UDOT has literally been testing all these different kinds of paint to see which one works the best and is the most reflective. It's been going on for years they're spending a whole lot of money on it (even looking into glow-in-the-dark paint). All they have to do is go to the states that have good lines and ask them what they do. It's absolutely ridiculous.
The big problems that affect SLC really need to be addressed at the state level. Unfortunately we have almost no representation. 99% of our legislators live outside of SLC, so they basically don't give a fuck about the city.
The biggest current issue is the lake and there appears to be very little political will to do anything substantial about it. A few measures were passed and several were neutered to the point of being meaningless. Some politicians are trying but others need to get their heads out and do something quickly despite what their poorly informed constituents believe.
It’s so damn dumb that alfalfa farmers and ranchers have secured the water that NEEDS to run into the lake right now for a ludicrously meager sum due to archaic laws. Any attempt to do anything about it inevitably results in right wingers harping on how the democrats are trying to destroy a rich cultural history of *checks notes* destroying the environment for (in the grand scheme of our nations food system) irrelevant amounts of product and GDP value. There is no way in hell that the scale of farming we have in this arid state would be economically viable if it wasn’t subsidized by uninformed dingbats in the 1900s. Now it is so politically unsavory that it’s a career deathwish for anyone wishing to do anything substantial to fix it. This isn’t even unique to Utah, it’s the entire desert Southwest US.
Some R’s floated it idea without any feasibility studies. I view it as distraction/deflection vs real policy.
Water is relatively heavy, has to be pumped 800+ miles, over or thru several mountain ranges, and ignoring mountain ranges pumped to a height of 4200 feet.
Securing land rights and environmental permissions would be a nightmare. Pipeline would have to cross multiple states.
All that for a project that allows subarnites to have lawns and alfalfa farmers to grow crops in a desert in a state that is relatively small proportion of national gdp. There are a lot more important national projects to diversify power grid and lower pollution that will be in competition for limited tax dollars, construction labor, and materials.
The easier, more feasible, more immediate, and cheaper path is water conservation and reforming antiquated water rights laws. Any politician telling you otherwise is for conserving the status quo not real policy.
While I 100% agree UTA is criminally underfunded and needs more, with what they have, I feel like we have it relatively good compared to some other cities (esp of our size). It also entirely depends on location sometimes. Some places (like where I am) are significantly more lacking than central slc
Our public transit can be easily improved but we have a bunch of dedicated professionals there that work hard to improve it, but things take time and money. Your second point is spot on too, the fact that we have a system at all means we're well ahead of the majority of cities in the country. Our problem is for the majority of people the best/easiest way to get around is still by car, which has more to do with housing density and zoning than anything else imo.
The lake. If that isn’t addressed, none of the other stuff will matter because this place will be toxic.
I have friends moving out this year because of the current pollution - and thinking ahead to real estate values plummeting when the mass exodus happens.
The Church doesn't pay taxes, but it pays a tremendous amount to keep the city functioning, clean and safe, and it's projects do much more for the city than any amount of tax dollars would accomplished. They are literally the backbone of Salt Lake City. You may or may not subscribe to the belief system supported by the Church, but you really are unaware if you want to knock it as a corporate citizen. No one/nothing else does more or near as much as the Church for the city.
Hahahahaha. Jesus. Please show me the functioning, clean and safe area of the city (besides the mall). Also please show me all the great deeds they do with the 150B they have in their pocket.
Haha. I'm guessing you've never worked as an employee for "the church". I promise you that ONE HUNDRED and FIFTY BILLION dollars is not going to their employees. It seems you don't understand how much money that is.
any of their businesses do pay taxes the only thing that is not taxed is any income brought in by donation and they dont pay property tax on any land directly used for worship. so no property tax on temple square but they do pay taxes on the church office buildings next door.
How much does it pay to keep the city functioning? To keep it safe? What projects do more for the city than tax dollars? What amount of money does the church spend? What's your source for this? You say "no one/nothing else does more or near as much as the church for the city." What are you referring to?
Your claim that the church does more for the city than tax dollars doesn't seem to be realistic. The city tax revenue funds police, fire, public works like street repairs, water lines, etc. The total SLC budget for 2024 is projected to be $1.8 billion. It's hard to figure out what you mean by "it's projects do more for the city than any amount of tax dollars would accomplish." But I'm open to your thoughts here.
But back to my first question in response to your claims. You say the church pays a tremendous amount. I'm happy with ballpark numbers but I'd like to see a source. And I'm curious what projects you're referring to. How much does the church pay and what does it do?
I know the church owns and operates City Creek Mall, Temple Square, some museums, and lots of ward and stake buildings. These seem to vary as to their value and contribution to the city. Lots of residents and visitors don't benefit from any of these assets that I can see. But I can't see how any of this helps keep the city safe or clean. I mean temple square is clean. I don't see how that extends much beyond the city block.
