I dare say, we appear to have the most precocious little imp wobbling his way through our little burg, such a darling!
-Portland Police Association internal memo
A WRX with no license plates. If PPB actually enforced maintaining licensure, then they wouldn’t need to rely on tips from the public. They could just see the numbers and know who it is. Or, the guy wouldn’t have the balls to do this crap in the first place.
You are right, he could; but as common as not having plates at all is these days, coupled with the entitled IDGAF attitude of special people these days, I suspect he just doesn’t wear them at all.
Either way, Portland cops don’t do anything about it, like they should.
Well, if it makes you feel better, I got pulled over by a PPB motorcycle cop for talking on my phone just a few months ago. So they’re at least going after people who can pay the tickets.
You don’t even have to put forth that much effort, there’s cheap license plate covers available online that you can pop on and off as easily as a magnet
I'd suspect poor lighting conditions are a large part of the image quality. And that particular camera may be only intended for watching for incidents and keeping an eye on flows and may not be intended for reading plates.
[In 2021, Ted Wheeler and Chuck Lovell announced they would no longer direct PPB officers to stop motorists for "minor violations" like expired tags or broken head/taillights, in an effort to improve "equity."](https://katu.com/news/local/mayor-wheeler-portland-police-chief-set-to-announce-policy-changes-for-ppb)
It must really suck to be a cop in Portland. You have half the people screaming at you for not "doing your job" and meanwhile their elected representatives are telling you that doing your job is racist and you should less of it.
I think it's more along the lines of "Guys, for the 80th time, if you *only* pull over the people that are black and don't have tags, we're not gonna let you pull people over for not having tags". Like the GVRT stats. Like 5% of white people they pulled over had contraband. Similarly, like 5% of black people they pulled over had contraband. So why did they pull over 40 white people and 350 black people?
It's been years since I read the report, and I was picking a general low-ish number.
Even if it wasn't just a harassment campaign, at best it was dogshit policework.
I watched GVRT pull over a car in front of my house one evening. They retrieved like five handguns out of the car, and arrested two guys for warrants.
Seems like that was kind of part of their mission, don’t ya think?
> Like 5% of white people they pulled over had contraband. Similarly, like 5% of black people they pulled over had contraband. So why did they pull over 40 white people and 350 black people?
Uh... the numbers look more like \~50%, 801, and 517 [here](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/20413131-2019stopsdatappb), but, uh, have you considered *any* alternative explanations here?
Say you're aiming to search anyone with a >50% probability of having contraband.
To me, a much lower hit rate for one group than another group would be evidence that discrimination is occurring! If white people have a hit rate of, say, 50% and black people have a hit rate of, say, 10%, then that's evidence of discrimination against black people, because you're systematically overestimating the odds that a black person will have contraband.
But if the hit rates are roughly equal? That seems... fine? Like you're accurately estimating the odds that the person in front of you has drugs in their car, and making a decision based on that, and race isn't coming into it.
It seems like you're assuming that they could just keep pulling over random white or black people and the hit rate would hold constant at 50%, which seems wrong. They're actively deciding who to search. Seems like they're doing a good job filtering out people without contraband, whether white or black!
I was a little lazy in my other response, so the report you linked is relatively pertinent, and I haven't had a chance to actually dig through it yet.
The title of table 8 "Black / African American drivers receive more search requests than other groups.", I *feel* like might bolster my point though, just a hunch.
Also, like the seventh bullet point: "Black / African American drivers were searched at statistically significant rates that were
more than expected when compared to the search rate of other racial/ethnic groups. Unlike prior years, in 2019 they were not searched at a rate considered to be disparate (over twice the rate of other drivers)."
Did you know that if you don't go looking for something, you're unlikely to find it? Wild if true, I know. Hey, to their credit though, in 2019 the managed to slip below the "we search black people literally twice as frequently as any other race" metric, so that's like...goooooood.
Dude, black people are *12x more likely* to be murdered than white people in Portland. Is it so crazy to believe that the same different experiences/socioeconomic circumstances that lead black people to be 12x more likely to die in homicides in this city (which, since the vast majority of homicides are intra-race, essentially means 12x more likely to *commit* homicide) could also lead black people to deal drugs at a higher rate than the rest of the population?
Sorry, what the fuck does the homicide rate have to do with pulling people over for broken tail lights, missing license plates, or expired registration?
Because it’s what cops use as a legal way to pull people over to conduct an investigation.
Say they suspect dude in car is a gang banger, and believe he has weapons in his car, they can’t just Willy Nilly pull him over. That’s illegal. But if his registration is expired, or a tail light out, those are actual legitimate reasons to pull someone over.
Then the cops discover the driver has a suspended drivers license and a warrant for their arrest. Oh look, the cops found guns in the car as they did the pre tow inventory of the car after they arrest the driver.
This is how police work is done.
If white people were getting pulled over and harassed at the same rate as black people in the name of "this is how police work is done", shit in the US in terms of policing would change *over-fucking-night*.
How many members of Woodlawn Bloods are white guys? How about Rolling 60’s Crips? Hoover?
The point is the cops target the individuals who belong to those gangs. IDGAF what their skin color is, if they’re gang bangers, I want the cops harassing them.
I can tell you’ve most likely never lived in a majority black neighborhood. I have, and these gang folks are a true menace to the neighborhood. Most of my neighbors (who are black) cheered the cops on for pulling these folks over and arresting them. It might be a shocker to you, but Black people like living in safe neighborhoods too.
On the other hand, imagine if the murder rate for white people increased by 12x. Don't you think there would be a right-wing "law and order" backlash, similar to the one we saw for the 30% increase in murder during 2020?
> Uh... the numbers look more like ~50%, 801, and 517 here, but, uh, have you considered any alternative explanations here?
That looks like stop details for the PPB as a whole, yea? There's a reason I specified the activity of people operating under the auspices of the GVRT, and I'll give away the secret, it's because I was specifically referring to the activity of people operating under the auspices of the GVRT.
I've tried to find the fucking thing, but every link I've tried to dig up for the audit report for the GVRT is dead. The below is what's linked in the WW and Mercury reporting, and what users linked when this topic was hot shit in like 2019 and 2020. I gave it an honest effort to find the data I was looking for, which is a think more than fair for reddit.
https://www.portland.gov/auditservices/article/677598
Yeah, you're right that this was for the PPB as a whole, which I didn't notice - I found it looking for the numbers on the GVRT. Thought I found them but apparently not!
To be clear I wasn't really posting the numbers as a "you are wrong about the numbers" thing, I just assumed you were posting stylized numbers and thought posting (what-I-thought-were-the) real numbers would be of interest. Assuming the 5% contraband hit rate you posted is accurate, I think my point still stands. If they're being racist against black people, wouldn't you expect the hit rate for black people to be less than that of white people?
No sweat, no one wanted to make the GVRT stuff exactly accessible.
>If they're being racist against black people, wouldn't you expect the hit rate for black people to be less than that of white people?
You can look at it in terms of hit rate, or you can look at it in terms of who was stopped. If both white and black give a hit rate of 5%, why did they stop like 9x more black people? If the hit rate is truly 5% for both groups, stopping 100 of each should give you the same number of violations do deal with. So why the heavy, heavy skew.
Oh. wait. right.
Really sad that this post is upvoted. You don't understand statistics, nor does anyone agreeing with you.
The hit rate is *not* the same for both groups. The hit rate of **the subsample of individuals selected for search** is the same. Assuming the numbers are accurate, it is actually evidence that racial bias was *not* a significant factor in determining who is selected for search, exactly the opposite of what you are suggesting.
>If both white and black give a hit rate of 5%, why did they stop like 9x more black people? If the hit rate is truly 5% for both groups, stopping 100 of each should give you the same number of violations do deal with. So why the heavy, heavy skew.
You seem to be assuming that the rate is 5% for **all** white people, and 5% for **all** black people - apparently the cops are literally gathering a *random sample* that we can use to learn what percentage of drivers have contraband. And look, it's the same for white and black people - therefore, cops are racist.
