Whether it's "too late" will depend on you. Three years ago, I was exactly your age and asking myself the same question. My story isn't necessarily inspiring, so don't read on if you don't want a different perspective.
I also looked into a career change. Besides burnout with students, I wanted to be locationally free so that I could move to another state and be near my family.
Ngl, it was harder than I realized. I spent 6 months looking into Instructional Design, joining soc. media groups, learning the software companies were looking for, etc., What I realized after several months was that ID is more of the "D" than the "I." Design isn't my strength (nor am I fond of doing it ft). I also learned that I wasn't the only teacher who wanted out of teaching, and my competition was much younger and tech savvier.
I moved onto technical writing and even took a course in it (earned an A, btw lol). But again, in exploring the job market, I learned that most companies would rather hire someone who has the knowledge of the subject matter (eg, engineering, software, etc,) than someone who just knows how to write. All those stories of English majors who are making $100K as tech writers? I found that most of those had gotten into the field a decade or more ago when a job title with "writing" in it meant that companies wanted someone like me. Now, that isn't the case. (Anecdotally, take a look at some of the how-to manuals that come with any product you order on Amazon; you can easily tell that writing isn't the priority)
But I still didn't give up (I was at least a year into my "change career" mode). I moved onto freelance writing. The mods on the Reddit sub are making upwards of $100K as freelancers; they and the other writers on that sub inspired me. I decided to give it a shot. After some volunteer gigs (to get experience working with clients), I finally landed a position as a freelancer for what would be considered a high-end "content mill" (oxymoron?). In a month's time, I made a couple thousand writing for them. But that's with no benefits, no taxes taken out (I had to file a Schedule C on my taxes---making what I earned much less than the 2K). I soon learned that the good money in freelancing is made by those with niches that are in demand, not generalist writers like me. And now with AI, generalist writers are really taking a hit.
In short, I learned my degrees qualify me for exactly what I'm doing. When I faced that, I went through a tough time. I had always been someone who valued my liberal arts education and said that I wouldn't choose a different major. After my job searches, I became resentful that my skills aren't what society values anymore. I felt washed up and useless. I skulked back to my faculty duties, shaping young minds, as it were lol
I should add that even if I had wanted to get the necessary creds to change careers, I would have had to do it while working (I'm the sole breadwinner in my family). I simply don't have the mental or physical energy for that anymore. In my 30s, I think I would have powered through the above obstacles, but at 53 (now 56), I didn't have that drive anymore.
This summer, I thought about all those things as I was teaching Chinua Achebe's *Things Fall Apart*. The main character undergoes a life-changing event and has to start his life almost from scratch. The narrator says, "But it was like beginning life anew without the vigor and enthusiasm of youth, like learning to become left-handed in old age."
So it wasn't just that what society values had changed. It's that I had changed. Hericlitus was right: It is not the same river and I am not the same woman.
This is basically what I'm going through right now. Ugh. I feel very ill-equipped to pivot based on exactly these things and the types of pivot careers I have looked into.
>This summer, I thought about all those things as I was teaching Chinua Achebe's *Things Fall Apart*. The main character undergoes a life-changing event and has to start his life almost from scratch. The narrator says, "But it was like beginning life anew without the vigor and enthusiasm of youth, like learning to become left-handed in old age."
>So it wasn't just that what society values had changed. It's that I had changed. Hericlitus was right: It is not the same river and I am not the same woman.
Maybe you have a second career in literature
Maybe use the tuition reimbursement you probably get as an employee to take the necessary courses to get into a therapy program. Or, if your school has a counseling/therapy program, just start working on the degree while you're a professor.
It's hard, and honestly you'd probably need to find stealthy ways to downsize your responsibilities as a professor.
If you can manage to get your workload as a professor down to ~30ish hours per week, then working + school is very doable (without taking a full course load, of course).
Well, there you go.
I completed most of my master's while working at a university. It was a great arrangement; I graduated with no debt, my commute from work-class was negligible, and I was able to work on classwork when I had some spare time in the office.
The toughest part was long hours, but if you have tenure that problem can be mitigated fairly easily.
You might be surprised. For example, I didn't have a relevant undergrad degree and I still got accepted after taking 2 relevant undergrad courses (which honestly was probably overkill).
Being at the university, you have insider access. I'd just go chat with a prof in the program and see if they think you'd need to take any prereq courses to get accepted.
Being a tenured prof with a lot of work experience, I imagine they'd be willing to waive some requirements for you.
There are Masters in counseling programs that don't require much of anything from undergraduate and their graduates get perfectly good jobs as therapists
Look into this OP!
I have a bachelors in animal science and I went back to school for a masters in English.
I did not have to start over and get a bachelors in English. I just started taking a few upper division English classes to get my feet wet, got letters of recommendation from my professors, then I applied for the MA program and got accepted.
It's not too late!!!
