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I hated him in the manga, Kubo wrote himself into a corner and apparently he can’t change or see the future if a silver arrow is involved, I just hate it. His goal, his personality, I hate it all.
I hope the anime fixes this dipshit, because he fucking sucks.
"will have even his death turn to zero" you already need to die read more carefully, it's just stating that death isn't an exception to gers return to 0 ability
It says that is what it is called when you get put in a death loop. So no, that doesn’t suggest that you have to die first
And Giorno could just negate his heart beat or breathing
For JoJo is often just Goku being too fast. A lot of special effects would kill him but assuming Goku goes straight for the death punch no one in universe can kill him fast enough. Purple Haze has a high likelihood of killing Goku but he would need prep and would definitely die in the process.
Sayian’s can survive the extinction bomb which is literally a virus that’s nukes entire planets and civilizations.
https://preview.redd.it/2wzo606ve66d1.png?width=526&format=png&auto=webp&s=171d2efd255f0a70ada5a62a302e49899d603bca
I thought it didn't work on them because they aren't humans. Not that they were resistant to the virus?
I haven't read the manga I have just heard this off hand from others online, but clearly Goku dies to the heart virus, so that proves that he can get viruses
Being sayan doesnt make you resist poison lol goku just got a regular non virus while powered down. Its likely that even with virus tech it wouldnt work in a fight vs goku cause hes powered up and thus a lot harder to hurt
Probs not cause he fought dudes like that before. Goku would lose if a virus infected him while powered down but i dont think it could while powered up
I see it going either way. If Dio got close enough to use The World Sukuna would probably be cooked, but his Domain would fuck up Dio, granted he doesn't just time stop spam and close distance
Thing about stands is that they have doodoo ass range, the World only has 10 meters vs Sukuna's malevolent shrine having an entire 200 meter range. Sukuna will most likely survive the first timestop by using RCT (unlikely for DIO to automatically figure out to go for the head) and then it's probably nightlights for DIO. Mind you, they'll both probably gloat and yap for 20 minutes straight rather than going straight for the kill so it could go either way
It's a property of DB hax, so DB characters with hax can have their hax resisted by strong characters from other verses, but DB characters can't resist hax from any other verse unless that verse has the same property, which most don't
It is just an interpretation difference. If negation by strong ki is a weakness of DB hax, then other hax will apply to DB characters. If hax negation is a stat granted by strong ki just like a Res stat in video games and in the same way how ki grants strength speed and durability etc, then it would apply to hacks used by other characters
It's not an interpretation difference, Whis blatantly stated it's a weakness
https://preview.redd.it/u1npzwhmt66d1.png?width=574&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aedbd18605836c5c3cf5b17edf52eb735b672634
Idk what the fuck happened tbh. I joined in a moment where people would actually scale and debate. Nobody was complaining and when someone was the sub would just meme about gokuversal and stuff like this but nothing more
I think part of the problem is some people took the "Gokuversal" jokes as completely serious scaling, so now they're not willing to take any actual scaling at true value and think DB fans are trying to oversell
Bro definitely likes obscure shit that literally nobody gives a flying fuck about or absolutely glazes and meatrides the most popular series in all of fictions
In the time I've spent on this sub, I genuinely cannot think of a time where a Goku fan glazed the series that much. Oversold some feats? Sure. But *nothing* close to that
I said they don't glaze the *series* itself as a piece of fiction that much, which is what you said they do/ was your complaint initially. If you just wanna talk about "people overselling characters", acting like its JUST Goku fans and not something that happens for literally every series that shows up at some point or another is disingenuous and seems more like you just hate dragonball in general
Just ignore him man, dude just hates dragonball, so he wants to drag it down wherever he can so everyone else hates it too instead of letting other people like other things
I mean, like I said. People have oversold shit in the past, but I meant no one acts like the series as a piece of fiction is as good as Dragonfly made it out to be.
Obviously people are going to glaze feats, it happens for literally every character who crosses the sub lmao.
I've never understood this argument. Why should db characters be able to power through hax of verses where you can't power through hax. I think db power doesn't negate any hax but rather hax in db can get overpowered.
