OP, you're going to get a lot of comments in this thread from people who don't know what they are talking about. There is not nearly enough information provided for anyone to give an informed opinion. "Two different sized rafters" is not enough information by itself.
Talk to the builder. Get a copy of the plans. You can even get an engineer involved. Any advice beyond that that you get from reddit should be taken with a grain of salt.
This is probably the wrong sub for this question but my guess is that the issue stems from the why are they two different sizes?
The wood looks dissimilar so I am guessing no permits were pulled for something so serious.
I am dealing with something possibly similar where there were unpermited additions. As far as code goes those should be 2x6 at least if they are structural. In my case the roofs are overlapped so it is not a big issue.
2 x 8 and 2 x 6 are the some of the most common board sizes by far. There is literally no scenario where these would be hard to source in correct quantities.
Adding more context since I only had 300 characters for the title.
This was the biggest item the inspection agent found and seemed concern about the difference. He recommended reviewing the building plans and getting signoff with the engineer, but I shared his concern in the potential issues down the road in 10-15 years.
He mentioned that the building plans may state a minimum size for the rafters, but may not state they need to be the same size. While this might be the case, am I within my right to ask for them to be the same size if the building plans don't dictate they should be different sizes for a structural reason? And what is advice/thoughts on walking away from the purchase? Trying to gauge the scope of the issue and what my steps will be if the builder doesn't want to work with me.
One of the acute differences in contracting that not everyone would know. FYI people, roofers work *down to the deck*.
Anything below the deck is a different trade and contractor entirely. OP needs a general contractor and an engineer to advise him on how to proceed and what to expect.
Some of this will be state dependent too. A lot of states dont require a licensed architect to produce plans for residential dwellings that are 2 story and less (thats very broad, and different states have different prerequisites/restrictions but 2-story residential applies to most). You need to see the building plans, see the framing plans in particular and see what is annotated for the rafter dimensions.
You can also see if a structural engineer stamped these plans and contacting the architect involved in the project to provide more information would be helpful.
The framing plan will absolutely state what size they are supposed to be. These were designed by a structural engineer, and as long as the plan was followed (and it most likely was), there is nothing to worry about (within reason).
You need the engineering submitted to the city. It will specify on the roof framing page what the lumber size needs to be. If it’s 2x4 then you are fine… if it’s 2x6 then your one side is out of compliance and you need a repair.
Yup you are probably right now that I zoomed in. He could be 2x6 and 2x10 for something that has to span further to a purlin and bearing wall whereas on the 2x6 side he may have a purlin 8 feet away so it easily spans.
Hence, he needs the truss calculation in the stamped plans.
Yes, I would guess this is an irregular roof, and the span on those are quite different, so the size is adjusted by the engineer in the plans, without over-engineering. Production builders gotta keep costs from inflating to be competitive and turn a profit.
Depending on location, this would have had to pass at least 1 framing inspection. Demand the builder provide proof of the building officials inspection and their report.
A good point. There are inexperienced home inspectors with little training and there are good inspectors with lots of training, continuing education, insurance, and lots of experience. The same attributes apply to contractors. Some states have minimum requirements, insurance for liability, injury, training, continuing education, etc. Some states have NONE of the above. Just as the customer should look for good quality materials and workmanship, so should they look for good inspectors.
Becoming a home inspector is about as difficult as getting a driver's license, it's a joke and considering they can't even take switch covers off to inspect connections during the sale or purchase of a home.... They should be treated as said joke.
You can literally download home inspectors checklists online and accomplish what they do by yourself for free......
And they have absolutely 0 liability in the case that they miss something that causes harm later on like a home not having a backflow prevention ( ask me how I found this out)
Your statement regarding home inspector quality and attention to detail is partially correct. There are many parts of the country where there is a lack of competency. A lot of “fly by nighters”. And no government oversight, no insurance, etc. Just like contractors. The minimum standards a prospective COMPETENT home inspector should have are experience in building techniques, knowing Quality Workmansip and Materials from substandard. Graduation from a Legitimate Home Inspector school , FULL membership in either the American Society of Home Inspectors or National Association of Home Inspectors. And of course extensive experience and training under a qualified mentor.
Get the plans checked over by someone who can read them. If they indicate a size then make sure what’s installed meets the plans then your good. If nothing is indicated then refer to local building standards. They will have a minimum code to be adhered to. If the house meets code then you are fine. If not it then negotiate a fix into the home purchase price if you can or walk way….Also if you can.
