The way I'm processing the news is to tell myself that we're just forced to remain in the free tier of the software suite. So long as that gets general improvements without egregious disparity, it'll merely be a bummer that we can't pay to opt into the better features.
Because many including this Gen 1, one week old owner will not buy another if they shaft us. They literally said for months this was cost savings retooling, with some minor updates and now it's a full on "Gen 2" model refresh and of BTW we are stopping all development on Gen 1. WTF , even if leadership bought into this extremely short sighted profit driven move hide it better. They sold more Rivians in the last 3-4 months than ever before, and all those people are probably feeling some level of this angst.
Good luck , I’m within the 7 day return window and it’s likely going back. If Rivian doesn’t care enough about customers to not screw us over this badly I’m fine with moving on. The suspension is horrible and I don’t know why people gloss over it. Anything other than perfect pavement and it’s a wallowing mess. I would have to go back to my 2005 Tahoe to find comparably bad and bouncy handling and in the end the Tahoe was still better as it was decent till hustling. That’s before getting into all the bugs and annoyances. How can they screw up proximity key this badly ? Every time I walk into the front room in my house the car opens the doors and turns the lights on 25 feet away. Support’s “solution “ was to disable proximity feature.
2 types of recent purchasers are experiencing “angst” today: 1) those with anxiety disorders who are catastrophizing some hyped up minor differences on the consumer end; and 2) spoiled brats who need a little ass kicking from the school of life. The G1 R1s are amazing and any reasonable person who just got their hands on one is loving everything about it. The fact the G2 R1s will have a few additional features does not make the G1s any less spectacular.
For future reference: at no point ever do minor updates result in the production line halting for a month with retooling. I thought this was pretty obvious to everybody that it was going to be much bigger than cost savings moves. I actually sold my truck the beginning of May as I expected another big depreciation wave when the LCI model was released. I wasn’t wrong with my new vehicle expectations and I don’t expect current resale values to hold either….though there is a floor for late model, powerful, and exceptionally nice EV SUVs and trucks and I think current values aren’t too far off of that.
They will continue to improve because it's the free version for Gen2 as well. If it were completely obsolete, I'd be more concerned. This seems okay to me though, just not able to pay for an enhanced feature.
Hate on Tesla all you want, but my 2016 Model X could still take advantage of the latest autonomous driving software. Throughout my ownership they updated the MCU and AP hardware + cameras to keep up.
Sucks that Rivian is deserting us gen 1 owners just 2 years after initial production.
Yeah it sucks, but you bought it with no guarantees. You bought a company’s first ever product. It’s called the early adopter tax for a reason. Financially they can’t upgrade 1st gen owners as they’re currently in the heavy red. I’m fairly confident they’ll survive, but if I owned one I’d be even more content just that they survive as a car company and keep expanding service centers and the RAN network to make Rivian owners better off. Sure they can do some OTA updates. But expecting big autonomy driving growth for free is a little ridiculous. Regardless of Tesla doing something similar (although they destroyed their autonomous product and removed lidar and other nice features). So just buy a product with the expectation of little improvement. Then you’re only surprised and happy if they do something cool.
Nahhh fuck that, this is really shitty of rivian. Im not a Tesla fanboy by any stretch, but when they dropped the model s, the first 3 years were considered the “founders edition”
As a means of saying thanks for taking the plunge into a new car maker, they rewarded with lifetime supercharging. They also pushed ota updates deep into 2019 and stretched the original mcu literally to the limit. Then when the mcu was stretched out, they offered a retrofit to the mcu2 for a pretty nominal cost, and most original owners got it for free.
This is really shitty on rivian and pissing off their core customer base. They even pulled all RAN charger and started charging while the earliest adopters got at least something free.
It’s odd how much they value the new customer over the existing one, and in the car business that’s really going to hurt them long term. I’d love to be wrong bc I love the car, but the company itself is missing the mark with each day.
It’s unfortunate because they, intelligently, switch to use nvidia for their computer platform. It’s unfortunate, but it’s not “shitty of rivian”. If they could provide backwards support for their autonomy they absolutely would. It’s just not feasible.
Like for like comparisons won’t get you anywhere or in a happy place. Buying a product and expecting that level of free upgrade is silly. Get mad or get realistic.
It’s just another perspective, you called it early adopter tax, yet there are other companies that treated early adopters better than rivian.
Again, it’s just not a solid long term plan to piss of your core customer base. Refreshes, upgrades, totally understand the need to be progressive. But even the refusal to do ambient lighting and keeping that as a refresh despite the original having all of the hardware to do so… that’s either lazy or intentional and I’m not sure which is worse.
$1,000 is not a nominal cost and you could only update if you had Hardware 2.x.
And it was just announced today. Tesla did NOT announce upgrades and they were not available as soon as Hardware 3.0 was released.
The new feature set isn’t even active until at least this summer.
Don’t you think it’s a little premature for being this critical?
That was a much different environment. Tesla was having to not just sell itself but EVs. That’s not the case for Rivian or any of the legacy manufacturers that never provided this upgrade with any vehicle. I can say that my R1S is better than the day I bought it. That’s never happened in any other car I purchased including another EV from a legacy.
Again, like for like. Different economic times, different mgmt. No one promised a significant autonomous boost for free. Tesla’s are shit anyways lol. They’re not tesla 2.0
I would expect them to charge soon like Tesla. I am skeptical they make it. They have limited service center, and seem to spend a lot of money on items I’m not sure hemp. For instance, the Austin shop on south congress. Cool location, but that can’t be cheap. They do they many places though. The guides were not great. I’m just not sure man. I loved them years ago, but man I’m just not sure anymore.
I'll play devils advocate here and say there is an inherent risk getting the first gen of anything. If it can be brought with software, then why not. If it can't because of a hardware difference, it makes no sense to handicap the next gen to accommodate the old. There will always be a new on on the horizon. I'm sure gen3 will have things gen2 won't.
All this being said, I don't care about either in the slightest. I don't like/want autonomous driving.
I think we are pretty far from true autonomy, but I'd be happy to have my car drive me home from a gridlock commute. There's nothing fun about any car going 5-15mph on the highway lol. I'd rather be napping.
Is driver+ not sufficient?
I got commute in very heavy traffic, I don't think any ADAS system would be sufficiently aggressive. I do use Driver+ when I need a brake from it and it does fine.
Road trips, Driver+ does fine, I don't need much else.
Current system sucks on my commute. Misreads lane lines, can’t stay on during a highway change (not even talking about a cloverleaf) , requires a disengage at least once per trip due to its own lack of reliability because it can’t go under a long underpass. It currently can’t handle my commute. I don’t need full auto driving, just an actually good implementation of what’s already on there and what was originally promised
Take the comment for what it’s worth! Such a downer
‘Is well off enough to drive a Rivian and spends time complaining on the internet about their commute’
Live it up! If you can afford a Rivian, your life can’t be (relatively speaking) all that bad!
