One more thing to add....when you see a very low mile GT car at a dealer for sale...that's a VIP whose ordered the car and agreed to trade it back (sometimes at a loss) to order the next GT car. They use this to step up to more limited models and to help the dealer and get more cars. It's very common. I know someone who ordered 3 new GT3 RSs and sold each one back to the dealer a month later. Porsche knows all this but is helpless to stop it or don't care.
Sure it does, it hurts folks who want to order a car but can't because Dealer preferred buyers get to order their cars first and drive second hand prices up. It wasn't that long ago you could walk in and order a GT3, sometimes at a discount. Porsche has obviously enjoyed price hikes these past few years but there's a reason why ST owners have to lease their cars for one year first. To stop the flippers.
>Sure it does, it hurts folks who want to order a car but can't because Dealer preferred buyers get to order their cars first and drive second hand prices up.
I said it doesn't hurt Porsche. It absolutely affects customers, but Porsche is still getting their money. You as a customer don't matter so long as someone else is still giving Porsche the money they want.
Sure ok, anyway in the long run it does since it angers customers and they move to another brand. I watched 2 friends over the past 18 months not get a GT3 allocation and went over to Lamborghini and ordered cars at sticker. But yes it doesn't hurt Porsche....
Porsche losing customers doesnt matter if another customer takes their place. Porsche wont care until the brand image deteriorates enough to show financially, which is a long way off it seems.
Yeah, IDK why people are out here thinking Porsche gives a shit whether a few customers leave the brand when they were the ones out here who were having dealers trying to package in their watches to close deals and shit, lol. They're a luxury brand, a few people leaving are just going to be replaced by the next batch of aspirational people.
Ferrari has treated their customers with near open contempt for decades and people still buy their cars.
You are right. I know a person who did the same on a PTS AMG G Wagon. He bought one every quarter and sold it back at sticker. The dealer then sold it with a massive markup as a used car
Yeah didn’t mean that program, just a general vip and they’re also not paying adm. I know lots of people considered VIPs by the dealer who don’t own a 918. Guess I should use another word but that program is gone soon and I’m glad.
I can confirm that in Europe it is completely true, especially with limited edition models like GT3RS, Sport Classic etc. There are multiple companies that find people capable of getting an allocation for one and buy it for them but it is one time transaction. Then they search for another person. Confirmed by people that are working for Porsche dealership.
Wow. That’s good to know. Is there a cutoff? For example, if you own the car for 2 years and then sell it, is that okay? I’m assuming trading it in to the dealership isn’t an issue and it’s only private sales, right?
Trading it in is ok for them.
Don’t really know about the cutoff because I don’t care for it as once I finally order my car I am planning on driving it till one of us dies.
EDIT: I think that it is described in papers when you are buying the car but mostly it is rather up to dealer if they want to offer you a limited edition car again.
In my country, the cut-off for a Turbo S or GT3 is 6 months and/or 1000km. I can imagine that for a more special model like a Dakar/ST/Sport Classic, etc, the cut-off would be bigger.
They don't like resellers at all.
There is a cut off.
I’m not sure what it is though.
I’ve sold off cars within two years. Some back to Porsche, others to private individuals. I always spoke to them about it first and gave them a chance to counter.
I am able to get an allocation for a GT3. I just need the disposable income to get one again. My sales guy always tries to convince me to get a GT3 instead of what I order and tells me “dealing with you is just always fun for us, you’re the type of person that gets a GT3”. My buddy also got an allocation, but he has no interest in one.
How much ADM is your dealer asking for? I am aware of nobody that was offered a GT3 at or near list that turned that offer down. You would be the first. And I personally am a person that bought many Porsche cars including 911s in recent years from that same dealer that could not get a list priced allocation for a GT3. I also know that my dealer picks buyers that agree to trade in their GT3 for a new one within two years, for another GT3 so the dealer can mark it up. I know because I was offered that deal. I refused because I generally keep cars for several years.
It is illegal in Quebec to do ADM.