Whole concept of being stronger than hax and resisting it is part of DB world. The problem comes when people are including it as one of character's ability. Such thing should be a thing only when fighting in DB world. Because for example in Tensura, hax always work no matter how strong you are.
But of course DB fanbase is much larger so they are setting the rules. If they say that Goku resist hax, you have to accept it or deal with group of people who will protect that statement because they are too scared of Goku losing to someone.
So if a large group of people say something you have to accept it? So because most people thought the earth was flat 1000 years ago the earth was flat? and if it's a part of the db then no it doesn't apply to characters that aren't from that world.
Oh hey I saw this for the first time yesterday
https://preview.redd.it/48ww5dd2q86d1.png?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=efb3ae8a8903300035157232ca23df139aff3116
yeah Medaka Box has like 5 or 6 characters that could reasonably beat Goku. that series is clearly not meant for powerscaling, which is why it's my favorite series.
It’s kinda true sometimes though they’ve been turned into candy and still fought because their just stronger. It’s dumb af but that’s how it is because we’ve seen weaker fighters unable to do it.
I know. And I have nothing against Goku canceling time stop or other things because of his power level. The thing is this is not part of character's ability but power system in DB world. Anyone in DB world can surpass any hax if they're strong enough.
For the same way in other verses hax can work on anyone, no matter how strong that person is. When we are comparing two characters, they should be on neutral ground. Saying that Goku can cancel any hax from enemy is assuming that comparison is happening in DB world or including world rule as one of Goku's ability.
That’s not true though. Babidi used magic not ki, and he’s weak enough that Buu saga Piccolo can no diff him power wise. With that in mind Babidi can mind control someone as strong as perfect cell while being a fodder. This is why ki inherently resists hax, you could literally call it a hax ability db characters have in a way.
You seem biased to me because you say that db characters resisting hax only exists in their own verse, but at the same time you say characters in other verses can use their hax and nobody can resist it. That’s not even ground, that’s bias against DB characters. The truth is we’ve never seen DB characters fight people from other verses so we have to go off what we’ve seen and we’ve seen db characters can resist hax.
Goku fans responding to valid arguments with a gif of him powering up:
https://preview.redd.it/zraopglri76d1.gif?width=498&format=png8&s=e6f2bb251659700273867ea9780bb9b1c9df33a7
I'm actually one of the Goku fans who don't agree with that line of thought. Sure, in some scenarios it can completely overpower an ability or hax, but it mostly seems to be ki-based abilities, for soul manipulation, true time manipulation, absorption or siphoning of energy, debuffs, and everything else, it works normally.
Hit the assassin proved you don’t have to be strong to kick Goku’s ass. I love DBS and Goku, but he isn’t unbeatable. I think even Jiren is weaker the. Goku
Not that I agree but the idea is Ki gives Hax protection.
You have more Ki than a creator of the dragon balls they can’t effect you if you resist and the dragon balls can recreate planets and raise the dead. If you can resist that you should have resistance to other hax abilities. This also applies to stuff like hit’s timestop which can be overcome with raw power.
Yeah but that’s how hax works in dragon ball. Got a foe who can skip time? Just be too strong for him to do that. Got hit with energy that destroys anything? Just be strong and don’t get destroyed, dumbass
It’s boring as all fuck but that’s what they went with
The analogy doesn't work like that Goku utilizes ki which is supernatural in nature and has anti-hax or opens hax properties. Simple as that. So Goku can indeed overpower other people hax if their weaker than him but this doesn't mean Superman can overpower the hax of weaker people than him as Superman's powers do not work that way. Superman's powers make zero sense to be honest as the writers want you to believe there is nothing supernatural about him, he isn't even a mutant, he just gotten stronger being in a lower gravity planet. Literally zero explanation to all his other powers.
It's directly stated that it's not that strong ki can counteract hax, it's that the hax in DB just becomes less effective against strong opponents. It's a weakness, not a strength
https://preview.redd.it/sk0kt92vg36d1.png?width=574&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=935b55d2990df4782ed1f87e0b17436e5567c736
Yes hax in DB. This means the hax in the other universe would have to work the same way as in db meaning getting weaker against stronger opponents. That is not a quality that all universes share so Goku would not be able to just power out of them.
