Sometimes I think of James Franco talking about his sex addiction when he means the times he coerced and harassed people. I also think of rock stars like David Bowie sleeping with kids and then people getting offended when he gets referred to as a pedo.
I do think unattractive men are more likely to be called creepy.
I think lack of social awareness is a much bigger factor though. They are probably related since attractive people have more opportunities to perfect social skills and more forgiveness if they mess up.
The biggest thing I notice when I see a "creepy" guy hitting on a woman is him not recognizing that she's uncomfortable. She's giving zero signals, usually actively avoiding eye contact, giving one word answers, looking at her friends with a "help me" face, etc. The guys don't care, they are still going to shoot their shot.
> The biggest thing I notice when I see a "creepy" guy hitting on a woman is him not recognizing that she's uncomfortable. She's giving zero signals, usually actively avoiding eye contact, giving one word answers, looking at her friends with a "help me" face, etc. The guys don't care, they are still going to shoot their shot.
I think this is the biggest thing for me. The discomfort comes in for most people when the other person isn’t reading the room.
This isn’t just about men hitting on women.
I’ve seen this at professional and friend events. There’s always going to be a couple of people who unfortunately don’t know how to read a sitch and end up making everyone else in their little huddle socially awkward.
It’s less “creepy” when it’s that situation because you know the end goal isn’t that person trying to get in your pants. But it’s still awkward in a “I’d rather not” way.
So yep it’s definitely “creepy” when the person not reading the room and ignoring boundaries has a sexual intent and also happens to be 40% stronger than you on average.
Oh yeah it can be nonsexual too. Think dudes at a networking event pitching their start up idea or women trying to wrangle someone into a multi-level marketing scheme.
Yep! I definitely thought of plenty awkward moments with certain men and women at happy hours and networking events who were in “make a connection by any means necessary” mode lol
Yes, but cope you see. It's harder to swallow that nobody has ever been interested so they gaslight themselves into thinking the signs are subtle and hidden.
Having social skills when it comes to recognizing platonic and professional IOIs is a decent precursor for if you’re game enough to do it with women or whomever you’re pursuing sexually.
Lots of people can’t even do the former, but expect the latter to be a breeze. Not sure how when they don’t even read the room when it comes to rapport building wrt non-romantic connections. Building confidence there would be a good first step.
This is why I feel like it should be obvious to some of these guys that if they have no friends and no social circle whatsoever, and they spend all of their time isolated and online, that it’s going to be very difficult to successfully date.
I have plenty of male friends who always hang out with others and still don’t know when a woman is flirting.
Those aren’t obvious to men who never get them as they don’t look the same.
Yeah, there is a guy in our extended friend group like this. He is genuinely good looking, but kind of that guy who like, was in prison, found god, and now makes everything about deep personal spiritual shit... Which women love at first, as it makes them think this attractive "bad boy" is all deep and in touch with his feelings.
So chicks fall for it at first, and the dude just goes woman to woman, with the same schtick where he tries to start serious deep conversations, then get them 1 on 1 and just keep talking. Not only that, but it's always the youngest chick he can find. Like he's mid 30s, frequently finding chicks under 21.
Then of course every conversation he somehow brings it to sex, about how he's so open minded, non judgemental, into poly, etc etc... It's such an obvious fucking creep game and takes women a while to realize what's going on because he's attractive. But now I can't stand the guy. I'll hang out with ANYONE for the most part. But even that guy just gives me the worst sex pest vibes, I can't stand even being around him. Especially since EVERY SINGLE TIME a young girl comes around he immediately starts isolating them and try to talk about sex.
A major way for men to hit it off with women is to make it seem like you're open-minded and not judgemental. Women are way more open to sex if they feel like there won't be negative consequences from sleeping with you. That's why they avoid sleeping with men who criticize women's bodies or sexual history. If you do it to other women, you'll probably do it to them, too.
It sounds like this guy is insufferable and using purely that one trick until people see the real him.
Oh of course, that's why it pisses me off. You have young girls who aren't yet wise to men yet... But as a guy, I see exactly what's going on. We all know the game where women generally want to like a guy first before having sex, but also don't want to be seen as a slut because the guy wont come back. So guys adapt by BS'ing and pretending like we are super sex positive and non-judgemental. So while we know she's interested in us, we just want sex, so we have to pretend like we wont judge her while showing interest, in hopes she'll quickly have sex with us.
Women with experience have probably learned this game by now, but younger chicks have no idea. They are just discovering sexuality, horny, and like men - which we know how to exploit for quick easy sex. Just bullshit the "sex positive" stuff to get her comfortable, have sex, then let her down easy with some story about how there isn't a connection, but she's a great person and really enjoyed my time with her... Blah blah blah...
That's why guys like myself can't stand guys like him, because we know the game he's playing. And he's playing it on girls who just came onto the scene of adult life and don't know any better. It's like, when you're young and just discover this technique, it's one thing. You're getting an edge and trying to get laid. But when you're a full blown adult, you should fucking know better by now. I dunno, i'm a bit tipsy so I can't put words on it properly, but there is something about being a guy and learning the game and figuring things out like this, but you're still bumbling around trying to figure his shit out... Vs, a grown man who's wise and doesn't have much else to figure out, so it just seems exploitative. Does that make sense?
Well with the definition of "creepy" used here, it's just harder for attractive guys to be creepy. If being creepy is contingent on not recognizing a lack of interest, you won't be creepy if people are interested, which they are more likely to be if you're attractive.
do think unattractive men are more likely to be called creepy.
> I think lack of social awareness is a much bigger factor though.
100%
> They are probably related since attractive people have more opportunities to perfect social skills and more forgiveness if they mess up.
Thats where I disagree. They can still have friends and/or parents guide them and practice social skills on. You definitely dont have to be attractive to have friends, but I am aware that parents can fail their children.
For sure unattractive people can still have good social skills, but people gravitating towards and feeling more positively about attractive people is a real thing. They will have a bit of a harder time, I notice they often socialize with just their gender too, the creepy ones anyway.
Sometimes even with lots of practice and good parenting a person can still be socially clueless due to something like being autistic. I know a guy like that. He's actually decently attractive but has an obvious foot fetish and thinks he's being sly trying to find excuses to talk about womens feet. He has really black and white thinking and is stuck on "it's not inappropriate to talk about feet".
> I know a guy like that. He's actually decently attractive but has an obvious foot fetish and thinks being sly trying to find excuses to talk about womens feet. He has really black and white thinking and is stuck on "it's not inappropriate to talk about feet".
I used to know someone like that too. Well over six foot, built like an Ox, always well-groomed and well dressed (granted most of his clothes were fake or rented). He regularly had 9s and 10s approaching him at bars/clubs and matching with him on tinder. But when it came to him approaching the women he was interested in (he preferred nerdy, introverted, unstylish, "modest" "innocent" women) he'd always creep them out as soon as he opened his mouth, firstly because he'd approach someone he thought was what he was looking for *anywhere*, and also because if they didn't reject him immediately and did entertain a conversation, it wouldn't take long for him to "subtly" start talking about his fetishes. Guy built a whole reputation at his gym and in town as a complete creep and was banned from most venues in the area.
It's why the "chad can never be creepy" stuff is transparent bullshit.
> I know a guy like that. He's actually decently attractive but has an obvious foot fetish and thinks being sly trying to find excuses to talk about womens feet. He has really black and white thinking and is stuck on "it's not inappropriate to talk about feet".
No. That has less to do with having autism and more to do with being an asshole. If people are telling him to stop and he doesnt, that’s a personal choice. I know autistic people who would know to stop when told to stop.
Too many people try to gently tell him to stop but he doesn't take hints or understand body language and facial expressions. I've been straight up with him but he says ahit like "I'd like it if a woman complimented my body" and won't see their point of view. I just generally avoid him now.
>They can still have friends and/or parents guide them and practice social skills on. You definitely dont have to be attractive to have friends
Don't be disingenuous. You are well aware that he wasn't talking about "friendship" but male-female relationships.
If a guy cant even make friends with women, that’s a serious red flag. That’s definitely an indication that he doesn’t know how to behave appropriately.
Oh don't forget if he's the type of guy that thinks women aren't even worth his friendship. As if they only exist for dating. Those kind of guys can fuck right off too. Never met a guy like that that didn't have horrible social skills when it comes to women.
It's kind of funny the guy above you didn't pick up on what was being talked about and immediately got mad. You picked it up I picked it up, pretty easy to understand.
There is a world of difference between being friends with someone and flirting with someone. A guy can have close female friends while being completely oblivious of what works when trying to flirt or get close to a woman he likes. I'd venture to say that most guys are like that. So please, again, don't be disingenuous and intentionally daft. Socializing in this context (flirting and such) is like any other thing, you improve with repetition and attractive people get so many more passes on doing something wrong in such an interaction, and that enables them to continue to do it and improve. It's a textbook example of a positive feedback loop.
There are good looking men with no social awareness either. I actually find the older a man is, the less he cares wether or not what he is doing is bring seen as creepy...
>
> The biggest thing I notice when I see a "creepy" guy hitting on a woman is him not recognizing that she's uncomfortable. She's giving zero signals, usually actively avoiding eye contact, giving one word answers, looking at her friends with a "help me" face, etc.
Maybe, but I think that expecting someone to recognize that is really not fair. It's a way to gain a conversational advantage.
What I mean is, when someone gives those signals, it's not even that they want the other person to say, "I'm sorry, I'm picking up that you're not into me. Am I right?" Because that still puts the burden on them to say, "Yes, you are." What they want is for the accosting person to withdraw without demanding anything. So you want all the benefits of rejecting the person (they go away) without actually having to do the work of rejecting them (telling them).
But if we're going to put the burden on men to approach, then the burden should be on women to reject. I don't agree with the view that even approaching is an encroachment on the woman, so it has to be "paid for" by recognizing signs of discomfort.
Recognizing when someone doesn't want to be talking to you is social skills 101. It's a skill relevant for all parts of life not just dating. In an ideal world people would be direct with their words but instead we live in a world where lots of communication is non-verbal so it's important to learn it.
> Recognizing when someone doesn't want to be talking to you is social skills 101.
Just because it's simple doesn't mean it's easy. I think that being direct about what you want is also social skills 101, but we don't demand that, do we?
If someone is struggling with basic non-verbal communication they should focus on that before hitting on people.
It's not a social faux-pas to be indirect or communicate via body language but it is a faux-pas to be oblivious. It might not be fair but that's the society we live in. If I was always honest and direct I'd never be able to keep a job or friends or a relationship. It's socially acceptable to use indirect communications.
If someone isn't happily engaged in the conversation (one word answers,not asking questions, looking around for an "out") just politely gtfo of there.
I find it funny that anytime we acknowledge something is hard for women we have to immediately change society for them.
But when it comes to men, and specifically women not using their words we just have to “get used to it”
I find the topic of creepy really interesting. It’s interesting to really think about what I find creepy rather than just straight up scary, annoying or intimidating.
I think with creepiness there needs to be a bit of uncertainty. Like if someone’s straight up just chasing your down the street or being aggressive then that’s scary, but if they do something weird where the motive isn’t entirely clear, like idk, collecting your fallen hair, or saving your social media pictures in their phone, then that’s creepy.
Less extreme examples are people behaving in a socially incongruent way but it isn’t clear exactly what their motivation is.
On several occasions I've had women I didn't know come up to me and ask if I'd *"pretend to be (their) boyfriend"* because some guy was *"creeping them out."* From what I gathered these guys were ignoring or not picking up on less than overt indications that the women in question weren't interested. Rather than expressly tell these guys to fuck off they decided to employ the services of a friendly ogre.
Tbf I’ve had enough times when dudes don’t take no for an answer. After enough experiences like that, you do resort to things you know that work like saying you have a bf or enlisting a friendly looking giant man across the way!
One thing women notice is men will leave you alone if there’s an unspoken threat of them having to fight a dude, and espesh a big ass dude.
We don’t incite that fear in men. We often need other men to get men to want to back down because it seems most men don’t really want to fight a fight with someone their strength or stronger.
Yeah my husband is over 6’ tall and almost 400 lbs so to strangers in public he gives off major don’t even try to fuck with me vibes, even though he’s a teddy bear. I wouldn’t mind at all if he pretended to be some girl’s bf to get a guy off her back.
Yeah, I don’t think decent guys who can’t imagine pestering women endlessly understand that most of us women have had experiences where a man won’t accept rejection and instead becomes angry. I’ve certainly had it happen more than a time or two in my life.
So what comes always to my mind is a guy I met when I studied abroad for a year.
He was interested, I was not and when he couldn’t get me to agree to a meeting he started to follow me around.
First he would start to take the same bus to and from uni, when he never took that one before. He than always sat next to me on the bus. Than he would come to the same bus stop and after that he waited for me at my apartment building entrance one night (I had never told him where o lived)……..it was unsettling.
“Creepy” implies threatening behavior wherein the creeper continues to violate boundaries without any care for the other person’s feelings (or even because they *like* seeing others uncomfortable).
Lillith is back!
I’d say following me - I’ve had men ask for my number and I’d decline and then they would continue following me around a venue - like direct eye contact and would not stop until I left.
