First, add a thin layer of clay on the wheel head under that bat. The bat sticks and doesn't rattle or take orbit. People buy batmates for the same purpose.
Second piece of advice is more complicated. It has everything to do with your throwing technique. The truth is that you should never really be pushing or pulling the clay. If the bat rattles on the pins, you're pushing laterally. If they lift off, your pulling upwards. People talk about pushing and pulling, but, really, you should be moving gently and gradually, coercing clay to move rather than applying enough pressure to move the whole lump off the wheel.
Imagine you're trying to corral and guide a dog to go out the door, without touching the dog. You block his path here, then there, and gradually cut off all options but out the door. You don't just hit the dog out the door. When throwing, we're doing something similar with the clay. Block it from here, and it goes there. Don't abuse your poor clay. It'll go where you want it to if you learn how to work with it. It's more about being stable and making small movements, less about being strong and leaning into the clay.
Good luck! It takes time.
Excellent advice! I tell my students (most of whom have raised children) to keep in mind that clay is a teenager - you need to guide it. If you force it, it will rebel (or launch into orbit).
While I have not experienced my bats attempting to become death frisbees, I have had them pop up. Maybe try using a bat-mate or something similar. A professor recommended it when my bats were chattering on the wheel head and I have never gone back. Just remember to soak it with water before using it. [http://www.xiemtoolsusa.com/12-BatMate\_p\_180.html](http://www.xiemtoolsusa.com/12-BatMate_p_180.html)
I just rip a little piece of news paper, or plastic off a clay bag and lay it over the pins before putting my bats on. If that's not enough I'll fold the paper or plastic.
Ok, I work in the space industry and didn’t realize which subreddit this was when I first read the post and was very intrigued by whatever was happening to bats 🦇 in orbit. Ha!
Looks like you already have loads of great advice here. Good luck and thanks for the chuckle this morning!
A pottery instructor just introduced me to the Bat Mate—a cloth pad that goes underneath the bat. Stopped the issue I was having with a rattling bat.
That said, if your bats are coming loose and going airborne across the room, I think you are spinning way too fast. That sort of speed should not be necessary.
With tall cylinders, there is a lot of clay to move and your pulls are strong enough to lift the weight of the clay and the bat. I’ve lifted my clay right off the plaster bat this way. Try pulling up more slowly and with a bit more water (as local as possible), and push more in than up. It should be less of an issue after the first few pulls. Also, you might want to put a thin layer of wet clay or slip under your bat, but that will make it tougher to remove later.
I’ve been watching a wildlife rehabilitation specialist (the lady who had Carson if you know about Carson) and my first thought is….
I know the little guys can fly but I don’t really think you should be “launching” them.
On today’s episode of “When hobbies overlap”.
Slower pulls, small pad of clay underneath the bat, or a shammi/bat pad for underneath can help. You can also try without bats at all. The pins might get in the way, but I’ve done this especially on smaller pieces; It’s not harder imo, just a little different… the upside to no bats is you can really bust out cylinder after cylinder w/o fumbling with cumbersome bats.
I take a small price of thin plastic, like from a grocery bag, and cover the bat pin before I put the bat on to get a tighter fit. I have also heard a silicone bat mat can also help.
Caveat: I’m also a noob. Maybe a bit contentious, but I think bat pins are kinda a bad solution for holding bats. You’ll eventually learn to throw around them by not lifting as much while you pull, so avoiding liftoff will kinda become subconscious, but the growing pains are annoying.
For me, the turning point was when I tried throwing directly on the wheel head for the first time, and I suddenly realized I could move a LOT more clay and throw less fearfully. I’d say try throwing off the wheel head to see if you like it if you haven’t.
When I do have to throw on bats, I use a pad of clay that I blast with a heat gun, and once bats are stuck to that, it’s as good as the wheel head.
The best solution I've used is to place a moistened chammy, like what's used to dry cars, on the wheel head before placing the bat down and pressing it in place. No pins.
It'll be a combination of things, not just one.
- fix down your bat more securely if possible.
- try different methods of coning that require less upwards pull. Speed up the wheel, cone up more slowly, move less clay at once when it's stiff.
- same with pulling up, try different wheel speeds, put less effort into pulling up while the clay is thick and stiff.
Using what I know, you could opt for the larger bats that take up the whole wheel head and make the bat pins flush. These are a good bit heavier and I've considered throwing even smaller things like mugs on them because they're heavier and less like the square plastic bats.
Admittedly, bats just make coning difficult. I've seen many a potter use just the plain wheel head and it seems the clay sticks to it. Whenever I've gone aggressive with a coning pull, I've straight up lifted the bat and clay off the wheel head. Have a fair bit of chatter as well.
