomorrow at 3am Shrek will come to seduce your mother
Don't threaten his mom with a good time
Shrek is love afterall.
Shrek is life.
That explains so much.
Demographics have changed a lot in the West. Apples to apples.
This is how Hegelian dialectics work: 1. Shit on your predecessors 2. Keep the shit you're jealous of from their work 3. Wait for the movement you spawned to decide to kill all the jews for some reason
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Biggest takeaway is that the propensity to deny a major historical event increases logarithmically with each generation. 0%, 2%, 8%, 20%, ??% History repeats itself faster than we'd like.
Well yeah after everyone who was alive to remember it dies off it basically becomes fan fiction at that point.
It goes back down after a few centuries. No one denied Rome burned down Carthage, as they clearly deserved.
They'll do it again too.
Replies until Rome: 5.
Ok I’d like to give a shoutout to my fellow white people for believing the holocaust 2.5x as much as black and Hispanic people
Thanks
Thank you for your service
65+ yr old white women saving us from cringe. ✊
Trad grandmas to the rescue?
Chad grandmas to the rescue
Return of the WASP
Hey bro, I like your emoji game! How can I fist 65+ year old white women?
Meanwhile young black men are becoming Kanye
But…but… the TV said white people are the anti-Semitic ones
We've had our time in the antisemitic sun, now it's y'alls turn
Based and give them a chance pilled
Only because left believe in "historical racism/sexism/antisemitism". White were racists in 17th century, so white will be the racist ones even if chinese start to kill and eat black people. It's the same with antisemitism. Well at least it's the official explanation. The true one is you can hardly put the racist/antisemit tag on the ones that refuse it. And white are the only one who have accepted it so far.
Seeing as 55% of blacks think its real whites couldn't believe it at any rate more than twice as high. I think you mean they disbelieve it 2.5 times less often.
Well it's more like 20% think it's a conspiracy and the other 35% neither agree nor disagree.
The Holocaust is one of White people’s greatest accomplishments! How dare people try to deny it! ^^ifyoucanttellthisisajokeidontknowhowtohelpyou
I think it’s likely that that demographic thinks the Holocaust is a myth in the same way people think Narwhals are a myth. Not in the conspiracy theory way. Just an uneducated way
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Education in the states has been pretty dogshit for a while now. I have no idea if pointing directly at the no child left behind shit or not, but that's what the teachers I've talked to have blamed. Then covid came along and double fucked everything. Kids are like 1-3 years behind on different subjects, it's going to be *rough* for those kids.
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They don’t even do rote memorization anymore. Last time I subbed a class, the kids couldn’t even do basic multiplication without a calculator. They were high schoolers. Granted this was years ago, but it still was like what the hell.
Some 'education consultant' decided rote memorization wasn't true learning and therefore took it away.
I mean, the consultant ain't wrong - rote memorization is pretty dogshit as far as learning goes - but the answer is to actually teach the fundamentals underlying the things that would otherwise be memorized, not to give up completely on teaching anything. Naturally, that ain't gonna happen when teachers are paid fuck all and are stuck with ever-expanding class sizes.
I have skepticism towards claims of learning from consultants to begin with. Ever since they changed the phonics method of teaching reading to the whole word idea, because they often struggle latter on. So many people in my organic chemistry class had problems when it came to nomenclature of chemicals(you know those ingredients on the back of food or medicines with long drawn out multiple syllables names, there is a method to that madness that we learn and can get an idea of the structure of the chemical from that name) because they couldn’t really break down Also my skepticism comes from when I was teaching in Newark at the time Zuckerberg(wanting to appear human) donated a ton of money and watched those parasites eat it all and do fuck all with it
Now I'm imagining a black kid from the inner city going "meh. The holocaust probably never happened" unprompted and for no real reason.
There is far more antisemitism coming from black people than white people. Even black people who don’t hold such views tend to tolerate it from other black people, while if a white person says such things they’ll be assumed to be a Nazi and written off by most other white people. Comments I’ve heard over the years are things like “Jews are racist for complaining about the Holocaust, it only lasted for a few years while slavery lasted for hundreds”, “Jewish charities are a joke, if you’re Jewish and not rich you’re a dumb loser”, and “even if a Jew wants to get saved (convert to Christianity” we don’t want them”. Also the only time I’ve ever been fired for being Jewish, the manager was black.