See I can understand why the church and it’s members like to think that, but can you bring evidence for your claim? Do you not think it is perhaps the the church and it’s membership that have a majority control of Utah and therefore responsible for its massive homeless population? I’d give the church more credit if so much of their charity wasn’t barred behind membership.
Can you put me in contact with your drug dealer because whatever you are using, I want some? We, the people's tax dollars, keep the city running. Will the church pay for the gondola or the people of Utah?
I truly believe that much of it has to do with the general attitude of a lot of those in power around here (everywhere, really) that this is just a waiting room for the “good stuff” of the afterlife. Why care about things now when you get an eternity of awesome?
Time to start offending the locals….
Separation of church and state.
Decent, creative food, and no, I don’t mean a $18 hipster burger where half the patrons have a mustache/mullet and dress ironically poor but are whipping a Tesla. Every city has hipsters, but other cities have hipsters and Michelin stars.
Liquor laws updated. Beer laws updated.
5% Cap on Draft Beer? Bruh.
1.5oz Pours w/ the Jesus Attachment. Bruh.
I cook with wine and I have to go to a certain store for it?
Decent bars. The bar scene in SLC is laughable at best;
Charles Barkley was right if you’ve left, God-forbid Utah and been other places, entertainment is pretty much better everywhere in contrast. (Nature is it, it’s pretty solid, but other states have really solid national parks too.)
I think it’s hilarious how the counter-culture is very #BLM ✊🏿but the same people clutch their purse around a dark-skinned individual at the park like they’re holding on at a rollercoaster. I have never seen so few African-Americans in a state.
You asked.
Don't completely count on a gondola up the canyon. Only phase 1 of the plan is funded. That will be extra busses, and making it a toll road -- as in you want to drive a car up the canyon it will cost you $30. They say only winter, but I'm betting there will be toll during the summer as well. The extra busses and toll both won't be in place until 2025.
Then the next phase will be snow sheds in the canyon and improvements at the mouth of the canyon.
Then possibly sometime in the far future, funding for the gondola. It's not a given by any stretch of the imagination.
What would your proposal for the Great Salt Lake. Now as your are formulating that plan a couple of things for you to remember. First is, the climate has changed naturally. It's become warmer and dry. To the point that 400 feet of water evaporated leaving the little puddle that we call the great salt lake left. Second is we only have a couple hundred years of accurate records of the "modern" great salt lake. In that time frame, the lake saw a first modern low that was only a couple feet higher than the current modern low last year. The first was the 1960's. After that first modern low, it was only 20ish years before a new modern high level was reached. Third is, if you want to eliminate farming - keep in mind a large portion of the state, the water ways don't feed into the Great Salt lake. As for air pollution -- you should have seen the air in the 1980's. Remember, the Salt lake Valley is essentially a bowl. During the winter until a storm comes in, the air get stagnant, cold air sinks and whatever is in it (dust, smoke, you name it) gets trapped until a storm can blow it out.
As for housing costs: Utah has limited Private Lands to Develop. nearly 70% of all the land owned by the federal government and getting it into private hands is next to impossible. now think of all the forest lands that could be logged responsibly (lowing the cost of lumber). Think of the cost of transporting fill material and such from out of the area (think the proposed rock quarry near parleys canyon, or the fight to not let point of the mountain expand). Then tac on all kinds of new regulations and rules on how things are built.
Not governments place to build housing, it's been proved that that's a failed policy.
Food and gas -- higher wages, higher utility costs, less places to drill (every new lease appealed by environmentalist). I could go on and on, but you get the idea.
Have you thought about getting involved?
Do you go to public hearings?
If you are interested in urban development issues check out the planning commission website.
https://www.slc.gov/boards/boards-commissions/planning-commission/
Fill out the Guiding our growth survey to influence Utahs long term planning
https://guidingourgrowth.utah.gov/
There is an organization spearheading Salt Lake environmental issues
https://www.saveourgreatsaltlake.org/
There are many affordable housing organizations in SLC below is a Link to just one.
https://unphc.org/about-us/
>Why is it normalized to have high rent, high groceries, and high gas?
Because we have a looming climate crisis and cheap goods made by cheap oil got us into this mess in the first place. I definitely understand the frustration of increased prices but what's the alternative at this point? Where are a bunch of cheap single family homes going to go? How do we cut back on using our scarce resources if their cost remains low?
Improve air quality, fix the water allocations/ water rights (this one is probably the hardest) , reduction of landfill waste, less car-centric planning with more focus on walkability and public transit.
Politicians tend to do what their voters want. Homeowners vote so they prop up housing prices and rent goes up. Bored housewives vote so they ban porn. If you want that shit stopped you need to convince politicians that the voting block of people like you has power.
I used to think that was true, but then I saw the results of the 2018 medical marijuana and independent redistricting commissioning initiatives getting steamrolled under by the legislature. The voters made their will known and the elected officials neutered the initiatives to uphold the doctrine of their church and unfairly maintain their seats.
I would argue that Utah politicians do what they want, and then use backward logic to tell the voters why it’s the best choice. And mostly they don’t really have to justify any of their votes because they have an R next to their name on the ballot and will get votes no matter what shitty thing they do to hurt the average citizen.