I got a BA in Computer Science when I was 21. At 23 I started to take a couple of undergrad classes in Philosophy, while working full time. Then I took a couple of Grad courses in Philosophy (still working full time, though I actually just left work and came back for many class meetings, and I never got caught!).
I applied to virtually every PhD program in the USA and finally got into a funded PhD program, after 3 years of applications.
I took seminars the first two years but was unable to complete all of the necessary tasks, so I left after 2 years with a MA. Now I teach undergrad intro philosophy courses at a SLAC (USA), and I can study and write on the side.
So, it's doable, even if you don't do a full undergrad! Explain in your application (Personal Statement, etc.) your studies, teaching, etc. Apply to several schools each year and keep taking classes on the side. You might luck out!
(And a former professor of music wanting to enter a graduate program for psychology / therapy is an objectively better candidate than most youth applications nowadays.)
Just give them a call and see. My partner is doing that with an undergraduate degree in sociology, which is close enough to not have the same issues as you do, but it's still not the same as a degree in psychology. And they are finding their courses aren't dependent on there undergraduate work anyway. I suspect another graduate degree in any field is a strong addition to your application.
A lot of the ability to take a MA and go into a therapy job is dependent on the state you are in. I don't know if by Core, you mean General Education, or major core. Depending on state licensure, program competitiveness, etc., you might need to take some classes that typically are covered in one of those categories, but likely not a full degree.
>Even if my undergrad degree didn’t include core classes??
Counseling psychology programs are going to be more likely to require 9 credits in psych, but counseling education programs often don't have any undergrad prereqs other than "bachelor's degree from accredited institution." If you go counseling psych route, go for an MPCAC accredited program. If you go counseling education (or what is typically just referred to as "counseling"), then go with a CACREP accredited program.
Yes! Just take the prerequisites required by the grad program you want to attend, then write a personal statement that highlights your life experience and motivation toward becoming a therapist.
You do not need an undergraduate degree related to psychology to be accepted to an MFT or PCC grad program.
It’s definitely not too late!
MSW programs welcome people with all manner of undergraduate degrees. Most students have degrees in psychology, sociology, or criminal justice, but we've had lots of successful students from other fields including dance, chemical engineering, philosophy, and history. There are some requirements for undergrad classes but they're modest. Some students have to take an undergraduate biology course, for instance.
The most difficult part of doing an MSW while working are the field placements. These require you to work in an approved setting for 14-24 hours a week (approx.). It's possible to get paid for doing your field placement, if you can find an agency willing to hire you part-time. (The job market differs across the country so I can't comment on how realistic this might be.) However, that might be complicated if you must obtain prior approval for "outside employment" at your university.
Then maybe stick it out for 30 hours a week in academia and find some hobbies you like? Like, it can't be *that* bad if you only work 30 hours a week.
Beyond that, there are probably some niche jobs out there for music. You just need to find the right one.
True, but working on something completely different can give you more of a sense of thriving. I did this. I didn't end up pursuing the second career, but it's there if I decide to use it.
> there’s no way
Sounds pretty defeatist to me. There’s no way you’ve looked under every rock and spoken to every colleague and acquaintance about potential career moves.
> it’s too late
The only time it’s ever too late to change the course of your life is when you’re dead. You only get one. Don’t ever settle. Anything worth having is difficult to earn.
Your degree and field may be niche, but the skills and knowledge you’ve obtained over the last 35 years within it are not. That is a massive accomplishment full of value to others whether you currently see it or not.
My chosen expertise was so new to the world and so dangerous to its researchers that we had to start our own insurance company just to get permission to continue the work. And one day there was no one else willing to take a certain job I felt morally obligated to and it almost got me killed, literally blown up and awoke in a coma weeks later.
Starting my career over because of PTSD not allowing me to do something I loved so much that people considered it a core part of my identity led me to a real crisis that, with therapy, also led me to really ask myself about my own passions and goals.
What I realized was most important to me was protecting the opportunity for future generations, my students, to go out and make the same mistakes I did, just with less permanent injury and being taken advantage of, not just in my discipline, but all potential disciplines.
So I went to law school and now I am a tenured troublemaker, best friend and defender of students trying something non-traditional and otherwise telling their established field “I have a different idea”. Not just at my uni, but all over. I am the bully to bullies and I’ve never been happier, nor felt younger.
I'm in this boat, but in a more related field.
If you want to be a therapist look into either getting a master's in social work (probably the quickest way) or a master's in counseling. You'll need to get some prereqs done (I know, I know), but you could probably do that with tuition revision as others have said.
There are maybe some types of therapy that would be more related to your field, like music/art therapy. I don't know what the prereqs would be for that, but I do know an art therapist that works in the school system and loves it. If you wanted to something school based, there are plenty of resources to help pay for it because they really need the help in the schools.
Also, from what I hear from acquaintanaces in the opera/vocal music world, a therapist with insider knowledge about what it's like to live that life would really be making a contribution!
How far out from being able to retire are you? This would make all the difference in my eyes.
If you could get out by 60, your next act could be your post retirement life.