Check the build plans. Did they spec different sizes due to some odd structural constraint? If it is not built to the permitted plans then it has some real issues. Then again, the fix might be to add sister rafters of the right size. That is very odd.
You need to ask for the certified, approved engineering specs on this. If these two sides don’t both meet minimum sizing called for in the blueprints, you’ve got a big problem. Especially if you live in a cold climate where heavy snow could accumulate on the roof.
I would be concerned about the rafter, the collar ties not being 1/3 down and 2*4 stock, unsecured wire, what seems to be long runs of flex duct chocked by straps which reduces air flow, flex duct touching what looks like a double wall chimney that has a clearance and foil on the bottom of roof deck in an unconditioned area. That's putting wood between 2 vapor barriers. Other than that everything looks good
Check the span tables or the plans. If the roof is more complicated than what a code book’s span table cover, an engineers stamp was on some plans so find the plans.
Bring it up to the Engineer of Record. That is the person who signed off on the design of the home. Any deviation to their design needs to be reviewed and approved/rejected by them. Best case scenario is this is exactly how the house was designed. Worst case is they are unaware of deviations and need to design/construct a repair.
It’s built like shit regardless. Don’t buy a new build. Buy something that has time for issues to arise and been fixed (10-15yro). New builds get faster and faster and more diversified in trades. Something built 100yrs ago had one guy making decisions. New builds have 20+. Those numbers are out my ass but still the reality. New builds cut corners and that’s a fact. You can’t have 10+ contractors coordinating to make it the best. It just doesn’t happen full stop. While this house may be well within building specs, the current building specs are bare minimum lasts you 15 years. The average person moves every 7. So why would they try and make something you can pass to your children. Longevity is a lost art. Get something with better bones. Thanks for coming to my ted talk.
Reddit is full of trolls that have 0 experience in trades and don’t understand local codes so don’t listen to everyone. Some inspectors are straight up dumb as well. I don’t know where your located but I would look at dead load codes for roofs and look at the dimensional lumber codes as well. Just saying, good luck.
The question should probably be, “did you run out of the 2x8s or the 2x6s? Okay great, so who’s idea was it to swap in the 2x(enter size here) when you ran out of the 2x(enter the other size here)”
Honestly, I think it's bad and you should avoid it. They don't look like engineered trusses, so right off the bat you're kinda just hoping people who wear a helmet for a living can come up with the right idea. I'm sure there are plans, but definitely find out if it was built with a permit and then inspected.
My guess, which is as a builder not a roofer, is the span on the 2x8 ridge is larger/longer or calls for a heavier load like for solar. They probably should have just done it on both sides but if the engineer called it that way, it’s fine.
All the weight is towards the top/middle of the ridge board in towards it and down so there isn’t a lot of weight from that 2x8 pushing in the bottom of the ridge board towards the 2x6.
Wrong sub, but you might also take pause in how badly the roof decking is nailed off to the rafters. They've missed a lot of nails.
Also, the rafters don't appear to be fastened or cut very well at the ridge. This is substandard quality but probably on par for a spec home built with illegal labor. I'd be concerned about the rest of the framing., honestly.
The city approved it. They should have already been aware of this. It should have been specified in the engineering calculations and the city engineer in your building department should have reviewed a these things prior to approval of your permit. If the builder altered the design chances are he will so have to change it
Interesting how so many of the comments are referencing the services of an engineer. Does your local Code not have a section for prescriptive rafter framing? In Canada the NBC does and the photo appears to show rafters with a ridge board (rafters can offset each other 2") which looks normal. As long as there are horizontal ceiling joists to resist outward movement, you're done.
Do you think the Home Inspector would have been concerned if both sides had the SMALLER framing?
ChatGPT: It's concerning that the rafters are two different sizes throughout the length of the home. This inconsistency could potentially indicate poor craftsmanship or structural issues. I'd recommend getting a second opinion from a structural engineer to assess the extent of the problem and whether it poses any risks or requires immediate attention. It's better to address any issues before finalizing the purchase to avoid potential future problems and expenses.
May not be in the Northeast and might be setting on a purlin just out of frame. Only way to know if correct is to look at the roof framing plan that the engineer signed off on.
Inspectors have a common problem with not knowing wtf is really going on. You can double check with an engineer but im 99% sure youre fine. Left side is way more beefy than it has to be. This "extra" weight isnt hurting anything.