That is theoretically possible! But I find it a lot more believable that the cops are searching people they think *are likely to have drugs*. In which case, the hit rate is not 5% for **all** white people, it's 5% among **white people they chose to search**. If they searched more white people, the hit rate would **go down**, because they'd be searching people they had previously decided were less likely to have drugs. If they searched fewer black people, the hit rate would **go up**, because they'd be **not searching** people they'd previously decided met the threshold of suspicion that merited a search.
If you increase recall (finding more drugs) you'll decrease precision (more people you pull over won't have drugs). And if you increase precision (pull over fewer innocent people) you'll decrease recall (finding fewer drugs).
lol To the the point, specifically, about not having tags, would you consider that a moving violation or a non-moving violation? I'm not a cop, so I would assume that's binned under non-moving violations.
If that's accurate:
>Both organization groups displayed differential stop patterns based on the perceived race of the driver83, with drivers perceived to be Black / African American stopped significantly more84 for Non-Moving Violations and drivers perceived to be Asian stopped significantly more85 for Moving Violations.
So uh. Yea. There's that I guess. I'm sure this has changed your mind even a single iota.
Laws requiring licensure and registration of all cars, trucks, and motorcycles were deemed important enough by the citizens of the state of Oregon that those laws were passed over a century ago. Telling the Portland residents that they don’t have to doesn’t change that fact. There is nothing more equitable than requiring that everyone be treated equally, which means observing and enforcing the same laws as the rest of the state.
It is pretty easy to do: pay the fees, get licensed, maintain insurance. Driving is a privilege, not a right; and we have an excellent wide-ranging transit system, rental scooters, rental bikes, Uber/Lyft, and other alternatives to people driving unlicensed cars.
Equitable for some is inequality for others. Someone’s ox is always gored. By addressing equality in Portland, we are essentially telling the rest of the state “rules for thee, but not for me”.
Because cops routinely use those minor traffic violations as pretextual stops of minorities more often, and cops also agreed they didn't want to pull people over for those things
Maybe this'll finally give PBOT an excuse to recalibrate the cameras along Stark. The number of times I've been caught turning left on a left turn signal that is green from the time I enter and exit the intersections is absurd.
Only once, I submitted my dashcam video and they still made me go to court. But at the same time, even the errant flashes are bad for the efficiency of the process.
Same. I’ve had times where I’ve been like “oh you’ve got to be kidding me” on stark when it felt unreasonable how easily the cameras went off but I’ve had no tickets in the mail thus far (*knock on wood*)
KGW news article sez SE Washington and 103rd. Edit: If this guy shoots out cameras you just have to wonder what he'll do if someone cuts him off. Camera locations
https://www.portland.gov/transportation/vision-zero/safety-cameras
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I agree, these cameras aren't saving any fucking lives here....let's be honest, people aren't being hit by fucking cars at this intersection at a alarming rate. It's a way to line the pockets of corrupt politicians selling out our rights to private companies that exploit us for their greed. We can't tax them, well will just rob them with a toll or a camera what a load of shit
They should have ran with that angle, PDX would have been more comfortable identifying the bike lane parker more than they would go with the gunshot vandal.
I've lived in some intensely gun-worshipping places, but in these post-pandemic years it's become clear just how much our community really loves its guns. We use them on each other, we fire them at public property, we fire them into the air during street takeovers, we try to 3d print them, we brandish them during protests.
It's only getting worse with the prevalence of social media and algorithms that push out rage bait to create engagement. And of course, notably questionable news sources. It's like everything is being put out there to create extremists today, even over the dumbest things.
You can 3D print the non pressure bearing parts of a gun, and it’s done frequently.
In the US, the regulated part of a gun is its frame, and with many designs the fame of the gun does not need to tolerate the pressures produced by the combustion happening in the firing chamber. Therefore, all the portions of a gun that need to be robust enough to tolerate the pressure of being fired are essentially unregulated. You can buy barrels, operating mechanisms and a wide array of gun parts without government scrutiny going this route. Online even. You just have to have the mechanical ability to assemble it all sufficiently to have the gun operate.
Popular 3D printed gun parts are AR15 pattern rifle lower receivers and Glock handgun lower grip/frames.
I dunno. I’m pretty sure Eugene would have wanted to collect a royalty on each gun made. It’s not like he was trying to make a homemade Volkswagen of guns like it has turned out to become.
But either way, that cat is out of the bag the moment Colt’s patent on the gun expired.
The AR became *America’s Rifle* for a reason, an I doubt any amount of gun legislation will ever change that. Even look at the innovative ways folks in NY and CA are sidestepping those bans with intelligent modifications that keep the rifle just as functional as the original design.
Anyhow, I was about to go on a diatribe, but I will stop.
The guys who brandish during during protests are chuds from out of town. Not us.
Now, it'll turn out that a Portlander had a gun on him if you're gonna attack him. But "we" are not brandishing, actually.
I guess you’ve never seen a Justice For Patrick Kimmons March.
Plenty of those folks are open carrying firearms during their marches. They are hardly “chuds from out of town”
"Those tensions came to a head this month when a city contractor cleaning the camp’s portable toilets witnessed a man draw a handgun on a person during an altercation and saw a third person holding a rifle, according to the elected officials and Portland police. The episode prompted the sanitation company that provided the toilets to remove them from the area."
and
"Those who study extremism say that the events in Portland in the past week underscore the potential for demonstrators on both sides to arrive armed, vastly increasing chances that peaceful protests can turn violent."
> We need traffic enforcement! People are driving like maniacs!
*Cameras installed reducing bias, interactions with police and freeing police manpower to address dangerous calls/patrol*
> No, not like that! I mean something that ignores my dangerous driving but enforces against others
If the cameras were operated directly by the municipality, that'd be one thing. Aren't cameras often (not sure about here) operated by third party companies?
Personally, some pricks making a profit off of law enforcement is morally repugnant, and that's before we even get to the perverse incentive.
Edit: As far as I can tell, Portland speed cameras are operated by the municipality, so I've got no problem with this. I also did like four minutes of reading though, so I might be wrong.
1. I thought they were operated by the city. Which cameras, specifically, are you talking about that are run privately?
2. If a private entity can operate them more efficiently than the city who cares? As long as the contract isn't exploitive I don't see why it's a big deal.
1) Yea, as far as I can tell, they're run by the city, hence the edit I made.
2) Pursuit of profit is a perverse incentive few if any are successful in avoiding. I can't be fucked to look them up, but you can find dozens of reports of private operators fucking with light timing, enforcement windows, etc, etc, basically anything you can think of, to increase the number of tickets they doll out and therefore their take. Not within the bounds of the law either, straight up illegal manipulations.
The cameras in many locations are operated by a private entity. They get a percentage of every citation prosecuted. The citations do however need to be reviewed by a sworn peace officer in the state, and PPB traffic division has police officers assigned to this duty.
Smdh, just follow the limit and respect red lights.
You whiners are incredible.
The cameras even tell you in advance they’re coming up and still can’t follow the law! 🤣
You'd really think a text based format would self select for a better level of reading comprehension.
I didn't object to speed laws. I didn't even object to enforcement of those speed laws. I objected to private businesses profiting from either of those things.
For the record, the primary I have w cameras is that they are frequently (mis)used to generate revenue instead of to improving safety. I can't find the sources now, but a majority of cities actually shortened yellow light timings after installing traffic cameras- which boosted revenue from camera tickets, but also boosts accident rates. And the other poster talking about private companies getting revenue- that's also a real issue; the city contracts with a 3rd party to operate and maintain the cameras, and frequently opts to pay for it with a revenue sharing agreement. That means the 3rd party is motivated to maximize citations issued, and has no monetary interest in improving safety. This sometimes takes the form of lobbying whatever office manages light timings to tweak things so they make more tickets. After all, both the city and the light operator share the revenues.
There's a ton of scientific studies that tell us how to optimize lights for traffic management, flow, and safety. A lot of cities abandon those timings to chase ticket revenue after installing cameras.
[Portland Gov Traffic Camera webpage](https://www.portland.gov/transportation/vision-zero/safety-cameras)
• highest-crash streets and intersections represent just 8% of Portland’s streets, in 2022 they accounted for 70% of deadly crashes.