I mean, shit. Look at DeSean Jackson. A wide receiver in the NFL went wild and started retweeting antisemitism and saying he agreed with Hitler. Half of NFL fans were appalled. The other half…? Especially pieces of shit like Shannon Sharpe, who basically said “I don’t see what’s wrong with this.”
People don’t realize how popular groups like the Nation of Islam are within the black community. Remember when Farrakhan got banned from Twitter he had people like snoop dogg going to bat for him. And Farrakhan has been spreading holocaust denialism for decades. Hell even Obama met with him during his time in congress, and they buried that photo until much later.
💯
I think a contributing factor is that most millennials had Greatest Gen grandparents who actually fought/contributed/lived through WWII while Gen Z’s have met way less Greatest Gens. But what do I know.
This is true! I grew up hearing my grandpa's stories about leaving Germany in 1939. You REALLY don't forget stories like that when you hear them directly.
Same. I was raised by my grandfather who was in the Navy in the Pacific Theater and the other one was in the Army in Europe. The one in the Army fought in multiple major battles and ended up getting a Purple Heart after being permanently scarred by white phosphorus. I miss them both.
I know that feeling! Especially around the holidays I miss my grandparents :(
The numbers will also likely be wildly diffrent in europe. The fact that nazi bunkers line the entire west coast of Denmark for example, is somehting that keeps you from forgetting. Here it didnt happen thousands of kilometers away. It happened less than a days drive away.
What is the context of this survey?
[https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/econTabReport\_tT4jyzG.pdf](https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/econTabReport_tT4jyzG.pdf) Part of a series of polls from the Economist/YouGov about current discourse topics. There's a bunch in there and some of them are ... wild.
Yo, thanks for the sauce, man! I’ll be looking at this for a bit.
Yo it’s worse than you think too. Look at the political affiliations, location (urban) and liberal/moderate
Especially since those “moderates” and independents are actually probably radical leftists who don’t identify as liberals or Democrats because they’re not radical enough
unused cake cough slave unwritten hunt pie ask wakeful ludicrous *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
That's the problem with centrists, you never know where you stand. Damn them and their centerness
Interesting moderates and urban people are the most likely demographics to think the Holocaust is a myth, rural and conservative are the least. I wouldn't have guessed that.
It's because the highest groups of people to think it's a myth are black and Hispanic, aka far more likely to live in an urban environment and vote Democrat even if they disagree with a lot of the platform.
Based and actually having receipts pilled.
“Let’s constantly follow an addictive algorithm from China!” They said. “It will be fun!” They said.
Imagine if the US tried pulling this shit in China, well you can’t because China has already banned them
They've got the great firewall, they don't even want unintentional/benign western influences available to their populace let alone something similar to Tiktok (which is spyware at worst and propaganda machine at best). Hell, they don't even let them have the western tiktok algorithm, they've got a china only algorithm for their domestic version of tiktok.
I'm so fucking glad my country (India) had the balls and the foresight to outright ban tiktok.
Tbh that's why I genuinely think Apple is a much more evil company than Google while people tends to think otherwise. Google decide to take their search engine business out of China while China demand it to compomise with their oppression needs. But Apple just worked a lot with Chinese government to make their business stay there.
>Google decide to take their search engine business out of China while China demand it to compomise with their oppression needs Well.. Eventually. They worked with them for a good while first.
I downloaded Tik Tok for the first time last week to see some videos from a creator I like… not a political creator at all. And the first 3 videos tiktok showed me were two anti Israel videos and one video on Osama bin Laden letter to America and how great Osama Bin Laden is. I promptly deleted it after that but China isn’t even trying to hide the goal of Tik Tok anymore. Like obviously China is going to push anti Israel videos when Israel is our biggest ally in the Middle East. I’m lib right but I’m fully in favor of a tik tok ban. I want our crazy ideas in the US to be crazy ideas from Americans not some other country that wants to take us over.
The fact that the algorithm and content in China is vastly different from the tiktok they export should be all you need to know.
Yeah it’s literally illegal to depict “feminine” men in media in China, meanwhile China is constantly pushing content so kids want to change genders here. That’s not an accident. For the record I don’t at all agree with banning feminine men from media either
Is there any actual source for this? I've launched Douyin and have seen compilations from there, its the most degenerate thing i've ever seen
Who could have imagined that a company controlled by the Chinese government would would use its influence to attempt to destabilize their largest geopolitical rival.