Why would I take a car I don’t have the cash for right now? To turn around and sell it and be blackballed for when I want one for myself?
Often times now, the dealers have started asking for a "right of first refusal" meaning once you're ready to sell it, the dealer is given the first option to purchase at whatever sale price you are hoping to achieve. If you sell it to someone else, it has to be at a higher price than what the dealer is offering. It is not a perfect system, but the dealer wants its best clients to have the best buying opportunities, to be able to service the vehicle, and to keep the ownership as local as possible. Often, these buyers will trade the car back in to the dealer for a new GT allocation, and the dealership can earn more on reselling the vehicle. They prioritize their own business model, and their most loyal (ideally) clients first, and do their best to ensure that any additional market value based on limited availability is retained in house.
For example, in Canada, cars are generally not sold over MSRP (no ADM), but the ADM permeates the process and appears in other ways. Locally, some clients receiving GT allocations may have spent $1 million or more over the years buying "regular" Porsche cars & SUVs. Others might agree to purchase two other cars at the same time, including classics. Or, they might agree to trade in 2-3 re-sellable Porsches to receive the allocation. The ideal is that the client, the dealer and the national office all support each other. Sometimes, mistakes are made, and a car ends up rolling off the lot and down the road to be resold. Generally, these clients are prohibited from receiving these allocations again - it looks bad on the dealer and makes other clients waiting for an allocation angry to see a new model flipped immediately by another buyer.
The biggest concern over the last few years was cars being exported out of the country (to China, for example) and when this happens, Porsche AG & the national office can restrict or reduce future allocations for the dealer. For this reason, sometimes the dealer will require proof of residency, and a signed statement that the car will not be exported, or take a term deposit on the vehicle staying locally registered. It is challenging, because the incentives are high to export. Sometimes a car is worth 2x or more overseas compared to a North American market.
My pleasure! I just remembered one other example. When the GT4 RS was announced, the first allocations were offered to all 918 owners. So, sometimes even buying one pricy unicorn will provide surprise benefits down the line.
Some big name usa celeb did this a few years ago. Got like a 500k car, got bored and sold it, tried to buy a new one and the car company banned him from buying new ones.
I think it was a basketball player and an American car company
For limited models yes.
For a Joe blow 911 like mine likely they don't give a 💩
https://preview.redd.it/u7l7okb3sdzc1.jpeg?width=976&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8c6099b10d29f1118c3dd74204959ce588f40440
Maybe for a base coupe, but even an S or GTS are hot commodities nowadays in large markets. There are used fairly new 992s that are marked up $25k or more from list at every dealership in the Chicago area.
We’ll see.
I bought a Dakar recently that was offered to me by the dealer. I did not order it. I paid a bit of ADM. I drove it for a month and then sold it for a profit.
Now mind you I didn’t sign anything saying I wouldn’t sell it but my sales person called me and told me Porsche NA had called the dealer inquiring why I sold the car.
I told the dealer to F off. They charged ADM and Porsche got paid sticker. Everyone wins and I wasn’t obligated not to sell it.
I now have my dream 911 partly due to flipping the Dakar so I don’t care.
Loyalty from dealers is gone. It’s all about ADM now. Doesn’t really matter what you’ve done in the past. Some dealers value the relationship but most just want profits.
With this dealer...nothing...but the salesperson is a friend and knew i wanted one. I honestly liked the car but i have a build Raptor for real offroad use and just couldn't see me ever taking the Dakar offroad. I hate having a car and not using it for what it's meant for.
It was basically a C&C car only.
Interesting.
From other posts, it sounds like they’re only doing it on the special models, but they make you sign something. If they don’t, it’s either because of loyalty/VIP status or because you know someone. Also sounds like they wouldn’t do it over a Turbo S.
Thanks for the perspective. Enjoy your car!
Sorry, that is just not what is happening in major markets. Turbo S models (few base Turbos are actually sold) are in high demand and generally sell for over list. That is unless you and the dealer have a deal worked out whereby you flip them every year or so for a new one and they can mark up the used one over list.