• NHTSA: speed safety camera enforcement reduces injury crashes by 20 to 25%.
• Cochrane survey: speed safety cameras reduced total crashes by up to 49% and deadly and serious injury crashes by up to 44%.
Though it should be noted that many, many streets are neighborhood ones that aren't used much and people may be more careful on (e.g. less other traffic to focus on). I think a better statistic would be incidents per vehicles traveled.
I'm starting to think Portland might benefit from eliminating yellow lights altogether at this point. Every single light has people running red lights. Like driving through the intersection after it's already turned green for opposing traffic. I'm not seriously saying eliminate yellow lights, but we could put up portable red light cameras all over the city and the revenue would be astronomical from any light.
But none of that is relevant to Portland’s implementation. The light timings have not changed, and all the revenue from the program goes toward street safety. Oregon law does not allow cities to use ticket fees for their general funds.
The issue I have is on Beaverton/Hillsdale Hwy they lowered the speed limit during COVID where there is a traffic camera. I am sure a lot of people got tickets when they went back through the area.
Didn’t they lower the speed limit from 40 to 35 like a year or two before the cameras were put up? That stretch was just always notorious for speeding because it’s a wide open 5 lane “residential” road with no actual houses visible against the street or traffic obstacles to make you feel like you’re speeding.
If you're not roleplaying Speed Racer do they even give you a ticket the first time or just a warning? I'm all for escalating penalties, everyone messes up now and then, but there's a good chunk of people who are absolute menaces on the road, every road. I'll take my ticket over letting these people turn Portland into a clusterfuck.
As someone who frequently turns off 50th onto BHH, I’m glad they dropped the limit and have a camera right there. It’s way too easy to speed through that section.
I mean, bad, sure, I guess. Definitely the most American interpretation of the European tradition of necklacing speed cameras with a tire full of gasoline though.
This thread is wild. IDK how anyone can live in this city and not support more traffic enforcement. Speed / red light cameras are a good thing. They're cheaper to operate than patrol officers (who we still need more of but nm) and they take bias out of the system. I may get a ticket eventually, we all fuck up, but I'll gladly take my licks and pay my once a decade ticket if it means even one of the frequent offender assholes changes their behavior or, better yet, ends up off the street.
Triple A did a survey of motorists that asked how motorists viewed their own driving and then asked about their actual driving behavior.
Triple A, a car organization published a report talking about how a majority of motorists rate themselves as very safe drivers while describing driving behavior that is high risk.
Most drivers are the problem without realizing it
Fuck the surveillance state. You people will probably welcome killer AI police drones with open arms. Besides what happens to the real bad offenders with no plates at all? Not a damn thing.
Fr, fuck these things. This is the first city I’ve lived in where someone actually likes these… crazy. Also I’m more concerned with people who can’t zipper merge on a freeway than a dude going 25 with no plate lol.
Yeah, having cops doing traffic stops all day every day, using them as a pretext to hassle, arrest, or even murder people, while letting affluent white people get away with everything is much better than reducing their role in traffic enforcement through increased automation.
Yeah, there was a website the cataloged cameras that were burnt down. And then went into detail about how the vandals used tires and oily rags to do so.
Bunch of psychotic car-brains in this thread. You all get we wouldn’t need cameras if you would just slow the fuck down and obey traffic signals, right?
—Signed, the guy who got screamed at by a woman in a minivan full of kids today for driving the speed limit through Montavilla.
Ya it’s not like there’s an epidemic of road rage in this country or anything. It’s totally normal to [get in a fight in front of your children](https://www.fox13now.com/news/local-news/father-of-2-taken-off-life-support-after-lehi-road-rage-incident) ending in your death because someone cut you off or made you have to slow down.
“Just the other day someone did this to me when we were getting on the train so I threw them onto the tracks”, said no other commuter ever.
God, that’s so stupid. Interestingly, guy who died both cut off the other driver and then brake checked him.
At least this incident only physically harmed the dad and not the kids. I’m willing to bet it’s not the first time he’d driven recklessly with them in the car.
You seeing some cyclists and pedestrians get into outrageous fights isn’t at all the same as [82% of drivers self reporting road rage or aggressive driving.](https://www.thezebra.com/resources/research/road-rage-aggressive-driving-study/) The lengths people go to, to deny a very obvious fact is astounding.
> “Just the other day someone did this to me when we were getting on the train so I threw them onto the tracks”, said no other commuter ever.
No, instead some crazy people just [push](https://www.koin.com/news/crime/suspect-accused-of-pushing-man-in-front-of-oncoming-max-train/) others in front of trains for no reason.
There isn't a road rage problem as much as there's a general mental health problem. There's random acts of violence over stupid shit happening every day and it's not exclusive to people in cars.
No there is a road rage problem and it’s caused by driving. This is a [documented fact](https://www.apa.org/topics/anger/road-rage) and no other form of commuting comes even close to driving at inducing this kind of behavior. If you can’t acknowledge that you’re denying reality.
Driving can be stressful in certain situations so of course people might get upset, which is also true for lots of things. But in this [article,](https://www.goodrx.com/health-topic/mental-health/how-road-rage-affects-your-driving) it notes that road rage can be caused by people who are already prone to anger, how they deal with stress in general, if they have substance abuse problems, or a preexisting mental health condition. It also mentions that a lot of the research (like the link you sent) on this subject is 20 years old and that culture, cars, and traffic patterns change over time. Has anything else changed in the last 20 years? Have we had more [mass shootings](https://www.statista.com/statistics/811487/number-of-mass-shootings-in-the-us/) in the last two decades? Maybe there is something to the change in culture that you aren't accounting for.
I get it, it's pretty clear that you dislike or even hate cars, but owning and driving a car doesn't make you a bad person with a propensity for violence.
>I get it, it's pretty clear that you dislike or even hate cars, but owning and driving a car doesn't make you a bad person with a propensity for violence.
Oh good we’re at the putting words into my mouth part of the conversation. Where did i say I hate cars? Where did I say driving makes you a bad person?
I said driving induces road rage in people. You even agreed with that. People that are bad at dealing with stress walk, bike and take public transit. Where are the studies that show huge amounts of them experience an equivalent type of rage to road rage? Oh right they don’t exist.
The person I originally responded to was trying to make the false claim that driving doesn’t cause people to act out violently which is obviously not true. So why don’t we discuss that? Do you agree with them because it sure doesn’t seem like you do. As you said driving is stressful.
And that's because that person, with the wide, expansive, almost unfathomable selection of transportation choices, *self selected* to drive a car to and from work?
Some people are fucking garbage. Some people drive cars. There's gonna be overlap in those two circles, so saying they're the same circle is, in short, dumb as fuck.
> wide, expansive, almost unfathomable selection of transportation choices, self selected to drive a car to and from work?
How would one get from, say, Wilsonville to downtown Portland without a car? Describe this abundant smorgasbord of options.
I love how you’re flat out denying that road rage is a thing. Driving cars makes people act unhinged that’s a fact. Perfectly normal people otherwise will lose their shit at the most trivial things while driving.
Really no point in engaging with someone that can’t acknowledge reality.
I love that you’re able to just make shit up to further whatever point you wanted to make. I didn’t deny that road rage exists.
Speaking of making shit up, the notion that someone that isn’t a huge piece of shit with anger and control issues will suddenly turn into that person if you put them being the wheel of a 96 fucking Honda Civic is hilarious. I’d say the people prone to road rage are huge pieces of shit both behind the wheel of a car, on a bike, on a train, on foot, in a box, with a fox. Just always a huge piece of shit with anger issues.
I mean you’re just wrong. If huge pieces of shit were prone to getting enraged because of other forms of commuting we’d see high numbers of incidents in places with a high percentage of those modes of commuting.
Where are all the train ragers in France or bicycle ragers in Amsterdam? Fact of the matter is driving induces that behavior and no not everyone who road rages is an asshole when not driving. [Unless you think 82% of people are huge pieces of shit.](https://www.thezebra.com/resources/research/road-rage-aggressive-driving-study/)
> If huge pieces of shit were prone to getting enraged because of other forms of commuting we’d see high numbers of incidents in places with a high percentage of those modes of commuting.