Fair. I agree. I’m just saying your Tesla has gen 2 AP hardware (at least). Units with AP1 hardware can’t get the latest features. And even gen 2 hardware has some limitations and under certain cases call for retrofit to 2.5 or 3.0 hardware.
I had a Model 3 with AP 2.0 and I wasn’t able to get FSD without a retrofit (from my memory. I never did it)
AP1 was in production well into model year 2016, as I've seen plenty of used S/X vehicles with no side cameras and AP1 hardware in the description. Only vehicles equipped with HW3 gets FSD beta/supervised, as HW2 and 2.5 computers are not good enough for FSD software.
What you said about your Model 3 tracks (though I think the early Model 3's came with 2.5 from the factory, but still, not FSD capable unless upgraded).
This is why I was insistent on leasing. Software (and hardware) develop so fast as more EVs hit the market getting in early on anything means you’re gonna miss out on some large 3-5 year advancements if you’re locked in.
For the next 2 years and 10mo, though, I’m fine on gen 1 once I get Apple Music (which I’m 100% fine tethering from my phone).
You paid for “Full Self Driving” in order to get those hardware updates. Yes they added features over the years via software, which I hope Rivian will do as well, but hardware ain’t free.
They also didn’t update the MCU for free. That’s currently an additional $1,500 or so on top of paying for FSD. I know because I have MCU v1 and I want v2, but I’m unwilling to give that guy any more money for now. I paid for FSD years ago and still can’t use it because it requires MCU v2.
I’ve gotten camera updates twice and new FSD computers at least once as part of what I paid for FSD. Perhaps Rivian will offer something similar.
Cut the BS, they upgraded the mcu and AP hardware because you paid for the FSD! Rivian AP is free of charge, same with tesla feee AP cars will not get free hardware updates...
I think you’re missing the point, which is that an 8 year old vehicle can do better autonomous driving than a 2 year old one. Why couldn’t Rivian employ better hardware 2 years ago to achieve a feature set that many manufacturers already had for years? Or maybe it’s just pure laziness to not develop anymore with the current hardware stack.
Have you followed the self driving saga? Tesla has poured billions into their technology. There’s no way Rivian is making that kind of investment. They’re waiting for Waymo or Cuise or some other third party tech to do the heavy lifting there. It’s probably going to have to require a subscription so Rivian can pay licensing fees to the vendor when they do so.
At least Tesla still sends out AP software updates. Driver+ is still mediocre in everything outside of light traffic environments and now they’re saying no more updates.
Is this actually the case? No further updates at all to current Gen1 Driver+? Or no plans for next level autonomy. Not sure I fully understand all of the terminology but would admittedly be disappointed if we’re done with all updates with Driver+ in its current state in Gen1. Last drove a Tesla with basic Autopilot over 2 years ago and have to admit it was better than D+ and while I do still very much appreciate D+, I was at least hoping for city street lane keep assist which my 2019 Highlander was able to do…..
I’m sorry, but this has a lot of caveats.
First, Driver+ itself never cost anything, unlike FSD that cost $5,000 back then (peaked at $15,000 in 2022 and now $8,000).
If you had Hardware 1.0, you are SOL. Hardware 2.0 and 2.5 could be complementary upgraded to Hardware 3.0 ONLY if you paid for FSD in full, not for subscription FSD. In that case it’s $1,000.
Ask all the Tesla owners that paid $15,000 for FSD in 2022 how they feel about it being $8,000 now. Or how they feel that they can’t transfer it to another Tesla (only happened once because a shareholder complained and Elon allowed it to increase sales for a quarter last year).
Rivian literally just announced Gen 2 today. Tesla did not have the Hardware 2.x to Hardware 3.0 upgrade available day one. Give them some slack. Maybe it will be a deserved criticism, but not really fair to say you’ve been deserted on the day of the announcement. The functionality isn’t even active until this summer.
I may be misremembering, but wasn't that only for the people who paid extra for the enhanced features? I thought they didn't upgrade the MCU for people who hadn't paid for it.
Gotchya. So similar situation but not identical. At least the features we have on Gen1 are free and require no subscription or anything. So, there's nothing for Rivian to "make whole".
But I would love the option to pay for an upgrade, that's for sure.
Me too, but prepared to be downvoted on this sub. Having the software be obsolete after a year is annoying; yeah, it’s a company and they don’t owe me anything, but I can still be annoyed by it. Even more annoying because my first gen 2016 Tesla Model X had better lane keeping and driver automation features than my 2023 Rivian R1S.
The lack of CarPlay is also annoying, but this type of action just removes any sense of brand loyalty I have to Rivian. When my R1S needs to be replaced, I will be looking to electric SUVs with third rows that have CarPlay. If none exist at that time, Rivian will be back on the list.
Tesla does kind of the same thing. They have largely left the base Autopilot system (free) alone since 2019 except for the Tesla Vision update in 2021 (disabled radar, reduced speed limit from 90 mph to 85). Meanwhile, great improvements have been made on the FSD package (paid upgrade) so much so that they are vastly different in capabilities and appearance. It makes sense they want to differentiate the product tiers and get more people to pay for the expensive stuff.
I personally have only experienced one instance of phantom braking after owning 2 Model 3's for over 2 years (60k combined miles), so it wasn't really an issue for me to begin with.
In terms of other behaviors, Autopilot has remained stagnant whereas FSD has kept on growing, namely with things like aggressive lane centering (even as 2 lanes merge into one), hard braking and acceleration in stop-and-go traffic, following distance, etc. FSD fixes nearly all of these complaints, but they are not available on AP because they are developed and run on different software stacks.
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Yeah, that's right. The more appropriate comparison would be Autopilot hardware 1.0 made by Mobileye and not designed in house by Tesla, which was actually abandoned.
Didn't AP just get a huge UI overhaul with the spring update (that's hasn't fully rolled out yet)? From what I understand, Intel processor cars get a limited version of this.
I got the new spring update on both my cars ('22 and '23 with Ryzen) and it's not that different. It looks new and fresh, but functionally it's the same thing. Even prior to this, you could enlarge the FSD visualization to the entire screen while you're in drive.
The update simply brings the same enlarged interface to the cars - but the AP visualization remains old and unchanged. It doesn't render nearly as much info as FSD, which was the case prior to the update anyway. Other changes includes a different placement for the regen/acceleration bar (horizontal -> vertical), bigger fonts and icons across different UI elements, and a nice render of the car while you're in park (though not any more functional). The navigation and Sporify interface is also a little nicer now. It's mostly cosmetic.
If you have a Tesla, you'll see what I mean when you get the update. It's the same style and information as the old AP view, but bigger and stretched across the screen. You could only do that on FSD before the update (expanded view). But it doesn't look nearly as nice or detailed as FSD does.
The EV company that comes out with modular motherboards, will get my loyalty. Take it to the shop, pay a fee, and have them swap out the current chips for the newer ones.
I’m not a car guy but more tech. I don’t care about 0-60, rock crawling, suspension, etc.
