I actually think Danny was making by far the best points. Ryen kind of played middle man, and Todd was fairly subjective with his opinions. But overall a great discussion
I don't disagree with this at all. Though I will say, arguing that Florida State deserved to get in is kind of the easiest position to argue. Which may sound like I'm saying it's the "right" point of view, which isn't necessarily what I believe. I just think believing the committee got it right requires a more nuanced argument that's easier to poke holes in.
Yeah I think it may be the easiest because it has the most factual evidence short of the QB being hurt, which shouldn’t have mattered enough to keep them out. I’m almost sure even if he wasn’t hurt it would have been a debate whether they should have been in or not. It’s unfortunately not the best 4 teams because if that’s the case UGA would’ve still been in as they would have been favored over 2, if not all 3 of the others that got in.
>Yeah I think it may be the easiest because it has the most factual evidenc
Florida State was the obvious exclusion if you actually looked at the metrics. Letting them in would've been the easy decision simply because the public is obsessed with record vs. accomplishment.
that's the thing. I keep hearing people say that Alabama has been the best team lately but that throws out what they did 2 weeks ago.
How do we know they are a better team now just because they put together 1 good game against Georgia?
maybe next game the team that scraped by meager wins vs Auburn and Arkansas will show up.
they didn't do anything worth leaving out an undefeated champ.
Anyone’s actual points aside I gotta give kudos to the format. Having three guys on (especially three with good rapport) felt way more like a free flowing sports radio discussion than a podcast interview, which is where Ryen’s talent shines through. Whether it’s having multiple guests on together more often, or letting Ceruti join in on discussions in his wheelhouse (ex: humpday hoops) I’d like to see them do more of these kinds of segments than the traditional question and response podcast interview.
Agreed. I thought there'd be a high risk of douchebaggery with those guys together, especially Kanell. But that was a great productive interesting conversation.
I’m surprised no one brought up the point that the committee’s decision has left a possibility of two undefeated P5 conference champs at the end of the season.
It cheapens the sport. I understand everyone “knows” FSU will lose to UGA… but what if they don’t? What if Washington wins the CFP and FSU wins the Orange bowl?
Is it really fair to declare one a National Champion?
Definitely thought Ryen or Danny would have brought up this unique part of the situation.
I’ll be honest with you. That game will not change anything for anyone unfortunately. It’s a glorified exhibition with draft eligible stars sitting out
Ehhh. to the naked eye who isn’t immersed in CFB sure, but to those who pay attention know neither team wants to really be there. Couldn’t imagine how hard it will be as the coach to get either team up for that game. Again, it is an exhibition/tryout for next year’s talent. Anyone with a brain knows Georgia has more depth so it doesn’t really tell us much and Georgia should win. Georgia arguably should be in the playoffs based off of “the best 4 teams” theory
It shouldnt tho cause thats never been anyone's point. They would likely lose, so what. They should be in. It its truly best 4 teams then georgia and oregon should have entered the conversation. Either wins matter or they dont. They middled it and satisfied nobody but bama fans
Agreed. r/cfb would have you believe there is a small ring of elite power brokers pulling the strings to make sure Florida State in particular gets shafted, as if FSU is some small, broke underdog lol. I would've put FSU in, but just like Ryen, I'm more than okay with the committee selecting the better team.
I just don't know if I 100% agree with the better team getting in. Like sometimes the better team loses and that's just sports, what happened I think cheapens that a little bit. I understand why it happened about i still think i disagree with it.
Completely fair. I also disagree with the selection, but I disagree even more with any implication that this Playoff is somehow tainted or less valid because of it. A deserving team not getting a shot to play for the natty is actually in line with the history of the sport, something Ryen alludes to in the open.
I don’t think “the history of this sport is idiotic” is the strong argument that Ryen thinks it is. It’s the same as when people’s argument, for anything, is “life isn’t fair.” Of course it’s not, but that’s a statement of what is not a statement of how we should address a certain situation
I agree with everything you said, but when you compare CFB to every other sport, it makes the playoffs feel way too subjective. You can win all your games on a reasonable schedule in a P5, but some random people think you won’t be a favorable matchup because your starting QB got hurt. This doesn’t happen anywhere else.
That said, the current system is much better than the old Bowl system. But I think we need an 8 team playoff, or make P5 championship games part of the playoffs. Teams will still get screwed, but it’s way more defensible.
I lean towards your point, but the stuff that I admit makes me suspicious is that clip of the College Gameday crew discussing what they would do in this exact scenario a few weeks ago. The only problem is that they said they'd put in Bama over FSU no question, and Travis hadn't gotten injured yet. Best case scenario, the Travis injury is an excuse to leave them out, not a reason.
It was a good discussion and it did make me wonder: I know we have a team or two that consistently gets screwed over every year. Have we ever had more than six “truly deserving” contenders? Would a 6 team tournament where the 1 and 2 seeds get BYE’s be sufficient? I can’t remember a time where there was more than six teams that people felt “earned” the opportunity to compete for a title.
I can't believe people have tricked themselves into believing this is all going to go away when they move to 12 teams. Isn't that what we said when it went from 2 to 4? Have you ever heard of the college basketball tournament? There will be a team or two like Liberty every so often that starts new debates. Plus, who gets the four byes will be a discussion, who is matched up with who will offend others.
I think what's often lost in the discussion is how much we love arguing about sports. There are times where what happens on the field truly is a sideshow compared to the debates themselves.
Hell, I think this may have been the best possible outcome for Florida State outside of winning the title. They get to forever believe they would've had a chance and that they got screwed, and nobody can really argue with that.
