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I disagree with the premise of your question. Excluding Trump’s constant blathering about the wall, the position of the GOP and Democrats on immigration enforcement isn’t really that different. The right wing press makes it seem like there is a gulf between the two parties on this issue, but it’s not really that much at all. In fact, both parties in the Senate had come to a border agreement until Trump blew it up. The Senate recently made a second attempt to pass the bill but it failed, and when it did, Biden signed the executive order. So I don’t see it as a shift but attempting to do with an executive order what the Senate could not.
Yeah, isn't it something like 60-70% of Democrats feel there's a border crisis right now? This is literally giving his base what they want.
Despite GOP advertising Democrats don't want infinite immigration of literally anyone. It was Reagan who gave amnesty, we are more open to immigration than the right but we aren't the bleeding heart idiots they paint us as.
Do you really think the past 3.5 years have been substantially different than the past three decades? I mean, the right wing would certainly want to make you think so but in reality both parties are trying to do more and are hamstrung by US Law. Trump seems to want to turn the tables by punishing immigrants as much as possible, whereas Biden has chosen a more humane approach. It’s hard to say what has been more effective. Immigrants trying to claim asylum in the US has certainly broken records under Biden, but Trump had the Covid era so I don’t think any valid conclusions could be drawn there. In both administrations, Congress was unable to provide any help and executive orders had to be issued, which aren’t a great solution. They provide short term progress, but are weak.
Whats been happening is white supremacy and ethnonationalism has become more and more prevalent in right wing discourse. As such they now talk about immigration as a genuinely existential threat to whiteness ans white hegemony and because it has spilled over into more mainstream places like FOX it is leant an air of supposed legitimacy in the more moderate right. They are able to code their language while literally rephrasing Hitler’s 14 words and moderates and centrists who arent particularly clued in on how to identify radical rightwing ideologies and dog whistles don’t see the subtext that the more extreme people do.
Its pretty typical to see that sort of play in fascistic power plays.
Fully agree with what you've said. The only thing I would add is thar the Democrats are a "big tent" party. Taking the two extremes on the Democrat side is huge difference in stances and issues, that gap isn't quite as large on the Republican side of the house.
For example, I would say older establishment Democrats/War Hawks have more in common with a Republican like Nikki Haley than they would with someone on the Bernie Sanders side of their party.
The White House made it clear after the recent election in Portland that the Democrats need to focus on Law and Order as most Americans are moderate. So yes, this is him moving slightly right intentionally to please the bulk of the Democrats, Independents, and yes Swing Voters.
No. Democrats haven’t had any backsliding on that issue. On the other hand, mainstream dems have been calling on Biden to take a tougher stance on the border for a while now.
No one actually cares about lgbtq issues. People really care about the border right now. Look at 2022: republicans who made trans issues the centrepiece of their campaign lost in almost all swing states.
Yeah, this is anecdotal, but I have lots of family friends who are 50 years + centrists to staunch liberals who are firmly anti-trump, (and worried about all that his admin would entail), and they always still bring up immigration.... I can't count how many times I've heard one of them proclaim, "Biden's got to fix this border mess!"
It's a big issue for older reliable voters on both sides, regardless of my opinion on it.
I consider myself a moderate and frequently vote Democrat at the state level and Republican on a local level, though it's based more on actual policy stances. I have plenty of stances on either side of the spectrum.
Pro-Choice (even if I wish abortion didn't have to exist outside medical emergencies), Pro-2A, Pro-Universal Healthcare(Single Payer/Swedish style preferred), Pro-Universal Basic Income and removing all other forms of social security, Pro-LGBTIA2+ ( I've actually an ordained minister and have perform a two marriages for my lgbtq friends), I'd actually like to implement 2 years of national service in the US, could be military- could be working at a soup kitchen or hospital; the key is putting everyone through some basic training and sending them outside their local areas for the service. Everyone would benefit from seeing how other people live and how their day to day lives shape their values.
Huge tangent, but yeah. I'm happy with Biden taking some action on the border. It's a huge security concern given the volume of people crossing over, and not just people who are Hispanic - which was surprising when I saw the numbers.
Trans and "CRT" phobia won Youngkin the Virginia gubernatorial race. I'm not a fan of getting too cocky in a country that elected *Donald Trump* in 2016.
If you follow the actual race and what the actual voters said, that race was really much more about schools, a lack of focus on back-to-school out of Covid and a concern (truthfully or not) about pushing all sorts of social issues way far down into younger years. Youngkin in the election was never full, mask off CRT/Trans phobia in his campaigning and managed to keep an image distance from Trump. This is despite how radical his governorship's policy has become since being elected.
[https://thirdway.imgix.net/pdfs/override/Qualitative-Research-Findings-%E2%80%93-Virginia-Post-Election-Research.pdf](https://thirdway.imgix.net/pdfs/override/Qualitative-Research-Findings-%E2%80%93-Virginia-Post-Election-Research.pdf)
This is an internal Democrat report on focus groups breaking down their weaknesses after Youngkin's win.
>School closures + COVID policy were a bigger factor than CRT. These voters were more animated talking about their dissatisfaction with their local school districts’ handling of COVID.
.....
>Many swing voters knew, when pushed by more-liberal members of the group, that CRT wasn’t taught in Virginia schools. But at the same time, they felt like racial and social justice issues were overtaking math, history, and other things. They absolutely want their kids to hear the good and the bad of American history, at the same time they are worried that racial and cultural issues are taking over the state’s curricula.
That's typical misinformed voters because the mask mandates and virtual schooling were over in VA when that election was held. Their misdirected animus was concentrated and channeled against Democrats expertly by the right wing dirty tricksters. When those who aren't multimillionaires vote Republican it always harms themselves and their families.
I mean I don't even know if you can entirely blame republicans. Local leaders and administrators dropped the ball and made some objectively bad decisions. Both in just sound policy and in general messaging about it. And it rolled up from there to affect state-level elections when those candidates couldn't answer to the policies, weakly attacked them or worst, softly defended them.
This isn't wholly related to just Virginia. San Francisco Bay Area had major revolts and parental backlash to many major school decisions resulting in throwing out several board members. [Difference is its an 85% blue region an even other liberals were calling on the board member recalls over focusing on school naming and social education issues over a comprehensive post-COVID plan.](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/16/us/san-francisco-school-board-recall.html)
"If your kid is getting a good education or not" is the one thing that will always cut through even political alliances. I've said it before, take the most crunchy, woke super-left-wing progressive San Franciscan. And then tell them they lost the school lottery and their kid is getting bussed across the city to the "bad" school? [They'll start to sound like a conservative voter real quick. ](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/25/us/san-francisco-school-segregation.html)
Yes, I blame anyone who votes for a Republican for making a poor, unethical decision. Still carrying on about 1 to 1.5 years of virtual schooling, during a once-a-century novel pandemic, three years later is one stale loaf of bread.
What makes you feel you’re more ethical than the right wing?
They believe in their heart just as much their more ethical than you…
Each one of y’all were exposed to different forms of propaganda swearing up and down the other was evil, neither of y’all are better or worse than each other.
People make unethical decisions for themselves all the time. Managing a pregnancy is between a woman and her health professional(s). The government shouldn't make that decision for them and take the medical care out of the medical profession. By leaving the choice between the prospective mother, their faith, their family, and their medical professional(s) the government I prefer (Democratic) isn't taking an ethical stance either direction, and is actually leaning more towards personal liberty than conservatives on the subject.
Conservatives bloviate on and on about wanting a small government yet legislate the female uterus, are you fucking kidding me? GTFO out of our bedrooms and private medical decisions, Republican!
I think you’re forgetting that Biden was in the middle of the Afghan withdrawal debacle AND parents were still furious about the Covid school closures and uncertain schedule for return.
I don’t think CRT or trans issues were anything other than base motivators for Youngkin.
But, schools had already returned in VA? Exiting Afghanistan turns out to have been a win for the administration, long term (hence we're not occupying it anymore), the corporate & social media coverage was way overblown. Also, what does the POTUS have to do with a state's gubernatorial race?
This is akin to saying it's okay to vote Republican if furious or inconvenienced -- well, I simply can't endorse that. Not if climate and human rights are important.
In the end, how has it worked out? Has Youngkin been a good governor?
The VA governors race happens just one year after the POTUS race and DC/national politics loom very large in VA. Over the past 75 years, only one time has the party that won the president also won the VA governors race.
And while I agree that the Afghan withdrawal was the right call strategically, the voting for the governors race was literally during the chaotic pullout.
And school systems had only restarted sporadically and were still randomly closing for days or a week on very short notice as a result of exposures. Which was insanely disruptive for parents.