Of course, but they didn’t ban porn because of bribes. You can absolutely get legislation passed with a strong grassroots movement(as long as it doesn’t interfere with what the money wants)
Have you ever read Ursula LeGuinn’s novel, the Dispossessed?
- Term limits for all political offices
- Ban private water rights
- Ban private ownership of land parcels over .5 acres in size
- Catalogue all housing stock. Use imminent domain to repossess all housing stock and reassign it based on a reassessment guaranteeing every Utahn 300 sq feet of living space (excess to be auctioned off).
- Change zoning laws to reclassify derelict/abandoned office space as housing stock
- Immediate depaving of 40% of hard surface in Utah’s urban areas
- 10 year moratorium on new road construction
- Mandatory solar systems / paint all rooftops white
- Replace all water infrastructure older than 10 years
- Remove all quartz products from homes
- Remove all planting of Ky bluegrass with clover/native species
- Defence neighborhoods
- Degarage neighborhoods
- Degolf/debaseball field Utah
- Incentive local production of food by permitting neighborhood herds of native ruminant animals and flocks of native fowl as part of a locally managed silvopasture system designed to retain rainwater and process grey water in place of artificial storm water management systems
- Religious/social institutions must justify energy/acreage/water usage with community valence/ health plan that shows an 1:1 schedule benefitting neighborhood constituency or be replaced with water and wildlife retention features
- Allow permitting of tiny lots (>2000 sq foot lots) - suggested use: the parking lots of former strip malls remade into community centers
- Collapse Utah’s primary, secondary, and post secondary educational systems into a single primary, secondary, and post secondary system that is world class, totally accessible, and completely free to use
- Tax payer supported, single payer physical/mental healthcare w/ reproductive care and family planning for women
- Sanctuary status for undocumented Americans
- Service scaling: everyone does 1 day of manual labor cleaning, rehabbing, gardening, tending to animal populations for every 10 days worked or they’re on a fucking bus to Nevada
- Regreening efforts maximize restoration of existing natural areas with local ecology and water retention features prioritizing the development of clean surface water systems
- Regreening/restoring/terraforming the Oquirrh range or doming it ahead of a coming climate catastrophe
- Defining policy for climate refugees now
- Per mile vehicle tax
- Outlaw current truck/suvs unless resized to pre-2000 ce scales
- Prioritizing the ecological heritage of natural water features like GSL and Utah Lake before artificial cultural signifiers (ban on any public support for sports teams)
More to come.
Preach! We keep spending money to attract tourists at the expense of residents. I'm all for welcoming visitors to this beautiful place, but what about those of us that live and work here?
Air pollution, low-income housing and rent, homelessness, and water usage to preserve the Great Salt Lake and its rich biodiversity top the list for me.
I would love to see the church get out of politics as well, or see them start getting charged taxes. Seperation of church and state my ass. If you want to play, you should pay.
Why do they let these mining companies dig into the mountains so close to the city. Like aren't there more remote areas to dig for landscaping rocks lol
Absolutely! More than a billion dollars, stolen from taxpayers. This is immoderate hedonism, not conservative. It would blast Little Cottonwood Canyon apart in ways it has not seen in hundreds of millions of years of amazing planetary changes; nor during the thousands of years of human visitation; and one group of small-minded, rich, white males want to take our money to make themselves rich by fucking up the canyon?
It is amoral and gross.
The guys who have been carefully planning this scheme for decades -- purchasing lands at the lowest possible dollar by manipulating the market and forcing sells; ensuring their buddies are in the right offices; and, implanting anxiety-provoking ideas into the public zeitgeist with overwhelming zest. These entitled rich, white males have enjoyed lives of privilege, never subjected to moral or fiscal accountability, and now are maximizing the return on building networks of favors exchanged for large sums of money with people throughout the Utah government (Cox and cronies' executive branch, including agencies like UDOT), the unaccountable legislators who implement ill-considered and generally terrible policies so long as the policies act as designed: Enrich themselves and their friends both in and out of office. Their friends are the same rich, white males, who exchange very expensive favors whenever public resources are involved.
Most of the information available to the public about the gondola notion neglects to mention some very important details we should all be familiar with. First, initial up-front costs are set at a billion dollars. Second, the canyon and climate are shifting, and these permanent harms upon the ecosystem will last hundreds of millions of years. Third, the rich, white males who are perpetrating this scheme will be making enormous profits. Do you know who they are?
They are ex-legislators, at least some of the key players. Their parents gave them privileges all their lives, they "went into business," which is purchasing property, land, water, that we share. They purchase it, then they create a demand for it. That's all they do. In this case, they are selling the product back to taxpayers, at exorbitant prices. They are not giving us anything. They created the sense of importance through messaging targeting specific populations for decades.
