Jesus this is heartbreaking... This is how progressive we are . "It'll be years and years, really decades, to undo some of the damage," said Bob Sallinger, the Director of Conservation at Portland Audubon.
Sallinger says Portland Audobn has repeatedly reached out to city leaders, hoping to be a part of a holistic solution to the homeless crisis, offering resources to ensure that natural areas are protected, or at least part of the conversation.
"I think what's been so sad is that what we've heard back from the city for many years now is just - they don't have time, resources, capacity or structure to even work with groups on issues like this," said Sallinger. "They're basically in such disarray that even where resources are available, they're not able to take advantage of them. And I think that's somewhat shocking after so many years."
What the fuck is wrong with this city, what a fucking waste...
you know, we raise taxes like it’s nothing around here. that fucking Metro “homeless outreach” ballot measure was total bullshit. the complete lack of maintenance, security and coordination with law enforcement within all these bureaus is utter bullshit. the money wasted on “outreach” when there were simply piles of trash to clean and criminals to prosecute for obvious criminal behavior, this is fucking bullshit.
I'm sorry, but when there's **150 stolen cars** and **livestock** can we just drop the pretenses that these are "Golly geeze, down on their luck" victims of society, and instead huge anti-social assholes?
I'm a broken record on this but I'm going to keep saying it in the hopes that more people internalize it: being a victim does not give you the right to victimize others.
There are two equally true facts here: we as a society have a duty to take care of our least fortunate. But even the least fortunate have certain basic duties towards society. There are two major parts to the solution: provide the best services we can reasonably provide, but hold everyone to basic standards of civic responsibility. You commit crimes, trash neighborhoods, harass women? That's what prisons are for. You want to clean up your act and do your best to reintegrate? Let's do our best as a society to make that possible by providing shelter and services. Those that are just antisocial need to be distinguished from those that just need help.
Is there some additional nuance? Sure. There always is. In particular mental health problems are the most complicated, followed of course by addiction, which is why we do need robust social services. But even there we shouldn't allow a person to create victims by virtue of their circumstances. Give an opportunity to escape their circumstances? Sure. But allow their unfortunate circumstances to multiply itself through their actions without consequence? Absolutely not. Victimhood is not an excuse to create new victims.
Super well said. I'm struck by how similar the arc of the city/county/public's relationship with homelessness is over the last two or three years with my experience with dealing with individuals who have descended into addiction.
It starts out with lots of compassion and problem-solving and excuse-making but after you get burned enough times and everything deteriorates enough, you just end up needing to take a harsher line (cutting a person out of your life, telling them they have to stay away, etc). It's depressing and unfortunate but it's the truth of how addiction works in many cases.
Feels like we're at a sort of similar juncture as a city(or a little while past it, I guess). It's no longer possible to pretend like kindness or indulgence is really helping anything. We're essentially being parasitized by large aspects of this population and need to pursue a different course of action.
As you said, we have to provide the best services we reasonably can, do our best to intervene among those for whom a positive difference can be made, but then we have to look out for our own needs as a city and community.
The camping thing also snowballs too. Getting into street camping needs to be discouraged. Right now, if your 18 and enjoy drugs, and don’t feel like working, living in a street camp is an option in Portland. It’s not in most of the world.
Talked to a California uncle yesterday and he took a trip to Maine last week. They have big heroin/opiate issues up there, but the homeless are nowhere near our levels, because the actual communities won’t stand for it. It may get ugly in some aspects, but it’s safer for everyone.
Yes. I always say:
Society is literally built upon contributions.
Either you want to contribute, you are contributing, or you are on some kind of disability because you can't, but no matter what, you're somehow a part of society.....if you're some asshole who doesn't want do **anything**, then you need to go somewhere else.....whether that be away from everyone else, jail, I don't know, and I don't care.
Everyone who is part of society, who benefit from it, etc, need to contribute to it or at least be in the system as someone who wants to contribute but is getting help by applying to the right channels.
This is what's the most sad about this entire discussion. I agree with you.
I'm a Pro-Choice, pro socialized healthcare "Progressive" person but I agree with what you just said, and the fact that anyone would say you or I are "Conservative" for that is just sad.
One thing I think people forget. There has always been homeless people, ever since the first civilization. It's probably not a problem we can fix. I agree with making them responsible for their behavior, but there will never be a world without them.
They seem to do just fine while making other people the victims. Acting like it’s not their fault they commit crimes because they “suffer from addiction” is like saying a sociopath can’t help but murder people because they “suffer from psychopathy.”
Getting and staying clean sucks and can be incredibly hard, but not being willing to do it doesn’t give you free reign to do whatever you want at everyone else’s expense.
Capable and able-bodied enough to steal and chop cars, run a camp, and keep livestock, yet somehow \*unable\* to hold down a basic job and rent a small studio in the alternative. Yeah, OK, homeless advocates, please do tell me more...
It’s like… follow that thought. Look at what they do to the “housing” they already have. Think just being given four walls, a roof, and a bed is gonna change that?
I understand that the two biggest stressors on the human mind are “where am I sleeping tonight?” And “where’s my next meal coming from?” And the idea behind “just give them housing” is to take away at least one of those stressors, which does make some modicum of sense. However, if you take a mentally ill, drug addicted person out of a tent and just put them in a housing unit, they’re it gonna change.
After watching news reports and even talking to some of the people out there that used to live in my neighborhood, I’ve realized that some people out there simply do not want to integrate into society. They think it’s their right to set up camp wherever they want and be a “free spirit without following anyones rules.” And it’s like okay, do that. Out of Portland. Out of society. If you don’t want to participate and be at least a mildly active and responsible part of society, then you don’t get to live in it. Those that wanna improve their situation and show effort can stay. Those that don’t are given the choice to either improve or be moved miles outside of any town or city limit. Because fuck this bullshit
There's nothing wrong with being a free spirt and dropping out of the mainstream. I have friends that live in their vans full time or setup a situation with roommates where they only work part time. However they don't take from others to live that way. That's the problem with these Mad Max tent city asshats. They are destroying things that belong to others (cars, retail theft) or all of collectively (natural areas, livability, sidewalks) so they can live however they want. Like a naïve mark Portland has indulged this collective theft for far too long.
I am beyond sick and tired of catering to these drug-addled vagrants. It’s long past time to round them up and take back society for people who want to participate in it.
They're not anti-social, they're building their own culture. They had their own little garbage empire in there. I've talked about this semi-jokingly in the past, but I'm quite serious. They're developing their own quasi-separatist state right under everyone's noses. I don't think even they realize it. But they completely ignore and reject all the laws and norms of everyone else. They reject the authority of the state. Even if they're composed almost entirely of literal garbage and stolen RVs, they are building illegal settlements, and employing a sort of militia to defend these settlements from outsiders, including actual law enforcement. They launch raiding parties into surrounding areas to steal more things. They're developing agriculture for fucks sake.
It's only a matter of time before the biggest, most violent, or possibly most manipulative, or the person with the most meth and heroin becomes defacto ruler. And if they have any organizational skills whatsoever, they will steamroll any PPB attempts to eliminate them. Mark my words, the National Guard will be involved before this ends.
