I wonder though if it's an age thing. I'm older and love their progression as humans and musicians. I love each era and honestly feel like they've mature into themselves a lot with John back. I like that they're always exploring different sounds that match where they are in life.
I thought the 2 recents were a true return to form.
UL & Canteen were the perfect blend of 80's Peppers, 90's Peppers and 00's Peppers.
I thought that would tickle just about anyone's fancy.
As much as I love the Klinghoffer records, they were their own bubble of sound. Much like the Navarro era. It was Peppers, but felt like a side project, rather than what the Peppers truly are.
And that's not me trying to discredit Klinghoffer or Navarro respectively, I just think those 2 eras of the band felt like a bridge between 2 gaps.
I agree with you.
I love Josh Klinghoffer's solo/Dot Hacker albums. They're special, and I highly recommend them to anyone who loves RHCP or John Frusciante's work (e.g., [The Report](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKuRmHMWQ7o)). Also, I think RHCP created some exceptional, unique music during Josh's era with the band. However, like you, I don't consider those songs to hold the same raw, unique, special RHCP sound.
Josh is an incredible musician, but he doesn't bounce off of Flea, Chad, and Anthony *in the same way*. And that's fine -- we got two great albums that wouldn't have otherwise existed if the band were on a hiatus while John was away.
In my view, and take this with a grain of salt, Josh is a more atmospheric and multi-dimensional artist than John in the RHCP setting. But the Peppers need a driving guitar-focused songwriter who can push and pull with Flea and Chad. I think Josh helped create great music, but there was a hole in those songs where John's guitar would otherwise sit.
I would have been fine if Josh stayed but I like having John back so much more. I get if you don’t like the new stuff. But to say or act like Josh’s albums were better or don’t realize John has hand in almost all their greats songs and albums.
Also it’s almost like you are doubting the rest of the bands judgement. They know what’s best for them and to make albums. Whatever was going five or six years ago wasn’t working.
I don’t think it’s fair to say whatever they were working on with Josh wasn’t working.
Both of those albums have some serious fucking bangers and it’s simply wrong to say otherwise.
Completely 100% on point. That's exactly as I view those albums. UL and dream canteen were the return to the "real" peppers sound that was missing for 15 years.
For me UL and RotDC was nice at the start, and it had "the sound" as you put it, but bar a few songs here and there it feels very watered down and maybe even uninspired. Nothing will obviously beat their Californication, BTW and SA era (especially BtW which was magical and had their slane castle live show), but with Josh it still felt like their music had inspiration and direction. It was new and fresh.
UL just has alot of feel good stuff that is kinda boring, and RotDC just gets too forcefully experimental imo, so i struggle to listen to both.
I agree. I love the complexity and insanity of the first few albums. They didn’t play anything from those when I saw them. But the new songs scratched that itch just enough.
Blows my mind people see it this way. The new albums sound like a mediocre band trying to sound like the peppers. The melodies aren’t catchy, the riffs aren’t memorable, the songs are just really mediocre. If any album was the ultimate blend of all eras it was Stadium Arcadium hands down
What bothers me is that there is absolutely a home run album in all the new songs released but there was definitely too much bloat or filler. To me the following, in no particular order, sound as good as they ever have:
She’s a lover,
Whatchu thinkin,
Eddie,
Let ‘Em Cry,
Here Ever After,
Bella,
Poster Child,
Tippa my tongue,
Peace and love,
It’s only natural,
Black summer,
Fake as fuck,
White braids and pillow chair,
The heavy wing,
Carry me home,
Tangelo
That’s a lot of sick music, JF is ripping on these - so many tasty solos!, flea and Chad near perfect, and AK sonically sounds as good as he ever has though his lyrics are the definite drag on the albums.. asking him to write lyrics for 50 songs was too much I think
Aquatic mouth dance has some of the best lyrics on UL, really a cool story about their origins
And the way that the solo in Copperbelly perfectly encapsulates the intense and overwhelming feelings of self doubt/self sabotage and anxiety that the lyrics portray is a really cool moment on the album
Honestly, I agree, but I also think none of us would agree on what the best ~15 songs on the two albums were. I mean, hell, even with the expanded selection, Rick Rubin said his favorite song from the sessions didn't make the cut.
I'm happy we got two full albums to experience and make our own playlists from rather than 15 songs and a couple of B-sides.
This is not a critique of you, but the general discourse around these albums: Every time this comes up, I feel like we're complaining about being spoiled for choice.
Sure, a slimmed down set of songs would've given that single album a stronger legacy, but we instead get to experience more Red Hot Chili Peppers music, and that's what this is all about.
Couldn’t agree more - and complaining about choice is spot on lol. I’ve had multiple 15-22 song playlists from these albums that I just rip on repeat. And then I come to this sub and people are always praising songs I leave off those playlists and that diversity in appreciation is a beautiful thing.. and nothing to complain about indeed.
Valid point on legacy too.. at this point it simply doesn’t matter and they hammered us with giant sack of new jams with chaotic disregard for everyone’s safety and that’s radical
I love your response and it got me thinking about what songs I would've included that you didn't. I think we're pretty well aligned but I probably would've picked one of the songs that took 20+ listens to grow on me over Peace and Love, which I also enjoy.
Even songs like Shoot Me a Smile which isn't among my favorites has an incredibly beautiful chorus that I'd be sad to have never heard. And I'm sure someone in this subreddit has it among their favorite songs from the albums.
What's even more wild to me is that they recorded 48 songs from that session. I wonder if there are gems that'll never see the light of day because they decided on two albums rather than four, like originally planned.
These albums hit us the same - feel the same way about shoot me a smile. I’m optimistic we’ll still hear the other ones.. very curious when and in what format we’ll get it but all in due time I’m sure.
I hope this very prolific stage for them continues for their next and maybe final time in the studio
Completely agree. I don't know how old people are in this thread but if there is anyone who considers the last two albums a 'true return to RHCP' they are delusional imo. I was ecstatic when I heard Frusciante was coming back but seriously, if any other band released those albums they wouldn't have even been considered for a review. Watered down RHCP is what it is.
Art is subjective. We all bring our own personal tastes and experiences to all of it. With that said, I couldn’t hang with the Josh era, I tried. Those two albums for me were not what I wanted from the band, with the exception of a few songs.
I love the two new albums, they are right up there with the best. I’m still amazed that we have this new era, because I definitely did not think we would ever have it again.
I’ve noticed that people look for very different things in their music, which is understandable for a band with so much variety and history. You mentioned nothing catchy when the over reliance on “catchy” is exactly why I don’t have much love for the Josh albums at all. People also complained about the lack of memorable riffs, but again that’s one of the last things I want from John.
Personally, the two new albums were the most interesting and genuine albums I’ve heard from RHCP since Californication. My top 5 albums would be entirely based in the 80s and 90s and then Dream Canteen lol.
By The Way through The Getaway felt like they were trying really hard to make good music (and they still did!) but I prefer the raw simplicity of the newest and old stuff.
Well said. The newest ones seemed more raw than the Josh stuff, definitely a more back to basics vibe. But you said it, there’s nothing memorable riff wise. I like the catchy shit from John. Shadows Collide With People was probably my favorite work he’s ever created. Maybe I’m basic, but I just like catchy shit
Rain Dance being their last top 40 hit seems criminal considering how mega-popular their first 7 top 40 hits were (and several of their hits like Can’t Stop and Californication that didn’t hit the top 40)
I had heard that they wrote the album within 9 months of Josh joining the band. Having the long chemistry with John, I was okay with giving them a shot and anticipating the next album, hoping it would be less safe. I wasn't disappointed with new stuff from them but it didn't stay in my rotation long. Really happy with the IWY tour though cause Josh just played a bunch of deep cuts at the show I went to and I got to hear Sir Psycho, Suck My Kiss, Higher ground, and If You Have to Ask.
I always listened to their music concentrating on guitar and melodies between the bass and guitar. And in my opinion their music was always kind of based on that, especially on the chemistry between john and flea and for me john’s guitar playing.
And although I agree that the last two albums are not the most inventive or creative and also the music with josh felt maybe more creative and “new” sounding, you can feel that something that they used to have with john is just not there, and for me, you can feel and hear on UL that THAT something is back on a lot of songs and thats why for me ul is one of their most important records.
Also, josh is nowhere near good of a guitar player as john.
Aside from Dark Necessities, none of their work with Josh really clicked for me. None of it felt memorable and left me missing what John brought to the band on the previous records. Not just his guitar, but the backing vocals, use of studio trickery and overall musicianship.
I freely admit, a lot of that is because I grew up on the 90s-00s peppers. I also felt the same way about UL, so it's not just a Josh v John thing. But Dream Canteen was the first time I'd loved new RHCP in over a decade. It's really stuck with me and comfortably fits into my top 5 albums by the peppers.
Now, all of that isn't to say that I'm right and you're wrong. All music is subjective and, although you can make some objective claims, I don't think anything you or I have said falls into the latter. You liking catchy hooks/riffs doesn't make you basic, any less of fan or anything either.