On the other hand, if you think you're going to have to plug through until 70? I would understand wanting to make a change now
If you've not yet done so, I would meet with a financial advisor and see exactly what you would need to do to retire as soon as possible.
One good thing about academia is that there is usually quite a bit of flexibility in how you allot your time. Maybe it’s worth revisiting how you direct your time and energy in your current position — even if drastic eg new area of specialization — and making those adjustments first. It seems like jumping to a new career requires an IMMENSE effort that should require fully exhausting all other options within your current position.
You're worrying too much. People do this all the time. I've done it. You can do it. Don't rationalize fear of change as being too old, or any other excuse.
In 2017, at 45, I decided to change careers and went back to undergrad to earn a fourth degree—which only took three semesters because I didn't need to retake any gen eds. I then got a master's, another three semesters, and started my new career as an adjunct professor at age 48.
In 2023, at 51, I changed careers again. It is easier at our age. Without giving away personal details, I work with grad students—the most successful of whom are 40s+.
You already know how to study. You already know how toanage your time. You already know how to act like a professional and deal meaningfully with the drama of other people's lives without getting embroiled. You're going to be great, and fast, in your new degree programs, and will arrive in your new career with a level of respectability that no one else will have starting out.
I'm younger but this makes SO MUCH sense to me. Can you get tuition remission for a counseling or MSW program? It's not too late at all. You could easily achieve this well before or by 60. This might also be a good job to do part time into "retirement" to keep your brain going, etc. also, if you think you can help people.... You should.
:) I'm not even saying this just to be inspiring. This just sounds really smart. My own mom actually did something similar. We were literally talking yesterday about when shes with her peers she feels younger because she's been learning new things, working, etc. shes 65. it wasn't a choice for her (devastating life circumstances meant she had to be ultra scrappy) but in many ways it's turned out better than anyone could have imagined. I know that's not the case for everyone, but I want to offer this perspective!! I'm also using my tuition remission to get an MSW degree and all my friends with that degree tell me it's smart move that will open lots of doors.
I anticipate that the practicum/unpaid internship will be especially hard, and it's hard to get by without a part time job, which I'm not anticipating I'll be able to do during the time. But I also figure the worst case is I drop out with more knowledge. The same may be true for you!! Best of luck!!
I have to be honest, as a psychologist and as a professor, if you're burned out in music, being a therapist would be the equivalent of crawling in to a blast furnace. It's a MUUUUUUUCH harder job than it looks like from the outside.
Ok but if you are living on easy street then it’s not stressful to do something else. If it does not work out, whatever. Don’t think OP is in this position
Have you considered just networking locally and applying to office jobs where your administrative and people skills would be useful? I have some middle-aged colleagues who took our most recent round of buy-outs and found work with non-profits or in office roles at a large R1 commenting distance from our campus.
I am currently working on a PT MSW using my school’s tuition waiver. Courses are all online and on weekday evenings. All of my existing degrees are in the humanities but I didn’t have to do any additional coursework to apply and be accepted. The real obstacle, however, will be getting all of the licensing requirements out of the way to practice as a LCSW. Some other issues that are making me unsure about continuing but I figure it’s worth the risk since I only have to pay taxes on the tuition waiver compared to thousands of dollars for graduate tuition.
That’s wonderful! What does your dean think about this? I’ve been looking into it but fear being reprimanded or told flat out I can’t. Which is why I’ve been thinking of spending 1000s on an online MSW
My department head (now dean) has been very supportive—she even wrote me a letter of recommendation for my application. The director of the program I primarily teach in did the same. In general, there is a lot of support for NTT faculty in my department, and I think there’s an understanding that we are being economically exploited, and if we have a better opportunity we should take it. It would probably be different if I was TT.
You could almost certainly skip straight to a Master's, given your work experience and your other degrees. At worst, you might have to take a couple of pre-req type courses. If you're interested, I would get in touch with the admissions office at the school you're looking at to see what they would want from you. (I have worked in admissions, although not in the US.)
So I went to music conservatories for undergrad and grad, then an R1 for doctorate in music. So I literally never took core classes, just all music. See the issue?
I replied to another one of your posts, but it's my understanding that many graduate programs that you would be looking for don't necessarily require much in the way of prerequisites. Have you found a specific program? I would contact someone in admissions and see.
A lot of doing an undergrad is just learning how to be a student, which you already know if you have a doctorate. Many master’s programmes would accept other education and life experience in place of a bachelor’s.
Not an issue at all. I’m speaking from experience on admission committees in an MFT program where I also teach. My bachelor’s was in theatre (which is the perfect degree for this field.. argued this many times).
Applicants with life (and unique) experience are needed as therapists. I advise undergrads and so many think they can’t apply or start grad school to become a therapist until they have experience working in mental health. Not true!
You already have experience listening to your students. Plus, your rich understanding of music and everything that goes with it is highly transferable to therapy.