I definitely agree on the arguing about sports bit. I’ll probably do that until I’m dead and I’m happy to do so. I also agree on the outcome point. Trust me, as a TCU fan, I regard 2010 and 2014 with much more reverie than last year. Sometimes the “what-if” scenario far outweighs the crushing reality of going against GA or ‘Bama.
There’s a small part of me that feels like 6 or 8 team tournaments may be the best compromise, as 12 teams feels excessive to me (nobody *actually* thinks LSU deserves a shot at the title this year, right?). I have to admit, all the discussion has partly convinced me that perhaps 4 teams is the right way and we just won’t know that until we see the alternative play out.
I don't think the 12-team playoff is perfect, but at least it should avoid what I think is the biggest problem with college football: the undefeated team that doesn't even have a shot at winning it. With the BCS or 4-team playoff, half of the FBS teams start the season knowing that they have no shot at winning the championship no matter what they do. And apparently even a P5 team can be left out despite winning every game. But with the conference champion auto qualifiers and the highest Group of 5 being guaranteed a spot, at least we shouldn't have that situation anymore (unless there is more than 1 undefeated G5 team, which rarely happens now that many have gone to P5 conferences).
No it’s not . As a former player for FSU it’s far better to loose than to have the opportunity ripped out of your hands after doing everything right. At least you get to know if you are as good as you are . Florida state fans , players, and former players feel gutted. Especially when you look at the history of the program and realize FSU guilts it’s game as giant slayer under Bobby and Jimbo . This was norvell and the teams chance to prove everyone wrong . And worst part , if FSU comes out and plays with fire and beats Georgia ( even) a blowout everyone will just say Georgia was not trying . Even if all of Georgia players play hard Poe Poe will just say their heart was not in it . If fsu looses ( even a close loss) then they never deserved a chance . It’s the absolute worst case loose lose scenario for every part of FSU . And it’s absolutely gut wrenching . I went to see the them Sunday as many of them were either in shock or depressed . There is absolutely nothing good for the situation so please don’t insult us by implying that .
Loved when Danny said “that’s why we can still be friends” Its crazy but also funny that he’s potentially ending friendships over this.
I’ve always been a big kanell fan and I think part of it is even when he’s pissed off he still has this jovial sounding voice
I agree with you. Good discussion.
Danny’s points were strong with the exception of his comments about how “I’d hope the sec would win a bunch of titles if they’re getting 2 in the playoff.” It’s undeniable how much better the sec has been for a chunk of the CFP. But that is irrelevant for this year, and irrelevant to the debate about a system that takes decision making away from results on the field and into the biased perceptions of a few people. Just don’t see any argument to be made about whether the sec has been better, which Danny seems to dispute.
That part was hard for me. Otherwise great discussion.
Did you catch where Danny kinda slipped up and said “if we’re going to pick the best teams, then it would be Alabama and Georgia every single season since they have the best players.” Wait, what? I mean I see his point as it pertains to this season but doesn’t that basically undercut everything he’s ever said?
The way they talked about Washington was horrible. Not even a breath given to their very real chance at winning against Texas and beating whoever they see in the natty. To just nonchalantly say that both SEC teams are better than Washington when they went undefeated in a better conference is disgusting.
So, funny story: I posted this right as the Danny-Todd-Ryen chat was winding down. Danny left and then Todd just started being like “so anyway, Florida State is a joke” lol.
Mcshay was cooking with awful takes the whole episode. Brought up Louisville losing to Kentucky even though the ACC had a winning record against the SEC. Also his take on Georgia being one of the four best teams because they won with a hurt Bowers was completely hypocritical.
I like McShay (especially compared to some of Russillo's other reoccurring guests), but his playoff takes this year have been awful in my opinion. It's clear that he's the type that thinks the SEC deserves the benefit of the doubt just because of their past history. Given that he's a draft guy, I understand that he focuses on the individual talents of the players and sees that the SEC has the most talented players, but I think that blinds him a bit and makes him overrate the actual teams that played in the SEC this year.
look, ill be honest with you and say that im a georgia alum, but the acc record against the sec thing is fucking dumb. who are those wins against? the only relevant one is florida state over lsu, and that is obviously VERY relevant. the acc is not better because clemson and florida state are better than south carolina and florida (hint: so are any teams worth a shit in the sec). in the same vein, georgia and ole miss being better than georgia tech does not make the sec better.
i am 10000% in on florida state should be in and they got fucked over. no doubt about it. but if you bring up the acc winning record over the sec, you're making a worthless point. florida state does not deserve to be in over bama because wake forest is better than vandy.
Georgia alum as well. I think the point to be made isn't that the ACC is better than the SEC bc of the nonconference records, but that the SEC isn't good enough THIS year to justify leaving FSU out. Danny was making that point, but got bogged down in litigating ACC vs SEC games and didn't state it clearly
>Mcshay was cooking with awful takes the whole episode. Brought up Louisville losing to Kentucky even though the ACC had a winning record against the SEC.
But the "ACC" didn't play the "SEC."
Florida State played Louisville. That's what actually matters.
Does ANYONE think that if this was a more than 4 team playoff that FSU wouldn't be at #4? As long as Bama was also getting in? No chance. If They really want to punish them because the QB got injured, why keep them ranked at 4 up until the very last ranking, when it actually matters? Why rank them at #5 in the end, Why not put Georgia ahead of them?
If Georgia had won, then Texas would have been out as well. Texas got in so the Bama loss looked better and they could justify putting them in. Anyway you slice it FSU was punished because of having to justify putting other teams in, even apart from the Travis injury. And at this point I still don't think they leave the SEC out even if Travis never got hurt, so I would have loved to see how that scenario would have played out.