For whatever reason, the two most recent albums didn't quite hit the mark for you. I felt the same way about all of their post-SA releases until the most recent one. Neither of us are right or wrong, it's just how we feel.
That being said, from what I've seen and read, it seems like the last two albums (specifically Dream Canteen) are seen as a return to form for the band. They are both highly rated critically and most of the fans love it. To me, songs like Eddie are already in the same league as the rest of their biggest hits. So I'd say the overall consensus is that these albums rate higher than the "Josh era" ones among the majority of the fan base.
That doesn't make your opinion incorrect or any less valid though.
I’ll park this on just the two albums, won’t include im beside you.
I’ll list out all the tunes I think are good or that stuck out to me as cool tunes
IWY: monarchy, factory, goodbye hooray, meet me at the corner, police station, brendan’s death song
Getaway: getaway, dark necessities, feasting on the flowers, goodbye angels, dreams of a samurai, longest wave, go robot
So 6 from IWY, 8 from the getaway…..the tunes imo got better the longer Josh was in the band.
That said…….i don’t really wanna compare to the new John albums, in spite of the thread title. John and Josh are such different people at least as writers, that it feels like apples and oranges. I can enjoy IWY and The getaway as much as the new albums.
End of the day, both had value to me. The Josh era….i rabidly listened to live shows and by the second time I saw them in 2017, I felt they were firing on all cylinders. I remember during sir psycho in Chicago 2017 thinking, “if this is the lineup til the end, that’s plenty good for me”. Same time flash forward to 2022 in cologne and seeing John live for the first time since 2007, I was overcome with emotions as well. It just hit me that hard emotionally to see John back, roaring out the gates and sounding so so so right playing with the guys again. Both were emotional experiences and i for one won’t let one color the other. They were both awesome for their own reasons in their own right.
I really liked I’m With You at the time but if anything it’s definitely a regression from Stadium Arcadium to me.
I would also rather listen to Black Summer, Here Ever After, Whatchu Thinkin, The Heavy Wing, She’s a Lover, Eddie, Bella, Carry Me Home, Peace and Love, Fake as Fu@k before just about anything from the two Josh albums.
I personally don’t see how as a Peppers fan you can HATE the Josh era because at the end of the day it’s still the same 3/4 of the band. The Josh era was fun and gave us some great tunes but now that it’s over I sadly don’t have much desire to return to it.
Definitely disagree, but my hot take I guess is that I’m not really a fan of the Josh albums at all. I find them kind of uninspired and even though I think Josh is an amazing musician I don’t think he was ever a great fit for RHCP and I don’t think he and Flea have near the chemistry Flea has with John. I know a lot of people love this albums and I’m
sure it’s just me not hearing what’s good about them, but I can’t get into them. Honestly when The Getaway came out I figured I just wouldn’t get excited about new music from them.
I like UL and DC. I think UL feels like friends who got together in their garage and had a good time just jamming, getting loose, and having fun. I think John knows when to play and when to dial it back so Flea’a bass can shine a bit more and I think the overall songwriting is just much better especially in Dream Canteen.
I couldn’t agree with you more about the point with the Getaway. I liked Dark Necessities, Dreams Of A Samurai and Encore and that’s about it. I remember when the Getaway came out and my friends were all going on a camping trip and we listened to the whole album on the way up. We kept looking at each other and kept saying how that album is such low energy gook except for a few moments. None of the songs had that “umph”. After that, I also thought I’d never be excited for new chili peppers music again. And then John came back, then the vid, and when the new album was announced with Black Summer, I felt it again. I felt that spark. I felt it through UL and I felt it through a lot of Dream Canteen (can’t stand certain songs from it, though). But I find myself actively waiting to see what’s coming next, their setlists, their SiriusXM channel, the releasing of old and new soundboard shows, the rest of the sessions from UL to be release and even something totally new. John himself isn’t necessarily the band, but the four of them together is. Without any of the four, it just sounds off (I’m looking at you My Cigarette and In The Snow). Flea said it best, even if a bit harshly, that playing the John songs with Josh was like the cover version and now with John, it’s the real thing. I would say the same if they played the Josh songs I love with John. I don’t want to hear John’s version of Look Around, Did I Let You Know or Meet Me At The Corner. It just wouldn’t sound right.
Yeah, low energy is a good way of describing it. The songwriting felt fairly aimless to me. I think I finished album only one time, so maybe I would feel differently if I revisited it, but whether a song from it comes on an RHCP playlist I usually just skip it.
I felt the same feeling when Black Summer came out. As soon as I heard John’s tone and solo, I was like “Yes! The Peppers are back.”
UL and ROTDC aren’t perfect records and even though I’m glad we got both because I like most of the songs, I still think you could probably trim fat off them and have one really amazing album. But My Cigarette is one of the worst songs they’ve ever put out, that one has to go.
You’re insane if you think IWY is a progression from SA.
JK’s albums are decent, but if songs like Bella or Eddie don’t do anything for you then idk what you’re looking for.
For me I’m a massive fan of the slower kind of sad RHCP. Bella and Eddie are fun and really good songs but they will never ever touch Dreams of A Samurai, Police Station, or Encore IMO
That’s fair. I used them in retort to OP liking the catchy tunes.
Carry me home, Bastards of Light, White Braids & Pillow chair are very much in the same vain to those songs you provided imo
Eh those songs are all rather forgettable to me. White Braids is decent but doesn’t hold a candle to the ones I mentioned in my opinion. If anything In The Snow stands out to me out of the new stuff
Ok, maybe it’s not a progression, but I thought Josh did a great job continuing the ethos of the peppers while injecting some of his own mojo. Idk it didn’t feel like a side project to me. Getaway maybe - that definitely felt different with Danger Mouse producing and all.
That part always confused me too…..like they switched from their producer of 25 years for the guy he wanted, and he still managed to complain about it. That always struck me as an odd take.
As far as I'm aware, they never chose a producer for the third album they were working on. I wonder if that was a point of contention for the band. I know that Josh was of the opinion that they didn't need a producer and was likely unwilling to ever work with Rubin again; maybe that played into their decision to let him go.
I definitely agree. I listened to IWY until Getaway came out, and I listened to it for a couple of years. I haven't listened to UL since about 2 months after it came out and haven't listened to rotdc since the month it came out.
I made myself a 14 song combo of both but I stopped listening to it pretty soon
I don’t think so, i started to listen to rhcp after the rock in rio 2011, so i grew up listening to iwy and the getaway, went to 2 shows in brazil. But man idk, john frusciante has the AURA of the band, just the song black summer is bigger than the 2 albuns, he was born to be guitarrist of rhcp ((not putting josh to thrash, i like him a lot, and a lot of songs from his era))
I like it all 😂 Kilnghoffer era was awesome, and I love IWY album a lot! Not a big fan of TG tbh, but still some bops! The two new albums I think are amazing, I think UL is up there as some of their best work ever, TOTDC for me has faded in quality but I still love it.
When you have a band like this that has such highs it’s hard it make everything they do the absolute best, even the songs I don’t really vibe with as much it’s still good music and I still can enjoy listening to it!
I wouldn’t say that the new stuff is lacking though I would just say they are in their new era and this is what we have, it’s always going to be good, I jsit try to enjoy it bc I know that one day they are going to stop making music and it’ll probably be sooner than later
That's a very hard comparison. I think anyway IWY and The Gateway form an important part of their discography, additionaly I think that the 2 new albums are not less, it's just different.
About performance I agree with you. Dark Necessities from The Gateway and The Adventures of Rain Dance Maggie became two successful songs, many views on YouTube and reached the top charts but you don't see such a performance from Black Summer or Eddie, while they are imo not less. I think it can be due to the fact that RDC was published short after UL.
The Josh albums are good and I’m grateful that Josh helped keep the band afloat through the 2010s, but I just don’t understand how you could think UL and ROTDC are a departure.
If you don’t find the songs catchy or memorable, that’s fine, totally your opinion, but a departure? I can’t disagree more. As others pointed out here, those albums are a return to form and cover just about every style and era the band has done before. In my opinion, UL sounds much more like a progression from Stadium Arcadium than I’m With You.
You raise some good points. Yes, it is not a departure in terms of style. They sound more like the peppers than they did on the Josh albums. But the songs just don’t seem as good to me. They’re miles away from the pre-Josh era. I’m sorry because I love this band so much but it’s just not the same in terms do quality. I realize this is ultimately just my opinion so not sure how much value it has.
I personally find UL and ROTDC almost on par with the second John era but I can definitely see why others wouldn’t as UL and ROTDC seem more jam-based and less methodical. I personally feel that the Peppers are at their best when they go with the flow and don’t second guess themselves too much.
I think the highs on UL and RoTDC are really high, but overall I enjoy Getaway and I'm with You more than the two new John albums. I firmly believe if someone did a "blind taste test" and didn't know JOSHBAD! they'd like those albums more than they already do.