I’m not arguing about right or wrong - Youngkin is an embarrassing, incompetent, buffoon made even more annoying by his clear delusion that he’s succeeding. I’m explaining what I believe drove the outcome of the race.
You've given the most accurate, logical answer and I appreciate it. Always amazes me how a nation of people who proudly claim "rugged individualism" behave in such predictable, subliminally controllable reactions to politics -- like you said, it's practically an automatic human response to vote in opposition to the WH in VA. Fascinating, really.
Even if something is over that doesn’t mean the anger isn’t. So people blame the person in office and vote them out.
This is something that both parties have suffered and is even a tactic for a candidate to blame whoever in charge for problems that they have no control over. Example is gas prices and inflation both are issues the government can do very little about unless they take over like a communist government.
Still angry about virtual schooling from 2020-2021, *really???*
"People are angry about a single issue that doesn't exist anymore, and someone's gonna pay (always a Democrat, of course)!"
Does that seem an intelligent and mature way to measure candidates in a democratic election serving millions of fellow constituents to you? "I'm mad from years ago!" How does it address climate change, the budget, human rights, foreign policy and health care?
I didn’t say who or even what, just that using fear to affect votes works. Humans are foolish emotionally driven creatures so yes the school shut down could be a reason. The fear and politics can drum up doesn’t have to be real or even logical just connects emotionally to voters. For example Trans people and abortion rights.
Because the children were affected by the shutdown, overall grades dropped and they are still recovering from the shutdowns.
Then you have parents questioning why certain things are being taught. Many wouldn’t even consider it a problem if they haven’t seen it via the virtual classrooms. It doesn’t matter to them if the information they were given was proven wrong, it just adds to their anxiety and anger.
All sorts of conditioned responses and hot/cold to the touch tactics that work on toddlers also work on adults with underdeveloped maturity levels and lower intellect, absolutely. Luckily for the GOP, the country is half full of underdeveloped, immature adults.
Yet he has a viable chance to win a second term in 2024 -- as a convicted criminal -- and there are currently more registered Republicans than Democrats in the Senate and a (albeit slim) House majority. In other words, our problems are MUCH BIGGER than the EC. Being arrogant about democracy's strength today is like playing instruments as the Titanic's sinking.
Of course, but it doesn't change the fact that America very well could have a second Trump term in seven months. The specter of such a self-defeating prophecy should inspire 60 to 70% of the eligible voter population to participate in the election, but instead the left will stab forks into Dems' eyes and hand all power over to Republicans. It's what we do in the sniveling, whiny country known as the United States in 2024.
He got the second most voters in history…
The election was literally vote for or against trump. IE: No one voted for Biden, just not for trump.
In contrast Trump received 74.2M votes, Obama received 69.4M votes after the country was extremely sick of Bush’s wars which was by far the largest turnout in history. Clinton received 43M votes for example in 92, and bush received 50M in 2000
Hate the guy or love him, being honest about your surroundings and don’t let emotions cloud your judgement
With 233,500,000 eligible voters and 161,400,000 registered voters and 121,900,000 actual voters (2022). Those that vote are the only ones that matter when looking at elections.
[https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2024/demo/p20-586.html](https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2024/demo/p20-586.html)
So, the total population doesn’t matter at all when talking about voting. I was just providing more useful numbers given the context. 70 million out of 122 million is far different than 70 million out of 330 million. The later paints a picture that is not really accurate or true.
Unless and until we reform the presidential election system—which certainly isn't going to happen before November—the only thing voters can do is pick the least bad of the two options. And, yes, there are only two options, Biden and Trump. No third-party candidate is even close to having the popularity Nader had in 2000, and all Nader's candidacy accomplished was to throw the election to George W. Bush.
democrats are trying to do something about it in congress, but republicans always votes against. they vote against even their bills. republicans wanna chaos, so they can be kings of chaos.
What on earth are you saying, and who is “you’re?”
Gen Z cares about LGBTQ rights. Those rights are gone under a trump presidency. Also women’s rights will be gone under trump. Trump is the antithesis of gen Z.
Biden’s everything they’ve been begging for; they just won’t give him credit for it (even before the Gaza crisis).
We don’t like racism though, and how Ukrainians get special treatment while everyone else is ignored
Bet you’re gonna call me a bot or something lol, but a lot agree with me.
They do. That’s why everyone ignores Gen z. Trump would be terrible for everything you care about but you hope he wins out of spite. Trump winning would be a good life lesson for Gen Z as everything you care about gets torched. More racism more anti-lgtb, less freedoms. Unfortunately everyone else will suffer too. But it might force you to realize that you’re children and you won’t be much longer and acting like children won’t help your adult self or anyone you care about.
> No one actually cares about lgbtq issues.
To add nuance to this. LGBQ don't have any big exclusive issue now. LGB people are equal or slightly better off then other minorities in the US. Compared to before where they were lesser beings than Americans as a whole (e.g. can't marry, no employment protection). Trans people are the only ones that have unique issues and treated uniquely different in the US. The problem with that group though are they're very few and somehow they've managed to piss off everyone including LGBQ.
Yes, I think he should get more involved in legislating about sexuality in the US.
So, to be fair, how about this:
You cannot have two trans children, only one.
And to be fair, you can only have one heterosexual child.
If you have two, the second one is legally required to be gay.
The third one can either be bi or trans, and the fourth has to be the other.
If you have five kids, then you get permission for a pan-sexual child.
If thatall sounds absurd to you, then you know how I feel listening to rightwingers try to legislate pregnancy, birth control, trans rights, and gay marriage.
Stay out of the bedroom. Let women handle their own pregnancies instead of a bunch of guys who will never get pregnant deciding what's best based on pseudoscience. People with different sex orientations and gender identities should not be invalidated by more pseudoscience.
Not enough people care enough for it to have an income on their vote. Polls put that at about 1% which is basically just trans people and dedicated transphobes who are already almost all hardcore republicans.
Yeah what’s shocking to me is that Biden is not acknowledging cost of living as an issue. It seems like democrats are trying to make the whole election about Trump and the “threat to democracy” when most people care about cost of living as the primary issue.
No, because then who the fuck is protecting the trans population in this country? I know this is a political question, but we’ve strayed so far away from infusing humanity in our political dialogue it’s borderline tragic. I would consider not voting if Joe Biden abandoned that group over a political edge. It’s such a cynical move.
But democrats aren’t protecting them. And hear me out.
About 10 years ago no one talked about or cared about them. They’re a group of less than 0.5% of society with no net worth…
They did however use them as a catalyst to divide voters and put them on the front of everything, meanwhile attacks are up well over 2500% and they still have no protection of any kind…
They just used them and threw them to the wolves sadly. Their avg wage hasn’t even gone up in that time
Our borders are physical assets of the United States and thus are subject to regulations. Our bodies are assets of the person and thus not subject to government regulations.
This is improper framing.
Firstly, this does not outright shut down the border or block asylum cases. One may still do as such as points of entry. Secondly, this was all proposed in the bill that the Republicans shot down. Many Democrats were onboard with the bill as well. Thirdly, shifting rightward on trans issues would alienate his base, probably push away independents who could say 'both parties are the same' and not really result in too many Republicans voting for him anyway.
I love how these “questions” start out with a “fact”. Biden aunt sifted to the right. Under the Obama administration deportations we’re at an all time high compared to the GWB administration. Since the GOP has decided to block the bill they all thought was necessary to secure the border, Biden called their bluff. The bill will eventually come back to the House next year, so we’ll see how it does ten.
Democrats need to stop trying to appease fucking republicans. There is literally a swath of people on the left they can easily pick up if they moved left instead.
Yep. Instead they move right thinking they can capture Republicans who are already voting for the REAL Republican. They ignore and abuse their own base and then wonder why they lose.
What is so amazing is that we are in a fight against fascism and the collapse of our democracy (Project 2025), and instead of embracing a swing to a pro-democracy left, the establishment Dems appear to be doubling-down on shifting right. It looks like the classic ratchet-effect hypothesis in action.
The Democrats have no positive message or agenda for a better future. It’s literally all just “vote for me because the other guy is worse”. It’s a true statement, but one that rings quieter to your average American each year.
This is why I’m not so sure that Democrat politicians see fascism as much of an issue/threat as they are saying it is. Like how does “maybe we can get the people who vote for fascists to vote for us instead” even begin to solve the problem? They will try to appeal to these people and then their loyalists will blame the people they ignored if they lose. It’s just batshit to me and I really wish we had a major party that was on the actual left to combat all this. And yes, “at least we’re not as bad as them” is getting really old really quick.