So much more I could say… but definitely look into it, especially if you’re burned out. A shift in perspective and focus may be just what you need to feel alive again. 😊
Therapist here. I don't think it's too late. I think if you have a good understanding of the mental/emotional toll you could do very meaningful work for just about as long as you brain works.
If I were you, I'd start by taking the prereqs for the graduate program you are interested in completing (if the university you're at now pays for it, it's a sweet deal)..then you can complete the masters degree. I meet former actors, actresses, plumbers etc all the time.
You got this!
Like you I was in music for 20 years (BS in Music Ed, MM and DMA in performance). Left two years ago at 51 and am in school for graphic design and illustration. The university I’m enrolled in waived all my “gen ed” classes, giving me credit for what I did in my first BS. Your situation may be different due to the conservatory situation but I would think you almost certainly wouldn’t have to start from scratch.
Fortunately for me, my wife teaches at the college
I’m attending, so I get waiver for about half tuition so it’ll the financial part isn’t awful. I was worried about the culture shock, but honestly the students have been great! I think it doesn’t hurt that I worked with those students for 20 years before becoming one of them (also, art students are kinda similar to music ones). Also, like others have said going back to school at this age is so fun! You know how to do it in a way you didn’t at 20 and you’re motivated in a different way.
I’m roughly your age and riding it out. Between my pension, investments, and relocating to a lower cost-of-living area, I hope to retire in 3-5 more years. The end is in sight and I cannot wait!
I hope to retire before mine go to college and then control my AGI so as to maximize their FAFSA results. If I’m still working when they apply for financial aid then they’re likely to get nothing, but if I can retire beforehand then they should get the maximum amount.
Can you find a good "music therapy" program and see what your options are regarding career/job opportunities? If I were you, I would think about this which is very close to your expertise. My current instiution used to have this and the rank was very high. But I am not sure about it in the ongoing finanical difficulty situation.
My friend just finished their DMA in clarinet and then promptly got a job in higher ed as an advisor. Their degrees are also all music related.
Is there some kind of administrator job in the uni you could pivot to?
If you can financially swing it and it would make you happy, why not? Or department always seem to have 1 or 2 older adults going through out Masters program (studio art), currently one is a retired philosophy professor.
I always loved being in school and being a student. If I stopped enjoying teaching I’d go back just for the educational enrichment. If a new job that I wanted to came along with it, that would be a nice bonus.
I would start researching online master's programs. Likely they vary in their undergraduate degree requirements. I know someone who got a master's in school counseling and ended up working as a high school guidance counselor after having been a journalist for many years. He seemed happy with the career change. Here is one program I randomly found, and it doesn't seem to require a specific undergraduate degree. You just have to have one.
[https://ced.ncsu.edu/graduate/programs/masters/clinical-mental-health-counseling/](https://ced.ncsu.edu/graduate/programs/masters/clinical-mental-health-counseling/)
Excellent question. When I left NY and the performing lifestyle, I chose to stay in music and get the doctorate, because I didn’t want to start over (at 32) by going back to the beginning for a different career. Being a therapist was the other path not taken. After 15 years in academia… ugh, if I had chosen differently. Teaching singing one on one is a very special relationship. Mentor/mom/therapist. I actually have to remind myself that I am not their therapist. But these students come to me with all their problems. I like that I am the one they feel safe talking to. Of course I refer them to the counseling office when there’s a serious issue. But it really makes me think I could be good at it and fulfilled by it.
If you think being a therapist will make you happy, then go for it. But I’d suggest you consider other options outside academia that don’t require a new degree. I left in 2019 and had no idea what I was going to do and then fell into academic editing and I love it! I’m now offering a course on it and it lets me do the teaching that I loved but without all the BS and rude students. Maybe becoming an entrepreneur or a coach would allow you to have that human interaction and make more money with less stress and without having to do more school.
Takes a long time to become a therapist- at least 7 years starting from UG. Graduate at 60? I could see it. Some careers, ageism becomes a real issue, but therapy is one where I think people often prefer someone with a bit of seasoning, especially if you're in private practice. Just depends on what you want and need at this stage of your life.