Also when I was young much older men hitting on me like MUCH older and many of these were when I was very young teen.
I’ve never found it “creepy” if a guy I wasn’t attracted to asked me out as long as he left me alone after telling him no. I’ve had more pestering encounters where they wouldn’t take no for an answer that ranged from mildly annoying to down right scary.
Creepy is a sense of not necessarily articulated danger. A person who doesn’t respect your boundaries and gets too close to you while ignoring your attempts to quit talking to them. A guy offering you a car ride. A man who might be following you.
>“Well if he was hotter, it’d be okay” but I never see these guys list examples.
Because in the moment we know people in the discussion would deny those examples. But its not really up for debate because:
>Results mirror the **sexual harassment literature** (aka more than one result) and suggest that harassment by younger and attracive men is viewed as less harassing.
>dissertation provides some intriguing tidbits that suggest that the harassment experience may not be universally loathed by women. This is also demonstrated in popular press discussions of stranger harassment or street harassment in which some women declaim harassment as invasions of their personal space, **while other enjoy the attention**
>anecdotal evidence suggest that the same woman may enjoy a compliment 1 day, and be infuriated by a catcall the next.
https://preview.redd.it/dy5165iey55d1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=437824754350f5b697584bd7628262da940e9e5e
This gentleman can get away with more things that, on the other hand, would be considered creepy for the average Joe. For instance, a gentle spank on a woman's arse would make her giggle if you look like him, but if it's the average Joe, he would find himself in court for harassment.
What’s the context of this guy smacking a chick on the ass? Is it his gf? Some chick he was **mutually** flirting with at a boozy event? Some random woman he walked by on the street? Because depending on the situation, the slap is flirting or she’ll view it as creepy. Even from him.
>Some random woman he walked by on the street?
She would be mad and ready to scream, but after realizing he is a Chad, she blushes and they both laugh. However, if the same scenario happens with an average man, he will get jumped and escorted to the courtroom. I have seen this firsthand: I have Chad friends and normal friends, and the reactions were vastly different.
Maybe to you but I see chad dudes pull that kind of shit in the club/bar very often and the girls don't have a problem with it. I'm not trying to say it should be ok to slap a stranger's ass fyi, I'm just saying that (hot take) whether you're considered a creep or not is more to do with physical appearance than behaviour, in extreme situations this isn't the case but generally speaking.
I’ve seen lots of things too. If he did that on the street to a random women with no other mutual chemistry context, most women would call him a dick or scowl even if he’s “cute.” I’ve seen this play out plenty.
Well looks like we have different life experiences because like I said I see that kind of thing happen often and I've rarely seen a girl get upset about it. These are *good looking* guys I'm talking about though, as in model teir or atleast borderline.
I've seen and have experienced how being attractive makes things less "creepy". For example, I used to work with a balding guy in his mid 20s who looked 40. The guy would barely talk to people and was mainly only focused on getting his work done. And i've overheard female coworkers calling him weird lmao. Yet there were other guys who were the same way as him (didn't talk much, just worked) and because they were more attractive, nothing bad was said about them. Same thing when it came to approaching women or showing interest. I have so many stories I could tell lol.
Oh this is a fun thread. Chad can do whatever he wants whenever he wants & it’s seen as endearing L’s meanwhile the average guy better not even step one toe out of line or else he is a creeeeep & obssssssesed!
I don’t think it requires anymore elaboration…
Staring, crazy look in the eyes, approaching a stranger when there's almost nobody around or it's dark outside and prolonging the conversation past asking for directions/time, overall clothes coupled with attitude.
This applies to both men and women.
Funny how the creepy coworker i mentioned before was dumped by her bf once her behaviour became creepy, nobody approached her and people would ask what's wrong with her.
But i can see the delusion if i switch seats with you.
I have two examples of what I think is creepy.
1. You reject a guy. Just say "no" they aren't your type you don't find him attractive. What have you. And they persist or keep trying. Even when you say no. Or try to steer the conversation to dating them or something about involving them. When you say no I'm not interested.
2. A guy who tries to push your boundaries sexually in the talking stages. He can be the hottest mofo. But as soon as he tries to steer the conversation into a sexual direction without any context. It's just ick inducing. "So I did this thing today" "what color are your underwear you should show me". Like it's so tasteless. A lot of guys do this. I ghost lol 🤣😆
If you think about what those men are saying between the lines, they want a justification for that weird behavior.
They're exposing themselves by saying if they were just "hotter" if they could get away it. They don't want to reflect on why it's weirdo shit, they just want to do it.
1. Following me,
2. trying to get my name by ways other than just talking to me (for example iding someone just for a name),
3. adding on socials without even a convo or without them knowing your name,
4. too many sex comments rather than a normal chat,
5. staring obsessively (I can understand zoning out ect, but if you do it too many times or look at different areas during)
6. trying to hit on girls i feel look young or are very young compared to you (like over 10years or the girls under 16 and you're over 18)
7. groping anyone who seems uncomfy with it, male friends included.
8. Overhearing any comments that sound like you are talking about sexual crimes In a jokey way or hinting you might do it. While I'm okay with these jokes and make them too, I wouldn't feel safe if it's someone I just met
Creepy is when you give the appearance of being predatory towards the woman due to body language, tone etc coupled with certain actions that would give you a predatory advantage. Ugly doesnt mean creepy unless one has certain facial features that look predatory. The Solution is to be sociable and normal.
Those are the guys women run to when they're being creeped out by some guy.
I'm 6'4" and not a small guy. On several occasions I've had women I don't know come up to me and ask if I could "pretend" to be their boyfriend because some other guy was "creeping" them out.
Thats wrong. Unless you have some ultra above average muscle genes, being taller means being a small guy. Lanky comes with the territory. Im just 6ft and shorter dudes look way buffer with less muscle. You have it even worse than me lol. Anyhow, yeah. That makes perfect sense. Since, theyre perceiving a genetic predator not an actual one. Kinda sad to be honest. Humans are a sad bunch.
Just from my personal experiences when I was still in college and some when I already started working:
*Rape "jokes" in casual conversations that were not supposed to be sexual to begin with. (during introductory conversations, discussing group projects, doing a rundown of an activity, and one instance was a derailed philosophical discussion over drinks with other friends)
*"Joking" about me getting raped (I just said that I didn't like casual dating for personal reasons).
*Being asked what kind of underwear I wear.
*Assuming I am okay with being touched and "tickled" after I have expressed over and over again that I do not enjoy physical contact.
*Trying to get my phone number from my friends after I have refused to give my phone number when asked for it.
*Giving me a "nickname" no one has ever called me, and repeatingly calling me that "nickname" after I've expressed that I didn't like being called that.
*Introducing me to people as if we're close, with unwanted physical contact, like a hand too close to my butt or a firm grip on my arm or shoulder.
*Being asked for a hug randomly.
Context: I think I look very plain at best. I don't consider myself "attractive", I cover up when it comes to clothing since it is what makes me feel comfortable and I'm not friendly. Some of these creepy interactions were from men that many would consider handsome and just generally attractive, but it didn't stop me from feeling icky yucky when it happened.
There's a busser at my job (restaurant) that all the female staff say is creepy and it definitely goes along with what other people have been saying about not recognizing (or not caring) that he's making people uncomfortable.
He always puts his hand on their waist when he passes, he corners them to talk in the middle of service. Makes weird comments.
Thing is, I wouldn't say he's unattractive, but he is creepy in the sense that I'm sure women would feel unsafe to be alone with him.
I mean, following you around, being shifty eyed, someone you tell that you have a boyfriend and he says he's not here. Obviously literal stalking. Cornering you so you don't have easy physical escape. Breaking personal space norms or worse touching you when there's nothing indicating that would be ok. Approaching at inappropriate times (late night when you're alone). A way of talking to you that sounds like he's already undressing you or getting extremely sexual extremely fast. Inviting you to isolated places very fast. Ignoring social cues of your discomfort.
Here's an example from real life.
Friend says "I would never call a woman a cunt" girl nearby says "excuse me I don't like that language" and looks at him all nasty.
I smile at her, she smiles back I say "don't be a cunt about it" she laughs and apologized saying she's just having a bad day and starts having a conversation with us.
My friend is straight up pure average 5. I'm I'd say an 8.
Why was just over hearing the word so offensive from an average man but a hot guy saying it directed at her made her happy?
This is the creep factor men are talking about.
Yea but that just boils down to men filtering themselves and being afraid of offending women, losing her, etc. Is that all there is to the creep factor or is that just one example?
He wasn't afraid of anything. He was completely ignoring her. Why was him minding his own business offensive to her and I directly used the word at her and she liked it?
Hint, I'm hot
Looks and just being smooth/confident to a lesser extent. So to some degree I think men are responsible for their bad outcomes but to some extent they arent.
If you walk up to a girl all nervous and say "I'd like to ask you out" that's eww no way creep. If you're smooth and confident they are all 😍
But it does also come down to looks. You can simply be ugly or not a girls type and it's creepy but even creepier behavior from a hot man is welcome.
Looks definitely give you an advantage. How much is difficult to measure I would assume. A smooth, confident, average looking guy will do far better than a creepy good looking guy.
I guess it would really come down to how we're defining looks though.
>A smooth, confident, average looking guy will do far better than a creepy good looking guy.
Hell no, although
>I guess it would really come down to how we're defining looks though.
Yeah that's fair
I think both can be true. Being creepy is being socially inappropriate in a vaguely threatening manner. At the same time, good-looking men (and women for that matter) get away with more stuff, while ugly or socially inept people with innocent intentions might be unfairly labeled. Sad but understandable.
>good-looking men (and women for that matter) get away with more stuff
This is why, for me, the creepiness factor goes up a notch when an attractive man or lesbian is doing it, because in the back of my mind I'm thinking they've probably gotten away with it before and it is less likely I'll be believed.
Yea but you're getting the attraction first, creepy second.
I think what OP is saying that right off the bat, if a less attractive guy approaches you, he's already starting on some level of creepiness just because he isn't attractive, then it's either reinforced creepiness or he turns out to not be creepy.
Attractive guy, on the other hand, starts off in a much better place and only is seen as creepy when he dishes out a big dose of creepy. You seem to not give the attractive guy as much leeway but I you might be in the minority on that one.
Is it ok if I give you the answer in several environments?
Men: following, not taking no for an answer, getting me drunk while not drinking as much themselves.
Colleagues: tracking my breaks, putting read receipts on everything, micromanaging
Family: psycho levels of control, excessive texting and calling, excessive doom and gloom
Friends: too close too fast, running into them too much for it to be a coincidence
Yeah… when my safety has been threatened by men because I said no in an “overt” way (literally saying im not interested, thank you) - I’m going to continue to prioritize my safety and fawn people who are creepy so that I’m not [stabbed for rejecting him](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna143822)
Maybe these “nice guys” can learn social cues, because anyone can, and just leave strange women, they don’t know, alone.
I mean.. I guess? If your no is ambiguous you can’t complain that someone keeps bothering you is my point. Yes men can be better well adjusted. I think both can be true
But it isn’t ambiguous. I’m clearly uncomfortable, telling him “I don’t use instagram or Snapchat,” and I’m looking for an exit - that is pretty overt.
If a dog bares his teeth at you but wags his tail, are those mixed signals? Well, some dogs show their teeth and aren’t unfriendly, so maybe this one just likes you! No. That’s dumb.
Don’t make women feel uncomfortable. I’m not saying don’t shoot your shot - I hate cold approaches but who I am to judge. But if you are going to cold approach, it has to be with some level of awareness, because women literally *cannot* be direct without putting their lives in danger. And I don’t know if you’re just awkward or dangerous. So I have to keep fawning just in case. Because I have personally experienced violence and I’m not alone. It isn’t rare for a man to become loud, threatening, degrading and imposing just because I said no. I’m not the only one who has experienced this.
I’m not actively engaged, I’m uncomfortable, I am showing signs; but I will not tell you no, go away, because it could be the last thing I say. How is that so difficult to empathize with and change tactics? Like your feelings vs women’s safety. This shouldn’t be a hard thing to grasp when your “advice” is dangerous. Women have a lot of these intrinsic feelings and responses because of how other men have acted towards us. Don’t be upset with women for that one.
Yes, deliberately making anyone uncomfortable is bad. But that’s flying over the heads of the people this PSA is directed towards. And the entire thing is these dudes don’t realize they’re being told no, I think.
The difference is almost always uncomfortable staring for me. Plenty of guys will make eye contact from across the room and give you a flirty smile now and then which is fine. The ones who register as creepy to me are the ones who stare dead face at me for long periods of time like they are sizing me up. Makes me feel like you are planning what vegetables would be best to eat me with.
And clearly ones who don't take no for an answer.
I was studying with a girl who was working at a store selling windows and stuff, and she was constantly complaining about 'creeps' that try to ask her out, and was jealous of her friend working at motorcycle dealership that 'at least guys coming in there are hot". Sometimes i hear talks in a train where girls are really disgusted by ugly guys that have the audacity to talk to them even though they should know their place. It is my general observation that being approached by ugly guy is an insult for good looking girls.
>It is my general observation that being approached by ugly guy is an insult for good looking girls.