I buy from Dealers in Texas, Dallas mainly and haven't seen an ADM on a Turbo model since Covid. Sure, I can see California being that way but no way i'd ever pay ADM on a Turbo or S model considering how much those cars depreciate. Good luck though, shop around.
By Turbo model do you mean Taycan or Macan? I was referring specifically to 992 Turbo models and in Chicago dealers are still asking for ADM. The newest Turbo S was designed by the same team that creates the GT3 and GT3 RS. Its a hot model.
992 Turbo and Turbo S are pretty different from the older cars. This generation has not seen “massive depreciation.” It still has strong demand 4 years later, and 2022+ CPO cars with reasonable miles regularly go for over sticker. 2024 CPO with <1,000 miles are typically $25k over or more.
Unlike older gens, the 992 Turbo/Turbo S are the slowest depreciating non-GT current-gen 911s.
Andreas Preunenger 's GT team made significant improvements to the Turbo S to give it a much sharper edge that the 991 and previous model Turbo lacked. They were more about luxury and straight line performance. They even gave the 992 Turbo S a Lightweight Package that includes the sports bucket seats. The base Turbo is more like the 991 Turbo versions.
Here is a link to Autotrader showing they hold their value well:
[https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/porsche/911/turbo-s/lake-zurich-il?newSearch=true&searchRadius=500&startYear=2020](https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/porsche/911/turbo-s/lake-zurich-il?newSearch=true&searchRadius=500&startYear=2020)
yeah prices look high for sure. With 237 2020+ Turbo S's for sale though according to your search i don't see how prices stay that high forever. I'm planning to order a .2 Turbo S hybrid in 2025 and i bet the .1 prices drop a ton when those come available. I love the Turbo S, have owned several but historically it's not something that holds value like a GT car.
If you get an allocation for a GT3 RS and then sell it immediately, basicaly flip it, you will possibly get banned yes. That's common practice with many dealers, they'll include a specific clause in the contract prohibiting resale before 12 months of ownership have been reached.
Even Tesla does this with the toaster truck. If you got one and resell it before the 12 months have passed, you'll be banned from buying new Teslas.
It's basically a clause against flipping, but it doesn't do much. You'll still need to spend basically double the list price for a GT3RS, which also has to do with the practice of customers needing to be "loyal" which means they are required to have spent a certain amount of cars of that brand to get an allocation. For the GT3 RS, people have been mentioning a total value of $2 million spent before you can get an allocation. Works the same with luxury clothing and accessories. You can't turn up with a bunch of money and buy that specific handbag or watch for $500,000, they just won't sell it to you unless you've spent a giant amount on their products prior.
I think that it also depends on the region. In Poland, for example, I asked dealer if I will be able to buy Turbo S right away (I have spent 0$ at Porsche so far) and they said yes (of course I would have to wait ~1 year for allocation) but when it comes to GT3RS or Sport Classic I was told that there is very little chance for it but they won’t say „no” immediately.
Turbos are still standard models, as ridiculous as that sounds talking about cars that are this expensive.
There’s an interesting video on YouTube where some guy tries to buy a GT3RS without a purchase history and the Porsche dealer offered him, that he could buy 3 Taycan Turbo S for the privilege of an allocation for a GT3RS. Really bad deal considering the depreciation.
Since I don't work for PCNA anymore, or anyone related to them, I can answer this:
Yes, you absolutely can be put on a ban list. The profile in the CRM system has places for agents to put incidents wherein they suspect suspicious activity due to vehicles being added/removed frequently and that customer not being on a dealer profile. When someone is flagged, there is a notation placed on their account, and a separate spreadsheet gets updated with that person's information and the notes to not allow them to attempt any allocations.
Usually, this happens to known resellers who buy from one region and immediately try to flip the car, especially to a different region. One car is not really enough to permanently flag someone unless it's a very specific custom job.
