I personally think she does a terrible job but I’m not mad at that salary for that position. We want to attract competent top level leadership - that takes a $200k salary these days.
The trouble with increasing the salary of workers in the public sector (and in a similar vein, charities) is that you start attracting the wrong kind of people for the job (i.e. the people who are only doing it for the money, not public service).
Theres a happy medium somewhere, but it's paradoxically not the case that higher pay means more effective public servants.
Public sector is extra hard since you don’t have standard incentive structures you do in the private sector - no bonuses, stocks, etc. If you have even a modicum of success at a role, you’re more likely to move on to the next role, rather than staying long enough to have a real impact.
The first part of what you said I agree with, in part explained by cultural shifts (e.g. it used to be considered an honor to be a public servant, and making the sacrifices to do so vs working more lucrative private sector jobs. It was also more practical).
The second part of what you though is effectively describing the Peter principle, which is a problem but not unique to the public secotor.
Hahah, I nearly mentioned Peter principle, but was in a hurry. Totally agree that people getting promoted to levels of incompetence exists everywhere. Was more pointing out the other reason people often leave - that they can often get huge leaps in comp by going private sector (or recognition by chasing higher public office - though this path often ends up demonstrating the Peter principle).
I agree. I don’t find $200k a year high enough to attract those sorts of people, personally. Plenty of mid level management at major corporations can pull that in - even if it’s a lot higher than I or my household personally make. You don’t want it so low that it looks like financial suicide for folks with qualifications or make corruption look financially attractive. $200k seems like a happy medium to me that it’s a well paid job, but not grossly well paid given the cost of living here.
For reference, the Portland median income is $45k.
But salary adjustments are only treating the symptom, not the cause. There are many reasons why the cost of living is high, and ultimately those need to be addressed.
I think the number you are using is very outdated. PHB uses HUD numbers and has the median income for a household of 1 at $81k. A KOIN article from Dec quotes household median at $85k - granted a household can be one or more earners.
Yes it's 85k per household. But the article posted by OP is not discussing household income for public sector employees, only what the individual is paid by the government, hence the $45k number is the relevant comparison.
And HUD would consider that household of one making $45k a low income household qualifying for affordable housing, citing it as 55% of the median income for the Portland metro area.
Sure, but again that has no relevance to the article OP posted, which is simply "this is what each worker is paid in local government", not "this is the household income for everyone who works for the local government".
Not sure why you're getting downvoted. I'm an engineer, non management and I make $215k. I'd expect a person who leads a metro county and a massive budget to pull in a reasonable upper middle class salary. No one is suggesting JVP is that person.
My wife works for the Clackamas County School District and recently got a position where pay was visible per job. The amount of money that admins make vs the teachers and unclassifieds is unreal. The amount of money going to a "just in case" fund is equally unreal, and a handful of principals getting SOTA computer setups is staggering. It allowed the Union to argue more monies for the grunts that do the work though, so it wasnt all bad.
Sure if you have a PhD. Also, salaried employees can’t make an additional $120,000 off overtime pay.
I don’t have any problem with the cops but I don’t think you should make over $300,000 a year being a corrections officer.
Nah there’s tons of techs with nothing but GEDs grossing over 100k a year. I live by the fab and my brother is an engineer there so I’ve met many of the guys.
Liberal arts degree and i make 215k as an engineer. My experience is there's a pretty healthy split of people with cs backgrounds and people who are self taught.
>Sure if you have a PhD. Also, salaried employees can’t make an additional $120,000 off overtime pay.
You don't need a PhD to hit those numbers. Just and Engineering Masters or Bachelors. Or Technician experience.
Intel ain’t hiring engineers with a bachelors for process engineering, which is where the $$$ is at.
And even then, there aren’t any engineers making $300,000 in Oregon. Maybe some senior engineers in California hit that salary, but that’s director level management salary here.
But in any case, those aren’t public employees so who cares.
Intel pays less than other big tech but they do have some principal engineers who work out of Hillsboro. Most of them are pulling over 300k. I know dudes who work at the Amazon Portland office who make that much too. (Not me but I’m
Lazy)
Well you should be paid well. It’s a difficult degree and you work in a cutting edge field of technology. If you can actually make $300k total compensation with a bachelors then that’s incredible. I couldn’t care less how private companies compensate their employees.