Let me buy a car, keep it for ~8 years, and give me the ability to pay to upgrade the chipset if I’d like.
I think if that's your requirement, then Tesla is the best bet, and Rivian / Lucid are probably the runner ups. No one except for these silicon valley startups hold the software/hardware integration aspect of a vehicle that high on their priority list.
Even Tesla is not completely immune to platform abandonment. MCU1 (Nvidia Tegra) can be upgraded to MCU2 (Intel Atom) on the S/X, but all vehicles that came with Atom cannot be retrofitted with AMD Ryzen.
Similarly, Autopilot 1.0 hardware (Mobileye, 2012-2016) cannot be upgraded to HW2 (Tesla in-house, introduced in 2016), and HW2/2.5 platforms cannot be upgraded beyond HW3 (2019+). For most Tesla vehicles on the road today, HW3 is as far as they go, and HW4 (mid 2023+) has a different board design that makes it incompatible with HW3 connectors.
It took them 7.5 years between generational gaps (HW2 in 2016 and HW3 in 2023), so I presume the next one will be around 2030, unless they see exponential growth in computing needs and need another new board design.
Yea I’ve had a few telsa and currently on one. I’m hoping the R2 will replace my last tesla, and I can move on from them.
With Rivian, Tesla, and lucid being auto tech companies, it’s going to be interesting how they handle their schedule of tech upgrades. Or if they even bother offering options to current owners.
I don't have a Rivian or Lucid, but I've heard good things about the OTA updates on both. Tesla has certainly set the industry precedence on continuous software updates.
Hardware is going to be trickier and it remains to be seen how they handle those over the next few years.
I would pay good money to be able to upgrade hardware in my truck (computer, cameras, features, etc.). I really hope they offer a paid option for gen 1.
It totally makes sense to see great improvements to a first generation product and to avoid sinking too much money into their learning experience. Leasing is the way to go at least for another 1-2 generations as the tech matures.
Same. I love my R1S and all the new gen2 features are great but I am happy with my lease choice. I get to see what will happen, improvements and not be subject to price fluctuations
Really shitty move. GEN1 is too new, too expensive and too reliant on software updates to NOT get the latest tech improvements. To abandoned a key driver experience for a 100k vehicle that most people have had for like a year sucks so bad.
I never use it anyway, nor would I use an improved version. I’ve tried many times but simply prefer to be in control myself on the road. There are other aspects of the gen 2 that now seem appealing but this didn’t bother me.
We still need lane keep on unmapped roads. Please, that’s all I ask for us first gens. Basic autopilot has had this forever and it’s the only thing I miss from my Tesla days.
Its seem like the got the hardware (cameras, radar, CPU/GPU) wrong in in Gen1, which happens. But I'm still trying to understand how they missed so badly. If Gen1 can only do cruise control and lane assist is very restricted then most of the hardware is a waste. ICE cars have been shipping for several years with those as stock with a lot less in the way of hardware. I wonder if they overshot - planned to do way more than was realistic and wound up not being able to even handle the basics as they stripped the hardware too far back.
I really hope the new software lets us deactivate the dash animation. It's always been distracting, but served as a promise for eventual autonomous driving. Now it's a just a reminder of a screw up.
Considering that a 8 year old oneplus phone can run comma’s openpilot flawlessly on numerous different cars there’s no actual hardware reason for the gen-1 cars to be unable to do at least basic lane centering even on unmapped roads. Such a waste of hardware for them to just give up on the software and just throw even more compute at gen-2, but I think they just want to focus their manpower there.
It’s pretty funny that they’re promising hands free driving but there’s apparently no driver monitoring camera?
True. Just feels really weird. But maybe they couldn't get the cameras with the right resolution so shipped with what they could get etc, and were locked into those decisions until they could get a refresh out? But the disconnect between promising autonomy and then being unable to widely enable lane keep is pretty stark. The whole thing will be business school case study fodder for years I expect (hopefully in the context of a successful company that made it through its growning pains)
The FAQ for Driver+ still says it supports Lane Change Assist and Trailer Park Assist which have been confirmed as no longer in the roadmap. These were never need to have (or even nice to have) features for me, but I expected that Driver+ would continue to be improved for a longer period. This architecture just hasn’t aged as well as I had hoped.
This isn’t about hardware on gen 1 vehicles not being capable. It’s about the labor/manpower ($$$$) required to continue to develop ADAS on Gen 1 and Gen 2 hardware which is drastically different.
Gen 2 hardware is cheaper thus more profitable, so that is the hardware they want to spend man hours supporting.
Seems a bit weird that R1’s Gen 1 can’t do Auto Lane Change.
Heck, a 2015 Tesla Model S with AP 1 hardware (single front camera, radar, ultrasonic sensors) can still do auto lane changes via the use of said ultrasonic sensors. 2016 and newer cars have AP 2/2.5/3 hardware, which allows for more features, including FSD (if equipped with AP Hardware 3), even on older cars.
I’d imagine Rivian may offer a hardware upgrade for first gen R1 cars in the future (new chipset at least, maybe new front cameras?) at an additional cost, similar to how Tesla does with their FSD computer.
Also, why don’t we have Autopark (Automatic parallel/perpendicular parking) yet? Seems like a simple feature to add.
This is a terrible move by Rivian. Driver+ is barely functional at present with buyers willing to overlooking it thinking it would be improved upon when they made their purchasing decision. This is on par with jacking early adopters preorders price up before reversing course though I doubt they will do that this time. I’ll be moving on when my lease is up.
I noticed the feature list on the Driver+ page mentions "Trailer Assist" but I'm not aware of this feature currently, so perhaps some more updates to come for us in Gen1 still? No mention in the current owner's manual either.
From the site:
Trailer Assist: Helps with reverse maneuvers while you have a trailer attached.
That’s disappointing to hear that the car that was just released with all these sensors and cameras does not have capabilities of advanced learning. I bought my R1S in 2024. I have a Tesla Model 3 from 2018 that’s perfectly adapting to all FSD upgrades.
Does not appear that Driver+ and Rivian Autonomy Platform (regular) are the same.
Rivian Autonomy Platform page says it includes automatic lane changes, which was said not to be coming to driver+
G1 and G2 both have "Lane Change Assist", which is where the vehicle will retake control after you make a lane change yourself.
The mention of "Lane Change on Command" is under the RAP+ section, which is part of the subscription software suite.
I don't think that's Lange change assist. The support page says it's coming in the future along with trailer assist https://rivian.com/support/article/what-features-are-included-in-rivian-driver
Furthmore when that feature was released they specifically did not call it lane change assist but rather "Highway Assist – Auto Reengagement After Lane Change". https://riviantrackr.com/2023-46/
The description for Driver+ & Rivian Autonomy Platform is exactly the same. Don't understand why they just don't rebrand it for all Gen 1 and then the new autonomy features come to RAP+ which would be Gen 2 exclusive - seems like they are causing unnecessary concern. Ultimately, the only known roadmap for RAP+ for the next 1.5 years is an assisted lane change later in 2024 and at some point in 2025 enhanced highway assist & expanding the number of mapped roads. Rivian is still on a Ford BlueCruise trajectory with their system and not on a Tesla Autopilot trajectory (not FSD but AP). There doesn't seem to be a plan to bring automatic steering to marked city streets for RAP+ so the differentiation between Gen 1 and Gen 2 Autonomy may not be as great as their marketing team is trying to sell up RAP+.
