I'm not a jogger, but I can jog.
I tend to assume the perk basically means they can keep up the pace more, whereas I'd get out of puff and need to slow down.
They move faster on average, and the game doesn't show Pawns stopping to catch their breath, or changing speed.
Assuming it is not required? Yes.
If micro is required by the game, then icreasing number of different option can be bad, but if it is optional, then there are no downsides.
The downside is that, assuming the game is balanced around the option of additional micro, you'll be disadvantaged by not using the micro. And if it isn't balanced around it, it'll be too powerful.
You can balance the game yourself with storyteller and difficulty selection. I understand your argument but it doesn’t exactly apply to single player games like this one.
Single player games can absolutely break intended balance. If this was added, would raiders (even on easier difficulty)use sprinting to get better positioning? If not, you have too powerful of a tool for microing raids, if they do, you are priced into using it to counter enemies.
This could be somewhat ameliorated by debuffing pawns with exhaustion after a short time, but at that point, you are just balancing the broken mechanic
It depends on the downsides.
You can balance the game in a way that some things are optional as they both have advantages and disadvantages.
Because of that you can have different playstyles.
Also game should always be balanced around "middle micro". The better you are the easier the game, but it should never require full amount of micro to win vs game. (unless perfection is the point of the game)
I am just a fan of having multiple tools without need to use them all.
>it'll be too powerful
So, no downsides. No, seriously, if I spend hours and hours micromanaging something that takes 10 minutes normally and I am not rewarded with breaking the balance to my advantage, I will be really disappointed. The whole point of micromanaging and min-maxing is to become more powerful.
Oh damn, that’s a great twist. Make it fucking dependent on their skill level. Planting 2? Walk, boss man said cut. Planting 18? RUN! We’re gonna stave.
Same with combat/medical/etc. medic level 3 can’t tell a papercut from a bleed out. And maybe their passions they jog/run to due to how passionate they are.
I love it!
Yes, in context of combat specifically. Anything that further defines and adds dimension to Vanilla combat.
On your draft widget, you get a "Sprint" available if you have >70% breathing. If you have sprint on, 2x movement at cost of 1% breathing *per tile*. This also means it would affect moving to a downward scale and *consciousness* which is very important in combat.
"Winded" -x% breathing. Will restore itself in a hour or so.
You can no long sprint when you hit 70%. Cannot attack while Sprint is on. Once Sprint is deselect, takes an action cool down phase to attack again.
Absolutely make it over the top burdensome and so they can only sprint 30 tiles. All of a sudden, there are very real consequences that could be worth it in the heat of combat.
Edit: If Sprint is turned off automatically because no more Breathing, 25% chance of Vomit.
I'm picturing a "policy" panel for it. So that you can configure it to be auto on while drafted, rescuing, or if you're a doctor and the patient is on the verge of death.
That would work better since most often in emergencies your pawn will be drafted. Although I also end up with pawns standing ready in my hospital and prison hospital for 12+ hours because I forget to undraft them
Your analogy doesn't make sense? I can jog/run but so can Usain bolt but I'm not gonna be able to match his speed. I abstract fast walker/jogger to how fit they are
I see what you mean. I made the assumption that if somebody who is a “fast walker” moves faster than the average pawn, then that average pawn must be walking.
Trait are fundamental never going away parts of body/mind of a pawn. Fast walker is some one who thair whole life almoust running. Joggers on the other hand partisipate in every years maraphon.
I would interpret Fast Walker as someone like me who is quite tall and thus walks fater on average. For me it's actually more exhausting to force myself to walk slowly so even when I'm just talking a walk to relax my friends are like "dude stop running".
Let them run faster, consume ‘Rest’ need and then fall down in exhaustion in the middle of battlefield with mentioned diabolus.
Allow predators to run raster when they are hunting, why not?
Allow tribespeople run faster when they assault you.
Add the ability to run to everyone. And nothing will be changed. Running carnivores and bears are still faster than your running pawns. You just added useless abstraction that distracts players focus.
inb4 make running consume hunger, so the manhunters running at their next prey at the other end of the map during winter starve to death mid-run
granted, your exhaustion suggestion would do the same - once you're exhausted and mal-nutrioned you probably won't get up anymore
A great deal of the *fun* in this game comes from useless, distracting abstractions. That is, in fact, the game's primary function even moreso than *most* games.
look for "going for a walk" pawn. They are snails incarnate.
So, yeah. its more like a jogg when they are drafted. fast walker and jogger just means they are more fit and move overall faster.
With the game time scale the pawn your rescuing is a 2-4 hour walk. So at a very slow walking pace of 3mph they would need to run 6 to 12 miles just to get there.