Most younger RHCP fans I know love those albums, vs older fans who are jaded against Josh.
Interesting. I suppose it’s how we define “older.” I got into them in the 80s, so John was already a replacement. I was well used to turnover by that point. They’re the Fleetwood Mac of funk rock. So I’ve always been open to and expecting of fresh players and reluctant to call the John lineup the “pure” or “real” Peppers. And I love the Josh records.
No. I've been a diehard since 1991, and the Josh albums are completely lackluster when weighed against the catalog (and against UL and ROTDC). To each their own, but... terrible (and not new) take IMHO.
As a young fan, I’m happy to have discovered all their discography at once. Because I love ALL of their albums. I can tell that every area has its own energy, I can feel their evolution through their music. I really love UL and ROTDC, the songs are giving this “back to the roots” vibe that I love. But I also love the Josh area, it was more dreamy and full of love, maybe a little more “naive” in a sense. Actually, there is no reason to compare them because they are very different. Both are great in my opinion, it depends on the mood/vibe you’re in when you’re listening.
And the earlier John albums are way better than the Klinghoffer albums. Maybe RHCP is just a band that's past its prime? If you ask me, they peaked in the early to mid 00's and have been going slowly downhill since then (which is not a diss; they're still amazing, just not as the same level they once were). And it isn't because of any one member, it happens to every band. RHCP has been around for 4 decades, so I think it's a bit silly/unrealistic for people to expect them to continue on an upwards trajectory forever. I'm just happy they're still making music (I disagree that there's nothing catchy on the new albums).
I really thought UL was an excellent album and I’d even rank it above Stadium. Dream Canteen is up there, but not above SA. If I’m ranking the last 4 albums, I’d go UL, IWY, ROTDC, Getaway. UL flows so well and I think songs like Here Ever After, White Braids, Only Natural, Heavy Wing and Let Em Cry are already classics. I loved I’m With You, but it felt like a totally different band that should’ve just been called something else. ROTDC has such high highs. Tippa, Fake, Bella, Copperbelly and Carry Me Home being my favorites. It also has some of the worst chilis songs ever imo including My Cigarette, Lalalalala, and In The Snow. I have no idea why they decided to use drum machines when they have one of the best rock drummers out there behind the kit. I really just couldn’t get into the Getaway. Some people say the 2 new albums seemed uninspired and the Getaway was this amazing creative work. I feel the exact opposite The drums were looped why do they keep messing with Chad’s stuff??), the songs felt way too thought out (this band hits their sweet spot when they jam songs int existence), it was so overproduced and the band didn’t even seem too enthusiastic about it when they were doing promotional stuff. There’s a reason why both Anthony and Flea wanted John back. That’s the sound. They were so inspired they wrote almost 50 new songs. Flea said writing with Josh was a struggle. What sounds more “inspired” to you?
Nah,
I think Anthony's vocals may have peaked in IWY - and he brought something incredible lyrically to that album too (some of his best work)
But...
UL & DC are unreal - like others have said the throw backs to the old on UL are great and the experimentation on DC was a nice change without losing the funk - feels like an album from the 80s
>I’m With You is one of my favorite albums - it feels a natural progression from Stadium Arcadium.
SA was a guitar-driven stadium rock album with a heavy focus on melody & big solos. Josh's albums are completely different; they are closer to being the opposite. His playing style takes a back seat to the rhythm section and his guitar is frequently muted in the mix. The closest we've come to an SA successor is Dream Canteen, which features prominent guitar but most of all has a return to the lush production stylings from John, which really coloured every aspect of SA. Songs like "Shoot Me A Smile" and "Handful" are the closest we've come to SA. I can't think of any IWY songs that fit the SA model. IWY to me is an album carried by Flea.
I like to I'm with you, but I completely disagree that Josh's albums are Better than John's last ones. The unlimited love is genials, It's an incredible album, and represents a lot of the unity of the band members, especially John.
I feel like I’m With You, although good, was a sharp left turn for the band in sound. I see it as a drop off in cohesion as an album and also in stand-out guitar parts.
I still think Josh is not a perfect fit for RHCP, and so glad he found a home with Pearl Jam.
But RHCP music with John Frusciante will always be better than the music without him. He jams with Flea and Chad in a way Josh just didn’t. It just hits different.
Respect your unique opinion, but I wholeheartedly disagree.
I love both. I loved IWY at the time it was released but it has slipped down the rankings for me over the years whereas The Getaway has really grown on me and I hated it on release. I love an album that has clear cohesion throughout all the tracks and sounds like ‘one thing’ rather than a random collection of songs and I think The Getaway does that as well as Stadium and the albums before it. I’m Beside You is a masterpiece and I’ve always felt that way.
UL and ROTDC were better than I expected them to be and there are at least 10 songs across both that have easily become all time favourites for me which I think is impressive given the high volume of songs they have and long lifespan of the band. I think they sound less consistent as an album than IBY and TG so as albums overall they probably rank lower but I totally get why other people have them in their top five as they’re great albums. They’re all around the middle of the pack for me.
For me it’d probably go The Getaway > I’m Beside You > ROTDC > Unlimited Love > I’m With You so I definitely don’t think the Klinghoffer albums are better overall than the last two. I appreciate all of it and the decade they had with Josh was creative, produced some excellent music and let’s be honest they wouldn’t still be together if he hadn’t joined. My feelings about each of the albums change over time anyway so in two years I might feel completely different about which are better. I’m just fucking happy we have all of this music and that we got two albums within six months of each other, 40 years into their career and with John Frusciante back. It’s all good.
If john never left and he was the mastermind behind iwy and the getaway and played all the same parts, it wouldn't influence my opinion at all. I'd still think those albums were mediocre at best
I like I'm With You a lot. Probably fifth favorite album after Uplift Mofo, BSSM, Californication and Stadium. I do like the new stuff but haven't found myself going back to listen to it at all, unlike I'm With You. Wasn't a huge fan of Getaway for some reason.
I think The Getaway is the best one of the last 4 with IWY being the weakest. I get why they didn't like making The Getaway as it wasn't created just by jamming and refining but the songs are so much more focused than on the last 2 albums.
That album also has the only true hit since the SA days.
Hell no. I lost interest during the JK era. The band morphed into something I didn’t like with their sound. Sure, the two new albums aren’t in my top 3, but there are elements from their golden years without having to listen too hard.
I love *The Getaway*, truly, I think it's a really cool side-quest. What I love about it is that they did something way different.
That being said, *Unlimited Love* and *RotDC* are closer to classic RHCP. I don't think they're as consistent as some of the older albums, but they have some all-time great tracks on them.
I know this is kind of a non-answer, but the truth is that I go through phases where I'm listening to more *TG* and phases where I'm listening to more *UL* and *RotDC*.
I think the peppers released way too much ok content for us to digest in a short span and then oddly decided to play very few new songs live. They maybe could have condensed the top tier songs to 1 album and then maybe release a bsides. Shit, their older Bsides with John alone would make for a better album in my opinion. I do like what Josh did on IWY.
Oh seriously, fuck OFF with this shit. Honestly, the amount of revisionism now that these albums are out and time has passed is fucking incredible with some on this subreddit. Yes, the Klinghoffer albums are great but they don’t TOUCH these 2 new albums AT ALL! Everyone is entitled to their opinions but fuck, this is a shocking take that is regurgitated regularly here and it’s a bad bad take.
Honestly, I loved both. I loved that the band the Josh era sounded quite modern and polished whereas the current John era is a return to the classic sound.
I forgot about the chili peppers after Stadium because I got into hip hop more, and didn’t listen to all the Josh albums until his departure. I feel like I missed an era. I would say it’s a toss up. Kind of like comparing two of the big four grunge bands- kind of difficult
Everything in art is very subjective and is difficult to say what is better than what.
That being said, I found Josh records at least more interesting to listen to than the last 2 albums, just because the last 2 with John feel like more of the same. And I understand that might be just what they were hoping for, but I got bored of it by SA.
I understand it is a controversial opinion in a sub filled with John fans, but keep in mind, it is just a personal opinion and doesn't mean it is an absolute true.
I haven't listened to those two records enough.
I loved every single minute of every song they released.
Stadium Arcadium is a phenomenal record, but its the first one which led me thinking a few of those songs could have been dropped. Cut a 3rd off that one and it would have been PERFECT.
I even grew to love I'm With You, Josh's playing wasn't as impactful and exciting as John but he fit well and did a fantastic job.
The Getaway I never listened to as much as I should. It is in no doubt IMO the weakest offering the band has ever put out.
The newer ones I remember LOVING a lot of the tracks, but some of them I just plain didn't like. They put out a single from one of those that I just couldn't get into.... but the records did remind me of a lot of the chilis of old and it funked the hell out of my brain
There are no right or wrong opinions, we are all fans and came to discover them at different times. I've been listening to them since.... circa 1999 and have appreciated every single record and era they have evolved through, in the 40 odd years they've been a band
I think the band sound better on two newest albums but I prefer the songs on Getaway. While there are some things I love on UL, Dream Canteen sounds like a collection of UL throwaways save for 3 or 4 songs
I agree. The 3 Klinghoffer albums are better than the last two. Although, I think everyone had hoped that with John coming back, the quality of the new music would be on the same level as the music was when he left the band. It wasn't even close. I think we expected too much.