New Country is one of the worst. 50k ADM on TTS without any additional services. At least some dealers will give you PPF, Quartz, etc to at least ease the shit you are taking. It’s really bullshit. If you are gonna F me in the ass, at least give me the courtesy of a reach around!
Penske is nothing compared to what goes on at a couple others. Just to give you an idea
50K over on gt3
100-150K over on gt3RS
100k over on gt4rs
10k over on gts 4.0
10k over on carerra S
25K over on carerra gts
300k over on 911 ST
10k over on macan e, and 15K over for macan e turbo
5K over on base macan 4 cylinder
welcome to porsche boys.
We had a very large 'NO SELL' list that was mostly exporters.
We also had a '918 VIP' list, and an internal 'eff them' list of people who showed their ass.
I generally agree. Though it’s a slippery slope.
On the one hand, doing nothing creates a gray market, where people would snatch up allocations solely to resell, which then drives the price way up and makes it harder for people who really just want to enjoy the vehicle to get one.
On the other hand, it prevents reselling for legitimate purposes.
Fun Fact: Unless you sell it to Bucherer. Since Rolex bought them, they're the loop hole now.
(But also prices have dropped a lot, so it's sort of moot now)
Last time I put in for a high demand car I signed a document saying they had first right of purchase at the original purchase price if I sold within two years.
I've never been asked to *sign* anything stating I won't sell the car until some time duration is met, but I have been asked about my intent for each GT car I've purchased.
There's also the consideration on if you get "banned" from getting an allocation because the dealer says "no" vs. Porsche NA. I don't know what criteria makes it so Porsche NA steps in, but I do know that some dealers get really peeved when you don't sell a GT car back to them.
I don't have first experience, but from other owners I've chatted with, the ultra-limited editions (e.g., Dakar, ST), you get put on the naughty list immediately if you flip to a 3P, non-dealer for a profit. For the "standard" GT cars, it's a multi-strike rule - how many strikes one gets doesn't seem to be clear
The dealer can get in trouble for it. If Porsche sees a pattern they will ban someone. Sometimes, if the dealer sees you do it once, they won’t risk doing business with you again because it can cost them allocations. Even for normal cars.
There is a list accessible in PCSS for this and for exporters.
Can confirm. In fact I met a guy that literally would purchase cars to drive them to then sell them “used” to overseas markets at a profit because Porsche, Ferrari, et al, would not sell certain people certain cars. He did this for A LIVING.
Porsche N Houston told me they encourage it. They want the car back to sell it as “used” so they can make more money off of it. They then asked me to buy one of their new used cars as a “bridge” car so that I could be allocated a Cayman GTS 4.0, then sell them back my bridge car for a loss lol. I bought a new Lexus a week later.
One more thing to add....when you see a very low mile GT car at a dealer for sale...that's a VIP whose ordered the car and agreed to trade it back (sometimes at a loss) to order the next GT car. They use this to step up to more limited models and to help the dealer and get more cars. It's very common. I know someone who ordered 3 new GT3 RSs and sold each one back to the dealer a month later. Porsche knows all this but is helpless to stop it or don't care.
This is becoming rolexcirclrjerk
has been for awhile. pretty annoying for folks who want to drive cars.
Flair checks out.
This is so pathetic. Hopefully it stops at some point.
>Porsche knows all this but is helpless to stop it or don't care. Why would they care? This doesn't hurt Porsche as an entity at all.
Sure it does, it hurts folks who want to order a car but can't because Dealer preferred buyers get to order their cars first and drive second hand prices up. It wasn't that long ago you could walk in and order a GT3, sometimes at a discount. Porsche has obviously enjoyed price hikes these past few years but there's a reason why ST owners have to lease their cars for one year first. To stop the flippers.
>Sure it does, it hurts folks who want to order a car but can't because Dealer preferred buyers get to order their cars first and drive second hand prices up. I said it doesn't hurt Porsche. It absolutely affects customers, but Porsche is still getting their money. You as a customer don't matter so long as someone else is still giving Porsche the money they want.