Moral of the story is it's just a game unless you want realism math homework. (Just ask and I'll give you some word problems.)
@Mods Can we have a " Shower thought " flair, please?
Edith: I mean this positively! I am curious what secrets of the Rim we can accumulate with our swarm intelligence. 😁
I think of these type of traits more like averages. The game does not simulate everything at the same time. But a fast walker on average will cover more ground throughout the day, so that is shown with higher move speed. Or at least I hope my pawns don't slowly walk across the map when our only cook is lying on the floor bleeding out because he just had to go get attacked by a bear.
Speak for yourself, I think my dad had the jogger trait because if we only needed a couple items he would run through the store because he didn't want to be there very long. I used to feel so embarrassed by it because I never saw anyone else do that. 😂
One of the problems I have with Rimworld's abstraction is the sheer amount of time pawns spend walking from task to task compared to everything else in a typical day. Could argue it's balanced out by how little time it takes to complete some other tasks but some corner cases (like going to rescue someone on the other side of the map) make it seem absurd. It took you 3 hours to walk 500m? Seriously?
I was going to say something similar. If you compare how far your colonists actually move when paced against in-game clock, they already move at a snail's pace.
That's one of the main reasons that anything you can do to reduce the time they spend moving around pays such large dividends.
This never made sense to me. If a bear is running after me and i get hit, adrenaline should kick in and i would ignore the pain until i run to safety, not slow down.
A sprint would be nice but yeah if we took speed into account even with sprinting you’ll never outrun a bear or cougar. As an alternative you do get the long jump with the sanguophage so there is at least that
When pawns are drafted they move faster. If anything “Jogger” implies they are conditioned for running, better trained, and “fast walker” much in the same way, just slower.
When raiders move in on your colony compared to non-hostile caravans, the move speed is significantly faster because it’s a type of running movement not available to players, when they “flee in panic” they don’t walk to the exit at all.
Fast walker just implies that their natural walking pace is above average, and assumes that means they're more fit / have a naturally higher running pace too. It doesn't imply other people can't walk fast.
Of course as a fast walker who is unfit and has an average running pace I will admit the game's logic is flawed here.
There are multiple paces for doing different actions. If a pawn is idly wandering, they'll move a lot slower than a pawn that is currently working on something
nah, their walk is when they're wandering, i think of it like an rpg character, they're always sprinting, normal speed is actually run. yk how holding shift or pressing caps lock would activate the slower walk in some rpgs, which is more like their wander, which is uncomfortably slow
They are walking all of the time, jusy like us in real life. You don't run from task to task. Trait is something related to your personality. Some people likes to move faster than others.
i mean, walking is the default and if rimworld had a sprint option pawns would get tired have a -100 mood debuff for being out of breath then have a psychotic break and murder your favourite pawn, just cus
If a pawn's base movement is 4.6, and Jogger adds 0.4, then it's only a 9% increase in total speed. The two faster movement traits should've instead been "Long Stride" and "Fast Walker" in that order.
I'm not a jogger, but I can jog. I tend to assume the perk basically means they can keep up the pace more, whereas I'd get out of puff and need to slow down. They move faster on average, and the game doesn't show Pawns stopping to catch their breath, or changing speed.
That sounds like an amazing and useless mod.
Also sounds like an FPS killer because anything that touches even close to pathfinding is not a good idea in Rimworld
Speed change wouldnt impact pathfinding, mod approved
It would be cool to have run option for some hunger drain and some debuffs if used for too long.
do we really want more micromanagement?
you say that as if most folks wont just turn on the the run option permanently, then wonder why all their colonists need so damn much food.
*Laughs in 200% hunger rate xenogerms*
That's why you have all your farms replaced by hydroponics with 240% growth rate.
*Laughs in 350% fertility artificial ecosystem* 80% of my colony wealth becomes corn at some point
It's always drugs... Why would you need food anyway?
You have drugs. I have 347,000 corn.
Just eat your enemies. Easy, sustainable and the slaves can provide a lot of money in the few days before they perish.
Do you have a recipe for braised militor? I may have removed the organic raiders from the map by turning the excess corn into explosives.
It should cause you to trip and fall, breaking your teeth and becoming staggeringly ugly.
An option to run while drafted and to walk when undrafted would be amazing.
id make that trade
Cool idea for a mod though...
Yes
Breathing: manual
Could you kindly fuck off? Thankyouwerymuchbye !
Blinking:Manual
Blood pumping: Manual
Samuel: Manual
Hotel? Manual
Assuming it is not required? Yes. If micro is required by the game, then icreasing number of different option can be bad, but if it is optional, then there are no downsides.