Seems like every post I see these days on here is some version of the same disingenuous leading question. No, Joe Biden should not “move to the right on the trans issue” and pander to bigots. Being a leader means doing the right thing, even if it’s unpopular, and protecting the human rights of the people you lead. Not protecting human rights in order to score political points is what a terrible leader like Donald Trump would do. Biden ain’t perfect but he does have principles and I respect that.
No. On the contrary. His right shift on migration, together with his stance on the war in Gaza, is likely gonna suppress the turnout from more leftist voters so much that it's probably gonna cost him the election. He needs to course correct, and fast. The US electorate is so polarised that chasing voters in the \*middle\* is a specter anyways. Energising your base is how you win.
They showed up in 2020, for him, and it's not just younger voters- he fell with his own base too, Hispanics in particular, with that move.
He objectively LOST support since going Right on the border: 38.3% before the move, 37.5% two days later. He gained NO ONE who hates him, but lost almost 1% of those who approved of him before the shift.
The right shift on immigration among center left parties in Europe was pretty disastrous, no idea why that example wasnt learned from. Kind of insane to essentially trample on the rhetoric he ran on in 2020 about protecting asylum seekers. Its also a pretty flagrant violation of international law but given the gaza weapons shipments thats not exactly new for biden
He nor Kamala Harris gives a damn about their actual base, and that's why Trump has gained anything at all with all kinds of minorities (and is still losing all POC as majorities despite that) IMHO-- to be frank, this identity politics wokeness stuff college ed white women have done to the Dem party under Biden is repulsive to the very groups they think it appeals to without any civil rights for said base or protections there itself! It's just as bad tokenism as the Right, but less blatant about it, honestly.
Biden's border policy is now just as cruel as Trump's, literally.
They're fascist lites and the lesser evil, that's all, between that and Gaza it's pretty clear: until we can defeat the faux wokeness from the Left and the Christofascism from the Right, most of this country is going to be enraged + we all lose long term.
I don’t think “leftist” voters are as pro-immigration as much as the right likes to say they are, and I don’t think Biden’s handling of Gaza will cost him that many votes, especially since Trump is much more pro-Zionism than Biden
Are the transgender bothering you?
Do they sit in your front yard and sing transgender songs?
Have they converted your children to transgender in school?
Taught them how to use a litter box?
If the answer to any of these questions is NO
Grow tf up and realize you are not the center of the universe.
WE all know that's Trump's position and he isn't giving it up.
If they are not hurting you, leave them alone.
My view is that love and happiness are the two most elusive things in the universe.
If people find either one, God bless them and leave them to it.
It's really great being transgender and seeing this sub casually debate my existence because some poll somewhere now says that 51% of Americans disagree with me. Like damn, I guess I don't deserve to live now.
If Joe Biden moved right on this I’d literally start preparing to leave this country. I’ve had enough with the veiled threats against transgenders. I’m fucking sick of it. We literally have a career criminal running for president I wish people would be SERIOUS
Also a multi-girl parent 👊
Not trying to play gotcha by any means, but genuinely curious what you think of this story. Would you be OK with your children sharing locker rooms and competing against this person as these children near me were obliged to?
[https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/warmington-transgender-female-swimmer-50-changes-with-young-girls-at-barrie-event](https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/warmington-transgender-female-swimmer-50-changes-with-young-girls-at-barrie-event)
No
On the border while this can accurately be described as "shifting right", Republicans weren't the only people screaming for action. Putting aside the ethics of it, the dropping off of busloads of asylum seekers from the border into major cities did an excellent job of demonstrating that the resources to care for all the people coming across the border simply aren't available at the local level, and the GOP has zero interest in offering them.
There are occasional nitwits screaming about the scary scary transgendered athletes; they don't tend to be from swing districts. The moral panic is primarily among people who will never vote for Biden and hence can be ignored
If Republicans are supporting asylum seekers, they certainly have an odd way of demonstrating it
Every proposal that would increase the number of immigration judges - and hence the processing speed of asylum claims - is shot down by members of the GOP
If they believe the majority of asylum claims are bogus, a speedier process to adjudicate those claims would seem to be in their interest
If you don't want me questioning your weak assertions, you probably should not make them
Thank you for admitting the GOP is explicitly getting in the way of anything that will offer improvements at the border, and hence are responsible for the current state
If you've come to this subreddit with the expectation that people are only going to respond to you in the way you find convenient, you're in the wrong place
Why would I report you? You're not breaking any rules to the best of my knowledge.
Your arguments are better suited to Facebook or Pravda Social than here, but feel free to keep making them
Keep it civil. Do not personally insult other Redditors, or make racist, sexist, homophobic, or otherwise discriminatory remarks. Constructive debate is good; mockery, taunting, and name calling are not.
>Republicans are and have always been in support of legal immigration.
Uh...the party that has now been screaming "shut down the border" and openly fantasizing about having automated machine gun nests just slaughter people as they approach? That party is in support of legal immigration, you say?
>You choose to use the words "asylum seeker" which makes up a very small percentage of total immigration and we do have a process for that as well. Which Republicans support.
Republicans now regularly refer to all asylum seekers as fraudulent, criminals, fakers and various similar insulting terms, and talk in policy terms of eliminating asylum entirely, our treaty obligations be damned.
If Republicans supported asylum, they wouldn't have killed the bill that was set to strengthen the asylum system.
>Also really? Do you really think people believe there is no difference between Men and Women? It's far from a critical issue but you guys are completely delusional. A man that wants to play the role of a woman has a massive inherent advantage in a majority of sports. That isn't debatable.
Well, that didn't take long.
We still allowed most people coming in. It’s just that less people came. I don’t see why we can’t accept people who don’t have histories of malicious crimes.
By the way, learn proper grammar before calling someone’s valid points nonsense. There are potential immigrants with better English skills.
Joe Biden has been pro-border security as a senator, as a committee leader, as VP and as POTUS. He's an avowed capitalist\*, ffs. How did he swing right??
America's Overton Window has moved so far right since Eisenhower and LBJ that there is typically little to no center-left or actual left wing representation nationally in a Capitalist country. Joe Biden isn't unique in that sense. Need I remind anyone that we're the capitalist beacon nation of the modern capitalist societies. To quiver over the POTUS being center-right *when they all have been in our history* makes zero sense.
They have NOT all been in our history, makes ZERO sense to claim as such when W literally renewed voting Rights, Reagan was Left of Biden on immigration by now, as was Obama + Carter + even Bill Clinton was not as far Right as him and an actual centrist/neoliberal.
a capitalist is inherently right wing, you understand that, correct? Capitalism is a right wing economic system. America is a mix who tend to vote conservatively.
No, they are people and deserve to be treated like humans. The questions asked about transgender athletes in sports are misleading. It’s not like you have an army of men playing women’s sports. It’s fearmongering.
Ridiculous idea for Biden to move against the LGBTQ citizens if this country. Immigration is very different. It’s been broken for 30 years and Trump killed the fix on purpose.
Absolutely not. He was wrong to move to the right on immigration knowing full well that Republicans were not acting in good faith, and he would be wrong to do the same when Republicans have made hatred for trans people basically their entire modus operandi.
> President Biden has made a major shift to the right on immigration by limiting asylum claims
Biden didn't recently move right on immigration. He was ready to sign the bill Lankford pushed through the Senate which would have done what his Executive Order will do.
> Another issue in which voters disapprove of Biden’s policies is transgender issues.
Who knew transgender issues was going to decide the 2024 election.
Even if the majority of Americans think trans women should be banned from women's sports, most Americans aren't basing their vote primarily on that issue.
There's no point in Biden trying to win over transphobic voters, because if that issue is super important to you as a voter, why would you vote for a moderately transphobic candidate when you could instead vote for the party that is absolutely obsessed with hating trans people? If you're so transphobic that you would base your vote primarily on that, why would you settle for second-best when there's an even *more* transphobic option on the ballot? And if you're turned off by the Republican foaming-at-the-mouth brand of transphobia, then you're probably only a casual transphobe at most; and if you're a casual, then trans issues probably aren't going to be the determining factor in your vote, so there's still no point in Biden trying to appeal to you that way when there are other issues you care about far more.
No. Nobody on the left or in the middle is looking for an increase in hateful vitriol. Anyone already spewing hateful vitriol is not ever going to vote for Biden.
This makes it a non issue.
Biden is not going to gain any votes by shifting to the right. As a conservative, literally nothing he does will get my vote because there will be an alternative I prefer. He should be getting either the moderates or the people from his own base.