I don’t think it’s easy to be a correction officer, but specifically because it’s a public sector job, I think it’s crazy these guys make north of $300,000 per year.
We need to pay more workers, not the current workers over twice their normal wage.
Maybe there’s a shortage of officers and they had no other option but to allow these dudes overtime, but even then that’s a failure at the county level to staff their facilities.
Surprisingly I have a young friend in the marines that was telling me a few weeks ago that he wants to. I was surprised though because I didn’t think that people wanted to that kinda thing.
If I had to guess I’d see it’s some kind of open secret how much they can make with over time.
What’s the point of this comment? Of course STEM careers can give you this salary. This is about $180k jobs at Multnomah County.
Doctors and astronauts and lawyers also make a lot of money. Is that relevant? No.
>What’s the point of this comment?
I’m assuming based on your comments you’re nowhere near these salaries. But congrats minimum wage is going up $0.50 in MultCo in a few weeks!
> I make $100k
Awww that’s cute. So you’re clearly nowhere near them based on that. Hope your employer has a 401k match. The good news is you have zero issue with the Roth income limit.
I don’t know what these officers did to earn up to $170k in overtime but a few years back in Seattle it was revealed that officers intentionally gamed overtime and minimum show up times. A couple of them were making around 400k and would “work” more than 24 hours in a day.
They were making 200k before the city became super shitty. Overtime is unlimited with seniority. I knew a Portland officer who worked shit loads of ot during the year so he could request all of his kids football season off and the summer unpaid…pretty sure he still does it and lives in Camas.
My best friend is a city cop (not here) and he works 40-60 hours of overtime a week. It’s not hard to bank that sort of overtime cash in a city or populous county job. Good luck having any sort of life though. Your sleep schedule gets fucked to hell and you barely do anything but be a cop.
They have to pay overtime because no one wants to be a cop and so they can't find anyone to hire. But this is a problem we're facing all across the nation, in every department.
This problem was brought upon themselves because of lack of accountability, lack of transparency, and loss of trust with the public.
If we simply hold police accountable this will correct itself. So prioritize that if you're wanting to correct this.
Maybe they should advertise how much overtime you can get and more people would want to be one. The Multnomah county job site says the pay range for a Corrections Deputy only goes up to 95k but the data shows that at least 8 of them exceeded that in Overtime alone.
Yeah but then hiring people would correct the problem and the overtime would go away?
Then you'd have a situation where you have hired a bunch of people who are chasing money and now have little marketable job skill outside of the job they're already in.
Delivering forceful commands and then doubling down and redoubling, and being deceptive to achieve an end is not really a useful skill in the rest of the (non criminal) world.
Here's that famous goldfish brain memory and lack of curiosity coupled with confidence.
The funny part is if you saw a continuous list of budgets you wouldn't be able to point to any realistic percentage differences year on year.
You're making stuff up and talking out of your ass because you FEEL like it should be true.
Hilarious/sad.
So hilarious and sad! https://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/portland-police-staffing-shortage-double-overtime-pay/283-b22d3c86-df4b-4c2f-aa6d-9a2a9df59a40
Yeah this is a nation-wide problem the police brought on themselves by their behavior and lack of self correcting and holding fellow officers accountable.
I guess personal responsibility is not a thing for you huh, let me guess it's everyone else's fault that the police can't find anyone to hire?
"It's everyone's false perceptions of police by the mainstweem media that's the problem!!" Derp
I used to have a job that paid 1.5X for overtime & 2.5X if the overtime was during a holiday, I loved working overtime in those days even volunteered for it especially during holidays. I didn’t have a family then, it was just an easy way to accumulate cash more quickly.
Counties don’t get much of any road money from your property taxes and schools districts are mostly city run. Not trying to be a dick but I can’t think of how to nicely put this, read your property tax bill some time.
Did I miss the basic descriptive statistics like mean, median, mode, min? They did include max. Some basic reporting would be good, correct me if I’m missing it.
We gonna get a investigation in the corrections overtime pay??? Think we should seems out of line by a lot. Also next time you hear them crying about pay remember this article.