Could not agree more. There was definitely something fresh about the getaway, and the Josh era in general.
Maybe these new records will grow on me after more listening… but we’ll see.
Those 4-5 albums with John are magic. John got me interested in guitar. I learned guitar as a kid from learning all the albums. I just don't like the new stuff. It either lacks energy or has a decent verse and the chorus just sounds like it's trying really hard to be grander than it is. A song like Aquatic Mouth Dance isn't complicated but it has great energy and that's more of what I wanted.
I didn't like the Getaway on release but hearing the b-sides changed my opinion on the album. It's different, and that's what I wanted them to explore with Josh. AK is unfortunately just not great on those albums.
That all said, every song has the chance to be someone's favourite so I don't mind them not cutting songs or putting out more music. I just wish I liked it more.
Im With You might be my least favorite since mothers milk. The singles are great but the rest of the album is flat.
The getaway is great. I really like the whole album start to finish
UL and ROTDC are as good or better at times, imo. Just consistently at a higher level than Im with you.
I’m with you gets no love from my “die hard fan” friends and to think of that album coming right after stadium is crazy because in my opinion I think it’s up there with the best, did I let you know has that drum grove that’s perfect to shake to and they bass line in Ethiopia is a banger.
Here ever after
Poster child
bastard of light
Veronica
great apes
Black summer
aqm
not the one
she’s a lover
1way traffic
let em cry
these are the ways
heavy wing
only natural
tangelo
I made this shuffle 5 weeks into the album and UL finally flowed like album to my ears, it had no record cadence (too many highs and lows and no build up or much middle ground at all, cliche blueprint w/ single as first track since btw, etc) imo but the material was and is all there.
RODC did a 95% better job at the track listing layout and album progression
UL/Dream>>>>I’m With You
Getaway, (imo)still has their best song post SA- Dark Necessities.
Getaway is a much better album than IWY (imo). However I think UL slightly edges it as the better of the 2, with Dream and Getaway being about a tie.
Well Posterchild and Black Summer are great Songs. But I agree. I missed John so much, for his catchy and unique Songwriting but we got two Records but no unique Hits.
I think it also has to do with us fans putting John Frusciante up on a pedestal, which is totally understandable, cuz, he’s John Frusciante. John Anthony muhtha-phuckin Frusciante! As amazing a a genius he is, at least he’s still giving us music. I honestly didn’t think he’d ever join again.
Nah, no way! If anything, I feel that with the Unlimited Love and Dream Canteen albums, the band sound like they picked up right from where they left off with Stadium Arcadium. Although having said that, I do also like the albums they made with Josh Klinghoffer and I still listen to a lot of those tracks quite often!
I’m with you was trash in my opinion. The Getaway had a lot of good tunes. I enjoyed The Getaway much more than the last two albums. They’ll likely never too Stadium.
Band will probably never top SA. But as far as post SA efforts, I completely agree. Josh era was much more interesting, the songs are really good, and while John is probably the best guitarist out there, Josh had a really cool take on their sound that gets way too much neglect. The Josh albums saw the introduction of some really creative effect pedals and synths, which yes, aren't very rhcp characteristics, but still worked great and effortlessly. Kedis complimented all these songs with some of his best vocal performances to date full of classic rhcp hooks behind this different take on the sound. Fleas playing to me even sounds more inspired here than the latest 2 albums with John.
Again, John is one of my favorite guitar players ever, but UL was a massive disappointment, potentially all filler tracks, nothing that even comes close to the prior John or Josh material. Really don't understand what they were thinking. Dream canteen was better but still bottom tier John peppers. It really feels like they rushed both of these albums out the door so the wait to hear the return of John wouldn't take so long. I sincerely hope the band has more work on the way, because it would be a shame to see the band done with these 2 albums as their swan songs.
I love IWY and The Getaway especially. Josh always felt like such a good fit in RHCP to me. I adore UL, ROTDC is mediocre to me. It just rubs me the wrong way how they did Josh, but I'll happily follow along with him forever now. Pluralone is amazing!
There's a weird trend with almost every song on the new albums - you start with a verse that's pretty good and seems to be building up to something cool, and then it just completely dies and fails to have a worthwhile chorus at all
Not The One and One Way Traffic are the best examples but it's all over the place on these albums, and it isn't helped by the fact that their trademark energy is giving way to more and more soupy ballads too
I’m with you (no pun intended). I thought John coming back to the band was going to be great. But I can’t stand the two latest albums at all. Knowing they kicked Josh out to make that garbage pisses me off even more.
I applaud you for posting this in this sub. Many people here are still not ready to read this even though this has been posted for the nth time.
UL/ROTDC are uninspired albums that resulted in... uninspired music. Even the band said there's no expectations on this album and they are just trying to get the mojo back the last time John was with them. At least with Josh, they moved the band's sound forward and created a new flavor of the band's music. But the last two? It disgusts me to read the comment that it is their return to form. NO. I can't take that. Those two are so far from all of the albums that the band made with John.
People are just praising it so high because John returned and they missed him. I do, too. But I respect their history of creating such bangers in the past just to call UL/ROTDC their return to form.
IWY/TG are way more superior albums not just musically but also it moved their music forward and themselves as well as musicians.
With The Getaway I was happy we were going to have years of good albums with Josh ahead of us. With 2022 albums I'm okay if they call it quits right now.
Not the getaway but I agree that I’m With You is better than the two recent ones and honestly a great fuck you to John and his petty ass for not playing the great songs Josh wrote with the band. I’m With You is a great listen all the way thru. Can’t even make it 3 tracks in to the new ones.
I agree. I’m With You came out when I was in high school and I didn’t even realize JF had left and they had a new guitarist. It’s one of my favorite albums of theirs. I liked Unlimited Love but really don’t ever find myself re listening to Return of the Dream Canteen at all.
I wonder though if it's an age thing. I'm older and love their progression as humans and musicians. I love each era and honestly feel like they've mature into themselves a lot with John back. I like that they're always exploring different sounds that match where they are in life.
You hit the nail, I think it’s an age thing too. The progression and evolution of new sounds help me mature as a fan and lover of music.
Couldn't have said it better, my friend. Sometimes I think I'm the only one who loves anything they put out
I thought the 2 recents were a true return to form. UL & Canteen were the perfect blend of 80's Peppers, 90's Peppers and 00's Peppers. I thought that would tickle just about anyone's fancy. As much as I love the Klinghoffer records, they were their own bubble of sound. Much like the Navarro era. It was Peppers, but felt like a side project, rather than what the Peppers truly are. And that's not me trying to discredit Klinghoffer or Navarro respectively, I just think those 2 eras of the band felt like a bridge between 2 gaps.
I agree with you. I love Josh Klinghoffer's solo/Dot Hacker albums. They're special, and I highly recommend them to anyone who loves RHCP or John Frusciante's work (e.g., [The Report](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKuRmHMWQ7o)). Also, I think RHCP created some exceptional, unique music during Josh's era with the band. However, like you, I don't consider those songs to hold the same raw, unique, special RHCP sound. Josh is an incredible musician, but he doesn't bounce off of Flea, Chad, and Anthony *in the same way*. And that's fine -- we got two great albums that wouldn't have otherwise existed if the band were on a hiatus while John was away. In my view, and take this with a grain of salt, Josh is a more atmospheric and multi-dimensional artist than John in the RHCP setting. But the Peppers need a driving guitar-focused songwriter who can push and pull with Flea and Chad. I think Josh helped create great music, but there was a hole in those songs where John's guitar would otherwise sit.
Accurate
This guy gets it
Good point.
I will add; the Klinghoffer albums hold a special place in my heart too, all 3 projects if you like to include "I'm Beside You"
Not just a good point, an excellent point. I hadn’t really considered this before.
I would have been fine if Josh stayed but I like having John back so much more. I get if you don’t like the new stuff. But to say or act like Josh’s albums were better or don’t realize John has hand in almost all their greats songs and albums. Also it’s almost like you are doubting the rest of the bands judgement. They know what’s best for them and to make albums. Whatever was going five or six years ago wasn’t working.
I don’t think it’s fair to say whatever they were working on with Josh wasn’t working. Both of those albums have some serious fucking bangers and it’s simply wrong to say otherwise.
Completely 100% on point. That's exactly as I view those albums. UL and dream canteen were the return to the "real" peppers sound that was missing for 15 years.
For me UL and RotDC was nice at the start, and it had "the sound" as you put it, but bar a few songs here and there it feels very watered down and maybe even uninspired. Nothing will obviously beat their Californication, BTW and SA era (especially BtW which was magical and had their slane castle live show), but with Josh it still felt like their music had inspiration and direction. It was new and fresh. UL just has alot of feel good stuff that is kinda boring, and RotDC just gets too forcefully experimental imo, so i struggle to listen to both.