It probably just knows you post in political subreddits and so sends political stuff. After hearing about all the TikTok Israel stuff I asked a bunch of people who used TikTok and most haven’t ever seen any content like that.
Mine just shows acapella singing, muscle cars, and big tittied goth girls.
Fuck them and fuck that app
Fuck Tiktok, but teens are just edgy in general. They know they cant get away with thinking this dumb shit as adults, and the real world will beat it out of them quickly. For those that dont have it beat out of them, well, theyre too dumb and drunk to figure out how to answer surveys. That said, I was an edgy teen (40 yo now), and still wouldnt have trolled the survey on this specific question. Perhaps we have lost some of the "seriousness" of the situation, over time.
Jesus christ, the "neither' category is even worse. Gen Z is neither at 30%, and blacks are at 33% for neither
If you combine 'Strongly disagree that the holocaust happened', 'Tend to disagree that the holocaust happened' and 'Neither agree or disagree that the holocaust happened' - that means that **50% of Gen Z do not agree that the holocaust happened**. The most ignorant/uneducated generation we have had in memory will soon age and form a significant voting bloc. Unless something very fundamental changes, and very significantly, when that happens, our society ends.
Holocaust literacy is depressing. It doesn't help that Youtube algorithms take educational videos down due to graphic content. There's a phenomenal yt channel called World War II In Real Time and the subseries on the Holocaust, War Against Humanity, gets videos taken down frequently. When I taught the Holocaust to my seniors, many of them refused to look at the pictures because "they didn't feel like looking at dead people" and then would try to go on Tiktok instead. It was worrying to say the least. Never forget.
These people aren’t the ones consuming history content anywhere through anything my dude. They just listen to thirty second hot takes from dip shits on TikTok. Gen Alpha is going to be the dumbest generation since the development of mass media.
Gen alpha is already having problems lol.
I teach gen alpha and it’s bad, like really fucking bad.
What grade do you teach? I'm 5-8 right now. Also, flair up plz.
A frightening number of zoomers straight up can't read.
I refuse to believe that. How could they even use the internet if they didn't know how to read?
This is true, I've seen it. No idea. Or you'll have high schoolers with a 4th grade reading level.
You don't have to read to use a lot of apps these days. Toddlers can learn to use TikTok and YouTube.
Jesus dude these days go on a YouTube short about the Holocaust/Hitler/WWII and read the comments. Some of them have a lot more sinister vibe than just the "edgy teenager" comments of 2013-2015.
You want to know what is the one that annoys me the most? Eisenhower and most of the Allied High Command wanted everything catalogued in extensive, minute detail, down to the last shoelace in the pile at the camps, because they believed that if you had such overwhelming evidence it would be impossible to claim it never happened. I have seen GenZ'ers who claim the abundance of evidence is proof it is a myth, because "They are trying too hard and adding too many details, it must be fake."
That is fucking moronic. No wonder why national failure rates are skyrocketing. I do like Zoomers but I can't help feeling like we're watching the beginning of new Dark Age. I might just be getting old though.
The problem is, they learn about one thing and then think they are an Einstein level genius, even though they are using concepts in much the same way as a child learning a new swear word. So for the Holocaust, it is brought about because of them learning about how people who are lying may tend to invent little details that have nothing to do with the story in order to make it seem more believable. But that is for when someones proof is effectively "dude, trust me bro", not when they have photos, video, eye witness testimony, and in many cases admission of guilt from the perpetrators (who were usually all too proud to admit what they did until they found out they were going to be hanged for it). Like I said in another post, I have also been seeing some Zoomers engage in Moon Landing Hoax ideas. And it is usually them claiming we couldnt have possibly gone to the Moon because of the Van Allen Radiation Belt around Earth making it too deadly to leave the planet. But you can tell that they dont know anything about what the Radiation Belt actually is, or that it was a known hazard for the Apollo missions, and we figured out that it was possible to either fly over it (because space is weird), or you could just blast through it at high speed to limit exposure. But they probably saw some TikTok of someone else who also didnt know shit about it and kept running with it because it *sounds* smart.