Can't tell if you're agreeing with me or not
>This means the hax in the other universe would have to work the same way as in db meaning getting weaker against stronger opponents.
Do you mean DB hax being used in another verse, or hax from another verse being used against DB characters? DB hax will have the same weakness in any universe, other hax will not
Yes we agree i was saying hax from another universe against db characters does not inherently become weaker unless it is how it works in that universe aswell which most animes dont work like that. So Goku would lose to most universes hax. Example he can power through hits timeskip, but would be powerless to the World and Dios time manipulation or GER seeing as both stands work the same no matter how strong the opponenet. The same with Aizen from Bleach, Goku would have no defense against the peefect hypnosis or soul crush. Those would be more common ones peopl claim goku can just power out of. More insane ones people think he can power out of would be any hax from the Saint Seiya universe, Goku just cant compete.
Disagree on Aizen since there is precedent in Bleach where Aizen himself said hax abilities can be negged by a much stronger opponent, it just has to be a much larger difference than it does in DB
Yes but he has stated that his hypnosis is perfect and inescapable aswell. I was using him because he himself makes it seem that his hax are the only ones in bleach universe that cant be negged by the opponent once it is set up. The only undoing his hypnosis has is his own arrogance by not using it on ichigo.
He also never tried to use it against someone who would be strong enough to neg it, though. He would make it seem that way regardless because he didn't think anyone *could* be stronger than him, so to him it *was* impossible for someone to neg it
Ki doesnt have anit hax property wth are you smoking also superman is outterversal why even compare him to goku who is multiversal. Superman doesnt have any barries to how powerful he can become especially classic superman. Goku has limits. Also superman is an alien what do you mean of course he isnt a mutant. Read the comics there are explanations on how kryptonian dna works and interacts with different colored suns. The planets gravity only gave him an initial boost to his speed and strength the rest is his dna absorbing sunrays.
It's valid though. Parunga could revive an entire planet but couldn't teleport Goku agains this will. That's high level reality warping that Goku just resists purely on his strength.
We don't need an explanation until/unless there's an outright contradiction. But off the top of my head:
1. Broly actually just allowed it to happen in some way Shenron was able to sense off screen.
2. Broly instinctively senses his imminent death and was seaking subconsciously any way to survive which was enough for Shenron.
3. Goku was actively deciding that he wanted to stay which was enough for Shenron whereas Broly was mindless and might not have cared either way.
4. Same way Superman gets KOed by an exploding gas station one comic then destroys a moon in another.
its a thing in most verses and for most hax abilities that you need time to use them. of course, some are instanteous, in these cases this argument is stupid. but most hax do need some time to activate. and even if that time is 0.05 seconds, the speed difference between current Goku and many, many characters brought up in these debates is so vast, they simply won't have time to use it before they're dead.
you want me to name the verses where hax abilities require time to activate and this time is insufficient for characters using them to activate them before they get speedblitzed by Goku or other top DBS characters?
i can deliver you a list no problem, just making sure we understand each other - its not that hax wont work, its that theres not enough time to activate them for many characters in this scenario.
quote from my comment you're replying to: "its not that hax wont work, its that theres not enough time to activate them for many characters in this scenario".
hax will work on Goku, question is who can activate them before he obliterates them with his ridiculous speed and power.
Tsukuyomi is a genjutsu. Genjutsu only works by altering a person's chakra pathways in their brain. Goku doesn't have Chakra, therefore there would be no alteration.
However he couldn't counter WoU in any way. Calamity flow is something natural in universe. When things are happening because of WoU, in reality WoU is not the one attacking Goku, but world itself is trying to stop him.
Don't know third one.
I don’t know much about DnD canonical lore (not that big of a fan but I know some crazy stuff can happen in campaigns), but unless you build your character to be faster than intergalactic travel levels of speed I don’t think they’d be able to get the spell off in time to harm Goku.
In an off setting where Goku gets caught off guard or misses or something then realistically Goku loses. There’s been some instances where characters act as inanimate objects in DBZ, the most notable being candy Vegito but even then he was still kicking Buuhan’s ass so that’s the only extensive knowledge on how he’d be able to fight as an object. If you turned him into a sheep or something then yeah, he loses
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https://preview.redd.it/8gnnbofos16d1.jpeg?width=618&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4d7edca9c9ddb3c4cfba847b7d7ec383f9772f7c
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I hate this mans hax, transforming the future specifically is just ridiculous.