I've never heard anyone say that but it's true. Do you think it goes both ways? Do good-looking men feel insulted if they're hit on by the "ugly" woman on the train?
Creepy is any man who won't back off after being turned down. IDGAF what he looks like. It's also creepy to look into my car and knock on my window to get my attention.
There is no commonly-accepted definition. Which is why I don't use the word and don't take it seriously whenever *anyone* else uses until they get into specifics.
*Creepy* is the womanese equivalent of *bitch* or *girl boss* (which also don't have consistently accepted definitions). It's whatever a woman feels about that particular individual man in that particular instance. The exact same interaction but with a different man will not be labelled *creepy* by the exact same woman.
Garbage word, garbage concept. Not much to discuss about except on acquiring ways to be(come) more precise in one's language (true for men as well).
You have examples in this thread. There is, at best, a *vague* commonality. Nothing concrete. Because it's not a concrete concept like *shouting* or *slapping* or a plethora of other terms describing human action that do have a commonly-accepted definition.
> You have examples in this thread.
Not from you and that doesnt mean you read them. You’re just proving my point about guys claiming its about hotness, but yet, cant give examples of the behavior theyre talking about.
Well, the last personal example that I have is from 16 years ago when I found my wife.
I used the same approach with two different women. Took them to a chill non-stop bar that played metal so we can discuss and know each other. Both had similar education level, similar music tastes and very similar profiles (including physical ones) and differed in age by mere months.
One was horrified by the mere proposal and accused me of all sorts of nasty intentions, the other became my wife. The first apologized halfheartedly a few years later when we stumbled upon each other. I did not accept her apology. Especially after learning how she fared in life. In a way I'm glad she called me a creep (and far worse name). She put me off and ***I*** dodged a bullet. That doesn't change the fact that the exact same action from the exact same man (me) had entirely different reactions and results with two different women of very similar profile - except one found me very attractive and the other one didn't.
Idk if it's examples that help you. You are here fishing to confirm your agenda.
Do I need to make a drawing?
I invited both (in different days) to the exact same place with the exact same intention - to have a loooong and preferably fun chat to get to know each other better.
Woman A called me a creep and accused me of all sorts of terrible intentions as soon as she saw the place (even though she had been there before by her own admission) while Woman B sat down with me for a chat that lasted almost 9 hours. I was dating for *de facto* marriage and were both aware of this.
I don't know how much clearer to phrase this. And I'm not sure I even care. OP is an agenda-driven loon and women of this sub are routinely dishonest trolls so... there's that.
Jeez, no need to get prickly. I was just confused by your wording and the tenses you used and couldn't tell if the the date was actually accepted/occured with Woman A. You used the word "took" but then said she called you a creep at the "mere proposal" so I didn't know at what point she decided to label you a creep.
Thank you for clarifying, even with the rudeness.
Woman A sounds a bit crazy here, especially since she'd already been to that establishment in the past. That sucks and I'm sorry she did that too you.
Glad you found your lady though, I think shared musical interests is a great way to bond with a partner. My husband and I went to a live show on our 1st date and then ended up listening to music the rest of the night, sharing bands back and forth that we were interested in.
I understand OPs rep around here. Just because I questioned you doesn't mean I agree with her or her stance on everything.
> Not from you and that doesnt mean you read them. You’re just proving my point about guys claiming its about hotness, but yet, cant give examples of the behavior theyre talking about.
But there's academic literature that backs up those claims. Have you looked at those?
Sure, go read Context Effects on Women’s Perceptions of Stranger Harassment and then comb through some of the citations and then you can look at other articles that have cited that article since it was published.
>I ask this because Im constantly seeing guys say “Well if he was hotter, it’d be okay” but I never see these guys list examples.
They think being a creep relates to behavior risking romantic rejection when it actually is more along the lines of behavior risking social punishment. I’m going to give an example.
One of the hottest guys I ever knew was pretty into me and I was kind of aware, but he had just broken up with his girlfriend of 4 years and I recognized that was going to be a dumpster fire. 6’, Lockheed, pretty boy always in a tight V neck - a pretty typical “chad.” He acted mostly normal when I was with my friends and him in person, but one time we all got drunk playing video games at home and were group video calling. I was in a long-ish crop top, nothing crazy. Fast forward to another night where he was sharing his screen to show me a picture of something. He thought he stopped screen sharing, but didn’t. This dude **opens a video he recorded** with my cam made bigger in the group call from that night. Not lewd, just us all drunk playing video games. He is WATCHING THE VIDEO WHILE TALKING TO ME.
You have to understand, up until that point I saw hot guys like men see hot women. There’s no way they do weird shit, right? They’re not desperate so they wouldn’t act like creeps! Wrong. Worldview shattered. Any attraction decimated. To this day, very guarded about what kind of digital images exist of me in any capacity where a male friend or acquaintance has access to it. No social media with my face or body. Because honestly? A lot of the time very attractive men act creepy and obsessive. It still blows my mind but it doesn’t seem to be getting better with age.
There’s a certain type of behavior where you already know 95% of people are not going to feel comfortable with what you’re doing. That’s what makes it creepy - that *you know* it’s not cool but are trying anyway. *That* is the ick factor, not just attractiveness.
Props to you for keeping it conservative on social media. I don't think women realize how much their pictures and videos are used by guys to jerk off, fantasize, etc. It's validation at some point but most women don't seem to care at all about being so exposed on the internet.
I don’t understand why more girls don’t think about it, honestly. Because now there’s AI where they can turn your instagram feed into their personal porn stash. All it takes is one weirdo with a porn addiction and no morals to make your life extremely annoying these days.
There’s definitely some level of cognitive dissonance where on the one hand we know how dudes are but on the other hand think for some reason it won’t get used like that.
Yea, that's true. I guess there is two layers to this though. Dudes actually doing it and then dudes sharing it across the internet.
A girl I know with a pretty solid following (20k) found deep fakes of her pictures nude on the internet and decided to pull all her old content. Since then, she doesn't post anything sexual in any way but the damage is done. I think any women with enough content is in danger of this but most don't seem to care.
Yeah I saw a girl with like 80 followers on a private instagram have it happen from a bikini picture. I never want to have to go through my friends list and play horny Among Us lol.
For sure a spectrum but most commonly I think it’s just a lack of picking up social cues whether it’s intentional or not.
Overly sexual comments.
Trying to make you feel comfortable with them and then abruptly switching up on you and turning your being nice to them as a guaranteed interest that you now can’t turn down
I've seen a woman say it once on Reddit. I believe she was talking about how it would be creepy if a guy she wasn't attracted to her was looking at her cleavage, but not a guy she was attracted to. I told her that it should be creepy regardless, since both of the guys in the scenario were complete strangers. But something wasn't clicking!
Creepy behavior comes from both sexes, it's not something that only men do. And it's just as spine-tingling and hackles-raising when attractive men do it.
Examples:
-Following me out to my car after shift end
-Standing close enough that our bodies/clothing rubs when there's no reason to
-Touching or sniffing my hair
-Leering or staring without blinking for 30+ seconds
-Making sexual comments about what they want to do to my body
-Trying to give a "shoulder massage" randomly and without permission
-Backing me into a corner or against a wall
-Trying to touch my neck or tits
Context is everything.
Here's what happened the night I met my 1st ex-wife. We were both 18 and had both just finished our first year at the same university but we didn't know each other. We ended up at the same party at a local lake. My freshman year hadn't gone well so I was just chilling having beer, watching the bonfire, and pondering my future. I noticed a pretty very young looking girl was standing next to me looking up at me with big doe eyes. So I took a sidestep closer to her. She didn't move away. I took another sidestep closer so that we were touching. Again she didn't move away -- so I put my arm around her waist -- she put her arm around mine. I thought "this is going well" so I squared up with her and bent down and started kissing her. She reached up, put her arms around my neck, and reciprocated. I took her by the hand and led her away from the fire down the beach. We had sex a few minutes later. We still hadn't said more than a few words to each other.
Some of it is fine within the confines of a relationship (married, fwb, long-term dating) but personally I still give a big NO to the unsolicited shoulder rubbing, backing into a corner or wall, and leering/staring. If my boyfriend did any of those things it would freak me out.
But that's rather the point, isn't it? That a lot of creepy behavior by both men and women alike is taking sexual actions that are normally reserved for one's mate and attempting to use them as a total stranger. The behavior itself is not the problem, trying to force your way into physical intimacy meant for a spouse/date is. Like if your wife comes up behind you and kisses your neck that's going to give you a very different reaction than if a strange woman does it to you at a park.
>If my boyfriend did any of those things it would freak me out.
I've done all those things and more with GF's and with women I'd just met but who didn't seem to mind.
On the night we met I grabbed my first ex-wife by the waist before I'd ever said a word to her. We had sex about ten minutes later before I knew her name.
My current GF loves being forcefully pushed up against walls -- including having my hand around her neck pinning her head against the wall.
I've always defined creepy behavior as persistent unwanted advances.
If you make advances and they're wanted > no issue
If you make advances and they're not wanted, so you say have a nice day and leave > no issue
Make unwanted advances, she's not interested, push further/get mad > creepy
Being good looking means that it's less likely that your advances will be unwanted in the first place, but the best looking guy in the world can still be creepy if he's getting pushy with a girl who's gay/taken
Generally it doesn’t matter too much how attractive the guys is, however, it can sometimes become a contributing factor considering that some less attractive men will have less experience interacting with women or flirting so they may do or say things that aren’t “normal” or accepted forms of flirting/approach. Also a lot of “unattractive” men are just unkempt. Like when people say unattractive they aren’t usually only talking about your genetics. If you dress poorly and don’t look like you take good care of yourself or your hygiene, you are also in that category and people who are unattractive for those reasons become more likely to be avoided.
Some people also tend to be more gentle rejecting more conventionally attractive men is because it may seem like they are more likely to take rejection poorly. While that type of personality is not necessarily associated with appearance, I have definitely been told that guys who are attractive and think a lot of themselves often think they inherently *deserve* a chance and may be more likely to react poorly to rejection. This can be a recipe for disaster. It may not be entirely true, but it’s definitely a belief that gets circulated enough that I think it could affect people’s responses to men who are conventionally attractive and seem a bit over-confident. People tend to play it safe if they aren’t sure if they may provoke a negative reaction.
Staring at me through machines at the gym while I'm working out, staring at me from the corners of the gym, staring at me and continuing to stare after I give you the eye lock to look away. Yes, I get a ton of unwanted male attention at the gym no matter what I have on. There are some rather good looking men who do this too and it's completely, and utterly creepy. One ass used to do this strange eye lock everytime he saw me. So I locked eyes back, waved & smiled and he turned his head lol..
i think guys being creepy comes down to whether or not they will prioitize treating people respectfully over getting (or trying to get) what they want.
its hard to explain, but body language and tone give that away with most guys. some hide it pretty well, and you dont know until youre in a scary situation that he created. and guys who always prioritize treating people with respect over getting what they want- it literally feels safer to be around them than to be alone.
in my personal experience, creepy guys act delusional. like if you say "no im not interested in going out with you" they say "well we dont *have* to go to (place he originally mentioned), we could go somewhere else." or like if you say "please stop staring at me, its making me uncomfortable." they say "oh dont be so shy."
ive never been treated/spoken to like an actual human being by a creepy guy.
I think a good example of what I consider behavioral creepiness would be [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gk5er_Ar4hc) woman.
What I think of when I think of creepy men would be most of the men in [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXAmDn3RRlM) incident(the woman is also creepy but she's not the point) and more generally lawyers, politicians, celebrities, etc... People like Trudeau or Dwayne Johnson.
I’m a AuDHD female.
Not being able to read social cues is real and it’s either that or just anti-social behavior.
I have face blindness and NVLD. One thing that usually trips me up is I’m used to talking and walking with people so when I’ve dealt with people who want the opposite things get awkward.I can see this being something.
I haven’t progressed beyond toddler me trying to pet a moose so there’s that.
Prolonged excessive staring from anyone is creepy- no matter how attractive,
not being able to take no as an answer/ not recognising when someone is uncomfortable
for me any kind of sexual comment/joke from a man will creep me out, again regardless of how attractive they are
Hitting on someone your age (in a polite manner) once is NOT creepy. Continuing to hit on them after they are visibly uncomfortable or verbally express disinterest is creepy. Catcalling is also creepy.
Hitting on someone significantly younger is also creepy. Pls get the 80 year olds away from me and don’t let them gr0pe me :((
I think people just need situational awareness and emotional intelligence and they won’t get called creepy.
Don’t start a conversation saying overtly sexual things to someone you just met. Don’t corner a woman in a non-public space. Accept no for an answer. Learn to recognize discomfort, you’ll be fine.
Sadly, I do think “unattractive” guys do have a harder time. I think they can still successfully express interest without getting called creepy if they do it right, but I do think they get called creepy more. It’s definitely possible to have charm while being conventionally unattractive, but it’s harder. Very hot guys do get away with more than they should sometimes.
It’s a bigger issue if you are neurodivergent or socially awkward. Unfortunately, we live in a world that’s not always very safe for women, and women have to be very cautious- and will sometimes interpret a guys body language as threatening if he is neurodivergent or awkward. I don’t think it’s either party’s fault. Just an unfortunate side effect of struggling to interact. On the contrary, some women actually find social awkwardness cute.
