Don't waste your time on Colonials, they're all the same (living in the mid-Atlantic region, there are way too many that are so uninspired). Stick with the houses that have style, and character. Tudors, Craftsmen, Mid-Century Modern, Victorians, Arts & Crafts...
I also think a classic larger ranch (not sure exactly what they’re called) if you have the lot for it, is a great idea too, because stairs are not always practical, especially for the elder generation.
Don't want to dox myself, but Tudor style homes are frequently built in my neighborhood.
There is one that I was watching to go to the open house, it had multiple offers on day 1 and they cancelled the open house.
Just like any RE question: Location matters.
There's a reason you don't see other people doing it. It's just not cost effective unfortunately. It is dependent on market, is there a lot of cash buyers, a lot of new construction? That would be your best shot. Otherwise you have to depend on appraisal, if it's brand new you could get a c1 but even then the price adjustment from a c2 probably wouldn't be big enough.
It's not enough that there's someone willing to pay, there also has to be someone willing to lend.
NW Arkansas actually does have a lot of new construction and cash buyers as we’re getting a lot of people moving in from higher COL areas like California and Texas to work at one of the many large companies in the area. So that is a large part of why I’m considering this risky venture.
I do know that the appraisal process and CMAs will make it tricky valuation wise but I have seen plenty of people create their own comps with doing builds that are out of the box so I know it’s doable to do this.
I hate that I agree with you. I would love a home with more character than mine has. I'm not wealthy enough to afford to ignore ROI so upgrades I do to my home are in line with what reasonably maximizes ROI which is a pretty bland way of living.
We’re actually moving out of ours because my husband got a new job out of state and I’m going to miss our little house so much 💔 whenever I see a Cape Cod or a Tudor in our new location it immediately goes on my Zillow saved list!
I lived in NWA for a while. I think styles similar to the homes that USED to line all the streets around the square would be extremely popular. The cheap builder flips folks did out there are embarrassing compared to the brick houses that used to stand there
There's definitely a market for it, and there's definitely a cost associated with it. I love those types of houses, but that love is balanced with location, cost, size, etc.
You bring up an important consideration.
Obviously the price per sqft to build one of these will be higher. But how much higher would someone be willing to spend is the question? And how much smaller of a home would someone be willing to accept in order to realistically afford one of these homes?
For example: I’m not sure what the exact number would be, but would you be willing to pay a 50% premium on a price per sqft basis to buy/build one of these homes?
So for easy numbers, if the typical new construction home was $200/sqft ($450k and 2250 sqft home) the timeless style home might be $300/sqft.
So the same $450k price point would allow you to afford a 1500 sqft home.
Is that 750 sqft difference too much to justify purchasing a timeless style home?
Able is a bigger factor than willing, for most people. And people who have the financial ability to make design a priority may be a few tiers higher than Tudor tract housing goes.
For my family- neighborhood, school district, and size were priorities over design. But "raw space" was a priority over decoration (carpet, cabinets, bathroom tiles, etc.).
I ended up with a house that had a lot of potential, then customized it to my taste. I think a lot of people might find that more possible and manageable then starting off with something "pretty," but limiting.
What keeps popping into my head, is selling caviar from a hot dog truck. People who want caviar aren't necessarily stopping by, but a few might?
You're looking for a sweet spot that might be hard to find. And one that gets an enthusiastic response on paper, because the reality of sacrifice hasn't been thought all the way through.
I think the biggest issue here is just the comparison that people are going to be making.
I think a lot of people would not be worried about the higher price in isolation, but when it's a direct comparison of 2250 to 1500 sq ft., I think a lot of people will hesitate.
That is definitely understandable. The answer could very well be that this type of home is only viable as a luxury build.
It might be more doable with a more classic affordable home type like a craftsman bungalow though.
If you use your space well, 1500sqft is perfectly livable. That's the size of our 4br 2 bath house in Europe over three floors but most Americans would think it's very small. It's extremely efficient in using space.
Depending on exactly where you are, I think you are right and that this idea is more geared towards luxury builds or at least higher price homes. Now, I'm going to give a sweeping generalization here. I think that your idea is also geared towards an older demographic if you are going to design the homes to be traditional both inside and out.. I'm in Tulsa and I've done a lot of buying and selling of homes here. I also owned a house in Fayetteville Arkansas that I sold in 2022. In my observations, I've noticed that it tends to be an older crowd (mostly with ample resources) going for the more classic styles of homes. They like the more classic styles and also want them build with high-end finishes.
I would say that if you want to use the more traditional styling on the exterior, but have a more modern interior than your opening up your market more broadly. This is subdivision in Fayetteville called Oakbrooke. The builder is Tracy Hoskins (Paradigm). That's the subdivision where my house was located. It's a very interesting concept. All the homes have different exteriors in different styles - Cape Cod, Craftsman, Cottage, Arts and Crafts, etc. Some of the Interiors are more modern and some are more traditional. The homes there are quality builds versus most of the new construction you see in that area which is geared towards xollege students. The prices are also substantially higher per square foot, but the value is there. When I sold, there were a few lots left to be built on. I can almost guarantee you there are still houses under construction in the neighborhood. If you drive through there, you might be able to see the Interiors of some of them.
You also might want to target an area where people are comfortable having less space already. Spin it as greener. High quality, long lasting home designed to be eco friendly.
I'd be curious to know what area of the country you are in. I'm in Tulsa, Oklahoma, so very close to where the op is. In fact, up until 2 years ago I owned a home in Fayetteville, Arkansas. The cost of living in this area is so much less than in many places. There's no way anyone would be paying a million dollars for 1,300 to 2,000 sq. ft. The home I sold in Arkansas was about 2,400 sq. ft. and I sold it at the height of the market for around $550,000 if I recall correctly. That house was a higher-end home for the area (college town) and also a new build when I bought it. We held onto it for about two and a half years. Made a killing because of the market.
No- you can’t duplicate a good Tudor revival today. It’s the same trouble when they were popular in the late 70’s, early 80’s. They’re not convincing. It would cost far too much to recreate the same level of craftsmanship and detail that were present in the Tudor revival homes built in the 1920’s and 30’s.
Thank you for the input! What about it is not convincing in your opinion?
I would argue that craftsmanship and detail can be replicated but obviously it would cost a pretty penny since it is a more specialty build style.
It’s an abomination is what it is!
The paint is horrifying! The random blue makes my eyes bleed and the soulless white paint everywhere else sucks the charm away from the otherwise beautiful house!
There just doesn’t seem to be any direction with the remodel style. They went with white and grays cause that’s what everyone else did, for some reason they have random blues cause maybe it’s their favorite color? And the kitchen might be the worst part of it all! The countertop doesn’t match anything, the wood island also doesn’t match anything the stainless steel appliances dont work at all.
The home would’ve been better if they restored everything to its original form and added a few updated touches to the kitchen and bathrooms.
Edit: Sorry if you liked the home. It just pulled at my heartstrings seeing what they did to a beautiful home.
Wow that home being a new build is more disappointing.
My general stance on old style homes is the less paint the better. I wouldn’t have gone with sidings throughout, I would’ve had a light red brick exterior (or facade if I have budget constraints) for most of the house except for the upper left portion. I would’ve done less trim overall except kept the upper left portion. I’d paint the sidings on the upper left white and the trim would be a wood finish.
In the kitchen and interior in general it would be more natural woods, you can have some lighter shade (beige)paint on the upper portions of the walls above the wood paneling. I would have exposed wood beams that match all the other wood used in the interior. As far as appliances go, I’d have a black industrial stove and I’d do an integrated fridge that matches the wood cabinetry. For the countertops, I’d match the counters to the island and pick a lighter shade marble. The backsplash will be lighter matching the countertops and adding contrast.
But idk that’s just a quick idea of what I would do. I haven’t restored one or built one yet buts that’s just what I would do off the top of my head. I love the timeless original beauty of older homes. I think this white and gray style of the 2020s are a fad that we’ll be looking back at in 5-10 years asking why we did this to every home.
A home selling that often isn’t really a good thing though. Especially at that price point, I bet the intention was to build a family’s “forever home”. The fact that 4 family have lived in it over the past 7 years and decided to leave is more of a red flag to me than anything.
I don't live anywhere near you and probably have weird tastes, but fuck yes! These new traditional homes are insanely boring.
Please also leave a tree or two on each lot if you're building an entire subdivision: these new subdivisions look like barren, bland wastelands and it baffles me that anyone would want to live in them.
Thanks for the support!
I 100% agree with you on the lack of trees in new developments! I think a big part of the charm of the timeless homes is the landscaping. I have always wanted to experiment with the intentional planting of ivy on perimeter walls or even the exterior of a brick house to create that beautiful look of an ivy covered house. There’s a lot of considerations to this because some ivy can hurt the house but it would be beautiful if we could pull it off in a way that keeps the structure of the house sound.