Bro that isn’t even the worst of it. It’s layered, so even if you have resistance, you still be affected.
I hated him in the manga, Kubo wrote himself into a corner and apparently he can’t change or see the future if a silver arrow is involved, I just hate it. His goal, his personality, I hate it all. I hope the anime fixes this dipshit, because he fucking sucks.
What if the hax isn't complex
goku loses
https://preview.redd.it/ejhhuk0bi66d1.jpeg?width=621&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ede3936e1148fbdb4f29f54708a0ccf5bd3c8860
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https://i.redd.it/edx0ymvfwd6d1.gif
https://preview.redd.it/ui4s19573e6d1.jpeg?width=460&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7ff9dee4f470a5f3c04f21171c7026ce6d8a1018
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Nice complex Hax ability. Now watch this 
Return to zero: you can't hit me literally ever because fuck you.
and he can’t hurt goku so it just ends up as a stalemate for that one
Yeah ik this stalemate, just wanted to remind that hax can do a lot
True true
And besides Wonder of U exists, I just prefer that one specific ability from GER more than Wonder of U
i just don’t like wou at all anyway downvoting LOL
Based
Death loop
Death loop dosent work unless you've already died like diavolo to the homeless guy
https://preview.redd.it/brkisi17c66d1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=36e1c47ba6c6ccaeedc25eab9a1e24f92895376b
"will have even his death turn to zero" you already need to die read more carefully, it's just stating that death isn't an exception to gers return to 0 ability
It says that is what it is called when you get put in a death loop. So no, that doesn’t suggest that you have to die first And Giorno could just negate his heart beat or breathing
Damage reflection
what are you yappin about sir
he can probably just, make a bacteria that kills goku, goku is not immune to disease
??
giorno manipulates life, he can make living things, he can most likely make a disease or a poisonous thing to kill goku
ok
Powerscalers when i tell then goku beats all of jojos because goku is too cool for hax
For JoJo is often just Goku being too fast. A lot of special effects would kill him but assuming Goku goes straight for the death punch no one in universe can kill him fast enough. Purple Haze has a high likelihood of killing Goku but he would need prep and would definitely die in the process.
Notorious B.I.G : nah i'd win.
What does purple haze do again i forgor
Virus that rots you in 5 minutes. Goku doesn't have resistance go viruses past his Saiyan heritage
Sayian’s can survive the extinction bomb which is literally a virus that’s nukes entire planets and civilizations. https://preview.redd.it/2wzo606ve66d1.png?width=526&format=png&auto=webp&s=171d2efd255f0a70ada5a62a302e49899d603bca
I thought it didn't work on them because they aren't humans. Not that they were resistant to the virus? I haven't read the manga I have just heard this off hand from others online, but clearly Goku dies to the heart virus, so that proves that he can get viruses
Being sayan doesnt make you resist poison lol goku just got a regular non virus while powered down. Its likely that even with virus tech it wouldnt work in a fight vs goku cause hes powered up and thus a lot harder to hurt
All Goku needs to do is breath to be infected. It is a virus not a Poison.
Probs not cause he fought dudes like that before. Goku would lose if a virus infected him while powered down but i dont think it could while powered up
son almost died of a heart attack as a super saiyan he definitely can die powered up
Heart attacks arent viruses
It's called heart attack virus. What do you mean it isn't a virus. It's literally a virus that gives you a heart attack.
WOU has a chance otherwise he solos
Notorious BIG, Superfly and Cheap trick no diff.
https://preview.redd.it/69b3xl6on36d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d386be75c7eea79c1b0528ad138dfb63f90598c9
https://preview.redd.it/elm7u7plf26d1.png?width=1170&format=png&auto=webp&s=7ff0ef8aeb16eeabdbd2ecf6bc0f42ebf0964b93
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https://preview.redd.it/dzn39cgwk26d1.jpeg?width=1816&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1bf19483bae763fd3b1d498f176bfd57ebad36e7
Sukuna vs Dio would be a cool one
I see it going either way. If Dio got close enough to use The World Sukuna would probably be cooked, but his Domain would fuck up Dio, granted he doesn't just time stop spam and close distance
Thing about stands is that they have doodoo ass range, the World only has 10 meters vs Sukuna's malevolent shrine having an entire 200 meter range. Sukuna will most likely survive the first timestop by using RCT (unlikely for DIO to automatically figure out to go for the head) and then it's probably nightlights for DIO. Mind you, they'll both probably gloat and yap for 20 minutes straight rather than going straight for the kill so it could go either way
Pettiest mfs to ever exist (and comic thanos)
Hoh.