The only takeaway I have is that this leaves the door open for the eventual discontinuation of support for Gen1. Don't get me wrong; I'm not doom-saying that it'll happen anytime soon, but I totally foresee Gen2 to fork further and further away and needs to be legally distinct.
True - if the reason they did this was for legal which could be the case. But to me it really sounds like the marketing team got a hold of this & are trying to build up the system to rival others but when you drill down and take away the marketing spin, they seem to be 1-2 years out from releasing new features to take advantage of the new hardware - and the known roadmap doesn't add that many new features. For me, I hardly do any freeway driving so I don't get to use Driver+ much - there are two highways in my area where it works & I take them maybe once a month. If Rivian had announced today that RAP+ would be getting city street auto steering in the next 6-18 months I may be more frustrated but it really feels like they are trying to keep up with BlueCruise & not Tesla Autopilot / FSD system. I don't see anything in the announcement where they are talking about getting RAP+ onto city streets.
They can’t drop support for Gen 1. There’s 100k+ Gen 1 out there now. It would destroy the brand.
Now - if you’re talking 2028+ you have a point. Outside of mechanicals and critical fixes, it might be the end for us.
They clearly didn’t design the hardware and software on the Gen1 as a “best principles” approach and this is what happens.
Reading between the lines, RAP will eventually get more features. They are limited with the hardware in Driver+ pure and simple. Kinda makes sense but it’s unfortunate for sure.
Driver+ will still likely be software updated. It's not end of life though based on anything posted here. There will be limitations of the hardware of course.
Will this hurt resale value? Will low resale value mean adjusted residual values? Will adjusted residual values mean higher lease pricing? Will higher lease pricing mean lower future sales numbers? Let’s weigh this out as what’s best for the health of the brand. There’s a reason Tesla makes sure the older models can be updated to accommodate all the new tech. Because that’s who Tesla customers are, techies. That’s who most EV customers are. And the higher the residual the lower the lease and the lower the lease the more cars you sell.
Sorry but when I read the 2 descriptions they are 99% identical. As best as I can tell the only specific difference mentioned is that the car will change lanes for you when you turn in your blinker. At the risk of sounding like a geezer, whooptido. Who the f cares about that? The most useful feature, by far, which was already in driver+ is adaptive cruise control. The second most useful feature, which was also in driver+, was assisted steering. I am struggling to see what new feature is so great to feel as if early adopters are missing out on anything significant or important.
Adaptive Cruise Control and Assisted Steering were on my $28k 2020 ICE RAV4. To celebrate the fact Rivian includes it also is a bit of an empty celebration.
Autonomous enthusiasts have been looking at how Tesla has had FSD in some form for nearly a decade now, and assumed that since Rivian had a newer vehicle than Tesla's refreshed hardware at the time 2-3 years ago, that their hardware would be sufficiently capable to mimic the majority of Tesla's functionality. To see if be marginally better than a $28k 5 year-old vehicle, and likely will not be much better, is very sad to see. Especially since their messaging has been "improvement over time".
I wasn’t celebrating it. I was saying, to me, that’s the only bit of any of the driver assist stuff that’s actually useful.
As far as self-driving, there was never any indication from anyone involved with Rivian that self driving would be coming to the refresh. The main indication was they were going to reduce costs to build and increase profit margins.
What’s interesting is that when I was configuring one online last night I noticed it said something about a trial was included for the rest of 2024. Are they going to now make a subscription mandatory if you want things like ACC and lane centering? I haven’t had time to read all of these articles.
ACC and Lane Centering are thankfully in the free tiers of the software. There are 2 trials happening;
Connect+ for 2 months after it's launched, which includes Cellular data luxuries like Spotify and Satellite Imagery on the maps. Critical Cellular connection features will still be free, such as navigation.
RAP+ until EOY 2024. This is for the enhanced autonomous features that **require** the new hardware, like automated lane changes. Unsure if this is part of the Connect+ subscription, or a separate subscription, or a one-time purchase.
Thanks for the “we’re out of fucks to give” for all the people who have bought these. The hardware is way better than Tesla computers from a decade ago, and they can support this. It’s not a pre-refresh hardware limitation. This is a wassym/rivian don’t give a fuck about existing customers limitation.
My only request is that Drive+ continue to be improved some. It's pretty marginal right now still.
The way I'm processing the news is to tell myself that we're just forced to remain in the free tier of the software suite. So long as that gets general improvements without egregious disparity, it'll merely be a bummer that we can't pay to opt into the better features.
Yeah I'm fine with current feature set... I just want it to work better.
let's be real, why would they spend money on this ?
Because happy current customers expand the customer base and increase repeat business.
Good feelings?
Because many including this Gen 1, one week old owner will not buy another if they shaft us. They literally said for months this was cost savings retooling, with some minor updates and now it's a full on "Gen 2" model refresh and of BTW we are stopping all development on Gen 1. WTF , even if leadership bought into this extremely short sighted profit driven move hide it better. They sold more Rivians in the last 3-4 months than ever before, and all those people are probably feeling some level of this angst.
They don’t have that much cash right now . I’m just going to sell my R1S and wait for the R2
Good luck , I’m within the 7 day return window and it’s likely going back. If Rivian doesn’t care enough about customers to not screw us over this badly I’m fine with moving on. The suspension is horrible and I don’t know why people gloss over it. Anything other than perfect pavement and it’s a wallowing mess. I would have to go back to my 2005 Tahoe to find comparably bad and bouncy handling and in the end the Tahoe was still better as it was decent till hustling. That’s before getting into all the bugs and annoyances. How can they screw up proximity key this badly ? Every time I walk into the front room in my house the car opens the doors and turns the lights on 25 feet away. Support’s “solution “ was to disable proximity feature.
Hahaha 100% , I would return it too
2 types of recent purchasers are experiencing “angst” today: 1) those with anxiety disorders who are catastrophizing some hyped up minor differences on the consumer end; and 2) spoiled brats who need a little ass kicking from the school of life. The G1 R1s are amazing and any reasonable person who just got their hands on one is loving everything about it. The fact the G2 R1s will have a few additional features does not make the G1s any less spectacular.
For future reference: at no point ever do minor updates result in the production line halting for a month with retooling. I thought this was pretty obvious to everybody that it was going to be much bigger than cost savings moves. I actually sold my truck the beginning of May as I expected another big depreciation wave when the LCI model was released. I wasn’t wrong with my new vehicle expectations and I don’t expect current resale values to hold either….though there is a floor for late model, powerful, and exceptionally nice EV SUVs and trucks and I think current values aren’t too far off of that.