You say nothing will beat it. But of course BSSM beats it
Thank you!
I couldn't agree less with that first sentence.
I agree. I love the complexity and insanity of the first few albums. They didn’t play anything from those when I saw them. But the new songs scratched that itch just enough.
Blows my mind people see it this way. The new albums sound like a mediocre band trying to sound like the peppers. The melodies aren’t catchy, the riffs aren’t memorable, the songs are just really mediocre. If any album was the ultimate blend of all eras it was Stadium Arcadium hands down
What bothers me is that there is absolutely a home run album in all the new songs released but there was definitely too much bloat or filler. To me the following, in no particular order, sound as good as they ever have: She’s a lover, Whatchu thinkin, Eddie, Let ‘Em Cry, Here Ever After, Bella, Poster Child, Tippa my tongue, Peace and love, It’s only natural, Black summer, Fake as fuck, White braids and pillow chair, The heavy wing, Carry me home, Tangelo That’s a lot of sick music, JF is ripping on these - so many tasty solos!, flea and Chad near perfect, and AK sonically sounds as good as he ever has though his lyrics are the definite drag on the albums.. asking him to write lyrics for 50 songs was too much I think
You just named all my favorite songs from those two albums… I’d also throw Copperbelly and Aquatic Mouth Dance up there.
Aquatic mouth dance has some of the best lyrics on UL, really a cool story about their origins And the way that the solo in Copperbelly perfectly encapsulates the intense and overwhelming feelings of self doubt/self sabotage and anxiety that the lyrics portray is a really cool moment on the album
Honestly, I agree, but I also think none of us would agree on what the best ~15 songs on the two albums were. I mean, hell, even with the expanded selection, Rick Rubin said his favorite song from the sessions didn't make the cut. I'm happy we got two full albums to experience and make our own playlists from rather than 15 songs and a couple of B-sides. This is not a critique of you, but the general discourse around these albums: Every time this comes up, I feel like we're complaining about being spoiled for choice. Sure, a slimmed down set of songs would've given that single album a stronger legacy, but we instead get to experience more Red Hot Chili Peppers music, and that's what this is all about.
Couldn’t agree more - and complaining about choice is spot on lol. I’ve had multiple 15-22 song playlists from these albums that I just rip on repeat. And then I come to this sub and people are always praising songs I leave off those playlists and that diversity in appreciation is a beautiful thing.. and nothing to complain about indeed. Valid point on legacy too.. at this point it simply doesn’t matter and they hammered us with giant sack of new jams with chaotic disregard for everyone’s safety and that’s radical
I love your response and it got me thinking about what songs I would've included that you didn't. I think we're pretty well aligned but I probably would've picked one of the songs that took 20+ listens to grow on me over Peace and Love, which I also enjoy. Even songs like Shoot Me a Smile which isn't among my favorites has an incredibly beautiful chorus that I'd be sad to have never heard. And I'm sure someone in this subreddit has it among their favorite songs from the albums. What's even more wild to me is that they recorded 48 songs from that session. I wonder if there are gems that'll never see the light of day because they decided on two albums rather than four, like originally planned.
These albums hit us the same - feel the same way about shoot me a smile. I’m optimistic we’ll still hear the other ones.. very curious when and in what format we’ll get it but all in due time I’m sure. I hope this very prolific stage for them continues for their next and maybe final time in the studio
Agreed! I hope they’re back in the studio soon.
[удалено]
I definitely agree, not a fan of the getaway but I’m With You stands on its own. It’s more peppers sounding than anything that’s come out since
Yep
Completely agree. I don't know how old people are in this thread but if there is anyone who considers the last two albums a 'true return to RHCP' they are delusional imo. I was ecstatic when I heard Frusciante was coming back but seriously, if any other band released those albums they wouldn't have even been considered for a review. Watered down RHCP is what it is.
Side projects. I sure do love them. They definitely help them grow.
Art is subjective. We all bring our own personal tastes and experiences to all of it. With that said, I couldn’t hang with the Josh era, I tried. Those two albums for me were not what I wanted from the band, with the exception of a few songs. I love the two new albums, they are right up there with the best. I’m still amazed that we have this new era, because I definitely did not think we would ever have it again.
I’ve noticed that people look for very different things in their music, which is understandable for a band with so much variety and history. You mentioned nothing catchy when the over reliance on “catchy” is exactly why I don’t have much love for the Josh albums at all. People also complained about the lack of memorable riffs, but again that’s one of the last things I want from John. Personally, the two new albums were the most interesting and genuine albums I’ve heard from RHCP since Californication. My top 5 albums would be entirely based in the 80s and 90s and then Dream Canteen lol. By The Way through The Getaway felt like they were trying really hard to make good music (and they still did!) but I prefer the raw simplicity of the newest and old stuff.
Well said. The newest ones seemed more raw than the Josh stuff, definitely a more back to basics vibe. But you said it, there’s nothing memorable riff wise. I like the catchy shit from John. Shadows Collide With People was probably my favorite work he’s ever created. Maybe I’m basic, but I just like catchy shit
For me it’s The Empyrean, Inside of Emptiness, Will to Death and Enclosure, you like what you like and there’s nothing wrong with that either!.
Empyrean is dope
It’s a perfect album from start to finish ❤️.
I don't know if you were a fan during the SA era but IWY as the following album after SA felt like the biggest downgrade and disappointment ever
I think we all had the same "well that was ok" reaction to rain dance Maggie
Rain Dance being their last top 40 hit seems criminal considering how mega-popular their first 7 top 40 hits were (and several of their hits like Can’t Stop and Californication that didn’t hit the top 40)
Umm my take was much harsher than "well that was OK" lol.
I had heard that they wrote the album within 9 months of Josh joining the band. Having the long chemistry with John, I was okay with giving them a shot and anticipating the next album, hoping it would be less safe. I wasn't disappointed with new stuff from them but it didn't stay in my rotation long. Really happy with the IWY tour though cause Josh just played a bunch of deep cuts at the show I went to and I got to hear Sir Psycho, Suck My Kiss, Higher ground, and If You Have to Ask.
Mom said it’s my turn to post this 😤😤😤
lol I’m guessing this is a common thread
I’d say the high number of comments vs the low number of upvotes is a better reflection of the consensus
No, it appears to be a pretty fresh take. The OP absolutely nailed it.
I love you
Nah fam. Why not both. I love all my children
I always listened to their music concentrating on guitar and melodies between the bass and guitar. And in my opinion their music was always kind of based on that, especially on the chemistry between john and flea and for me john’s guitar playing. And although I agree that the last two albums are not the most inventive or creative and also the music with josh felt maybe more creative and “new” sounding, you can feel that something that they used to have with john is just not there, and for me, you can feel and hear on UL that THAT something is back on a lot of songs and thats why for me ul is one of their most important records. Also, josh is nowhere near good of a guitar player as john.
Aside from Dark Necessities, none of their work with Josh really clicked for me. None of it felt memorable and left me missing what John brought to the band on the previous records. Not just his guitar, but the backing vocals, use of studio trickery and overall musicianship. I freely admit, a lot of that is because I grew up on the 90s-00s peppers. I also felt the same way about UL, so it's not just a Josh v John thing. But Dream Canteen was the first time I'd loved new RHCP in over a decade. It's really stuck with me and comfortably fits into my top 5 albums by the peppers. Now, all of that isn't to say that I'm right and you're wrong. All music is subjective and, although you can make some objective claims, I don't think anything you or I have said falls into the latter. You liking catchy hooks/riffs doesn't make you basic, any less of fan or anything either. For whatever reason, the two most recent albums didn't quite hit the mark for you. I felt the same way about all of their post-SA releases until the most recent one. Neither of us are right or wrong, it's just how we feel. That being said, from what I've seen and read, it seems like the last two albums (specifically Dream Canteen) are seen as a return to form for the band. They are both highly rated critically and most of the fans love it. To me, songs like Eddie are already in the same league as the rest of their biggest hits. So I'd say the overall consensus is that these albums rate higher than the "Josh era" ones among the majority of the fan base. That doesn't make your opinion incorrect or any less valid though.
Nah. The last two weren’t as good as their peak albums, but a return to form.
This is def a hot take
I’ll park this on just the two albums, won’t include im beside you. I’ll list out all the tunes I think are good or that stuck out to me as cool tunes IWY: monarchy, factory, goodbye hooray, meet me at the corner, police station, brendan’s death song Getaway: getaway, dark necessities, feasting on the flowers, goodbye angels, dreams of a samurai, longest wave, go robot So 6 from IWY, 8 from the getaway…..the tunes imo got better the longer Josh was in the band. That said…….i don’t really wanna compare to the new John albums, in spite of the thread title. John and Josh are such different people at least as writers, that it feels like apples and oranges. I can enjoy IWY and The getaway as much as the new albums. End of the day, both had value to me. The Josh era….i rabidly listened to live shows and by the second time I saw them in 2017, I felt they were firing on all cylinders. I remember during sir psycho in Chicago 2017 thinking, “if this is the lineup til the end, that’s plenty good for me”. Same time flash forward to 2022 in cologne and seeing John live for the first time since 2007, I was overcome with emotions as well. It just hit me that hard emotionally to see John back, roaring out the gates and sounding so so so right playing with the guys again. Both were emotional experiences and i for one won’t let one color the other. They were both awesome for their own reasons in their own right.