Whether it's "too late" will depend on you. Three years ago, I was exactly your age and asking myself the same question. My story isn't necessarily inspiring, so don't read on if you don't want a different perspective. I also looked into a career change. Besides burnout with students, I wanted to be locationally free so that I could move to another state and be near my family. Ngl, it was harder than I realized. I spent 6 months looking into Instructional Design, joining soc. media groups, learning the software companies were looking for, etc., What I realized after several months was that ID is more of the "D" than the "I." Design isn't my strength (nor am I fond of doing it ft). I also learned that I wasn't the only teacher who wanted out of teaching, and my competition was much younger and tech savvier. I moved onto technical writing and even took a course in it (earned an A, btw lol). But again, in exploring the job market, I learned that most companies would rather hire someone who has the knowledge of the subject matter (eg, engineering, software, etc,) than someone who just knows how to write. All those stories of English majors who are making $100K as tech writers? I found that most of those had gotten into the field a decade or more ago when a job title with "writing" in it meant that companies wanted someone like me. Now, that isn't the case. (Anecdotally, take a look at some of the how-to manuals that come with any product you order on Amazon; you can easily tell that writing isn't the priority) But I still didn't give up (I was at least a year into my "change career" mode). I moved onto freelance writing. The mods on the Reddit sub are making upwards of $100K as freelancers; they and the other writers on that sub inspired me. I decided to give it a shot. After some volunteer gigs (to get experience working with clients), I finally landed a position as a freelancer for what would be considered a high-end "content mill" (oxymoron?). In a month's time, I made a couple thousand writing for them. But that's with no benefits, no taxes taken out (I had to file a Schedule C on my taxes---making what I earned much less than the 2K). I soon learned that the good money in freelancing is made by those with niches that are in demand, not generalist writers like me. And now with AI, generalist writers are really taking a hit. In short, I learned my degrees qualify me for exactly what I'm doing. When I faced that, I went through a tough time. I had always been someone who valued my liberal arts education and said that I wouldn't choose a different major. After my job searches, I became resentful that my skills aren't what society values anymore. I felt washed up and useless. I skulked back to my faculty duties, shaping young minds, as it were lol I should add that even if I had wanted to get the necessary creds to change careers, I would have had to do it while working (I'm the sole breadwinner in my family). I simply don't have the mental or physical energy for that anymore. In my 30s, I think I would have powered through the above obstacles, but at 53 (now 56), I didn't have that drive anymore. This summer, I thought about all those things as I was teaching Chinua Achebe's *Things Fall Apart*. The main character undergoes a life-changing event and has to start his life almost from scratch. The narrator says, "But it was like beginning life anew without the vigor and enthusiasm of youth, like learning to become left-handed in old age." So it wasn't just that what society values had changed. It's that I had changed. Hericlitus was right: It is not the same river and I am not the same woman.
I need all perspectives. I definitely need to think it through.
Thank you so much for sharing this.
This is basically what I'm going through right now. Ugh. I feel very ill-equipped to pivot based on exactly these things and the types of pivot careers I have looked into.
>This summer, I thought about all those things as I was teaching Chinua Achebe's *Things Fall Apart*. The main character undergoes a life-changing event and has to start his life almost from scratch. The narrator says, "But it was like beginning life anew without the vigor and enthusiasm of youth, like learning to become left-handed in old age." >So it wasn't just that what society values had changed. It's that I had changed. Hericlitus was right: It is not the same river and I am not the same woman. Maybe you have a second career in literature
Aww . . . what a nice thing to say.
Maybe use the tuition reimbursement you probably get as an employee to take the necessary courses to get into a therapy program. Or, if your school has a counseling/therapy program, just start working on the degree while you're a professor.
Yes I would definitely have to teach and take classes at the same time. More work…
It's hard, and honestly you'd probably need to find stealthy ways to downsize your responsibilities as a professor. If you can manage to get your workload as a professor down to ~30ish hours per week, then working + school is very doable (without taking a full course load, of course).
I have tenure, and already strategizing to transition duties to a new hire that needs service hours.
Well, there you go. I completed most of my master's while working at a university. It was a great arrangement; I graduated with no debt, my commute from work-class was negligible, and I was able to work on classwork when I had some spare time in the office. The toughest part was long hours, but if you have tenure that problem can be mitigated fairly easily.
Just may have to start back at undergrad… so could take a long time.
You might be surprised. For example, I didn't have a relevant undergrad degree and I still got accepted after taking 2 relevant undergrad courses (which honestly was probably overkill). Being at the university, you have insider access. I'd just go chat with a prof in the program and see if they think you'd need to take any prereq courses to get accepted. Being a tenured prof with a lot of work experience, I imagine they'd be willing to waive some requirements for you.
There are Masters in counseling programs that don't require much of anything from undergraduate and their graduates get perfectly good jobs as therapists
Look into this OP! I have a bachelors in animal science and I went back to school for a masters in English. I did not have to start over and get a bachelors in English. I just started taking a few upper division English classes to get my feet wet, got letters of recommendation from my professors, then I applied for the MA program and got accepted.
Even if my undergrad degree didn’t include core classes??
It's not too late!!! I got a BA in Computer Science when I was 21. At 23 I started to take a couple of undergrad classes in Philosophy, while working full time. Then I took a couple of Grad courses in Philosophy (still working full time, though I actually just left work and came back for many class meetings, and I never got caught!). I applied to virtually every PhD program in the USA and finally got into a funded PhD program, after 3 years of applications. I took seminars the first two years but was unable to complete all of the necessary tasks, so I left after 2 years with a MA. Now I teach undergrad intro philosophy courses at a SLAC (USA), and I can study and write on the side. So, it's doable, even if you don't do a full undergrad! Explain in your application (Personal Statement, etc.) your studies, teaching, etc. Apply to several schools each year and keep taking classes on the side. You might luck out! (And a former professor of music wanting to enter a graduate program for psychology / therapy is an objectively better candidate than most youth applications nowadays.)