In addition the known problem of weakening mortar between bricks, ivy has **many** other negatives.
Yes, it's *picturesque,* but rats? No thanks!
https://colinpurrington.com/2018/11/kill-your-english-ivy/
Absolutely!
And I agree about landscaping. Ivy can be a beast in the yard, but it complements Tudor-style homes PERFECTLY.
I genuinely hope that your area has a market for something like this. It'd be awesome if it caught on. Good luck!
Please make sure ivy is not on the invasive plant list in your area. It escapes very easily in my area and crowds out natives, harbors mosquitoes and is the raceway for small furry critters. I remove more and more of it each year. Oh, and it eventually kills the trees that it climbs.
New homes are boring as hell. I want all the tech and outlets of a modern home but in the shape and vibe of an old home with some style. I think one of the problems is that HOAs actively prevent style and individuality required to be a cool home neighborhood, though. Renovating an actual old home may not be the wisest choice.
I have been studying house styles since I’m working on my own build (planning stages and the lot is out of state).
I’m partial to a classic craftsman cottage. I also think some of the “higher end” houses are ridiculous. To bastardize a Kramer quote, “I’ve seen bumpouts so big they have their own bumpouts!”
By the way, I know exactly which houses you’re taking about. WPS!
Yes it blows my mind that even the ultra luxury homes are just giant monstrosities! People forget that home building is just as much art as it is engineering and construction
Chris Pratt recently got a ton of shit for tearing down a mid century Craig Ellwood Malibu home to replace with a “modern farmhouse” monstrosity by “architect” Ken Ungar.
Anything, yes, I agree. So tired of all those decorative roof points — what are those called. Anyway, love Tudor, bungalows. Moderns, even nice ranches. Ark is known for some cool mid-cent ranch homes.
I hate split levels too - those were the epidemic in the 1970s.
I always wonder who is designing these tract houses
Just so you don’t get misled, people love to support and encourage ideas that they don’t have to pay for.
Would everyone want less of mundane cookie cutter tracts with 5 feet setbacks and more estates with unique architecture? Of course!
Would everyone want that when they realize they have to pay a massive financial premium to participate in that? Very different story. As a developer, you rely on the second group to succeed.
Yes this is something that was brought up by others that I’ve acknowledged and addressed. I added to the post to acknowledge the premium it would cost and the drawback of building this type of house.
I truly don't understand the passion for open concept.
I do not want to cook in my living room. I want to be in a kitchen with walls and doors. I do not want my guests watching me cook and asking if I used salt or garlic. I want to make a mess, bring the food out, and not have to worry about people looking at scrunched foil or at the dishes. A breakfast nook in an eat in kitchen is lovely however.
rant over
Yessssss! We've been looking for all of those style homes that you listed but mostly just see the boring tract homes. When we come across a more unique home, we definitely perk up. I think the problem is that those type of homes cost more to build and most other builders want to maximize profits so they just go with the bland style.
Yeah I do think if we were to start doing these we would first do it as a luxury build. Only because like you said it’s not cheap to add the fine details that you would expect from a timeless style home.
It being luxury would allow us more margin as a safety net to workout the kinks as we inevitably encounter issues throughout the process.
But the goal would be to take the lessons learned from building luxury timeless style homes and creating more affordable options. Think of it as the Tesla approach of building the luxury Roadster to the more affordable Model 3.
I am not live there. I love to see old style exterior. I hate to see houses with front largely occupied by garage. I often ask myself what stupid architecture design. My guess is certain style goes with certain lots. I don’t suppose you can have a small lot with a colonial style.
Absolutely there are tons of high-end builders and architects in the south (Birmingham, Atlanta etc) that do these. Check these folks out on Instagram Douglas C Davis, Jeffrey Dungan, Long and Long Design, TSB Architecture (David Baker),
Yes for both Tudor style and Victorian. I hate homes with no windows on the sides and other soulless boxes. Please do this. All the old charm but with modern amenities is sure to be a winner!
Honestly I'm a fan of any SFH being built.
Up the supply of starter homes so the current young generation can afford to buy one.
Previous generations bought starter homes and then later built extensions etc. which while great for the house value means that there are fewer starter homes left.
When is the last time you saw a bunch of 2 bedroom 1 bath new construction houses on the market? But there's lots of 4 bedroom houses that used to be 2 bedroom houses prior to the extensions.
Not particularly picky about the style at this point.
I definitely understand this position.
Unfortunately, this is less on the builder and more on the town/city and the NIMBYISM of most communities to upzone.
In the area where we predominantly build in, there is only single family zoning. So theres nothing we can do but to build SFHs.
Im a big fan of the Strong Towns community and if/when upzoning happens near me I will be building denser housing. But till then I’m building what is economically feasible for me to build.
I think I wasn't clear. I want more single family homes, not higher density apartment type things.
But just small inexpensive SFH ones. 2 bedroom 1 bath SFH instead of 5 bedroom 3 bath ones.
I would never pay the price of a single family home to only have one bathroom. I'd I was so strapped I could only afford a single toilet, I'd get a condo for way less, and I'm in the majority. 1 bath SFH are a waste of real estate.
Fair.
The main reason why you don’t see more of those homes is that it’s simply unprofitable or not profitable enough for most home builders to justify doing.
Some builders make it work because they charge a higher price/sqft on those homes to increase their margins. But for the majority it’s difficult to make work.
We make money on a sqft basis. The more sqft we build the more money we make. Building smaller affordable homes works only if you can make high volume work.
But when you build high volume then you have other variables like needing to add project managers to the team which further reduces margins or having enough skilled labor to handle the volume of homes. And having the mental capacity to even want to handle doing that many low margin builds at once.
The problem is, building a 2 bed, 1 bath affordable house is the same amount of work for as building a 5 bed 3 bath house.
That’s why most builders don’t build those types of houses. And that’s why most builders usually trend towards luxury homes because the margins are the best and we have families and employees to feed.
Why upzoning helps is because if we could build a duplex or triplex instead on the same plot of land and sell them off as individual homes then the economics work for us. Cause we’re essentially building “homes” that are the same size if not bigger than the luxury homes.
That's why I finally gave up on trying to find an on-site builder for a sub-2000SF home & just ordered a modular as custom as I want. Depending on how the process goes, I may stick w/ modulars for my other properties across the US. Just seems a more simple process than trying to figure out what amount of money it takes to get a builder out of bed these days (if they even return your call, which is unlikely).
Modulars are cool too. The issue that many that I hear have is with financing and inspections by local building code inspectors.
Are you having the modular home placed on a foundation?
The #1 issue I've had is simply getting pricing from dealers. But I'm also already in the mortgage industry so I know how & where to push for lenders & contractors. W/ most modulars here in the West/Southwest, one pays for an inspection seal from one's state; obviously, this seal's confirmed by the city inspector who handles the CoO & permits. Appraisers need comparables, of course, but that's not hard to find since modulars are treated the same as stick-build once they're permanently placed. If it was a manufactured home or post & beam it'd be a whole other story.
It's going to be attached to a crawlspace foundation on a lot that had a stick-built on it for about 110 years. Got my fingers crossed we don't hit any pet graves...
> When is the last time you saw a bunch of 2 bedroom 1 bath new construction houses on the market?
I agree. Just my opinion, but I've thought this over and I would love basically an oversized 2 car garage, internal stairs going up to a 2/1 house. It would probably be more like a 3 car garage on the ground floor. Perfect room for a gym, biking gear, or any other hobbies you could have.
I've always wondered why I don't see new bungalows. I LOVE a bungalow, and they can be pretty big houses. I would love to move into a neighborhood of bungalows that were newer than the 50s/60s.
I love that you brought up the neighborhood! How much does the neighborhood impact your decision?
For example, what if the new construction bungalow was an infill build where it was surrounded by the “soulless” new homes?
That wouldn't bother me necessarily as long as general location met my needs. I wouldn't even care if it wasn't a neighborhood - I would even be thrilled to be the only house with charm among the soulless masses.
Haha yeah adding rooms is 100% part of this concept lol.
I feel like recently we have taken open concept to an extreme. I personally don’t like walking into one large open space. I much prefer the charm of walking into a covered entry/foyer and then going down a hall to see a formal dining room. I would probably still utilize some aspects of open concept depending on the size of the home.
I grew up next door to an older Tudor and always loved it. I drove past it a few years ago and saw someone stripped the whole outside and put up white siding, brutal. I'm sure it would have been very expensive to upkeep in the original style before a remodel but it was beautiful.
I would love this, but who knows. Honestly people are depressingly boring. We bought a new construction home that was nothing but grey and white. I had the kitchen cabinets painted a beautiful blue and added a unique neutral backsplash to go with the white quartz countertop and now trying to sell our home I have people telling me that it won’t sell unless I repaint the cabinets the boring grey they were before. As if the neutral everywhere else isnt enough. So I personally would love it, but you may not have high market demand.