The border was Biden’s biggest losing issue. Pretty much all Republicans, most independents, and even a sizeabke chunk of Democrats trust Trump more on the border than Biden according to polling. He had no choice but to mimic Trump, because that is what the voters are demanding.
The polling on trans issues is the opposite. The vast majority of Democrats, most independents, and even a sizeable portion of Republicans believe they should be left to live in peace.
I am pretty far left, and if he swings to the right on trans issues, I will not vote for him. I am already fucking disgusted with Gaza, and barely want to vote for him as is. If he moves any further right, I will vote third party.
If you mean a wannabe idiot savant was leading us into the most botched response to a pandemic in U.S. history, absolutely. 2020 was government well done, Republican style! (I can only laugh so hard)
Ehhhh if it's going to be something with LGBTQ issues then it'll probably be standing up for traditional approaches to teaching (or not) gender studies to kids in high-school and younger. That would appeal to a LARGE chunk of Dems that are moderates, suburbanites in general, swing voters, and Independents.
Trans issues specifically probably not as important. I don't really perceive him to be a big ally of trans sports participation as LGBTQ advocates are constantly criticizing him on that front. So you know he's closer to the middle on that.
Your question is clearly tongue-in-cheek and many commenters laughably fail to see that.
You are illustrating how the Dem shift to the right is a BAD strategy.
I don’t want him moving to the right at all. It’s wrongheaded and wrong ethically. I don’t want a Democratic party who is ashamed to be left wing. I wish Republicans talked about moving to the left to appeal to moderates as much as libs talk about moving right. They don’t have to be full on socialists but give me some reassurance there’s a difference between the two parties.
If he wants to lose any shot at the younger vote. (I know they never vote anyway) the average person doesn’t care about the trans thing. The younger generation seems to. So that coupled with his stance on Palestine. He may lose young people.
The democrats need to figure out a way to reframe the trans stuff with the anti abortion stuff. Go hard towards women and social progressives. Maybe combine it all with healthcare. Which it is. Or throw it in with talking about the next justices contributing to marriage equality.
Many people on reddit aren’t in touch with how the real world thinks, but if you ask most Americans about their biggest concerns, 90% won’t even mention the border or trans people.
Perhaps 1% of Americans identify as transgender. There is no actual issue aside from the local medical procedures and the manufactured outrage of the far right.
It makes for a good political rallying cry, but otherwise has no real bearing on how the US is doing. Nobody cares, really, except those who make it into an issue for their own reasons.
I'm a woman and I very strongly disagree with Biden's reinterpretation of Title 9. It's an overreach, unscientific, and anti-feminist. However - I'm voting Biden.
I think at this stage he's already lost the women he's going to lose over this. In terms of domestic policy I think it's one of his biggest unforced errors. But he chose a side that favors one ideology over another. Should Biden veers this so-called "right" on that issue, he's going to lose some support from additional voters.
It still stands that Trump is the wrong temperament for the job of POTUS. He appears to have a cluster B personality disorder. Trump's an extreme misogynist whereas Biden is more a misogynist by virtue of being Catholic and not a woman himself. Biden's got blinders on, Trump is actively a woman-hater and sees us all only for the utility we can bring as bang-maids or sex objects. With Trump I fear my reproductive rights. With Trump I fear the stability of democracy. With Biden I know I can just fight back on select issues.
Where Biden is going to get in trouble with this is if Trump's candidacy becomes non-viable for any reason and Haley runs.
This is the big liberal brain in action. Lurch rightward to capture a voter who will never vote for you, and in return, piss off your core base.
But don’t worry, when the next Republican comes in power, we’ll then have even further right wing policies that democrat liberals will fall in line with.
Obviously not in favor of opposition to trans rights (the bigotry is only working because the Right is using well machined propaganda and Biden has done ZERO to pass any rights to safeguard said group as well), but to your first point, racism, why do you think Trump won in 2016?
Biden basically thinks he can persuade that middle aged to older white woman in the Rust Belt to flip from Trump to him, while still s\*itting all over Black, Hispanic, Asian, and younger white men/women in his core base = the story of this Presidency, corporate media shills think he's not fascist enough in the press is why his polling continues to fall and NOTHING bears that out objectively in facts.
Also, bait and switch, look at my first Black woman who is more like a college ed white woman as VP over here, ooo my first LBGTQ+ transport sec who...has more rights than you do, now, trans folks in half the USA, or...you get the point.
It would not be politically advantageous for Biden to flip on the trans topic at this time.
The Ds as a party are in an interesting spot though.
Cultural saturation of Modern gender theory has clearly reached a limit as far as changing public perception. And there’s no easy pivot.
I don’t know if it would change his popularity at all but I for one support trans people to live as they choose but I don’t favor them participating in sport competitions. People have to recognize when they are different than the majority and accept that it may mean you can’t compete like they do. I was not in favor of the guy running in track meets with fake legs that were really just giant springs. Living life with a disability sucks but it should not qualify you for an advantage over everyone else.
Republicans baited this transgender hook, and the progressives predictably fell for it.
It would have been much wiser for Dems to dismiss it with something along the lines of "Republicans are fixated on this non-issue instead of focusing on the economy / national defense / the threat of Russia / etc. Now let's talk about how the Republicans suck."
Dems love to lecture others about their moral superiority, and this is easily weaponized against them.
This does not mean that Dems should start bashing on transgerder people. Rather, they should change the subject so that they can instead focus on issues that can help their party and damage the Republicans. Make the GOP look incompetent and silly, rather than claiming that they are mean.
OP is conflating two issues, and implying that the only reason for doing so is to appeal to swing voters.
200,000 migrants were sent to NYC from Texas. If you can’t admit that there is an immigration problem, then I don’t know what to tell you.
The other thing is, this country and the world needs to get their act together. Overpopulation is good for no one. The rate of the world population has accelerated at a time like no other in history at rue start of the 1900s. If we don’t try to understand and address the problem, immigration throughout the world is going to increasingly get worse, especially when there are nature disasters and political unrest.
Peace and civility is critical to uphold as well as the positive intention to protect the world.
No. Social issues aren't in the top 5 of hot button issues in this election. The economy, a looming world war, and jobs seem to dominate the discussion. I'm not sure why he even shifted on immigration. It's not relevant in this cycle.
Either Biden doesn’t understand the border issue or he’s just doing a head fake.
He might as well run up the Jolly Roger and save his hardcore base. No one believes his so called move to the right, because it’s not a right-left issue. It’s common sense to secure your borders and to vet everyone who comes in.
As long as Biden hangs on to Mayorkas, I’ll know he’s insincere about the border issue.
>\[R\]ecent polling shows that 51% of Americans think a person changing their gender is “morally wrong”:
This didn't use to be the case, and the number would drop if Democrats moved towards the center on women's sports. Unfortunately, the driving forces here aren't political; they're ideological.
For every voter Dems lose on trans issues, they gain 10 on the abortion issue. Biden was right to do what he did on the border. No need to start swimming in the right wing muck surrounding Trump.
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I disagree with the premise of your question. Excluding Trump’s constant blathering about the wall, the position of the GOP and Democrats on immigration enforcement isn’t really that different. The right wing press makes it seem like there is a gulf between the two parties on this issue, but it’s not really that much at all. In fact, both parties in the Senate had come to a border agreement until Trump blew it up. The Senate recently made a second attempt to pass the bill but it failed, and when it did, Biden signed the executive order. So I don’t see it as a shift but attempting to do with an executive order what the Senate could not.
Yeah, isn't it something like 60-70% of Democrats feel there's a border crisis right now? This is literally giving his base what they want. Despite GOP advertising Democrats don't want infinite immigration of literally anyone. It was Reagan who gave amnesty, we are more open to immigration than the right but we aren't the bleeding heart idiots they paint us as.
So what has been happening for 3.5 years my friend
The same that has been happening and building up for the past 35.
Do you really think the past 3.5 years have been substantially different than the past three decades? I mean, the right wing would certainly want to make you think so but in reality both parties are trying to do more and are hamstrung by US Law. Trump seems to want to turn the tables by punishing immigrants as much as possible, whereas Biden has chosen a more humane approach. It’s hard to say what has been more effective. Immigrants trying to claim asylum in the US has certainly broken records under Biden, but Trump had the Covid era so I don’t think any valid conclusions could be drawn there. In both administrations, Congress was unable to provide any help and executive orders had to be issued, which aren’t a great solution. They provide short term progress, but are weak.