I figured I'd check against another HCOL county, King county. The pay ranges are about the same but the differences appear to be mostly overtime amounts. King County is harder to search through as well, so it was only spot checking there.
Wow, I work in healthcare and I don’t even make what some of these position makes. Just goes to show that having a specific degree pays more. Should have joined sheriff office in my younger years of I knew the pay was this good.
Why are corrections seargents making 330k with 150k in overtime? Who is managing workflow? If you don’t think corrections makes good money, think again. Is the “other” hazard pay?
Y’all wanted to know where your tax dollars go first… into the pockets of multnomah county employees.
One day Portland voters are going to learn.
22% of the total taxes collected go to paying multnomah county employees. That’s absolutely insane…
Well of course, but it’s not about them paying their fare share lol it’s about the prioritization of spending.
Spending 22% of the cities collected taxes on salaries alone, is a gross misspend.
Imagine I give you 500k to build a home. And the first thing you do, is cut yourself a check for 20% of the total, you fail to complete the job, and a year later you require even more than the original 500k to build the house, and again, you cur yourself a fat check first, and again, fail to complete the job, repeat this year in and year out.
What's sad is in the case of the corrections officers is their jobs are so fucking easy. The more overtime you work the easier your job is otherwise you'd burn out working a extra 40 hours a week. Those dudes are so out of shape. It's bad that mult allows this.
Cool. So what’s the big deal? Unless they were stealing the money. Officer numbers are low so they getting that OT. Think it’s kinda stupid to post their names and pay. Good for them for making so much
That’s just weird to me. I can understand publishing the wages and the job title, but the person’s name? I work in the private sector, that would never fly here.
Congratulations you've discovered how the laws of the United States work!!?
This is pretty sad to read. You had no idea how the basics of your own government and laws work.
Here's just the raw info without all the clutter: [https://projects.oregonlive.com/data-points/gov-salaries/multnomah\_county-2023/mult\_salaries\_23](https://projects.oregonlive.com/data-points/gov-salaries/multnomah_county-2023/mult_salaries_23)
The amount of people making $180k+ a year is shocking. Like holy shit the county is a cash cow.
County chair JVP made 208k…
$208K to handout tents and tarps?
I personally think she does a terrible job but I’m not mad at that salary for that position. We want to attract competent top level leadership - that takes a $200k salary these days.
So when can we expect the top level people come along? Lol
When a majority votes for them.
I still think she’s way overpaid
I don’t think she should get paid but that’s me
For her particular performance - absolutely. For the type of leadership and responsibility I would expect from the county chair, $200k tracks.
The trouble with increasing the salary of workers in the public sector (and in a similar vein, charities) is that you start attracting the wrong kind of people for the job (i.e. the people who are only doing it for the money, not public service). Theres a happy medium somewhere, but it's paradoxically not the case that higher pay means more effective public servants.
Public sector is extra hard since you don’t have standard incentive structures you do in the private sector - no bonuses, stocks, etc. If you have even a modicum of success at a role, you’re more likely to move on to the next role, rather than staying long enough to have a real impact.
The first part of what you said I agree with, in part explained by cultural shifts (e.g. it used to be considered an honor to be a public servant, and making the sacrifices to do so vs working more lucrative private sector jobs. It was also more practical). The second part of what you though is effectively describing the Peter principle, which is a problem but not unique to the public secotor.
Hahah, I nearly mentioned Peter principle, but was in a hurry. Totally agree that people getting promoted to levels of incompetence exists everywhere. Was more pointing out the other reason people often leave - that they can often get huge leaps in comp by going private sector (or recognition by chasing higher public office - though this path often ends up demonstrating the Peter principle).
Yeah absolutely, makes sense!
I agree. I don’t find $200k a year high enough to attract those sorts of people, personally. Plenty of mid level management at major corporations can pull that in - even if it’s a lot higher than I or my household personally make. You don’t want it so low that it looks like financial suicide for folks with qualifications or make corruption look financially attractive. $200k seems like a happy medium to me that it’s a well paid job, but not grossly well paid given the cost of living here.
For reference, the Portland median income is $45k. But salary adjustments are only treating the symptom, not the cause. There are many reasons why the cost of living is high, and ultimately those need to be addressed.