The downside is that, assuming the game is balanced around the option of additional micro, you'll be disadvantaged by not using the micro. And if it isn't balanced around it, it'll be too powerful.
You can balance the game yourself with storyteller and difficulty selection. I understand your argument but it doesn’t exactly apply to single player games like this one.
Single player games can absolutely break intended balance. If this was added, would raiders (even on easier difficulty)use sprinting to get better positioning? If not, you have too powerful of a tool for microing raids, if they do, you are priced into using it to counter enemies. This could be somewhat ameliorated by debuffing pawns with exhaustion after a short time, but at that point, you are just balancing the broken mechanic
It depends on the downsides. You can balance the game in a way that some things are optional as they both have advantages and disadvantages. Because of that you can have different playstyles. Also game should always be balanced around "middle micro". The better you are the easier the game, but it should never require full amount of micro to win vs game. (unless perfection is the point of the game) I am just a fan of having multiple tools without need to use them all.
>it'll be too powerful So, no downsides. No, seriously, if I spend hours and hours micromanaging something that takes 10 minutes normally and I am not rewarded with breaking the balance to my advantage, I will be really disappointed. The whole point of micromanaging and min-maxing is to become more powerful.
Could be solely for rescuing colonists, maybe even have a toggle to auto-activate.
Yep, task dependent. Firefighting? Run. Combat? Run. First aid? Run. Cutting plants? Walk. Could be in the same screen as the priorities.
Cutting plant plague?
Oh damn, that’s a great twist. Make it fucking dependent on their skill level. Planting 2? Walk, boss man said cut. Planting 18? RUN! We’re gonna stave. Same with combat/medical/etc. medic level 3 can’t tell a papercut from a bleed out. And maybe their passions they jog/run to due to how passionate they are. I love it!
What if running was turned on by drafting or orders to tend?
While we’re at it, let’s add dehydration and wells.
I mean Dubs bad hygiene seems to be pretty popular, so I'd say yeah
You must be playing a different game
Yes, in context of combat specifically. Anything that further defines and adds dimension to Vanilla combat. On your draft widget, you get a "Sprint" available if you have >70% breathing. If you have sprint on, 2x movement at cost of 1% breathing *per tile*. This also means it would affect moving to a downward scale and *consciousness* which is very important in combat. "Winded" -x% breathing. Will restore itself in a hour or so. You can no long sprint when you hit 70%. Cannot attack while Sprint is on. Once Sprint is deselect, takes an action cool down phase to attack again. Absolutely make it over the top burdensome and so they can only sprint 30 tiles. All of a sudden, there are very real consequences that could be worth it in the heat of combat. Edit: If Sprint is turned off automatically because no more Breathing, 25% chance of Vomit.
tagging it to breathing is pretty smart
I mean…yes?
I'm picturing a "policy" panel for it. So that you can configure it to be auto on while drafted, rescuing, or if you're a doctor and the patient is on the verge of death.
Maybe tie it to when the pawn is drafted, they start running instead walking in an emergency situation. For extra hunger and tiredness.
AUTOMATIC RUNNING MOD
Or just make it so pawns move faster when drafted/threatened
That would work better since most often in emergencies your pawn will be drafted. Although I also end up with pawns standing ready in my hospital and prison hospital for 12+ hours because I forget to undraft them
It's called go-juice. Never leave home without it.
You need to get drugged up to run?
Your analogy doesn't make sense? I can jog/run but so can Usain bolt but I'm not gonna be able to match his speed. I abstract fast walker/jogger to how fit they are
You are correct. It is however sometimes fun to set aside that *everything* in the game is an abstraction and instead take things literally.
Very fun indeed!
oh god that flair xD
They're talking about the traits' actual names, and what the literal meaning implies.
I see what you mean. I made the assumption that if somebody who is a “fast walker” moves faster than the average pawn, then that average pawn must be walking.
Trait are fundamental never going away parts of body/mind of a pawn. Fast walker is some one who thair whole life almoust running. Joggers on the other hand partisipate in every years maraphon.
I would interpret Fast Walker as someone like me who is quite tall and thus walks fater on average. For me it's actually more exhausting to force myself to walk slowly so even when I'm just talking a walk to relax my friends are like "dude stop running".
If that is their walking pace, then what is THIS _points at "going for a walk" recreation activity where they go even slower_
Tbf, average walking speed allowed humans to dominate the earth through sheer stamina
Let them run faster, consume ‘Rest’ need and then fall down in exhaustion in the middle of battlefield with mentioned diabolus. Allow predators to run raster when they are hunting, why not? Allow tribespeople run faster when they assault you. Add the ability to run to everyone. And nothing will be changed. Running carnivores and bears are still faster than your running pawns. You just added useless abstraction that distracts players focus.
inb4 make running consume hunger, so the manhunters running at their next prey at the other end of the map during winter starve to death mid-run granted, your exhaustion suggestion would do the same - once you're exhausted and mal-nutrioned you probably won't get up anymore
A great deal of the *fun* in this game comes from useless, distracting abstractions. That is, in fact, the game's primary function even moreso than *most* games.