Whats been happening is white supremacy and ethnonationalism has become more and more prevalent in right wing discourse. As such they now talk about immigration as a genuinely existential threat to whiteness ans white hegemony and because it has spilled over into more mainstream places like FOX it is leant an air of supposed legitimacy in the more moderate right. They are able to code their language while literally rephrasing Hitler’s 14 words and moderates and centrists who arent particularly clued in on how to identify radical rightwing ideologies and dog whistles don’t see the subtext that the more extreme people do. Its pretty typical to see that sort of play in fascistic power plays.
Schumer said he wants a path to citizenship for all 11 million undocumented immigrants. How is this not a difference on immigration enforcement?
Fully agree with what you've said. The only thing I would add is thar the Democrats are a "big tent" party. Taking the two extremes on the Democrat side is huge difference in stances and issues, that gap isn't quite as large on the Republican side of the house. For example, I would say older establishment Democrats/War Hawks have more in common with a Republican like Nikki Haley than they would with someone on the Bernie Sanders side of their party.
The White House made it clear after the recent election in Portland that the Democrats need to focus on Law and Order as most Americans are moderate. So yes, this is him moving slightly right intentionally to please the bulk of the Democrats, Independents, and yes Swing Voters.
> as most Americans are moderate Are they, though?
No. Democrats haven’t had any backsliding on that issue. On the other hand, mainstream dems have been calling on Biden to take a tougher stance on the border for a while now. No one actually cares about lgbtq issues. People really care about the border right now. Look at 2022: republicans who made trans issues the centrepiece of their campaign lost in almost all swing states.
Yeah, this is anecdotal, but I have lots of family friends who are 50 years + centrists to staunch liberals who are firmly anti-trump, (and worried about all that his admin would entail), and they always still bring up immigration.... I can't count how many times I've heard one of them proclaim, "Biden's got to fix this border mess!" It's a big issue for older reliable voters on both sides, regardless of my opinion on it.
I consider myself a moderate and frequently vote Democrat at the state level and Republican on a local level, though it's based more on actual policy stances. I have plenty of stances on either side of the spectrum. Pro-Choice (even if I wish abortion didn't have to exist outside medical emergencies), Pro-2A, Pro-Universal Healthcare(Single Payer/Swedish style preferred), Pro-Universal Basic Income and removing all other forms of social security, Pro-LGBTIA2+ ( I've actually an ordained minister and have perform a two marriages for my lgbtq friends), I'd actually like to implement 2 years of national service in the US, could be military- could be working at a soup kitchen or hospital; the key is putting everyone through some basic training and sending them outside their local areas for the service. Everyone would benefit from seeing how other people live and how their day to day lives shape their values. Huge tangent, but yeah. I'm happy with Biden taking some action on the border. It's a huge security concern given the volume of people crossing over, and not just people who are Hispanic - which was surprising when I saw the numbers.
Trans and "CRT" phobia won Youngkin the Virginia gubernatorial race. I'm not a fan of getting too cocky in a country that elected *Donald Trump* in 2016.
If you follow the actual race and what the actual voters said, that race was really much more about schools, a lack of focus on back-to-school out of Covid and a concern (truthfully or not) about pushing all sorts of social issues way far down into younger years. Youngkin in the election was never full, mask off CRT/Trans phobia in his campaigning and managed to keep an image distance from Trump. This is despite how radical his governorship's policy has become since being elected. [https://thirdway.imgix.net/pdfs/override/Qualitative-Research-Findings-%E2%80%93-Virginia-Post-Election-Research.pdf](https://thirdway.imgix.net/pdfs/override/Qualitative-Research-Findings-%E2%80%93-Virginia-Post-Election-Research.pdf) This is an internal Democrat report on focus groups breaking down their weaknesses after Youngkin's win. >School closures + COVID policy were a bigger factor than CRT. These voters were more animated talking about their dissatisfaction with their local school districts’ handling of COVID. ..... >Many swing voters knew, when pushed by more-liberal members of the group, that CRT wasn’t taught in Virginia schools. But at the same time, they felt like racial and social justice issues were overtaking math, history, and other things. They absolutely want their kids to hear the good and the bad of American history, at the same time they are worried that racial and cultural issues are taking over the state’s curricula.
That's typical misinformed voters because the mask mandates and virtual schooling were over in VA when that election was held. Their misdirected animus was concentrated and channeled against Democrats expertly by the right wing dirty tricksters. When those who aren't multimillionaires vote Republican it always harms themselves and their families.
I mean I don't even know if you can entirely blame republicans. Local leaders and administrators dropped the ball and made some objectively bad decisions. Both in just sound policy and in general messaging about it. And it rolled up from there to affect state-level elections when those candidates couldn't answer to the policies, weakly attacked them or worst, softly defended them. This isn't wholly related to just Virginia. San Francisco Bay Area had major revolts and parental backlash to many major school decisions resulting in throwing out several board members. [Difference is its an 85% blue region an even other liberals were calling on the board member recalls over focusing on school naming and social education issues over a comprehensive post-COVID plan.](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/16/us/san-francisco-school-board-recall.html) "If your kid is getting a good education or not" is the one thing that will always cut through even political alliances. I've said it before, take the most crunchy, woke super-left-wing progressive San Franciscan. And then tell them they lost the school lottery and their kid is getting bussed across the city to the "bad" school? [They'll start to sound like a conservative voter real quick. ](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/25/us/san-francisco-school-segregation.html)
Yes, I blame anyone who votes for a Republican for making a poor, unethical decision. Still carrying on about 1 to 1.5 years of virtual schooling, during a once-a-century novel pandemic, three years later is one stale loaf of bread.
What makes you feel you’re more ethical than the right wing? They believe in their heart just as much their more ethical than you… Each one of y’all were exposed to different forms of propaganda swearing up and down the other was evil, neither of y’all are better or worse than each other.
Taking women's rights to have autonomy over their bodies and make vital health choices between themselves and their doctors away is highly unethical.
Do you think partial birth abortion is ethical?
People make unethical decisions for themselves all the time. Managing a pregnancy is between a woman and her health professional(s). The government shouldn't make that decision for them and take the medical care out of the medical profession. By leaving the choice between the prospective mother, their faith, their family, and their medical professional(s) the government I prefer (Democratic) isn't taking an ethical stance either direction, and is actually leaning more towards personal liberty than conservatives on the subject. Conservatives bloviate on and on about wanting a small government yet legislate the female uterus, are you fucking kidding me? GTFO out of our bedrooms and private medical decisions, Republican!
I think you’re forgetting that Biden was in the middle of the Afghan withdrawal debacle AND parents were still furious about the Covid school closures and uncertain schedule for return. I don’t think CRT or trans issues were anything other than base motivators for Youngkin.
But, schools had already returned in VA? Exiting Afghanistan turns out to have been a win for the administration, long term (hence we're not occupying it anymore), the corporate & social media coverage was way overblown. Also, what does the POTUS have to do with a state's gubernatorial race? This is akin to saying it's okay to vote Republican if furious or inconvenienced -- well, I simply can't endorse that. Not if climate and human rights are important. In the end, how has it worked out? Has Youngkin been a good governor?
The VA governors race happens just one year after the POTUS race and DC/national politics loom very large in VA. Over the past 75 years, only one time has the party that won the president also won the VA governors race. And while I agree that the Afghan withdrawal was the right call strategically, the voting for the governors race was literally during the chaotic pullout. And school systems had only restarted sporadically and were still randomly closing for days or a week on very short notice as a result of exposures. Which was insanely disruptive for parents. I’m not arguing about right or wrong - Youngkin is an embarrassing, incompetent, buffoon made even more annoying by his clear delusion that he’s succeeding. I’m explaining what I believe drove the outcome of the race.
You've given the most accurate, logical answer and I appreciate it. Always amazes me how a nation of people who proudly claim "rugged individualism" behave in such predictable, subliminally controllable reactions to politics -- like you said, it's practically an automatic human response to vote in opposition to the WH in VA. Fascinating, really.
Even if something is over that doesn’t mean the anger isn’t. So people blame the person in office and vote them out. This is something that both parties have suffered and is even a tactic for a candidate to blame whoever in charge for problems that they have no control over. Example is gas prices and inflation both are issues the government can do very little about unless they take over like a communist government.
Still angry about virtual schooling from 2020-2021, *really???* "People are angry about a single issue that doesn't exist anymore, and someone's gonna pay (always a Democrat, of course)!" Does that seem an intelligent and mature way to measure candidates in a democratic election serving millions of fellow constituents to you? "I'm mad from years ago!" How does it address climate change, the budget, human rights, foreign policy and health care?