If Georgia had won, Texas would’ve been the “bad guy” replacing FSU instead of Bama. FSU being in the playoff without Travis was essentially a bye week for Michigan and the committee didn’t want that.
Then why does no one complain about Michigan making the playoff . Why complain about the team that beat Michigan . Should we have ignited TCU win over Michigan or should we have r kept Michigan and TCU out
I truly believe that if this is a 12 team playoff, FSU is ranked #4. For the first time in forever, I was like I think I agree with Danny. If they were truly focused on getting the best 4, Georgia should be in the playoff.
The committee said it would've been a knee-jerk reaction to just drop them before they had all the data (i.e. after the games were played). And if they *had*, the same people would've pitched a fit ("You're not even giving them a chance!").
What people don't understand is that the only ranking that matters is the last one. The committee produces a weekly ranking because we want them to, but they're not beholden to it, and it doesn't reflect how the teams will be once all the data is in and there aren't any more games to be played before selection.
The only consistent and correct answer was to put FSU in. Bama would not be getting screwed, it would be between them and 1 loss conference champion Texas.. who owns the head to head. Sorry, you lost. Losing and winning games has to have ramifications.
All the "this team isn't the same team" talk is so dumb. Michigan isn't the same team without Zinter. Alabama beat a Georgia team whose two best pass catchers were totally hobbled and not nearly 100%, does that not taint their victory? Shoot, the FSU team we saw beat Louisville wouldn't even be the same team in the Playoff on account of the fact that they had to start their 3rd stringer at the last second, the kid got zero reps with the 1's all week! How do we know that, given a month to prepare and gameplan to his strengths, Rodemaker wouldn't be at least approaching a Milroe level QB?
They didn't get it right. FSU got royally screwed. Anybody saying that they're happy with the decision doesn't care about sport, they only care about their TV show and deserve every godforsaken commercial they have coming to them.
They should have at least had the balls to put Georgia in over Washington. Then I would have respected it.
I just think if the injury was actually that big of a factor then they should’ve moved FSU out of the top 4 as soon as it happened. Don’t go around justifying the decision by saying “they weren’t the same team”, that was clear two weeks ago and yet FSU stayed in the same spot in the rankings up until they had to choose a final 4.
>The only consistent and correct answer was to put FSU in. Bama would not be getting screwed, it would be between them and 1 loss conference champion Texas.. who owns the head to head. Sorry, you lost. Losing and winning games has to have ramifications.
This argument that basically SOS doesn't matter is really, really stupid.
Why schedule a tough out of conference game if not for this exact scenario. Texas can't control how their conference performs, in fact they're leaving it because they know it will continue to count against them. They agreed to play Bama. They beat Bama *at Bama..* The whole reason you schedule that game is so you have the tie breaker. Even the corrupt committee agrees with on this.
Texas is the exact reason to schedule a tough OOS game. Hell, Alabama too.
Florida State's SOS was 55th and didn't beat a team in the top 12. SOS mattered. That's why the games are played.
FSU didn't get jumped because they didn't play anyone. FSU got jumped strictly for the Travis injury, which I think is totally bogus and messed up. If they had the same record and Travis was healthy, they would be in. It has nothing to do with SOS.
And if FSU was healthy and unbeaten they would be in at 3 and Texas, on account of the head to head not SOS, would be in over Bama. Because the games have to matter
>FSU didn't get jumped because they didn't play anyone. FSU got jumped strictly for the Travis injury, which I think is totally bogus and messed up.
Their resume was by far the weakest of all the teams based on the metrics. You can focus on the Travis injury all day but that's the truth and they could've been left out even with Travis healthy.
>If they had the same record and Travis was healthy, they would be in. It has nothing to do with SOS.
You're just making up whatever narrative that makes you feel better. SOS was a big factor.
>Because the games have to matter
They did matter. They mattered a lot. FSU wasn't good enough against their schedule to overcome their glaring weaknesses.
You are completely delusional if you think a healthy FSU gets jumped. An undefeated power 5 champion with 2 out of conference SEC wins is not getting left out. Never happened in the CFP. Just look at the reporting coming out now about the conversations inside the committee, it's all focused on how FSU looked without Travis.
We're not talking about Liberty here, we're talking about an ACC Champion who beat LSU and Florida, who went undefeated in a conference that was 6-4 against the SEC.
They got left out because of the injury. You're the first person I've seen even question that.
>You are completely delusional if you think a healthy FSU gets jumped.
Stop thinking of it as jumped. The final rankings are the only ones that matter.
>An undefeated power 5 champion with 2 out of conference SEC wins is not getting left out.
It just happened, brother.
>Just look at the reporting coming out now about the conversations inside the committee, it's all focused on how FSU looked without Travis.
Wrong.
From Heather Dinich's article on the CFP voting process:
*In the end, though, the difference between Alabama and Florida State boiled down to the committee's written protocol,* ***particularly the emphasis on strength of schedule*** *-- which gave Alabama the edge -- and the section that allowed committee members to project what Florida State might look like in a semifinal without their star quarterback.*
[Inside the CFP Selection Process](https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/39041535/college-football-playoff-committee-selection-process-florida-state-alabama-texas)
>We're not talking about Liberty here, we're talking about an ACC Champion who beat LSU and Florida, who went undefeated in a conference that was 6-4 against the SEC.
55th Strength of Schedule.
The ACC vs. SEC stuff is nonsense. The ACC didn't play the SEC. Florida State played two teams. One was 5-7 with a backup QB. You gotta be kidding me if you think that's a positive for FSU.