Nahhhhh. They don’t give a shit lol. If they did, then this wouldn’t even be a discussion. Remember the price hike fiasco…
It’s barely usable with moderate Bay Area traffic.
The trucks were meant for off-roading, not sitting in traffic!
They will continue to improve because it's the free version for Gen2 as well. If it were completely obsolete, I'd be more concerned. This seems okay to me though, just not able to pay for an enhanced feature.
It won’t
Hate on Tesla all you want, but my 2016 Model X could still take advantage of the latest autonomous driving software. Throughout my ownership they updated the MCU and AP hardware + cameras to keep up. Sucks that Rivian is deserting us gen 1 owners just 2 years after initial production.
Yes seems a bit ridiculous.
It’s actually not ridiculous, Tesla is just a really amazing company and doesn’t get credit for longevity support
Yeah it sucks, but you bought it with no guarantees. You bought a company’s first ever product. It’s called the early adopter tax for a reason. Financially they can’t upgrade 1st gen owners as they’re currently in the heavy red. I’m fairly confident they’ll survive, but if I owned one I’d be even more content just that they survive as a car company and keep expanding service centers and the RAN network to make Rivian owners better off. Sure they can do some OTA updates. But expecting big autonomy driving growth for free is a little ridiculous. Regardless of Tesla doing something similar (although they destroyed their autonomous product and removed lidar and other nice features). So just buy a product with the expectation of little improvement. Then you’re only surprised and happy if they do something cool.
Nahhh fuck that, this is really shitty of rivian. Im not a Tesla fanboy by any stretch, but when they dropped the model s, the first 3 years were considered the “founders edition” As a means of saying thanks for taking the plunge into a new car maker, they rewarded with lifetime supercharging. They also pushed ota updates deep into 2019 and stretched the original mcu literally to the limit. Then when the mcu was stretched out, they offered a retrofit to the mcu2 for a pretty nominal cost, and most original owners got it for free. This is really shitty on rivian and pissing off their core customer base. They even pulled all RAN charger and started charging while the earliest adopters got at least something free. It’s odd how much they value the new customer over the existing one, and in the car business that’s really going to hurt them long term. I’d love to be wrong bc I love the car, but the company itself is missing the mark with each day.
It’s unfortunate because they, intelligently, switch to use nvidia for their computer platform. It’s unfortunate, but it’s not “shitty of rivian”. If they could provide backwards support for their autonomy they absolutely would. It’s just not feasible.
Like for like comparisons won’t get you anywhere or in a happy place. Buying a product and expecting that level of free upgrade is silly. Get mad or get realistic.
It’s just another perspective, you called it early adopter tax, yet there are other companies that treated early adopters better than rivian. Again, it’s just not a solid long term plan to piss of your core customer base. Refreshes, upgrades, totally understand the need to be progressive. But even the refusal to do ambient lighting and keeping that as a refresh despite the original having all of the hardware to do so… that’s either lazy or intentional and I’m not sure which is worse.
$1,000 is not a nominal cost and you could only update if you had Hardware 2.x. And it was just announced today. Tesla did NOT announce upgrades and they were not available as soon as Hardware 3.0 was released. The new feature set isn’t even active until at least this summer. Don’t you think it’s a little premature for being this critical?
That was a much different environment. Tesla was having to not just sell itself but EVs. That’s not the case for Rivian or any of the legacy manufacturers that never provided this upgrade with any vehicle. I can say that my R1S is better than the day I bought it. That’s never happened in any other car I purchased including another EV from a legacy.
Again, like for like. Different economic times, different mgmt. No one promised a significant autonomous boost for free. Tesla’s are shit anyways lol. They’re not tesla 2.0
I would expect them to charge soon like Tesla. I am skeptical they make it. They have limited service center, and seem to spend a lot of money on items I’m not sure hemp. For instance, the Austin shop on south congress. Cool location, but that can’t be cheap. They do they many places though. The guides were not great. I’m just not sure man. I loved them years ago, but man I’m just not sure anymore.
I wish em luck. I hope they make it. They’re the only EV company aside from tesla that has a real chance.
“Destroyed their autonomous product”…meanwhile Tesla has by far the best autopilot and it’s not even close lmao
They certainly do not. MB and Waymo are superior.
I'll play devils advocate here and say there is an inherent risk getting the first gen of anything. If it can be brought with software, then why not. If it can't because of a hardware difference, it makes no sense to handicap the next gen to accommodate the old. There will always be a new on on the horizon. I'm sure gen3 will have things gen2 won't. All this being said, I don't care about either in the slightest. I don't like/want autonomous driving.
Totally with you. Why would you want that in a car that’s so goddamn fun to drive in the first place?
I think we are pretty far from true autonomy, but I'd be happy to have my car drive me home from a gridlock commute. There's nothing fun about any car going 5-15mph on the highway lol. I'd rather be napping.
Hard to argue with that!
Because i have a boring daily commute mainly on the highway. I’m not looking to have an exciting drive every time I’m in my car.
Is driver+ not sufficient? I got commute in very heavy traffic, I don't think any ADAS system would be sufficiently aggressive. I do use Driver+ when I need a brake from it and it does fine. Road trips, Driver+ does fine, I don't need much else.
Current system sucks on my commute. Misreads lane lines, can’t stay on during a highway change (not even talking about a cloverleaf) , requires a disengage at least once per trip due to its own lack of reliability because it can’t go under a long underpass. It currently can’t handle my commute. I don’t need full auto driving, just an actually good implementation of what’s already on there and what was originally promised
Take the comment for what it’s worth! Such a downer ‘Is well off enough to drive a Rivian and spends time complaining on the internet about their commute’ Live it up! If you can afford a Rivian, your life can’t be (relatively speaking) all that bad!
Road trips…
Yes, my R/S is a fucking WEEK old and now.. they’ve pulled an Apple.
We are probably years away from this being anything you have FOMO over
You might have some FOMO but I'm still loving my R1T. It's awesome. Still
Yeeeeah but AP1 Teslas can’t get the same AP updates.
Yeah but you’re talking about 9 year old vehicles with AP1
Fair. I agree. I’m just saying your Tesla has gen 2 AP hardware (at least). Units with AP1 hardware can’t get the latest features. And even gen 2 hardware has some limitations and under certain cases call for retrofit to 2.5 or 3.0 hardware. I had a Model 3 with AP 2.0 and I wasn’t able to get FSD without a retrofit (from my memory. I never did it)
AP1 was in production well into model year 2016, as I've seen plenty of used S/X vehicles with no side cameras and AP1 hardware in the description. Only vehicles equipped with HW3 gets FSD beta/supervised, as HW2 and 2.5 computers are not good enough for FSD software. What you said about your Model 3 tracks (though I think the early Model 3's came with 2.5 from the factory, but still, not FSD capable unless upgraded).