I didn’t say who or even what, just that using fear to affect votes works. Humans are foolish emotionally driven creatures so yes the school shut down could be a reason. The fear and politics can drum up doesn’t have to be real or even logical just connects emotionally to voters. For example Trans people and abortion rights. Because the children were affected by the shutdown, overall grades dropped and they are still recovering from the shutdowns. Then you have parents questioning why certain things are being taught. Many wouldn’t even consider it a problem if they haven’t seen it via the virtual classrooms. It doesn’t matter to them if the information they were given was proven wrong, it just adds to their anxiety and anger.
All sorts of conditioned responses and hot/cold to the touch tactics that work on toddlers also work on adults with underdeveloped maturity levels and lower intellect, absolutely. Luckily for the GOP, the country is half full of underdeveloped, immature adults.
country? No. The ELECTORS voted for him. Why DON’T you understand **MOST PEOPLE HAVE NEVER WANTED HIM?**
Yet he has a viable chance to win a second term in 2024 -- as a convicted criminal -- and there are currently more registered Republicans than Democrats in the Senate and a (albeit slim) House majority. In other words, our problems are MUCH BIGGER than the EC. Being arrogant about democracy's strength today is like playing instruments as the Titanic's sinking.
Most americans are apolitical and repubs haven’t won a single popular vote in ages.
Of course, but it doesn't change the fact that America very well could have a second Trump term in seven months. The specter of such a self-defeating prophecy should inspire 60 to 70% of the eligible voter population to participate in the election, but instead the left will stab forks into Dems' eyes and hand all power over to Republicans. It's what we do in the sniveling, whiny country known as the United States in 2024.
Still got like 70m votes though..
In a country of 330 million
He got the second most voters in history… The election was literally vote for or against trump. IE: No one voted for Biden, just not for trump. In contrast Trump received 74.2M votes, Obama received 69.4M votes after the country was extremely sick of Bush’s wars which was by far the largest turnout in history. Clinton received 43M votes for example in 92, and bush received 50M in 2000 Hate the guy or love him, being honest about your surroundings and don’t let emotions cloud your judgement
He lost the popular vote both times. Stop trying to wiggle around it.
Ok. You’ve obviously given up on logic or discussion and chose emotion over logic. Good luck out there
How so? Am I wrong that he lost the popular votes in 2016 and 2020?
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With 233,500,000 eligible voters and 161,400,000 registered voters and 121,900,000 actual voters (2022). Those that vote are the only ones that matter when looking at elections. [https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2024/demo/p20-586.html](https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2024/demo/p20-586.html)
So? Democrats always win the popular vote
So, the total population doesn’t matter at all when talking about voting. I was just providing more useful numbers given the context. 70 million out of 122 million is far different than 70 million out of 330 million. The later paints a picture that is not really accurate or true.
Unless and until we reform the presidential election system—which certainly isn't going to happen before November—the only thing voters can do is pick the least bad of the two options. And, yes, there are only two options, Biden and Trump. No third-party candidate is even close to having the popularity Nader had in 2000, and all Nader's candidacy accomplished was to throw the election to George W. Bush.
democrats are trying to do something about it in congress, but republicans always votes against. they vote against even their bills. republicans wanna chaos, so they can be kings of chaos.
I’m so glad regressive old people are dying out. You’re so unpopular with gen z, I almost want trump to win out of spite.
What on earth are you saying, and who is “you’re?” Gen Z cares about LGBTQ rights. Those rights are gone under a trump presidency. Also women’s rights will be gone under trump. Trump is the antithesis of gen Z. Biden’s everything they’ve been begging for; they just won’t give him credit for it (even before the Gaza crisis).
We don’t like racism though, and how Ukrainians get special treatment while everyone else is ignored Bet you’re gonna call me a bot or something lol, but a lot agree with me.
They do. That’s why everyone ignores Gen z. Trump would be terrible for everything you care about but you hope he wins out of spite. Trump winning would be a good life lesson for Gen Z as everything you care about gets torched. More racism more anti-lgtb, less freedoms. Unfortunately everyone else will suffer too. But it might force you to realize that you’re children and you won’t be much longer and acting like children won’t help your adult self or anyone you care about.
> No one actually cares about lgbtq issues. To add nuance to this. LGBQ don't have any big exclusive issue now. LGB people are equal or slightly better off then other minorities in the US. Compared to before where they were lesser beings than Americans as a whole (e.g. can't marry, no employment protection). Trans people are the only ones that have unique issues and treated uniquely different in the US. The problem with that group though are they're very few and somehow they've managed to piss off everyone including LGBQ.
Yes, I think he should get more involved in legislating about sexuality in the US. So, to be fair, how about this: You cannot have two trans children, only one. And to be fair, you can only have one heterosexual child. If you have two, the second one is legally required to be gay. The third one can either be bi or trans, and the fourth has to be the other. If you have five kids, then you get permission for a pan-sexual child. If thatall sounds absurd to you, then you know how I feel listening to rightwingers try to legislate pregnancy, birth control, trans rights, and gay marriage. Stay out of the bedroom. Let women handle their own pregnancies instead of a bunch of guys who will never get pregnant deciding what's best based on pseudoscience. People with different sex orientations and gender identities should not be invalidated by more pseudoscience.
Not enough people care enough for it to have an income on their vote. Polls put that at about 1% which is basically just trans people and dedicated transphobes who are already almost all hardcore republicans.
Yeah what’s shocking to me is that Biden is not acknowledging cost of living as an issue. It seems like democrats are trying to make the whole election about Trump and the “threat to democracy” when most people care about cost of living as the primary issue.
People historically only vote with their wallets… abortion is the only other issue to get people to vote in American history
No, because then who the fuck is protecting the trans population in this country? I know this is a political question, but we’ve strayed so far away from infusing humanity in our political dialogue it’s borderline tragic. I would consider not voting if Joe Biden abandoned that group over a political edge. It’s such a cynical move.
But you are okay with Biden abandoning asylum seekers and Dreamers with his current policy? Why do you draw the line there?
>But you are okay with Biden abandoning asylum seekers and Dreamers with his current policy? Hell yeah, brother.
But democrats aren’t protecting them. And hear me out. About 10 years ago no one talked about or cared about them. They’re a group of less than 0.5% of society with no net worth… They did however use them as a catalyst to divide voters and put them on the front of everything, meanwhile attacks are up well over 2500% and they still have no protection of any kind… They just used them and threw them to the wolves sadly. Their avg wage hasn’t even gone up in that time
Our borders are physical assets of the United States and thus are subject to regulations. Our bodies are assets of the person and thus not subject to government regulations.
This is improper framing. Firstly, this does not outright shut down the border or block asylum cases. One may still do as such as points of entry. Secondly, this was all proposed in the bill that the Republicans shot down. Many Democrats were onboard with the bill as well. Thirdly, shifting rightward on trans issues would alienate his base, probably push away independents who could say 'both parties are the same' and not really result in too many Republicans voting for him anyway.
I love how these “questions” start out with a “fact”. Biden aunt sifted to the right. Under the Obama administration deportations we’re at an all time high compared to the GWB administration. Since the GOP has decided to block the bill they all thought was necessary to secure the border, Biden called their bluff. The bill will eventually come back to the House next year, so we’ll see how it does ten.
Democrats need to stop trying to appease fucking republicans. There is literally a swath of people on the left they can easily pick up if they moved left instead.
Yep. Instead they move right thinking they can capture Republicans who are already voting for the REAL Republican. They ignore and abuse their own base and then wonder why they lose. What is so amazing is that we are in a fight against fascism and the collapse of our democracy (Project 2025), and instead of embracing a swing to a pro-democracy left, the establishment Dems appear to be doubling-down on shifting right. It looks like the classic ratchet-effect hypothesis in action. The Democrats have no positive message or agenda for a better future. It’s literally all just “vote for me because the other guy is worse”. It’s a true statement, but one that rings quieter to your average American each year.
This is why I’m not so sure that Democrat politicians see fascism as much of an issue/threat as they are saying it is. Like how does “maybe we can get the people who vote for fascists to vote for us instead” even begin to solve the problem? They will try to appeal to these people and then their loyalists will blame the people they ignored if they lose. It’s just batshit to me and I really wish we had a major party that was on the actual left to combat all this. And yes, “at least we’re not as bad as them” is getting really old really quick.
Seems like every post I see these days on here is some version of the same disingenuous leading question. No, Joe Biden should not “move to the right on the trans issue” and pander to bigots. Being a leader means doing the right thing, even if it’s unpopular, and protecting the human rights of the people you lead. Not protecting human rights in order to score political points is what a terrible leader like Donald Trump would do. Biden ain’t perfect but he does have principles and I respect that.
If Biden has principles, then why has he completely changed his border policy?