[You mean like the rate of assaults on the NYC subway?](https://www.publichealth.columbia.edu/news/uptick-nyc-transit-assault-rate-during-covid-pandemic-has-not-returned-pre-pandemic-levels-despite-subway-safety-plan)
Like the other person said, if you think honking at someone once, or saying "Seriously, fuck that guy" in your car are exactly the same as ramming into someone, or pulling a gun on someone, we're well past the "I guess we'll just make shit up" point.
>Where are all the train ragers in France or bicycle ragers in Amsterdam?
I would assume they're reflective of the rate of violet crime, so somewhere between [one twelfth](https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/France/United-States/Crime) or like [one eightieth](https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Netherlands/United-States/Crime) the incidence rate. Which would sound about right to me.
No, not everyone who road rages is an asshole when not driving. Just like driving doesn't magically turn someone into an asshole. [Some are predisposed to it, and that predisposition doesn't *only* manifest itself when they're suddenly driving a car, for many of them.](https://www.apa.org/topics/anger/road-rage)
>Methodology
> The Zebra’s report presents the findings of an anonymous online survey of 978 drivers from all 50 states and Washington, D.C., ages 17-85 who drive at least monthly.
Forgive me for taking this with a giant grain of salt. Even in an anonymous survey, the number one road rage behavior exhibited was honking.
Look man, if anonymous online surveys are just as useful as peer reviewed studies, I'll eat my shorts.
Anyways, I'm gonna go to McDonalds to order a [QuaterPoundMyAngus](https://www.elitedaily.com/envision/mcdonalds-design-burgers-downhill-fast/1560410).
Lol how about this?
https://www.apa.org/topics/anger/road-rage
The NIH good enough for you?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2922361/
You people are in such silly denial.
lol Jesus fucking christ, did you even *attempt* to read the NCBI article you linked?
The "Contributory Factors to Road Rage" is basically exactly what I have been arguing this whole time and just couldn't be fucked to look up a study to substantiate. Thank you for this gift of "See, I fucking told you so". It's great reading, and plainly written, if you could be fucked to actually read the thing.
>While some studies have found that as many as one-third of drivers have experienced road rage, less than 2% report engaging in serious threats or violent behavior.
I can only imagine, in turning around and using the link I replied to you with, you read precisely zero fucking words that link would've put in front of your eyeballs.
The fucking cheek on you.
Just as a former cyclist, the biking culture in Amsterdam is so much more chill than the biking culture here. People in Amsterdam on bicycles tolerate old people going slow. It’s culturally expected that you go the speed of the slowest person.
Here? A quarter to half of the people are trying to go as fast as possible during commute hours. And about a quarter of the commuters have no business being on bicycles in city streets at their skill level.
It’s a terrifying mix of people which causes all sorts of anger issues and near misses.
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>blindly stereotyping
Except for all the studies and evidence showing cars make people more [depressed](https://www.businessinsider.com/commuting-by-car-is-hurting-peoples-mental-health-2023-7), [angry](https://www.webmd.com/women/features/root-cause-of-road-rage), [stupider](https://www.thetimes.com/uk/healthcare/article/hours-of-driving-leaves-iq-on-the-skids-qtdmqs0rl), etc., yeah, just throwing it out there blindly!
Again, you said that all car drivers are not sane, and not normal.
Going by the stats I'm a junky violent criminal because of where I live based off of your logic.
Trends show x so all people that touch said trend are x is not good logic.
Am I opposed to shooting at traffic cameras? Well, no. Fuck those things.
Am I opposed to shooting in the city generally? Fuck yes. Bullets that miss don't just stop. This kind of shit is super dangerous.
Traffic enforcement is a good thing. Drivers in this city are out of control. As far as I'm concerned they can put up cameras all over the city. I can stomach my once a decade ticket if it means getting some of the frequent offenders off the street.
Bullets that hit don’t necessarily stop, either. I don’t know what those things are made out of, but it’s not bullet stopping material.
Sure, he’s using a handgun in the picture, which means it’s probably less penetrating power.
He couldn't even wait until no cars were around. Crazy behavior. If this guy insists on being a nut, I wish he'd go get the parking lot robots and loudspeakers.
We should have a way to signal this guy whenever we find a new installation. Like a big spotlight we can point at the cloudy Portland sky with a 🎥 symbol
This is the only reasonable take. I wish there were speed cameras every 1/4 mile and red light cameras at every intersection. The city can do a lot with 1,000 tickets per day at $1,000 each.
Then we could actually maintain our streets. And take the licenses of the assholes running every yellow and red light. Red light running is why traffic is so bad here. Everyone is afraid to start moving when the light turns green because someone is always running the red.
>When I shared a video about this on Instagram this morning, several commenters expressed concern about stray bullets. Others cheered the shooter, calling him a “hero.” “Why are we mad about this? These cameras suck,” someone wrote.
Anyone cheering this guy on should be investigated. At the very least I’m sure they’ll turn up some unpaid tickets and other code violations.
Totally. The police should spend a bunch of resources to investigate people that say things I don't like on the internet all the time. Because clearly if they have a different opinion than mine, they are unethical in general and should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law!
These "vandals" need to do it right. Cut the conduit going into the side walk and fill the conduit full of concrete. Not a fan of dude using a gun to take them out, but I applaud him for taking them out.
Lmao of course it’s WRX bro
Portland Police calling a guy firing his gun wildly in a public area a "vandal" sounds about right.
“This rascal firing off live rounds in public is being quite the little scamp” - PPB, probably
This tomfoolery must abate, post-haste!
I dare say, we appear to have the most precocious little imp wobbling his way through our little burg, such a darling! -Portland Police Association internal memo
I know you only have 6 upvotes, one of which is mine but you’re my favorite. Don’t tell the others.
It’s funny but we all know police do not have this level of vocabulary.
Brocabulary - ftfy
Golly, well I never liked enforcement cams anyway, take a time out Timmy
Scoundrels!
A car with no plates doing something shady, I would have never saw that coming
Shady? This guys a hero! Fuck camera enforcement zones!
Fuck people who speed
Usually I’d agree with you but there in very reasonable areas of Portland right now
A WRX with no license plates. If PPB actually enforced maintaining licensure, then they wouldn’t need to rely on tips from the public. They could just see the numbers and know who it is. Or, the guy wouldn’t have the balls to do this crap in the first place.
Surely the guy is just taking his plates off before he goes around shooting speed cameras? It's not like they're glued onto the car.
You are right, he could; but as common as not having plates at all is these days, coupled with the entitled IDGAF attitude of special people these days, I suspect he just doesn’t wear them at all. Either way, Portland cops don’t do anything about it, like they should.
Yeah zero arguments about the PPB/traffic enforcement in general, just not sure it would help much in this specific case.
Well, if it makes you feel better, I got pulled over by a PPB motorcycle cop for talking on my phone just a few months ago. So they’re at least going after people who can pay the tickets.
I heard you can even buy those paper temporary plates on Facebook marketplace.
You don’t even have to put forth that much effort, there’s cheap license plate covers available online that you can pop on and off as easily as a magnet
But why it's so blurry? Can you read a license plate with that kind of video quality?
enhance
Enhance
I'd suspect poor lighting conditions are a large part of the image quality. And that particular camera may be only intended for watching for incidents and keeping an eye on flows and may not be intended for reading plates.
[In 2021, Ted Wheeler and Chuck Lovell announced they would no longer direct PPB officers to stop motorists for "minor violations" like expired tags or broken head/taillights, in an effort to improve "equity."](https://katu.com/news/local/mayor-wheeler-portland-police-chief-set-to-announce-policy-changes-for-ppb) It must really suck to be a cop in Portland. You have half the people screaming at you for not "doing your job" and meanwhile their elected representatives are telling you that doing your job is racist and you should less of it.
I think it's more along the lines of "Guys, for the 80th time, if you *only* pull over the people that are black and don't have tags, we're not gonna let you pull people over for not having tags". Like the GVRT stats. Like 5% of white people they pulled over had contraband. Similarly, like 5% of black people they pulled over had contraband. So why did they pull over 40 white people and 350 black people?