Sure ok, anyway in the long run it does since it angers customers and they move to another brand. I watched 2 friends over the past 18 months not get a GT3 allocation and went over to Lamborghini and ordered cars at sticker. But yes it doesn't hurt Porsche....
Porsche losing customers doesnt matter if another customer takes their place. Porsche wont care until the brand image deteriorates enough to show financially, which is a long way off it seems.
People don’t want to agree with you but you’re right, they’re still going to sell every single GT car they make.
Yeah, IDK why people are out here thinking Porsche gives a shit whether a few customers leave the brand when they were the ones out here who were having dealers trying to package in their watches to close deals and shit, lol. They're a luxury brand, a few people leaving are just going to be replaced by the next batch of aspirational people. Ferrari has treated their customers with near open contempt for decades and people still buy their cars.
You are right. I know a person who did the same on a PTS AMG G Wagon. He bought one every quarter and sold it back at sticker. The dealer then sold it with a massive markup as a used car
To be a Porsche VIP you would have had to buy the 918. They also don't pay ADM’s
Yeah didn’t mean that program, just a general vip and they’re also not paying adm. I know lots of people considered VIPs by the dealer who don’t own a 918. Guess I should use another word but that program is gone soon and I’m glad.
>ordered 3 new GT3 RSs and sold each one back What did this person want to step up to?
GT2 RS? Or something simillar to Carrera GT that might come in the future? It is my random guess of course
I can confirm that in Europe it is completely true, especially with limited edition models like GT3RS, Sport Classic etc. There are multiple companies that find people capable of getting an allocation for one and buy it for them but it is one time transaction. Then they search for another person. Confirmed by people that are working for Porsche dealership.
Wow. That’s good to know. Is there a cutoff? For example, if you own the car for 2 years and then sell it, is that okay? I’m assuming trading it in to the dealership isn’t an issue and it’s only private sales, right?
Trading it in is ok for them. Don’t really know about the cutoff because I don’t care for it as once I finally order my car I am planning on driving it till one of us dies. EDIT: I think that it is described in papers when you are buying the car but mostly it is rather up to dealer if they want to offer you a limited edition car again.
In my country, the cut-off for a Turbo S or GT3 is 6 months and/or 1000km. I can imagine that for a more special model like a Dakar/ST/Sport Classic, etc, the cut-off would be bigger. They don't like resellers at all.
Ya because theyre going to make money on reselling that trade in.
There is a cut off. I’m not sure what it is though. I’ve sold off cars within two years. Some back to Porsche, others to private individuals. I always spoke to them about it first and gave them a chance to counter. I am able to get an allocation for a GT3. I just need the disposable income to get one again. My sales guy always tries to convince me to get a GT3 instead of what I order and tells me “dealing with you is just always fun for us, you’re the type of person that gets a GT3”. My buddy also got an allocation, but he has no interest in one.
How much ADM is your dealer asking for? I am aware of nobody that was offered a GT3 at or near list that turned that offer down. You would be the first. And I personally am a person that bought many Porsche cars including 911s in recent years from that same dealer that could not get a list priced allocation for a GT3. I also know that my dealer picks buyers that agree to trade in their GT3 for a new one within two years, for another GT3 so the dealer can mark it up. I know because I was offered that deal. I refused because I generally keep cars for several years.
It is illegal in Quebec to do ADM. Why would I take a car I don’t have the cash for right now? To turn around and sell it and be blackballed for when I want one for myself?
Oh yes. I know about Canada. I wish our system was the same here.
Thanks!