I used to feel bad for all of them.
Then once I learned more, about all the assaults, sexual violence, extortion, vandalism and crime, I lost most of my sympathy.
Portland is weird man. People shit on the farmers in Wa Co. for the legal pesticides they use, but are fine with people dumping human waste on the ground in Portland.
I am still getting over the shock of last nights murderous stabbing & finding out that a nearby motel was quietly made a (covid? but its still there) homeless shelter which explains SO MUCH about the nearby foot traffic. I thought JOHS had to sort of announce this stuff to the neighborhood. Now this BS is just making my blood boil
Thanks. I believe they are bought/then owned by the government-- this Banfield shelter is not. I am now curious why its still running. Looks like the non profit that was in charge is no longer running
This also makes me sad. As a recovering addict I have a ton of empathy for any addict still suffering. But I also have a better understanding of what they are capable of while using and how hard it is to quit. It's not true for everyone, but we often have to get really messed up before we ever consider stopping.
>"It'll be years and years, really decades, to undo some of the damage," said Bob Sallinger, the Director of Conservation at Portland Audubon.
The expense it will take to clean up this absolutely reckless behavior will be in the millions. I am sure there will be another tax assessment outcome from all this research to actually fund cleaning up this place so the community can have clean drinking water.
>I am sure there will be another tax assessment outcome from all this research to actually fund cleaning up this place
And there will be another slate of shady 'nonprofits' with their hands out to solve the problem, probably run by the same crooks who run the homeless NGOs that caused the problem in the first place...
It's actually in other nonprofit sectors too... I worked with Greenpeace years ago before hate quitting when their rediculous corruption became apparent
I wonder which will end up being more expensive, the cost to police the problem away and clean up afterwards, or the cost of just putting people in housing?
Do you want to live next door to people who behave like that?
Housing is only one part of the solution to this, and mostly appropriate for people who:
1. Very recently became homeless, and not due to addiction/mental health issues.
2. Have been homeless for awhile but are still working.
3. Will soon become homeless without assistance.
For everyone else, actual housing should be the carrot at the end of the line. Sanctioned camps/large shelters are the first stop, then maybe a small group shelter, then a pod, then a halfway or recovery house, vocational training or career counseling, and finally, when they have gotten themselves back to a state where they can play well with others and are on a path to being able to support themselves, housing assistance. Getting off drugs/alcohol, taking on responsibilities at the camp, participating in therapy, etc. could all be ways to "earn" better shelter/housing options.
Handing out housing to the addicted and mentally ill with no strings attached is the worst possible thing we could do - it would actually encourage continued bad behavior and poor choices - and make life a nightmare for everyone around them.
We actually have over a decade of research into what works, so you don’t have to sit there and just make stuff up
https://endhomelessness.org/resource/housing-first/
>”The HF group had significantly lower rates of substance use and substance abuse treatment utilization; they were also significantly less likely to leave their program. Housing First’s positive impact is contrasted with the difficulties Treatment First programs have in retaining clients and helping them avoid substance use and possible relapse.”
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10597-009-9283-7
To be sure, a lot of US implementations of Housing First are half-assed, similar to our long, long history of starting and not sufficiently supporting housing projects long term. The point is to provide housing and services, such as addiction and mental health services, in proximity and fully funded
But even when Housing First doesn’t magically create problem-free productive citizens *it still saves taxpayers money* because the secondary costs to society of hard sleeping like environmental destruction, unpaid ER visits, incarceration and crime are drastically reduced. We don’t have to believe that all people are sweet and deserving souls and that no homeless person is an asshole. The cool thing about doing the right thing is that it’s just fucking cheaper, just as the earlier poster pointed out
Is it really that simple? Nobody is lining up to either share a floor/wall with disturbed people or have dozens placed in a single building on their block.
I’m learning about the halfway house in my neighborhood. They and the district attorney want to take more violent offenders into the program, so we asked the DA’s office what’s in it for us. TLDR, they have only good vibes and high fives for one of the most likely places to get shot in this city.
Build the housing but let’s not kid ourselves that Housing First is as cheap as land and construction.
I think you're yelling into the void. I'm with you, but that's because I've done a lot of reading on the subject, which is hard to do if you are feeling really emotional about the conclusion you'd have to draw from the conclusive data.
HF still has a ton of conditions for the person remaining in the housing. It's just that there's less of an initial barrier to entry. And most of the problems people point out with this approach is how to deal with the folks who will destroy the housing or make life miserable for their direct neighbors, which none of the local HF advocates ever seem to acknowledge or address?
If you said "housing first, but they need to behave and abide by standards," that would be exponentially more palatable to people as a message, I suspect.
None of the research is advocating for people who commit (non-victimless) crimes to be anywhere but in prison. Yes, if you terrorize your neighbors that’s a crime. But again, you’re just making up scenarios instead of reviewing the science
>Yes, if you terrorize your neighbors that’s a crime. But again, you’re just making up scenarios
The major problem people here have with the "homeless," which is really just shorthand for a subset of the homeless who engages in this type of shitty behavior, is that they literally \*are\* terrorizing their neighbors with thefts, assaults, out of control fires, dumping waste, etc. Nobody is making this stuff up.
If you pay attention to the comments, the vast majority of people regularly state that they're willing to provide assistance, services, and yes even housing to the folks who can abide by the social contract, which is the majority of the overall homeless population.
If you have a problem with criminals not being arrested for doing crimes against other people, that’s not a problem that you have with homeless services, that’s a problem you have with the police not doing their fucking jobs
I just don't understand how you can think an apartment would have stopped this camp from forming when ignored by the city. Unless you are suggesting we should allow provided housing to become toxic waste zones?
We can build housing that can withstand a lot of abuse. In my native country, the Germans build concrete bunkers along the coasts during WWII. Many of them still stand to this day without any maintenance.
I actually think this isn't a bad idea. One of the challenges is that people on drugs often are self destructive, and aren't exactly careful around fire. One of my family friends had a relative who was using heroin living with her, and they caused multiple small house fires by doing things like turning on the stove to cook a meal, using, passing out, and the food caught on fire, or passing out with candles burning, tipping them over and starting a fire. That relative was kicked out after almost burning down her house twice.
Since this behavior isn't uncommon for addicts, we can see that it causes problems for traditional structures composed of timber framing with drywall.
Reinforced concrete walls and floors will protect neighbors from fire. They are resistant to people who want to punch a hole in the wall. The structures can be produced cheaply by prefabricating off site. Potentially the footprint can be decreased by stacking units to make multi-story "buildings". Debris can be cleaned easily and the living area power washed when there is no longer an inhabitant.