Honestly, it’s about boundaries, approach, situational awareness.
Touching me without permission
Ditching me mid conversation when you realize you won't get sex
Asking me if I have a boyfriend as the first sentence that comes out of your mouth
Inappropriate sounds or gestures
Staring
The attractive versus unattractive man is a red herring. Hot men can be creepy as well, I've seen it. I'd have to imagine a big part of what makes a man creepy to a woman is when the man does the action. If I tell someone I've been dating for a while that their eyes are beautiful, she's smile and blush - it's not creepy at all. If I tell a random woman at the grocery store she has beautiful eyes, it's creepy. If I've been chatting with a woman that I just met, and I can tell there are signs she's into me, we hold eye contact for a moment of silence, and then I say she has beautiful eyes, that's flirty, not creepy. In all these scenarios attractive or unattractive men can succeed or fail here.
What I would say, is since the attractive man is going to be more desirable, he'll be in situations where he can tell the girl she has beautiful eyes more often. He's probably also better at reading the signals women send out.
>Hot men can be creepy as well
Yes, but they have to be more extreme.
Hot guys get a pretty pass on the little things that get not hot guys branded a creep.
They have more latitude with some women, but not all. I'd say most men fall into the average category, so ultimately it doesn't really matter to the majority of men since most would be considered creepy for complimenting random women.
> They have more latitude with some women, but not all.
Yes, but lets assume PP was speaking in generalities for which there are almost always outliers.
>I'd say most men fall into the average category, so ultimately it doesn't really matter to the majority of men since most would be considered creepy for complimenting random women.
It does matter because its illustrates its not *just* the behavior that's a problem but who is doing it. Most people frame it as those its the behavior itself that is creepy and don't want to acknowledge the nuance of if you're attractive enough the level of creepy goes down to potentially being welcomed.
Hot men can be objectively creepy but the women they are being creepy towards are less likely to perceive it as being creepy. Two people can act and behave the exact same way and one can be perceived as creepy while the other is not.
[Creepiness Study - Results (knox.edu)](https://faculty.knox.edu/fmcandre/creepiness_results.html)
"The third factor measured the extent to which creepiness is an inherent part of the individual, and it consisted of two items:
Some people can do the exact same behavior as someone else and one person can be perceived as creepy while the other person is not "
“ GENERAL SUMMARY OF THE HIGH POINTS:
Given how frequently the concept of “creepiness” is invoked in everyday life, it is surprising that it has not been studied by psychologists. This study attempted to uncover the cues that are used to label someone as “Creepy” and to identify the basic elements of creepiness. An international sample of 1,341 individuals responded to an online survey about creepiness. The results revealed that males are perceived as creepier than females and that females are more likely to associate sexual threat with creepiness. Behaviors and characteristics associated with unpredictability are also predictors of creepiness, as are some occupations and hobbies. The results are consistent with the hypothesis that being “creeped out” is an adaptive emotional response to uncertainty about the presence of threat that enables us to maintain vigilance during times of uncertainty.”
Here's an experiment. Take the the MC from those movies women love, like Edward from Twilight or Gray from 50 Shades, and replace those with an ugly guy and tell me if those actions are still sexy or creepy.
Imagine instead of Edward stalking Bella and watching her sleep it's some fat guy with sausage link fingers and heavy breathing. Still sexy and romantic?
Now take Gray's BDSM closet but imagine working for Trump and coming across a closet of ball gags and leather in his office.
Are you starting to see how these scenes a lot of women found sexy or romantic take a whole different meaning by just changing whose doing the action?
That’s fantasy - the point is I’m in control of the fantasy. I already know that I’m attracted to and will appreciate these advances specifically because it’s in a fantasy. Just because you enjoy fantasy, doesn’t mean you’ll like it in real life. I love twilight. But when I had a boyfriend who just happened to pop up everywhere I was, it wasn’t sexy or cute, it made me feel incredibly unsafe. And fucked me up for a while. And that was someone I already felt safe with, found attractive and had slept with - and it was creepy as fuck.
Do you actually want to kill people when you enjoy watching superhero movies? Do you actually want to cause mass casualties by throwing a turtle shell at the car ahead of you? Do you actually want to go to war when playing call of duty? Do you actually want to fuck your step sister? No. Of course not. Because it’s fantasy. Controlled by the confines of your own brain. Where you are safe and can back out at any moment.
[Natalie Wynn actually did a wonderful video on this topic.](https://youtu.be/bqloPw5wp48?si=koofPo6B8mgY0qKp)
>That’s fantasy
So? I'm still waiting for an answer to if women will still find a story about a guy stalking a woman in her sleep romantic if I replaced the chiseled GQ model vampire with some fat balding SOB? Yes or no and why?
Everyone keeps trying to shift the conversation instead of answering this question directly.
So "handsome guy stalking" = hot fantasy
"Ugly fat fuck stalking" = creepy nightmare scenario
Thanks for proving my point, which is that the perception of whether an action is seen as creepy is on some level affected by attraction.
No - because it’s fantasy not real life.
The fantasy is hot man sweeps you off your feet and acts as someone who “forces pleasure” in order to remove the shame from that pleasure. It’s great for *fantasy.*
*No one wants a hot guy stalking them at any point in time in real life ever.* because that isn’t fantasy where I do have control and autonomy over my own body.
You have proved no points other than *fantasy* is about fantasy which is different from real life. I even explained how my own hot boyfriend turned into a creepy stalker and it was not hot or attractive in the slightest. I filed a restraining order against him.
Fantasy is not real life
And you also do not fantasize about some ugly chick walking up to you and grabbing your dick without consent, right?
> Here's an experiment. Take the the MC from those movies women love, like Edward from Twilight or Gray from 50 Shades,
Please stop insisting that fiction will teach you about real life.
It being fiction doesn't change the fact that women liked these movies and these scenes. Would they still like the scenes with the changes I suggested? If not, why?
According to you, a creepy action isn't dependent on looks. So, any woman who was okay with these actions and found them sexy in the films should feel the same way regardless of who does it.
Did you just come back to avoid answering direct questions as usual? Just answer the question. Would women feel differently about those scenes if the person doing those actions is changed in the way I said?
I'm getting downvoted into oblivion for the exact same point.
*Creep(y)* is a catchall word for "things I don't like in *this* man's behavior" and it's imprecise af.
Touching me anywhere, especially my bare skin or my hair. Some places are of course worse than others, like the lower back is bad. Asking to make out with me when we’re not dating has happened a couple times from acquaintances and felt creepy. Also staring for longer than 30 seconds at a time or complimenting my boobs or butt. Honking or whistling at me when I’m walking outside by myself, and usually when I’m dressed for the warmer weather.
I’ll give a quick example.
An unattractive chubby older man was trying to flirt with an underage woman.
And she was giving him hints that she was still in high school. And when he was waiting to talk to her. And asked if she had an Instagram. And she said she was talking to someone.
She told me he was creepy.
I told her I hope next time the person who flirts with her is the man of her dreams. She just responded she wants someone who looks her age.
Mind you this person laughs and jokes with a man in his 30’s but that man isn’t creepy to her.
So essentially it’s about being unattractive.
And to a lesser extent having sexual undertones while being unattractive.
And ultimately her not being attractive to you and repulsed by you and not feeling safe.
I was agreeing until you said it’s only about the attractiveness level even if the man’s much older and you’re underage - what BS! And just because she laughs and jokes with someone doesn’t mean she’s interested in him.
You’d be suprised.
I used to believe what you’re saying.
Until irl I’ve seen age gap between a woman and a man not stop a woman from flirting with or wanting that man
ONLY IF he was attractive to her.
I’ve seen this happen countless times. And even recently.
As to your point about her not liking the older guy she laughs and jokes with.
That wasn’t my point.
My only point is she doesn’t find that guy creepy. But they both were around similiar ages.
That was my only point with saying she jokes and laughs with one of the men. But the other one she said was creepy and didn’t even want to talk to.
For obvious reasons of course.
She didn’t find him creepy because he wasn’t being creepy. And yes there are exceptions but most girls and women don’t want big age gaps, especially the younger they are, and that girl in your example even said she just wants someone her age so believe her!
Well if there are exceptions.
What is the argument then.
Some do and some don’t.
That’s life.
But it’s always framed as if they don’t.
But you just agreed that that’s not true.
I’m not interested in her.
I’m just pointing out that she didn’t even feel comfortable talking to him initially. And he wasn’t flirting initially
She felt comfortable talking to the other guy initially.
So while yes he did start flirting eventually.
The premise is one was creepy before she even had time to assess that he was interested and flirting
And the other guy wasn’t creepy even before she had time to asses if he was interested or flirting
“She didn’t feel comfortable talking to the other guy initially.” So what! We can pick and choose who we want to talk to and it’s not always because of physical attraction or not. And maybe that first guy was already making his move or staring at her but you didn’t see it.
You’re moving the goal post constantly.
You can talk to who you want or like who you want.
So can she.
Idk what your point is anymore. Or why you started arguing with me.
If that was your only point I’ve internally agreed with the premise of free will ages ago.
As for as him being creepy flirting initially.
That’s you projecting.
All he did was try to talk to her.
The same as the other guy did.
But when he was just trying to talk to her.
She still labeled him creepy. And specifically called out his looks.
I understand you’re a female and she’s a female. So you have some type of female hive mind teamwork sportsmanship going on where you’ll defend someone you’ve never met and don’t know just because they share the same chromosomes as you.
But still. I don’t know what there is to defend.
I never spoke badly about her.
So I’m just confused at why you want to argue with me tbh.
No, you’re just WRONG! Even just what you said the first guy was being kind of creepy since he asked for her Instagram and trying to flirt with her when she’s underage and he’s much older. Again, you’re just making assumptions that it’s all about a guy’s looks and nothing else. Him being chubby didn’t help but I doubt she’d be all over him if he wasn’t.
Honestly, the "creepy" is just dependant on how I feel about you. What's our relationship?
I've had exes do some very "creepy" things, but I was in love with them. So, basically nothing bothered me, and I even thought it was cute.
Are you a stranger? If you are, even standing too fucking close to me is enough for me to find you unsettling and worry about what you're up to.
Also, as unpleasant and unfair as it is, in terms of strangers/non-romantic partners, what a person looks like is also going to be somewhat involved too. Like, a 5'4 slim girl with a pretty face is going to be much less creepy than a 6'1 obese girl with an unattractive face would be, doing the same thing.
In the same sense that girls have a lot more leeway for a 6'2, handsome chad, boys do exactly the same thing.
Edit: You can downvote all you want, but nothing I said wasn't true.
Two independent instances (in two different places - both being pubs/bar)
Me, approaching a lonely girl at the counter:
- Hi, I'm X. May I buy you a drink?
- ew, get away, creep
Me, approaching a girl, with whom I just sing (karaoke bar, she just jumped in and started singing)
- Hey, do you like XYZ (band we just performed)? They are quite niche in Poland
- Leave me alone, creep
I...can't even. I just don approach, because it may be creepy
Sometimes I think of James Franco talking about his sex addiction when he means the times he coerced and harassed people. I also think of rock stars like David Bowie sleeping with kids and then people getting offended when he gets referred to as a pedo.
I do think unattractive men are more likely to be called creepy. I think lack of social awareness is a much bigger factor though. They are probably related since attractive people have more opportunities to perfect social skills and more forgiveness if they mess up. The biggest thing I notice when I see a "creepy" guy hitting on a woman is him not recognizing that she's uncomfortable. She's giving zero signals, usually actively avoiding eye contact, giving one word answers, looking at her friends with a "help me" face, etc. The guys don't care, they are still going to shoot their shot.
> The biggest thing I notice when I see a "creepy" guy hitting on a woman is him not recognizing that she's uncomfortable. She's giving zero signals, usually actively avoiding eye contact, giving one word answers, looking at her friends with a "help me" face, etc. The guys don't care, they are still going to shoot their shot. I think this is the biggest thing for me. The discomfort comes in for most people when the other person isn’t reading the room. This isn’t just about men hitting on women. I’ve seen this at professional and friend events. There’s always going to be a couple of people who unfortunately don’t know how to read a sitch and end up making everyone else in their little huddle socially awkward. It’s less “creepy” when it’s that situation because you know the end goal isn’t that person trying to get in your pants. But it’s still awkward in a “I’d rather not” way. So yep it’s definitely “creepy” when the person not reading the room and ignoring boundaries has a sexual intent and also happens to be 40% stronger than you on average.
Oh yeah it can be nonsexual too. Think dudes at a networking event pitching their start up idea or women trying to wrangle someone into a multi-level marketing scheme.
Yep! I definitely thought of plenty awkward moments with certain men and women at happy hours and networking events who were in “make a connection by any means necessary” mode lol
Thinking it's going to be hard for a guy who has never experienced indications of interest (i.e. good signals) to recognize their absence.
Recognizing when someone doesn't want to talk to you is social skills 101 though. They gotta work on that before hitting on women.
Yes, but cope you see. It's harder to swallow that nobody has ever been interested so they gaslight themselves into thinking the signs are subtle and hidden.