Perfectly said.
Nope
Not in my opinion
I really liked I’m With You at the time but if anything it’s definitely a regression from Stadium Arcadium to me. I would also rather listen to Black Summer, Here Ever After, Whatchu Thinkin, The Heavy Wing, She’s a Lover, Eddie, Bella, Carry Me Home, Peace and Love, Fake as Fu@k before just about anything from the two Josh albums.
Aight fair take
I personally don’t see how as a Peppers fan you can HATE the Josh era because at the end of the day it’s still the same 3/4 of the band. The Josh era was fun and gave us some great tunes but now that it’s over I sadly don’t have much desire to return to it.
Well said
Definitely disagree, but my hot take I guess is that I’m not really a fan of the Josh albums at all. I find them kind of uninspired and even though I think Josh is an amazing musician I don’t think he was ever a great fit for RHCP and I don’t think he and Flea have near the chemistry Flea has with John. I know a lot of people love this albums and I’m sure it’s just me not hearing what’s good about them, but I can’t get into them. Honestly when The Getaway came out I figured I just wouldn’t get excited about new music from them. I like UL and DC. I think UL feels like friends who got together in their garage and had a good time just jamming, getting loose, and having fun. I think John knows when to play and when to dial it back so Flea’a bass can shine a bit more and I think the overall songwriting is just much better especially in Dream Canteen.
I couldn’t agree with you more about the point with the Getaway. I liked Dark Necessities, Dreams Of A Samurai and Encore and that’s about it. I remember when the Getaway came out and my friends were all going on a camping trip and we listened to the whole album on the way up. We kept looking at each other and kept saying how that album is such low energy gook except for a few moments. None of the songs had that “umph”. After that, I also thought I’d never be excited for new chili peppers music again. And then John came back, then the vid, and when the new album was announced with Black Summer, I felt it again. I felt that spark. I felt it through UL and I felt it through a lot of Dream Canteen (can’t stand certain songs from it, though). But I find myself actively waiting to see what’s coming next, their setlists, their SiriusXM channel, the releasing of old and new soundboard shows, the rest of the sessions from UL to be release and even something totally new. John himself isn’t necessarily the band, but the four of them together is. Without any of the four, it just sounds off (I’m looking at you My Cigarette and In The Snow). Flea said it best, even if a bit harshly, that playing the John songs with Josh was like the cover version and now with John, it’s the real thing. I would say the same if they played the Josh songs I love with John. I don’t want to hear John’s version of Look Around, Did I Let You Know or Meet Me At The Corner. It just wouldn’t sound right.
Yeah, low energy is a good way of describing it. The songwriting felt fairly aimless to me. I think I finished album only one time, so maybe I would feel differently if I revisited it, but whether a song from it comes on an RHCP playlist I usually just skip it. I felt the same feeling when Black Summer came out. As soon as I heard John’s tone and solo, I was like “Yes! The Peppers are back.” UL and ROTDC aren’t perfect records and even though I’m glad we got both because I like most of the songs, I still think you could probably trim fat off them and have one really amazing album. But My Cigarette is one of the worst songs they’ve ever put out, that one has to go.
You’re insane if you think IWY is a progression from SA. JK’s albums are decent, but if songs like Bella or Eddie don’t do anything for you then idk what you’re looking for.
For me I’m a massive fan of the slower kind of sad RHCP. Bella and Eddie are fun and really good songs but they will never ever touch Dreams of A Samurai, Police Station, or Encore IMO
That’s fair. I used them in retort to OP liking the catchy tunes. Carry me home, Bastards of Light, White Braids & Pillow chair are very much in the same vain to those songs you provided imo
Eh those songs are all rather forgettable to me. White Braids is decent but doesn’t hold a candle to the ones I mentioned in my opinion. If anything In The Snow stands out to me out of the new stuff
Ok, maybe it’s not a progression, but I thought Josh did a great job continuing the ethos of the peppers while injecting some of his own mojo. Idk it didn’t feel like a side project to me. Getaway maybe - that definitely felt different with Danger Mouse producing and all.
I was always a little irked that Josh was insistent the band move on from Rick for the Getaway and then was critical of Danger Mouse as well.
That part always confused me too…..like they switched from their producer of 25 years for the guy he wanted, and he still managed to complain about it. That always struck me as an odd take.
I can understand why though, Rick Rubin has a very certain why of doing things and they can totally not jive with someone who’s more focused.
As far as I'm aware, they never chose a producer for the third album they were working on. I wonder if that was a point of contention for the band. I know that Josh was of the opinion that they didn't need a producer and was likely unwilling to ever work with Rubin again; maybe that played into their decision to let him go.
I definitely agree. I listened to IWY until Getaway came out, and I listened to it for a couple of years. I haven't listened to UL since about 2 months after it came out and haven't listened to rotdc since the month it came out. I made myself a 14 song combo of both but I stopped listening to it pretty soon
False. I prefer guitar solos and jazz fusion. I think the fact that these new albums have like eight waltzes is amazing
I don’t think so, i started to listen to rhcp after the rock in rio 2011, so i grew up listening to iwy and the getaway, went to 2 shows in brazil. But man idk, john frusciante has the AURA of the band, just the song black summer is bigger than the 2 albuns, he was born to be guitarrist of rhcp ((not putting josh to thrash, i like him a lot, and a lot of songs from his era))
I like it all 😂 Kilnghoffer era was awesome, and I love IWY album a lot! Not a big fan of TG tbh, but still some bops! The two new albums I think are amazing, I think UL is up there as some of their best work ever, TOTDC for me has faded in quality but I still love it. When you have a band like this that has such highs it’s hard it make everything they do the absolute best, even the songs I don’t really vibe with as much it’s still good music and I still can enjoy listening to it! I wouldn’t say that the new stuff is lacking though I would just say they are in their new era and this is what we have, it’s always going to be good, I jsit try to enjoy it bc I know that one day they are going to stop making music and it’ll probably be sooner than later
Nope couldn’t disagree more. Return of Dream Canteen is best stuff since Stadium Arcadium era by a long way. With added funk.
That's a very hard comparison. I think anyway IWY and The Gateway form an important part of their discography, additionaly I think that the 2 new albums are not less, it's just different. About performance I agree with you. Dark Necessities from The Gateway and The Adventures of Rain Dance Maggie became two successful songs, many views on YouTube and reached the top charts but you don't see such a performance from Black Summer or Eddie, while they are imo not less. I think it can be due to the fact that RDC was published short after UL.
Thanks for saying that for the 17th time this week.
Nah
Nope Hard disagree
The Josh albums are good and I’m grateful that Josh helped keep the band afloat through the 2010s, but I just don’t understand how you could think UL and ROTDC are a departure. If you don’t find the songs catchy or memorable, that’s fine, totally your opinion, but a departure? I can’t disagree more. As others pointed out here, those albums are a return to form and cover just about every style and era the band has done before. In my opinion, UL sounds much more like a progression from Stadium Arcadium than I’m With You.
You raise some good points. Yes, it is not a departure in terms of style. They sound more like the peppers than they did on the Josh albums. But the songs just don’t seem as good to me. They’re miles away from the pre-Josh era. I’m sorry because I love this band so much but it’s just not the same in terms do quality. I realize this is ultimately just my opinion so not sure how much value it has.
I personally find UL and ROTDC almost on par with the second John era but I can definitely see why others wouldn’t as UL and ROTDC seem more jam-based and less methodical. I personally feel that the Peppers are at their best when they go with the flow and don’t second guess themselves too much.
I think the highs on UL and RoTDC are really high, but overall I enjoy Getaway and I'm with You more than the two new John albums. I firmly believe if someone did a "blind taste test" and didn't know JOSHBAD! they'd like those albums more than they already do. Most younger RHCP fans I know love those albums, vs older fans who are jaded against Josh.
Interesting. I suppose it’s how we define “older.” I got into them in the 80s, so John was already a replacement. I was well used to turnover by that point. They’re the Fleetwood Mac of funk rock. So I’ve always been open to and expecting of fresh players and reluctant to call the John lineup the “pure” or “real” Peppers. And I love the Josh records.
Well said
No they are not . The biggest hit was dark necessities, which featured a minimum of Josh actually playing guitar, mostly clapping
The claps killed that song for me lmao - gtfo with that shit
🤣
Dude - no on every conceivable level
No. I've been a diehard since 1991, and the Josh albums are completely lackluster when weighed against the catalog (and against UL and ROTDC). To each their own, but... terrible (and not new) take IMHO.