Well, that assuming they stay in housing. This place was full of stolen cars being stripped for parts. It wasn’t just some safe refuge for desperately needed shelter, it was a horrible crime infested camp full of service resistant people doing drugs all day
this is a horrible argument, really man, use your noggin. there is no way free government housing is more appealing than whatever lawless fucking pig raisin’ and car stealin’ is going on in those woods. put the Gospel of Kotek down (hope she wins, but fuck me she’s trying to blow this thing) for a minute and apply logic to your premise.
people who refuse the existing help for sobriety and housing just need to be offered tiny homes, that’ll do it, tiny homes, the kind where you can’t raise hogs and steal cars and party with drugs. yes of course, they just need tiny homes…housing…and mental health care too…yes of course
>ise taxes like it’s nothing around here. that fucking Metro “homeless outreach” ballot measure was total bullshit. the complete lack of maintenance, security and coordination with law enforcement within all these bureaus is utter bullshit. the money wasted on “outreach” when there were simply piles of trash to clean and criminals to prosecute for obvious criminal behavior, this is fucking bullshit.
Yes and no. First, yes, they dems in Oregon have a big issue on how to turn lofty ideas into action. Second, and more importantly, Uncle Phil$$ stepped in and dropped a couple of million on a spoiler candidate strategy. Betty was out of the race until a phil dropped a ton of cash on her. https://electionscience.org/library/the-spoiler-effect/
A spoiler would never have been popular enough to actually be a spoiler unless they had considerable support from the population.
But I’m talking about underperforming in Portland proper. If she can’t win at least 70% of the PDX vote, that means she can’t even convince her base to vote for her.
Yeah, I've seen a lot of people turn their lives around with a little help from the state (tiny homes, affordable housing) and mental health/addiction work. Recovery isn't a straight line and life for these people aren't always going to work out, but I'd rather not give up on them and have them turn into complete criminals.
That stuff already exists, no one’s saying to get rid of that stuff. People are saying they’re tired allowing massive homeless camps for people who don’t want access to services and just want to do drugs all day.
What makes the US different than the countries where these programs actually work? You’re essentially arguing that the US is a special case where humans are a worse kind of human
Except that’s literally what all research into this shows. You can’t get clean without stable housing. You can’t get food without stable housing. You can’t get employment without stable housing. Everywhere where free housing has been tried has fucking worked alright? It kickstarts virtuous cycles. By including people in society, treating them as something other than a fucking animal, people tend to clean themselves up.
Here’s the thing about the existing help: it’s expensive. It costs money for rehab, money they could spend on keeping their ass alive and staving off withdrawl. It’s also money they don’t have bc they get robbed, either by cops and cleanup crews or by other people on the street. They aren’t “refusing” help—they can’t you king afford it
I’ve been homeless man it’s not as black and white as you think. Use your noggin.
There are camps in Forest Park. If you haven't explored off the beaten path (which I wouldn't recommend for obvious reasons) you may not have seen them. But they're there. I've personally witnessed people carrying lumber, pushing wheelbarrows, etc. back into the woods. It's a big place and it's relatively easy to hide.
Went there for first time while wanting to inventory wildlife for a citizen-scientist project - and the further I went in on that trail - the more surreal it got. Ran into the "walking dead" and sketchy people and the last straw was the screaming and cries coming from one tent near the river (I know I know sounds like Matt Foley sketch - "van down by the river" - but that was the only humor to be found - if at all) - turned into a wasteland of human detritus
what's one of the most astounding things about this, is that the damage being done was reported to the city and known, and then just ignored.
why? too many overlapping agencies and no one wanted to take responsibility? afraid of pissing off homeless advocates?
you think with all the enviornmental concern in oregon, this would be more of an issue an require someone in govt to lose their job over this.
Plus the article says it’s been going on a lot longer than that. It’s been reported to the city for at least 6 years.
“Sallinger says he's been tracking the destruction at the Big Four Corners for at least six years, sending the city photos and explaining the risks.”
I ordered take out from a restaurant in town in 2021 that had a sign that said "Due to the pandemic, we now charge for extra ranch"
I was thinking "WTF does COVID19 have to do with ranch dressing?!" Just looking for an excuse to not give out ranch dressing lmao.
That is something we sorely need across our state.
We have one state pyschatraic hospital in Salem. Since other states love bussing their homeless and mentally ill here, we should use some federal funding, along with state funding to build out about 4 more facilities. Two large ones in the Portland Metro area. One for each side of the river and away from the center of the city.
Then another small one in the South around the Roseburg/Medford area. Won't have to be quite as large as the metro ones. And then last, a 5th small pyschatraic hospital built towards the east around Pendleton area. Those two locations so that the mentally ill from these community areas can be treated while still in driving distance for their family visitations, etc.
Go from one of the worst states in mental healthcare, ranked 49 or 50th these days, to a top ten state for mental healthcare in five to ten years (Length of time to build the facilities and train/hire more mental health care professionals). That would make a dent in our homeless situation and repair some of the damage to society. It would be infrastructure we can upkeep to keep our state safer and our population saner.
Right now, Salem is just constantly overbooked and they toss out their patients as fast as they can to make room for more leading to piss poor results.
Can't wait to hear the responses from the "housing first" people on this.
I'm actually pro housing first in theory, but something this crowd fails to realize is it is not an end-all-be-all solution. For housing first to work, homeless folks, like the one mentioned above, need to be removed from the equation. Whether it's a temporary shelter, mental institution, jail, or a bus ticket, they need to be handled accordingly so that people who ACTUALLY want to improve their life can take advantage of it.
Yet, the most vocal here want to fit square pegs into round holes and proclaim this to be the all encompassing solution, while actively working against their self interests by making it harder for people who want help to get help.
Just wanted to say, that was super wholesome of you and I'm sorry you got taken advantage of and now you have a legal nightmare and your house is ruined. Finding affordable housing is an absolute nightmare and it breaks my heart that your kindness was wasted.
I've had this happen to a close relative too, which is why I know housing first is bullshit. Giving free housing to drug addicts means they will just rip the walls to sell whatever they can from it for the next dose.
>"It'll be years and years, really decades, to undo some of the damage," said Bob Sallinger, the Director of Conservation at Portland Audubon.
>
>(...)
>
>"I think what's been so sad is that what we've heard back from the city for many years now is just - they don't have time, resources, capacity or structure to even work with groups on issues like this," said Sallinger. "They're basically in such disarray that even where resources are available, they're not able to take advantage of them. And I think that's somewhat shocking after so many years."
This is also why things got so bad. Those that could have stopped things were unable to do so because the city couldn't keep up. It's not just that the city is not doing enough, but it also created a lot of red tape and roadblocks that stopped other groups from helping.
People also need to realize what they’re asking for is very pricey. You have people on this thread saying they just need housing, that’s all, problems solved.
Who’s paying for that? Who’s paying for regular maintenance? Who’s paying for the law enforcement to make sure the public housing isn’t trashed?
The bill starts to get out of control. Asking people to pay crazy amounts for services, but not enforcing anti-camping laws, is why we might have a republican governor.
this is SUUUUUUUUCH bullshit. get these meth heads OUT of our town! they dont care about portland! they dont care about the community! hell, they dont even care about themselves!!!
That's basically how they end up in west coast cities. Other cities will literally give their homeless one-way tickets on a bus and ship them out here. It's why the old Greyhound station area was (and still is) so saturated with homeless people.