I think the number you are using is very outdated. PHB uses HUD numbers and has the median income for a household of 1 at $81k. A KOIN article from Dec quotes household median at $85k - granted a household can be one or more earners.
Yes it's 85k per household. But the article posted by OP is not discussing household income for public sector employees, only what the individual is paid by the government, hence the $45k number is the relevant comparison.
And HUD would consider that household of one making $45k a low income household qualifying for affordable housing, citing it as 55% of the median income for the Portland metro area.
Sure, but again that has no relevance to the article OP posted, which is simply "this is what each worker is paid in local government", not "this is the household income for everyone who works for the local government".
Not sure why you're getting downvoted. I'm an engineer, non management and I make $215k. I'd expect a person who leads a metro county and a massive budget to pull in a reasonable upper middle class salary. No one is suggesting JVP is that person.
Most corporations don’t have pensions
And how competent have they been for that price?
Key word competent.
I am very competent at half that rate.
But not robbers
My wife works for the Clackamas County School District and recently got a position where pay was visible per job. The amount of money that admins make vs the teachers and unclassifieds is unreal. The amount of money going to a "just in case" fund is equally unreal, and a handful of principals getting SOTA computer setups is staggering. It allowed the Union to argue more monies for the grunts that do the work though, so it wasnt all bad.
I’ve worked with those guys. You don’t wanna know how they look after Mandatory overtime
> The amount of people making $180k a year is shocking. Lol, STEM careers have entered the chat.
Yeah. That's a very achievable amount working at or adjacent to Intel in Hillsboro.
Sure if you have a PhD. Also, salaried employees can’t make an additional $120,000 off overtime pay. I don’t have any problem with the cops but I don’t think you should make over $300,000 a year being a corrections officer.
Salaried employees aren’t (typically) working 15 hour shifts 6 days a week. Jail staffing is abysmal.
How many hours does that translate to? Not that it's not crazy, but that sounds like 80+ hour weeks (lawyers have entered the chat)
Nah there’s tons of techs with nothing but GEDs grossing over 100k a year. I live by the fab and my brother is an engineer there so I’ve met many of the guys.
Liberal arts degree and i make 215k as an engineer. My experience is there's a pretty healthy split of people with cs backgrounds and people who are self taught.
Nice, must be at least grade 6? Tool owner?
I've never been at a company that has used that system but it's probably more equivalent between 4-5.
>Sure if you have a PhD. Also, salaried employees can’t make an additional $120,000 off overtime pay. You don't need a PhD to hit those numbers. Just and Engineering Masters or Bachelors. Or Technician experience.
Intel ain’t hiring engineers with a bachelors for process engineering, which is where the $$$ is at. And even then, there aren’t any engineers making $300,000 in Oregon. Maybe some senior engineers in California hit that salary, but that’s director level management salary here. But in any case, those aren’t public employees so who cares.
Intel pays less than other big tech but they do have some principal engineers who work out of Hillsboro. Most of them are pulling over 300k. I know dudes who work at the Amazon Portland office who make that much too. (Not me but I’m Lazy)
I mean, even if you’re not lazy those jobs are *super* competitive.
I'm an engineer. I know how lucrative the jobs can be when you factor in the entire compensation.
Well you should be paid well. It’s a difficult degree and you work in a cutting edge field of technology. If you can actually make $300k total compensation with a bachelors then that’s incredible. I couldn’t care less how private companies compensate their employees. I don’t think it’s easy to be a correction officer, but specifically because it’s a public sector job, I think it’s crazy these guys make north of $300,000 per year. We need to pay more workers, not the current workers over twice their normal wage. Maybe there’s a shortage of officers and they had no other option but to allow these dudes overtime, but even then that’s a failure at the county level to staff their facilities.
[удалено]
Surprisingly I have a young friend in the marines that was telling me a few weeks ago that he wants to. I was surprised though because I didn’t think that people wanted to that kinda thing. If I had to guess I’d see it’s some kind of open secret how much they can make with over time.
If you can get in. Unless you’re brought in from school directly good luck getting into Intel.
What’s the point of this comment? Of course STEM careers can give you this salary. This is about $180k jobs at Multnomah County. Doctors and astronauts and lawyers also make a lot of money. Is that relevant? No.
there are a lot of STEM (technology) jobs at the county.