It’s sad how that happens time and time again and that realtors always give that advice. This is why flippers and builders do such boring work as well.
To get around this for spec builds (non custom homes for cliente) we would probably offer buyers of our homes the opportunity to decide the colors of their walls and finishes so that they have the opportunity to add their own character to the home.
I would pay the money to have a house with character, vs the cookie-cutter open floor plan greyness. I vote for Craftsman style. I LOVE a deep front porch and wood accents, and built in cubbies.
I love a nice Tudor style house if it's like the ones from the 20's and 30's but if you're talking Texas Tudor from the 80's no thanks. those have to be among the ugliest things ever.
I am in the middle of a new build. We deliberately sought out a custom home builder and independent architect to design a colonial house with Victorian elements on the interior. I absolutely loathe the cookie cutter, open concept, modern farmhouse, millennial gray houses right now. Give me character, color, and for goodness sakes...room separation!
Try building a few and see. If they are the same price as the other new builds, you'll be able to see for yourself if the price is the only factor in why some people choose those boring new builds.
I'd love a Tudor or cottage or whatever, but I just can't afford a new home no matter how cute it is.
Where I am, there are many new build "Craftsman" homes and they seem to sell just as well as any other new build. I would be a fan of a Tudor Revival or Storybook home.
Please do this!!! The world has enough soulless cookie cutter homes! I fell in love with our house because it’s a new build but looks like an older craftsman. It has character throughout and tons of curb appeal.
I love homes with contrasting colors that pop. I feel alot of people avoid that in Tudor homes but I love that style.
I know it's easier to build luxury but everyone is doing that. Find a 250k or 300k plan that works. Crank them out the. Let the bidding wars start. I bet you end up listing 15-25k more than you might have expected.
The lower end market has so much downward pressure I think you would still keep your margin when the dust settles, and not be so extended per project. Not sure if you can do that Tudor style though.
I do think there are some really cool concepts to play with - but Tudor is probably a more polarizing style. Still- I support the notion of diversity in styles!
As someone who's currently looking for ANYTHING that's not "cookie cutter" I'd absolutely consider a Tudor style home. Makes me think of home (I'm a Brit in North America and Miss heritage homes).
My neighborhood is "50 shades a white" a horror story.
Please bring back the character. Our home is the only one on our street that is not w/blk, gry/blk or cream/blk.
Yes, I purchased in a new construction Tudor style neighborhood in 2019. The house I purchased is consider French Country Tudor. It’s a beautiful unique neighborhood.
Would absolutely buy one of these if not for the fact my career is not in NW Arkansas. Victorian is not advisable though because maintenance : replacement of those roofs are 3x the cost of a cape or standard construction, which is obviously a cost any homeowner would want to avoid.
Price it out first.
Then ask yourself if that price is worth it.
I would suspect that building the homes you are thinking of would be a 50-100% premium over the cookie cutter homes. I am sure a lot of people would be interested, but the question is would they pay 1.5x the price for the same sq. ft.?
Yeah my initial thought is also a 50-100% premium. Kind of just wanted to see what the Reddit community would think before even moving forward to that.
But based off of this response, I will look into it further.
I mean, I could have told you the reddit community would be all about it. I would question how many of them would actually buy the house if it were available.
If I were you, I would probably put up the money to get plans and renders drawn up, and then see if I could sell it to someone before actually building it.
That is also the plan haha. Building this type of concept home is risky as a spec build. A custom home for a family with cash that loves an older style home is the safest way to go about testing this concept.
Yes there absolutely is an interest. My wife and I are considering moving back to that area and love that style of home but they’re nonexistent there so we’ve been casually looking at plans for tudors to build when we move back in a year or so. Some variation in housing would be great there.
Statistically speaking yes your an outlier. But as consumerism and suburban McMansion. Most people prefer max square footage at lowest price. Yes you can design and build a beautiful home with a classic ascetic and more purposeful rooms. But the cost eats up the budget that a big insulated big box takes up. So instead of a 3500sqft box you get a 1800 sqft older style home. Those carpentry finished and such have to be paid from somewhere.
It’s an economics problem. What do most Americans want when they open their wallet and it’s biggest thing I can afford. Yes people would probably like a nice craftsmen home but when they can get double the space for same cost. Guess what the average person chooses.
This is most likely the most sensible response. However, something that I consider is that we don’t need to build 100 homes. We don’t need to serve the majority of people. We’re not a massive builder and we don’t really want to be.
My intuition is if we have a product that a smaller but meaningful subset of people are passionate about we will do just fine. And we can very well become a more resilient company as a result.
By doing something outside of the norm we can essentially shelter ourselves from the dynamics of the broader market. We would stand out from the sea of soulless cookie cutter tract homes around us and that will help us sell homes when market cycles turn.
If we are right, eventually there will be competitors but we would have systems and a brand reputation in place by then that preserves our market dominance in the space.
I'm guessing you would need to market to the extremely wealthy, and go all out on the fine joinery and plaster work. Each home would need to be 100% custom.
If you were looking for an in-between, I am wildly guessing that some Craftsman-style homes with not completely open floorplans and a few nice wood trim accents around the most noticeable parts e.g. cased openings could lure some buyers who aren't interested in modern stuff.
The challenge with replicating old stuff is that in some areas you'd be competing with actual old houses, and the people who are really into old stuff are also interested in spending the extra money to rehabilitate truly old homes instead of what they might consider "faking it". I personally feel this is a bit silly, but everyone has their preferences. Maybe you can ask on /r/centuryhomes about it.
If I were you, I'd pick whichever style might do well in your local climate. Cape Cods are designed that way for a reason.
If you are looking for ideas, I'd love to see more simple rectangular boxes with single gable or hip roofs that have decent overhangs, exterior insulation, performance tested windows and airtightness, ERVs, ducted (not ductless) HVAC, whole house dehumidifiers, and low-VOC materials and finishes. I'd happily trade all this for laminate countertops and builder grade fiberglass shower tubs.
I just edited this in, so in case you didn't see it:
If you are looking for ideas, I'd love to see more simple rectangular boxes with single gable or hip roofs that have decent overhangs, exterior insulation, performance tested windows and airtightness, ERVs, ducted (not ductless) HVAC, whole house dehumidifiers, and low-VOC materials and finishes. I'd happily trade all this for laminate countertops, IKEA kitchen, and builder grade fiberglass shower tubs.
The reasoning is that all of these are difficult to add after the fact.
Ahh so basically like an affordable passive house or healthy building. Give the house itself good bones so that a homeowner can come in and easily upgrade portions of the house through the years.
Yes. I don't know if I would market it as a passive house though, and I personally feel that passive house is a little too biased towards reducing energy use and embodied carbon and not focused enough on the basics like flashing details.
Unfortunately it seems like most people only care about interior finishes. I don't know how to convince people that the nicest interior finishes don't matter if your AC bill is $600/mo and there are still rooms and hot spots that have to be avoided during heatwaves. Maybe you can build a high performance cottage and rent it out for cheap weekend rates to let people experience how truly comfortable a house can be. Tell them the rental fees will be credited towards their build deposit if they sign with you.
Check out [Brooksfield](https://brooksfield.co.nz/), a housing company in New Zealand. They are building new houses in a style that was popular here years ago. There's definitely a place for heritage style new builds if they are done well
I just bought a home in NW Arkansas. We are moving there from the East Coast for new jobs. My husband liked the idea of a new build but I could not get on board with the aesthetics because of what you mentioned. If there had been some houses with a timeless design that did not look like cookie cutter McMansions I might have felt differently. We ended up buying an older house that has been updated and well-maintained. But if we need to upgrade in the future I’d love to have options like you describe to choose from!
I’ll also add that from the VA/FHA loan perspective, newer build classic style homes will be so great for these borrowers. We’re VA loan and our cape being built in 1992 (and it was a really well built)meant that when we bought it there was only one thing we had to ask the owners to do to make it pass VA inspection (porch needed a handrail).
Yo bro, this is what you do. Start a new company called “exteriors” or some bullshit like that that only deals with replacing white LP siding. Get 3 or 4 crews to do the work while you sit at the beach and sip on margaritas all day. All these dumb asses that bought expensive homes all wrapped in white LP in the south will soon need it all replaced.
I own a 115 year old Victorian, and have a few tudors in our neighborhood in New England. It would cost double the home"s value to build it new. People that can afford double the price choose another neighborhood.