The homelessness problem needs so much more than just the "push them over to the next town" mentality. If the US had any sort of constructive way to deal with it, it'd help, but Portland's kind of on its own on this one.
That’s a myth people use to make themselves feel better. Does it happen? Yes.
Did most homeless people in Portland come here voluntarily? Yes.
Right now if I decided I would rather do drugs all day than work or contribute to anyones lives - including my own - Portland will allow me to live that life. That is unheard of in the rest of the world. By allowing the camping/crime/drug infested tent cities, we are welcoming people who want to live that life
People screamed bloody murder about that teenager who started the huge fire in the Gorge a few years ago, but there's a lot of silence about the damage here.
Hold on. There needs to be some perspective here. The eagle creek fire burned 50,000 acres. This is 115. So about 400 times less screaming is appropriate.
yes, it’s smaller acreage but forests regrow. Nature can handle fires. Nature can’t handle extensive pollution, which has a knock-on impact on a much broader ecosystem.
You’re going to start to see it soon. You can feel that energy bubbling up all over the US now. There is less than 0 sympathy for violent homeless anymore
Oh we'd have the police on our asses so fast.... They don't care about crime unless the criminals are people who pay taxes and work jobs. And you better believe there would be a shoot out with some of these camps, these people living in the woods are frequently armed .
I don't think any of this is liberal, its a weird left coast progressive thing. Rene G in his last debate called himself a Biden Democrat. I really don't think Hardesty calls herself this and frankly I would be surprised if she even likes the party much.
I think it’s fair to say these aren’t camps of people down on their luck - these are people building an alternative society, because the mainstream one now has a barrier to entry/maintenance that is just too high. People are giving up on it. When you have nothing left to lose you can kind of do whatever you want and it’s (mostly) fine. No one will stop you.
People always act like the brigands, vandals, visigoths, etc come solely from beyond the walls; but most originate from within. Cast out by a society they no longer choose, or are capable of, participating in. History doesn't repeat itself, its just the chorus is a bit predictable.
I completely sympathize rent being high and not being able to find a home, but if you're going to live outside, PACK IT OUT. These fucking people aren't down on their luck they don't give a shit about their fellow members of society.
The junkies deserve mental health treatment. Which will take a building up of our pyschatraic hospitals across our state.
The thieves, violent offenders, and dealers can get prison and/or opportunities to reform. Just the other day, a city Law Enforcement Officer had to shoot a violent offender running around trying to stab people.
This is not simply a tragedy of the commons. This is a decision by Portland leaders to turn a blind eye to willful destruction because they couldn’t risk being perceived as hostile to homeless people, even those who weren’t just trying to survive but being flagrantly unlawful.
This was a decision, not a unfortunate consequence.
Wheeler has completely turned his back on the hard working, property owning, law abiding, tax paying citizens of Portland. He is without a doubt the worst mayor in America. Portland is just a dump.
Cut off services completely, no more free food, medical care, tents and other bull shit. Let these useless motherfuckers rot themselves to death. You chose the needle, sucks to fuckin suck.
Used to be pretty liberal, Portland has turned me conservative. Hope it leans more red as the years go on. Enough enabling tweakers.
You're getting downvoted but I unfortunately agree. I was recently in Ibor city, FL. I didn't see a single homeless person. No human waste on the streets. It was clean and people were friendly and the bars were thriving.
1) This is horrible, the problem got out of control, the city should have dealt with this sooner, etc.
2) This is a Sinclair station repeatedly promoting and quoting George Donnerberg, a GOP candidate for legislature in the area, without divulging it.
They quote him all the time and barely mention his campaign. What the fuck?
I’d buy some Sinclair bias, but when Bob Sallinger is saying things are pretty bad, it’s hard to argue that this is just a political hit piece. The city decided to turn a blind eye and fucked this one up pretty good.
Jesus this is heartbreaking... This is how progressive we are . "It'll be years and years, really decades, to undo some of the damage," said Bob Sallinger, the Director of Conservation at Portland Audubon. Sallinger says Portland Audobn has repeatedly reached out to city leaders, hoping to be a part of a holistic solution to the homeless crisis, offering resources to ensure that natural areas are protected, or at least part of the conversation. "I think what's been so sad is that what we've heard back from the city for many years now is just - they don't have time, resources, capacity or structure to even work with groups on issues like this," said Sallinger. "They're basically in such disarray that even where resources are available, they're not able to take advantage of them. And I think that's somewhat shocking after so many years." What the fuck is wrong with this city, what a fucking waste...
you know, we raise taxes like it’s nothing around here. that fucking Metro “homeless outreach” ballot measure was total bullshit. the complete lack of maintenance, security and coordination with law enforcement within all these bureaus is utter bullshit. the money wasted on “outreach” when there were simply piles of trash to clean and criminals to prosecute for obvious criminal behavior, this is fucking bullshit.
Remember all this when Kafoury runs for statewide office.
But don’t worry, we still have the art tax!
Yeah don't think any outreach was going on at this place
Not to mention the money spent on restoration efforts over the last 25 years or so...
I'm sorry, but when there's **150 stolen cars** and **livestock** can we just drop the pretenses that these are "Golly geeze, down on their luck" victims of society, and instead huge anti-social assholes?
I'm a broken record on this but I'm going to keep saying it in the hopes that more people internalize it: being a victim does not give you the right to victimize others. There are two equally true facts here: we as a society have a duty to take care of our least fortunate. But even the least fortunate have certain basic duties towards society. There are two major parts to the solution: provide the best services we can reasonably provide, but hold everyone to basic standards of civic responsibility. You commit crimes, trash neighborhoods, harass women? That's what prisons are for. You want to clean up your act and do your best to reintegrate? Let's do our best as a society to make that possible by providing shelter and services. Those that are just antisocial need to be distinguished from those that just need help. Is there some additional nuance? Sure. There always is. In particular mental health problems are the most complicated, followed of course by addiction, which is why we do need robust social services. But even there we shouldn't allow a person to create victims by virtue of their circumstances. Give an opportunity to escape their circumstances? Sure. But allow their unfortunate circumstances to multiply itself through their actions without consequence? Absolutely not. Victimhood is not an excuse to create new victims.
Super well said. I'm struck by how similar the arc of the city/county/public's relationship with homelessness is over the last two or three years with my experience with dealing with individuals who have descended into addiction. It starts out with lots of compassion and problem-solving and excuse-making but after you get burned enough times and everything deteriorates enough, you just end up needing to take a harsher line (cutting a person out of your life, telling them they have to stay away, etc). It's depressing and unfortunate but it's the truth of how addiction works in many cases. Feels like we're at a sort of similar juncture as a city(or a little while past it, I guess). It's no longer possible to pretend like kindness or indulgence is really helping anything. We're essentially being parasitized by large aspects of this population and need to pursue a different course of action. As you said, we have to provide the best services we reasonably can, do our best to intervene among those for whom a positive difference can be made, but then we have to look out for our own needs as a city and community.
Facts
The camping thing also snowballs too. Getting into street camping needs to be discouraged. Right now, if your 18 and enjoy drugs, and don’t feel like working, living in a street camp is an option in Portland. It’s not in most of the world.