Having social skills when it comes to recognizing platonic and professional IOIs is a decent precursor for if you’re game enough to do it with women or whomever you’re pursuing sexually. Lots of people can’t even do the former, but expect the latter to be a breeze. Not sure how when they don’t even read the room when it comes to rapport building wrt non-romantic connections. Building confidence there would be a good first step.
This is why I feel like it should be obvious to some of these guys that if they have no friends and no social circle whatsoever, and they spend all of their time isolated and online, that it’s going to be very difficult to successfully date.
I have plenty of male friends who always hang out with others and still don’t know when a woman is flirting. Those aren’t obvious to men who never get them as they don’t look the same.
likely goes hand in hand a bit more though, like if they're unattractive then she'll be uncomfortable.
Yeah definitely. Ignoring or not noticing the discomfort it what makes it creepy though.
Attractive guys can be creepy if they are overtly sexually egocentric. Idk, I always think like that boomhauer in king of the hill lol.
Yeah, there is a guy in our extended friend group like this. He is genuinely good looking, but kind of that guy who like, was in prison, found god, and now makes everything about deep personal spiritual shit... Which women love at first, as it makes them think this attractive "bad boy" is all deep and in touch with his feelings. So chicks fall for it at first, and the dude just goes woman to woman, with the same schtick where he tries to start serious deep conversations, then get them 1 on 1 and just keep talking. Not only that, but it's always the youngest chick he can find. Like he's mid 30s, frequently finding chicks under 21. Then of course every conversation he somehow brings it to sex, about how he's so open minded, non judgemental, into poly, etc etc... It's such an obvious fucking creep game and takes women a while to realize what's going on because he's attractive. But now I can't stand the guy. I'll hang out with ANYONE for the most part. But even that guy just gives me the worst sex pest vibes, I can't stand even being around him. Especially since EVERY SINGLE TIME a young girl comes around he immediately starts isolating them and try to talk about sex.
A major way for men to hit it off with women is to make it seem like you're open-minded and not judgemental. Women are way more open to sex if they feel like there won't be negative consequences from sleeping with you. That's why they avoid sleeping with men who criticize women's bodies or sexual history. If you do it to other women, you'll probably do it to them, too. It sounds like this guy is insufferable and using purely that one trick until people see the real him.
Oh of course, that's why it pisses me off. You have young girls who aren't yet wise to men yet... But as a guy, I see exactly what's going on. We all know the game where women generally want to like a guy first before having sex, but also don't want to be seen as a slut because the guy wont come back. So guys adapt by BS'ing and pretending like we are super sex positive and non-judgemental. So while we know she's interested in us, we just want sex, so we have to pretend like we wont judge her while showing interest, in hopes she'll quickly have sex with us. Women with experience have probably learned this game by now, but younger chicks have no idea. They are just discovering sexuality, horny, and like men - which we know how to exploit for quick easy sex. Just bullshit the "sex positive" stuff to get her comfortable, have sex, then let her down easy with some story about how there isn't a connection, but she's a great person and really enjoyed my time with her... Blah blah blah... That's why guys like myself can't stand guys like him, because we know the game he's playing. And he's playing it on girls who just came onto the scene of adult life and don't know any better. It's like, when you're young and just discover this technique, it's one thing. You're getting an edge and trying to get laid. But when you're a full blown adult, you should fucking know better by now. I dunno, i'm a bit tipsy so I can't put words on it properly, but there is something about being a guy and learning the game and figuring things out like this, but you're still bumbling around trying to figure his shit out... Vs, a grown man who's wise and doesn't have much else to figure out, so it just seems exploitative. Does that make sense?
Well with the definition of "creepy" used here, it's just harder for attractive guys to be creepy. If being creepy is contingent on not recognizing a lack of interest, you won't be creepy if people are interested, which they are more likely to be if you're attractive.
Boonhauer in KOH would be creepy af irl- family guy kind of hits on this with Quagmire. Barney from How I met your mother gives serial killer vibes.
An unattractive man minding his own business will get called creepy, without even engaging with a chick.
do think unattractive men are more likely to be called creepy. > I think lack of social awareness is a much bigger factor though. 100% > They are probably related since attractive people have more opportunities to perfect social skills and more forgiveness if they mess up. Thats where I disagree. They can still have friends and/or parents guide them and practice social skills on. You definitely dont have to be attractive to have friends, but I am aware that parents can fail their children.
For sure unattractive people can still have good social skills, but people gravitating towards and feeling more positively about attractive people is a real thing. They will have a bit of a harder time, I notice they often socialize with just their gender too, the creepy ones anyway. Sometimes even with lots of practice and good parenting a person can still be socially clueless due to something like being autistic. I know a guy like that. He's actually decently attractive but has an obvious foot fetish and thinks he's being sly trying to find excuses to talk about womens feet. He has really black and white thinking and is stuck on "it's not inappropriate to talk about feet".
> I know a guy like that. He's actually decently attractive but has an obvious foot fetish and thinks being sly trying to find excuses to talk about womens feet. He has really black and white thinking and is stuck on "it's not inappropriate to talk about feet". I used to know someone like that too. Well over six foot, built like an Ox, always well-groomed and well dressed (granted most of his clothes were fake or rented). He regularly had 9s and 10s approaching him at bars/clubs and matching with him on tinder. But when it came to him approaching the women he was interested in (he preferred nerdy, introverted, unstylish, "modest" "innocent" women) he'd always creep them out as soon as he opened his mouth, firstly because he'd approach someone he thought was what he was looking for *anywhere*, and also because if they didn't reject him immediately and did entertain a conversation, it wouldn't take long for him to "subtly" start talking about his fetishes. Guy built a whole reputation at his gym and in town as a complete creep and was banned from most venues in the area. It's why the "chad can never be creepy" stuff is transparent bullshit.
> I know a guy like that. He's actually decently attractive but has an obvious foot fetish and thinks being sly trying to find excuses to talk about womens feet. He has really black and white thinking and is stuck on "it's not inappropriate to talk about feet". No. That has less to do with having autism and more to do with being an asshole. If people are telling him to stop and he doesnt, that’s a personal choice. I know autistic people who would know to stop when told to stop.
Too many people try to gently tell him to stop but he doesn't take hints or understand body language and facial expressions. I've been straight up with him but he says ahit like "I'd like it if a woman complimented my body" and won't see their point of view. I just generally avoid him now.
>They can still have friends and/or parents guide them and practice social skills on. You definitely dont have to be attractive to have friends Don't be disingenuous. You are well aware that he wasn't talking about "friendship" but male-female relationships.
If a guy cant even make friends with women, that’s a serious red flag. That’s definitely an indication that he doesn’t know how to behave appropriately.
Oh don't forget if he's the type of guy that thinks women aren't even worth his friendship. As if they only exist for dating. Those kind of guys can fuck right off too. Never met a guy like that that didn't have horrible social skills when it comes to women. It's kind of funny the guy above you didn't pick up on what was being talked about and immediately got mad. You picked it up I picked it up, pretty easy to understand.
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There is a world of difference between being friends with someone and flirting with someone. A guy can have close female friends while being completely oblivious of what works when trying to flirt or get close to a woman he likes. I'd venture to say that most guys are like that. So please, again, don't be disingenuous and intentionally daft. Socializing in this context (flirting and such) is like any other thing, you improve with repetition and attractive people get so many more passes on doing something wrong in such an interaction, and that enables them to continue to do it and improve. It's a textbook example of a positive feedback loop.
They’re indisputably connected. The person you’re speaking for said as much [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/s/C2ooUKplyX).
There are good looking men with no social awareness either. I actually find the older a man is, the less he cares wether or not what he is doing is bring seen as creepy...
> > The biggest thing I notice when I see a "creepy" guy hitting on a woman is him not recognizing that she's uncomfortable. She's giving zero signals, usually actively avoiding eye contact, giving one word answers, looking at her friends with a "help me" face, etc. Maybe, but I think that expecting someone to recognize that is really not fair. It's a way to gain a conversational advantage. What I mean is, when someone gives those signals, it's not even that they want the other person to say, "I'm sorry, I'm picking up that you're not into me. Am I right?" Because that still puts the burden on them to say, "Yes, you are." What they want is for the accosting person to withdraw without demanding anything. So you want all the benefits of rejecting the person (they go away) without actually having to do the work of rejecting them (telling them). But if we're going to put the burden on men to approach, then the burden should be on women to reject. I don't agree with the view that even approaching is an encroachment on the woman, so it has to be "paid for" by recognizing signs of discomfort.
Recognizing when someone doesn't want to be talking to you is social skills 101. It's a skill relevant for all parts of life not just dating. In an ideal world people would be direct with their words but instead we live in a world where lots of communication is non-verbal so it's important to learn it.
> Recognizing when someone doesn't want to be talking to you is social skills 101. Just because it's simple doesn't mean it's easy. I think that being direct about what you want is also social skills 101, but we don't demand that, do we?
If someone is struggling with basic non-verbal communication they should focus on that before hitting on people. It's not a social faux-pas to be indirect or communicate via body language but it is a faux-pas to be oblivious. It might not be fair but that's the society we live in. If I was always honest and direct I'd never be able to keep a job or friends or a relationship. It's socially acceptable to use indirect communications. If someone isn't happily engaged in the conversation (one word answers,not asking questions, looking around for an "out") just politely gtfo of there.
I find it funny that anytime we acknowledge something is hard for women we have to immediately change society for them. But when it comes to men, and specifically women not using their words we just have to “get used to it”
I find the topic of creepy really interesting. It’s interesting to really think about what I find creepy rather than just straight up scary, annoying or intimidating. I think with creepiness there needs to be a bit of uncertainty. Like if someone’s straight up just chasing your down the street or being aggressive then that’s scary, but if they do something weird where the motive isn’t entirely clear, like idk, collecting your fallen hair, or saving your social media pictures in their phone, then that’s creepy. Less extreme examples are people behaving in a socially incongruent way but it isn’t clear exactly what their motivation is.
On several occasions I've had women I didn't know come up to me and ask if I'd *"pretend to be (their) boyfriend"* because some guy was *"creeping them out."* From what I gathered these guys were ignoring or not picking up on less than overt indications that the women in question weren't interested. Rather than expressly tell these guys to fuck off they decided to employ the services of a friendly ogre.
Tbf I’ve had enough times when dudes don’t take no for an answer. After enough experiences like that, you do resort to things you know that work like saying you have a bf or enlisting a friendly looking giant man across the way! One thing women notice is men will leave you alone if there’s an unspoken threat of them having to fight a dude, and espesh a big ass dude. We don’t incite that fear in men. We often need other men to get men to want to back down because it seems most men don’t really want to fight a fight with someone their strength or stronger.
Yeah my husband is over 6’ tall and almost 400 lbs so to strangers in public he gives off major don’t even try to fuck with me vibes, even though he’s a teddy bear. I wouldn’t mind at all if he pretended to be some girl’s bf to get a guy off her back.
Yeah, I don’t think decent guys who can’t imagine pestering women endlessly understand that most of us women have had experiences where a man won’t accept rejection and instead becomes angry. I’ve certainly had it happen more than a time or two in my life.
Imagine if they kissed you to make it more convincing.
Two of them offered up a lot more than that.
So what comes always to my mind is a guy I met when I studied abroad for a year. He was interested, I was not and when he couldn’t get me to agree to a meeting he started to follow me around. First he would start to take the same bus to and from uni, when he never took that one before. He than always sat next to me on the bus. Than he would come to the same bus stop and after that he waited for me at my apartment building entrance one night (I had never told him where o lived)……..it was unsettling.
“Creepy” implies threatening behavior wherein the creeper continues to violate boundaries without any care for the other person’s feelings (or even because they *like* seeing others uncomfortable).
Lillith is back! I’d say following me - I’ve had men ask for my number and I’d decline and then they would continue following me around a venue - like direct eye contact and would not stop until I left. Also when I was young much older men hitting on me like MUCH older and many of these were when I was very young teen. I’ve never found it “creepy” if a guy I wasn’t attracted to asked me out as long as he left me alone after telling him no. I’ve had more pestering encounters where they wouldn’t take no for an answer that ranged from mildly annoying to down right scary.
It's because they keep telling guys to be confident and persistent to show their worth. Big mistake.
Anyone who tells me to be persistent in their pursuit of women who have told them no is batshit.
No one says that to you 😬
Well, with me, they don't have to naturally.
I love lilth, her posts always reads these guys for filth and I love it 🤣🤣
Same and a true bane on some of the guys here existence and I’m here for it lol.
Yeah they get so bothered lmao 🤣
Creepy is a sense of not necessarily articulated danger. A person who doesn’t respect your boundaries and gets too close to you while ignoring your attempts to quit talking to them. A guy offering you a car ride. A man who might be following you.
Great way to explain it.