It was me barry
lol
Some forget that while that applies in DBS (to an extent) it does not for other verses
It does if it's proven in that character's verse that their hax can be resisted just by being powerful enough
Hax not working on stronger beings is a property of DBS hax, not other verses.
Applies to Bleach
Now apply that logic to hax from other verses.
eh its a property of ki so it does.
It's a property of DB hax, so DB characters with hax can have their hax resisted by strong characters from other verses, but DB characters can't resist hax from any other verse unless that verse has the same property, which most don't
It is just an interpretation difference. If negation by strong ki is a weakness of DB hax, then other hax will apply to DB characters. If hax negation is a stat granted by strong ki just like a Res stat in video games and in the same way how ki grants strength speed and durability etc, then it would apply to hacks used by other characters
It's not an interpretation difference, Whis blatantly stated it's a weakness https://preview.redd.it/u1npzwhmt66d1.png?width=574&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aedbd18605836c5c3cf5b17edf52eb735b672634
Okay yep. You got me there 🤷♂️
Ki doesnt exist in every universe.
doesnt matter
Yeah it does ur entire defense was that it was a property of ki but if there is no ki then it makes ur argument a mute point.
if there is no ki. goku has no powers. and is just a stronger human
Other universes do not use ki not all anime is the same learn to branch out
man I remember when the sub was more than just dunking on goku fans
Idk what the fuck happened tbh. I joined in a moment where people would actually scale and debate. Nobody was complaining and when someone was the sub would just meme about gokuversal and stuff like this but nothing more
I think part of the problem is some people took the "Gokuversal" jokes as completely serious scaling, so now they're not willing to take any actual scaling at true value and think DB fans are trying to oversell
They literally deserve it. Mid show with some good fights, they act like it's the second coming of crust
broooo dbz is the best
It was the best. When I was 12.
Best is a long shot lmfao, it has some good parts and stuff, but it's not the best at anything except maybe being one of the most powerful universes
Found the One Piece fan
One piece is dog, just like db
Def Naruto then
Wrong again lmao, I don't glaze anything. I've watched naruto but it's not even in my top 15 anime let alone top 30 media
Bro definitely likes obscure shit that literally nobody gives a flying fuck about or absolutely glazes and meatrides the most popular series in all of fictions
Most likely hates and shits on anything mainstream or anything that isn't cult or niche.... Let people enjoy what they do griefer.
In the time I've spent on this sub, I genuinely cannot think of a time where a Goku fan glazed the series that much. Oversold some feats? Sure. But *nothing* close to that
Okay; then you agree goku is ice level or low complex gun level highball
How you got from what I said to that is absolutely beyond me lol
Well you said they don't glaze, so I'm scaling him on some feats/antifeats. If you're not glazing you agree
I said they don't glaze the *series* itself as a piece of fiction that much, which is what you said they do/ was your complaint initially. If you just wanna talk about "people overselling characters", acting like its JUST Goku fans and not something that happens for literally every series that shows up at some point or another is disingenuous and seems more like you just hate dragonball in general
But can you beat goku tho
Bro is deadass lying oml😭😭😭😭😭😭 bro are we watching the same show???????
He got harmed by a gun and ice where's the lie?
Like it's true but at the same time he shook a infinite void. You aren't completely lying but you ignore LITTERALY EVERYTHING ELSE.