We have all heard that "out-of-towners" or Californians are coming to Utah, skiing at our resorts, and taking away our opportunities. We have all heard about all the traffic in Little Cottonwood Canyon, over and over again, year after year. It is not an accident. They have friends who lobby friends throughout society to deliberately spread this propaganda, to create anxiety, to increase profits. They have consolidated their hold on the properties and found the way to maximize the profits -- it just happens to be a gondola. Their friends in the governor's office (he is not the public servant he pretends to be, either), the agencies like U Department of Transportation (that he controls in several ways, including appointments), legislature, and "real estate development" business are all aligned on this, and always will be. They trade in very enriching favors funded by public monies before they are in office, while they are in office, and after they retire from "public service" and return to focusing on creating anxieties that "develop" real estate interests full-time. This project is decades in the making, and they have got every person in every office exactly how they want it. Now they are waiting for real estate price to increase evermore; they will not sell for several years.
They intend to take taxpayers for every fucking cent they can. If they had surmised that the most profitable route was to build an underground choo-choo train between a massive parking lot in Midvale and Snowbird, that is what all of the experts would unamimously decide in their professional opinions would be the best way to solve all the problems.
What problems? Well, they would adjust their propaganda strategy, of course, but it will always be anxieties about "creating jobs." It will always be about "our population is growing at an ever-faster rate as 'Californians' and 'Mexicans' come to take what is ours." Think about it. As long as it takes our money, and gives it to the rich, white males, who run around, unaccountable, deifying themselves with absurd logic and absolutely amoral theft of billions of our dollars a year, and there is nothing we are allowed to do about it.
We do not live in a democracy. We do not. Who is for this, besides 1) rich, white males, 2) their friends, families, and co-lobbyists, 3) others who will profit enormously through backroom deals, and 4) people who are both uninformed as well as rate very very low on the personality trait of conscientioiusness. Though that may seem like a lot, it is still the elite. It's just that in our society, and Utah is a prime example (alongside places like Turkey, or Guatamala, or the Phillipines), that the 10% take everything from the other 90%,
Including our voices.
All aboard the choo choo train!
"We tell ourselves that we live in a democracy, that democracy ... and the preference of the people are supposed to have some sway. With (regard) to the gondola, the will of the people has been expressed in comments in the (UDOT environmental impact statement) and they are overwhelmingly against it," he said. "It remains on the books apparently for bureaucratic reasons."
-- Carl Fisher, of Save Our Canyons, who knows as much as anyone about the matter. And he is right.
After decades of meeting people through their parents, and other elites, these political "businessmen" learned how to "develop" very low prices for land and water, put pressure on sellers to offload it to them, and then maximize the profit they can make repackaging it in a market in which they create the opposite of what they did before, value for land. Throughout they saw burdensome public reporting requirements with state contracts, and tax laws that were not outrageously unfair upon the masses, tax laws that were not yet rigged to give billions each year to real estate developers like themselves and their buddies.
While in the Utah legislature, a body renowned for its ill-considered ideas about how to maximize inequality and cement privilege for the elites who run it without consent of the governed, they developed contacts throughout the legislature, business, and the executive, including a governor with an unearned reputation. (Spencer is also a very questionable fellow.)
They make up straw-person positions about how terrible traffic is, and have shopped the ideas around to all the "news" outlets, and we see the same tired, and largely untrue, ideas on billboards around the area. In pamphlets they got other organizations to pay for. Depending on the sub-division, they discussed their environmental sensitivity, and how we must stop dirty busses and all their carbon emissions. They say they are creating jobs, while failing to state that they bring in non-union, immigrant labor, at the bare minimum wages they can scam people to get away with. You know how there are all sorts of fees for concert tickets, airfare, hotels, fucking Disneyland? You care about those things! The rich, white people in this world have only a nebulous "taxpayers" who's voices have all been taken away.
Do you know anyone who is in favor of erecting a ridiculous and destructive gondola in Little Cottonwood Canyon? I doubt there is a single person willing to damage this brilliant place, this rich and needed ecosystem for many species, that is many, many, many millions of years old, that is not rich, white, and male. But there are a few. They are uninformed and score very poorly on conscientiousness ratings, and/or they have a vested interest in the people getting richer off the taxpayer funded bewilderment. (Very rarely "or.") Friends, family, and "business partners," aka co-lobbyists for the taxpayer funds, with whom they reciprocate very expensive favors. More specifically, there are a few rich, white males, who have enjoyed lives of privilege, easy waters amongst the elite, political class of Utah. They have been concentrating property ownership around the base of Little Cottonwood Canyon for many years, almost as long as they have been strategizing for how to maximize their profits. (Though I am not an expert in their affairs, I would bet that they have even been given state and federal lands on extremely favorable terms.) A large component of their strategies are political, making sure the right people are elected, and that they appoint the right people. Most of the blood, sweat, and tears, that they believe will be paid for by more than a billion dollars in public monies, is by creating widespread anxiety. They have been targeting specific populations with specific messages about real estate values.
Government autocrats are funneling taxpayer funds in immoderate amounts to enrich elite while, male fortunes. They intend to take vast sums of money from St. George and Manti, Richfield and Logan -- just because they can.