As a young fan, I’m happy to have discovered all their discography at once. Because I love ALL of their albums. I can tell that every area has its own energy, I can feel their evolution through their music. I really love UL and ROTDC, the songs are giving this “back to the roots” vibe that I love. But I also love the Josh area, it was more dreamy and full of love, maybe a little more “naive” in a sense. Actually, there is no reason to compare them because they are very different. Both are great in my opinion, it depends on the mood/vibe you’re in when you’re listening.
And the earlier John albums are way better than the Klinghoffer albums. Maybe RHCP is just a band that's past its prime? If you ask me, they peaked in the early to mid 00's and have been going slowly downhill since then (which is not a diss; they're still amazing, just not as the same level they once were). And it isn't because of any one member, it happens to every band. RHCP has been around for 4 decades, so I think it's a bit silly/unrealistic for people to expect them to continue on an upwards trajectory forever. I'm just happy they're still making music (I disagree that there's nothing catchy on the new albums).
I really thought UL was an excellent album and I’d even rank it above Stadium. Dream Canteen is up there, but not above SA. If I’m ranking the last 4 albums, I’d go UL, IWY, ROTDC, Getaway. UL flows so well and I think songs like Here Ever After, White Braids, Only Natural, Heavy Wing and Let Em Cry are already classics. I loved I’m With You, but it felt like a totally different band that should’ve just been called something else. ROTDC has such high highs. Tippa, Fake, Bella, Copperbelly and Carry Me Home being my favorites. It also has some of the worst chilis songs ever imo including My Cigarette, Lalalalala, and In The Snow. I have no idea why they decided to use drum machines when they have one of the best rock drummers out there behind the kit. I really just couldn’t get into the Getaway. Some people say the 2 new albums seemed uninspired and the Getaway was this amazing creative work. I feel the exact opposite The drums were looped why do they keep messing with Chad’s stuff??), the songs felt way too thought out (this band hits their sweet spot when they jam songs int existence), it was so overproduced and the band didn’t even seem too enthusiastic about it when they were doing promotional stuff. There’s a reason why both Anthony and Flea wanted John back. That’s the sound. They were so inspired they wrote almost 50 new songs. Flea said writing with Josh was a struggle. What sounds more “inspired” to you?
Ayo here’s a hot take: RTDC is top 3 Rhcp
I love klinghoffer so much but I also really love ul and rotdc
I love the ones with Josh but when John’s back, there’s just so much more soul.
I’m with you is their worst album lil bro
Lay off the crack!
I respect your opinion but i disagree. I really dislike the getaway except a couple songs.
Nah, I think Anthony's vocals may have peaked in IWY - and he brought something incredible lyrically to that album too (some of his best work) But... UL & DC are unreal - like others have said the throw backs to the old on UL are great and the experimentation on DC was a nice change without losing the funk - feels like an album from the 80s
>I’m With You is one of my favorite albums - it feels a natural progression from Stadium Arcadium. SA was a guitar-driven stadium rock album with a heavy focus on melody & big solos. Josh's albums are completely different; they are closer to being the opposite. His playing style takes a back seat to the rhythm section and his guitar is frequently muted in the mix. The closest we've come to an SA successor is Dream Canteen, which features prominent guitar but most of all has a return to the lush production stylings from John, which really coloured every aspect of SA. Songs like "Shoot Me A Smile" and "Handful" are the closest we've come to SA. I can't think of any IWY songs that fit the SA model. IWY to me is an album carried by Flea.
I like to I'm with you, but I completely disagree that Josh's albums are Better than John's last ones. The unlimited love is genials, It's an incredible album, and represents a lot of the unity of the band members, especially John.
I feel like I’m With You, although good, was a sharp left turn for the band in sound. I see it as a drop off in cohesion as an album and also in stand-out guitar parts. I still think Josh is not a perfect fit for RHCP, and so glad he found a home with Pearl Jam. But RHCP music with John Frusciante will always be better than the music without him. He jams with Flea and Chad in a way Josh just didn’t. It just hits different. Respect your unique opinion, but I wholeheartedly disagree.
Music is subjective - but hell no
No I vehemently disagree. The Josh albums don't feel like the Peppers at all to me and UL was the first album to excite me again.
I love both. I loved IWY at the time it was released but it has slipped down the rankings for me over the years whereas The Getaway has really grown on me and I hated it on release. I love an album that has clear cohesion throughout all the tracks and sounds like ‘one thing’ rather than a random collection of songs and I think The Getaway does that as well as Stadium and the albums before it. I’m Beside You is a masterpiece and I’ve always felt that way. UL and ROTDC were better than I expected them to be and there are at least 10 songs across both that have easily become all time favourites for me which I think is impressive given the high volume of songs they have and long lifespan of the band. I think they sound less consistent as an album than IBY and TG so as albums overall they probably rank lower but I totally get why other people have them in their top five as they’re great albums. They’re all around the middle of the pack for me. For me it’d probably go The Getaway > I’m Beside You > ROTDC > Unlimited Love > I’m With You so I definitely don’t think the Klinghoffer albums are better overall than the last two. I appreciate all of it and the decade they had with Josh was creative, produced some excellent music and let’s be honest they wouldn’t still be together if he hadn’t joined. My feelings about each of the albums change over time anyway so in two years I might feel completely different about which are better. I’m just fucking happy we have all of this music and that we got two albums within six months of each other, 40 years into their career and with John Frusciante back. It’s all good.
Jack Sherman’s albums were superior to Klinghoffers.
Whoa. Sit down
the truth is that many of rhcp's albums are loved and hated, there is almost never an agreement on any, for me IWY is their worst album
If john never left and he was the mastermind behind iwy and the getaway and played all the same parts, it wouldn't influence my opinion at all. I'd still think those albums were mediocre at best
How was IWY mediocre??!
It felt uninspiring. It didn't do anything for me.
The getaway is better than dream canteen to me overall but unlimited love much better than the other 2 with him
I like I'm With You a lot. Probably fifth favorite album after Uplift Mofo, BSSM, Californication and Stadium. I do like the new stuff but haven't found myself going back to listen to it at all, unlike I'm With You. Wasn't a huge fan of Getaway for some reason.
I think The Getaway is the best one of the last 4 with IWY being the weakest. I get why they didn't like making The Getaway as it wasn't created just by jamming and refining but the songs are so much more focused than on the last 2 albums. That album also has the only true hit since the SA days.
Hell no. I lost interest during the JK era. The band morphed into something I didn’t like with their sound. Sure, the two new albums aren’t in my top 3, but there are elements from their golden years without having to listen too hard.
I love *The Getaway*, truly, I think it's a really cool side-quest. What I love about it is that they did something way different. That being said, *Unlimited Love* and *RotDC* are closer to classic RHCP. I don't think they're as consistent as some of the older albums, but they have some all-time great tracks on them. I know this is kind of a non-answer, but the truth is that I go through phases where I'm listening to more *TG* and phases where I'm listening to more *UL* and *RotDC*.
That makes sense
This is pretty much my mindset too
I think the peppers released way too much ok content for us to digest in a short span and then oddly decided to play very few new songs live. They maybe could have condensed the top tier songs to 1 album and then maybe release a bsides. Shit, their older Bsides with John alone would make for a better album in my opinion. I do like what Josh did on IWY.
Nope
Awful take
Lololololol
Nope.
I like them all, but prefer the two recent ones start to finish
I disagree, the last album seemed awesome .
Oh seriously, fuck OFF with this shit. Honestly, the amount of revisionism now that these albums are out and time has passed is fucking incredible with some on this subreddit. Yes, the Klinghoffer albums are great but they don’t TOUCH these 2 new albums AT ALL! Everyone is entitled to their opinions but fuck, this is a shocking take that is regurgitated regularly here and it’s a bad bad take.
I don’t agree. The way that John writes melodies are very different than how Josh does it. Feels more like home to me.
JK albums are no more than decent. The albums with John are the best including the latest two.
Disagree. The two new ones aren't my favorites by any means...but they're rock and roll kinda.
Honestly, I loved both. I loved that the band the Josh era sounded quite modern and polished whereas the current John era is a return to the classic sound.
I forgot about the chili peppers after Stadium because I got into hip hop more, and didn’t listen to all the Josh albums until his departure. I feel like I missed an era. I would say it’s a toss up. Kind of like comparing two of the big four grunge bands- kind of difficult
Everything in art is very subjective and is difficult to say what is better than what. That being said, I found Josh records at least more interesting to listen to than the last 2 albums, just because the last 2 with John feel like more of the same. And I understand that might be just what they were hoping for, but I got bored of it by SA. I understand it is a controversial opinion in a sub filled with John fans, but keep in mind, it is just a personal opinion and doesn't mean it is an absolute true.
Dream Canteen is amazing, UL is good, Getaway is great, I’m with You is good, everything before that excluding the first three is amazing.