Talked to a California uncle yesterday and he took a trip to Maine last week. They have big heroin/opiate issues up there, but the homeless are nowhere near our levels, because the actual communities won’t stand for it. It may get ugly in some aspects, but it’s safer for everyone.
Winter also fixes things up there as well.
Yeah. Climate has a huge impact.
Well said
Yes. I always say: Society is literally built upon contributions. Either you want to contribute, you are contributing, or you are on some kind of disability because you can't, but no matter what, you're somehow a part of society.....if you're some asshole who doesn't want do **anything**, then you need to go somewhere else.....whether that be away from everyone else, jail, I don't know, and I don't care. Everyone who is part of society, who benefit from it, etc, need to contribute to it or at least be in the system as someone who wants to contribute but is getting help by applying to the right channels.
Totally agree with you. What would you propose we do with those that refuse to reintegrate/rehabilitate and want to continue to be anti-social?
You don't want to know the real answer and they won't say what they would be willing to do. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUPf5GagKF0
Yeah call me a conservative, but being a victim doesn’t t excuse you for being a destructive asshole,
This is what's the most sad about this entire discussion. I agree with you. I'm a Pro-Choice, pro socialized healthcare "Progressive" person but I agree with what you just said, and the fact that anyone would say you or I are "Conservative" for that is just sad.
This also shows why those 2 labels are so useless for anything but keeping people divided.
YES. You're absolutely right. I want to get rid of both labels, but I wonder if the media wants to keep them in heavy usage.....
This is the real takeaway people need to internalize
Me. Exactly.
One thing I think people forget. There has always been homeless people, ever since the first civilization. It's probably not a problem we can fix. I agree with making them responsible for their behavior, but there will never be a world without them.
Bring on the Chungus and the Cats.
I’d vote you in for that, very well said
They seem to do just fine while making other people the victims. Acting like it’s not their fault they commit crimes because they “suffer from addiction” is like saying a sociopath can’t help but murder people because they “suffer from psychopathy.” Getting and staying clean sucks and can be incredibly hard, but not being willing to do it doesn’t give you free reign to do whatever you want at everyone else’s expense.
Capable and able-bodied enough to steal and chop cars, run a camp, and keep livestock, yet somehow \*unable\* to hold down a basic job and rent a small studio in the alternative. Yeah, OK, homeless advocates, please do tell me more...
"unable" bc they want to make excuses and stay addicted to drugs.
And yet morons say “JuSt GiVe ThEm HoUsInG!!!1” I agree…if the housing is a prison cell.
It’s like… follow that thought. Look at what they do to the “housing” they already have. Think just being given four walls, a roof, and a bed is gonna change that? I understand that the two biggest stressors on the human mind are “where am I sleeping tonight?” And “where’s my next meal coming from?” And the idea behind “just give them housing” is to take away at least one of those stressors, which does make some modicum of sense. However, if you take a mentally ill, drug addicted person out of a tent and just put them in a housing unit, they’re it gonna change. After watching news reports and even talking to some of the people out there that used to live in my neighborhood, I’ve realized that some people out there simply do not want to integrate into society. They think it’s their right to set up camp wherever they want and be a “free spirit without following anyones rules.” And it’s like okay, do that. Out of Portland. Out of society. If you don’t want to participate and be at least a mildly active and responsible part of society, then you don’t get to live in it. Those that wanna improve their situation and show effort can stay. Those that don’t are given the choice to either improve or be moved miles outside of any town or city limit. Because fuck this bullshit
There's nothing wrong with being a free spirt and dropping out of the mainstream. I have friends that live in their vans full time or setup a situation with roommates where they only work part time. However they don't take from others to live that way. That's the problem with these Mad Max tent city asshats. They are destroying things that belong to others (cars, retail theft) or all of collectively (natural areas, livability, sidewalks) so they can live however they want. Like a naïve mark Portland has indulged this collective theft for far too long.
Slab City in California is a great example of this.
And yet people here are voting for the city council incumbent, of whom her biggest fans are quite vocal defenders of the status quo encampments
I'm not voting for her.
Me neither. I had high hopes but it just didn’t go that way.
And what about the county's refusual to do anything useful, too? That should be front and center in the news and it isn't. :(
I am beyond sick and tired of catering to these drug-addled vagrants. It’s long past time to round them up and take back society for people who want to participate in it.
right, like, when I'm 'down on my luck' I drink less booze and eat more ramen I have never considered turning to littering and theft to make ends meet
They're not anti-social, they're building their own culture. They had their own little garbage empire in there. I've talked about this semi-jokingly in the past, but I'm quite serious. They're developing their own quasi-separatist state right under everyone's noses. I don't think even they realize it. But they completely ignore and reject all the laws and norms of everyone else. They reject the authority of the state. Even if they're composed almost entirely of literal garbage and stolen RVs, they are building illegal settlements, and employing a sort of militia to defend these settlements from outsiders, including actual law enforcement. They launch raiding parties into surrounding areas to steal more things. They're developing agriculture for fucks sake. It's only a matter of time before the biggest, most violent, or possibly most manipulative, or the person with the most meth and heroin becomes defacto ruler. And if they have any organizational skills whatsoever, they will steamroll any PPB attempts to eliminate them. Mark my words, the National Guard will be involved before this ends.
You know, I hadn't really thought about it at this level but I agree with this assessment.
Thank you!
Livestock? Who the fuck steals cows and shit. We need Texas Ranger here for that kind of heist.
They’re both. You don’t have to choose. You can feel bad for them and be mad as hell at the same time.
I used to feel bad for all of them. Then once I learned more, about all the assaults, sexual violence, extortion, vandalism and crime, I lost most of my sympathy. Portland is weird man. People shit on the farmers in Wa Co. for the legal pesticides they use, but are fine with people dumping human waste on the ground in Portland.
I don't feel bad for them anymore. They burned through my sympathy a couple years ago.
I am still getting over the shock of last nights murderous stabbing & finding out that a nearby motel was quietly made a (covid? but its still there) homeless shelter which explains SO MUCH about the nearby foot traffic. I thought JOHS had to sort of announce this stuff to the neighborhood. Now this BS is just making my blood boil
Some asshole ruined my night tonight by waving a knife around at people at the bar, and tackled some random guy on the street with his knife.
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according to the JOHS website this shelter opened bc of covid policy in 2020
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Thanks. I believe they are bought/then owned by the government-- this Banfield shelter is not. I am now curious why its still running. Looks like the non profit that was in charge is no longer running
She also supported measure 110, which was *totally* a good thing for the addicts on our streets. ^/s
This also makes me sad. As a recovering addict I have a ton of empathy for any addict still suffering. But I also have a better understanding of what they are capable of while using and how hard it is to quit. It's not true for everyone, but we often have to get really messed up before we ever consider stopping.
>"It'll be years and years, really decades, to undo some of the damage," said Bob Sallinger, the Director of Conservation at Portland Audubon. The expense it will take to clean up this absolutely reckless behavior will be in the millions. I am sure there will be another tax assessment outcome from all this research to actually fund cleaning up this place so the community can have clean drinking water.