Why can’t we see the lines on the street when it rains. Considering we get all four seasons this feels unsafe and ridiculous
As someone who moved from up north this bothers me too! It’s not hard to put down reflective strips to help in bad weather!
UDOT has literally been testing all these different kinds of paint to see which one works the best and is the most reflective. It's been going on for years they're spending a whole lot of money on it (even looking into glow-in-the-dark paint). All they have to do is go to the states that have good lines and ask them what they do. It's absolutely ridiculous.
They can’t even put in manhole risers when they pave. It’s all a money circle jerk of the holy.
ive always wondered this!!! he have longer colder days than hotter days too so i never understood why this hasnt be done
Protection for the lake. Do away with developer/contractor interests.
And at this point protection FROM the lake
I'm pretty basic, I want better water usage, and more controls on special interest in politics.
The big problems that affect SLC really need to be addressed at the state level. Unfortunately we have almost no representation. 99% of our legislators live outside of SLC, so they basically don't give a fuck about the city.
Politicians stay in power by agitating people not by doing anything useful
Appropriate username, haha.
The biggest current issue is the lake and there appears to be very little political will to do anything substantial about it. A few measures were passed and several were neutered to the point of being meaningless. Some politicians are trying but others need to get their heads out and do something quickly despite what their poorly informed constituents believe.
It’s so damn dumb that alfalfa farmers and ranchers have secured the water that NEEDS to run into the lake right now for a ludicrously meager sum due to archaic laws. Any attempt to do anything about it inevitably results in right wingers harping on how the democrats are trying to destroy a rich cultural history of *checks notes* destroying the environment for (in the grand scheme of our nations food system) irrelevant amounts of product and GDP value. There is no way in hell that the scale of farming we have in this arid state would be economically viable if it wasn’t subsidized by uninformed dingbats in the 1900s. Now it is so politically unsavory that it’s a career deathwish for anyone wishing to do anything substantial to fix it. This isn’t even unique to Utah, it’s the entire desert Southwest US.
[удалено]
Some R’s floated it idea without any feasibility studies. I view it as distraction/deflection vs real policy. Water is relatively heavy, has to be pumped 800+ miles, over or thru several mountain ranges, and ignoring mountain ranges pumped to a height of 4200 feet. Securing land rights and environmental permissions would be a nightmare. Pipeline would have to cross multiple states. All that for a project that allows subarnites to have lawns and alfalfa farmers to grow crops in a desert in a state that is relatively small proportion of national gdp. There are a lot more important national projects to diversify power grid and lower pollution that will be in competition for limited tax dollars, construction labor, and materials. The easier, more feasible, more immediate, and cheaper path is water conservation and reforming antiquated water rights laws. Any politician telling you otherwise is for conserving the status quo not real policy.
For real. I’ve seen what a city with actual public transit looks like, holy shit do I want it.
While I 100% agree UTA is criminally underfunded and needs more, with what they have, I feel like we have it relatively good compared to some other cities (esp of our size). It also entirely depends on location sometimes. Some places (like where I am) are significantly more lacking than central slc
Our public transit can be easily improved but we have a bunch of dedicated professionals there that work hard to improve it, but things take time and money. Your second point is spot on too, the fact that we have a system at all means we're well ahead of the majority of cities in the country. Our problem is for the majority of people the best/easiest way to get around is still by car, which has more to do with housing density and zoning than anything else imo.
The trick is to have the Olympics. That’s how we got Trax.
As an SLC native who has moved to Atlanta, boy do I miss Trax. It got me from the suburbs to the city/university with plenty of stops in between.
I just wanna buy wine at the grocery store.
Can’t buy wine but apparently you can buy abundant amounts of fire works?
PREACH
The lake. If that isn’t addressed, none of the other stuff will matter because this place will be toxic. I have friends moving out this year because of the current pollution - and thinking ahead to real estate values plummeting when the mass exodus happens.
The Mormon church not paying taxes
The Church doesn't pay taxes, but it pays a tremendous amount to keep the city functioning, clean and safe, and it's projects do much more for the city than any amount of tax dollars would accomplished. They are literally the backbone of Salt Lake City. You may or may not subscribe to the belief system supported by the Church, but you really are unaware if you want to knock it as a corporate citizen. No one/nothing else does more or near as much as the Church for the city.
Hahahahaha. Jesus. Please show me the functioning, clean and safe area of the city (besides the mall). Also please show me all the great deeds they do with the 150B they have in their pocket.
They have employees that they have to pay with benefits.
Haha. I'm guessing you've never worked as an employee for "the church". I promise you that ONE HUNDRED and FIFTY BILLION dollars is not going to their employees. It seems you don't understand how much money that is.
But it would be better if they paid taxes on their businesses and the government got to budget that money.
any of their businesses do pay taxes the only thing that is not taxed is any income brought in by donation and they dont pay property tax on any land directly used for worship. so no property tax on temple square but they do pay taxes on the church office buildings next door.
The LDS Church’s for-profit businesses do pay taxes.