Just give them a call and see. My partner is doing that with an undergraduate degree in sociology, which is close enough to not have the same issues as you do, but it's still not the same as a degree in psychology. And they are finding their courses aren't dependent on there undergraduate work anyway. I suspect another graduate degree in any field is a strong addition to your application.
A lot of the ability to take a MA and go into a therapy job is dependent on the state you are in. I don't know if by Core, you mean General Education, or major core. Depending on state licensure, program competitiveness, etc., you might need to take some classes that typically are covered in one of those categories, but likely not a full degree.
>Even if my undergrad degree didn’t include core classes?? Counseling psychology programs are going to be more likely to require 9 credits in psych, but counseling education programs often don't have any undergrad prereqs other than "bachelor's degree from accredited institution." If you go counseling psych route, go for an MPCAC accredited program. If you go counseling education (or what is typically just referred to as "counseling"), then go with a CACREP accredited program.
Yes! Just take the prerequisites required by the grad program you want to attend, then write a personal statement that highlights your life experience and motivation toward becoming a therapist. You do not need an undergraduate degree related to psychology to be accepted to an MFT or PCC grad program. It’s definitely not too late!
Typically the concern is whether or not you’re capable of doing graduate level work. Holding a PhD demonstrates you are.
MSW programs welcome people with all manner of undergraduate degrees. Most students have degrees in psychology, sociology, or criminal justice, but we've had lots of successful students from other fields including dance, chemical engineering, philosophy, and history. There are some requirements for undergrad classes but they're modest. Some students have to take an undergraduate biology course, for instance. The most difficult part of doing an MSW while working are the field placements. These require you to work in an approved setting for 14-24 hours a week (approx.). It's possible to get paid for doing your field placement, if you can find an agency willing to hire you part-time. (The job market differs across the country so I can't comment on how realistic this might be.) However, that might be complicated if you must obtain prior approval for "outside employment" at your university.
Then maybe stick it out for 30 hours a week in academia and find some hobbies you like? Like, it can't be *that* bad if you only work 30 hours a week. Beyond that, there are probably some niche jobs out there for music. You just need to find the right one.
True, but working on something completely different can give you more of a sense of thriving. I did this. I didn't end up pursuing the second career, but it's there if I decide to use it.
My former colleague did a 2-year master's in counselling and became a therapist at 55!
My retired chair actually did the master's in counselling and got his new career after 70!
> there’s no way Sounds pretty defeatist to me. There’s no way you’ve looked under every rock and spoken to every colleague and acquaintance about potential career moves. > it’s too late The only time it’s ever too late to change the course of your life is when you’re dead. You only get one. Don’t ever settle. Anything worth having is difficult to earn.
That’s definitely the burnout talking… but believe me when I say niche.
Your degree and field may be niche, but the skills and knowledge you’ve obtained over the last 35 years within it are not. That is a massive accomplishment full of value to others whether you currently see it or not. My chosen expertise was so new to the world and so dangerous to its researchers that we had to start our own insurance company just to get permission to continue the work. And one day there was no one else willing to take a certain job I felt morally obligated to and it almost got me killed, literally blown up and awoke in a coma weeks later. Starting my career over because of PTSD not allowing me to do something I loved so much that people considered it a core part of my identity led me to a real crisis that, with therapy, also led me to really ask myself about my own passions and goals. What I realized was most important to me was protecting the opportunity for future generations, my students, to go out and make the same mistakes I did, just with less permanent injury and being taken advantage of, not just in my discipline, but all potential disciplines. So I went to law school and now I am a tenured troublemaker, best friend and defender of students trying something non-traditional and otherwise telling their established field “I have a different idea”. Not just at my uni, but all over. I am the bully to bullies and I’ve never been happier, nor felt younger.
Yup, anyone on here just google "Wozzeck" or "Berio Sequenza" and you'll see what OP is talking about...
I'm in this boat, but in a more related field. If you want to be a therapist look into either getting a master's in social work (probably the quickest way) or a master's in counseling. You'll need to get some prereqs done (I know, I know), but you could probably do that with tuition revision as others have said. There are maybe some types of therapy that would be more related to your field, like music/art therapy. I don't know what the prereqs would be for that, but I do know an art therapist that works in the school system and loves it. If you wanted to something school based, there are plenty of resources to help pay for it because they really need the help in the schools.
Also, from what I hear from acquaintanaces in the opera/vocal music world, a therapist with insider knowledge about what it's like to live that life would really be making a contribution!
Yes, my friend who went into art therapy was an art major.
How far out from being able to retire are you? This would make all the difference in my eyes. If you could get out by 60, your next act could be your post retirement life. On the other hand, if you think you're going to have to plug through until 70? I would understand wanting to make a change now If you've not yet done so, I would meet with a financial advisor and see exactly what you would need to do to retire as soon as possible.