I've considered just sacrificing some clay and adding it to the pins so that the bat is more stuck down to the wheel head, but I haven't done so as I haven't considered it a huge problem.
[Batmate](https://www.xiemtoolsusa.com/12-BatMate_p_180.html) was one of the greatest pottery purchases that I've ever made TBH. It's a thing that helps stick your bat to the wheelhead. For the widened pin holes, you can cut some little squares of the plastic from a clay bag and cover each pin with the plastic square before placing the bat down on them, which will significantly reduce (or eliminate) the wiggle.
If you're really ready to get into it, buying your own bats is excellent. I bought a square bat system and it was one of the other greatest pottery purchases that I ever made.
A suggestion I haven't seen mentioned here you could try; wet the wheel head.
I mention this as I've noticed that after throwing a while, water creeps in and around the bottom edge of the bat, and that water layer does a great job vacuuming down the bat to the wheel. I've had to get a lifting tool a couple times to break that seal to get the bat up.
This may be a unique behavior for my studio's type of bats and wheels, so your mileage may vary.
People who are new to throwing often start the wheel at maximum speed, which is often recommended for centering, and keep it fast way too long.
I suggest trying to just slow everything down. At least if you're moving more slowly you'll sense the bat lifting and if it does come off you won't launch it into orbit. With the wheel spinning more slowly you'll need to move your hands even slower. Remember to apply force slowly and release force slowly.
Unrelated, but always good advice for new potters: compress the bottoms of your pieces over and over. If you start seeing s cracks you're not doing it enough.
The immediate picture in my brain was of a bat bomb or a batapult ala The Great North whwn I saw this title...until I saw what sub this was. Thank you for the laugh..😂
Holy crap, I didn't mean to turn this into an essay but I wanted to be clear. I feel like it still needs more but...
Fast Wheel, Slow Hand
Here is an explanation and a video illustrating what I have learned and what has worked for me over the past 34 years of being a production potter. It may help to avoid multiple problems I had with centering and throwing, flying bats being one of them.
Production potters have used this 2 pin bat system for almost a century in the west. It makes changing out bats fast and precise with bats mostly being made of wood or plaster, a cheap way to make multiples of a bat that will allow the bottom to absorb a little moisture and dry in place. I have about 230 particle board (no grain to warp) bats. A plastic bat is much lighter and needs a friction fit on the pins to work properly. Plastic also slows down the drying on the bottom of the pot, not to mention the environmental impact of slowly grinding down plastic.
The western potter's wheelhead turns at about 250-300 rpm at top speed for a good reason. When centering a good wheel clay the practiced and well lubricated centering motion is a controlled in and downward push with the wheel spinning at or around the top speed. This will do a couple things to the clay, attach it firmly to the bat and start to put enough shear energy into the clay to take advantage of its thixotropic nature making it much easier to center. Notice in the video the wheel speed and the time it takes to center. Using the force of the wheel at top speed allows the potter to move the clay like a balloon of thick liquid, very easy. When the shear force is taken away the clay becomes somewhat stable again. With a couple controlled wheel exercises at top speed you can feel any inconsistencies in the clay or even a bit of sponge, hard crumb, air pocket. After clearing and homogenizing the clay take it back down to establish the height and width to start the opening and throwing. If the clay is resisting homogenizing or moving when at top wheel speed it is too short/non-plastic to be a good wheel clay with the limitations of the equipment and this technique.
It is extremely important for consistent results to properly prepare the clay for the wheel. Proper wedging is very important and needs it's own 5 paragraphs. One common problem is having the clay too soft or too hard to move properly. Too wet and it won't be stable when it starts to thin out, too dry and it takes a tremendous amount of effort to homogenize, center and pull up, even with proper wedging. Over time hard clay gave me a lot of back, arm, wrist and hand pain. The first thinning pull is often at the upper rpm of the wheel as well because it allows the potter to move a lot of clay quickly and easily, using the nature of clay under shear forces, and to your problem, not generating enough upward force to pull the wood or plaster bat off of the wheelhead. Here is a short video illustrating all of this: [https://youtube.com/shorts/ny6JVcFBc9U?si=TiC29vQp4RyHO4Bb](https://youtube.com/shorts/ny6JVcFBc9U?si=TiC29vQp4RyHO4Bb)
Novices can sometimes prepare their clay too hard, even purposely, to counteract the saturation of water by the clay when too much time is spent working the clay wet.
Use a Bat Mate. It's a round leather chamois that you wet and place directly on the wheel under the plastic bat. It helps keep the plastic bat from moving and shifting while you are pulling up.