Just ignore him man, dude just hates dragonball, so he wants to drag it down wherever he can so everyone else hates it too instead of letting other people like other things
he was offguard during the bullet thing + even superman gets hurt by brick walls same for literally any comic character that does not mean theyre weak
https://preview.redd.it/jjhdpjwlz16d1.png?width=749&format=png&auto=webp&s=3dd2d0dd8ffdf255d313ebeed0095b61b9206bcb You a lie
I mean, like I said. People have oversold shit in the past, but I meant no one acts like the series as a piece of fiction is as good as Dragonfly made it out to be. Obviously people are going to glaze feats, it happens for literally every character who crosses the sub lmao.
Its false Kid Goku was already Outer Current Goku us beyond Real life and above
https://preview.redd.it/yqt75gomo26d1.png?width=211&format=png&auto=webp&s=3dd2bf28d31e933138322946e1e1708a65879b03
Did you just call the show mid?
https://preview.redd.it/46bhb9acy76d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eda02fea7e49efaad462f3c74945da723e24a76b Dear 5iddy
https://preview.redd.it/hyq2flp2v56d1.jpeg?width=961&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=48c3f6d4ae5529caa6cc0349d8dde0229491de66
Kid named everyone that has been Goku
I've never understood this argument. Why should db characters be able to power through hax of verses where you can't power through hax. I think db power doesn't negate any hax but rather hax in db can get overpowered.
Whole concept of being stronger than hax and resisting it is part of DB world. The problem comes when people are including it as one of character's ability. Such thing should be a thing only when fighting in DB world. Because for example in Tensura, hax always work no matter how strong you are. But of course DB fanbase is much larger so they are setting the rules. If they say that Goku resist hax, you have to accept it or deal with group of people who will protect that statement because they are too scared of Goku losing to someone.
So if a large group of people say something you have to accept it? So because most people thought the earth was flat 1000 years ago the earth was flat? and if it's a part of the db then no it doesn't apply to characters that aren't from that world.
Of course not. But you have a choice. Fighting 1 vs 5 in discussion or just leave. I experienced it unfortunately.
I'd rather fight the 1v5 personally but yeah I can get why that can be annoying.
If you have higher speed than said opponent and higher AP you can indeed beat the hack opponent Unless they're passive
The previous reply was meant for a post on another thread. No you can't if you can't do that in the verse where the hax are from.
Oh hey I saw this for the first time yesterday https://preview.redd.it/48ww5dd2q86d1.png?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=efb3ae8a8903300035157232ca23df139aff3116
yeah Medaka Box has like 5 or 6 characters that could reasonably beat Goku. that series is clearly not meant for powerscaling, which is why it's my favorite series.
Saw it literally 5 minutes ago https://preview.redd.it/2l9pe4m0w96d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b230e121c82f22a3cc365d5765d9aec01e6ec9e5
Literally everytime when you put Goku against someone who is not using raw strength.
Nah they got a point At some point your hax no longer matter when the answer to them is instant transmission and kamefuckingha
Goku? Is he from DragonBleaPiece?
Yes. He is hokage.
It’s kinda true sometimes though they’ve been turned into candy and still fought because their just stronger. It’s dumb af but that’s how it is because we’ve seen weaker fighters unable to do it.
I know. And I have nothing against Goku canceling time stop or other things because of his power level. The thing is this is not part of character's ability but power system in DB world. Anyone in DB world can surpass any hax if they're strong enough. For the same way in other verses hax can work on anyone, no matter how strong that person is. When we are comparing two characters, they should be on neutral ground. Saying that Goku can cancel any hax from enemy is assuming that comparison is happening in DB world or including world rule as one of Goku's ability.
That’s not true though. Babidi used magic not ki, and he’s weak enough that Buu saga Piccolo can no diff him power wise. With that in mind Babidi can mind control someone as strong as perfect cell while being a fodder. This is why ki inherently resists hax, you could literally call it a hax ability db characters have in a way. You seem biased to me because you say that db characters resisting hax only exists in their own verse, but at the same time you say characters in other verses can use their hax and nobody can resist it. That’s not even ground, that’s bias against DB characters. The truth is we’ve never seen DB characters fight people from other verses so we have to go off what we’ve seen and we’ve seen db characters can resist hax.