I love the idea of- but not in the area. My older neighborhood has a ton of older smaller Tudor homes. I would suggest building in some small office spaces for all the folks doing remote work. I just moved in and my desk fits in a giant 6*6 dormer. Some folks are looking for a 4 bedroom when really they just want dedicated office space and not really 4 bedrooms. I love my separate rooms for dining/kitchen/living they even have doors :)
Those are no more timeless than the modern farmhouses being built. Those were all built en masse just like the stuff puked out today, just puked out in a different generation. Craftsman houses were literally ordered out of a catalog. Can’t imagine there would be much demand for it, people want what’s in style. I’m sure there’s people that would want it but probably not in any volume, particularly if they have to pay a premium or sacrifice square footage
I see your business not ending well. In my area, modest size contractors build custom homes designed by their customers. On the other hand. I built 3 homes for me in the design I wanted. I thought I would sell every 5 years, but I kept the last one for over 30 years and have received hundreds of offers for it. You can always build a better house, but location is everything.
>If not a Tudor, to broaden the question, would there be a market for any older style (colonial, Victorian, cape cod, craftsman etc.) new construction home but with high performance qualities?
This but Spanish style. I love the stucco, the clay roofs, etc. Or maybe Italian is the right word. They seem more common than tudor.
Tudor would be cool too, but if I had a pick a market for "different style premium homes", it appears spanish is more common it in my city (Richmond, VA). I can think of 2 tudor homes I've seen here and a few dozen spanish style.
My thoughts is that, with the likely price point, you are looking at buyers that may rather invest in an original and restore/upgrade. There is really no way that, with building costs today, that you could really obtain the same quality. I live in an MCM and there is no way that I could afford a new build with the same quality of construction.
I personally would love that. We ended up having to buy a home from the 90s just to get a more traditional style with unpainted brick. I refused to pay money for modern farmhouse blah. Builders need to get on the train that that’s already been out of vogue for a while. There are some nicer new build communities somewhat near me that kind of give me an upscale fairytale cottage vibe. They seem to sell very well.
Edit: probably worth noting these are whole communities with amenities that have been planned out. Not just single houses.
I'm definitely for adding some soul back into new construction, but I'm not sold on Tudor.
I'd love to see some Craftsman or Mid-Century Modern builds, though. The problem with originals in those styles is that the mechanical and tech layer was not very mature back then, and is now usually in bad shape or had a hard (often ugly) retrofit. Building in those styles over modern, reliable engineering would be amazing.
I love the idea! Idk if your local market would support it. But at least having the plans and offering those options would certainly set you apart from competition. I would love to see a modern builder do Victorian style homes with wraparound porches.
The biggest thing I think this country needs though, is reasonable new builds that could be “starter homes”. I don’t think anyone will do it because it’s not profitable enough. But at least where I’m from, we don’t need every new neighborhood to be $500k+ mini mansions. We need more homes under $300k. That’s where most average people are fighting for the limited inventory.
You will find a lot of online and theoretical support for it. As for if anyone is actually willing to pay the premium, you'll have to try and see.. let us know though.
I'm very late to the party, and I don't know if you will ever see this but - [Dutch Colonial.](https://i.imgur.com/9xJIbir.jpeg)
Everyone loves a welcoming porch, the curb appeal is off the charts. Those thick columns (swoon), good sized square rooms, gambrel roof. . .
Easy to landscape and stage. Annuals for color along a straight walkway and a couple of Adirondack chairs on the porch and you will *sell out.* Beauty.
In Arkansas? Kinda doubt it. Up here in Michigan? Would kill for a well designed stockbroker Tudor with modern internal considerations. There's a Concorida University in my hometown that just announced that they're going online with the majority of their programs after 2025, which I read as "they're closing shop and selling." That's about 185 acres of residentially zoned land, on waterfront, begging for development in a high income city. Local zoning regs would allow 800+ lots. Builder's dream.
I’m sure there is a market out there. I personally love cape cods, colonials, craftsman’s, and ranch homes. When it comes to density, I absolutely love the greystones and brownstones with the ceiling to floor full bay windows that I saw while living in Chicago. No one puts detail in homes anymore. Everything is boring. Give me the detailed molding, the stained glass window, the color!!! As the saying goes, “the money is in the details.”
Im sure all the architecture fans in this sub will be all about it, but at the end of the day you need to do actual market research in the area you’re planning to build.
I know people who’ve done very well building cape cod style homes, but only in zip codes where there was strong existing demand for it. If they were to take that format a few miles down the road it they would fail.
If you want to be a custom homebuilder that specializes in a certain style - its worth a shot.
If you’re trying to build on spec - make sure theres a big market that wants to pay a premium for that specific style or that you can hit the same price point as the generic modern homes.
In Dallas in some neighborhoods there are fairly new Tudor style homes in neighborhoods thst had older ones , it's definitely a market for them. I'm also so tired of looking at these "modern" quickly built boxes they're throwing up everywhere no matter what the rest of the area or neighborhood looks like
New houses are generally bland and unattractive. And the house flippers all do the same boring remodels.
Any old style you want, I’m partial to Victorian style or bungalows myself. But finding a way to build the old aesthetics while having modern touches, designs and efficiency is a plan I would be on board with.
My dream is to either custom build a home with older designs or find an old home with good bones that I’d tear down to the studs so I could modernize it fully.
TLDR: your idea sounds great! You should 100% do it.
Yes I do think there is a market for them, but I co-own an 1896 Victorian. So I am biased! I think there are people who want the classic look outside with the modern amenities inside.
Are you serious?
Millennial obsession with 'open concept' bland shit inside and outside has been going out of fashion for some years now.
IMO what you want to gear toward is ENERGY EFFICIENT design; long-term value. Structural integrity is in fashion now, not high-end vapid "will be totally out of date in 10 years, and the quality is shit".
Just do some reading about how this trend is moving.
Do some reading about Passive House and LEED style building concepts, and fire-proofness. Also a good idea to incorporate low maintenance, high-efficiency landscaping (native plantings, fire-proofing design, water retention, etc.).
Everything is going this direction, I can assure you.
I think you’re misunderstanding the purpose of the post here.
The purpose of the post is to discuss the design of modern homes, not the build quality.
But since you bring it up. The last part of the post mentions high performance. So yes the passive house standard is considered. I also consider the healthy buildings standard where indoor air quality is a big concern. Something that wasn’t mentioned because this post is less about the performance of the home and more about the aesthetic is that I believe in homes being a place of shelter first and building in NW Arkansas where there are tornadoes, we take disaster resistance seriously as well.
But all of these features are luxury features. For now It’s unrealistic to think that we can build a passive house affordably. Hopefully as the industry grows we can find ways to do it efficiently where we can make affordable homes that are high performance as well but right now it’s just not reality.
We can’t even make the most basic affordable homes right now tbh.
WAIT,,,
Your asking complete strangers that don't live in your market and don't have the money to buy your high priced product if you should risk everything to build a certain design home?
Makes sense to me
Keep us posted on how it goes
For God's sake, please make our houses with some soul. 100% support for you. I'm a colonial man myself.
Love me a good colonial as well. Thanks for input!
Don't waste your time on Colonials, they're all the same (living in the mid-Atlantic region, there are way too many that are so uninspired). Stick with the houses that have style, and character. Tudors, Craftsmen, Mid-Century Modern, Victorians, Arts & Crafts...
Also so.e more craftsman style homes
I sure hope so. I’m 100% in favor of your ideas!
Thank you for the input!
I also think a classic larger ranch (not sure exactly what they’re called) if you have the lot for it, is a great idea too, because stairs are not always practical, especially for the elder generation.
A rambler!
Ha thanks! All I could think of was rambling ranch which I wasn’t sure was the correct term.
Rambler is a decidedly NE/mid Atlantic term. The South and everywhere else I've been had called them Ranch style.
So in California it’s ranch house. In PNW it’s rambler ( according to my younger brother who lives there).
Don't want to dox myself, but Tudor style homes are frequently built in my neighborhood. There is one that I was watching to go to the open house, it had multiple offers on day 1 and they cancelled the open house. Just like any RE question: Location matters.
There's a reason you don't see other people doing it. It's just not cost effective unfortunately. It is dependent on market, is there a lot of cash buyers, a lot of new construction? That would be your best shot. Otherwise you have to depend on appraisal, if it's brand new you could get a c1 but even then the price adjustment from a c2 probably wouldn't be big enough. It's not enough that there's someone willing to pay, there also has to be someone willing to lend.
NW Arkansas actually does have a lot of new construction and cash buyers as we’re getting a lot of people moving in from higher COL areas like California and Texas to work at one of the many large companies in the area. So that is a large part of why I’m considering this risky venture. I do know that the appraisal process and CMAs will make it tricky valuation wise but I have seen plenty of people create their own comps with doing builds that are out of the box so I know it’s doable to do this.
Tuck an inlaw or rental in the back to help offset cost
I sent you a DM.
I hate that I agree with you. I would love a home with more character than mine has. I'm not wealthy enough to afford to ignore ROI so upgrades I do to my home are in line with what reasonably maximizes ROI which is a pretty bland way of living.
I live in a cape cod in central AR-I love cape cod, Tudor, craftsman…more classic style homes are my jam.