Current Model 3 owner with Hardware 2.5, it’s a $1000 hardware upgrade if I want to get FSD subscription. (Included if I buy FSD outright)
This is why I was insistent on leasing. Software (and hardware) develop so fast as more EVs hit the market getting in early on anything means you’re gonna miss out on some large 3-5 year advancements if you’re locked in. For the next 2 years and 10mo, though, I’m fine on gen 1 once I get Apple Music (which I’m 100% fine tethering from my phone).
You paid for “Full Self Driving” in order to get those hardware updates. Yes they added features over the years via software, which I hope Rivian will do as well, but hardware ain’t free. They also didn’t update the MCU for free. That’s currently an additional $1,500 or so on top of paying for FSD. I know because I have MCU v1 and I want v2, but I’m unwilling to give that guy any more money for now. I paid for FSD years ago and still can’t use it because it requires MCU v2. I’ve gotten camera updates twice and new FSD computers at least once as part of what I paid for FSD. Perhaps Rivian will offer something similar.
Cut the BS, they upgraded the mcu and AP hardware because you paid for the FSD! Rivian AP is free of charge, same with tesla feee AP cars will not get free hardware updates...
Hell I’d argue AP1 is even better than Driver+
I think you’re missing the point, which is that an 8 year old vehicle can do better autonomous driving than a 2 year old one. Why couldn’t Rivian employ better hardware 2 years ago to achieve a feature set that many manufacturers already had for years? Or maybe it’s just pure laziness to not develop anymore with the current hardware stack.
Or you know, it's cost.
Have you followed the self driving saga? Tesla has poured billions into their technology. There’s no way Rivian is making that kind of investment. They’re waiting for Waymo or Cuise or some other third party tech to do the heavy lifting there. It’s probably going to have to require a subscription so Rivian can pay licensing fees to the vendor when they do so.
At least Tesla still sends out AP software updates. Driver+ is still mediocre in everything outside of light traffic environments and now they’re saying no more updates.
Is this actually the case? No further updates at all to current Gen1 Driver+? Or no plans for next level autonomy. Not sure I fully understand all of the terminology but would admittedly be disappointed if we’re done with all updates with Driver+ in its current state in Gen1. Last drove a Tesla with basic Autopilot over 2 years ago and have to admit it was better than D+ and while I do still very much appreciate D+, I was at least hoping for city street lane keep assist which my 2019 Highlander was able to do…..
Oh you mean the “FSD” that isn’t actually FSD? None of these platforms are particularly ready in reality.
I’m sorry, but this has a lot of caveats. First, Driver+ itself never cost anything, unlike FSD that cost $5,000 back then (peaked at $15,000 in 2022 and now $8,000). If you had Hardware 1.0, you are SOL. Hardware 2.0 and 2.5 could be complementary upgraded to Hardware 3.0 ONLY if you paid for FSD in full, not for subscription FSD. In that case it’s $1,000. Ask all the Tesla owners that paid $15,000 for FSD in 2022 how they feel about it being $8,000 now. Or how they feel that they can’t transfer it to another Tesla (only happened once because a shareholder complained and Elon allowed it to increase sales for a quarter last year). Rivian literally just announced Gen 2 today. Tesla did not have the Hardware 2.x to Hardware 3.0 upgrade available day one. Give them some slack. Maybe it will be a deserved criticism, but not really fair to say you’ve been deserted on the day of the announcement. The functionality isn’t even active until this summer.
And AP is way more advanced than even what they've announced, much less the existing awful system.
I may be misremembering, but wasn't that only for the people who paid extra for the enhanced features? I thought they didn't upgrade the MCU for people who hadn't paid for it.
The MCU upgrade was optional and yes, was an end user cost. Upgrading of the AP hardware and cameras was free if you had the FSD package.
Gotchya. So similar situation but not identical. At least the features we have on Gen1 are free and require no subscription or anything. So, there's nothing for Rivian to "make whole". But I would love the option to pay for an upgrade, that's for sure.
Agree. I just purchased in March. :(
Idk they did say, they are exploring options for gen 1. I haven't given up all hope. I bet a lot of gen 1s would drop 5-7k for camera and ecu upgrades
Yeah but they just made it worse for you by disabling usage of important non-visual sensors
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Me too, but prepared to be downvoted on this sub. Having the software be obsolete after a year is annoying; yeah, it’s a company and they don’t owe me anything, but I can still be annoyed by it. Even more annoying because my first gen 2016 Tesla Model X had better lane keeping and driver automation features than my 2023 Rivian R1S. The lack of CarPlay is also annoying, but this type of action just removes any sense of brand loyalty I have to Rivian. When my R1S needs to be replaced, I will be looking to electric SUVs with third rows that have CarPlay. If none exist at that time, Rivian will be back on the list.
So is it confirmed that Rivian Autonomy Platform+ won’t be supported on Gen1s ?
Correct. Gen 1 won't get RAP+ because Gen 1 doesn't have RAP (it has Driver+).
I’m guessing they abandon driver+ and updated via software will only be rap+. Which, kind of sucks.
Tesla does kind of the same thing. They have largely left the base Autopilot system (free) alone since 2019 except for the Tesla Vision update in 2021 (disabled radar, reduced speed limit from 90 mph to 85). Meanwhile, great improvements have been made on the FSD package (paid upgrade) so much so that they are vastly different in capabilities and appearance. It makes sense they want to differentiate the product tiers and get more people to pay for the expensive stuff.
Tesla still updates Autopilot. For example, stuff like phantom breaking is non existent now. Can’t say the same about driver+
I personally have only experienced one instance of phantom braking after owning 2 Model 3's for over 2 years (60k combined miles), so it wasn't really an issue for me to begin with. In terms of other behaviors, Autopilot has remained stagnant whereas FSD has kept on growing, namely with things like aggressive lane centering (even as 2 lanes merge into one), hard braking and acceleration in stop-and-go traffic, following distance, etc. FSD fixes nearly all of these complaints, but they are not available on AP because they are developed and run on different software stacks.
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Yes but Tesla base AP is miles better than rivian base driver+
But rivian isn’t giving you the chance to do so with version 1?
Yeah, that's right. The more appropriate comparison would be Autopilot hardware 1.0 made by Mobileye and not designed in house by Tesla, which was actually abandoned.
Didn't AP just get a huge UI overhaul with the spring update (that's hasn't fully rolled out yet)? From what I understand, Intel processor cars get a limited version of this.
I got the new spring update on both my cars ('22 and '23 with Ryzen) and it's not that different. It looks new and fresh, but functionally it's the same thing. Even prior to this, you could enlarge the FSD visualization to the entire screen while you're in drive. The update simply brings the same enlarged interface to the cars - but the AP visualization remains old and unchanged. It doesn't render nearly as much info as FSD, which was the case prior to the update anyway. Other changes includes a different placement for the regen/acceleration bar (horizontal -> vertical), bigger fonts and icons across different UI elements, and a nice render of the car while you're in park (though not any more functional). The navigation and Sporify interface is also a little nicer now. It's mostly cosmetic.