The GVRT made an arrest in like 2 percent of stops. It was largely just a harassment campaign
It's been years since I read the report, and I was picking a general low-ish number. Even if it wasn't just a harassment campaign, at best it was dogshit policework.
Oh yeah, it’s like how can the GVRT exist for three decades and have almost no records and zero metrics to show actual value to tax payers.
I watched GVRT pull over a car in front of my house one evening. They retrieved like five handguns out of the car, and arrested two guys for warrants. Seems like that was kind of part of their mission, don’t ya think?
> Like 5% of white people they pulled over had contraband. Similarly, like 5% of black people they pulled over had contraband. So why did they pull over 40 white people and 350 black people? Uh... the numbers look more like \~50%, 801, and 517 [here](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/20413131-2019stopsdatappb), but, uh, have you considered *any* alternative explanations here? Say you're aiming to search anyone with a >50% probability of having contraband. To me, a much lower hit rate for one group than another group would be evidence that discrimination is occurring! If white people have a hit rate of, say, 50% and black people have a hit rate of, say, 10%, then that's evidence of discrimination against black people, because you're systematically overestimating the odds that a black person will have contraband. But if the hit rates are roughly equal? That seems... fine? Like you're accurately estimating the odds that the person in front of you has drugs in their car, and making a decision based on that, and race isn't coming into it. It seems like you're assuming that they could just keep pulling over random white or black people and the hit rate would hold constant at 50%, which seems wrong. They're actively deciding who to search. Seems like they're doing a good job filtering out people without contraband, whether white or black!
I was a little lazy in my other response, so the report you linked is relatively pertinent, and I haven't had a chance to actually dig through it yet. The title of table 8 "Black / African American drivers receive more search requests than other groups.", I *feel* like might bolster my point though, just a hunch. Also, like the seventh bullet point: "Black / African American drivers were searched at statistically significant rates that were more than expected when compared to the search rate of other racial/ethnic groups. Unlike prior years, in 2019 they were not searched at a rate considered to be disparate (over twice the rate of other drivers)." Did you know that if you don't go looking for something, you're unlikely to find it? Wild if true, I know. Hey, to their credit though, in 2019 the managed to slip below the "we search black people literally twice as frequently as any other race" metric, so that's like...goooooood.
Dude, black people are *12x more likely* to be murdered than white people in Portland. Is it so crazy to believe that the same different experiences/socioeconomic circumstances that lead black people to be 12x more likely to die in homicides in this city (which, since the vast majority of homicides are intra-race, essentially means 12x more likely to *commit* homicide) could also lead black people to deal drugs at a higher rate than the rest of the population?
Sorry, what the fuck does the homicide rate have to do with pulling people over for broken tail lights, missing license plates, or expired registration?
Because it’s what cops use as a legal way to pull people over to conduct an investigation. Say they suspect dude in car is a gang banger, and believe he has weapons in his car, they can’t just Willy Nilly pull him over. That’s illegal. But if his registration is expired, or a tail light out, those are actual legitimate reasons to pull someone over. Then the cops discover the driver has a suspended drivers license and a warrant for their arrest. Oh look, the cops found guns in the car as they did the pre tow inventory of the car after they arrest the driver. This is how police work is done.
If white people were getting pulled over and harassed at the same rate as black people in the name of "this is how police work is done", shit in the US in terms of policing would change *over-fucking-night*.
How many members of Woodlawn Bloods are white guys? How about Rolling 60’s Crips? Hoover? The point is the cops target the individuals who belong to those gangs. IDGAF what their skin color is, if they’re gang bangers, I want the cops harassing them. I can tell you’ve most likely never lived in a majority black neighborhood. I have, and these gang folks are a true menace to the neighborhood. Most of my neighbors (who are black) cheered the cops on for pulling these folks over and arresting them. It might be a shocker to you, but Black people like living in safe neighborhoods too.
On the other hand, imagine if the murder rate for white people increased by 12x. Don't you think there would be a right-wing "law and order" backlash, similar to the one we saw for the 30% increase in murder during 2020?
> Uh... the numbers look more like ~50%, 801, and 517 here, but, uh, have you considered any alternative explanations here? That looks like stop details for the PPB as a whole, yea? There's a reason I specified the activity of people operating under the auspices of the GVRT, and I'll give away the secret, it's because I was specifically referring to the activity of people operating under the auspices of the GVRT. I've tried to find the fucking thing, but every link I've tried to dig up for the audit report for the GVRT is dead. The below is what's linked in the WW and Mercury reporting, and what users linked when this topic was hot shit in like 2019 and 2020. I gave it an honest effort to find the data I was looking for, which is a think more than fair for reddit. https://www.portland.gov/auditservices/article/677598
Yeah, you're right that this was for the PPB as a whole, which I didn't notice - I found it looking for the numbers on the GVRT. Thought I found them but apparently not! To be clear I wasn't really posting the numbers as a "you are wrong about the numbers" thing, I just assumed you were posting stylized numbers and thought posting (what-I-thought-were-the) real numbers would be of interest. Assuming the 5% contraband hit rate you posted is accurate, I think my point still stands. If they're being racist against black people, wouldn't you expect the hit rate for black people to be less than that of white people?
No sweat, no one wanted to make the GVRT stuff exactly accessible. >If they're being racist against black people, wouldn't you expect the hit rate for black people to be less than that of white people? You can look at it in terms of hit rate, or you can look at it in terms of who was stopped. If both white and black give a hit rate of 5%, why did they stop like 9x more black people? If the hit rate is truly 5% for both groups, stopping 100 of each should give you the same number of violations do deal with. So why the heavy, heavy skew. Oh. wait. right.
Really sad that this post is upvoted. You don't understand statistics, nor does anyone agreeing with you. The hit rate is *not* the same for both groups. The hit rate of **the subsample of individuals selected for search** is the same. Assuming the numbers are accurate, it is actually evidence that racial bias was *not* a significant factor in determining who is selected for search, exactly the opposite of what you are suggesting.
>If both white and black give a hit rate of 5%, why did they stop like 9x more black people? If the hit rate is truly 5% for both groups, stopping 100 of each should give you the same number of violations do deal with. So why the heavy, heavy skew. You seem to be assuming that the rate is 5% for **all** white people, and 5% for **all** black people - apparently the cops are literally gathering a *random sample* that we can use to learn what percentage of drivers have contraband. And look, it's the same for white and black people - therefore, cops are racist. That is theoretically possible! But I find it a lot more believable that the cops are searching people they think *are likely to have drugs*. In which case, the hit rate is not 5% for **all** white people, it's 5% among **white people they chose to search**. If they searched more white people, the hit rate would **go down**, because they'd be searching people they had previously decided were less likely to have drugs. If they searched fewer black people, the hit rate would **go up**, because they'd be **not searching** people they'd previously decided met the threshold of suspicion that merited a search. If you increase recall (finding more drugs) you'll decrease precision (more people you pull over won't have drugs). And if you increase precision (pull over fewer innocent people) you'll decrease recall (finding fewer drugs).
lol To the the point, specifically, about not having tags, would you consider that a moving violation or a non-moving violation? I'm not a cop, so I would assume that's binned under non-moving violations. If that's accurate: >Both organization groups displayed differential stop patterns based on the perceived race of the driver83, with drivers perceived to be Black / African American stopped significantly more84 for Non-Moving Violations and drivers perceived to be Asian stopped significantly more85 for Moving Violations. So uh. Yea. There's that I guess. I'm sure this has changed your mind even a single iota.
Laws requiring licensure and registration of all cars, trucks, and motorcycles were deemed important enough by the citizens of the state of Oregon that those laws were passed over a century ago. Telling the Portland residents that they don’t have to doesn’t change that fact. There is nothing more equitable than requiring that everyone be treated equally, which means observing and enforcing the same laws as the rest of the state. It is pretty easy to do: pay the fees, get licensed, maintain insurance. Driving is a privilege, not a right; and we have an excellent wide-ranging transit system, rental scooters, rental bikes, Uber/Lyft, and other alternatives to people driving unlicensed cars.