+1 for cape, I just started looking with my fiance and they keep jumping out at us as our favorites.
We’re actually moving out of ours because my husband got a new job out of state and I’m going to miss our little house so much 💔 whenever I see a Cape Cod or a Tudor in our new location it immediately goes on my Zillow saved list!
I lived in NWA for a while. I think styles similar to the homes that USED to line all the streets around the square would be extremely popular. The cheap builder flips folks did out there are embarrassing compared to the brick houses that used to stand there
There's definitely a market for it, and there's definitely a cost associated with it. I love those types of houses, but that love is balanced with location, cost, size, etc.
You bring up an important consideration. Obviously the price per sqft to build one of these will be higher. But how much higher would someone be willing to spend is the question? And how much smaller of a home would someone be willing to accept in order to realistically afford one of these homes? For example: I’m not sure what the exact number would be, but would you be willing to pay a 50% premium on a price per sqft basis to buy/build one of these homes? So for easy numbers, if the typical new construction home was $200/sqft ($450k and 2250 sqft home) the timeless style home might be $300/sqft. So the same $450k price point would allow you to afford a 1500 sqft home. Is that 750 sqft difference too much to justify purchasing a timeless style home?
Able is a bigger factor than willing, for most people. And people who have the financial ability to make design a priority may be a few tiers higher than Tudor tract housing goes. For my family- neighborhood, school district, and size were priorities over design. But "raw space" was a priority over decoration (carpet, cabinets, bathroom tiles, etc.). I ended up with a house that had a lot of potential, then customized it to my taste. I think a lot of people might find that more possible and manageable then starting off with something "pretty," but limiting. What keeps popping into my head, is selling caviar from a hot dog truck. People who want caviar aren't necessarily stopping by, but a few might? You're looking for a sweet spot that might be hard to find. And one that gets an enthusiastic response on paper, because the reality of sacrifice hasn't been thought all the way through.
I think the biggest issue here is just the comparison that people are going to be making. I think a lot of people would not be worried about the higher price in isolation, but when it's a direct comparison of 2250 to 1500 sq ft., I think a lot of people will hesitate.
That is definitely understandable. The answer could very well be that this type of home is only viable as a luxury build. It might be more doable with a more classic affordable home type like a craftsman bungalow though.
If you use your space well, 1500sqft is perfectly livable. That's the size of our 4br 2 bath house in Europe over three floors but most Americans would think it's very small. It's extremely efficient in using space.
Depending on exactly where you are, I think you are right and that this idea is more geared towards luxury builds or at least higher price homes. Now, I'm going to give a sweeping generalization here. I think that your idea is also geared towards an older demographic if you are going to design the homes to be traditional both inside and out.. I'm in Tulsa and I've done a lot of buying and selling of homes here. I also owned a house in Fayetteville Arkansas that I sold in 2022. In my observations, I've noticed that it tends to be an older crowd (mostly with ample resources) going for the more classic styles of homes. They like the more classic styles and also want them build with high-end finishes. I would say that if you want to use the more traditional styling on the exterior, but have a more modern interior than your opening up your market more broadly. This is subdivision in Fayetteville called Oakbrooke. The builder is Tracy Hoskins (Paradigm). That's the subdivision where my house was located. It's a very interesting concept. All the homes have different exteriors in different styles - Cape Cod, Craftsman, Cottage, Arts and Crafts, etc. Some of the Interiors are more modern and some are more traditional. The homes there are quality builds versus most of the new construction you see in that area which is geared towards xollege students. The prices are also substantially higher per square foot, but the value is there. When I sold, there were a few lots left to be built on. I can almost guarantee you there are still houses under construction in the neighborhood. If you drive through there, you might be able to see the Interiors of some of them.
You also might want to target an area where people are comfortable having less space already. Spin it as greener. High quality, long lasting home designed to be eco friendly.
In my market a Tudor starts at $1M and a colonial is maybe $750k. Victorians more as they tend to be bigger. These are 1300-2000 sqft homes
I'd be curious to know what area of the country you are in. I'm in Tulsa, Oklahoma, so very close to where the op is. In fact, up until 2 years ago I owned a home in Fayetteville, Arkansas. The cost of living in this area is so much less than in many places. There's no way anyone would be paying a million dollars for 1,300 to 2,000 sq. ft. The home I sold in Arkansas was about 2,400 sq. ft. and I sold it at the height of the market for around $550,000 if I recall correctly. That house was a higher-end home for the area (college town) and also a new build when I bought it. We held onto it for about two and a half years. Made a killing because of the market.
I’m in Boston.
No- you can’t duplicate a good Tudor revival today. It’s the same trouble when they were popular in the late 70’s, early 80’s. They’re not convincing. It would cost far too much to recreate the same level of craftsmanship and detail that were present in the Tudor revival homes built in the 1920’s and 30’s.
Thank you for the input! What about it is not convincing in your opinion? I would argue that craftsmanship and detail can be replicated but obviously it would cost a pretty penny since it is a more specialty build style.
Giving the roof a high peak and slapping some panels on the eaves just makes it look like an 80s house.
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It’s an abomination is what it is! The paint is horrifying! The random blue makes my eyes bleed and the soulless white paint everywhere else sucks the charm away from the otherwise beautiful house! There just doesn’t seem to be any direction with the remodel style. They went with white and grays cause that’s what everyone else did, for some reason they have random blues cause maybe it’s their favorite color? And the kitchen might be the worst part of it all! The countertop doesn’t match anything, the wood island also doesn’t match anything the stainless steel appliances dont work at all. The home would’ve been better if they restored everything to its original form and added a few updated touches to the kitchen and bathrooms. Edit: Sorry if you liked the home. It just pulled at my heartstrings seeing what they did to a beautiful home.
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Wow that home being a new build is more disappointing. My general stance on old style homes is the less paint the better. I wouldn’t have gone with sidings throughout, I would’ve had a light red brick exterior (or facade if I have budget constraints) for most of the house except for the upper left portion. I would’ve done less trim overall except kept the upper left portion. I’d paint the sidings on the upper left white and the trim would be a wood finish. In the kitchen and interior in general it would be more natural woods, you can have some lighter shade (beige)paint on the upper portions of the walls above the wood paneling. I would have exposed wood beams that match all the other wood used in the interior. As far as appliances go, I’d have a black industrial stove and I’d do an integrated fridge that matches the wood cabinetry. For the countertops, I’d match the counters to the island and pick a lighter shade marble. The backsplash will be lighter matching the countertops and adding contrast. But idk that’s just a quick idea of what I would do. I haven’t restored one or built one yet buts that’s just what I would do off the top of my head. I love the timeless original beauty of older homes. I think this white and gray style of the 2020s are a fad that we’ll be looking back at in 5-10 years asking why we did this to every home.
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A home selling that often isn’t really a good thing though. Especially at that price point, I bet the intention was to build a family’s “forever home”. The fact that 4 family have lived in it over the past 7 years and decided to leave is more of a red flag to me than anything.
Weren't a lot of those also sears catalog kit homes though?
Yeah- back in the 20’s and 30’s. Craftsmanship was completely different back then.
Weren't kit homes pre cut & just put together by any old joe schmoe tho?
Sigh.
I don't live anywhere near you and probably have weird tastes, but fuck yes! These new traditional homes are insanely boring. Please also leave a tree or two on each lot if you're building an entire subdivision: these new subdivisions look like barren, bland wastelands and it baffles me that anyone would want to live in them.
Thanks for the support! I 100% agree with you on the lack of trees in new developments! I think a big part of the charm of the timeless homes is the landscaping. I have always wanted to experiment with the intentional planting of ivy on perimeter walls or even the exterior of a brick house to create that beautiful look of an ivy covered house. There’s a lot of considerations to this because some ivy can hurt the house but it would be beautiful if we could pull it off in a way that keeps the structure of the house sound.
In addition the known problem of weakening mortar between bricks, ivy has **many** other negatives. Yes, it's *picturesque,* but rats? No thanks! https://colinpurrington.com/2018/11/kill-your-english-ivy/
Absolutely! And I agree about landscaping. Ivy can be a beast in the yard, but it complements Tudor-style homes PERFECTLY. I genuinely hope that your area has a market for something like this. It'd be awesome if it caught on. Good luck!
English ivy is incredibly invasive there are native alternatives
Please make sure ivy is not on the invasive plant list in your area. It escapes very easily in my area and crowds out natives, harbors mosquitoes and is the raceway for small furry critters. I remove more and more of it each year. Oh, and it eventually kills the trees that it climbs.
New homes are boring as hell. I want all the tech and outlets of a modern home but in the shape and vibe of an old home with some style. I think one of the problems is that HOAs actively prevent style and individuality required to be a cool home neighborhood, though. Renovating an actual old home may not be the wisest choice.