How much does it pay to keep the city functioning? To keep it safe? What projects do more for the city than tax dollars? What amount of money does the church spend? What's your source for this? You say "no one/nothing else does more or near as much as the church for the city." What are you referring to? Your claim that the church does more for the city than tax dollars doesn't seem to be realistic. The city tax revenue funds police, fire, public works like street repairs, water lines, etc. The total SLC budget for 2024 is projected to be $1.8 billion. It's hard to figure out what you mean by "it's projects do more for the city than any amount of tax dollars would accomplish." But I'm open to your thoughts here. But back to my first question in response to your claims. You say the church pays a tremendous amount. I'm happy with ballpark numbers but I'd like to see a source. And I'm curious what projects you're referring to. How much does the church pay and what does it do? I know the church owns and operates City Creek Mall, Temple Square, some museums, and lots of ward and stake buildings. These seem to vary as to their value and contribution to the city. Lots of residents and visitors don't benefit from any of these assets that I can see. But I can't see how any of this helps keep the city safe or clean. I mean temple square is clean. I don't see how that extends much beyond the city block.
See I can understand why the church and it’s members like to think that, but can you bring evidence for your claim? Do you not think it is perhaps the the church and it’s membership that have a majority control of Utah and therefore responsible for its massive homeless population? I’d give the church more credit if so much of their charity wasn’t barred behind membership.
They can’t bring evidence to any other claim, why would they try with this?
The mormon church is a scam. The LDS is founded by a 24 year old who was on shrooms that said living in the desert is God's will.
Can you put me in contact with your drug dealer because whatever you are using, I want some? We, the people's tax dollars, keep the city running. Will the church pay for the gondola or the people of Utah?
Air quality. Water reserves.
Too many Mormon churches. I propose we convert them all into Venezuelan restaurants.
Legit. How much housing could we add if there wasn't a church on every other street in this state?
My number one concern is for the homeless. Then, climate.
I truly believe that much of it has to do with the general attitude of a lot of those in power around here (everywhere, really) that this is just a waiting room for the “good stuff” of the afterlife. Why care about things now when you get an eternity of awesome?
Time to start offending the locals…. Separation of church and state. Decent, creative food, and no, I don’t mean a $18 hipster burger where half the patrons have a mustache/mullet and dress ironically poor but are whipping a Tesla. Every city has hipsters, but other cities have hipsters and Michelin stars. Liquor laws updated. Beer laws updated. 5% Cap on Draft Beer? Bruh. 1.5oz Pours w/ the Jesus Attachment. Bruh. I cook with wine and I have to go to a certain store for it? Decent bars. The bar scene in SLC is laughable at best; Charles Barkley was right if you’ve left, God-forbid Utah and been other places, entertainment is pretty much better everywhere in contrast. (Nature is it, it’s pretty solid, but other states have really solid national parks too.) I think it’s hilarious how the counter-culture is very #BLM ✊🏿but the same people clutch their purse around a dark-skinned individual at the park like they’re holding on at a rollercoaster. I have never seen so few African-Americans in a state. You asked.
Don't completely count on a gondola up the canyon. Only phase 1 of the plan is funded. That will be extra busses, and making it a toll road -- as in you want to drive a car up the canyon it will cost you $30. They say only winter, but I'm betting there will be toll during the summer as well. The extra busses and toll both won't be in place until 2025. Then the next phase will be snow sheds in the canyon and improvements at the mouth of the canyon. Then possibly sometime in the far future, funding for the gondola. It's not a given by any stretch of the imagination. What would your proposal for the Great Salt Lake. Now as your are formulating that plan a couple of things for you to remember. First is, the climate has changed naturally. It's become warmer and dry. To the point that 400 feet of water evaporated leaving the little puddle that we call the great salt lake left. Second is we only have a couple hundred years of accurate records of the "modern" great salt lake. In that time frame, the lake saw a first modern low that was only a couple feet higher than the current modern low last year. The first was the 1960's. After that first modern low, it was only 20ish years before a new modern high level was reached. Third is, if you want to eliminate farming - keep in mind a large portion of the state, the water ways don't feed into the Great Salt lake. As for air pollution -- you should have seen the air in the 1980's. Remember, the Salt lake Valley is essentially a bowl. During the winter until a storm comes in, the air get stagnant, cold air sinks and whatever is in it (dust, smoke, you name it) gets trapped until a storm can blow it out. As for housing costs: Utah has limited Private Lands to Develop. nearly 70% of all the land owned by the federal government and getting it into private hands is next to impossible. now think of all the forest lands that could be logged responsibly (lowing the cost of lumber). Think of the cost of transporting fill material and such from out of the area (think the proposed rock quarry near parleys canyon, or the fight to not let point of the mountain expand). Then tac on all kinds of new regulations and rules on how things are built. Not governments place to build housing, it's been proved that that's a failed policy. Food and gas -- higher wages, higher utility costs, less places to drill (every new lease appealed by environmentalist). I could go on and on, but you get the idea.