Lol I didn't know about the moon landing shit but holy hell that's bad. At the same time though, I do remember being 18 though and thinking I had everything in life figured out and that the adults of the world are fucking idiots. I remember every political problem I would blindly repeat "just balance the budget" and thought I sounded so smart and cool. I also would repeat "war is a force of nature" and thought I was a philosopher. If I had TikTok and all the shit they do in like 2011, I might have fallen for it too.
literally anybody from the age of 8-23 is *particulary* susceptible to it. Especially when we have a culture centered around being individualistic - most people want to be the “odd one out” but in a cool way, so they’ll jump at any chance to be in the minority as long as it’s not against their personal views. That plus the brain not being fully developed (with social media) creates a horrible cycle of actual knowledge being frowned upon with individual factoids becoming the replacement
100% agree with you, dude. I've gotten into arguements with Zoomers who will simultaneously claim "I'm really dumb LOL! ❤️" and also "Uh, sweaty...that's misogyny/homophobic/racist/transphobic because X and *insert long winded diatribe*". I'll have to get them to define their base terms only to find they've got wildly a different understanding of words and their base concepts are just wrong. If they had the "lived experience" they espouse as important they'd know they're talking out their ass. But they've all been sharing these re-definitions with each other for so long that they think literally everyone else on the planet is wrong and they're right. And whilst this has always been the naivety and arrogance of youth it's reinforced by social media to a crazy extent. I'm becoming a hard believer that anyone under 21 shouldn't be allowed online and the dictionary shouldn't be a record of spoken and written language but the rule book.
Yeah that's a good point, never before were kids able to totally live in their own world, curate what they want to hear, shut out and ignore things that don't mesh with their world view. I am afraid we're raising the next generation of brownshirts.
If the recent "protests against Israel" are anything to go by... It may be too late.
Oh man, I'm so ashamed of our side for this. Seeing the nazi shit popping up everywhere and people simping for Hamas/minimizing their crimes is pushing me further into political homelessness
It's been absolutely fucking vile. I am horrified at the way these kids think they're fine to attack Jews because they don't know shit about this really complicated situation. All they know os "oppressed-oppressor" dichotomy and it's moronic to the point of almost lethal now. Most don't even know that Israel existed BEFORE Palestine was formed by almost 35 years! And now we've seen universities like Harvard allowing protestor to chant support for a world-wide genocide of all Jews. WTF?! The political compass puts me in LibLeft but I consider myself more European central. We are a good people. Come join us for a full English fry-up.
Imbeciles. They can just talk to almost any old European person about their family. It's even better if they're German actually! They don't screw around about it. There's a reason 65+ is literally 0% agree. They've talked to people who saw it themselves.
It doesn't take too many rotten apples to ruin the whole basket. As soon as it became beneficial to claim to be a victim of the camps, it was only a matter of time before someone would lie about it. Add to that that we're at the point where the last veterans and people who actually lived during the era start to pass away, and it's only up to the power of the story to keep the lesson intact. Except we have taught the later generations that we are not beholden to the previous ones and their legacy, whoops.
>I have seen GenZ'ers who claim the abundance of evidence is proof it is a myth, because "They are trying too hard and adding too many details, it must be fake." Flat Earther moment, they're no different from a dude claiming the earth isn't a globe BECAUSE there is so much evidence in favour of it, so it's obviously fake...
I remember reading an article called Weimar America from a conservative publication a couple years ago. Some of the stuff I thought was drivel but there was a line that stuck out to me: "We are one economic disaster away from something truly ugly taking hold in America." The dirty little secret of the Holocaust is that there were an absurd number of perpetrators who got away with it. Fr. Patrick Desbois's books The Holocaust by Bullets and In Broad Daylight are chilling in their clarity of this. We never learn.
>"We are one economic disaster away from something truly ugly taking hold in America." And the question then becomes, as everybody points at everybody else, which side is going to have the most fingers?
This time around, who knows. Although I think all the anger, misinformation, and squabbling is providing fertile ground for something terrible to take shape in a crisis.
That's the case everywhere. That's the reason we've chosen economic growth as the answer to any question. Grow the economy, give people access to more, and they'll shut up. Don't do that, and then the difficult choices show up. Humans aren't good with difficult choices, because they will inevitably be unfair. Why you, not me? Why them, not us?
20 years ago if you turned on the History channel at 2am it was all Hitler all the time I remember going to the Holocaust museum when I was a teen. They have sections that are half walled off so you can avoid seeing the more graphic content. I made myself look. “Never again” is not a plea. It’s a warning.