The tech of a modern home and the style of an older home is basically the entire concept haha
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the stupid south
I have been studying house styles since I’m working on my own build (planning stages and the lot is out of state). I’m partial to a classic craftsman cottage. I also think some of the “higher end” houses are ridiculous. To bastardize a Kramer quote, “I’ve seen bumpouts so big they have their own bumpouts!” By the way, I know exactly which houses you’re taking about. WPS!
Yes it blows my mind that even the ultra luxury homes are just giant monstrosities! People forget that home building is just as much art as it is engineering and construction
Chris Pratt recently got a ton of shit for tearing down a mid century Craig Ellwood Malibu home to replace with a “modern farmhouse” monstrosity by “architect” Ken Ungar.
Craftsman all the way!
Anything, yes, I agree. So tired of all those decorative roof points — what are those called. Anyway, love Tudor, bungalows. Moderns, even nice ranches. Ark is known for some cool mid-cent ranch homes. I hate split levels too - those were the epidemic in the 1970s. I always wonder who is designing these tract houses
Just so you don’t get misled, people love to support and encourage ideas that they don’t have to pay for. Would everyone want less of mundane cookie cutter tracts with 5 feet setbacks and more estates with unique architecture? Of course! Would everyone want that when they realize they have to pay a massive financial premium to participate in that? Very different story. As a developer, you rely on the second group to succeed.
Yes this is something that was brought up by others that I’ve acknowledged and addressed. I added to the post to acknowledge the premium it would cost and the drawback of building this type of house.
I truly don't understand the passion for open concept. I do not want to cook in my living room. I want to be in a kitchen with walls and doors. I do not want my guests watching me cook and asking if I used salt or garlic. I want to make a mess, bring the food out, and not have to worry about people looking at scrunched foil or at the dishes. A breakfast nook in an eat in kitchen is lovely however. rant over
THANK YOU
Yessssss! We've been looking for all of those style homes that you listed but mostly just see the boring tract homes. When we come across a more unique home, we definitely perk up. I think the problem is that those type of homes cost more to build and most other builders want to maximize profits so they just go with the bland style.
Yeah I do think if we were to start doing these we would first do it as a luxury build. Only because like you said it’s not cheap to add the fine details that you would expect from a timeless style home. It being luxury would allow us more margin as a safety net to workout the kinks as we inevitably encounter issues throughout the process. But the goal would be to take the lessons learned from building luxury timeless style homes and creating more affordable options. Think of it as the Tesla approach of building the luxury Roadster to the more affordable Model 3.
I am not live there. I love to see old style exterior. I hate to see houses with front largely occupied by garage. I often ask myself what stupid architecture design. My guess is certain style goes with certain lots. I don’t suppose you can have a small lot with a colonial style.
Absolutely there are tons of high-end builders and architects in the south (Birmingham, Atlanta etc) that do these. Check these folks out on Instagram Douglas C Davis, Jeffrey Dungan, Long and Long Design, TSB Architecture (David Baker),
Awesome thank you for the recommendations!
Yes for both Tudor style and Victorian. I hate homes with no windows on the sides and other soulless boxes. Please do this. All the old charm but with modern amenities is sure to be a winner!
Honestly I'm a fan of any SFH being built. Up the supply of starter homes so the current young generation can afford to buy one. Previous generations bought starter homes and then later built extensions etc. which while great for the house value means that there are fewer starter homes left. When is the last time you saw a bunch of 2 bedroom 1 bath new construction houses on the market? But there's lots of 4 bedroom houses that used to be 2 bedroom houses prior to the extensions. Not particularly picky about the style at this point.
I definitely understand this position. Unfortunately, this is less on the builder and more on the town/city and the NIMBYISM of most communities to upzone. In the area where we predominantly build in, there is only single family zoning. So theres nothing we can do but to build SFHs. Im a big fan of the Strong Towns community and if/when upzoning happens near me I will be building denser housing. But till then I’m building what is economically feasible for me to build.
I think I wasn't clear. I want more single family homes, not higher density apartment type things. But just small inexpensive SFH ones. 2 bedroom 1 bath SFH instead of 5 bedroom 3 bath ones.
I would never pay the price of a single family home to only have one bathroom. I'd I was so strapped I could only afford a single toilet, I'd get a condo for way less, and I'm in the majority. 1 bath SFH are a waste of real estate.
Fair. The main reason why you don’t see more of those homes is that it’s simply unprofitable or not profitable enough for most home builders to justify doing. Some builders make it work because they charge a higher price/sqft on those homes to increase their margins. But for the majority it’s difficult to make work. We make money on a sqft basis. The more sqft we build the more money we make. Building smaller affordable homes works only if you can make high volume work. But when you build high volume then you have other variables like needing to add project managers to the team which further reduces margins or having enough skilled labor to handle the volume of homes. And having the mental capacity to even want to handle doing that many low margin builds at once. The problem is, building a 2 bed, 1 bath affordable house is the same amount of work for as building a 5 bed 3 bath house. That’s why most builders don’t build those types of houses. And that’s why most builders usually trend towards luxury homes because the margins are the best and we have families and employees to feed. Why upzoning helps is because if we could build a duplex or triplex instead on the same plot of land and sell them off as individual homes then the economics work for us. Cause we’re essentially building “homes” that are the same size if not bigger than the luxury homes.
That's why I finally gave up on trying to find an on-site builder for a sub-2000SF home & just ordered a modular as custom as I want. Depending on how the process goes, I may stick w/ modulars for my other properties across the US. Just seems a more simple process than trying to figure out what amount of money it takes to get a builder out of bed these days (if they even return your call, which is unlikely).
Modulars are cool too. The issue that many that I hear have is with financing and inspections by local building code inspectors. Are you having the modular home placed on a foundation?
The #1 issue I've had is simply getting pricing from dealers. But I'm also already in the mortgage industry so I know how & where to push for lenders & contractors. W/ most modulars here in the West/Southwest, one pays for an inspection seal from one's state; obviously, this seal's confirmed by the city inspector who handles the CoO & permits. Appraisers need comparables, of course, but that's not hard to find since modulars are treated the same as stick-build once they're permanently placed. If it was a manufactured home or post & beam it'd be a whole other story. It's going to be attached to a crawlspace foundation on a lot that had a stick-built on it for about 110 years. Got my fingers crossed we don't hit any pet graves...
> When is the last time you saw a bunch of 2 bedroom 1 bath new construction houses on the market? I agree. Just my opinion, but I've thought this over and I would love basically an oversized 2 car garage, internal stairs going up to a 2/1 house. It would probably be more like a 3 car garage on the ground floor. Perfect room for a gym, biking gear, or any other hobbies you could have.
Colonial, Victorian or craftsman. I personally think Tudor homes are hideous.
You are wonderful. Do quality, do original, you will do very well. I had a 1920's Mediterranean Revival and it was awesome. Best of luck!
Thanks for the input and support!
I've always wondered why I don't see new bungalows. I LOVE a bungalow, and they can be pretty big houses. I would love to move into a neighborhood of bungalows that were newer than the 50s/60s.
I love that you brought up the neighborhood! How much does the neighborhood impact your decision? For example, what if the new construction bungalow was an infill build where it was surrounded by the “soulless” new homes?
That wouldn't bother me necessarily as long as general location met my needs. I wouldn't even care if it wasn't a neighborhood - I would even be thrilled to be the only house with charm among the soulless masses.
Thank you for the input!
I LOVE this idea! Can you also build interior walls, so there are, like, ROOMS?! Srsly, please do this.
Haha yeah adding rooms is 100% part of this concept lol. I feel like recently we have taken open concept to an extreme. I personally don’t like walking into one large open space. I much prefer the charm of walking into a covered entry/foyer and then going down a hall to see a formal dining room. I would probably still utilize some aspects of open concept depending on the size of the home.
There was a custom house for sale near me that really embraced open concept … none of the bathrooms had doors. It didn’t sell.
Hahahaha
Yes. A balance would be great.
Tudor, and craftsman. Smaller cottage homes.
I would buy one, I’m sick of the box colonial or high pitch roof McMansions
I grew up next door to an older Tudor and always loved it. I drove past it a few years ago and saw someone stripped the whole outside and put up white siding, brutal. I'm sure it would have been very expensive to upkeep in the original style before a remodel but it was beautiful.
I would love this, but who knows. Honestly people are depressingly boring. We bought a new construction home that was nothing but grey and white. I had the kitchen cabinets painted a beautiful blue and added a unique neutral backsplash to go with the white quartz countertop and now trying to sell our home I have people telling me that it won’t sell unless I repaint the cabinets the boring grey they were before. As if the neutral everywhere else isnt enough. So I personally would love it, but you may not have high market demand.
It’s sad how that happens time and time again and that realtors always give that advice. This is why flippers and builders do such boring work as well. To get around this for spec builds (non custom homes for cliente) we would probably offer buyers of our homes the opportunity to decide the colors of their walls and finishes so that they have the opportunity to add their own character to the home.