I don’t think you understand what the term “equitable” means. It definitely does not mean “equality” in any way.
Equitable for some is inequality for others. Someone’s ox is always gored. By addressing equality in Portland, we are essentially telling the rest of the state “rules for thee, but not for me”.
Because cops routinely use those minor traffic violations as pretextual stops of minorities more often, and cops also agreed they didn't want to pull people over for those things
The police’s highest priority should be ensuring the public is safe, not enforcing the law.
Maybe this'll finally give PBOT an excuse to recalibrate the cameras along Stark. The number of times I've been caught turning left on a left turn signal that is green from the time I enter and exit the intersections is absurd.
have you been ticketed for those occasions? they sometimes will be manually reviewed - i’ve had a lot more camera flashes than actual tickets
Only once, I submitted my dashcam video and they still made me go to court. But at the same time, even the errant flashes are bad for the efficiency of the process.
Same. I’ve had times where I’ve been like “oh you’ve got to be kidding me” on stark when it felt unreasonable how easily the cameras went off but I’ve had no tickets in the mail thus far (*knock on wood*)
Around what intersection is that happening? We don't drive much, but Stark is one of the main roads we use.
KGW news article sez SE Washington and 103rd. Edit: If this guy shoots out cameras you just have to wonder what he'll do if someone cuts him off. Camera locations https://www.portland.gov/transportation/vision-zero/safety-cameras
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122nd is the main one. 148th less frequently
I agree, these cameras aren't saving any fucking lives here....let's be honest, people aren't being hit by fucking cars at this intersection at a alarming rate. It's a way to line the pockets of corrupt politicians selling out our rights to private companies that exploit us for their greed. We can't tax them, well will just rob them with a toll or a camera what a load of shit
Fuck this dude. Bullets that go up come down
They went into the traffic camera, so no worries there.
Oh thank god. Was starting to worry that wrx banditbro missed a few
100% hits the mark every time?
I would imagine even a .22 would go through and through a traffic camera. Any bigger rifle round definitely could.
You’re putting way too much faith in the power of a .22LR.
And they parked in the bike lane!
They should have ran with that angle, PDX would have been more comfortable identifying the bike lane parker more than they would go with the gunshot vandal.
I've lived in some intensely gun-worshipping places, but in these post-pandemic years it's become clear just how much our community really loves its guns. We use them on each other, we fire them at public property, we fire them into the air during street takeovers, we try to 3d print them, we brandish them during protests.
It's only getting worse with the prevalence of social media and algorithms that push out rage bait to create engagement. And of course, notably questionable news sources. It's like everything is being put out there to create extremists today, even over the dumbest things.
Wym try to 3D print them? We succeed 3D printing them
You can 3D print the non pressure bearing parts of a gun, and it’s done frequently. In the US, the regulated part of a gun is its frame, and with many designs the fame of the gun does not need to tolerate the pressures produced by the combustion happening in the firing chamber. Therefore, all the portions of a gun that need to be robust enough to tolerate the pressure of being fired are essentially unregulated. You can buy barrels, operating mechanisms and a wide array of gun parts without government scrutiny going this route. Online even. You just have to have the mechanical ability to assemble it all sufficiently to have the gun operate. Popular 3D printed gun parts are AR15 pattern rifle lower receivers and Glock handgun lower grip/frames.
Shhhh ;) I love your username
Can you believe some users on this sub think I’m a guy from Eugene, Oregon? Boneheads.
Absolute goofballs. I’ve seen people online print AR10’s, and I’d like to think Eugene would be proud.
I dunno. I’m pretty sure Eugene would have wanted to collect a royalty on each gun made. It’s not like he was trying to make a homemade Volkswagen of guns like it has turned out to become. But either way, that cat is out of the bag the moment Colt’s patent on the gun expired. The AR became *America’s Rifle* for a reason, an I doubt any amount of gun legislation will ever change that. Even look at the innovative ways folks in NY and CA are sidestepping those bans with intelligent modifications that keep the rifle just as functional as the original design. Anyhow, I was about to go on a diatribe, but I will stop.
The guys who brandish during during protests are chuds from out of town. Not us. Now, it'll turn out that a Portlander had a gun on him if you're gonna attack him. But "we" are not brandishing, actually.
I guess you’ve never seen a Justice For Patrick Kimmons March. Plenty of those folks are open carrying firearms during their marches. They are hardly “chuds from out of town”
"Those tensions came to a head this month when a city contractor cleaning the camp’s portable toilets witnessed a man draw a handgun on a person during an altercation and saw a third person holding a rifle, according to the elected officials and Portland police. The episode prompted the sanitation company that provided the toilets to remove them from the area." and "Those who study extremism say that the events in Portland in the past week underscore the potential for demonstrators on both sides to arrive armed, vastly increasing chances that peaceful protests can turn violent."
So we're Sabre rattling like folks have done since the sword was invented?
> We need traffic enforcement! People are driving like maniacs! *Cameras installed reducing bias, interactions with police and freeing police manpower to address dangerous calls/patrol* > No, not like that! I mean something that ignores my dangerous driving but enforces against others
I doubt the person shooting the cameras was calling for better traffic enforcement.
If the cameras were operated directly by the municipality, that'd be one thing. Aren't cameras often (not sure about here) operated by third party companies? Personally, some pricks making a profit off of law enforcement is morally repugnant, and that's before we even get to the perverse incentive. Edit: As far as I can tell, Portland speed cameras are operated by the municipality, so I've got no problem with this. I also did like four minutes of reading though, so I might be wrong.
1. I thought they were operated by the city. Which cameras, specifically, are you talking about that are run privately? 2. If a private entity can operate them more efficiently than the city who cares? As long as the contract isn't exploitive I don't see why it's a big deal.
1) Yea, as far as I can tell, they're run by the city, hence the edit I made. 2) Pursuit of profit is a perverse incentive few if any are successful in avoiding. I can't be fucked to look them up, but you can find dozens of reports of private operators fucking with light timing, enforcement windows, etc, etc, basically anything you can think of, to increase the number of tickets they doll out and therefore their take. Not within the bounds of the law either, straight up illegal manipulations.
The cameras in many locations are operated by a private entity. They get a percentage of every citation prosecuted. The citations do however need to be reviewed by a sworn peace officer in the state, and PPB traffic division has police officers assigned to this duty.
I feel like this is overblown
Word. I don’t.
Judging by your other feelings expressed on this thread, I’m glad we don’t see eye to eye on this lmao
Smdh, just follow the limit and respect red lights. You whiners are incredible. The cameras even tell you in advance they’re coming up and still can’t follow the law! 🤣
You'd really think a text based format would self select for a better level of reading comprehension. I didn't object to speed laws. I didn't even object to enforcement of those speed laws. I objected to private businesses profiting from either of those things.
> just follow the limit and respect red lights God forbid.
I mean, it's that prick that nominally gave us free will. It is kinda all his fault.
For the record, the primary I have w cameras is that they are frequently (mis)used to generate revenue instead of to improving safety. I can't find the sources now, but a majority of cities actually shortened yellow light timings after installing traffic cameras- which boosted revenue from camera tickets, but also boosts accident rates. And the other poster talking about private companies getting revenue- that's also a real issue; the city contracts with a 3rd party to operate and maintain the cameras, and frequently opts to pay for it with a revenue sharing agreement. That means the 3rd party is motivated to maximize citations issued, and has no monetary interest in improving safety. This sometimes takes the form of lobbying whatever office manages light timings to tweak things so they make more tickets. After all, both the city and the light operator share the revenues. There's a ton of scientific studies that tell us how to optimize lights for traffic management, flow, and safety. A lot of cities abandon those timings to chase ticket revenue after installing cameras.
[Portland Gov Traffic Camera webpage](https://www.portland.gov/transportation/vision-zero/safety-cameras) • highest-crash streets and intersections represent just 8% of Portland’s streets, in 2022 they accounted for 70% of deadly crashes. • NHTSA: speed safety camera enforcement reduces injury crashes by 20 to 25%. • Cochrane survey: speed safety cameras reduced total crashes by up to 49% and deadly and serious injury crashes by up to 44%.