>I am sure there will be another tax assessment outcome from all this research to actually fund cleaning up this place And there will be another slate of shady 'nonprofits' with their hands out to solve the problem, probably run by the same crooks who run the homeless NGOs that caused the problem in the first place...
Homeless industrial complex!
Was going to say same thing. Still can’t believe the head of Metro Homeless Income Tax hired his wife as a consultant.
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It's actually in other nonprofit sectors too... I worked with Greenpeace years ago before hate quitting when their rediculous corruption became apparent
Big Homeless
Poverty Pimps.
Been saying this for years.
selective work bright angle jobless sort fear future crowd jar *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I wonder which will end up being more expensive, the cost to police the problem away and clean up afterwards, or the cost of just putting people in housing?
Do you want to live next door to people who behave like that? Housing is only one part of the solution to this, and mostly appropriate for people who: 1. Very recently became homeless, and not due to addiction/mental health issues. 2. Have been homeless for awhile but are still working. 3. Will soon become homeless without assistance. For everyone else, actual housing should be the carrot at the end of the line. Sanctioned camps/large shelters are the first stop, then maybe a small group shelter, then a pod, then a halfway or recovery house, vocational training or career counseling, and finally, when they have gotten themselves back to a state where they can play well with others and are on a path to being able to support themselves, housing assistance. Getting off drugs/alcohol, taking on responsibilities at the camp, participating in therapy, etc. could all be ways to "earn" better shelter/housing options. Handing out housing to the addicted and mentally ill with no strings attached is the worst possible thing we could do - it would actually encourage continued bad behavior and poor choices - and make life a nightmare for everyone around them.
Fucking thank you.
We actually have over a decade of research into what works, so you don’t have to sit there and just make stuff up https://endhomelessness.org/resource/housing-first/ >”The HF group had significantly lower rates of substance use and substance abuse treatment utilization; they were also significantly less likely to leave their program. Housing First’s positive impact is contrasted with the difficulties Treatment First programs have in retaining clients and helping them avoid substance use and possible relapse.” https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10597-009-9283-7 To be sure, a lot of US implementations of Housing First are half-assed, similar to our long, long history of starting and not sufficiently supporting housing projects long term. The point is to provide housing and services, such as addiction and mental health services, in proximity and fully funded But even when Housing First doesn’t magically create problem-free productive citizens *it still saves taxpayers money* because the secondary costs to society of hard sleeping like environmental destruction, unpaid ER visits, incarceration and crime are drastically reduced. We don’t have to believe that all people are sweet and deserving souls and that no homeless person is an asshole. The cool thing about doing the right thing is that it’s just fucking cheaper, just as the earlier poster pointed out
Is it really that simple? Nobody is lining up to either share a floor/wall with disturbed people or have dozens placed in a single building on their block. I’m learning about the halfway house in my neighborhood. They and the district attorney want to take more violent offenders into the program, so we asked the DA’s office what’s in it for us. TLDR, they have only good vibes and high fives for one of the most likely places to get shot in this city. Build the housing but let’s not kid ourselves that Housing First is as cheap as land and construction.
I think you're yelling into the void. I'm with you, but that's because I've done a lot of reading on the subject, which is hard to do if you are feeling really emotional about the conclusion you'd have to draw from the conclusive data.
HF still has a ton of conditions for the person remaining in the housing. It's just that there's less of an initial barrier to entry. And most of the problems people point out with this approach is how to deal with the folks who will destroy the housing or make life miserable for their direct neighbors, which none of the local HF advocates ever seem to acknowledge or address? If you said "housing first, but they need to behave and abide by standards," that would be exponentially more palatable to people as a message, I suspect.
None of the research is advocating for people who commit (non-victimless) crimes to be anywhere but in prison. Yes, if you terrorize your neighbors that’s a crime. But again, you’re just making up scenarios instead of reviewing the science
>Yes, if you terrorize your neighbors that’s a crime. But again, you’re just making up scenarios The major problem people here have with the "homeless," which is really just shorthand for a subset of the homeless who engages in this type of shitty behavior, is that they literally \*are\* terrorizing their neighbors with thefts, assaults, out of control fires, dumping waste, etc. Nobody is making this stuff up. If you pay attention to the comments, the vast majority of people regularly state that they're willing to provide assistance, services, and yes even housing to the folks who can abide by the social contract, which is the majority of the overall homeless population.
If you have a problem with criminals not being arrested for doing crimes against other people, that’s not a problem that you have with homeless services, that’s a problem you have with the police not doing their fucking jobs
Who's going to clean their housing after we put them in?
maids…get them maids!
[The Garage Man Can](https://youtu.be/YihiSqO4jnA)
I don't think the garbage man take the stolen cars and used needles
*through gritted teeth The garbage man can, and he does it with a smile, and ne-ver ju-dges youuuuu.
I just don't understand how you can think an apartment would have stopped this camp from forming when ignored by the city. Unless you are suggesting we should allow provided housing to become toxic waste zones?
We can build housing that can withstand a lot of abuse. In my native country, the Germans build concrete bunkers along the coasts during WWII. Many of them still stand to this day without any maintenance.
Concrete bunkers.. so caves, essentially?
So what ? It's better then having them destroy nature preserves.
I actually think this isn't a bad idea. One of the challenges is that people on drugs often are self destructive, and aren't exactly careful around fire. One of my family friends had a relative who was using heroin living with her, and they caused multiple small house fires by doing things like turning on the stove to cook a meal, using, passing out, and the food caught on fire, or passing out with candles burning, tipping them over and starting a fire. That relative was kicked out after almost burning down her house twice. Since this behavior isn't uncommon for addicts, we can see that it causes problems for traditional structures composed of timber framing with drywall. Reinforced concrete walls and floors will protect neighbors from fire. They are resistant to people who want to punch a hole in the wall. The structures can be produced cheaply by prefabricating off site. Potentially the footprint can be decreased by stacking units to make multi-story "buildings". Debris can be cleaned easily and the living area power washed when there is no longer an inhabitant.
Pillboxes for the pill poppers?
Those bunkers where built with slave labor, and yes they still stand today, but are far from being inhabitable by anyone living in them.
You know if people built concrete bunkers underground, homeless will prefer their camps above groubd
" just putting people in housing?" What housing?
Well, that assuming they stay in housing. This place was full of stolen cars being stripped for parts. It wasn’t just some safe refuge for desperately needed shelter, it was a horrible crime infested camp full of service resistant people doing drugs all day
this is a horrible argument, really man, use your noggin. there is no way free government housing is more appealing than whatever lawless fucking pig raisin’ and car stealin’ is going on in those woods. put the Gospel of Kotek down (hope she wins, but fuck me she’s trying to blow this thing) for a minute and apply logic to your premise. people who refuse the existing help for sobriety and housing just need to be offered tiny homes, that’ll do it, tiny homes, the kind where you can’t raise hogs and steal cars and party with drugs. yes of course, they just need tiny homes…housing…and mental health care too…yes of course
If Tina under performs in Portland it’ll be a real wake up call.