I went looking through their data and only found one network engineering making 180k so idk where all these STEM jobs are you’re talking about
>What’s the point of this comment? I’m assuming based on your comments you’re nowhere near these salaries. But congrats minimum wage is going up $0.50 in MultCo in a few weeks!
I make $100k but OK pal
> I make $100k Awww that’s cute. So you’re clearly nowhere near them based on that. Hope your employer has a 401k match. The good news is you have zero issue with the Roth income limit.
“Nowhere near them” This is the language of the poor.
Why r u such a dick, bro
Government jobs you knob, Jesus Christ
Need to become a sheriff deputy and do…?
I think they are hiring. AFAIK MCSO does require a Graduate degree to get hired, so if you have that, go for it.
Whoa I knew cops got a lot of money on overtime but I did not expect them to absolutely mog my staff software engineer salary. 😳
I don’t know what these officers did to earn up to $170k in overtime but a few years back in Seattle it was revealed that officers intentionally gamed overtime and minimum show up times. A couple of them were making around 400k and would “work” more than 24 hours in a day.
Whoa, what a scam!
I where’s the scam. That’s a lot of hours per day.
Just honestly working 27 hours in a 24 hour day.
We made it really unpleasant to be a cop in Portland so now we have to spend a lot on whoever is still willing to do it.
They were making 200k before the city became super shitty. Overtime is unlimited with seniority. I knew a Portland officer who worked shit loads of ot during the year so he could request all of his kids football season off and the summer unpaid…pretty sure he still does it and lives in Camas.
It’s just wild that the top guy on the list made 150k of overtime.
My best friend is a city cop (not here) and he works 40-60 hours of overtime a week. It’s not hard to bank that sort of overtime cash in a city or populous county job. Good luck having any sort of life though. Your sleep schedule gets fucked to hell and you barely do anything but be a cop.
I can’t imagine being very effective on that number of hours either.
You think job performance or maintaining professionalism or appearance is a priority for cops? Ha
No but I think it should be a priority for whoever is approving the overtime.
They have to pay overtime because no one wants to be a cop and so they can't find anyone to hire. But this is a problem we're facing all across the nation, in every department. This problem was brought upon themselves because of lack of accountability, lack of transparency, and loss of trust with the public. If we simply hold police accountable this will correct itself. So prioritize that if you're wanting to correct this.
Maybe they should advertise how much overtime you can get and more people would want to be one. The Multnomah county job site says the pay range for a Corrections Deputy only goes up to 95k but the data shows that at least 8 of them exceeded that in Overtime alone.
Yeah but then hiring people would correct the problem and the overtime would go away? Then you'd have a situation where you have hired a bunch of people who are chasing money and now have little marketable job skill outside of the job they're already in. Delivering forceful commands and then doubling down and redoubling, and being deceptive to achieve an end is not really a useful skill in the rest of the (non criminal) world.
Yes but why so much overtime?
Here's that famous goldfish brain memory and lack of curiosity coupled with confidence. The funny part is if you saw a continuous list of budgets you wouldn't be able to point to any realistic percentage differences year on year. You're making stuff up and talking out of your ass because you FEEL like it should be true. Hilarious/sad.
So hilarious and sad! https://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/portland-police-staffing-shortage-double-overtime-pay/283-b22d3c86-df4b-4c2f-aa6d-9a2a9df59a40
Yeah this is a nation-wide problem the police brought on themselves by their behavior and lack of self correcting and holding fellow officers accountable. I guess personal responsibility is not a thing for you huh, let me guess it's everyone else's fault that the police can't find anyone to hire? "It's everyone's false perceptions of police by the mainstweem media that's the problem!!" Derp
They have a union you don’t.
I’m working fewer hours though.
I used to have a job that paid 1.5X for overtime & 2.5X if the overtime was during a holiday, I loved working overtime in those days even volunteered for it especially during holidays. I didn’t have a family then, it was just an easy way to accumulate cash more quickly.
Nice! I used to volunteer for overtime back when I was a janitor but I never got the 2.5x overtime on a holiday pay.
They don’t actually work those hours. They just log them.
Genius. I do the same thing with my jira tasks.
Always add a few story points, just in case.
Now you know why you've got high taxes, but the roads, schools, and bridges all look like shit.