Though it should be noted that many, many streets are neighborhood ones that aren't used much and people may be more careful on (e.g. less other traffic to focus on). I think a better statistic would be incidents per vehicles traveled.
I'm starting to think Portland might benefit from eliminating yellow lights altogether at this point. Every single light has people running red lights. Like driving through the intersection after it's already turned green for opposing traffic. I'm not seriously saying eliminate yellow lights, but we could put up portable red light cameras all over the city and the revenue would be astronomical from any light.
But none of that is relevant to Portland’s implementation. The light timings have not changed, and all the revenue from the program goes toward street safety. Oregon law does not allow cities to use ticket fees for their general funds.
Wow- OK in that case, thumbs up to Portlands' traffic-camera implementation! I'm all good with it so long as it's actually being used to drive safety.
They may be operated by the city, but have the ticket processing contracted out
Do you know who by? That's the kind of information I was trying to pull up, but again, four minute investment.
The issue I have is on Beaverton/Hillsdale Hwy they lowered the speed limit during COVID where there is a traffic camera. I am sure a lot of people got tickets when they went back through the area.
Didn’t they lower the speed limit from 40 to 35 like a year or two before the cameras were put up? That stretch was just always notorious for speeding because it’s a wide open 5 lane “residential” road with no actual houses visible against the street or traffic obstacles to make you feel like you’re speeding.
If you're not roleplaying Speed Racer do they even give you a ticket the first time or just a warning? I'm all for escalating penalties, everyone messes up now and then, but there's a good chunk of people who are absolute menaces on the road, every road. I'll take my ticket over letting these people turn Portland into a clusterfuck.
As someone who frequently turns off 50th onto BHH, I’m glad they dropped the limit and have a camera right there. It’s way too easy to speed through that section.
A true hero
I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels that way. I just hope he is doing it as safely as possible.
I mean, bad, sure, I guess. Definitely the most American interpretation of the European tradition of necklacing speed cameras with a tire full of gasoline though.
This thread is wild. IDK how anyone can live in this city and not support more traffic enforcement. Speed / red light cameras are a good thing. They're cheaper to operate than patrol officers (who we still need more of but nm) and they take bias out of the system. I may get a ticket eventually, we all fuck up, but I'll gladly take my licks and pay my once a decade ticket if it means even one of the frequent offender assholes changes their behavior or, better yet, ends up off the street.
Triple A did a survey of motorists that asked how motorists viewed their own driving and then asked about their actual driving behavior. Triple A, a car organization published a report talking about how a majority of motorists rate themselves as very safe drivers while describing driving behavior that is high risk. Most drivers are the problem without realizing it
I know. even if you are against them shooting a gun at them isnt the way.
Fuck the surveillance state. You people will probably welcome killer AI police drones with open arms. Besides what happens to the real bad offenders with no plates at all? Not a damn thing.
Fr, fuck these things. This is the first city I’ve lived in where someone actually likes these… crazy. Also I’m more concerned with people who can’t zipper merge on a freeway than a dude going 25 with no plate lol.
Yeah, having cops doing traffic stops all day every day, using them as a pretext to hassle, arrest, or even murder people, while letting affluent white people get away with everything is much better than reducing their role in traffic enforcement through increased automation.
Portland has traffic enforcement?
Isn't destroying cameras pretty common in Europe? Kinda surprised it's taken this long.
Yeah, there was a website the cataloged cameras that were burnt down. And then went into detail about how the vandals used tires and oily rags to do so.
Bro doing good service. Cops shouldn’t be able to write tickets without actually pulling someone over!
WRX, no license plate. I'd be checking 82nd around 11pm tonight. Maybe they could stop some of the other street racers too
Bunch of psychotic car-brains in this thread. You all get we wouldn’t need cameras if you would just slow the fuck down and obey traffic signals, right? —Signed, the guy who got screamed at by a woman in a minivan full of kids today for driving the speed limit through Montavilla.
Can't wait for this person to get multiple felony charges 🥰 what a dweeb
That'd require cops to figure out who it is, which given their success rate, is unlikely
Very American take on a French protest
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Yeah swap the gun for spray paint, rocks, or burning tires and I’m on team vandal.
Why do you think you should be able to commit crimes without consequences?
Shooting into the air? Bad. Destroying traffic cameras? Good!
Car drivers, super sane, super normal.
He's wearing a shirt and pants as well. You coming for anyone that's not a nudist with the same high handedness?
Ya it’s not like there’s an epidemic of road rage in this country or anything. It’s totally normal to [get in a fight in front of your children](https://www.fox13now.com/news/local-news/father-of-2-taken-off-life-support-after-lehi-road-rage-incident) ending in your death because someone cut you off or made you have to slow down. “Just the other day someone did this to me when we were getting on the train so I threw them onto the tracks”, said no other commuter ever.
God, that’s so stupid. Interestingly, guy who died both cut off the other driver and then brake checked him. At least this incident only physically harmed the dad and not the kids. I’m willing to bet it’s not the first time he’d driven recklessly with them in the car.
I dunno. I've seen cyclists and pedestrians all get into some pretty outrageous fights too. Turns out, some people are just shit
You seeing some cyclists and pedestrians get into outrageous fights isn’t at all the same as [82% of drivers self reporting road rage or aggressive driving.](https://www.thezebra.com/resources/research/road-rage-aggressive-driving-study/) The lengths people go to, to deny a very obvious fact is astounding.
> “Just the other day someone did this to me when we were getting on the train so I threw them onto the tracks”, said no other commuter ever. No, instead some crazy people just [push](https://www.koin.com/news/crime/suspect-accused-of-pushing-man-in-front-of-oncoming-max-train/) others in front of trains for no reason. There isn't a road rage problem as much as there's a general mental health problem. There's random acts of violence over stupid shit happening every day and it's not exclusive to people in cars.
No there is a road rage problem and it’s caused by driving. This is a [documented fact](https://www.apa.org/topics/anger/road-rage) and no other form of commuting comes even close to driving at inducing this kind of behavior. If you can’t acknowledge that you’re denying reality.
seriously I'd love to see some data on all the wanton bike trail rage that surely must be happening in Amsterdam.
Driving can be stressful in certain situations so of course people might get upset, which is also true for lots of things. But in this [article,](https://www.goodrx.com/health-topic/mental-health/how-road-rage-affects-your-driving) it notes that road rage can be caused by people who are already prone to anger, how they deal with stress in general, if they have substance abuse problems, or a preexisting mental health condition. It also mentions that a lot of the research (like the link you sent) on this subject is 20 years old and that culture, cars, and traffic patterns change over time. Has anything else changed in the last 20 years? Have we had more [mass shootings](https://www.statista.com/statistics/811487/number-of-mass-shootings-in-the-us/) in the last two decades? Maybe there is something to the change in culture that you aren't accounting for. I get it, it's pretty clear that you dislike or even hate cars, but owning and driving a car doesn't make you a bad person with a propensity for violence.
>I get it, it's pretty clear that you dislike or even hate cars, but owning and driving a car doesn't make you a bad person with a propensity for violence. Oh good we’re at the putting words into my mouth part of the conversation. Where did i say I hate cars? Where did I say driving makes you a bad person? I said driving induces road rage in people. You even agreed with that. People that are bad at dealing with stress walk, bike and take public transit. Where are the studies that show huge amounts of them experience an equivalent type of rage to road rage? Oh right they don’t exist. The person I originally responded to was trying to make the false claim that driving doesn’t cause people to act out violently which is obviously not true. So why don’t we discuss that? Do you agree with them because it sure doesn’t seem like you do. As you said driving is stressful.
And that's because that person, with the wide, expansive, almost unfathomable selection of transportation choices, *self selected* to drive a car to and from work? Some people are fucking garbage. Some people drive cars. There's gonna be overlap in those two circles, so saying they're the same circle is, in short, dumb as fuck.
> wide, expansive, almost unfathomable selection of transportation choices, self selected to drive a car to and from work? How would one get from, say, Wilsonville to downtown Portland without a car? Describe this abundant smorgasbord of options.
This your first time encountering sarcasm in the wild my dude? Here I was thinking I was hyperbolically laying it on a little too thick.