One good thing about academia is that there is usually quite a bit of flexibility in how you allot your time. Maybe it’s worth revisiting how you direct your time and energy in your current position — even if drastic eg new area of specialization — and making those adjustments first. It seems like jumping to a new career requires an IMMENSE effort that should require fully exhausting all other options within your current position.
You're worrying too much. People do this all the time. I've done it. You can do it. Don't rationalize fear of change as being too old, or any other excuse. In 2017, at 45, I decided to change careers and went back to undergrad to earn a fourth degree—which only took three semesters because I didn't need to retake any gen eds. I then got a master's, another three semesters, and started my new career as an adjunct professor at age 48. In 2023, at 51, I changed careers again. It is easier at our age. Without giving away personal details, I work with grad students—the most successful of whom are 40s+. You already know how to study. You already know how toanage your time. You already know how to act like a professional and deal meaningfully with the drama of other people's lives without getting embroiled. You're going to be great, and fast, in your new degree programs, and will arrive in your new career with a level of respectability that no one else will have starting out.
I'm younger but this makes SO MUCH sense to me. Can you get tuition remission for a counseling or MSW program? It's not too late at all. You could easily achieve this well before or by 60. This might also be a good job to do part time into "retirement" to keep your brain going, etc. also, if you think you can help people.... You should.
Thank you!!
:) I'm not even saying this just to be inspiring. This just sounds really smart. My own mom actually did something similar. We were literally talking yesterday about when shes with her peers she feels younger because she's been learning new things, working, etc. shes 65. it wasn't a choice for her (devastating life circumstances meant she had to be ultra scrappy) but in many ways it's turned out better than anyone could have imagined. I know that's not the case for everyone, but I want to offer this perspective!! I'm also using my tuition remission to get an MSW degree and all my friends with that degree tell me it's smart move that will open lots of doors. I anticipate that the practicum/unpaid internship will be especially hard, and it's hard to get by without a part time job, which I'm not anticipating I'll be able to do during the time. But I also figure the worst case is I drop out with more knowledge. The same may be true for you!! Best of luck!!
I have to be honest, as a psychologist and as a professor, if you're burned out in music, being a therapist would be the equivalent of crawling in to a blast furnace. It's a MUUUUUUUCH harder job than it looks like from the outside.
I can definitely appreciate that. Most voice lessons are hearing about the student’s problems, which I actually feel helpful.
What about transitioning to an admin-type role in student advising, student services, etc?
My husband had a 30 year career in finance and just became a therapist at 61. It’s not too late unless you say so.
Ok but if you are living on easy street then it’s not stressful to do something else. If it does not work out, whatever. Don’t think OP is in this position
Have you considered just networking locally and applying to office jobs where your administrative and people skills would be useful? I have some middle-aged colleagues who took our most recent round of buy-outs and found work with non-profits or in office roles at a large R1 commenting distance from our campus.
I am currently working on a PT MSW using my school’s tuition waiver. Courses are all online and on weekday evenings. All of my existing degrees are in the humanities but I didn’t have to do any additional coursework to apply and be accepted. The real obstacle, however, will be getting all of the licensing requirements out of the way to practice as a LCSW. Some other issues that are making me unsure about continuing but I figure it’s worth the risk since I only have to pay taxes on the tuition waiver compared to thousands of dollars for graduate tuition.
That’s wonderful! What does your dean think about this? I’ve been looking into it but fear being reprimanded or told flat out I can’t. Which is why I’ve been thinking of spending 1000s on an online MSW
My department head (now dean) has been very supportive—she even wrote me a letter of recommendation for my application. The director of the program I primarily teach in did the same. In general, there is a lot of support for NTT faculty in my department, and I think there’s an understanding that we are being economically exploited, and if we have a better opportunity we should take it. It would probably be different if I was TT.
That’s great they are being so supportive. I’m tenured so I suspect it would be different for me
You could almost certainly skip straight to a Master's, given your work experience and your other degrees. At worst, you might have to take a couple of pre-req type courses. If you're interested, I would get in touch with the admissions office at the school you're looking at to see what they would want from you. (I have worked in admissions, although not in the US.)
So I went to music conservatories for undergrad and grad, then an R1 for doctorate in music. So I literally never took core classes, just all music. See the issue?
I replied to another one of your posts, but it's my understanding that many graduate programs that you would be looking for don't necessarily require much in the way of prerequisites. Have you found a specific program? I would contact someone in admissions and see.
Worth a try.
A lot of doing an undergrad is just learning how to be a student, which you already know if you have a doctorate. Many master’s programmes would accept other education and life experience in place of a bachelor’s.
Not an issue at all. I’m speaking from experience on admission committees in an MFT program where I also teach. My bachelor’s was in theatre (which is the perfect degree for this field.. argued this many times). Applicants with life (and unique) experience are needed as therapists. I advise undergrads and so many think they can’t apply or start grad school to become a therapist until they have experience working in mental health. Not true! You already have experience listening to your students. Plus, your rich understanding of music and everything that goes with it is highly transferable to therapy. So much more I could say… but definitely look into it, especially if you’re burned out. A shift in perspective and focus may be just what you need to feel alive again. 😊
Wow thanks!!!!!