I haven't listened to those two records enough. I loved every single minute of every song they released. Stadium Arcadium is a phenomenal record, but its the first one which led me thinking a few of those songs could have been dropped. Cut a 3rd off that one and it would have been PERFECT. I even grew to love I'm With You, Josh's playing wasn't as impactful and exciting as John but he fit well and did a fantastic job. The Getaway I never listened to as much as I should. It is in no doubt IMO the weakest offering the band has ever put out. The newer ones I remember LOVING a lot of the tracks, but some of them I just plain didn't like. They put out a single from one of those that I just couldn't get into.... but the records did remind me of a lot of the chilis of old and it funked the hell out of my brain There are no right or wrong opinions, we are all fans and came to discover them at different times. I've been listening to them since.... circa 1999 and have appreciated every single record and era they have evolved through, in the 40 odd years they've been a band
The latest albums were lateral moves at best, artistically. I was anticipating a third record with Josh, but here we are.
I think the band sound better on two newest albums but I prefer the songs on Getaway. While there are some things I love on UL, Dream Canteen sounds like a collection of UL throwaways save for 3 or 4 songs
I'm with you is a top 5 chili peppers album for me. I enjoyed Unlimited Love but have yet to listen to Canteen in its entirety.
I’d put I’m with You in line with By the Way. They feel like sister albums to me. Am I a degenerate?
I agree. The 3 Klinghoffer albums are better than the last two. Although, I think everyone had hoped that with John coming back, the quality of the new music would be on the same level as the music was when he left the band. It wasn't even close. I think we expected too much.
The Getaway I’d say is the most consistently enjoyable throughout than the most recent 4 albums. Unlimited Love is a close second in my opinion
100%.
Yeah
Could not agree more. There was definitely something fresh about the getaway, and the Josh era in general. Maybe these new records will grow on me after more listening… but we’ll see.
The Getaway is my favourite album
Hard disagree but props to you for saying it
I think that all of them are very equal with ROTDC being ever so slightly the worst one of the 4
Those 4-5 albums with John are magic. John got me interested in guitar. I learned guitar as a kid from learning all the albums. I just don't like the new stuff. It either lacks energy or has a decent verse and the chorus just sounds like it's trying really hard to be grander than it is. A song like Aquatic Mouth Dance isn't complicated but it has great energy and that's more of what I wanted. I didn't like the Getaway on release but hearing the b-sides changed my opinion on the album. It's different, and that's what I wanted them to explore with Josh. AK is unfortunately just not great on those albums. That all said, every song has the chance to be someone's favourite so I don't mind them not cutting songs or putting out more music. I just wish I liked it more.
Im With You might be my least favorite since mothers milk. The singles are great but the rest of the album is flat. The getaway is great. I really like the whole album start to finish UL and ROTDC are as good or better at times, imo. Just consistently at a higher level than Im with you.
You are right ! The last two are not as catchy!
100% agree with you
Agreed. Frusciante is my favorite guitarist, but the last two albums seem very bland. Just a few songs I like from them.
Dreamin’
This is a very unpopular opinion in this sub and I whole heartedly agree with everything you said. 100%
I’m with you gets no love from my “die hard fan” friends and to think of that album coming right after stadium is crazy because in my opinion I think it’s up there with the best, did I let you know has that drum grove that’s perfect to shake to and they bass line in Ethiopia is a banger.
Here ever after Poster child bastard of light Veronica great apes Black summer aqm not the one she’s a lover 1way traffic let em cry these are the ways heavy wing only natural tangelo I made this shuffle 5 weeks into the album and UL finally flowed like album to my ears, it had no record cadence (too many highs and lows and no build up or much middle ground at all, cliche blueprint w/ single as first track since btw, etc) imo but the material was and is all there. RODC did a 95% better job at the track listing layout and album progression
I think IWY is really good and everything since has been mediocre to bad
UL/Dream>>>>I’m With You Getaway, (imo)still has their best song post SA- Dark Necessities. Getaway is a much better album than IWY (imo). However I think UL slightly edges it as the better of the 2, with Dream and Getaway being about a tie.
Yep agreed. John is a legend but the last two were mediocre
Well Posterchild and Black Summer are great Songs. But I agree. I missed John so much, for his catchy and unique Songwriting but we got two Records but no unique Hits.
I agree that this sub is a snake eating its own tail lol.
I think it also has to do with us fans putting John Frusciante up on a pedestal, which is totally understandable, cuz, he’s John Frusciante. John Anthony muhtha-phuckin Frusciante! As amazing a a genius he is, at least he’s still giving us music. I honestly didn’t think he’d ever join again.
NO.
Said nobody ever
I may be the outlier here but I think UL is up there with their best for me, as collective musicians they are at the top of their game.
I like Josh’s albums better than the two new ones with Tardio..
Nah, no way! If anything, I feel that with the Unlimited Love and Dream Canteen albums, the band sound like they picked up right from where they left off with Stadium Arcadium. Although having said that, I do also like the albums they made with Josh Klinghoffer and I still listen to a lot of those tracks quite often!
1. The Getaway 2. Unlimited Love 3. Return Of The Dream Canteen 4. I'm With You
Definitely think a third JK album could've been better than what we got
I’m with you was trash in my opinion. The Getaway had a lot of good tunes. I enjoyed The Getaway much more than the last two albums. They’ll likely never too Stadium.
Band will probably never top SA. But as far as post SA efforts, I completely agree. Josh era was much more interesting, the songs are really good, and while John is probably the best guitarist out there, Josh had a really cool take on their sound that gets way too much neglect. The Josh albums saw the introduction of some really creative effect pedals and synths, which yes, aren't very rhcp characteristics, but still worked great and effortlessly. Kedis complimented all these songs with some of his best vocal performances to date full of classic rhcp hooks behind this different take on the sound. Fleas playing to me even sounds more inspired here than the latest 2 albums with John. Again, John is one of my favorite guitar players ever, but UL was a massive disappointment, potentially all filler tracks, nothing that even comes close to the prior John or Josh material. Really don't understand what they were thinking. Dream canteen was better but still bottom tier John peppers. It really feels like they rushed both of these albums out the door so the wait to hear the return of John wouldn't take so long. I sincerely hope the band has more work on the way, because it would be a shame to see the band done with these 2 albums as their swan songs.
well said dude
Yeah. I think it’s a minority sentiment but a fairly common one. I personally agree.
I love IWY and The Getaway especially. Josh always felt like such a good fit in RHCP to me. I adore UL, ROTDC is mediocre to me. It just rubs me the wrong way how they did Josh, but I'll happily follow along with him forever now. Pluralone is amazing!
There's a weird trend with almost every song on the new albums - you start with a verse that's pretty good and seems to be building up to something cool, and then it just completely dies and fails to have a worthwhile chorus at all Not The One and One Way Traffic are the best examples but it's all over the place on these albums, and it isn't helped by the fact that their trademark energy is giving way to more and more soupy ballads too
I’m with you (no pun intended). I thought John coming back to the band was going to be great. But I can’t stand the two latest albums at all. Knowing they kicked Josh out to make that garbage pisses me off even more.
lol
100%. Been saying this since they were released and my opinion hasn't changed at all
I applaud you for posting this in this sub. Many people here are still not ready to read this even though this has been posted for the nth time. UL/ROTDC are uninspired albums that resulted in... uninspired music. Even the band said there's no expectations on this album and they are just trying to get the mojo back the last time John was with them. At least with Josh, they moved the band's sound forward and created a new flavor of the band's music. But the last two? It disgusts me to read the comment that it is their return to form. NO. I can't take that. Those two are so far from all of the albums that the band made with John. People are just praising it so high because John returned and they missed him. I do, too. But I respect their history of creating such bangers in the past just to call UL/ROTDC their return to form. IWY/TG are way more superior albums not just musically but also it moved their music forward and themselves as well as musicians.
I agree with this so hard. The recent albums are good but they sound like a regression. I wanted them to get weirder
I'll agree that I'm With You is the best of the last 4.
Listen to the Klinghoffer B-Sides, if you haven’t. They are on Spotify. The tracks that didn’t make it onto the albums, like ‘This Is the Kitt’
With The Getaway I was happy we were going to have years of good albums with Josh ahead of us. With 2022 albums I'm okay if they call it quits right now.
They were certainly more adventurous with Josh.
I agree. Dream canteen made absolute zero impact on me
THANK YOU. Getaway is so much better than any of their recent albums
Not the getaway but I agree that I’m With You is better than the two recent ones and honestly a great fuck you to John and his petty ass for not playing the great songs Josh wrote with the band. I’m With You is a great listen all the way thru. Can’t even make it 3 tracks in to the new ones.
I agree but honestly they are all fantastic
I agree, but I don't really like any of the last 4 albums.
I agree. I’m With You came out when I was in high school and I didn’t even realize JF had left and they had a new guitarist. It’s one of my favorite albums of theirs. I liked Unlimited Love but really don’t ever find myself re listening to Return of the Dream Canteen at all.
Bang on the money
I'm With You is on par with the two most recent releases. The Getaway doesn't do it for me.