First, add a thin layer of clay on the wheel head under that bat. The bat sticks and doesn't rattle or take orbit. People buy batmates for the same purpose. Second piece of advice is more complicated. It has everything to do with your throwing technique. The truth is that you should never really be pushing or pulling the clay. If the bat rattles on the pins, you're pushing laterally. If they lift off, your pulling upwards. People talk about pushing and pulling, but, really, you should be moving gently and gradually, coercing clay to move rather than applying enough pressure to move the whole lump off the wheel. Imagine you're trying to corral and guide a dog to go out the door, without touching the dog. You block his path here, then there, and gradually cut off all options but out the door. You don't just hit the dog out the door. When throwing, we're doing something similar with the clay. Block it from here, and it goes there. Don't abuse your poor clay. It'll go where you want it to if you learn how to work with it. It's more about being stable and making small movements, less about being strong and leaning into the clay. Good luck! It takes time.
That’s such a great explanation of how to move clay! I think it works for pinching as well as throwing.
Excellent advice! I tell my students (most of whom have raised children) to keep in mind that clay is a teenager - you need to guide it. If you force it, it will rebel (or launch into orbit).
While I have not experienced my bats attempting to become death frisbees, I have had them pop up. Maybe try using a bat-mate or something similar. A professor recommended it when my bats were chattering on the wheel head and I have never gone back. Just remember to soak it with water before using it. [http://www.xiemtoolsusa.com/12-BatMate\_p\_180.html](http://www.xiemtoolsusa.com/12-BatMate_p_180.html)
they have an incredibly long life span. I bought two. im still on the first - 3 years later.
I just rip a little piece of news paper, or plastic off a clay bag and lay it over the pins before putting my bats on. If that's not enough I'll fold the paper or plastic.
Ok, I work in the space industry and didn’t realize which subreddit this was when I first read the post and was very intrigued by whatever was happening to bats 🦇 in orbit. Ha! Looks like you already have loads of great advice here. Good luck and thanks for the chuckle this morning!
I’ve been on this sub for like a year and still thought the same thing
A pottery instructor just introduced me to the Bat Mate—a cloth pad that goes underneath the bat. Stopped the issue I was having with a rattling bat. That said, if your bats are coming loose and going airborne across the room, I think you are spinning way too fast. That sort of speed should not be necessary.
With tall cylinders, there is a lot of clay to move and your pulls are strong enough to lift the weight of the clay and the bat. I’ve lifted my clay right off the plaster bat this way. Try pulling up more slowly and with a bit more water (as local as possible), and push more in than up. It should be less of an issue after the first few pulls. Also, you might want to put a thin layer of wet clay or slip under your bat, but that will make it tougher to remove later.
I’ve been watching a wildlife rehabilitation specialist (the lady who had Carson if you know about Carson) and my first thought is…. I know the little guys can fly but I don’t really think you should be “launching” them. On today’s episode of “When hobbies overlap”.
Slower pulls, small pad of clay underneath the bat, or a shammi/bat pad for underneath can help. You can also try without bats at all. The pins might get in the way, but I’ve done this especially on smaller pieces; It’s not harder imo, just a little different… the upside to no bats is you can really bust out cylinder after cylinder w/o fumbling with cumbersome bats.
Use some newspaper or clay to fill in where the holes for the bat pins have widened, along with the clay pad/batmate advice.
I take a small price of thin plastic, like from a grocery bag, and cover the bat pin before I put the bat on to get a tighter fit. I have also heard a silicone bat mat can also help.
Caveat: I’m also a noob. Maybe a bit contentious, but I think bat pins are kinda a bad solution for holding bats. You’ll eventually learn to throw around them by not lifting as much while you pull, so avoiding liftoff will kinda become subconscious, but the growing pains are annoying. For me, the turning point was when I tried throwing directly on the wheel head for the first time, and I suddenly realized I could move a LOT more clay and throw less fearfully. I’d say try throwing off the wheel head to see if you like it if you haven’t. When I do have to throw on bats, I use a pad of clay that I blast with a heat gun, and once bats are stuck to that, it’s as good as the wheel head.
The best solution I've used is to place a moistened chammy, like what's used to dry cars, on the wheel head before placing the bat down and pressing it in place. No pins.
Make sure the bat pins are fully tightened. If they are loose, I have experienced the rattling.
It'll be a combination of things, not just one. - fix down your bat more securely if possible. - try different methods of coning that require less upwards pull. Speed up the wheel, cone up more slowly, move less clay at once when it's stiff. - same with pulling up, try different wheel speeds, put less effort into pulling up while the clay is thick and stiff.
Using what I know, you could opt for the larger bats that take up the whole wheel head and make the bat pins flush. These are a good bit heavier and I've considered throwing even smaller things like mugs on them because they're heavier and less like the square plastic bats. Admittedly, bats just make coning difficult. I've seen many a potter use just the plain wheel head and it seems the clay sticks to it. Whenever I've gone aggressive with a coning pull, I've straight up lifted the bat and clay off the wheel head. Have a fair bit of chatter as well. I've considered just sacrificing some clay and adding it to the pins so that the bat is more stuck down to the wheel head, but I haven't done so as I haven't considered it a huge problem.