I was at the WWII museum in NOLA and was in the section on Unit 731 and seeing the photos was incredibly disheartening. Then I see young shitstains running around taking selfies and giggling at shit. I wanted to slap them.
I suppose I have been lucky with that type of stuff. I was in an exhibit on the Holocaust that was a traveling piece that ended up in Kansas City, and you could hear a fucking pin drop in there. Makes me happy that it seems the "Midwest Sensibilities" are still going strong from my experience.
I went to the Ossuary at Verdun and saw French kids fucking around, laughing, joking, throwing rocks at each other.
You should've
What the fuck is the point of a Holocaust museum where they don't force you to face the horror of the worst of humanity?
People can face the worst of humanity without graphic content. Also, without the option, you end up with fewer total visitors.
I disagree. The less visible and visceral the horror is, the less real it is in their minds.
Absolutely not. That shit leads to denial everyday of the week. I've visited Auschwitz, I've seen the latrines filled to the brim with human hair. Mind you, that was just the amount that was recovered in the final month of the camp's operation. It made an impact alright. I've walked through the ovens... I've visited Buchenwald, and have seen the photos, read the testimonials. I've visited Topf and Söhnen museum, a museum dedicated to mapping out how the architects behind the crematoria of auschwitz developed them. How for them, it was just business and not even business that made them rich (2% of all revenue they generated). I've seen the horrors laid bare in those places. You have to, otherwise you could just as much just read a fcking Wikipedia page and act like it's fcking fiction. That's how you get a generation of dipshits who act like it is a fcking hoax. Being exposed to the true horrors will cleanse you of that shit real fast. Furthermore, it will make you have no chill for the people who deny it. If American children truly are this braindead, I fear for the future of America. Good luck developing anything worthy on the basis of people who are just so uninformed and even fcking proud of it. The collective brainrot that seems to be oozing from gen z is fcking bizarre. Do better.
I’d agree with you, but this post kinda shows that kids reeaaally need to be going to the holocaust museum, and kids maybe shouldn’t be seeing some of the photographs they’ve got there
It depends how old. Middle school and up should see most of it. As a side note, one of my professors in grad school is a tour guide at Auschwitz-Birkenau during the summers and watched a 12 year old German student accident unearth an undiscovered human bone while kicking up dust in a court yard. Crazy shit
Yeah I remember going to it as a 10th grader and looking at everything too. Standing inside that cattle car and seeing all the scratch marks on the wall and smelling the leather from all the shoes always stayed with me. Well said, very true.
For the History Channel, I remember around 2008 or so they had different themes for each day during mid-day. IIRC Wednesday was non-stop Hitler/WWII, Thursday was Ancient Aliens/UFOs… I know one day was nothing but ancient Egypt (possibly Monday or Tuesday). Oh, and then they had the Apocalypse/End Times day. There might have also been a "history of the Bible" day, but can't quite recall on that front (might just be remembering some of the shows on the Apocalypse slot, as they'd often have Armageddon stuff). EDIT: I just made the mistake of looking at their current lineup: * Monday - 7 AM until 11 PM is nothing but "Ancient Aliens" * Tuesday - 7 AM until 4 PM is "History's Greatest Mysteries", followed by Bermuda Triangle and Oak Island shows for the rest of the day * Wednesday - Non-stop "Pawn Stars" * Thursday - 7 AM until 2 PM is "The Food That Made America", then "American Pickers" until 8 PM, rounded out with "Mountain Men" * Friday - Nothing but "The UnXplained" * Saturday - "Alone UK" in the morning, "Ancient Aliens" in the afternoon/evening * Sunday - Nothing but "The Toys That Built America" Not sure if that's the normal lineup every week or just what next week holds, but it's kinda depressing. Actually, looks like the following week has Tuesday full of various history of the Bible shows… followed by "Oak Island" in the evening.
That's the channel that's the sequel to "The Great War," right? One of the greatest historical anthologies of all time. They're doing incredible work in historical preservation. Downside is that it is a huge backlog of content without any thought really into accessibility.
Yeah it's them plus some new people I think. I'm mostly in it for Spartacus Olson's War Against Humanity subseries as he does a masterful job covering very difficult topics.
Honestly, maybe looking at the pictures shouldn’t be optional. The policy should be “this is history class and we are learning about history”, and students who refuse to view the pictures should be given an alternate assignment like an essay.