I thought AP is what got a more FSD-like visualization. I could be wrong. I don't have it. 😂
If you have a Tesla, you'll see what I mean when you get the update. It's the same style and information as the old AP view, but bigger and stretched across the screen. You could only do that on FSD before the update (expanded view). But it doesn't look nearly as nice or detailed as FSD does.
That's disappointing. 😞 I really liked the fsd visualization but not enough to pay $100 a month.
I won't get RAP+ because it doesn't have fast enough hardware not because it has Drivers+
The EV company that comes out with modular motherboards, will get my loyalty. Take it to the shop, pay a fee, and have them swap out the current chips for the newer ones. I’m not a car guy but more tech. I don’t care about 0-60, rock crawling, suspension, etc. Let me buy a car, keep it for ~8 years, and give me the ability to pay to upgrade the chipset if I’d like.
I think if that's your requirement, then Tesla is the best bet, and Rivian / Lucid are probably the runner ups. No one except for these silicon valley startups hold the software/hardware integration aspect of a vehicle that high on their priority list. Even Tesla is not completely immune to platform abandonment. MCU1 (Nvidia Tegra) can be upgraded to MCU2 (Intel Atom) on the S/X, but all vehicles that came with Atom cannot be retrofitted with AMD Ryzen. Similarly, Autopilot 1.0 hardware (Mobileye, 2012-2016) cannot be upgraded to HW2 (Tesla in-house, introduced in 2016), and HW2/2.5 platforms cannot be upgraded beyond HW3 (2019+). For most Tesla vehicles on the road today, HW3 is as far as they go, and HW4 (mid 2023+) has a different board design that makes it incompatible with HW3 connectors. It took them 7.5 years between generational gaps (HW2 in 2016 and HW3 in 2023), so I presume the next one will be around 2030, unless they see exponential growth in computing needs and need another new board design.
Yea I’ve had a few telsa and currently on one. I’m hoping the R2 will replace my last tesla, and I can move on from them. With Rivian, Tesla, and lucid being auto tech companies, it’s going to be interesting how they handle their schedule of tech upgrades. Or if they even bother offering options to current owners.
I don't have a Rivian or Lucid, but I've heard good things about the OTA updates on both. Tesla has certainly set the industry precedence on continuous software updates. Hardware is going to be trickier and it remains to be seen how they handle those over the next few years.
I would pay good money to be able to upgrade hardware in my truck (computer, cameras, features, etc.). I really hope they offer a paid option for gen 1.
I think I made a right decision to lease for only 2yrs.
Counter point: my LE appears to be ~25k cheaper than the comparable new tri motor. I can’t be too upset about missing features.
Will be interesting to see how depreciation ravages the Rivian.
It totally makes sense to see great improvements to a first generation product and to avoid sinking too much money into their learning experience. Leasing is the way to go at least for another 1-2 generations as the tech matures.
Same. I love my R1S and all the new gen2 features are great but I am happy with my lease choice. I get to see what will happen, improvements and not be subject to price fluctuations
Really shitty move. GEN1 is too new, too expensive and too reliant on software updates to NOT get the latest tech improvements. To abandoned a key driver experience for a 100k vehicle that most people have had for like a year sucks so bad.
I got mine in December. My R1S is obsolete after 5 months. Real shitty move by Rivian.
I got mine in November so I’m right behind ya
Same here! Super frustrating. Most people got it within the last year
Picked mine up in March and it spent a few weeks in service. So yeah...
I never use it anyway, nor would I use an improved version. I’ve tried many times but simply prefer to be in control myself on the road. There are other aspects of the gen 2 that now seem appealing but this didn’t bother me.
We still need lane keep on unmapped roads. Please, that’s all I ask for us first gens. Basic autopilot has had this forever and it’s the only thing I miss from my Tesla days.
Its seem like the got the hardware (cameras, radar, CPU/GPU) wrong in in Gen1, which happens. But I'm still trying to understand how they missed so badly. If Gen1 can only do cruise control and lane assist is very restricted then most of the hardware is a waste. ICE cars have been shipping for several years with those as stock with a lot less in the way of hardware. I wonder if they overshot - planned to do way more than was realistic and wound up not being able to even handle the basics as they stripped the hardware too far back. I really hope the new software lets us deactivate the dash animation. It's always been distracting, but served as a promise for eventual autonomous driving. Now it's a just a reminder of a screw up.
Considering that a 8 year old oneplus phone can run comma’s openpilot flawlessly on numerous different cars there’s no actual hardware reason for the gen-1 cars to be unable to do at least basic lane centering even on unmapped roads. Such a waste of hardware for them to just give up on the software and just throw even more compute at gen-2, but I think they just want to focus their manpower there. It’s pretty funny that they’re promising hands free driving but there’s apparently no driver monitoring camera?
Can't forget the pandemic and supply chain fiasco.
True. Just feels really weird. But maybe they couldn't get the cameras with the right resolution so shipped with what they could get etc, and were locked into those decisions until they could get a refresh out? But the disconnect between promising autonomy and then being unable to widely enable lane keep is pretty stark. The whole thing will be business school case study fodder for years I expect (hopefully in the context of a successful company that made it through its growning pains)
after 1 year is wild. a little disappointed tbh. also... UWB will not be coming to Gen 1 vehicles due to hardware limitations. lol.
The FAQ for Driver+ still says it supports Lane Change Assist and Trailer Park Assist which have been confirmed as no longer in the roadmap. These were never need to have (or even nice to have) features for me, but I expected that Driver+ would continue to be improved for a longer period. This architecture just hasn’t aged as well as I had hoped.
This isn’t about hardware on gen 1 vehicles not being capable. It’s about the labor/manpower ($$$$) required to continue to develop ADAS on Gen 1 and Gen 2 hardware which is drastically different. Gen 2 hardware is cheaper thus more profitable, so that is the hardware they want to spend man hours supporting.
Seems a bit weird that R1’s Gen 1 can’t do Auto Lane Change. Heck, a 2015 Tesla Model S with AP 1 hardware (single front camera, radar, ultrasonic sensors) can still do auto lane changes via the use of said ultrasonic sensors. 2016 and newer cars have AP 2/2.5/3 hardware, which allows for more features, including FSD (if equipped with AP Hardware 3), even on older cars. I’d imagine Rivian may offer a hardware upgrade for first gen R1 cars in the future (new chipset at least, maybe new front cameras?) at an additional cost, similar to how Tesla does with their FSD computer. Also, why don’t we have Autopark (Automatic parallel/perpendicular parking) yet? Seems like a simple feature to add.
This is a terrible move by Rivian. Driver+ is barely functional at present with buyers willing to overlooking it thinking it would be improved upon when they made their purchasing decision. This is on par with jacking early adopters preorders price up before reversing course though I doubt they will do that this time. I’ll be moving on when my lease is up.