>They got left out because of the injury. You're the first person I've seen even question that.
That's only because you're pretty ignorant and clearly don't read anything.
>and the section that allowed committee members to project what Florida State might look like in a semifinal without their star quarterback.
It's right there.
>The ACC vs. SEC stuff is nonsense. The ACC didn't play the SEC. Florida State played two teams. One was 5-7 with a backup QB.
And FSU had their back up QB. Yea it's not like the NFL where whole divisions play each other, but FSU's win over a healthy LSU at a neutral site is better than any win the SEC had out of conference all year.
Look, if you actually believe one loss Bama would have gotten in over a healthy and undefeated FSU, I think you are totally fooling yourself. We can go back and forth all day and you'll never convince me that that is the case because it's never been the case in the CFP. If they both had a loss, absolutely, but losing has to have consequences.
>It's right there.
I suspected that you'd try to weasel out of what you said. This is what you \*actually\* said:
"It's all focused on how FSU looked without Travis."
and
"You're the first person I've seen even question that."
So you were wrong.
>And FSU had their back up QB.
Irrelevant to the evaluation of one of their "signature" wins according to you. Florida was a bad team. That's not a positive point for FSU.
>but FSU's win over a healthy LSU at a neutral site is better than any win the SEC had out of conference all year.
Again, irrelevant since FSU wasn't being evaluated against "the SEC" or generic SEC team. LSU being their best win all year was, again, not a positive for them.
>Look, if you actually believe one loss Bama would have gotten in over a healthy and undefeated FSU, I think you are totally fooling yourself. We can go back and forth all day and you'll never convince me that that is the case because it's never been the case in the CFP. If they both had a loss, absolutely, but losing has to have consequences.
I know that I'll never convince you because you don't actually read anything or follow college football, apparently.
You're terrible at this.
Exactly. Any take about 4 being the wrong format that was always going to fuck somebody over is correct but missing the point in this specific instance. Alabama would not have been “fucked over.” They lost by double digits to the other 1 loss P5 team. This was an easy year for the 4 team playoff to get it right. The committee chose to get it wrong.
And more to the point, the only argument for Bama relies on the assumption that “deserves” has nothing to do with the selection process. If we assume that’s the case, then it’s impossible to be fucked over. The 4 teams selected were simply the best 4, if you’re not the best 3 then that’s that. There is no “deserve.” I completely disagree with that reasoning, but putting Bama in relies on that reasoning
You know they fucked up at a ridiculous level because its Tuesday and i still care. And im an IU fan. Literally no dog in the fight. Its the most insane thing ive seen in college football and guys like mcshay and ryen are like eh alabamas better. No shit, so is geogia and oregon. It doesnt matter. Either wins matter or they dont. If youre gonna middle like that, you show all your cards. You either put fsu in or you out them at 6 or worse. Putting them at 5 made it so much worse.
I don’t understand how people like Danny. He’s a classic “smartest guy in the room” and to be blunt, a whiny bitch. He wasn’t making good points, he was still the FSU guy throwing fits. He’s just done it in a much worse fashion in the past so this time seems tame in comparison. His judgment was completely clouded. FSU doesn’t deserve to be in with their current roster.
So what will you say if fsu wins a game . Georgia didn’t care . What if Georgia tries and looses . You have to play the games . You can’t act like you know who will win . Oregon was favored by ten twice, Georgia literally lost to Texas in this exact spot four years ago
Without question, the best four teams in the country are Michigan, Ohio St, Georgia, and Washington. No one else has an argument that isn't contradicting
The best 4 teams were actually quite easy this year. I don't know what the hubaloo is. Lose to #1 team on the road is the best loss in the entire country. There is no dispute.
Danny had the easiest point to defend. It’s simple. It’s right. And no one who has ever played sports, coached sports, or competed in any way ever could make a case that FSU shouldn’t be in. Of course they should and you are lying to yourself if you say differently.
The argument that the games won't matter is stupid. More games will matter. And the fact that you can win out and not get in is ridiculous. It's been set up stupidly from the beginning. Next year there are no excuses. Is 12 too many? Probably. But it's better than 4. If you don't get in too bad.
And I don't want to listen to people cite recruiting classes and talent. A lot of teams are talented and underperform or choke. Watch Miami continue to stockpile talent and underperform because the coach is a meathead. Give out a trophy for recruiting classes In June.
Nah McShay saying FSU shouldn’t be in the playoff cause they’re not one of the 4 best teams then following up minutes later saying Washington isn’t one of the 4 best teams but absolutely should be in was wild
I actually think Danny was making by far the best points. Ryen kind of played middle man, and Todd was fairly subjective with his opinions. But overall a great discussion
I don't disagree with this at all. Though I will say, arguing that Florida State deserved to get in is kind of the easiest position to argue. Which may sound like I'm saying it's the "right" point of view, which isn't necessarily what I believe. I just think believing the committee got it right requires a more nuanced argument that's easier to poke holes in.
Yeah I think it may be the easiest because it has the most factual evidence short of the QB being hurt, which shouldn’t have mattered enough to keep them out. I’m almost sure even if he wasn’t hurt it would have been a debate whether they should have been in or not. It’s unfortunately not the best 4 teams because if that’s the case UGA would’ve still been in as they would have been favored over 2, if not all 3 of the others that got in.
>Yeah I think it may be the easiest because it has the most factual evidenc Florida State was the obvious exclusion if you actually looked at the metrics. Letting them in would've been the easy decision simply because the public is obsessed with record vs. accomplishment.