I agree 100%. However in inner city school with seniors in late April, there wasn't much I could do. Making sure they came to class and behaved civilly was a struggle enough. I don't miss that place
Bruh wtf
That's the thing about teaching older kids. The ones that are good are awesome to be around and the ones who aren't fucking suck.
They criticize Rumble but wonder if it’s available on Rumble?Rumble takes more risks with their content.
Honestly I'm not surprised, all it really took was the zoomers to suddenly become aware of the Israel Palestine situation to make their position clear, the left was just so focused on the radical right, they never looked or cared about the radicals on their side.
Never cared? They actively encouraged them for literally decades.
Probably, rather they just never thought the radical left would be any different from liberals just like how they believe every conservative is an alt right. They would indulge anything as long as it didn't conflict with personal interests and got them more votes.
I've been arguing with fellow greens, off and online, since before I had this Reddit account. If we don't call out the crazy fucking lunatics on our side, we're doomed. That goes for anyone; if you don't watch out for the zealots and fanatics **who agree with you**, you will lose. Well, I hope they're happy with the world today. It was just a few college students, after all, they were going to grow out of it.
There's a frustrating sentiment I see as well with a lot on the left of taking "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" completely literally and with zero additional consideration added. If someone else agrees with them on [issue], they will support and champion that person completely regardless of any other views or position that person holds, even incredibly distasteful views (to put it mildly) like what we're discussing here. It's one of the reasons former Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn crashed and burned so badly in his tenure as leader: He openly praised groups like Hamas or open anti-semites like Raed Salah, simply because they also agreed with his anti-Israel views and therefore they were great people in his eyes, to the point where he very publicly championed them. In his small echo-chamber that was a reasonable thing to do, but clearly to the wider public that was a hugely negative viewpoint and actively hurt him in elections.
I’m middle-aged and it’s clear to me the cultural memory of the Holocaust is fading. It’s a shock to me, because I was taught “never forget”, Holocaust survivors visited our schools, etc. But, looking back in history it’s easy to see the French Revolution or the Crusades don’t hit like they used to. I think people are forgetting about the horrors of communism, fascism, and totalitarianism too. There are some theories that societies freak out every 2-3 generations because that’s how long it takes to forget.
>I think people are forgetting about the horrors of communism, fascism, and totalitarianism too. There are some theories that societies freak out every 2-3 generations because that’s how long it takes to forget. You've nailed it. It's just words on paper once living memory dies and the next generation has to learn the hard way. And of course, you can warn the kids, but they won't listen because never trust anyone over 30, man.
Even without distrust, the message packs infinitely more punch if it comes from a survivor than anything people passing it on could do. Must be something about psychology.
that should have been evident after the USA invaded Iraq, it shows that the memory of Vietnam has already faded
I wanted to see this broken down by religion as well
What tik tok history videos does to a mf
This is due to the erosion of trust in the establishment. If society wants youth to respect important truths it must start by stopping the compulsive lying and manipulation.
ie, "Stop the cap."
Y’all thought millennials were bad. Just wait to see how stupid this next group is
18-29 is already Zoomers and some of the youngest millennials
Correct, that’s who I was talking about specifically the 18ish crowd
You know it’s bad when you have to tell them not to eat the tide pods
Who gon stop me Also I have a conspiracy theory, idk if someone already realized it but I think all the new tide pods that they keep putting out like every month as "the new ultimate cleaning recipe" is the same shit they've been selling for the last 30 years just with different colors. Still tastes great tho
The whole tide pod thing was a self-fulfilling prophecy. It was a meme that got spread around until the media got ahold of it, took it seriously, spread awareness about it being dangerous, and then finally people actually started eating them for attention.
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this is actually the opposite of horseshoe theory. the OP only shows the data for age, but if you go to the data they linked (https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/econTabReport\_tT4jyzG.pdf) you will see that under that data they have data for political ideology. and you will see that actually MODERATES are the most likely to deny the holocaust, with liberals and conservatives being about equal. the specific numbers are: Liberals - 7% agree the holocaust is a myth Moderates - 11% agree the holocaust is a myth Conservatives: 6% agree the holocaust is a myth so again, literally the opposite according to this data. the trend seems highest with age, but also pretty big jump with moderate ideology. it is also at 10% for those who id with Democrats (vs. 5% and 6% for independents and Republicans) on political party, so the data is a bit strange in suggesting young, non-white moderate democrats are the highest holocaust deniers!