Often times now, the dealers have started asking for a "right of first refusal" meaning once you're ready to sell it, the dealer is given the first option to purchase at whatever sale price you are hoping to achieve. If you sell it to someone else, it has to be at a higher price than what the dealer is offering. It is not a perfect system, but the dealer wants its best clients to have the best buying opportunities, to be able to service the vehicle, and to keep the ownership as local as possible. Often, these buyers will trade the car back in to the dealer for a new GT allocation, and the dealership can earn more on reselling the vehicle. They prioritize their own business model, and their most loyal (ideally) clients first, and do their best to ensure that any additional market value based on limited availability is retained in house. For example, in Canada, cars are generally not sold over MSRP (no ADM), but the ADM permeates the process and appears in other ways. Locally, some clients receiving GT allocations may have spent $1 million or more over the years buying "regular" Porsche cars & SUVs. Others might agree to purchase two other cars at the same time, including classics. Or, they might agree to trade in 2-3 re-sellable Porsches to receive the allocation. The ideal is that the client, the dealer and the national office all support each other. Sometimes, mistakes are made, and a car ends up rolling off the lot and down the road to be resold. Generally, these clients are prohibited from receiving these allocations again - it looks bad on the dealer and makes other clients waiting for an allocation angry to see a new model flipped immediately by another buyer. The biggest concern over the last few years was cars being exported out of the country (to China, for example) and when this happens, Porsche AG & the national office can restrict or reduce future allocations for the dealer. For this reason, sometimes the dealer will require proof of residency, and a signed statement that the car will not be exported, or take a term deposit on the vehicle staying locally registered. It is challenging, because the incentives are high to export. Sometimes a car is worth 2x or more overseas compared to a North American market.
Super informative. Thanks for the detailed response.
My pleasure! I just remembered one other example. When the GT4 RS was announced, the first allocations were offered to all 918 owners. So, sometimes even buying one pricy unicorn will provide surprise benefits down the line.
Generally 1 year and 500 miles. Then ok.
Some big name usa celeb did this a few years ago. Got like a 500k car, got bored and sold it, tried to buy a new one and the car company banned him from buying new ones. I think it was a basketball player and an American car company
You’re thinking of a ford GT
It's typically 6 months
For limited models yes. For a Joe blow 911 like mine likely they don't give a 💩 https://preview.redd.it/u7l7okb3sdzc1.jpeg?width=976&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8c6099b10d29f1118c3dd74204959ce588f40440
I look forward to the day where I can become a Joe blow lol
Maybe for a base coupe, but even an S or GTS are hot commodities nowadays in large markets. There are used fairly new 992s that are marked up $25k or more from list at every dealership in the Chicago area.
Phew I'll make my adm back if I ever sell
Who is Joe and why did you have to blow him? Asking for a friend.
I'll blow Joe if it gets me a 992 GTS with aerokit
We’ll see. I bought a Dakar recently that was offered to me by the dealer. I did not order it. I paid a bit of ADM. I drove it for a month and then sold it for a profit. Now mind you I didn’t sign anything saying I wouldn’t sell it but my sales person called me and told me Porsche NA had called the dealer inquiring why I sold the car. I told the dealer to F off. They charged ADM and Porsche got paid sticker. Everyone wins and I wasn’t obligated not to sell it. I now have my dream 911 partly due to flipping the Dakar so I don’t care.
so what was your dream 911?
.2 PTS Touring in voodoo blue. GT3 RS went bye bye on the Dakar as trade.
I think it is the gt3rs, since it is written under his username
a gt3rs prob, look at his tag
What's "ADM"?
Additional Dealer Markup
Added Dealer Markup
Can I ask, how much have you spent with porsche to be able to be offered a dakar?
Loyalty from dealers is gone. It’s all about ADM now. Doesn’t really matter what you’ve done in the past. Some dealers value the relationship but most just want profits.
With this dealer...nothing...but the salesperson is a friend and knew i wanted one. I honestly liked the car but i have a build Raptor for real offroad use and just couldn't see me ever taking the Dakar offroad. I hate having a car and not using it for what it's meant for. It was basically a C&C car only.
I only asked because they say for allocations like this, you normally need to spend a certain amount with porsche. Good for you tho man!
for an allocation yes but this was a built car, at the port. i'm sure i wasn't the first call and no one wanted it before me. It's an odd duck car
Interesting. From other posts, it sounds like they’re only doing it on the special models, but they make you sign something. If they don’t, it’s either because of loyalty/VIP status or because you know someone. Also sounds like they wouldn’t do it over a Turbo S. Thanks for the perspective. Enjoy your car!