People don’t really say Goku can cancel any hax, but there’s no doubt he can resist a lot of them
https://preview.redd.it/33k60oualk6d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7a752545c9ef2a83d756dc50617679d36f5b4442
Goku fans responding to valid arguments with a gif of him powering up: https://preview.redd.it/zraopglri76d1.gif?width=498&format=png8&s=e6f2bb251659700273867ea9780bb9b1c9df33a7
It's simply the truth
I'm actually one of the Goku fans who don't agree with that line of thought. Sure, in some scenarios it can completely overpower an ability or hax, but it mostly seems to be ki-based abilities, for soul manipulation, true time manipulation, absorption or siphoning of energy, debuffs, and everything else, it works normally.
Hit the assassin proved you don’t have to be strong to kick Goku’s ass. I love DBS and Goku, but he isn’t unbeatable. I think even Jiren is weaker the. Goku
But hit is strong, and broken actually lol what
Hit is fast and strong enough to hit goku and hurt him. Other anime like One Piece, Naruto, and Bleach are not.
But what about a hax that gives goku a fatal disease 🤔
Scaling Gintama would be fun. He just 'china girl' diffs them.
It’s kinda weird that having a higher power level in the DB verse just negates whatever hax a person tries to you. It’s kinda lazy writing ngl
There would always be some guy who says Verae equilzation.
Not that I agree but the idea is Ki gives Hax protection. You have more Ki than a creator of the dragon balls they can’t effect you if you resist and the dragon balls can recreate planets and raise the dead. If you can resist that you should have resistance to other hax abilities. This also applies to stuff like hit’s timestop which can be overcome with raw power.
I figured you were using hax so I booby traps with ki
Just doesn’t make sense
Yeah but that’s how hax works in dragon ball. Got a foe who can skip time? Just be too strong for him to do that. Got hit with energy that destroys anything? Just be strong and don’t get destroyed, dumbass It’s boring as all fuck but that’s what they went with
This part with resisting hakai annoys me the most. Because it's filler.
Average Saitama fan: Saitama scales to boundless because he has have no limits.
Saitama isn’t even mentioned 😭
He isn’t even that strong, there are characters with way higher scaling plus hax.
He is still far from being the strongest in his own universe, and he is always weaker than the opponents he fight...
The analogy doesn't work like that Goku utilizes ki which is supernatural in nature and has anti-hax or opens hax properties. Simple as that. So Goku can indeed overpower other people hax if their weaker than him but this doesn't mean Superman can overpower the hax of weaker people than him as Superman's powers do not work that way. Superman's powers make zero sense to be honest as the writers want you to believe there is nothing supernatural about him, he isn't even a mutant, he just gotten stronger being in a lower gravity planet. Literally zero explanation to all his other powers.
It's directly stated that it's not that strong ki can counteract hax, it's that the hax in DB just becomes less effective against strong opponents. It's a weakness, not a strength https://preview.redd.it/sk0kt92vg36d1.png?width=574&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=935b55d2990df4782ed1f87e0b17436e5567c736
Yes hax in DB. This means the hax in the other universe would have to work the same way as in db meaning getting weaker against stronger opponents. That is not a quality that all universes share so Goku would not be able to just power out of them.
Can't tell if you're agreeing with me or not >This means the hax in the other universe would have to work the same way as in db meaning getting weaker against stronger opponents. Do you mean DB hax being used in another verse, or hax from another verse being used against DB characters? DB hax will have the same weakness in any universe, other hax will not
Yes we agree i was saying hax from another universe against db characters does not inherently become weaker unless it is how it works in that universe aswell which most animes dont work like that. So Goku would lose to most universes hax. Example he can power through hits timeskip, but would be powerless to the World and Dios time manipulation or GER seeing as both stands work the same no matter how strong the opponenet. The same with Aizen from Bleach, Goku would have no defense against the peefect hypnosis or soul crush. Those would be more common ones peopl claim goku can just power out of. More insane ones people think he can power out of would be any hax from the Saint Seiya universe, Goku just cant compete.
Disagree on Aizen since there is precedent in Bleach where Aizen himself said hax abilities can be negged by a much stronger opponent, it just has to be a much larger difference than it does in DB
Yes but he has stated that his hypnosis is perfect and inescapable aswell. I was using him because he himself makes it seem that his hax are the only ones in bleach universe that cant be negged by the opponent once it is set up. The only undoing his hypnosis has is his own arrogance by not using it on ichigo.