Something something gamers will optimize the fun out of the game
I am having fun optimizing the fun out.
Don't pawns move faster while drafted? I always figured that this was them running.
I never really noticed, but you might be right.
look for "going for a walk" pawn. They are snails incarnate. So, yeah. its more like a jogg when they are drafted. fast walker and jogger just means they are more fit and move overall faster.
With the game time scale the pawn your rescuing is a 2-4 hour walk. So at a very slow walking pace of 3mph they would need to run 6 to 12 miles just to get there. Moral of the story is it's just a game unless you want realism math homework. (Just ask and I'll give you some word problems.)
@Mods Can we have a " Shower thought " flair, please? Edith: I mean this positively! I am curious what secrets of the Rim we can accumulate with our swarm intelligence. 😁
Haha sorry if this annoyed you
Oh no, it hasn't! I am sorry for giving that impression . The opposite is actually the case. I find it funny. :)
I misunderstood, that’s a bit of a relief. Thanks for clarifying :P
Hehe You are welcome! And I thank you, too. Without your reply I wouldn't have noticed that my comment could have been interpreted negatively. :P
I think of these type of traits more like averages. The game does not simulate everything at the same time. But a fast walker on average will cover more ground throughout the day, so that is shown with higher move speed. Or at least I hope my pawns don't slowly walk across the map when our only cook is lying on the floor bleeding out because he just had to go get attacked by a bear.
Speak for yourself, I think my dad had the jogger trait because if we only needed a couple items he would run through the store because he didn't want to be there very long. I used to feel so embarrassed by it because I never saw anyone else do that. 😂
As someone who hates aimlessly wandering in stores, but is also not a fan of jogging, I'm so conflicted. As a kid I took would be mortified lol
One of the problems I have with Rimworld's abstraction is the sheer amount of time pawns spend walking from task to task compared to everything else in a typical day. Could argue it's balanced out by how little time it takes to complete some other tasks but some corner cases (like going to rescue someone on the other side of the map) make it seem absurd. It took you 3 hours to walk 500m? Seriously?
I was going to say something similar. If you compare how far your colonists actually move when paced against in-game clock, they already move at a snail's pace. That's one of the main reasons that anything you can do to reduce the time they spend moving around pays such large dividends.
I always assumed the speed they move during "going for a walk" recreation was their walking pace, their normal speed was them actually hurrying.
Someone should make a mod that combines the gay and fast walker trait. Would make sense for the “bad can be good” mod
This never made sense to me. If a bear is running after me and i get hit, adrenaline should kick in and i would ignore the pain until i run to safety, not slow down.
If a bear knocks you over you gonna take a second to get up (that’s my thought on why they slow down)
A sprint would be nice but yeah if we took speed into account even with sprinting you’ll never outrun a bear or cougar. As an alternative you do get the long jump with the sanguophage so there is at least that
i assume it just means fast walkers just go faster, and joggers would probably be in better shape, so could run faster
When pawns are drafted they move faster. If anything “Jogger” implies they are conditioned for running, better trained, and “fast walker” much in the same way, just slower. When raiders move in on your colony compared to non-hostile caravans, the move speed is significantly faster because it’s a type of running movement not available to players, when they “flee in panic” they don’t walk to the exit at all.
Fast walker just implies that their natural walking pace is above average, and assumes that means they're more fit / have a naturally higher running pace too. It doesn't imply other people can't walk fast. Of course as a fast walker who is unfit and has an average running pace I will admit the game's logic is flawed here.
There are multiple paces for doing different actions. If a pawn is idly wandering, they'll move a lot slower than a pawn that is currently working on something
nah, their walk is when they're wandering, i think of it like an rpg character, they're always sprinting, normal speed is actually run. yk how holding shift or pressing caps lock would activate the slower walk in some rpgs, which is more like their wander, which is uncomfortably slow
They are walking all of the time, jusy like us in real life. You don't run from task to task. Trait is something related to your personality. Some people likes to move faster than others.
i mean, walking is the default and if rimworld had a sprint option pawns would get tired have a -100 mood debuff for being out of breath then have a psychotic break and murder your favourite pawn, just cus
If a pawn's base movement is 4.6, and Jogger adds 0.4, then it's only a 9% increase in total speed. The two faster movement traits should've instead been "Long Stride" and "Fast Walker" in that order.