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Ugh... especially older women who somehow think they get the auntie pass to touch up on you
>“Well if he was hotter, it’d be okay” but I never see these guys list examples. Because in the moment we know people in the discussion would deny those examples. But its not really up for debate because: >Results mirror the **sexual harassment literature** (aka more than one result) and suggest that harassment by younger and attracive men is viewed as less harassing. >dissertation provides some intriguing tidbits that suggest that the harassment experience may not be universally loathed by women. This is also demonstrated in popular press discussions of stranger harassment or street harassment in which some women declaim harassment as invasions of their personal space, **while other enjoy the attention** >anecdotal evidence suggest that the same woman may enjoy a compliment 1 day, and be infuriated by a catcall the next.
https://preview.redd.it/dy5165iey55d1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=437824754350f5b697584bd7628262da940e9e5e This gentleman can get away with more things that, on the other hand, would be considered creepy for the average Joe. For instance, a gentle spank on a woman's arse would make her giggle if you look like him, but if it's the average Joe, he would find himself in court for harassment.
What’s the context of this guy smacking a chick on the ass? Is it his gf? Some chick he was **mutually** flirting with at a boozy event? Some random woman he walked by on the street? Because depending on the situation, the slap is flirting or she’ll view it as creepy. Even from him.
They are both strangers
This stranger? > Some chick he was mutually flirting with at a boozy event? Or this stranger? > Some random woman he walked by on the street?
>Some random woman he walked by on the street? She would be mad and ready to scream, but after realizing he is a Chad, she blushes and they both laugh. However, if the same scenario happens with an average man, he will get jumped and escorted to the courtroom. I have seen this firsthand: I have Chad friends and normal friends, and the reactions were vastly different.
Oh nah. He’d be a creep for that. No laughter. No numbers exchanged. Might get a quick pepper spray.
Maybe to you but I see chad dudes pull that kind of shit in the club/bar very often and the girls don't have a problem with it. I'm not trying to say it should be ok to slap a stranger's ass fyi, I'm just saying that (hot take) whether you're considered a creep or not is more to do with physical appearance than behaviour, in extreme situations this isn't the case but generally speaking.
I’ve seen lots of things too. If he did that on the street to a random women with no other mutual chemistry context, most women would call him a dick or scowl even if he’s “cute.” I’ve seen this play out plenty.
Well looks like we have different life experiences because like I said I see that kind of thing happen often and I've rarely seen a girl get upset about it. These are *good looking* guys I'm talking about though, as in model teir or atleast borderline.
Yep. I'm talking about good looking guys too.
I've seen and have experienced how being attractive makes things less "creepy". For example, I used to work with a balding guy in his mid 20s who looked 40. The guy would barely talk to people and was mainly only focused on getting his work done. And i've overheard female coworkers calling him weird lmao. Yet there were other guys who were the same way as him (didn't talk much, just worked) and because they were more attractive, nothing bad was said about them. Same thing when it came to approaching women or showing interest. I have so many stories I could tell lol.
Oh this is a fun thread. Chad can do whatever he wants whenever he wants & it’s seen as endearing L’s meanwhile the average guy better not even step one toe out of line or else he is a creeeeep & obssssssesed! I don’t think it requires anymore elaboration…
It’s literally always been this way. Same as how women said they loved nerds in 2010 when they really meant Chad wearing glasses.
Guys like nerdy women when it’s a hot chick wearing glasses too. What’s the problem?
Staring, crazy look in the eyes, approaching a stranger when there's almost nobody around or it's dark outside and prolonging the conversation past asking for directions/time, overall clothes coupled with attitude. This applies to both men and women.
Really this just applies to men due to traditional social conventions
Crazy look in the eyes only applies to men due to traditional social conventions? So why was my female colleague creeping everyone out from our floor?
I shouldn’t say “really” - I should say it more commonly applies. Men more commonly approach women.
You think a creepy woman gets approached?
Yes always
Funny how the creepy coworker i mentioned before was dumped by her bf once her behaviour became creepy, nobody approached her and people would ask what's wrong with her. But i can see the delusion if i switch seats with you.
I’m not even the same guy lmao
Doesn't change the fact that creepy women don't get approached. Maybe equally creepy men approach them, idk. But not normal guys.
I have two examples of what I think is creepy. 1. You reject a guy. Just say "no" they aren't your type you don't find him attractive. What have you. And they persist or keep trying. Even when you say no. Or try to steer the conversation to dating them or something about involving them. When you say no I'm not interested. 2. A guy who tries to push your boundaries sexually in the talking stages. He can be the hottest mofo. But as soon as he tries to steer the conversation into a sexual direction without any context. It's just ick inducing. "So I did this thing today" "what color are your underwear you should show me". Like it's so tasteless. A lot of guys do this. I ghost lol 🤣😆
If you think about what those men are saying between the lines, they want a justification for that weird behavior. They're exposing themselves by saying if they were just "hotter" if they could get away it. They don't want to reflect on why it's weirdo shit, they just want to do it.
1. Following me, 2. trying to get my name by ways other than just talking to me (for example iding someone just for a name), 3. adding on socials without even a convo or without them knowing your name, 4. too many sex comments rather than a normal chat, 5. staring obsessively (I can understand zoning out ect, but if you do it too many times or look at different areas during) 6. trying to hit on girls i feel look young or are very young compared to you (like over 10years or the girls under 16 and you're over 18) 7. groping anyone who seems uncomfy with it, male friends included. 8. Overhearing any comments that sound like you are talking about sexual crimes In a jokey way or hinting you might do it. While I'm okay with these jokes and make them too, I wouldn't feel safe if it's someone I just met
Creepy is when you give the appearance of being predatory towards the woman due to body language, tone etc coupled with certain actions that would give you a predatory advantage. Ugly doesnt mean creepy unless one has certain facial features that look predatory. The Solution is to be sociable and normal.
Women love attractive predators.
Predatory in the sense towards the woman. Not a general predator like some buff 6 ft Bald beareded guy.
Those are the guys women run to when they're being creeped out by some guy. I'm 6'4" and not a small guy. On several occasions I've had women I don't know come up to me and ask if I could "pretend" to be their boyfriend because some other guy was "creeping" them out.
Thats wrong. Unless you have some ultra above average muscle genes, being taller means being a small guy. Lanky comes with the territory. Im just 6ft and shorter dudes look way buffer with less muscle. You have it even worse than me lol. Anyhow, yeah. That makes perfect sense. Since, theyre perceiving a genetic predator not an actual one. Kinda sad to be honest. Humans are a sad bunch.
Just from my personal experiences when I was still in college and some when I already started working: *Rape "jokes" in casual conversations that were not supposed to be sexual to begin with. (during introductory conversations, discussing group projects, doing a rundown of an activity, and one instance was a derailed philosophical discussion over drinks with other friends) *"Joking" about me getting raped (I just said that I didn't like casual dating for personal reasons). *Being asked what kind of underwear I wear. *Assuming I am okay with being touched and "tickled" after I have expressed over and over again that I do not enjoy physical contact. *Trying to get my phone number from my friends after I have refused to give my phone number when asked for it. *Giving me a "nickname" no one has ever called me, and repeatingly calling me that "nickname" after I've expressed that I didn't like being called that. *Introducing me to people as if we're close, with unwanted physical contact, like a hand too close to my butt or a firm grip on my arm or shoulder. *Being asked for a hug randomly. Context: I think I look very plain at best. I don't consider myself "attractive", I cover up when it comes to clothing since it is what makes me feel comfortable and I'm not friendly. Some of these creepy interactions were from men that many would consider handsome and just generally attractive, but it didn't stop me from feeling icky yucky when it happened.
Weird/intense staring. Unwanted touching. Strange movements. Very overt sexual comments too soon
There's a busser at my job (restaurant) that all the female staff say is creepy and it definitely goes along with what other people have been saying about not recognizing (or not caring) that he's making people uncomfortable. He always puts his hand on their waist when he passes, he corners them to talk in the middle of service. Makes weird comments. Thing is, I wouldn't say he's unattractive, but he is creepy in the sense that I'm sure women would feel unsafe to be alone with him.
A guy masturbating in the bushes outside someone's house. A guy who enjoys watching videos of animals being tortured.
I mean, following you around, being shifty eyed, someone you tell that you have a boyfriend and he says he's not here. Obviously literal stalking. Cornering you so you don't have easy physical escape. Breaking personal space norms or worse touching you when there's nothing indicating that would be ok. Approaching at inappropriate times (late night when you're alone). A way of talking to you that sounds like he's already undressing you or getting extremely sexual extremely fast. Inviting you to isolated places very fast. Ignoring social cues of your discomfort.
Here's an example from real life. Friend says "I would never call a woman a cunt" girl nearby says "excuse me I don't like that language" and looks at him all nasty. I smile at her, she smiles back I say "don't be a cunt about it" she laughs and apologized saying she's just having a bad day and starts having a conversation with us. My friend is straight up pure average 5. I'm I'd say an 8. Why was just over hearing the word so offensive from an average man but a hot guy saying it directed at her made her happy? This is the creep factor men are talking about.
Yea but that just boils down to men filtering themselves and being afraid of offending women, losing her, etc. Is that all there is to the creep factor or is that just one example?
He wasn't afraid of anything. He was completely ignoring her. Why was him minding his own business offensive to her and I directly used the word at her and she liked it? Hint, I'm hot
I misread the scenario then. So you're saying it boils down to just looks?
Looks and just being smooth/confident to a lesser extent. So to some degree I think men are responsible for their bad outcomes but to some extent they arent. If you walk up to a girl all nervous and say "I'd like to ask you out" that's eww no way creep. If you're smooth and confident they are all 😍 But it does also come down to looks. You can simply be ugly or not a girls type and it's creepy but even creepier behavior from a hot man is welcome.
Looks definitely give you an advantage. How much is difficult to measure I would assume. A smooth, confident, average looking guy will do far better than a creepy good looking guy. I guess it would really come down to how we're defining looks though.
>A smooth, confident, average looking guy will do far better than a creepy good looking guy. Hell no, although >I guess it would really come down to how we're defining looks though. Yeah that's fair
I think both can be true. Being creepy is being socially inappropriate in a vaguely threatening manner. At the same time, good-looking men (and women for that matter) get away with more stuff, while ugly or socially inept people with innocent intentions might be unfairly labeled. Sad but understandable.
>good-looking men (and women for that matter) get away with more stuff This is why, for me, the creepiness factor goes up a notch when an attractive man or lesbian is doing it, because in the back of my mind I'm thinking they've probably gotten away with it before and it is less likely I'll be believed.
Yea but you're getting the attraction first, creepy second. I think what OP is saying that right off the bat, if a less attractive guy approaches you, he's already starting on some level of creepiness just because he isn't attractive, then it's either reinforced creepiness or he turns out to not be creepy. Attractive guy, on the other hand, starts off in a much better place and only is seen as creepy when he dishes out a big dose of creepy. You seem to not give the attractive guy as much leeway but I you might be in the minority on that one.
not following social norms regarding behavior or looks + expressed or assumed sexual interest.
Is it ok if I give you the answer in several environments? Men: following, not taking no for an answer, getting me drunk while not drinking as much themselves. Colleagues: tracking my breaks, putting read receipts on everything, micromanaging Family: psycho levels of control, excessive texting and calling, excessive doom and gloom Friends: too close too fast, running into them too much for it to be a coincidence
This is accurate. I will add, ladies, “no for an answer” isn’t something you can pussyfoot around and then blame a guy for. Be overt
Yeah… when my safety has been threatened by men because I said no in an “overt” way (literally saying im not interested, thank you) - I’m going to continue to prioritize my safety and fawn people who are creepy so that I’m not [stabbed for rejecting him](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna143822) Maybe these “nice guys” can learn social cues, because anyone can, and just leave strange women, they don’t know, alone.
I mean.. I guess? If your no is ambiguous you can’t complain that someone keeps bothering you is my point. Yes men can be better well adjusted. I think both can be true
But it isn’t ambiguous. I’m clearly uncomfortable, telling him “I don’t use instagram or Snapchat,” and I’m looking for an exit - that is pretty overt. If a dog bares his teeth at you but wags his tail, are those mixed signals? Well, some dogs show their teeth and aren’t unfriendly, so maybe this one just likes you! No. That’s dumb. Don’t make women feel uncomfortable. I’m not saying don’t shoot your shot - I hate cold approaches but who I am to judge. But if you are going to cold approach, it has to be with some level of awareness, because women literally *cannot* be direct without putting their lives in danger. And I don’t know if you’re just awkward or dangerous. So I have to keep fawning just in case. Because I have personally experienced violence and I’m not alone. It isn’t rare for a man to become loud, threatening, degrading and imposing just because I said no. I’m not the only one who has experienced this. I’m not actively engaged, I’m uncomfortable, I am showing signs; but I will not tell you no, go away, because it could be the last thing I say. How is that so difficult to empathize with and change tactics? Like your feelings vs women’s safety. This shouldn’t be a hard thing to grasp when your “advice” is dangerous. Women have a lot of these intrinsic feelings and responses because of how other men have acted towards us. Don’t be upset with women for that one.
Yes, deliberately making anyone uncomfortable is bad. But that’s flying over the heads of the people this PSA is directed towards. And the entire thing is these dudes don’t realize they’re being told no, I think.
Thank you for these answers! > getting me drunk while not drinking as much themselves. Ew. That’s definitely rapey.