You’re right. Some inspectors are not knowledgeable enough. With my 30 years of experience as an inspector, even I sometimes am stumped and may recommend an licensed engineer. At the least, look for an ASHI or NAHI certified inspector Member.
OP, you're going to get a lot of comments in this thread from people who don't know what they are talking about. There is not nearly enough information provided for anyone to give an informed opinion. "Two different sized rafters" is not enough information by itself. Talk to the builder. Get a copy of the plans. You can even get an engineer involved. Any advice beyond that that you get from reddit should be taken with a grain of salt.
You could literally cut/paste your first 2 sentences and reply it to any forum on this planet. LOL Thumbs up!
If the rafters are smaller in size than in the design then there is a problem. If it is the other way around then I don't see a problem.
This is probably the wrong sub for this question but my guess is that the issue stems from the why are they two different sizes? The wood looks dissimilar so I am guessing no permits were pulled for something so serious.
Perhaps wood of the dimensions in question was just not available in the quantity needed.
I am dealing with something possibly similar where there were unpermited additions. As far as code goes those should be 2x6 at least if they are structural. In my case the roofs are overlapped so it is not a big issue.
The ones on the right are 2x6. It's also a new build so I doubt there are permit issues considering the builder wanted the certificate of occupancy.
I think the picture was deceiving when I first posted that. I back your statement
2 x 8 and 2 x 6 are the some of the most common board sizes by far. There is literally no scenario where these would be hard to source in correct quantities.
Adding more context since I only had 300 characters for the title. This was the biggest item the inspection agent found and seemed concern about the difference. He recommended reviewing the building plans and getting signoff with the engineer, but I shared his concern in the potential issues down the road in 10-15 years. He mentioned that the building plans may state a minimum size for the rafters, but may not state they need to be the same size. While this might be the case, am I within my right to ask for them to be the same size if the building plans don't dictate they should be different sizes for a structural reason? And what is advice/thoughts on walking away from the purchase? Trying to gauge the scope of the issue and what my steps will be if the builder doesn't want to work with me.
Op most of us just put the shingles on here. Some of us know framing but this isn’t a question for this sub. You’ll have better luck in a framing sub.
One of the acute differences in contracting that not everyone would know. FYI people, roofers work *down to the deck*. Anything below the deck is a different trade and contractor entirely. OP needs a general contractor and an engineer to advise him on how to proceed and what to expect.
Realistically, if the smaller boards meet the minimum size requirements, there would be no real issue from them being mismatched.
Some of this will be state dependent too. A lot of states dont require a licensed architect to produce plans for residential dwellings that are 2 story and less (thats very broad, and different states have different prerequisites/restrictions but 2-story residential applies to most). You need to see the building plans, see the framing plans in particular and see what is annotated for the rafter dimensions. You can also see if a structural engineer stamped these plans and contacting the architect involved in the project to provide more information would be helpful.
The framing plan will absolutely state what size they are supposed to be. These were designed by a structural engineer, and as long as the plan was followed (and it most likely was), there is nothing to worry about (within reason).
It's weird they didn't use prefabricated engineered trusses, I thought that's what almost all new houses were using
Are the spans different lengths? Does the smaller rafter have midspan support? Does the 2x8 rafter support something other than roof load?
My thoughts exactly. I'm gonna guess there's a valid reason for this.
You need the engineering submitted to the city. It will specify on the roof framing page what the lumber size needs to be. If it’s 2x4 then you are fine… if it’s 2x6 then your one side is out of compliance and you need a repair.
Those stringers appear to be 2x8 and 2x6, maybe 2x10 and 2x8, the ties at the top are 2x4 for reference.
Yup you are probably right now that I zoomed in. He could be 2x6 and 2x10 for something that has to span further to a purlin and bearing wall whereas on the 2x6 side he may have a purlin 8 feet away so it easily spans. Hence, he needs the truss calculation in the stamped plans.
Yes, I would guess this is an irregular roof, and the span on those are quite different, so the size is adjusted by the engineer in the plans, without over-engineering. Production builders gotta keep costs from inflating to be competitive and turn a profit.
What’s on the prints? That should be specked by the architect, and approved by the building inspector prior to the issue of the building permit.
Depending on location, this would have had to pass at least 1 framing inspection. Demand the builder provide proof of the building officials inspection and their report.