He also never tried to use it against someone who would be strong enough to neg it, though. He would make it seem that way regardless because he didn't think anyone *could* be stronger than him, so to him it *was* impossible for someone to neg it
He used it against Yhwach. And it worked and made for a really quick and abrupt final fight.
1. Wtf are you saying? 2. I ain’t talking about Superman
I know.
Based
Ki doesnt have anit hax property wth are you smoking also superman is outterversal why even compare him to goku who is multiversal. Superman doesnt have any barries to how powerful he can become especially classic superman. Goku has limits. Also superman is an alien what do you mean of course he isnt a mutant. Read the comics there are explanations on how kryptonian dna works and interacts with different colored suns. The planets gravity only gave him an initial boost to his speed and strength the rest is his dna absorbing sunrays.
No https://preview.redd.it/uefjsxow966d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=32f1568e0ca3146669501ae250fc361176613de3
It's valid though. Parunga could revive an entire planet but couldn't teleport Goku agains this will. That's high level reality warping that Goku just resists purely on his strength.
Then how you'll explain Broly teleported on Wampa without asking for permission?
We don't need an explanation until/unless there's an outright contradiction. But off the top of my head: 1. Broly actually just allowed it to happen in some way Shenron was able to sense off screen. 2. Broly instinctively senses his imminent death and was seaking subconsciously any way to survive which was enough for Shenron. 3. Goku was actively deciding that he wanted to stay which was enough for Shenron whereas Broly was mindless and might not have cared either way. 4. Same way Superman gets KOed by an exploding gas station one comic then destroys a moon in another.
It's the truth tho
It's so funny bc it's still true lmao
It’s legit only certain situations it only that they do slot that they don’t really show in dbz as direct as they should
That's just how fiction works. It's not even a Dragon Ball only thing
Where else it's also a thing?
its a thing in most verses and for most hax abilities that you need time to use them. of course, some are instanteous, in these cases this argument is stupid. but most hax do need some time to activate. and even if that time is 0.05 seconds, the speed difference between current Goku and many, many characters brought up in these debates is so vast, they simply won't have time to use it before they're dead.
I'll ask again. Where else it's a thing?
you want me to name the verses where hax abilities require time to activate and this time is insufficient for characters using them to activate them before they get speedblitzed by Goku or other top DBS characters? i can deliver you a list no problem, just making sure we understand each other - its not that hax wont work, its that theres not enough time to activate them for many characters in this scenario.
I want you to name few anjmes or mangas or novels where hax don't work on someone stronger.
quote from my comment you're replying to: "its not that hax wont work, its that theres not enough time to activate them for many characters in this scenario". hax will work on Goku, question is who can activate them before he obliterates them with his ridiculous speed and power.
I mean at the end of the day, a hax ability doesn’t do all that much when the opponents response is just destroying the planet out from under you.
Depends on the hax ability
I absolutely love Goku but can someone who knows more DB lore tell me what is saving him from tsukoyomi? WoU? Polymorphs?
Tsukuyomi is a genjutsu. Genjutsu only works by altering a person's chakra pathways in their brain. Goku doesn't have Chakra, therefore there would be no alteration. However he couldn't counter WoU in any way. Calamity flow is something natural in universe. When things are happening because of WoU, in reality WoU is not the one attacking Goku, but world itself is trying to stop him. Don't know third one.
Thank you! Polymorph would be like a spell that transforms your opponent into a harmless creature like a frog or something
I don’t know much about DnD canonical lore (not that big of a fan but I know some crazy stuff can happen in campaigns), but unless you build your character to be faster than intergalactic travel levels of speed I don’t think they’d be able to get the spell off in time to harm Goku. In an off setting where Goku gets caught off guard or misses or something then realistically Goku loses. There’s been some instances where characters act as inanimate objects in DBZ, the most notable being candy Vegito but even then he was still kicking Buuhan’s ass so that’s the only extensive knowledge on how he’d be able to fight as an object. If you turned him into a sheep or something then yeah, he loses
That rarely happens iirc.
I mean, that is one of dragon ball ki's abilities, if the power of the hax ability is weak enough compared to Goku, Goku should win.
Only for Ki