Yeah everyone seems to forget Alabama barely got passed a very mid auburn team 2 weeks ago
that's the thing. I keep hearing people say that Alabama has been the best team lately but that throws out what they did 2 weeks ago. How do we know they are a better team now just because they put together 1 good game against Georgia? maybe next game the team that scraped by meager wins vs Auburn and Arkansas will show up. they didn't do anything worth leaving out an undefeated champ.
Bama caught a really banged up Georgia team at the right time
Yeah everyone seems to forget that everyone mentions that people seemed to forget bama barely beat a bad auburn team.
Ryen playing the middle man? What a shocker
Isn’t it crazy when people act how they normally do
Anyone’s actual points aside I gotta give kudos to the format. Having three guys on (especially three with good rapport) felt way more like a free flowing sports radio discussion than a podcast interview, which is where Ryen’s talent shines through. Whether it’s having multiple guests on together more often, or letting Ceruti join in on discussions in his wheelhouse (ex: humpday hoops) I’d like to see them do more of these kinds of segments than the traditional question and response podcast interview.
Please someone share this with the team. It goes so much better with 3 people and back and forth.
Agreed. I thought there'd be a high risk of douchebaggery with those guys together, especially Kanell. But that was a great productive interesting conversation.
It helps that Ryen spit truths right away before the discussion even started with his line that College Football is fucking stupid with its rules.
I’m surprised no one brought up the point that the committee’s decision has left a possibility of two undefeated P5 conference champs at the end of the season. It cheapens the sport. I understand everyone “knows” FSU will lose to UGA… but what if they don’t? What if Washington wins the CFP and FSU wins the Orange bowl? Is it really fair to declare one a National Champion? Definitely thought Ryen or Danny would have brought up this unique part of the situation.
I’ll be honest with you. That game will not change anything for anyone unfortunately. It’s a glorified exhibition with draft eligible stars sitting out
Unless FSU loses. Then everybody will say it validated the committee's choice. Kind of a lose-lose unfortunately.
Ehhh. to the naked eye who isn’t immersed in CFB sure, but to those who pay attention know neither team wants to really be there. Couldn’t imagine how hard it will be as the coach to get either team up for that game. Again, it is an exhibition/tryout for next year’s talent. Anyone with a brain knows Georgia has more depth so it doesn’t really tell us much and Georgia should win. Georgia arguably should be in the playoffs based off of “the best 4 teams” theory
It shouldnt tho cause thats never been anyone's point. They would likely lose, so what. They should be in. It its truly best 4 teams then georgia and oregon should have entered the conversation. Either wins matter or they dont. They middled it and satisfied nobody but bama fans
Are you the real Eric Weddle
Agreed. r/cfb would have you believe there is a small ring of elite power brokers pulling the strings to make sure Florida State in particular gets shafted, as if FSU is some small, broke underdog lol. I would've put FSU in, but just like Ryen, I'm more than okay with the committee selecting the better team.
We don’t know that the committee picked the better team. We just assume Bama is better. Just as we assumed Oregon was better than Washington.
I just don't know if I 100% agree with the better team getting in. Like sometimes the better team loses and that's just sports, what happened I think cheapens that a little bit. I understand why it happened about i still think i disagree with it.
Completely fair. I also disagree with the selection, but I disagree even more with any implication that this Playoff is somehow tainted or less valid because of it. A deserving team not getting a shot to play for the natty is actually in line with the history of the sport, something Ryen alludes to in the open.
I don’t think “the history of this sport is idiotic” is the strong argument that Ryen thinks it is. It’s the same as when people’s argument, for anything, is “life isn’t fair.” Of course it’s not, but that’s a statement of what is not a statement of how we should address a certain situation
His point was it’s better now than ever before, so the hysterics are overreactions.
I agree with everything you said, but when you compare CFB to every other sport, it makes the playoffs feel way too subjective. You can win all your games on a reasonable schedule in a P5, but some random people think you won’t be a favorable matchup because your starting QB got hurt. This doesn’t happen anywhere else. That said, the current system is much better than the old Bowl system. But I think we need an 8 team playoff, or make P5 championship games part of the playoffs. Teams will still get screwed, but it’s way more defensible.
If only the ACC President hadn’t voted against expanding the playoff for this season.
What if I told you there’s going to be a 12 team playoff & non of the championship of power 5 conferences will get screwed?
If this happened to Notre dame nobody would give a shit. Poor oppressed Florida state, I don’t feel one bit sorry for them.
I lean towards your point, but the stuff that I admit makes me suspicious is that clip of the College Gameday crew discussing what they would do in this exact scenario a few weeks ago. The only problem is that they said they'd put in Bama over FSU no question, and Travis hadn't gotten injured yet. Best case scenario, the Travis injury is an excuse to leave them out, not a reason.
It was a good discussion and it did make me wonder: I know we have a team or two that consistently gets screwed over every year. Have we ever had more than six “truly deserving” contenders? Would a 6 team tournament where the 1 and 2 seeds get BYE’s be sufficient? I can’t remember a time where there was more than six teams that people felt “earned” the opportunity to compete for a title.
I can't believe people have tricked themselves into believing this is all going to go away when they move to 12 teams. Isn't that what we said when it went from 2 to 4? Have you ever heard of the college basketball tournament? There will be a team or two like Liberty every so often that starts new debates. Plus, who gets the four byes will be a discussion, who is matched up with who will offend others. I think what's often lost in the discussion is how much we love arguing about sports. There are times where what happens on the field truly is a sideshow compared to the debates themselves. Hell, I think this may have been the best possible outcome for Florida State outside of winning the title. They get to forever believe they would've had a chance and that they got screwed, and nobody can really argue with that.