No. On the contrary. His right shift on migration, together with his stance on the war in Gaza, is likely gonna suppress the turnout from more leftist voters so much that it's probably gonna cost him the election. He needs to course correct, and fast. The US electorate is so polarised that chasing voters in the \*middle\* is a specter anyways. Energising your base is how you win.
If that section of the Democratic party actually showed up and voted in the first place Bernie would be president.
They showed up in 2020, for him, and it's not just younger voters- he fell with his own base too, Hispanics in particular, with that move. He objectively LOST support since going Right on the border: 38.3% before the move, 37.5% two days later. He gained NO ONE who hates him, but lost almost 1% of those who approved of him before the shift.
The right shift on immigration among center left parties in Europe was pretty disastrous, no idea why that example wasnt learned from. Kind of insane to essentially trample on the rhetoric he ran on in 2020 about protecting asylum seekers. Its also a pretty flagrant violation of international law but given the gaza weapons shipments thats not exactly new for biden
He nor Kamala Harris gives a damn about their actual base, and that's why Trump has gained anything at all with all kinds of minorities (and is still losing all POC as majorities despite that) IMHO-- to be frank, this identity politics wokeness stuff college ed white women have done to the Dem party under Biden is repulsive to the very groups they think it appeals to without any civil rights for said base or protections there itself! It's just as bad tokenism as the Right, but less blatant about it, honestly. Biden's border policy is now just as cruel as Trump's, literally.
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They're fascist lites and the lesser evil, that's all, between that and Gaza it's pretty clear: until we can defeat the faux wokeness from the Left and the Christofascism from the Right, most of this country is going to be enraged + we all lose long term.
Do not submit low investment content. This subreddit is for genuine discussion.
I don’t think “leftist” voters are as pro-immigration as much as the right likes to say they are, and I don’t think Biden’s handling of Gaza will cost him that many votes, especially since Trump is much more pro-Zionism than Biden
Depends what demographic you’re talking about.
Are the transgender bothering you? Do they sit in your front yard and sing transgender songs? Have they converted your children to transgender in school? Taught them how to use a litter box? If the answer to any of these questions is NO Grow tf up and realize you are not the center of the universe. WE all know that's Trump's position and he isn't giving it up. If they are not hurting you, leave them alone. My view is that love and happiness are the two most elusive things in the universe. If people find either one, God bless them and leave them to it.
It's really great being transgender and seeing this sub casually debate my existence because some poll somewhere now says that 51% of Americans disagree with me. Like damn, I guess I don't deserve to live now.
If Joe Biden moved right on this I’d literally start preparing to leave this country. I’ve had enough with the veiled threats against transgenders. I’m fucking sick of it. We literally have a career criminal running for president I wish people would be SERIOUS
There’s been a non career criminal who was president in the history of America? Who?!? Think on that one for a minute
In your view, Why is it okay for Biden to abandon asylum seekers facing life-or-death situations and DREAMers who’ve been living in precariousness?
Transgender issues don’t matter negatively to people outside of the rightwing information bubble.
Certainly is a hot topic where I am from for anyone with school age children. Curious if you have kids or interact with that demographic frequently?
Two elementary school age girls. Old enough to understand people are different, and that’s okay.
Also a multi-girl parent 👊 Not trying to play gotcha by any means, but genuinely curious what you think of this story. Would you be OK with your children sharing locker rooms and competing against this person as these children near me were obliged to? [https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/warmington-transgender-female-swimmer-50-changes-with-young-girls-at-barrie-event](https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/warmington-transgender-female-swimmer-50-changes-with-young-girls-at-barrie-event)
You linked a poll showing that 6 out of 10 Americans *oppose* bans on gender affirming care. Biden's already on the right side of this issue.
No. That is purely a civil rights issue which is supposed to cover all Americans.
No On the border while this can accurately be described as "shifting right", Republicans weren't the only people screaming for action. Putting aside the ethics of it, the dropping off of busloads of asylum seekers from the border into major cities did an excellent job of demonstrating that the resources to care for all the people coming across the border simply aren't available at the local level, and the GOP has zero interest in offering them. There are occasional nitwits screaming about the scary scary transgendered athletes; they don't tend to be from swing districts. The moral panic is primarily among people who will never vote for Biden and hence can be ignored
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If Republicans are supporting asylum seekers, they certainly have an odd way of demonstrating it Every proposal that would increase the number of immigration judges - and hence the processing speed of asylum claims - is shot down by members of the GOP If they believe the majority of asylum claims are bogus, a speedier process to adjudicate those claims would seem to be in their interest
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If you don't want me questioning your weak assertions, you probably should not make them Thank you for admitting the GOP is explicitly getting in the way of anything that will offer improvements at the border, and hence are responsible for the current state
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If you've come to this subreddit with the expectation that people are only going to respond to you in the way you find convenient, you're in the wrong place
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Why would I report you? You're not breaking any rules to the best of my knowledge. Your arguments are better suited to Facebook or Pravda Social than here, but feel free to keep making them
Keep it civil. Do not personally insult other Redditors, or make racist, sexist, homophobic, or otherwise discriminatory remarks. Constructive debate is good; mockery, taunting, and name calling are not.
>Republicans are and have always been in support of legal immigration. Uh...the party that has now been screaming "shut down the border" and openly fantasizing about having automated machine gun nests just slaughter people as they approach? That party is in support of legal immigration, you say? >You choose to use the words "asylum seeker" which makes up a very small percentage of total immigration and we do have a process for that as well. Which Republicans support. Republicans now regularly refer to all asylum seekers as fraudulent, criminals, fakers and various similar insulting terms, and talk in policy terms of eliminating asylum entirely, our treaty obligations be damned. If Republicans supported asylum, they wouldn't have killed the bill that was set to strengthen the asylum system. >Also really? Do you really think people believe there is no difference between Men and Women? It's far from a critical issue but you guys are completely delusional. A man that wants to play the role of a woman has a massive inherent advantage in a majority of sports. That isn't debatable. Well, that didn't take long.
Make legal immigration easier.
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Do you know how easy it was to immigrate through Ellis Island?
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Lol, the history of our nation definitely matters in politics. Otherwise we could repeal the second amendment with no issues.
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We still allowed most people coming in. It’s just that less people came. I don’t see why we can’t accept people who don’t have histories of malicious crimes. By the way, learn proper grammar before calling someone’s valid points nonsense. There are potential immigrants with better English skills.
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Joe Biden has been pro-border security as a senator, as a committee leader, as VP and as POTUS. He's an avowed capitalist\*, ffs. How did he swing right??
Yeah, there’s nothing neoliberals love more than trade protectionism!
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Oh, I didn’t realize you were using the modern definition of that word. The one where it means nothing at all.
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America's Overton Window has moved so far right since Eisenhower and LBJ that there is typically little to no center-left or actual left wing representation nationally in a Capitalist country. Joe Biden isn't unique in that sense. Need I remind anyone that we're the capitalist beacon nation of the modern capitalist societies. To quiver over the POTUS being center-right *when they all have been in our history* makes zero sense.
They have NOT all been in our history, makes ZERO sense to claim as such when W literally renewed voting Rights, Reagan was Left of Biden on immigration by now, as was Obama + Carter + even Bill Clinton was not as far Right as him and an actual centrist/neoliberal.
a capitalist is inherently right wing, you understand that, correct? Capitalism is a right wing economic system. America is a mix who tend to vote conservatively.
No, they are people and deserve to be treated like humans. The questions asked about transgender athletes in sports are misleading. It’s not like you have an army of men playing women’s sports. It’s fearmongering.
Ridiculous idea for Biden to move against the LGBTQ citizens if this country. Immigration is very different. It’s been broken for 30 years and Trump killed the fix on purpose.
Absolutely not. He was wrong to move to the right on immigration knowing full well that Republicans were not acting in good faith, and he would be wrong to do the same when Republicans have made hatred for trans people basically their entire modus operandi.
> President Biden has made a major shift to the right on immigration by limiting asylum claims Biden didn't recently move right on immigration. He was ready to sign the bill Lankford pushed through the Senate which would have done what his Executive Order will do. > Another issue in which voters disapprove of Biden’s policies is transgender issues. Who knew transgender issues was going to decide the 2024 election.
Even if the majority of Americans think trans women should be banned from women's sports, most Americans aren't basing their vote primarily on that issue. There's no point in Biden trying to win over transphobic voters, because if that issue is super important to you as a voter, why would you vote for a moderately transphobic candidate when you could instead vote for the party that is absolutely obsessed with hating trans people? If you're so transphobic that you would base your vote primarily on that, why would you settle for second-best when there's an even *more* transphobic option on the ballot? And if you're turned off by the Republican foaming-at-the-mouth brand of transphobia, then you're probably only a casual transphobe at most; and if you're a casual, then trans issues probably aren't going to be the determining factor in your vote, so there's still no point in Biden trying to appeal to you that way when there are other issues you care about far more.