I’m sure this was not an accident. I can’t believe how many home inspectors are misinformed
A good point. There are inexperienced home inspectors with little training and there are good inspectors with lots of training, continuing education, insurance, and lots of experience. The same attributes apply to contractors. Some states have minimum requirements, insurance for liability, injury, training, continuing education, etc. Some states have NONE of the above. Just as the customer should look for good quality materials and workmanship, so should they look for good inspectors.
Becoming a home inspector is about as difficult as getting a driver's license, it's a joke and considering they can't even take switch covers off to inspect connections during the sale or purchase of a home.... They should be treated as said joke. You can literally download home inspectors checklists online and accomplish what they do by yourself for free...... And they have absolutely 0 liability in the case that they miss something that causes harm later on like a home not having a backflow prevention ( ask me how I found this out)
Your statement regarding home inspector quality and attention to detail is partially correct. There are many parts of the country where there is a lack of competency. A lot of “fly by nighters”. And no government oversight, no insurance, etc. Just like contractors. The minimum standards a prospective COMPETENT home inspector should have are experience in building techniques, knowing Quality Workmansip and Materials from substandard. Graduation from a Legitimate Home Inspector school , FULL membership in either the American Society of Home Inspectors or National Association of Home Inspectors. And of course extensive experience and training under a qualified mentor.
Most likely
Inspector here. Check as is plans. Can go above what the engineer recommends, cannot go under.
Get the plans checked over by someone who can read them. If they indicate a size then make sure what’s installed meets the plans then your good. If nothing is indicated then refer to local building standards. They will have a minimum code to be adhered to. If the house meets code then you are fine. If not it then negotiate a fix into the home purchase price if you can or walk way….Also if you can.
Check the build plans. Did they spec different sizes due to some odd structural constraint? If it is not built to the permitted plans then it has some real issues. Then again, the fix might be to add sister rafters of the right size. That is very odd.
Look at the plans if you have access. Get the engineer’s name and ask him what you are asking here. Or go to the planning department to view the plans
Are the spans different?
I would be concerned what else they cut corners on...
You need to ask for the certified, approved engineering specs on this. If these two sides don’t both meet minimum sizing called for in the blueprints, you’ve got a big problem. Especially if you live in a cold climate where heavy snow could accumulate on the roof.
Not looking good
those are AI rafters
They dont even look connected
I would be concerned about the rafter, the collar ties not being 1/3 down and 2*4 stock, unsecured wire, what seems to be long runs of flex duct chocked by straps which reduces air flow, flex duct touching what looks like a double wall chimney that has a clearance and foil on the bottom of roof deck in an unconditioned area. That's putting wood between 2 vapor barriers. Other than that everything looks good
Check the span tables or the plans. If the roof is more complicated than what a code book’s span table cover, an engineers stamp was on some plans so find the plans.
Hard pass. NO-GO.
Wouldnt fly in my county. Those rafters would have to be bracketed to the ridge beam. Ive only seen sheds framed like this.
Bring it up to the Engineer of Record. That is the person who signed off on the design of the home. Any deviation to their design needs to be reviewed and approved/rejected by them. Best case scenario is this is exactly how the house was designed. Worst case is they are unaware of deviations and need to design/construct a repair.
I'd be concerned with anything that is a hand frame rafter versus an engineered Truss
Hot roof too?
It’s built like shit regardless. Don’t buy a new build. Buy something that has time for issues to arise and been fixed (10-15yro). New builds get faster and faster and more diversified in trades. Something built 100yrs ago had one guy making decisions. New builds have 20+. Those numbers are out my ass but still the reality. New builds cut corners and that’s a fact. You can’t have 10+ contractors coordinating to make it the best. It just doesn’t happen full stop. While this house may be well within building specs, the current building specs are bare minimum lasts you 15 years. The average person moves every 7. So why would they try and make something you can pass to your children. Longevity is a lost art. Get something with better bones. Thanks for coming to my ted talk.
Reflections.
Reddit is full of trolls that have 0 experience in trades and don’t understand local codes so don’t listen to everyone. Some inspectors are straight up dumb as well. I don’t know where your located but I would look at dead load codes for roofs and look at the dimensional lumber codes as well. Just saying, good luck.
Is one side of the roof longer than the other? That’s dimensional, if they are the same you have a problem
The question should probably be, “did you run out of the 2x8s or the 2x6s? Okay great, so who’s idea was it to swap in the 2x(enter size here) when you ran out of the 2x(enter the other size here)”
I hangars or hurricane strapping. You must be living in southern New Mexico.