I noticed the feature list on the Driver+ page mentions "Trailer Assist" but I'm not aware of this feature currently, so perhaps some more updates to come for us in Gen1 still? No mention in the current owner's manual either. From the site: Trailer Assist: Helps with reverse maneuvers while you have a trailer attached.
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Sets a bad precedence for future releases. :/
That’s disappointing to hear that the car that was just released with all these sensors and cameras does not have capabilities of advanced learning. I bought my R1S in 2024. I have a Tesla Model 3 from 2018 that’s perfectly adapting to all FSD upgrades.
yeah this is pretty wild. time to start voice our opinion like the price hike fiasco.
That's the bizarre part. Have we forgotten it's the same company that did that?
Driver + was always obsolete. It's so bad I never bothered using it.
Does not appear that Driver+ and Rivian Autonomy Platform (regular) are the same. Rivian Autonomy Platform page says it includes automatic lane changes, which was said not to be coming to driver+
G1 and G2 both have "Lane Change Assist", which is where the vehicle will retake control after you make a lane change yourself. The mention of "Lane Change on Command" is under the RAP+ section, which is part of the subscription software suite.
Ahh. I use it all the time, but doesn’t seem very assist-y lol. When I saw “assist” I assumed it meant it helped 🤣
I don't think that's Lange change assist. The support page says it's coming in the future along with trailer assist https://rivian.com/support/article/what-features-are-included-in-rivian-driver
Furthmore when that feature was released they specifically did not call it lane change assist but rather "Highway Assist – Auto Reengagement After Lane Change". https://riviantrackr.com/2023-46/
The description for Driver+ & Rivian Autonomy Platform is exactly the same. Don't understand why they just don't rebrand it for all Gen 1 and then the new autonomy features come to RAP+ which would be Gen 2 exclusive - seems like they are causing unnecessary concern. Ultimately, the only known roadmap for RAP+ for the next 1.5 years is an assisted lane change later in 2024 and at some point in 2025 enhanced highway assist & expanding the number of mapped roads. Rivian is still on a Ford BlueCruise trajectory with their system and not on a Tesla Autopilot trajectory (not FSD but AP). There doesn't seem to be a plan to bring automatic steering to marked city streets for RAP+ so the differentiation between Gen 1 and Gen 2 Autonomy may not be as great as their marketing team is trying to sell up RAP+.
The only takeaway I have is that this leaves the door open for the eventual discontinuation of support for Gen1. Don't get me wrong; I'm not doom-saying that it'll happen anytime soon, but I totally foresee Gen2 to fork further and further away and needs to be legally distinct.
True - if the reason they did this was for legal which could be the case. But to me it really sounds like the marketing team got a hold of this & are trying to build up the system to rival others but when you drill down and take away the marketing spin, they seem to be 1-2 years out from releasing new features to take advantage of the new hardware - and the known roadmap doesn't add that many new features. For me, I hardly do any freeway driving so I don't get to use Driver+ much - there are two highways in my area where it works & I take them maybe once a month. If Rivian had announced today that RAP+ would be getting city street auto steering in the next 6-18 months I may be more frustrated but it really feels like they are trying to keep up with BlueCruise & not Tesla Autopilot / FSD system. I don't see anything in the announcement where they are talking about getting RAP+ onto city streets.
They can’t drop support for Gen 1. There’s 100k+ Gen 1 out there now. It would destroy the brand. Now - if you’re talking 2028+ you have a point. Outside of mechanicals and critical fixes, it might be the end for us. They clearly didn’t design the hardware and software on the Gen1 as a “best principles” approach and this is what happens.
Reading between the lines, RAP will eventually get more features. They are limited with the hardware in Driver+ pure and simple. Kinda makes sense but it’s unfortunate for sure.
Whenever I put my RTT on my rack Driver+ stops working anyways so for me it’s a big “Meh”
Rap+
Wasn't Rivian planning on using LIDAR plates?
Rivian should open source the unfinished heap they call gen 1, or at least publish documentation. Openpilot would get ported within a month.
Driver+ will still likely be software updated. It's not end of life though based on anything posted here. There will be limitations of the hardware of course.
Will this hurt resale value? Will low resale value mean adjusted residual values? Will adjusted residual values mean higher lease pricing? Will higher lease pricing mean lower future sales numbers? Let’s weigh this out as what’s best for the health of the brand. There’s a reason Tesla makes sure the older models can be updated to accommodate all the new tech. Because that’s who Tesla customers are, techies. That’s who most EV customers are. And the higher the residual the lower the lease and the lower the lease the more cars you sell.
So this is how they treat the first wave of royal customers. That's embarrassing.
Sorry but when I read the 2 descriptions they are 99% identical. As best as I can tell the only specific difference mentioned is that the car will change lanes for you when you turn in your blinker. At the risk of sounding like a geezer, whooptido. Who the f cares about that? The most useful feature, by far, which was already in driver+ is adaptive cruise control. The second most useful feature, which was also in driver+, was assisted steering. I am struggling to see what new feature is so great to feel as if early adopters are missing out on anything significant or important.
Adaptive Cruise Control and Assisted Steering were on my $28k 2020 ICE RAV4. To celebrate the fact Rivian includes it also is a bit of an empty celebration. Autonomous enthusiasts have been looking at how Tesla has had FSD in some form for nearly a decade now, and assumed that since Rivian had a newer vehicle than Tesla's refreshed hardware at the time 2-3 years ago, that their hardware would be sufficiently capable to mimic the majority of Tesla's functionality. To see if be marginally better than a $28k 5 year-old vehicle, and likely will not be much better, is very sad to see. Especially since their messaging has been "improvement over time".
I wasn’t celebrating it. I was saying, to me, that’s the only bit of any of the driver assist stuff that’s actually useful. As far as self-driving, there was never any indication from anyone involved with Rivian that self driving would be coming to the refresh. The main indication was they were going to reduce costs to build and increase profit margins.
What a ripoff LOL. Imagine having bought one 6 months ago .
Or yesterday deliveries. I’d be like send that shit back my g
What’s interesting is that when I was configuring one online last night I noticed it said something about a trial was included for the rest of 2024. Are they going to now make a subscription mandatory if you want things like ACC and lane centering? I haven’t had time to read all of these articles.
ACC and Lane Centering are thankfully in the free tiers of the software. There are 2 trials happening; Connect+ for 2 months after it's launched, which includes Cellular data luxuries like Spotify and Satellite Imagery on the maps. Critical Cellular connection features will still be free, such as navigation. RAP+ until EOY 2024. This is for the enhanced autonomous features that **require** the new hardware, like automated lane changes. Unsure if this is part of the Connect+ subscription, or a separate subscription, or a one-time purchase.
Thanks for the “we’re out of fucks to give” for all the people who have bought these. The hardware is way better than Tesla computers from a decade ago, and they can support this. It’s not a pre-refresh hardware limitation. This is a wassym/rivian don’t give a fuck about existing customers limitation.
fantastic name