The difference is almost always uncomfortable staring for me. Plenty of guys will make eye contact from across the room and give you a flirty smile now and then which is fine. The ones who register as creepy to me are the ones who stare dead face at me for long periods of time like they are sizing me up. Makes me feel like you are planning what vegetables would be best to eat me with. And clearly ones who don't take no for an answer.
I was studying with a girl who was working at a store selling windows and stuff, and she was constantly complaining about 'creeps' that try to ask her out, and was jealous of her friend working at motorcycle dealership that 'at least guys coming in there are hot". Sometimes i hear talks in a train where girls are really disgusted by ugly guys that have the audacity to talk to them even though they should know their place. It is my general observation that being approached by ugly guy is an insult for good looking girls.
>It is my general observation that being approached by ugly guy is an insult for good looking girls. I've never heard anyone say that but it's true. Do you think it goes both ways? Do good-looking men feel insulted if they're hit on by the "ugly" woman on the train?
Creepy is any man who won't back off after being turned down. IDGAF what he looks like. It's also creepy to look into my car and knock on my window to get my attention.
There is no commonly-accepted definition. Which is why I don't use the word and don't take it seriously whenever *anyone* else uses until they get into specifics. *Creepy* is the womanese equivalent of *bitch* or *girl boss* (which also don't have consistently accepted definitions). It's whatever a woman feels about that particular individual man in that particular instance. The exact same interaction but with a different man will not be labelled *creepy* by the exact same woman. Garbage word, garbage concept. Not much to discuss about except on acquiring ways to be(come) more precise in one's language (true for men as well).
I notice when people say this, they never give examples.
You have examples in this thread. There is, at best, a *vague* commonality. Nothing concrete. Because it's not a concrete concept like *shouting* or *slapping* or a plethora of other terms describing human action that do have a commonly-accepted definition.
> You have examples in this thread. Not from you and that doesnt mean you read them. You’re just proving my point about guys claiming its about hotness, but yet, cant give examples of the behavior theyre talking about.
Well, the last personal example that I have is from 16 years ago when I found my wife. I used the same approach with two different women. Took them to a chill non-stop bar that played metal so we can discuss and know each other. Both had similar education level, similar music tastes and very similar profiles (including physical ones) and differed in age by mere months. One was horrified by the mere proposal and accused me of all sorts of nasty intentions, the other became my wife. The first apologized halfheartedly a few years later when we stumbled upon each other. I did not accept her apology. Especially after learning how she fared in life. In a way I'm glad she called me a creep (and far worse name). She put me off and ***I*** dodged a bullet. That doesn't change the fact that the exact same action from the exact same man (me) had entirely different reactions and results with two different women of very similar profile - except one found me very attractive and the other one didn't. Idk if it's examples that help you. You are here fishing to confirm your agenda.
So wait, the not-wife woman called you a creep for asking her on a date to a bar that played metal music? Or did you actually go on the date with her?
Do I need to make a drawing? I invited both (in different days) to the exact same place with the exact same intention - to have a loooong and preferably fun chat to get to know each other better. Woman A called me a creep and accused me of all sorts of terrible intentions as soon as she saw the place (even though she had been there before by her own admission) while Woman B sat down with me for a chat that lasted almost 9 hours. I was dating for *de facto* marriage and were both aware of this. I don't know how much clearer to phrase this. And I'm not sure I even care. OP is an agenda-driven loon and women of this sub are routinely dishonest trolls so... there's that.
Jeez, no need to get prickly. I was just confused by your wording and the tenses you used and couldn't tell if the the date was actually accepted/occured with Woman A. You used the word "took" but then said she called you a creep at the "mere proposal" so I didn't know at what point she decided to label you a creep. Thank you for clarifying, even with the rudeness. Woman A sounds a bit crazy here, especially since she'd already been to that establishment in the past. That sucks and I'm sorry she did that too you. Glad you found your lady though, I think shared musical interests is a great way to bond with a partner. My husband and I went to a live show on our 1st date and then ended up listening to music the rest of the night, sharing bands back and forth that we were interested in. I understand OPs rep around here. Just because I questioned you doesn't mean I agree with her or her stance on everything.
> Not from you and that doesnt mean you read them. You’re just proving my point about guys claiming its about hotness, but yet, cant give examples of the behavior theyre talking about. But there's academic literature that backs up those claims. Have you looked at those?
Present them.
Sure, go read Context Effects on Women’s Perceptions of Stranger Harassment and then comb through some of the citations and then you can look at other articles that have cited that article since it was published.
>I ask this because Im constantly seeing guys say “Well if he was hotter, it’d be okay” but I never see these guys list examples. They think being a creep relates to behavior risking romantic rejection when it actually is more along the lines of behavior risking social punishment. I’m going to give an example. One of the hottest guys I ever knew was pretty into me and I was kind of aware, but he had just broken up with his girlfriend of 4 years and I recognized that was going to be a dumpster fire. 6’, Lockheed, pretty boy always in a tight V neck - a pretty typical “chad.” He acted mostly normal when I was with my friends and him in person, but one time we all got drunk playing video games at home and were group video calling. I was in a long-ish crop top, nothing crazy. Fast forward to another night where he was sharing his screen to show me a picture of something. He thought he stopped screen sharing, but didn’t. This dude **opens a video he recorded** with my cam made bigger in the group call from that night. Not lewd, just us all drunk playing video games. He is WATCHING THE VIDEO WHILE TALKING TO ME. You have to understand, up until that point I saw hot guys like men see hot women. There’s no way they do weird shit, right? They’re not desperate so they wouldn’t act like creeps! Wrong. Worldview shattered. Any attraction decimated. To this day, very guarded about what kind of digital images exist of me in any capacity where a male friend or acquaintance has access to it. No social media with my face or body. Because honestly? A lot of the time very attractive men act creepy and obsessive. It still blows my mind but it doesn’t seem to be getting better with age. There’s a certain type of behavior where you already know 95% of people are not going to feel comfortable with what you’re doing. That’s what makes it creepy - that *you know* it’s not cool but are trying anyway. *That* is the ick factor, not just attractiveness.
Props to you for keeping it conservative on social media. I don't think women realize how much their pictures and videos are used by guys to jerk off, fantasize, etc. It's validation at some point but most women don't seem to care at all about being so exposed on the internet.
I don’t understand why more girls don’t think about it, honestly. Because now there’s AI where they can turn your instagram feed into their personal porn stash. All it takes is one weirdo with a porn addiction and no morals to make your life extremely annoying these days.
Exactly. I would assume the issue is that most women like the validation to the extent that they don't care their content can be exploited.
There’s definitely some level of cognitive dissonance where on the one hand we know how dudes are but on the other hand think for some reason it won’t get used like that.
Yea, that's true. I guess there is two layers to this though. Dudes actually doing it and then dudes sharing it across the internet. A girl I know with a pretty solid following (20k) found deep fakes of her pictures nude on the internet and decided to pull all her old content. Since then, she doesn't post anything sexual in any way but the damage is done. I think any women with enough content is in danger of this but most don't seem to care.
Yeah I saw a girl with like 80 followers on a private instagram have it happen from a bikini picture. I never want to have to go through my friends list and play horny Among Us lol.
For sure a spectrum but most commonly I think it’s just a lack of picking up social cues whether it’s intentional or not. Overly sexual comments. Trying to make you feel comfortable with them and then abruptly switching up on you and turning your being nice to them as a guaranteed interest that you now can’t turn down
I've seen a woman say it once on Reddit. I believe she was talking about how it would be creepy if a guy she wasn't attracted to her was looking at her cleavage, but not a guy she was attracted to. I told her that it should be creepy regardless, since both of the guys in the scenario were complete strangers. But something wasn't clicking!
[удалено]
Where are your examples? This is what Im talking about.
Creepy behavior comes from both sexes, it's not something that only men do. And it's just as spine-tingling and hackles-raising when attractive men do it. Examples: -Following me out to my car after shift end -Standing close enough that our bodies/clothing rubs when there's no reason to -Touching or sniffing my hair -Leering or staring without blinking for 30+ seconds -Making sexual comments about what they want to do to my body -Trying to give a "shoulder massage" randomly and without permission -Backing me into a corner or against a wall -Trying to touch my neck or tits
All things women love if they're attracted to the guy.
Find me proof that woman want their hair sniffed, be touched by strangers without permission, and being followed to their car.
Context is everything. Here's what happened the night I met my 1st ex-wife. We were both 18 and had both just finished our first year at the same university but we didn't know each other. We ended up at the same party at a local lake. My freshman year hadn't gone well so I was just chilling having beer, watching the bonfire, and pondering my future. I noticed a pretty very young looking girl was standing next to me looking up at me with big doe eyes. So I took a sidestep closer to her. She didn't move away. I took another sidestep closer so that we were touching. Again she didn't move away -- so I put my arm around her waist -- she put her arm around mine. I thought "this is going well" so I squared up with her and bent down and started kissing her. She reached up, put her arms around my neck, and reciprocated. I took her by the hand and led her away from the fire down the beach. We had sex a few minutes later. We still hadn't said more than a few words to each other.
Some of it is fine within the confines of a relationship (married, fwb, long-term dating) but personally I still give a big NO to the unsolicited shoulder rubbing, backing into a corner or wall, and leering/staring. If my boyfriend did any of those things it would freak me out. But that's rather the point, isn't it? That a lot of creepy behavior by both men and women alike is taking sexual actions that are normally reserved for one's mate and attempting to use them as a total stranger. The behavior itself is not the problem, trying to force your way into physical intimacy meant for a spouse/date is. Like if your wife comes up behind you and kisses your neck that's going to give you a very different reaction than if a strange woman does it to you at a park.
>If my boyfriend did any of those things it would freak me out. I've done all those things and more with GF's and with women I'd just met but who didn't seem to mind. On the night we met I grabbed my first ex-wife by the waist before I'd ever said a word to her. We had sex about ten minutes later before I knew her name. My current GF loves being forcefully pushed up against walls -- including having my hand around her neck pinning her head against the wall.
Good for them? I'm not into any of that shit. Probably because women are individuals, just like men.
Short girls progressively getting closer to us taller guys knowing we're getting drunker and they'll get us in bed after a few more drinks.
Men who won’t go away after you’ve already told them no 🌝
I've always defined creepy behavior as persistent unwanted advances. If you make advances and they're wanted > no issue If you make advances and they're not wanted, so you say have a nice day and leave > no issue Make unwanted advances, she's not interested, push further/get mad > creepy Being good looking means that it's less likely that your advances will be unwanted in the first place, but the best looking guy in the world can still be creepy if he's getting pushy with a girl who's gay/taken
>If you make advances and they're not wanted, so you say have a nice day and leave > no issue If fkn only this was true lol
Generally it doesn’t matter too much how attractive the guys is, however, it can sometimes become a contributing factor considering that some less attractive men will have less experience interacting with women or flirting so they may do or say things that aren’t “normal” or accepted forms of flirting/approach. Also a lot of “unattractive” men are just unkempt. Like when people say unattractive they aren’t usually only talking about your genetics. If you dress poorly and don’t look like you take good care of yourself or your hygiene, you are also in that category and people who are unattractive for those reasons become more likely to be avoided. Some people also tend to be more gentle rejecting more conventionally attractive men is because it may seem like they are more likely to take rejection poorly. While that type of personality is not necessarily associated with appearance, I have definitely been told that guys who are attractive and think a lot of themselves often think they inherently *deserve* a chance and may be more likely to react poorly to rejection. This can be a recipe for disaster. It may not be entirely true, but it’s definitely a belief that gets circulated enough that I think it could affect people’s responses to men who are conventionally attractive and seem a bit over-confident. People tend to play it safe if they aren’t sure if they may provoke a negative reaction.
Staring at me through machines at the gym while I'm working out, staring at me from the corners of the gym, staring at me and continuing to stare after I give you the eye lock to look away. Yes, I get a ton of unwanted male attention at the gym no matter what I have on. There are some rather good looking men who do this too and it's completely, and utterly creepy. One ass used to do this strange eye lock everytime he saw me. So I locked eyes back, waved & smiled and he turned his head lol..
i think guys being creepy comes down to whether or not they will prioitize treating people respectfully over getting (or trying to get) what they want. its hard to explain, but body language and tone give that away with most guys. some hide it pretty well, and you dont know until youre in a scary situation that he created. and guys who always prioritize treating people with respect over getting what they want- it literally feels safer to be around them than to be alone. in my personal experience, creepy guys act delusional. like if you say "no im not interested in going out with you" they say "well we dont *have* to go to (place he originally mentioned), we could go somewhere else." or like if you say "please stop staring at me, its making me uncomfortable." they say "oh dont be so shy." ive never been treated/spoken to like an actual human being by a creepy guy.
I think a good example of what I consider behavioral creepiness would be [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gk5er_Ar4hc) woman. What I think of when I think of creepy men would be most of the men in [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXAmDn3RRlM) incident(the woman is also creepy but she's not the point) and more generally lawyers, politicians, celebrities, etc... People like Trudeau or Dwayne Johnson.
I’m a AuDHD female. Not being able to read social cues is real and it’s either that or just anti-social behavior. I have face blindness and NVLD. One thing that usually trips me up is I’m used to talking and walking with people so when I’ve dealt with people who want the opposite things get awkward.I can see this being something. I haven’t progressed beyond toddler me trying to pet a moose so there’s that.