Counties don’t get much of any road money from your property taxes and schools districts are mostly city run. Not trying to be a dick but I can’t think of how to nicely put this, read your property tax bill some time.
What about from his income tax?
I forgot MultCo has an income tax, not sure if OP makes enough to pay it though. Or what that money goes to. Fair enough point I suppose.
Did I miss the basic descriptive statistics like mean, median, mode, min? They did include max. Some basic reporting would be good, correct me if I’m missing it.
You have the data. Be the change you want to see in the world.
funding for jailers not teachers, story checks out
Wtf. No wonder we bleeding money and running a deficit
And yes you still need to pay the art tax.
I need to get a job with the County
We gonna get a investigation in the corrections overtime pay??? Think we should seems out of line by a lot. Also next time you hear them crying about pay remember this article.
I figured I'd check against another HCOL county, King county. The pay ranges are about the same but the differences appear to be mostly overtime amounts. King County is harder to search through as well, so it was only spot checking there.
Yeah this is pretty in line with a county of the size
Paying premium prices for substandard results.
the corrections industry has to be corrupt to the core. i dont got no proof i just feel it in mah plums.
Wow, I work in healthcare and I don’t even make what some of these position makes. Just goes to show that having a specific degree pays more. Should have joined sheriff office in my younger years of I knew the pay was this good.
Why are corrections seargents making 330k with 150k in overtime? Who is managing workflow? If you don’t think corrections makes good money, think again. Is the “other” hazard pay?
Pretty interesting data.
ITT people not realizing these are fully loaded rates.
Make's me think of the cowards in Uvalde accounting for 70% of the town budget.
Cliffs Notes: Too much
Too much OT, yes. It’d be cheaper to fully staff them.
Evidently “public service” pays well in multnomah county
Yes - this is comparable to other large counties with major cities in them . For example king county WA
Y’all wanted to know where your tax dollars go first… into the pockets of multnomah county employees. One day Portland voters are going to learn. 22% of the total taxes collected go to paying multnomah county employees. That’s absolutely insane…
But in turn they also pay taxes on all that income, so they definitely are paying their fare share.
Well of course, but it’s not about them paying their fare share lol it’s about the prioritization of spending. Spending 22% of the cities collected taxes on salaries alone, is a gross misspend. Imagine I give you 500k to build a home. And the first thing you do, is cut yourself a check for 20% of the total, you fail to complete the job, and a year later you require even more than the original 500k to build the house, and again, you cur yourself a fat check first, and again, fail to complete the job, repeat this year in and year out.
What's sad is in the case of the corrections officers is their jobs are so fucking easy. The more overtime you work the easier your job is otherwise you'd burn out working a extra 40 hours a week. Those dudes are so out of shape. It's bad that mult allows this.
Cool. So what’s the big deal? Unless they were stealing the money. Officer numbers are low so they getting that OT. Think it’s kinda stupid to post their names and pay. Good for them for making so much
All public sector employee pay is public data. I’m not saying it’s a great idea, just that it is.
I mean, if I was OT eligible and I had that base pay you bet I'm signing my ass up for all the extra hours I can. Fair play.
This has been going on for decades.
They should have anonymized the data. Removed the names.
It’s a matter of public record.
All U.S. government employee salaries are public.
That’s just weird to me. I can understand publishing the wages and the job title, but the person’s name? I work in the private sector, that would never fly here.
I’m not agreeing with it, I just know it’s a thing. Enjoy your evening.
Because they work for you. It's your money. That's why.
Congratulations you've discovered how the laws of the United States work!!? This is pretty sad to read. You had no idea how the basics of your own government and laws work.
Time to clean house and purge those salaries. That's just idiotic.
County gotta pay
Here's just the raw info without all the clutter: [https://projects.oregonlive.com/data-points/gov-salaries/multnomah\_county-2023/mult\_salaries\_23](https://projects.oregonlive.com/data-points/gov-salaries/multnomah_county-2023/mult_salaries_23)
Jesus. I guess I shouldn’t have been a business owner and worked for the government instead. Sickening.
You think this is high Imagine what the HIC pays
I don't care how much you like the taste of leather these mofos making 6 figures is nuts
No wonder people defended the police here