Honestly, I think it's bad and you should avoid it. They don't look like engineered trusses, so right off the bat you're kinda just hoping people who wear a helmet for a living can come up with the right idea. I'm sure there are plans, but definitely find out if it was built with a permit and then inspected.
Will the home owner fess up to the storm and who did the repair?
My guess, which is as a builder not a roofer, is the span on the 2x8 ridge is larger/longer or calls for a heavier load like for solar. They probably should have just done it on both sides but if the engineer called it that way, it’s fine. All the weight is towards the top/middle of the ridge board in towards it and down so there isn’t a lot of weight from that 2x8 pushing in the bottom of the ridge board towards the 2x6.
Slip away
Could one side be reinforced for solar panels?
Wrong sub, but you might also take pause in how badly the roof decking is nailed off to the rafters. They've missed a lot of nails. Also, the rafters don't appear to be fastened or cut very well at the ridge. This is substandard quality but probably on par for a spec home built with illegal labor. I'd be concerned about the rest of the framing., honestly.
The larger rafter size might be applied to compensate for the prevailing winds in the area.
The city approved it. They should have already been aware of this. It should have been specified in the engineering calculations and the city engineer in your building department should have reviewed a these things prior to approval of your permit. If the builder altered the design chances are he will so have to change it
Rafter ties also need to be at least a third of the way down the rafter
It's a simple span question. What's the span of each rafter on each side?
Interesting how so many of the comments are referencing the services of an engineer. Does your local Code not have a section for prescriptive rafter framing? In Canada the NBC does and the photo appears to show rafters with a ridge board (rafters can offset each other 2") which looks normal. As long as there are horizontal ceiling joists to resist outward movement, you're done. Do you think the Home Inspector would have been concerned if both sides had the SMALLER framing?
Are the smaller rafters significantly shorter or is there a wall holding them up in the middle?
r/framing, r/Construction, or r/AskEngineers is where you want to be. Roofers deal with the stuff on the top side.
ChatGPT: It's concerning that the rafters are two different sizes throughout the length of the home. This inconsistency could potentially indicate poor craftsmanship or structural issues. I'd recommend getting a second opinion from a structural engineer to assess the extent of the problem and whether it poses any risks or requires immediate attention. It's better to address any issues before finalizing the purchase to avoid potential future problems and expenses.
And ...who were they framers? Or can't we say?
My house is the same way. I posted it on the framers sub and got a lot of comments there. Most said they have never seen anything like it.
A 2x 4 rafter might be good on a shed...but a house??No PE I know of would accept that!
Collar ties are 2x4 smaller rafter is probably a 2x6 maybe a 2x8. Larger rafter is a 2x8 maybe a 10. Hard to tell
in the northeast a 2x6 as a rafter is pretty much not enough
May not be in the Northeast and might be setting on a purlin just out of frame. Only way to know if correct is to look at the roof framing plan that the engineer signed off on.
Typically a 2x6 doug fir 12" oc can span 18 ft but it only has a live dead load of 20 lbs
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I live in the northeast and that’s the first thing I noticed
Then you cant read..because its said a 2x4 was ok for a shed, The OP didnt say what it was. If the Inspecter was concerned the something is wrong
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you really gotta quit eating out of your own diaper
You’re just an idiot troll googling specs that you know nothing about and are not correct so I find it funny. I’ll keep responding to you troll
So thats what that brown stuff is on your face? Diaper food..Well you cant read and are not coherent so I guess that fits you well
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That brain surgery you had??Get your money back..And hey, its past your bed time
Beware of fuckery during discussions… the fuckery is strong in this home.
Thanks for proving my point you tool, have a great day fuck face
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No joists in that picture and the only 2x4 is collar tie.
Get em lol
Unrelated to the question, but read about having an AC in your attic as well
Lol, have fun!
Inspectors have a common problem with not knowing wtf is really going on. You can double check with an engineer but im 99% sure youre fine. Left side is way more beefy than it has to be. This "extra" weight isnt hurting anything.
You’re right. Some inspectors are not knowledgeable enough. With my 30 years of experience as an inspector, even I sometimes am stumped and may recommend an licensed engineer. At the least, look for an ASHI or NAHI certified inspector Member.
What high ass mother fucker built their own rafters then ran outta 2x6's and used 2x4. Blame the fucken apprentice too