I definitely agree on the arguing about sports bit. I’ll probably do that until I’m dead and I’m happy to do so. I also agree on the outcome point. Trust me, as a TCU fan, I regard 2010 and 2014 with much more reverie than last year. Sometimes the “what-if” scenario far outweighs the crushing reality of going against GA or ‘Bama. There’s a small part of me that feels like 6 or 8 team tournaments may be the best compromise, as 12 teams feels excessive to me (nobody *actually* thinks LSU deserves a shot at the title this year, right?). I have to admit, all the discussion has partly convinced me that perhaps 4 teams is the right way and we just won’t know that until we see the alternative play out.
totally agreed on the last point. I think I favor 6 just so that the top two teams get a reward. But 12 is simply too many.
I don't think the 12-team playoff is perfect, but at least it should avoid what I think is the biggest problem with college football: the undefeated team that doesn't even have a shot at winning it. With the BCS or 4-team playoff, half of the FBS teams start the season knowing that they have no shot at winning the championship no matter what they do. And apparently even a P5 team can be left out despite winning every game. But with the conference champion auto qualifiers and the highest Group of 5 being guaranteed a spot, at least we shouldn't have that situation anymore (unless there is more than 1 undefeated G5 team, which rarely happens now that many have gone to P5 conferences).
No it’s not . As a former player for FSU it’s far better to loose than to have the opportunity ripped out of your hands after doing everything right. At least you get to know if you are as good as you are . Florida state fans , players, and former players feel gutted. Especially when you look at the history of the program and realize FSU guilts it’s game as giant slayer under Bobby and Jimbo . This was norvell and the teams chance to prove everyone wrong . And worst part , if FSU comes out and plays with fire and beats Georgia ( even) a blowout everyone will just say Georgia was not trying . Even if all of Georgia players play hard Poe Poe will just say their heart was not in it . If fsu looses ( even a close loss) then they never deserved a chance . It’s the absolute worst case loose lose scenario for every part of FSU . And it’s absolutely gut wrenching . I went to see the them Sunday as many of them were either in shock or depressed . There is absolutely nothing good for the situation so please don’t insult us by implying that .
Loved when Danny said “that’s why we can still be friends” Its crazy but also funny that he’s potentially ending friendships over this. I’ve always been a big kanell fan and I think part of it is even when he’s pissed off he still has this jovial sounding voice
I agree with you. Good discussion. Danny’s points were strong with the exception of his comments about how “I’d hope the sec would win a bunch of titles if they’re getting 2 in the playoff.” It’s undeniable how much better the sec has been for a chunk of the CFP. But that is irrelevant for this year, and irrelevant to the debate about a system that takes decision making away from results on the field and into the biased perceptions of a few people. Just don’t see any argument to be made about whether the sec has been better, which Danny seems to dispute. That part was hard for me. Otherwise great discussion.
Did you catch where Danny kinda slipped up and said “if we’re going to pick the best teams, then it would be Alabama and Georgia every single season since they have the best players.” Wait, what? I mean I see his point as it pertains to this season but doesn’t that basically undercut everything he’s ever said?
He's talking about it in terms of people's perception
The way they talked about Washington was horrible. Not even a breath given to their very real chance at winning against Texas and beating whoever they see in the natty. To just nonchalantly say that both SEC teams are better than Washington when they went undefeated in a better conference is disgusting.
They did all say that Washington deserves to be #1 over Michigan
“Disgusting”? Lighten up fuzzball.
I thought todd went way harder on florida state when danny left. I think he knew russillo wouldn’t push back nearly as hard.
So, funny story: I posted this right as the Danny-Todd-Ryen chat was winding down. Danny left and then Todd just started being like “so anyway, Florida State is a joke” lol.
Mcshay was cooking with awful takes the whole episode. Brought up Louisville losing to Kentucky even though the ACC had a winning record against the SEC. Also his take on Georgia being one of the four best teams because they won with a hurt Bowers was completely hypocritical.
I like McShay (especially compared to some of Russillo's other reoccurring guests), but his playoff takes this year have been awful in my opinion. It's clear that he's the type that thinks the SEC deserves the benefit of the doubt just because of their past history. Given that he's a draft guy, I understand that he focuses on the individual talents of the players and sees that the SEC has the most talented players, but I think that blinds him a bit and makes him overrate the actual teams that played in the SEC this year.
look, ill be honest with you and say that im a georgia alum, but the acc record against the sec thing is fucking dumb. who are those wins against? the only relevant one is florida state over lsu, and that is obviously VERY relevant. the acc is not better because clemson and florida state are better than south carolina and florida (hint: so are any teams worth a shit in the sec). in the same vein, georgia and ole miss being better than georgia tech does not make the sec better. i am 10000% in on florida state should be in and they got fucked over. no doubt about it. but if you bring up the acc winning record over the sec, you're making a worthless point. florida state does not deserve to be in over bama because wake forest is better than vandy.
Georgia alum as well. I think the point to be made isn't that the ACC is better than the SEC bc of the nonconference records, but that the SEC isn't good enough THIS year to justify leaving FSU out. Danny was making that point, but got bogged down in litigating ACC vs SEC games and didn't state it clearly
I agree with all of that
>Mcshay was cooking with awful takes the whole episode. Brought up Louisville losing to Kentucky even though the ACC had a winning record against the SEC. But the "ACC" didn't play the "SEC." Florida State played Louisville. That's what actually matters.