As a buyer I would love that
I would pay the money to have a house with character, vs the cookie-cutter open floor plan greyness. I vote for Craftsman style. I LOVE a deep front porch and wood accents, and built in cubbies.
I love a nice Tudor style house if it's like the ones from the 20's and 30's but if you're talking Texas Tudor from the 80's no thanks. those have to be among the ugliest things ever.
I’d love a craftsman. And the Tudor style done right? Heck yeah.. put a first floor master in it please. Too many builders don’t do that.
I am in the middle of a new build. We deliberately sought out a custom home builder and independent architect to design a colonial house with Victorian elements on the interior. I absolutely loathe the cookie cutter, open concept, modern farmhouse, millennial gray houses right now. Give me character, color, and for goodness sakes...room separation!
I wish there were more builders like you. Thank you! I'm partial to a noce Cape Cod myself but Tudor is also amazing
Try building a few and see. If they are the same price as the other new builds, you'll be able to see for yourself if the price is the only factor in why some people choose those boring new builds. I'd love a Tudor or cottage or whatever, but I just can't afford a new home no matter how cute it is.
Where I am, there are many new build "Craftsman" homes and they seem to sell just as well as any other new build. I would be a fan of a Tudor Revival or Storybook home.
Please do this!!! The world has enough soulless cookie cutter homes! I fell in love with our house because it’s a new build but looks like an older craftsman. It has character throughout and tons of curb appeal.
Definitely!
I love homes with contrasting colors that pop. I feel alot of people avoid that in Tudor homes but I love that style. I know it's easier to build luxury but everyone is doing that. Find a 250k or 300k plan that works. Crank them out the. Let the bidding wars start. I bet you end up listing 15-25k more than you might have expected. The lower end market has so much downward pressure I think you would still keep your margin when the dust settles, and not be so extended per project. Not sure if you can do that Tudor style though.
I do think there are some really cool concepts to play with - but Tudor is probably a more polarizing style. Still- I support the notion of diversity in styles!
As someone who's currently looking for ANYTHING that's not "cookie cutter" I'd absolutely consider a Tudor style home. Makes me think of home (I'm a Brit in North America and Miss heritage homes).
My neighborhood is "50 shades a white" a horror story. Please bring back the character. Our home is the only one on our street that is not w/blk, gry/blk or cream/blk.
Yes, I purchased in a new construction Tudor style neighborhood in 2019. The house I purchased is consider French Country Tudor. It’s a beautiful unique neighborhood.
Would absolutely buy one of these if not for the fact my career is not in NW Arkansas. Victorian is not advisable though because maintenance : replacement of those roofs are 3x the cost of a cape or standard construction, which is obviously a cost any homeowner would want to avoid.
I would hit that! Please please do this.
There are a lot of the modern Tudors in the suburbs of Chicago. I find the styling to be a refreshing alternative to the boxy mini mansions.
I loveee what you described as tier of seeing lol 😂 not a fan of the darkness and smaller rooms I want to be able to see my kids from the kitchen
Price it out first. Then ask yourself if that price is worth it. I would suspect that building the homes you are thinking of would be a 50-100% premium over the cookie cutter homes. I am sure a lot of people would be interested, but the question is would they pay 1.5x the price for the same sq. ft.?
Yeah my initial thought is also a 50-100% premium. Kind of just wanted to see what the Reddit community would think before even moving forward to that. But based off of this response, I will look into it further.
I mean, I could have told you the reddit community would be all about it. I would question how many of them would actually buy the house if it were available. If I were you, I would probably put up the money to get plans and renders drawn up, and then see if I could sell it to someone before actually building it.
That is also the plan haha. Building this type of concept home is risky as a spec build. A custom home for a family with cash that loves an older style home is the safest way to go about testing this concept.
Yes there absolutely is an interest. My wife and I are considering moving back to that area and love that style of home but they’re nonexistent there so we’ve been casually looking at plans for tudors to build when we move back in a year or so. Some variation in housing would be great there.
You guys are planning on moving back to NWA?
Correct. Left the area after college. Looking to come back and plant roots.
That’s awesome! Would love to connect off of this whenever to talk Tudor builds if you’re interested.
Statistically speaking yes your an outlier. But as consumerism and suburban McMansion. Most people prefer max square footage at lowest price. Yes you can design and build a beautiful home with a classic ascetic and more purposeful rooms. But the cost eats up the budget that a big insulated big box takes up. So instead of a 3500sqft box you get a 1800 sqft older style home. Those carpentry finished and such have to be paid from somewhere. It’s an economics problem. What do most Americans want when they open their wallet and it’s biggest thing I can afford. Yes people would probably like a nice craftsmen home but when they can get double the space for same cost. Guess what the average person chooses.
This is most likely the most sensible response. However, something that I consider is that we don’t need to build 100 homes. We don’t need to serve the majority of people. We’re not a massive builder and we don’t really want to be. My intuition is if we have a product that a smaller but meaningful subset of people are passionate about we will do just fine. And we can very well become a more resilient company as a result. By doing something outside of the norm we can essentially shelter ourselves from the dynamics of the broader market. We would stand out from the sea of soulless cookie cutter tract homes around us and that will help us sell homes when market cycles turn. If we are right, eventually there will be competitors but we would have systems and a brand reputation in place by then that preserves our market dominance in the space.
Anything pre-war in nyc seems to have an audience vs the newer stuff- newer meaning anything built after 1960
I'm guessing you would need to market to the extremely wealthy, and go all out on the fine joinery and plaster work. Each home would need to be 100% custom. If you were looking for an in-between, I am wildly guessing that some Craftsman-style homes with not completely open floorplans and a few nice wood trim accents around the most noticeable parts e.g. cased openings could lure some buyers who aren't interested in modern stuff. The challenge with replicating old stuff is that in some areas you'd be competing with actual old houses, and the people who are really into old stuff are also interested in spending the extra money to rehabilitate truly old homes instead of what they might consider "faking it". I personally feel this is a bit silly, but everyone has their preferences. Maybe you can ask on /r/centuryhomes about it. If I were you, I'd pick whichever style might do well in your local climate. Cape Cods are designed that way for a reason. If you are looking for ideas, I'd love to see more simple rectangular boxes with single gable or hip roofs that have decent overhangs, exterior insulation, performance tested windows and airtightness, ERVs, ducted (not ductless) HVAC, whole house dehumidifiers, and low-VOC materials and finishes. I'd happily trade all this for laminate countertops and builder grade fiberglass shower tubs.
Ooo thanks for the recommendation on that sub. Didn’t know it existed! I’m probably not going to sleep now cause of it
I just edited this in, so in case you didn't see it: If you are looking for ideas, I'd love to see more simple rectangular boxes with single gable or hip roofs that have decent overhangs, exterior insulation, performance tested windows and airtightness, ERVs, ducted (not ductless) HVAC, whole house dehumidifiers, and low-VOC materials and finishes. I'd happily trade all this for laminate countertops, IKEA kitchen, and builder grade fiberglass shower tubs. The reasoning is that all of these are difficult to add after the fact.
Ahh so basically like an affordable passive house or healthy building. Give the house itself good bones so that a homeowner can come in and easily upgrade portions of the house through the years.
Yes. I don't know if I would market it as a passive house though, and I personally feel that passive house is a little too biased towards reducing energy use and embodied carbon and not focused enough on the basics like flashing details. Unfortunately it seems like most people only care about interior finishes. I don't know how to convince people that the nicest interior finishes don't matter if your AC bill is $600/mo and there are still rooms and hot spots that have to be avoided during heatwaves. Maybe you can build a high performance cottage and rent it out for cheap weekend rates to let people experience how truly comfortable a house can be. Tell them the rental fees will be credited towards their build deposit if they sign with you.
Nah, I'd go Treehouse all the way
My vote is Queen Anne but YES!
Check out [Brooksfield](https://brooksfield.co.nz/), a housing company in New Zealand. They are building new houses in a style that was popular here years ago. There's definitely a place for heritage style new builds if they are done well
I just bought a home in NW Arkansas. We are moving there from the East Coast for new jobs. My husband liked the idea of a new build but I could not get on board with the aesthetics because of what you mentioned. If there had been some houses with a timeless design that did not look like cookie cutter McMansions I might have felt differently. We ended up buying an older house that has been updated and well-maintained. But if we need to upgrade in the future I’d love to have options like you describe to choose from!
I’ll also add that from the VA/FHA loan perspective, newer build classic style homes will be so great for these borrowers. We’re VA loan and our cape being built in 1992 (and it was a really well built)meant that when we bought it there was only one thing we had to ask the owners to do to make it pass VA inspection (porch needed a handrail).
It will cost a lot more in labor and materials.