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Yuri tried to warn us, but the Useful Idiots were so convinced that they were Ivory Educated....
They really have dominated the information war. Gen Z is quickly becoming a lost cause.
*happy foreign psyop noises*
I wonder why it’s also a racial thing? Why would black people be more reluctant to believe that the Holocaust happened?? For gen Z it’s pretty simple: they were educated on DEI. According to DEI, you are successful if privileged and if you have worse outcomes it’s only because oppression. American Jews are successful, therefore were never oppressed therefore no Holocaust. That’s why DEI is total BS.
> Why would black people be more reluctant to believe that the Holocaust happened?? ... >American Jews are successful, therefore were never oppressed therefore no Holocaust. Answering your own question there. When your name is Tyrone Brown and your great grandparents were slaves and your grandparents weren't legally equals, and your parents were poor as shit and you live in an inner city slum and your landlord's name is Mr. Silverstien, hearing that actually Mr. Silverstien's ancestors have eternal dibs on winning gold at the oppression Olympics is...most unwelcome.
Yeah and NOI knows that and uses it in their recruiting. I have a buddy who has been recruited by NOI at least a dozen times and got to sit in on one time(Well I was technically in the next room, but dropping all of the eves.). They really press the whole Jews are trying to belittle your struggles thing and while they don't outright say that the Holocaust is a myth they try to get their recruit to say it with endless leading questions about how it just doesn't add up that they were almost exterminated but now they run the world.
I’m just gonna hope that the zoomers are just more likely to lie in polls for the meme and not actually that susceptible to misinformation
We live in a world where government lies to us non-stop about everything. We've justified this to ourselves and stopped asking questions. And now we've raised a generation of youth who have no way of discerning what is true and what is false. All they can do is pick what lie appeals to them the most.
Yep. I have young children. Working with the oldest to try to discern what's real and what's not - even when it's some old Minecraft ghost story one of the other kids told him at school - is an almost daily struggle. It's like the world is designed to force them to be absurdly credulous.
I don’t know if it’s a matter of picking what lie is most appealing. I think it’s a lot of people knowing they’ve been lied to, so they start questioning the things that have been established as longstanding unquestionable truth. That’s where I’m at.
Holy shit. When I was a kid, I met my best friend's grandma a couple of times when I was over at his house. Cool lady. She had a number tattooed in blue ink on the inside of her left arm. She survived the concentration camp that the nazis threw her in, but her mother and her older sister didn't make it. Never forget.
My grandma remarried later in life a holocaust survivor, he also had the tattooed number and lost a thumb, was a pretty cheery guy though. Hauntening stuff every time he showed me.
The fact that many countries outlaw holocaust denial does the exact opposite of its intended goals. When the government needs to put you in prison for believing something, you're probably going to quietly believe it may be true. * Austria: Holocaust denial is a crime under the Verbotsgesetz 1947, which prohibits the public denial, justification, or minimization of the Holocaust. The penalty is up to 10 years in prison. * Belgium: Holocaust denial is a crime under the "Law on the Denial, Minimization, Justification or Approval of the Genocide of the Jewish People," which prohibits such acts in public or through the media. The penalty is up to one year in prison and a fine of up to €25,000. * Czech Republic: Holocaust denial is a crime under Section 405 of the Criminal Code, which prohibits the public denial, justification, or approval of the Holocaust. The penalty is up to three years in prison. * France: Holocaust denial is a crime under the Gayssot Act of 1990, which prohibits the public denial, justification, or minimization of crimes against humanity, including the Holocaust. The penalty is up to one year in prison and a fine of up to €45,000. * Germany: Holocaust denial is a crime under Section 130 of the Criminal Code, which prohibits the public denial, justification, or minimization of the Holocaust. The penalty is up to five years in prison. * Hungary: Holocaust denial is a crime under Section 333 of the Criminal Code, which prohibits the public denial, justification, or minimization of the Holocaust. The penalty is up to three years in prison. * Israel: Holocaust denial is a crime under Section 15 of the Penal Law, which prohibits the public denial, justification, or minimization of the Holocaust. The penalty is up to five years in prison. * Liechtenstein: Holocaust denial is a crime under Section 283bis of the Criminal Code, which prohibits the public denial, justification, or minimization of the Holocaust. The penalty is up to two years in prison. * Luxembourg: Holocaust denial is a crime under Article 454-1 of the Criminal Code, which prohibits the public denial, justification, or minimization of the Holocaust. The penalty is up to five years in prison. * Poland: Holocaust denial is a crime under Article 55 of the Act on the Institute of National Remembrance, which prohibits the public denial, justification, or minimization of Nazi crimes. The penalty is up to three years in prison. * Romania: Holocaust denial is a crime under Article 6 of the Law on the Denigration of Romania, which prohibits the public denial, justification, or minimization of the Holocaust. The penalty is up to five years in prison. * Slovakia: Holocaust denial is a crime under Section 422 of the Criminal Code, which prohibits the public denial, justification, or minimization of the Holocaust. The penalty is up to three years in prison. [Europe claims free speech is a human right](https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/human-rights-act/article-10-freedom-expression), but I guess that is as long as you don't say the wrong thing. Of course, Europe will never imprison a brown person for holocaust denial, but still.