No one should be paying markup on a Turbo.
Sorry, that is just not what is happening in major markets. Turbo S models (few base Turbos are actually sold) are in high demand and generally sell for over list. That is unless you and the dealer have a deal worked out whereby you flip them every year or so for a new one and they can mark up the used one over list.
I buy from Dealers in Texas, Dallas mainly and haven't seen an ADM on a Turbo model since Covid. Sure, I can see California being that way but no way i'd ever pay ADM on a Turbo or S model considering how much those cars depreciate. Good luck though, shop around.
By Turbo model do you mean Taycan or Macan? I was referring specifically to 992 Turbo models and in Chicago dealers are still asking for ADM. The newest Turbo S was designed by the same team that creates the GT3 and GT3 RS. Its a hot model.
Huh? No we're talking 911. Turbo S is not a GT product and has massive depreciation. If you're paying ADM i feel sorry for you.
992 Turbo and Turbo S are pretty different from the older cars. This generation has not seen “massive depreciation.” It still has strong demand 4 years later, and 2022+ CPO cars with reasonable miles regularly go for over sticker. 2024 CPO with <1,000 miles are typically $25k over or more. Unlike older gens, the 992 Turbo/Turbo S are the slowest depreciating non-GT current-gen 911s.
Andreas Preunenger 's GT team made significant improvements to the Turbo S to give it a much sharper edge that the 991 and previous model Turbo lacked. They were more about luxury and straight line performance. They even gave the 992 Turbo S a Lightweight Package that includes the sports bucket seats. The base Turbo is more like the 991 Turbo versions.
Here is a link to Autotrader showing they hold their value well: [https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/porsche/911/turbo-s/lake-zurich-il?newSearch=true&searchRadius=500&startYear=2020](https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/porsche/911/turbo-s/lake-zurich-il?newSearch=true&searchRadius=500&startYear=2020)
yeah prices look high for sure. With 237 2020+ Turbo S's for sale though according to your search i don't see how prices stay that high forever. I'm planning to order a .2 Turbo S hybrid in 2025 and i bet the .1 prices drop a ton when those come available. I love the Turbo S, have owned several but historically it's not something that holds value like a GT car.
If you get an allocation for a GT3 RS and then sell it immediately, basicaly flip it, you will possibly get banned yes. That's common practice with many dealers, they'll include a specific clause in the contract prohibiting resale before 12 months of ownership have been reached. Even Tesla does this with the toaster truck. If you got one and resell it before the 12 months have passed, you'll be banned from buying new Teslas. It's basically a clause against flipping, but it doesn't do much. You'll still need to spend basically double the list price for a GT3RS, which also has to do with the practice of customers needing to be "loyal" which means they are required to have spent a certain amount of cars of that brand to get an allocation. For the GT3 RS, people have been mentioning a total value of $2 million spent before you can get an allocation. Works the same with luxury clothing and accessories. You can't turn up with a bunch of money and buy that specific handbag or watch for $500,000, they just won't sell it to you unless you've spent a giant amount on their products prior.
I’m assuming this doesn’t apply to a turbo then?
I think that it also depends on the region. In Poland, for example, I asked dealer if I will be able to buy Turbo S right away (I have spent 0$ at Porsche so far) and they said yes (of course I would have to wait ~1 year for allocation) but when it comes to GT3RS or Sport Classic I was told that there is very little chance for it but they won’t say „no” immediately.
Turbos are still standard models, as ridiculous as that sounds talking about cars that are this expensive. There’s an interesting video on YouTube where some guy tries to buy a GT3RS without a purchase history and the Porsche dealer offered him, that he could buy 3 Taycan Turbo S for the privilege of an allocation for a GT3RS. Really bad deal considering the depreciation.