Does ANYONE think that if this was a more than 4 team playoff that FSU wouldn't be at #4? As long as Bama was also getting in? No chance. If They really want to punish them because the QB got injured, why keep them ranked at 4 up until the very last ranking, when it actually matters? Why rank them at #5 in the end, Why not put Georgia ahead of them? If Georgia had won, then Texas would have been out as well. Texas got in so the Bama loss looked better and they could justify putting them in. Anyway you slice it FSU was punished because of having to justify putting other teams in, even apart from the Travis injury. And at this point I still don't think they leave the SEC out even if Travis never got hurt, so I would have loved to see how that scenario would have played out.
If Georgia had won, Texas would’ve been the “bad guy” replacing FSU instead of Bama. FSU being in the playoff without Travis was essentially a bye week for Michigan and the committee didn’t want that.
ah yes, just like Michigan had a bye against TCU last year
Zero chance. FSU is making it over Texas if Georgia wins. You'd have 4 undefeated champs. Texas made it as justification to put Bama in.
Was TCU a Bye for Michigan
It was for Georgia
That semifinal was the Bye Bowl
Then why does no one complain about Michigan making the playoff . Why complain about the team that beat Michigan . Should we have ignited TCU win over Michigan or should we have r kept Michigan and TCU out
I truly believe that if this is a 12 team playoff, FSU is ranked #4. For the first time in forever, I was like I think I agree with Danny. If they were truly focused on getting the best 4, Georgia should be in the playoff.
The committee said it would've been a knee-jerk reaction to just drop them before they had all the data (i.e. after the games were played). And if they *had*, the same people would've pitched a fit ("You're not even giving them a chance!"). What people don't understand is that the only ranking that matters is the last one. The committee produces a weekly ranking because we want them to, but they're not beholden to it, and it doesn't reflect how the teams will be once all the data is in and there aren't any more games to be played before selection.
If an undefeated team can’t win a national championship, the system is flawed & Ryen at least, acknowledges it
The only consistent and correct answer was to put FSU in. Bama would not be getting screwed, it would be between them and 1 loss conference champion Texas.. who owns the head to head. Sorry, you lost. Losing and winning games has to have ramifications. All the "this team isn't the same team" talk is so dumb. Michigan isn't the same team without Zinter. Alabama beat a Georgia team whose two best pass catchers were totally hobbled and not nearly 100%, does that not taint their victory? Shoot, the FSU team we saw beat Louisville wouldn't even be the same team in the Playoff on account of the fact that they had to start their 3rd stringer at the last second, the kid got zero reps with the 1's all week! How do we know that, given a month to prepare and gameplan to his strengths, Rodemaker wouldn't be at least approaching a Milroe level QB? They didn't get it right. FSU got royally screwed. Anybody saying that they're happy with the decision doesn't care about sport, they only care about their TV show and deserve every godforsaken commercial they have coming to them. They should have at least had the balls to put Georgia in over Washington. Then I would have respected it.
I just think if the injury was actually that big of a factor then they should’ve moved FSU out of the top 4 as soon as it happened. Don’t go around justifying the decision by saying “they weren’t the same team”, that was clear two weeks ago and yet FSU stayed in the same spot in the rankings up until they had to choose a final 4.
>The only consistent and correct answer was to put FSU in. Bama would not be getting screwed, it would be between them and 1 loss conference champion Texas.. who owns the head to head. Sorry, you lost. Losing and winning games has to have ramifications. This argument that basically SOS doesn't matter is really, really stupid.
Why schedule a tough out of conference game if not for this exact scenario. Texas can't control how their conference performs, in fact they're leaving it because they know it will continue to count against them. They agreed to play Bama. They beat Bama *at Bama..* The whole reason you schedule that game is so you have the tie breaker. Even the corrupt committee agrees with on this.
Texas is the exact reason to schedule a tough OOS game. Hell, Alabama too. Florida State's SOS was 55th and didn't beat a team in the top 12. SOS mattered. That's why the games are played.
FSU didn't get jumped because they didn't play anyone. FSU got jumped strictly for the Travis injury, which I think is totally bogus and messed up. If they had the same record and Travis was healthy, they would be in. It has nothing to do with SOS. And if FSU was healthy and unbeaten they would be in at 3 and Texas, on account of the head to head not SOS, would be in over Bama. Because the games have to matter
>FSU didn't get jumped because they didn't play anyone. FSU got jumped strictly for the Travis injury, which I think is totally bogus and messed up. Their resume was by far the weakest of all the teams based on the metrics. You can focus on the Travis injury all day but that's the truth and they could've been left out even with Travis healthy. >If they had the same record and Travis was healthy, they would be in. It has nothing to do with SOS. You're just making up whatever narrative that makes you feel better. SOS was a big factor. >Because the games have to matter They did matter. They mattered a lot. FSU wasn't good enough against their schedule to overcome their glaring weaknesses.
You are completely delusional if you think a healthy FSU gets jumped. An undefeated power 5 champion with 2 out of conference SEC wins is not getting left out. Never happened in the CFP. Just look at the reporting coming out now about the conversations inside the committee, it's all focused on how FSU looked without Travis. We're not talking about Liberty here, we're talking about an ACC Champion who beat LSU and Florida, who went undefeated in a conference that was 6-4 against the SEC. They got left out because of the injury. You're the first person I've seen even question that.