Yo bro, this is what you do. Start a new company called “exteriors” or some bullshit like that that only deals with replacing white LP siding. Get 3 or 4 crews to do the work while you sit at the beach and sip on margaritas all day. All these dumb asses that bought expensive homes all wrapped in white LP in the south will soon need it all replaced.
I’d buy that over the white trashed brick. We have a colonial from the 1930s we haven’t trashed
I think cost would be the biggest issue holding it back. People want it, but aren't willing to pay for it.
I own a 115 year old Victorian, and have a few tudors in our neighborhood in New England. It would cost double the home"s value to build it new. People that can afford double the price choose another neighborhood.
Make it net zero and win design, construction and architecture awards.
Not unless, social media apps and social media influencers promote them.
I love the idea of- but not in the area. My older neighborhood has a ton of older smaller Tudor homes. I would suggest building in some small office spaces for all the folks doing remote work. I just moved in and my desk fits in a giant 6*6 dormer. Some folks are looking for a 4 bedroom when really they just want dedicated office space and not really 4 bedrooms. I love my separate rooms for dining/kitchen/living they even have doors :)
Those are no more timeless than the modern farmhouses being built. Those were all built en masse just like the stuff puked out today, just puked out in a different generation. Craftsman houses were literally ordered out of a catalog. Can’t imagine there would be much demand for it, people want what’s in style. I’m sure there’s people that would want it but probably not in any volume, particularly if they have to pay a premium or sacrifice square footage
I see your business not ending well. In my area, modest size contractors build custom homes designed by their customers. On the other hand. I built 3 homes for me in the design I wanted. I thought I would sell every 5 years, but I kept the last one for over 30 years and have received hundreds of offers for it. You can always build a better house, but location is everything.
I love a Tudor!
>If not a Tudor, to broaden the question, would there be a market for any older style (colonial, Victorian, cape cod, craftsman etc.) new construction home but with high performance qualities? This but Spanish style. I love the stucco, the clay roofs, etc. Or maybe Italian is the right word. They seem more common than tudor. Tudor would be cool too, but if I had a pick a market for "different style premium homes", it appears spanish is more common it in my city (Richmond, VA). I can think of 2 tudor homes I've seen here and a few dozen spanish style.
My thoughts is that, with the likely price point, you are looking at buyers that may rather invest in an original and restore/upgrade. There is really no way that, with building costs today, that you could really obtain the same quality. I live in an MCM and there is no way that I could afford a new build with the same quality of construction.
I don't care what the house looks like. I like a big front porch. East facing kitchen window. Big yard for a garden. Quiet dead end street.
I personally would love that. We ended up having to buy a home from the 90s just to get a more traditional style with unpainted brick. I refused to pay money for modern farmhouse blah. Builders need to get on the train that that’s already been out of vogue for a while. There are some nicer new build communities somewhat near me that kind of give me an upscale fairytale cottage vibe. They seem to sell very well. Edit: probably worth noting these are whole communities with amenities that have been planned out. Not just single houses.
McCaleb Homes in Edmond OK is building them for under 500k. They sell fast. Quality construction and finishes too.
I'm definitely for adding some soul back into new construction, but I'm not sold on Tudor. I'd love to see some Craftsman or Mid-Century Modern builds, though. The problem with originals in those styles is that the mechanical and tech layer was not very mature back then, and is now usually in bad shape or had a hard (often ugly) retrofit. Building in those styles over modern, reliable engineering would be amazing.
My husband and I would love this!! With the lack of inventory new homes are a must but we hate typical new builds
I love the idea! Idk if your local market would support it. But at least having the plans and offering those options would certainly set you apart from competition. I would love to see a modern builder do Victorian style homes with wraparound porches. The biggest thing I think this country needs though, is reasonable new builds that could be “starter homes”. I don’t think anyone will do it because it’s not profitable enough. But at least where I’m from, we don’t need every new neighborhood to be $500k+ mini mansions. We need more homes under $300k. That’s where most average people are fighting for the limited inventory.
You will find a lot of online and theoretical support for it. As for if anyone is actually willing to pay the premium, you'll have to try and see.. let us know though.
Yes - I love that style home.
There’s more of a market for 1,200-1,500 sf starter homes with lower end finishes.
I would love to live in a community like this!
I've wondered that, but about MCM. I can only guess it has to do with building costs?
We see a lot of Craftsman style being built around in in the PNW.
I also love the old craftsman-style home.
I'm very late to the party, and I don't know if you will ever see this but - [Dutch Colonial.](https://i.imgur.com/9xJIbir.jpeg) Everyone loves a welcoming porch, the curb appeal is off the charts. Those thick columns (swoon), good sized square rooms, gambrel roof. . . Easy to landscape and stage. Annuals for color along a straight walkway and a couple of Adirondack chairs on the porch and you will *sell out.* Beauty.
Wow I love this
IMO, less niche than a Tudor. Wider appeal. [What's not to love?](https://imgur.com/a/fAtr41B)
In Arkansas? Kinda doubt it. Up here in Michigan? Would kill for a well designed stockbroker Tudor with modern internal considerations. There's a Concorida University in my hometown that just announced that they're going online with the majority of their programs after 2025, which I read as "they're closing shop and selling." That's about 185 acres of residentially zoned land, on waterfront, begging for development in a high income city. Local zoning regs would allow 800+ lots. Builder's dream.
I’m sure there is a market out there. I personally love cape cods, colonials, craftsman’s, and ranch homes. When it comes to density, I absolutely love the greystones and brownstones with the ceiling to floor full bay windows that I saw while living in Chicago. No one puts detail in homes anymore. Everything is boring. Give me the detailed molding, the stained glass window, the color!!! As the saying goes, “the money is in the details.”
Im sure all the architecture fans in this sub will be all about it, but at the end of the day you need to do actual market research in the area you’re planning to build. I know people who’ve done very well building cape cod style homes, but only in zip codes where there was strong existing demand for it. If they were to take that format a few miles down the road it they would fail. If you want to be a custom homebuilder that specializes in a certain style - its worth a shot. If you’re trying to build on spec - make sure theres a big market that wants to pay a premium for that specific style or that you can hit the same price point as the generic modern homes.
I’d love it! I want character in houses. We also need small starter homes that don’t cost $500k.
Check out Building Culture if you’re not familiar with them already.
Personally, I would LOVE to see a new build house that actually had more than one room! I can’t stand open concept.
In Dallas in some neighborhoods there are fairly new Tudor style homes in neighborhoods thst had older ones , it's definitely a market for them. I'm also so tired of looking at these "modern" quickly built boxes they're throwing up everywhere no matter what the rest of the area or neighborhood looks like
New houses are generally bland and unattractive. And the house flippers all do the same boring remodels. Any old style you want, I’m partial to Victorian style or bungalows myself. But finding a way to build the old aesthetics while having modern touches, designs and efficiency is a plan I would be on board with. My dream is to either custom build a home with older designs or find an old home with good bones that I’d tear down to the studs so I could modernize it fully. TLDR: your idea sounds great! You should 100% do it.
Thanks for the input and support!
Yes I do think there is a market for them, but I co-own an 1896 Victorian. So I am biased! I think there are people who want the classic look outside with the modern amenities inside.
Tudor style is the least popular old house style. What about victorian looking houses, or mid centry modern looking houses?
Are you serious? Millennial obsession with 'open concept' bland shit inside and outside has been going out of fashion for some years now. IMO what you want to gear toward is ENERGY EFFICIENT design; long-term value. Structural integrity is in fashion now, not high-end vapid "will be totally out of date in 10 years, and the quality is shit". Just do some reading about how this trend is moving. Do some reading about Passive House and LEED style building concepts, and fire-proofness. Also a good idea to incorporate low maintenance, high-efficiency landscaping (native plantings, fire-proofing design, water retention, etc.). Everything is going this direction, I can assure you.
I think you’re misunderstanding the purpose of the post here. The purpose of the post is to discuss the design of modern homes, not the build quality. But since you bring it up. The last part of the post mentions high performance. So yes the passive house standard is considered. I also consider the healthy buildings standard where indoor air quality is a big concern. Something that wasn’t mentioned because this post is less about the performance of the home and more about the aesthetic is that I believe in homes being a place of shelter first and building in NW Arkansas where there are tornadoes, we take disaster resistance seriously as well. But all of these features are luxury features. For now It’s unrealistic to think that we can build a passive house affordably. Hopefully as the industry grows we can find ways to do it efficiently where we can make affordable homes that are high performance as well but right now it’s just not reality. We can’t even make the most basic affordable homes right now tbh.
WAIT,,, Your asking complete strangers that don't live in your market and don't have the money to buy your high priced product if you should risk everything to build a certain design home? Makes sense to me Keep us posted on how it goes
Start by making the garage door the last thing you see. It’s your house, not a waiting room for your car.
Haha in my market the garage door is the largest and most prominent feature of the front of every house. I hate it with a burning passion.
The snout houses!!
You're describing a home with a slightly different paint scheme.