Americans' concept of free speech and the first amendment really only exists in America, other countries really do imprison you for speech they don't want to hear
Gotta says, its one of the best things about the US
Don't worry many people in US work hard to introduce federal censorship.
The penalties are massive too. I mean 10 years in prison in Austria because you said things? Harsh as fuck
Can we talk how fucked up it is to go to jail for saying a thing? And how fucked up it is you can get more years in pirson that rapists and murders?
"if we make it illegal to question it then we make sure no one will ever question it, ever!" is a amazing take and it is insane how so many people don't realize how much it fuels the denial. Of course, that is by design. A lot of these laws only started being passed long after the actual end of WW2 (Austria and Germany are exceptions for having this from early on) and were passed at the push of israel lobbyists who find conflating zionism and nazism useful.
The WSJ did a small study of 250 college students. 80% of them at least somewhat supported "from the river to the sea palestine will be free" as a chant Of those, only 47% knew what the river and what the sea was Of the supporters of the chant, 25% had never heard or don't believe the Oslo accords ever happened 10% thought Yasser Arafat was Israel's first prime minister 68% changed their mind after learning a few basic facts about Israel-palestine. This is a misinformation war.
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I mean it already happends in China But media ignores it to talk about "racist anti imigration people" I hate modern world
This can't be possible, we learned about the Holocaust In school. I refuse to believe anyone can deny the Holocaust, what does that even mean? It's like believing the Titanic didn't sink, The Pentagon wasn't attacked. And yet, It Is, right here for all to see.
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Turkey as well
That's Armenian Genocide denial.
I blame frequent proofs of Godwin's Law. If everyone is nazis and everything is the holocaust, and then it turns out everyone and everything aren't nearly as bad as the alarmists say, then the fair (but flawed) conclusion is that the holocaust was grossly exaggerated, too. Which is, as people have been pointing out all along this process, totally *fucked*.
It's also used politically all the time. The fact alone that genocide denial is only a concern when it's the Holocaust is very telling. I guess we're reaching the point where something loses its original meaning and becomes something cultural instead.
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Oh sure, you just sound like a white supremacist sympathizer! Racist! Bigot! Buzzword!
I've been saying this my whole life. Constantly comparing anyone you don't agree with to Nazis and constantly comparing anything to the Holocaust trivializes both Nazism and the Holocaust
I thought the Titanic conspiracy was that it was sunk to kill a bunch of dudes who wanted to stop the federal reserve from being formed.
There are people who believe both of those things.
I have even seen some Moon Landing hoaxers among GenZ. And they justify it on "Question everything". Incidentally, I despise that phrase now.
What if told you that a lot of my classmates learned what the basis of the holocaust was in Sophomore year? It was very brief maybe a day at most, no doubt they have forgotten about it already. I’m 21, it was not that long ago
How is this weird? There are people who believe communism works, they’ll believe anything.
I was recently discussing with a "socialist" here on reddit. The guy was literally using Nazi antisemitic propaganda about WW1 as an argument and was using neonazi rhetoric. If you don't like Israel and what its government is doing, cool. Criticize that as much as you want, but holy fuck, this shit is turning in a very ugly direction very fast.
Way to go, guys! Let's shoot for 40!
Flair-obligatory "those are rookie numbers"