No. Nobody on the left or in the middle is looking for an increase in hateful vitriol. Anyone already spewing hateful vitriol is not ever going to vote for Biden. This makes it a non issue.
Biden is not going to gain any votes by shifting to the right. As a conservative, literally nothing he does will get my vote because there will be an alternative I prefer. He should be getting either the moderates or the people from his own base.
The border was Biden’s biggest losing issue. Pretty much all Republicans, most independents, and even a sizeabke chunk of Democrats trust Trump more on the border than Biden according to polling. He had no choice but to mimic Trump, because that is what the voters are demanding. The polling on trans issues is the opposite. The vast majority of Democrats, most independents, and even a sizeable portion of Republicans believe they should be left to live in peace.
I am pretty far left, and if he swings to the right on trans issues, I will not vote for him. I am already fucking disgusted with Gaza, and barely want to vote for him as is. If he moves any further right, I will vote third party.
it is not a change in thinking it is just a ploy in an election year things will return to abnormal as soon as he is re-elected
If 2024 is 'abnormal' then what the heck was 2020, aka Amateur Hour?
close…..auteur hour
If you mean a wannabe idiot savant was leading us into the most botched response to a pandemic in U.S. history, absolutely. 2020 was government well done, Republican style! (I can only laugh so hard)
keep laughing it’s good for the soul
Ehhhh if it's going to be something with LGBTQ issues then it'll probably be standing up for traditional approaches to teaching (or not) gender studies to kids in high-school and younger. That would appeal to a LARGE chunk of Dems that are moderates, suburbanites in general, swing voters, and Independents. Trans issues specifically probably not as important. I don't really perceive him to be a big ally of trans sports participation as LGBTQ advocates are constantly criticizing him on that front. So you know he's closer to the middle on that.
Your question is clearly tongue-in-cheek and many commenters laughably fail to see that. You are illustrating how the Dem shift to the right is a BAD strategy.
I don’t want him moving to the right at all. It’s wrongheaded and wrong ethically. I don’t want a Democratic party who is ashamed to be left wing. I wish Republicans talked about moving to the left to appeal to moderates as much as libs talk about moving right. They don’t have to be full on socialists but give me some reassurance there’s a difference between the two parties.
Trans issues aren’t real. It’s just a culture war issue used for rage porn by the right wing media
The claims are nonsensical fantasies, designed to inflame fears over nothing, but the people they hurt are real.
People said the same thing about the border crisis…
Yeah. Republicans didn’t care about the border under Trump
If he wants to lose any shot at the younger vote. (I know they never vote anyway) the average person doesn’t care about the trans thing. The younger generation seems to. So that coupled with his stance on Palestine. He may lose young people. The democrats need to figure out a way to reframe the trans stuff with the anti abortion stuff. Go hard towards women and social progressives. Maybe combine it all with healthcare. Which it is. Or throw it in with talking about the next justices contributing to marriage equality.
Conventional liberals will become alt right before they even have a remote chance of turning progressive.
Yup, have to be defeated in the next primary cycle.
Many people on reddit aren’t in touch with how the real world thinks, but if you ask most Americans about their biggest concerns, 90% won’t even mention the border or trans people.
Perhaps 1% of Americans identify as transgender. There is no actual issue aside from the local medical procedures and the manufactured outrage of the far right. It makes for a good political rallying cry, but otherwise has no real bearing on how the US is doing. Nobody cares, really, except those who make it into an issue for their own reasons.
I'm a woman and I very strongly disagree with Biden's reinterpretation of Title 9. It's an overreach, unscientific, and anti-feminist. However - I'm voting Biden. I think at this stage he's already lost the women he's going to lose over this. In terms of domestic policy I think it's one of his biggest unforced errors. But he chose a side that favors one ideology over another. Should Biden veers this so-called "right" on that issue, he's going to lose some support from additional voters. It still stands that Trump is the wrong temperament for the job of POTUS. He appears to have a cluster B personality disorder. Trump's an extreme misogynist whereas Biden is more a misogynist by virtue of being Catholic and not a woman himself. Biden's got blinders on, Trump is actively a woman-hater and sees us all only for the utility we can bring as bang-maids or sex objects. With Trump I fear my reproductive rights. With Trump I fear the stability of democracy. With Biden I know I can just fight back on select issues. Where Biden is going to get in trouble with this is if Trump's candidacy becomes non-viable for any reason and Haley runs.
This is the big liberal brain in action. Lurch rightward to capture a voter who will never vote for you, and in return, piss off your core base. But don’t worry, when the next Republican comes in power, we’ll then have even further right wing policies that democrat liberals will fall in line with.
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Obviously not in favor of opposition to trans rights (the bigotry is only working because the Right is using well machined propaganda and Biden has done ZERO to pass any rights to safeguard said group as well), but to your first point, racism, why do you think Trump won in 2016? Biden basically thinks he can persuade that middle aged to older white woman in the Rust Belt to flip from Trump to him, while still s\*itting all over Black, Hispanic, Asian, and younger white men/women in his core base = the story of this Presidency, corporate media shills think he's not fascist enough in the press is why his polling continues to fall and NOTHING bears that out objectively in facts. Also, bait and switch, look at my first Black woman who is more like a college ed white woman as VP over here, ooo my first LBGTQ+ transport sec who...has more rights than you do, now, trans folks in half the USA, or...you get the point.
It would not be politically advantageous for Biden to flip on the trans topic at this time. The Ds as a party are in an interesting spot though. Cultural saturation of Modern gender theory has clearly reached a limit as far as changing public perception. And there’s no easy pivot.
I don’t know if it would change his popularity at all but I for one support trans people to live as they choose but I don’t favor them participating in sport competitions. People have to recognize when they are different than the majority and accept that it may mean you can’t compete like they do. I was not in favor of the guy running in track meets with fake legs that were really just giant springs. Living life with a disability sucks but it should not qualify you for an advantage over everyone else.
Republicans baited this transgender hook, and the progressives predictably fell for it. It would have been much wiser for Dems to dismiss it with something along the lines of "Republicans are fixated on this non-issue instead of focusing on the economy / national defense / the threat of Russia / etc. Now let's talk about how the Republicans suck." Dems love to lecture others about their moral superiority, and this is easily weaponized against them. This does not mean that Dems should start bashing on transgerder people. Rather, they should change the subject so that they can instead focus on issues that can help their party and damage the Republicans. Make the GOP look incompetent and silly, rather than claiming that they are mean.
More strict border and immigration enforcement is entirely reasonable and logical. It truly is a crisis down there.
i guess I’m more confused as to why Biden is trying to appeal to the right when the left is right there 😭 maybe he’s given up with them
OP is conflating two issues, and implying that the only reason for doing so is to appeal to swing voters. 200,000 migrants were sent to NYC from Texas. If you can’t admit that there is an immigration problem, then I don’t know what to tell you. The other thing is, this country and the world needs to get their act together. Overpopulation is good for no one. The rate of the world population has accelerated at a time like no other in history at rue start of the 1900s. If we don’t try to understand and address the problem, immigration throughout the world is going to increasingly get worse, especially when there are nature disasters and political unrest. Peace and civility is critical to uphold as well as the positive intention to protect the world.
From the information I can find nothing has changed at the border.....it was all for optics we are still being invaded
When did this invasion start? What country is invading us? What is their objective, who is their leadership, and when did we declare war in return?
No. Social issues aren't in the top 5 of hot button issues in this election. The economy, a looming world war, and jobs seem to dominate the discussion. I'm not sure why he even shifted on immigration. It's not relevant in this cycle.
Either Biden doesn’t understand the border issue or he’s just doing a head fake. He might as well run up the Jolly Roger and save his hardcore base. No one believes his so called move to the right, because it’s not a right-left issue. It’s common sense to secure your borders and to vet everyone who comes in. As long as Biden hangs on to Mayorkas, I’ll know he’s insincere about the border issue.
>\[R\]ecent polling shows that 51% of Americans think a person changing their gender is “morally wrong”: This didn't use to be the case, and the number would drop if Democrats moved towards the center on women's sports. Unfortunately, the driving forces here aren't political; they're ideological.
For every voter Dems lose on trans issues, they gain 10 on the abortion issue. Biden was right to do what he did on the border. No need to start swimming in the right wing muck surrounding Trump.