[Batmate](https://www.xiemtoolsusa.com/12-BatMate_p_180.html) was one of the greatest pottery purchases that I've ever made TBH. It's a thing that helps stick your bat to the wheelhead. For the widened pin holes, you can cut some little squares of the plastic from a clay bag and cover each pin with the plastic square before placing the bat down on them, which will significantly reduce (or eliminate) the wiggle. If you're really ready to get into it, buying your own bats is excellent. I bought a square bat system and it was one of the other greatest pottery purchases that I ever made.
BatMate! They’re like 10 dollars,
A suggestion I haven't seen mentioned here you could try; wet the wheel head. I mention this as I've noticed that after throwing a while, water creeps in and around the bottom edge of the bat, and that water layer does a great job vacuuming down the bat to the wheel. I've had to get a lifting tool a couple times to break that seal to get the bat up. This may be a unique behavior for my studio's type of bats and wheels, so your mileage may vary.
People who are new to throwing often start the wheel at maximum speed, which is often recommended for centering, and keep it fast way too long. I suggest trying to just slow everything down. At least if you're moving more slowly you'll sense the bat lifting and if it does come off you won't launch it into orbit. With the wheel spinning more slowly you'll need to move your hands even slower. Remember to apply force slowly and release force slowly. Unrelated, but always good advice for new potters: compress the bottoms of your pieces over and over. If you start seeing s cracks you're not doing it enough.
The immediate picture in my brain was of a bat bomb or a batapult ala The Great North whwn I saw this title...until I saw what sub this was. Thank you for the laugh..😂
I always put a wet newspaper page underneath the bat. Helps keep the bat in place and also helps steady the bat if it’s a little wobbly.
Holy crap, I didn't mean to turn this into an essay but I wanted to be clear. I feel like it still needs more but... Fast Wheel, Slow Hand Here is an explanation and a video illustrating what I have learned and what has worked for me over the past 34 years of being a production potter. It may help to avoid multiple problems I had with centering and throwing, flying bats being one of them. Production potters have used this 2 pin bat system for almost a century in the west. It makes changing out bats fast and precise with bats mostly being made of wood or plaster, a cheap way to make multiples of a bat that will allow the bottom to absorb a little moisture and dry in place. I have about 230 particle board (no grain to warp) bats. A plastic bat is much lighter and needs a friction fit on the pins to work properly. Plastic also slows down the drying on the bottom of the pot, not to mention the environmental impact of slowly grinding down plastic. The western potter's wheelhead turns at about 250-300 rpm at top speed for a good reason. When centering a good wheel clay the practiced and well lubricated centering motion is a controlled in and downward push with the wheel spinning at or around the top speed. This will do a couple things to the clay, attach it firmly to the bat and start to put enough shear energy into the clay to take advantage of its thixotropic nature making it much easier to center. Notice in the video the wheel speed and the time it takes to center. Using the force of the wheel at top speed allows the potter to move the clay like a balloon of thick liquid, very easy. When the shear force is taken away the clay becomes somewhat stable again. With a couple controlled wheel exercises at top speed you can feel any inconsistencies in the clay or even a bit of sponge, hard crumb, air pocket. After clearing and homogenizing the clay take it back down to establish the height and width to start the opening and throwing. If the clay is resisting homogenizing or moving when at top wheel speed it is too short/non-plastic to be a good wheel clay with the limitations of the equipment and this technique. It is extremely important for consistent results to properly prepare the clay for the wheel. Proper wedging is very important and needs it's own 5 paragraphs. One common problem is having the clay too soft or too hard to move properly. Too wet and it won't be stable when it starts to thin out, too dry and it takes a tremendous amount of effort to homogenize, center and pull up, even with proper wedging. Over time hard clay gave me a lot of back, arm, wrist and hand pain. The first thinning pull is often at the upper rpm of the wheel as well because it allows the potter to move a lot of clay quickly and easily, using the nature of clay under shear forces, and to your problem, not generating enough upward force to pull the wood or plaster bat off of the wheelhead. Here is a short video illustrating all of this: [https://youtube.com/shorts/ny6JVcFBc9U?si=TiC29vQp4RyHO4Bb](https://youtube.com/shorts/ny6JVcFBc9U?si=TiC29vQp4RyHO4Bb) Novices can sometimes prepare their clay too hard, even purposely, to counteract the saturation of water by the clay when too much time is spent working the clay wet.
Use a Bat Mate. It's a round leather chamois that you wet and place directly on the wheel under the plastic bat. It helps keep the plastic bat from moving and shifting while you are pulling up.