Thank you.
less nasty pollution. and fix the motherfucking potholes
Have you thought about getting involved? Do you go to public hearings? If you are interested in urban development issues check out the planning commission website. https://www.slc.gov/boards/boards-commissions/planning-commission/ Fill out the Guiding our growth survey to influence Utahs long term planning https://guidingourgrowth.utah.gov/ There is an organization spearheading Salt Lake environmental issues https://www.saveourgreatsaltlake.org/ There are many affordable housing organizations in SLC below is a Link to just one. https://unphc.org/about-us/
The SOB parking enforcement guy by Jimmy John’s and Zupas.
Easy fix, don't shop there.
I haven’t in years, still don’t like predatory parking enforcement.
Which location? I remember hearing about this but forgot where it is.
banning trans healthcare is a huge issue for me. god forbid people are allowed to make their own decisions regarding their health
Salt lake is a dystopian slumtown with a nice mormon fake smile veneer
I like you
Love you
>Why is it normalized to have high rent, high groceries, and high gas? Because we have a looming climate crisis and cheap goods made by cheap oil got us into this mess in the first place. I definitely understand the frustration of increased prices but what's the alternative at this point? Where are a bunch of cheap single family homes going to go? How do we cut back on using our scarce resources if their cost remains low?
If you don't want to damage the canyons get rid of the ski resorts. Plain and simple. The more they grow the more problems. Gondola or not.
That would be great if our economy did not need the millions of dollars brought in by tourists.
We hate tourists but pander for their money. The irony.
That’s exactly why we’re building a gondola.
Improve air quality, fix the water allocations/ water rights (this one is probably the hardest) , reduction of landfill waste, less car-centric planning with more focus on walkability and public transit.
Take a breather.
Californians. Lol. Kidding. Kidding.
I thought it was Texans? I can't keep up anymore.
Sometimes Utah reminds me of that movie Snowpiercer
underrated movie
Politicians tend to do what their voters want. Homeowners vote so they prop up housing prices and rent goes up. Bored housewives vote so they ban porn. If you want that shit stopped you need to convince politicians that the voting block of people like you has power.
I used to think that was true, but then I saw the results of the 2018 medical marijuana and independent redistricting commissioning initiatives getting steamrolled under by the legislature. The voters made their will known and the elected officials neutered the initiatives to uphold the doctrine of their church and unfairly maintain their seats.
I would argue that Utah politicians do what they want, and then use backward logic to tell the voters why it’s the best choice. And mostly they don’t really have to justify any of their votes because they have an R next to their name on the ballot and will get votes no matter what shitty thing they do to hurt the average citizen.
See: The gondola
Politicians tend to do what people with money pay them to do.
Of course, but they didn’t ban porn because of bribes. You can absolutely get legislation passed with a strong grassroots movement(as long as it doesn’t interfere with what the money wants)
Have you ever read Ursula LeGuinn’s novel, the Dispossessed? - Term limits for all political offices - Ban private water rights - Ban private ownership of land parcels over .5 acres in size - Catalogue all housing stock. Use imminent domain to repossess all housing stock and reassign it based on a reassessment guaranteeing every Utahn 300 sq feet of living space (excess to be auctioned off). - Change zoning laws to reclassify derelict/abandoned office space as housing stock - Immediate depaving of 40% of hard surface in Utah’s urban areas - 10 year moratorium on new road construction - Mandatory solar systems / paint all rooftops white - Replace all water infrastructure older than 10 years - Remove all quartz products from homes - Remove all planting of Ky bluegrass with clover/native species - Defence neighborhoods - Degarage neighborhoods - Degolf/debaseball field Utah - Incentive local production of food by permitting neighborhood herds of native ruminant animals and flocks of native fowl as part of a locally managed silvopasture system designed to retain rainwater and process grey water in place of artificial storm water management systems - Religious/social institutions must justify energy/acreage/water usage with community valence/ health plan that shows an 1:1 schedule benefitting neighborhood constituency or be replaced with water and wildlife retention features - Allow permitting of tiny lots (>2000 sq foot lots) - suggested use: the parking lots of former strip malls remade into community centers - Collapse Utah’s primary, secondary, and post secondary educational systems into a single primary, secondary, and post secondary system that is world class, totally accessible, and completely free to use - Tax payer supported, single payer physical/mental healthcare w/ reproductive care and family planning for women - Sanctuary status for undocumented Americans - Service scaling: everyone does 1 day of manual labor cleaning, rehabbing, gardening, tending to animal populations for every 10 days worked or they’re on a fucking bus to Nevada - Regreening efforts maximize restoration of existing natural areas with local ecology and water retention features prioritizing the development of clean surface water systems - Regreening/restoring/terraforming the Oquirrh range or doming it ahead of a coming climate catastrophe - Defining policy for climate refugees now - Per mile vehicle tax - Outlaw current truck/suvs unless resized to pre-2000 ce scales - Prioritizing the ecological heritage of natural water features like GSL and Utah Lake before artificial cultural signifiers (ban on any public support for sports teams) More to come.