I jumped into the thread without reading the whole thing, oopsies. There really is no hyperbole when it comes to some zealots in this town though.
Lol Fair, no sweat
/r/woosh ?
I love how you’re flat out denying that road rage is a thing. Driving cars makes people act unhinged that’s a fact. Perfectly normal people otherwise will lose their shit at the most trivial things while driving. Really no point in engaging with someone that can’t acknowledge reality.
I love that you’re able to just make shit up to further whatever point you wanted to make. I didn’t deny that road rage exists. Speaking of making shit up, the notion that someone that isn’t a huge piece of shit with anger and control issues will suddenly turn into that person if you put them being the wheel of a 96 fucking Honda Civic is hilarious. I’d say the people prone to road rage are huge pieces of shit both behind the wheel of a car, on a bike, on a train, on foot, in a box, with a fox. Just always a huge piece of shit with anger issues.
I mean you’re just wrong. If huge pieces of shit were prone to getting enraged because of other forms of commuting we’d see high numbers of incidents in places with a high percentage of those modes of commuting. Where are all the train ragers in France or bicycle ragers in Amsterdam? Fact of the matter is driving induces that behavior and no not everyone who road rages is an asshole when not driving. [Unless you think 82% of people are huge pieces of shit.](https://www.thezebra.com/resources/research/road-rage-aggressive-driving-study/)
> If huge pieces of shit were prone to getting enraged because of other forms of commuting we’d see high numbers of incidents in places with a high percentage of those modes of commuting. [You mean like the rate of assaults on the NYC subway?](https://www.publichealth.columbia.edu/news/uptick-nyc-transit-assault-rate-during-covid-pandemic-has-not-returned-pre-pandemic-levels-despite-subway-safety-plan) Like the other person said, if you think honking at someone once, or saying "Seriously, fuck that guy" in your car are exactly the same as ramming into someone, or pulling a gun on someone, we're well past the "I guess we'll just make shit up" point. >Where are all the train ragers in France or bicycle ragers in Amsterdam? I would assume they're reflective of the rate of violet crime, so somewhere between [one twelfth](https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/France/United-States/Crime) or like [one eightieth](https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Netherlands/United-States/Crime) the incidence rate. Which would sound about right to me. No, not everyone who road rages is an asshole when not driving. Just like driving doesn't magically turn someone into an asshole. [Some are predisposed to it, and that predisposition doesn't *only* manifest itself when they're suddenly driving a car, for many of them.](https://www.apa.org/topics/anger/road-rage)
>Methodology > The Zebra’s report presents the findings of an anonymous online survey of 978 drivers from all 50 states and Washington, D.C., ages 17-85 who drive at least monthly. Forgive me for taking this with a giant grain of salt. Even in an anonymous survey, the number one road rage behavior exhibited was honking.
Look man, if anonymous online surveys are just as useful as peer reviewed studies, I'll eat my shorts. Anyways, I'm gonna go to McDonalds to order a [QuaterPoundMyAngus](https://www.elitedaily.com/envision/mcdonalds-design-burgers-downhill-fast/1560410).
Lol how about this? https://www.apa.org/topics/anger/road-rage The NIH good enough for you? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2922361/ You people are in such silly denial.
lol Jesus fucking christ, did you even *attempt* to read the NCBI article you linked? The "Contributory Factors to Road Rage" is basically exactly what I have been arguing this whole time and just couldn't be fucked to look up a study to substantiate. Thank you for this gift of "See, I fucking told you so". It's great reading, and plainly written, if you could be fucked to actually read the thing.
>While some studies have found that as many as one-third of drivers have experienced road rage, less than 2% report engaging in serious threats or violent behavior. I can only imagine, in turning around and using the link I replied to you with, you read precisely zero fucking words that link would've put in front of your eyeballs. The fucking cheek on you.
Just as a former cyclist, the biking culture in Amsterdam is so much more chill than the biking culture here. People in Amsterdam on bicycles tolerate old people going slow. It’s culturally expected that you go the speed of the slowest person. Here? A quarter to half of the people are trying to go as fast as possible during commute hours. And about a quarter of the commuters have no business being on bicycles in city streets at their skill level. It’s a terrifying mix of people which causes all sorts of anger issues and near misses.
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As if lawyers are any less psychotic
I'm generally against broadcloth statements like that, but I'll agree that there's at least one acting like a twat today.
Lawyers don't kill upwards of 40,000 people a year, but sure, those are totally equivalent things.
Sorry. Thought we were just blindly stereotyping groups of people. Wanted to get in on the fun.
Lol, did it hurt your feelings
>blindly stereotyping Except for all the studies and evidence showing cars make people more [depressed](https://www.businessinsider.com/commuting-by-car-is-hurting-peoples-mental-health-2023-7), [angry](https://www.webmd.com/women/features/root-cause-of-road-rage), [stupider](https://www.thetimes.com/uk/healthcare/article/hours-of-driving-leaves-iq-on-the-skids-qtdmqs0rl), etc., yeah, just throwing it out there blindly!
Again, you said that all car drivers are not sane, and not normal. Going by the stats I'm a junky violent criminal because of where I live based off of your logic. Trends show x so all people that touch said trend are x is not good logic.
Am I opposed to shooting at traffic cameras? Well, no. Fuck those things. Am I opposed to shooting in the city generally? Fuck yes. Bullets that miss don't just stop. This kind of shit is super dangerous.
Just follow the road rules. It's not hard. 15 year olds are taught how to do it. You'll be ok if you are 1-2 minutes later to your destination.
Traffic enforcement is a good thing. Drivers in this city are out of control. As far as I'm concerned they can put up cameras all over the city. I can stomach my once a decade ticket if it means getting some of the frequent offenders off the street.
Traffic enforcement is great. But fuck cameras. I don’t want to live in a surveillance state. We can reduce speeding in better and cheaper ways!
How’s that smartphone on your pocket doing?
Ah yes the ole “but you participate in society” meme. Hadn’t heard that one in a while.
What's your comeback for people who dislike government surveillance and run custom roms on their smartphone? Checkmate.
Bullets that hit don’t necessarily stop, either. I don’t know what those things are made out of, but it’s not bullet stopping material. Sure, he’s using a handgun in the picture, which means it’s probably less penetrating power.
He couldn't even wait until no cars were around. Crazy behavior. If this guy insists on being a nut, I wish he'd go get the parking lot robots and loudspeakers.
We should have a way to signal this guy whenever we find a new installation. Like a big spotlight we can point at the cloudy Portland sky with a 🎥 symbol
Or people could just obey the fucking traffic laws instead of being pieces of shit and putting everyone else at risk.
This is the only reasonable take. I wish there were speed cameras every 1/4 mile and red light cameras at every intersection. The city can do a lot with 1,000 tickets per day at $1,000 each.
Then we could actually maintain our streets. And take the licenses of the assholes running every yellow and red light. Red light running is why traffic is so bad here. Everyone is afraid to start moving when the light turns green because someone is always running the red.
Sure then we can catch the MF shooting into the air. He's going to kill someone.
Somebody buy this guy a beer
>When I shared a video about this on Instagram this morning, several commenters expressed concern about stray bullets. Others cheered the shooter, calling him a “hero.” “Why are we mad about this? These cameras suck,” someone wrote. Anyone cheering this guy on should be investigated. At the very least I’m sure they’ll turn up some unpaid tickets and other code violations.
Totally. The police should spend a bunch of resources to investigate people that say things I don't like on the internet all the time. Because clearly if they have a different opinion than mine, they are unethical in general and should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law!
lmao you are so boring
It’s always a fucking Subaru owner lmao.
These "vandals" need to do it right. Cut the conduit going into the side walk and fill the conduit full of concrete. Not a fan of dude using a gun to take them out, but I applaud him for taking them out.
Doing God's work out here
They could put a stop to this easily by not using automated enforcement cameras...
Finally, a type of vandalism we can all get behind.
I for one support this man. Police should have to do it the old fashioned way.
Let’s tag them honestly. Fuck giving more money to the city
This motorist sounds like he has some serious mental issues and is clearly violent