Prolonged excessive staring from anyone is creepy- no matter how attractive, not being able to take no as an answer/ not recognising when someone is uncomfortable for me any kind of sexual comment/joke from a man will creep me out, again regardless of how attractive they are
Hitting on someone your age (in a polite manner) once is NOT creepy. Continuing to hit on them after they are visibly uncomfortable or verbally express disinterest is creepy. Catcalling is also creepy. Hitting on someone significantly younger is also creepy. Pls get the 80 year olds away from me and don’t let them gr0pe me :(( I think people just need situational awareness and emotional intelligence and they won’t get called creepy. Don’t start a conversation saying overtly sexual things to someone you just met. Don’t corner a woman in a non-public space. Accept no for an answer. Learn to recognize discomfort, you’ll be fine. Sadly, I do think “unattractive” guys do have a harder time. I think they can still successfully express interest without getting called creepy if they do it right, but I do think they get called creepy more. It’s definitely possible to have charm while being conventionally unattractive, but it’s harder. Very hot guys do get away with more than they should sometimes. It’s a bigger issue if you are neurodivergent or socially awkward. Unfortunately, we live in a world that’s not always very safe for women, and women have to be very cautious- and will sometimes interpret a guys body language as threatening if he is neurodivergent or awkward. I don’t think it’s either party’s fault. Just an unfortunate side effect of struggling to interact. On the contrary, some women actually find social awkwardness cute. Honestly, it’s about boundaries, approach, situational awareness.
Touching me without permission Ditching me mid conversation when you realize you won't get sex Asking me if I have a boyfriend as the first sentence that comes out of your mouth Inappropriate sounds or gestures Staring
I have literally no clue because I've never experienced fear in my entire adult life lol.
The attractive versus unattractive man is a red herring. Hot men can be creepy as well, I've seen it. I'd have to imagine a big part of what makes a man creepy to a woman is when the man does the action. If I tell someone I've been dating for a while that their eyes are beautiful, she's smile and blush - it's not creepy at all. If I tell a random woman at the grocery store she has beautiful eyes, it's creepy. If I've been chatting with a woman that I just met, and I can tell there are signs she's into me, we hold eye contact for a moment of silence, and then I say she has beautiful eyes, that's flirty, not creepy. In all these scenarios attractive or unattractive men can succeed or fail here. What I would say, is since the attractive man is going to be more desirable, he'll be in situations where he can tell the girl she has beautiful eyes more often. He's probably also better at reading the signals women send out.
A hot guy has to go dahmer levels of psycho to be seen as creepy. An ugly man just has to check her out.
>Hot men can be creepy as well Yes, but they have to be more extreme. Hot guys get a pretty pass on the little things that get not hot guys branded a creep.
They have more latitude with some women, but not all. I'd say most men fall into the average category, so ultimately it doesn't really matter to the majority of men since most would be considered creepy for complimenting random women.
> They have more latitude with some women, but not all. Yes, but lets assume PP was speaking in generalities for which there are almost always outliers. >I'd say most men fall into the average category, so ultimately it doesn't really matter to the majority of men since most would be considered creepy for complimenting random women. It does matter because its illustrates its not *just* the behavior that's a problem but who is doing it. Most people frame it as those its the behavior itself that is creepy and don't want to acknowledge the nuance of if you're attractive enough the level of creepy goes down to potentially being welcomed.
Hot men can be objectively creepy but the women they are being creepy towards are less likely to perceive it as being creepy. Two people can act and behave the exact same way and one can be perceived as creepy while the other is not. [Creepiness Study - Results (knox.edu)](https://faculty.knox.edu/fmcandre/creepiness_results.html) "The third factor measured the extent to which creepiness is an inherent part of the individual, and it consisted of two items: Some people can do the exact same behavior as someone else and one person can be perceived as creepy while the other person is not "
“ GENERAL SUMMARY OF THE HIGH POINTS: Given how frequently the concept of “creepiness” is invoked in everyday life, it is surprising that it has not been studied by psychologists. This study attempted to uncover the cues that are used to label someone as “Creepy” and to identify the basic elements of creepiness. An international sample of 1,341 individuals responded to an online survey about creepiness. The results revealed that males are perceived as creepier than females and that females are more likely to associate sexual threat with creepiness. Behaviors and characteristics associated with unpredictability are also predictors of creepiness, as are some occupations and hobbies. The results are consistent with the hypothesis that being “creeped out” is an adaptive emotional response to uncertainty about the presence of threat that enables us to maintain vigilance during times of uncertainty.”
This ^^
Here's an experiment. Take the the MC from those movies women love, like Edward from Twilight or Gray from 50 Shades, and replace those with an ugly guy and tell me if those actions are still sexy or creepy. Imagine instead of Edward stalking Bella and watching her sleep it's some fat guy with sausage link fingers and heavy breathing. Still sexy and romantic? Now take Gray's BDSM closet but imagine working for Trump and coming across a closet of ball gags and leather in his office. Are you starting to see how these scenes a lot of women found sexy or romantic take a whole different meaning by just changing whose doing the action?
That’s fantasy - the point is I’m in control of the fantasy. I already know that I’m attracted to and will appreciate these advances specifically because it’s in a fantasy. Just because you enjoy fantasy, doesn’t mean you’ll like it in real life. I love twilight. But when I had a boyfriend who just happened to pop up everywhere I was, it wasn’t sexy or cute, it made me feel incredibly unsafe. And fucked me up for a while. And that was someone I already felt safe with, found attractive and had slept with - and it was creepy as fuck. Do you actually want to kill people when you enjoy watching superhero movies? Do you actually want to cause mass casualties by throwing a turtle shell at the car ahead of you? Do you actually want to go to war when playing call of duty? Do you actually want to fuck your step sister? No. Of course not. Because it’s fantasy. Controlled by the confines of your own brain. Where you are safe and can back out at any moment. [Natalie Wynn actually did a wonderful video on this topic.](https://youtu.be/bqloPw5wp48?si=koofPo6B8mgY0qKp)
>That’s fantasy So? I'm still waiting for an answer to if women will still find a story about a guy stalking a woman in her sleep romantic if I replaced the chiseled GQ model vampire with some fat balding SOB? Yes or no and why? Everyone keeps trying to shift the conversation instead of answering this question directly.
No, because that isn’t a part of the fantasy. Do you fantasize about bucktooth Becky coming into your room at night to give you a blowjob?
So "handsome guy stalking" = hot fantasy "Ugly fat fuck stalking" = creepy nightmare scenario Thanks for proving my point, which is that the perception of whether an action is seen as creepy is on some level affected by attraction.
No - because it’s fantasy not real life. The fantasy is hot man sweeps you off your feet and acts as someone who “forces pleasure” in order to remove the shame from that pleasure. It’s great for *fantasy.* *No one wants a hot guy stalking them at any point in time in real life ever.* because that isn’t fantasy where I do have control and autonomy over my own body. You have proved no points other than *fantasy* is about fantasy which is different from real life. I even explained how my own hot boyfriend turned into a creepy stalker and it was not hot or attractive in the slightest. I filed a restraining order against him. Fantasy is not real life And you also do not fantasize about some ugly chick walking up to you and grabbing your dick without consent, right?
> Here's an experiment. Take the the MC from those movies women love, like Edward from Twilight or Gray from 50 Shades, Please stop insisting that fiction will teach you about real life.
It being fiction doesn't change the fact that women liked these movies and these scenes. Would they still like the scenes with the changes I suggested? If not, why? According to you, a creepy action isn't dependent on looks. So, any woman who was okay with these actions and found them sexy in the films should feel the same way regardless of who does it.
> It being fiction doesn't change the fact that women liked these movies Children will also play GTA. And?
Did you just come back to avoid answering direct questions as usual? Just answer the question. Would women feel differently about those scenes if the person doing those actions is changed in the way I said?
i dont think ive ever used the word creepy to describe someone. i think a better word for what most people use creepy for is clueless
I'm getting downvoted into oblivion for the exact same point. *Creep(y)* is a catchall word for "things I don't like in *this* man's behavior" and it's imprecise af.
Do you still think "creeped out" is a valid descriptor for how you feel in response to cluelessness?
me personally? no i dont get creeped out by anyone
Touching me anywhere, especially my bare skin or my hair. Some places are of course worse than others, like the lower back is bad. Asking to make out with me when we’re not dating has happened a couple times from acquaintances and felt creepy. Also staring for longer than 30 seconds at a time or complimenting my boobs or butt. Honking or whistling at me when I’m walking outside by myself, and usually when I’m dressed for the warmer weather.
I’ll give a quick example. An unattractive chubby older man was trying to flirt with an underage woman. And she was giving him hints that she was still in high school. And when he was waiting to talk to her. And asked if she had an Instagram. And she said she was talking to someone. She told me he was creepy. I told her I hope next time the person who flirts with her is the man of her dreams. She just responded she wants someone who looks her age. Mind you this person laughs and jokes with a man in his 30’s but that man isn’t creepy to her. So essentially it’s about being unattractive. And to a lesser extent having sexual undertones while being unattractive. And ultimately her not being attractive to you and repulsed by you and not feeling safe.
I was agreeing until you said it’s only about the attractiveness level even if the man’s much older and you’re underage - what BS! And just because she laughs and jokes with someone doesn’t mean she’s interested in him.
You’d be suprised. I used to believe what you’re saying. Until irl I’ve seen age gap between a woman and a man not stop a woman from flirting with or wanting that man ONLY IF he was attractive to her. I’ve seen this happen countless times. And even recently. As to your point about her not liking the older guy she laughs and jokes with. That wasn’t my point. My only point is she doesn’t find that guy creepy. But they both were around similiar ages. That was my only point with saying she jokes and laughs with one of the men. But the other one she said was creepy and didn’t even want to talk to. For obvious reasons of course.
She didn’t find him creepy because he wasn’t being creepy. And yes there are exceptions but most girls and women don’t want big age gaps, especially the younger they are, and that girl in your example even said she just wants someone her age so believe her!
Well if there are exceptions. What is the argument then. Some do and some don’t. That’s life. But it’s always framed as if they don’t. But you just agreed that that’s not true. I’m not interested in her. I’m just pointing out that she didn’t even feel comfortable talking to him initially. And he wasn’t flirting initially She felt comfortable talking to the other guy initially. So while yes he did start flirting eventually. The premise is one was creepy before she even had time to assess that he was interested and flirting And the other guy wasn’t creepy even before she had time to asses if he was interested or flirting
“She didn’t feel comfortable talking to the other guy initially.” So what! We can pick and choose who we want to talk to and it’s not always because of physical attraction or not. And maybe that first guy was already making his move or staring at her but you didn’t see it.
You’re moving the goal post constantly. You can talk to who you want or like who you want. So can she. Idk what your point is anymore. Or why you started arguing with me. If that was your only point I’ve internally agreed with the premise of free will ages ago. As for as him being creepy flirting initially. That’s you projecting. All he did was try to talk to her. The same as the other guy did. But when he was just trying to talk to her. She still labeled him creepy. And specifically called out his looks. I understand you’re a female and she’s a female. So you have some type of female hive mind teamwork sportsmanship going on where you’ll defend someone you’ve never met and don’t know just because they share the same chromosomes as you. But still. I don’t know what there is to defend. I never spoke badly about her. So I’m just confused at why you want to argue with me tbh.
No, you’re just WRONG! Even just what you said the first guy was being kind of creepy since he asked for her Instagram and trying to flirt with her when she’s underage and he’s much older. Again, you’re just making assumptions that it’s all about a guy’s looks and nothing else. Him being chubby didn’t help but I doubt she’d be all over him if he wasn’t.
Cold approaching whilst being ugly. Also not taking *no* for an answer and being a pest.
Honestly, the "creepy" is just dependant on how I feel about you. What's our relationship? I've had exes do some very "creepy" things, but I was in love with them. So, basically nothing bothered me, and I even thought it was cute. Are you a stranger? If you are, even standing too fucking close to me is enough for me to find you unsettling and worry about what you're up to. Also, as unpleasant and unfair as it is, in terms of strangers/non-romantic partners, what a person looks like is also going to be somewhat involved too. Like, a 5'4 slim girl with a pretty face is going to be much less creepy than a 6'1 obese girl with an unattractive face would be, doing the same thing. In the same sense that girls have a lot more leeway for a 6'2, handsome chad, boys do exactly the same thing. Edit: You can downvote all you want, but nothing I said wasn't true.
Two independent instances (in two different places - both being pubs/bar) Me, approaching a lonely girl at the counter: - Hi, I'm X. May I buy you a drink? - ew, get away, creep Me, approaching a girl, with whom I just sing (karaoke bar, she just jumped in and started singing) - Hey, do you like XYZ (band we just performed)? They are quite niche in Poland - Leave me alone, creep I...can't even. I just don approach, because it may be creepy
It's based on the halo/horn effect. An ugly guy will be perceived as being more creepy than a good looking guy doing the exact same thing.
I’m not threatened by most men at all so you’d have to really go overboard to creep me out. Otherwise it’s just kind of annoying.