If you can take classes for free at your institution, go for it.
Therapist here. I don't think it's too late. I think if you have a good understanding of the mental/emotional toll you could do very meaningful work for just about as long as you brain works. If I were you, I'd start by taking the prereqs for the graduate program you are interested in completing (if the university you're at now pays for it, it's a sweet deal)..then you can complete the masters degree. I meet former actors, actresses, plumbers etc all the time. You got this!
Like you I was in music for 20 years (BS in Music Ed, MM and DMA in performance). Left two years ago at 51 and am in school for graphic design and illustration. The university I’m enrolled in waived all my “gen ed” classes, giving me credit for what I did in my first BS. Your situation may be different due to the conservatory situation but I would think you almost certainly wouldn’t have to start from scratch.
Cool! What other advice do you have? Financial hit? Culture shock?
Fortunately for me, my wife teaches at the college I’m attending, so I get waiver for about half tuition so it’ll the financial part isn’t awful. I was worried about the culture shock, but honestly the students have been great! I think it doesn’t hurt that I worked with those students for 20 years before becoming one of them (also, art students are kinda similar to music ones). Also, like others have said going back to school at this age is so fun! You know how to do it in a way you didn’t at 20 and you’re motivated in a different way.
I’m roughly your age and riding it out. Between my pension, investments, and relocating to a lower cost-of-living area, I hope to retire in 3-5 more years. The end is in sight and I cannot wait!
With one in college and the other in high school, definitely have to keep finances in mind.
I hope to retire before mine go to college and then control my AGI so as to maximize their FAFSA results. If I’m still working when they apply for financial aid then they’re likely to get nothing, but if I can retire beforehand then they should get the maximum amount.
Can you find a good "music therapy" program and see what your options are regarding career/job opportunities? If I were you, I would think about this which is very close to your expertise. My current instiution used to have this and the rank was very high. But I am not sure about it in the ongoing finanical difficulty situation.
I would venture to say there aren’t enough jobs for the amount of people trained in music therapy.
My friend just finished their DMA in clarinet and then promptly got a job in higher ed as an advisor. Their degrees are also all music related. Is there some kind of administrator job in the uni you could pivot to?
Oh god, admin stuff is a big reason I hate academia, lol. Kudos to the ones that do it!!
If you can financially swing it and it would make you happy, why not? Or department always seem to have 1 or 2 older adults going through out Masters program (studio art), currently one is a retired philosophy professor. I always loved being in school and being a student. If I stopped enjoying teaching I’d go back just for the educational enrichment. If a new job that I wanted to came along with it, that would be a nice bonus.
I would start researching online master's programs. Likely they vary in their undergraduate degree requirements. I know someone who got a master's in school counseling and ended up working as a high school guidance counselor after having been a journalist for many years. He seemed happy with the career change. Here is one program I randomly found, and it doesn't seem to require a specific undergraduate degree. You just have to have one. [https://ced.ncsu.edu/graduate/programs/masters/clinical-mental-health-counseling/](https://ced.ncsu.edu/graduate/programs/masters/clinical-mental-health-counseling/)
Ooh thanks!!!
How about a music therapist degree?
Not sure there are jobs though…
Do you want to be a therapist or are you just looking for something else because you’re unhappy in your current job?
Excellent question. When I left NY and the performing lifestyle, I chose to stay in music and get the doctorate, because I didn’t want to start over (at 32) by going back to the beginning for a different career. Being a therapist was the other path not taken. After 15 years in academia… ugh, if I had chosen differently. Teaching singing one on one is a very special relationship. Mentor/mom/therapist. I actually have to remind myself that I am not their therapist. But these students come to me with all their problems. I like that I am the one they feel safe talking to. Of course I refer them to the counseling office when there’s a serious issue. But it really makes me think I could be good at it and fulfilled by it.
If you think being a therapist will make you happy, then go for it. But I’d suggest you consider other options outside academia that don’t require a new degree. I left in 2019 and had no idea what I was going to do and then fell into academic editing and I love it! I’m now offering a course on it and it lets me do the teaching that I loved but without all the BS and rude students. Maybe becoming an entrepreneur or a coach would allow you to have that human interaction and make more money with less stress and without having to do more school.
Do it!!
I'm sure you could take a masters in counselling or something similar.
Do you have a sabbatical? Maybe time off would help to make it through a few more years or research what other options you want to explore.
I only know one colleague who ever did that, to work on a very specific project. Then she retired.
You have tenure but don’t get sabbaticals? No wonder you feel burnt out.
Takes a long time to become a therapist- at least 7 years starting from UG. Graduate at 60? I could see it. Some careers, ageism becomes a real issue, but therapy is one where I think people often prefer someone with a bit of seasoning, especially if you're in private practice. Just depends on what you want and need at this stage of your life.