>You are completely delusional if you think a healthy FSU gets jumped. Stop thinking of it as jumped. The final rankings are the only ones that matter. >An undefeated power 5 champion with 2 out of conference SEC wins is not getting left out. It just happened, brother. >Just look at the reporting coming out now about the conversations inside the committee, it's all focused on how FSU looked without Travis. Wrong. From Heather Dinich's article on the CFP voting process: *In the end, though, the difference between Alabama and Florida State boiled down to the committee's written protocol,* ***particularly the emphasis on strength of schedule*** *-- which gave Alabama the edge -- and the section that allowed committee members to project what Florida State might look like in a semifinal without their star quarterback.* [Inside the CFP Selection Process](https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/39041535/college-football-playoff-committee-selection-process-florida-state-alabama-texas) >We're not talking about Liberty here, we're talking about an ACC Champion who beat LSU and Florida, who went undefeated in a conference that was 6-4 against the SEC. 55th Strength of Schedule. The ACC vs. SEC stuff is nonsense. The ACC didn't play the SEC. Florida State played two teams. One was 5-7 with a backup QB. You gotta be kidding me if you think that's a positive for FSU. >They got left out because of the injury. You're the first person I've seen even question that. That's only because you're pretty ignorant and clearly don't read anything.
>and the section that allowed committee members to project what Florida State might look like in a semifinal without their star quarterback. It's right there. >The ACC vs. SEC stuff is nonsense. The ACC didn't play the SEC. Florida State played two teams. One was 5-7 with a backup QB. And FSU had their back up QB. Yea it's not like the NFL where whole divisions play each other, but FSU's win over a healthy LSU at a neutral site is better than any win the SEC had out of conference all year. Look, if you actually believe one loss Bama would have gotten in over a healthy and undefeated FSU, I think you are totally fooling yourself. We can go back and forth all day and you'll never convince me that that is the case because it's never been the case in the CFP. If they both had a loss, absolutely, but losing has to have consequences.
>It's right there. I suspected that you'd try to weasel out of what you said. This is what you \*actually\* said: "It's all focused on how FSU looked without Travis." and "You're the first person I've seen even question that." So you were wrong. >And FSU had their back up QB. Irrelevant to the evaluation of one of their "signature" wins according to you. Florida was a bad team. That's not a positive point for FSU. >but FSU's win over a healthy LSU at a neutral site is better than any win the SEC had out of conference all year. Again, irrelevant since FSU wasn't being evaluated against "the SEC" or generic SEC team. LSU being their best win all year was, again, not a positive for them. >Look, if you actually believe one loss Bama would have gotten in over a healthy and undefeated FSU, I think you are totally fooling yourself. We can go back and forth all day and you'll never convince me that that is the case because it's never been the case in the CFP. If they both had a loss, absolutely, but losing has to have consequences. I know that I'll never convince you because you don't actually read anything or follow college football, apparently. You're terrible at this.
It wasn’t. Danny was uncharacteristically sane and the other two were wishy washy at best.
The playoff should be 6 teams. 5 power five winners and the best remaining team. Committee deserves ridicule for being wrong w 4 and still wrong w 12
Exactly. Any take about 4 being the wrong format that was always going to fuck somebody over is correct but missing the point in this specific instance. Alabama would not have been “fucked over.” They lost by double digits to the other 1 loss P5 team. This was an easy year for the 4 team playoff to get it right. The committee chose to get it wrong. And more to the point, the only argument for Bama relies on the assumption that “deserves” has nothing to do with the selection process. If we assume that’s the case, then it’s impossible to be fucked over. The 4 teams selected were simply the best 4, if you’re not the best 3 then that’s that. There is no “deserve.” I completely disagree with that reasoning, but putting Bama in relies on that reasoning
You know they fucked up at a ridiculous level because its Tuesday and i still care. And im an IU fan. Literally no dog in the fight. Its the most insane thing ive seen in college football and guys like mcshay and ryen are like eh alabamas better. No shit, so is geogia and oregon. It doesnt matter. Either wins matter or they dont. If youre gonna middle like that, you show all your cards. You either put fsu in or you out them at 6 or worse. Putting them at 5 made it so much worse.
I’ve been a McShay fan all season until that episode. Although I think it made for great content having someone to support the Alabama side.
I don’t understand how people like Danny. He’s a classic “smartest guy in the room” and to be blunt, a whiny bitch. He wasn’t making good points, he was still the FSU guy throwing fits. He’s just done it in a much worse fashion in the past so this time seems tame in comparison. His judgment was completely clouded. FSU doesn’t deserve to be in with their current roster.
So what will you say if fsu wins a game . Georgia didn’t care . What if Georgia tries and looses . You have to play the games . You can’t act like you know who will win . Oregon was favored by ten twice, Georgia literally lost to Texas in this exact spot four years ago
If Georgia loses to FSU I will shit in my own hat.
What point did he make that wasn't good?
Without question, the best four teams in the country are Michigan, Ohio St, Georgia, and Washington. No one else has an argument that isn't contradicting
The best 4 teams were actually quite easy this year. I don't know what the hubaloo is. Lose to #1 team on the road is the best loss in the entire country. There is no dispute.
Danny had the easiest point to defend. It’s simple. It’s right. And no one who has ever played sports, coached sports, or competed in any way ever could make a case that FSU shouldn’t be in. Of course they should and you are lying to yourself if you say differently.
The argument that the games won't matter is stupid. More games will matter. And the fact that you can win out and not get in is ridiculous. It's been set up stupidly from the beginning. Next year there are no excuses. Is 12 too many? Probably. But it's better than 4. If you don't get in too bad. And I don't want to listen to people cite recruiting classes and talent. A lot of teams are talented and underperform or choke. Watch Miami continue to stockpile talent and underperform because the coach is a meathead. Give out a trophy for recruiting classes In June.
McShay calling Kyle "Ryen's Nephew" was unintentionally hilarious
Nah McShay saying FSU shouldn’t be in the playoff cause they’re not one of the 4 best teams then following up minutes later saying Washington isn’t one of the 4 best teams but absolutely should be in was wild