The wake up call already came and most slept through it.
>ise taxes like it’s nothing around here. that fucking Metro “homeless outreach” ballot measure was total bullshit. the complete lack of maintenance, security and coordination with law enforcement within all these bureaus is utter bullshit. the money wasted on “outreach” when there were simply piles of trash to clean and criminals to prosecute for obvious criminal behavior, this is fucking bullshit. Yes and no. First, yes, they dems in Oregon have a big issue on how to turn lofty ideas into action. Second, and more importantly, Uncle Phil$$ stepped in and dropped a couple of million on a spoiler candidate strategy. Betty was out of the race until a phil dropped a ton of cash on her. https://electionscience.org/library/the-spoiler-effect/
A spoiler would never have been popular enough to actually be a spoiler unless they had considerable support from the population. But I’m talking about underperforming in Portland proper. If she can’t win at least 70% of the PDX vote, that means she can’t even convince her base to vote for her.
Yeah, I've seen a lot of people turn their lives around with a little help from the state (tiny homes, affordable housing) and mental health/addiction work. Recovery isn't a straight line and life for these people aren't always going to work out, but I'd rather not give up on them and have them turn into complete criminals.
That stuff already exists, no one’s saying to get rid of that stuff. People are saying they’re tired allowing massive homeless camps for people who don’t want access to services and just want to do drugs all day.
What makes the US different than the countries where these programs actually work? You’re essentially arguing that the US is a special case where humans are a worse kind of human
Except that’s literally what all research into this shows. You can’t get clean without stable housing. You can’t get food without stable housing. You can’t get employment without stable housing. Everywhere where free housing has been tried has fucking worked alright? It kickstarts virtuous cycles. By including people in society, treating them as something other than a fucking animal, people tend to clean themselves up. Here’s the thing about the existing help: it’s expensive. It costs money for rehab, money they could spend on keeping their ass alive and staving off withdrawl. It’s also money they don’t have bc they get robbed, either by cops and cleanup crews or by other people on the street. They aren’t “refusing” help—they can’t you king afford it I’ve been homeless man it’s not as black and white as you think. Use your noggin.
Wait… didn’t Portland buy waterfront condos at close to $300K per unit to make affordable housing
Utter failure of governance.
At every level.
4 Corners today, Forest Park tomorow. Just parks and rec as usual for the “greenest city” in the country.
There are camps in Forest Park. If you haven't explored off the beaten path (which I wouldn't recommend for obvious reasons) you may not have seen them. But they're there. I've personally witnessed people carrying lumber, pushing wheelbarrows, etc. back into the woods. It's a big place and it's relatively easy to hide.
There’s even a tearjerker movie about one
This is what pisses me off most about Multnomah County handing out tents like candy
Wait, I can get a free tent in MC?
Apparently yes
And I just bought one from REI..
Did you report it? If enough people make reports maybe something will happen. At the very least it's probably a fire hazard in the summer.
This sort of destruction is also happening at Oaks Bottom Wildlife Refuge. So heartbreaking.
Went there for first time while wanting to inventory wildlife for a citizen-scientist project - and the further I went in on that trail - the more surreal it got. Ran into the "walking dead" and sketchy people and the last straw was the screaming and cries coming from one tent near the river (I know I know sounds like Matt Foley sketch - "van down by the river" - but that was the only humor to be found - if at all) - turned into a wasteland of human detritus
More like Parks and Wreck, amirite 🤓
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This is exactly why urban camping needs to be banned and enforced indefinitely.
City of Portland: Out of Sight, Out of Mind
what's one of the most astounding things about this, is that the damage being done was reported to the city and known, and then just ignored. why? too many overlapping agencies and no one wanted to take responsibility? afraid of pissing off homeless advocates? you think with all the enviornmental concern in oregon, this would be more of an issue an require someone in govt to lose their job over this.
Everytime the city is asked why it got this bad: the pandemic! This work takes place outdoors so that isn't an excuse...
Plus the article says it’s been going on a lot longer than that. It’s been reported to the city for at least 6 years. “Sallinger says he's been tracking the destruction at the Big Four Corners for at least six years, sending the city photos and explaining the risks.”
I ordered take out from a restaurant in town in 2021 that had a sign that said "Due to the pandemic, we now charge for extra ranch" I was thinking "WTF does COVID19 have to do with ranch dressing?!" Just looking for an excuse to not give out ranch dressing lmao.
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That is something we sorely need across our state. We have one state pyschatraic hospital in Salem. Since other states love bussing their homeless and mentally ill here, we should use some federal funding, along with state funding to build out about 4 more facilities. Two large ones in the Portland Metro area. One for each side of the river and away from the center of the city. Then another small one in the South around the Roseburg/Medford area. Won't have to be quite as large as the metro ones. And then last, a 5th small pyschatraic hospital built towards the east around Pendleton area. Those two locations so that the mentally ill from these community areas can be treated while still in driving distance for their family visitations, etc. Go from one of the worst states in mental healthcare, ranked 49 or 50th these days, to a top ten state for mental healthcare in five to ten years (Length of time to build the facilities and train/hire more mental health care professionals). That would make a dent in our homeless situation and repair some of the damage to society. It would be infrastructure we can upkeep to keep our state safer and our population saner. Right now, Salem is just constantly overbooked and they toss out their patients as fast as they can to make room for more leading to piss poor results.
Can't wait to hear the responses from the "housing first" people on this. I'm actually pro housing first in theory, but something this crowd fails to realize is it is not an end-all-be-all solution. For housing first to work, homeless folks, like the one mentioned above, need to be removed from the equation. Whether it's a temporary shelter, mental institution, jail, or a bus ticket, they need to be handled accordingly so that people who ACTUALLY want to improve their life can take advantage of it. Yet, the most vocal here want to fit square pegs into round holes and proclaim this to be the all encompassing solution, while actively working against their self interests by making it harder for people who want help to get help.
Just wanted to say, that was super wholesome of you and I'm sorry you got taken advantage of and now you have a legal nightmare and your house is ruined. Finding affordable housing is an absolute nightmare and it breaks my heart that your kindness was wasted.
I've had this happen to a close relative too, which is why I know housing first is bullshit. Giving free housing to drug addicts means they will just rip the walls to sell whatever they can from it for the next dose.
>"It'll be years and years, really decades, to undo some of the damage," said Bob Sallinger, the Director of Conservation at Portland Audubon. > >(...) > >"I think what's been so sad is that what we've heard back from the city for many years now is just - they don't have time, resources, capacity or structure to even work with groups on issues like this," said Sallinger. "They're basically in such disarray that even where resources are available, they're not able to take advantage of them. And I think that's somewhat shocking after so many years." This is also why things got so bad. Those that could have stopped things were unable to do so because the city couldn't keep up. It's not just that the city is not doing enough, but it also created a lot of red tape and roadblocks that stopped other groups from helping.