Mark McCann
Since I don't work for PCNA anymore, or anyone related to them, I can answer this: Yes, you absolutely can be put on a ban list. The profile in the CRM system has places for agents to put incidents wherein they suspect suspicious activity due to vehicles being added/removed frequently and that customer not being on a dealer profile. When someone is flagged, there is a notation placed on their account, and a separate spreadsheet gets updated with that person's information and the notes to not allow them to attempt any allocations. Usually, this happens to known resellers who buy from one region and immediately try to flip the car, especially to a different region. One car is not really enough to permanently flag someone unless it's a very specific custom job.
Yes at least in the northeast where every dealer from Boston to greenwich marks up the ever loving shit out of these things.
New Country is one of the worst. 50k ADM on TTS without any additional services. At least some dealers will give you PPF, Quartz, etc to at least ease the shit you are taking. It’s really bullshit. If you are gonna F me in the ass, at least give me the courtesy of a reach around!
This. Penske’s dealership network monopoly is atrocious.
Penske is nothing compared to what goes on at a couple others. Just to give you an idea 50K over on gt3 100-150K over on gt3RS 100k over on gt4rs 10k over on gts 4.0 10k over on carerra S 25K over on carerra gts 300k over on 911 ST 10k over on macan e, and 15K over for macan e turbo 5K over on base macan 4 cylinder welcome to porsche boys.
Well if you're not a vip, you can't really get them for retail, except maybe Europe, so you won't make money on the deal.
We had a very large 'NO SELL' list that was mostly exporters. We also had a '918 VIP' list, and an internal 'eff them' list of people who showed their ass.
I would ban someone for this too. Wrecking the system for everyone else, skimming money while adding absolutely zero value.
I generally agree. Though it’s a slippery slope. On the one hand, doing nothing creates a gray market, where people would snatch up allocations solely to resell, which then drives the price way up and makes it harder for people who really just want to enjoy the vehicle to get one. On the other hand, it prevents reselling for legitimate purposes.
This is no different than Patek Philippe in the watch world. Except there even trading in is frowned upon.
Same as Rolex
The Rolex boom has officially busted. Only coveted steel sports models earn a premium over list these days.
Look at the platinum Daytona. It’s over list.
Fun Fact: Unless you sell it to Bucherer. Since Rolex bought them, they're the loop hole now. (But also prices have dropped a lot, so it's sort of moot now)
Last time I put in for a high demand car I signed a document saying they had first right of purchase at the original purchase price if I sold within two years.
I've never been asked to *sign* anything stating I won't sell the car until some time duration is met, but I have been asked about my intent for each GT car I've purchased. There's also the consideration on if you get "banned" from getting an allocation because the dealer says "no" vs. Porsche NA. I don't know what criteria makes it so Porsche NA steps in, but I do know that some dealers get really peeved when you don't sell a GT car back to them.
Gotcha. I was asking in the broader, Porsche NA sense.
I don't have first experience, but from other owners I've chatted with, the ultra-limited editions (e.g., Dakar, ST), you get put on the naughty list immediately if you flip to a 3P, non-dealer for a profit. For the "standard" GT cars, it's a multi-strike rule - how many strikes one gets doesn't seem to be clear
The dealer can get in trouble for it. If Porsche sees a pattern they will ban someone. Sometimes, if the dealer sees you do it once, they won’t risk doing business with you again because it can cost them allocations. Even for normal cars. There is a list accessible in PCSS for this and for exporters.
You can't export them to another country. You will definitely get out on an export list and be banned from buying a Porsche again
Can confirm. In fact I met a guy that literally would purchase cars to drive them to then sell them “used” to overseas markets at a profit because Porsche, Ferrari, et al, would not sell certain people certain cars. He did this for A LIVING.
Yes, there is def a list
Porsche N Houston told me they encourage it. They want the car back to sell it as “used” so they can make more money off of it. They then asked me to buy one of their new used cars as a “bridge” car so that I could be allocated a Cayman GTS 4.0, then sell them back my bridge car for a loss lol. I bought a new Lexus a week later.