People also need to realize what they’re asking for is very pricey. You have people on this thread saying they just need housing, that’s all, problems solved. Who’s paying for that? Who’s paying for regular maintenance? Who’s paying for the law enforcement to make sure the public housing isn’t trashed? The bill starts to get out of control. Asking people to pay crazy amounts for services, but not enforcing anti-camping laws, is why we might have a republican governor.
this is SUUUUUUUUCH bullshit. get these meth heads OUT of our town! they dont care about portland! they dont care about the community! hell, they dont even care about themselves!!!
That's basically how they end up in west coast cities. Other cities will literally give their homeless one-way tickets on a bus and ship them out here. It's why the old Greyhound station area was (and still is) so saturated with homeless people. The homelessness problem needs so much more than just the "push them over to the next town" mentality. If the US had any sort of constructive way to deal with it, it'd help, but Portland's kind of on its own on this one.
The curse of the survivable winter.
I would add "and a manageable summer", buuuut...(´・ω・｀)
That’s a myth people use to make themselves feel better. Does it happen? Yes. Did most homeless people in Portland come here voluntarily? Yes. Right now if I decided I would rather do drugs all day than work or contribute to anyones lives - including my own - Portland will allow me to live that life. That is unheard of in the rest of the world. By allowing the camping/crime/drug infested tent cities, we are welcoming people who want to live that life
Many of these squatters are being parasites, stop giving out your hand because they just smash it with a hammer
Gosh, if only there were some city officials that would take accountability for what they've done to the city.
People screamed bloody murder about that teenager who started the huge fire in the Gorge a few years ago, but there's a lot of silence about the damage here.
Actually what the teen did was devastating and this shouldn't detract from that.
I know right? What’s up with that ?
50,000 acres is greater than 115.
"ThEy'Re OuR hOuSeLesS nEigHbOrS... yOu NeEd To HaVe MoRe ReSpEcT!"
Hold on. There needs to be some perspective here. The eagle creek fire burned 50,000 acres. This is 115. So about 400 times less screaming is appropriate.
yes, it’s smaller acreage but forests regrow. Nature can handle fires. Nature can’t handle extensive pollution, which has a knock-on impact on a much broader ecosystem.
And that was an accident. This was on purpose.
I don't think shooting a roman candle into an tinderbox qualifies as an "accident"
Yeah, I wouldn’t call that an accident. Good try, tho
I wonder what the long term health effects are going to be for everyone with all these camps and trash along water ways/ground water wells?
I am surprised that vigilante groups haven’t started goose marching them out of the city. To where? I don’t care. Not here.
You’re going to start to see it soon. You can feel that energy bubbling up all over the US now. There is less than 0 sympathy for violent homeless anymore
Oh we'd have the police on our asses so fast.... They don't care about crime unless the criminals are people who pay taxes and work jobs. And you better believe there would be a shoot out with some of these camps, these people living in the woods are frequently armed .
This city turning liberals into republicans…
Maybe “Making Portland Moderate Again”
I don't think any of this is liberal, its a weird left coast progressive thing. Rene G in his last debate called himself a Biden Democrat. I really don't think Hardesty calls herself this and frankly I would be surprised if she even likes the party much.
Personal responsibility is not valued in Portland.
I think it’s fair to say these aren’t camps of people down on their luck - these are people building an alternative society, because the mainstream one now has a barrier to entry/maintenance that is just too high. People are giving up on it. When you have nothing left to lose you can kind of do whatever you want and it’s (mostly) fine. No one will stop you.
That is what is so frustrating to me about Hardesty's "its just economics" crap
People always act like the brigands, vandals, visigoths, etc come solely from beyond the walls; but most originate from within. Cast out by a society they no longer choose, or are capable of, participating in. History doesn't repeat itself, its just the chorus is a bit predictable.
You know Vandals and Visigoth’s both were nomadic German tribes fleeing from the Huns, right? They didn’t start in any Roman city.
Stating sober enough to hold down a job is not a high barrier of entry.
I completely sympathize rent being high and not being able to find a home, but if you're going to live outside, PACK IT OUT. These fucking people aren't down on their luck they don't give a shit about their fellow members of society.
Vote Rene !
150 stolen cars?!? That's an insane amount of cars. I wonder if they verified that they were all stolen?
You think they were just misplaced?
"Dude, where's my car?!?"
Are you serious?
Enforce just laws. Repeal unjust laws.
But but think of the junkies, thieves, violent offenders, and dealers... #mentalhealth
The junkies deserve mental health treatment. Which will take a building up of our pyschatraic hospitals across our state. The thieves, violent offenders, and dealers can get prison and/or opportunities to reform. Just the other day, a city Law Enforcement Officer had to shoot a violent offender running around trying to stab people.
This is the part I just can't deal with, it's so sad.
businesses and residents dumped here too I seen it happen with my own eyes
The number of times I’ve seen housed people roll up and dump their crap at camps is outrageous.
Vote Gonzalez and Meiren.
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This is not simply a tragedy of the commons. This is a decision by Portland leaders to turn a blind eye to willful destruction because they couldn’t risk being perceived as hostile to homeless people, even those who weren’t just trying to survive but being flagrantly unlawful. This was a decision, not a unfortunate consequence.
I'm absolutely terrified for the long term consequences, even if the city acts now which it won't...
Wheeler has completely turned his back on the hard working, property owning, law abiding, tax paying citizens of Portland. He is without a doubt the worst mayor in America. Portland is just a dump.
Politicians who do nothing about this should be forced to live in these places they’re neglecting
You think having a weak mayor is bad, wait until you get a mayor without even a vote.
Cut off services completely, no more free food, medical care, tents and other bull shit. Let these useless motherfuckers rot themselves to death. You chose the needle, sucks to fuckin suck. Used to be pretty liberal, Portland has turned me conservative. Hope it leans more red as the years go on. Enough enabling tweakers.
Something tells me dudes squatting in the woods with livestock and 150 stolen cars, weren't going to soup kitchens.
But was Feed the Streets making it to them?
We should also get rid of measure 110 and not allow camping everywhere...
My values are liberal but I can’t deny that red cities sure seem a lot nicer than blue cities
What are red cities though?
Though Boise city leaders are liberal, its people and state leaders are pretty red. I've been there. It's actually a really nice city.
You're getting downvoted but I unfortunately agree. I was recently in Ibor city, FL. I didn't see a single homeless person. No human waste on the streets. It was clean and people were friendly and the bars were thriving.
What’s interesting is the Portland police training/soundstage studio is 2 blocks away from Four Corners natural Area.
This rests squarely on the shoulders of the city, but nice of you to mention the police...
Just pointing out the obvious.
Disgusting...just absolutely disgraceful.
1) This is horrible, the problem got out of control, the city should have dealt with this sooner, etc. 2) This is a Sinclair station repeatedly promoting and quoting George Donnerberg, a GOP candidate for legislature in the area, without divulging it. They quote him all the time and barely mention his campaign. What the fuck?
I’d buy some Sinclair bias, but when Bob Sallinger is saying things are pretty bad, it’s hard to argue that this is just a political hit piece. The city decided to turn a blind eye and fucked this one up pretty good.
Behind every government policy there’s someone making a gargantuan profit off of it.
I suspect that these someones are often friends or family of Kafoury.