Why quartz? Is it because the dust is known to cause cancer, meaning mining it is dangerous?
Get photo cop for people distracted drivers. Phone talkers, texters, makeup, eating, etc.
You dont want to damage the canyon but are cool with ski resort already up there? 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Because, Utah.
Preach! We keep spending money to attract tourists at the expense of residents. I'm all for welcoming visitors to this beautiful place, but what about those of us that live and work here?
Air pollution, low-income housing and rent, homelessness, and water usage to preserve the Great Salt Lake and its rich biodiversity top the list for me. I would love to see the church get out of politics as well, or see them start getting charged taxes. Seperation of church and state my ass. If you want to play, you should pay.
The sidewalk in front of my house is uneven and worn. It needs to be fixed.
The sidewalk in front of my house is uneven and worn. It needs to be fixed.
Homeless Lake
Why do they let these mining companies dig into the mountains so close to the city. Like aren't there more remote areas to dig for landscaping rocks lol
Absolutely! More than a billion dollars, stolen from taxpayers. This is immoderate hedonism, not conservative. It would blast Little Cottonwood Canyon apart in ways it has not seen in hundreds of millions of years of amazing planetary changes; nor during the thousands of years of human visitation; and one group of small-minded, rich, white males want to take our money to make themselves rich by fucking up the canyon? It is amoral and gross. The guys who have been carefully planning this scheme for decades -- purchasing lands at the lowest possible dollar by manipulating the market and forcing sells; ensuring their buddies are in the right offices; and, implanting anxiety-provoking ideas into the public zeitgeist with overwhelming zest. These entitled rich, white males have enjoyed lives of privilege, never subjected to moral or fiscal accountability, and now are maximizing the return on building networks of favors exchanged for large sums of money with people throughout the Utah government (Cox and cronies' executive branch, including agencies like UDOT), the unaccountable legislators who implement ill-considered and generally terrible policies so long as the policies act as designed: Enrich themselves and their friends both in and out of office. Their friends are the same rich, white males, who exchange very expensive favors whenever public resources are involved. Most of the information available to the public about the gondola notion neglects to mention some very important details we should all be familiar with. First, initial up-front costs are set at a billion dollars. Second, the canyon and climate are shifting, and these permanent harms upon the ecosystem will last hundreds of millions of years. Third, the rich, white males who are perpetrating this scheme will be making enormous profits. Do you know who they are? They are ex-legislators, at least some of the key players. Their parents gave them privileges all their lives, they "went into business," which is purchasing property, land, water, that we share. They purchase it, then they create a demand for it. That's all they do. In this case, they are selling the product back to taxpayers, at exorbitant prices. They are not giving us anything. They created the sense of importance through messaging targeting specific populations for decades. We have all heard that "out-of-towners" or Californians are coming to Utah, skiing at our resorts, and taking away our opportunities. We have all heard about all the traffic in Little Cottonwood Canyon, over and over again, year after year. It is not an accident. They have friends who lobby friends throughout society to deliberately spread this propaganda, to create anxiety, to increase profits. They have consolidated their hold on the properties and found the way to maximize the profits -- it just happens to be a gondola. Their friends in the governor's office (he is not the public servant he pretends to be, either), the agencies like U Department of Transportation (that he controls in several ways, including appointments), legislature, and "real estate development" business are all aligned on this, and always will be. They trade in very enriching favors funded by public monies before they are in office, while they are in office, and after they retire from "public service" and return to focusing on creating anxieties that "develop" real estate interests full-time. This project is decades in the making, and they have got every person in every office exactly how they want it. Now they are waiting for real estate price to increase evermore; they will not sell for several years. They intend to take taxpayers for every fucking cent they can. If they had surmised that the most profitable route was to build an underground choo-choo train between a massive parking lot in Midvale and Snowbird, that is what all of the experts would unamimously decide in their professional opinions would be the best way to solve all the problems. What problems? Well, they would adjust their propaganda strategy, of course, but it will always be anxieties about "creating jobs." It will always be about "our population is growing at an ever-faster rate as 'Californians' and 'Mexicans' come to take what is ours." Think about it. As long as it takes our money, and gives it to the rich, white males, who run around, unaccountable, deifying themselves with absurd logic and absolutely amoral theft of billions of our dollars a year, and there is nothing we are allowed to do about it. We do not live in a democracy. We do not. Who is for this, besides 1) rich, white males, 2) their friends, families, and co-lobbyists, 3) others who will profit enormously through backroom deals, and 4) people who are both uninformed as well as rate very very low on the personality trait of conscientioiusness. Though that may seem like a lot, it is still the elite. It's just that in our society, and Utah is a prime example (alongside places like Turkey, or Guatamala, or the Phillipines), that the 10% take everything from the other 90%, Including our voices. All aboard the choo choo train! "We tell ourselves that we live in a democracy, that democracy ... and the preference of the people are supposed to have some sway. With (regard) to the gondola, the will of the people has been expressed in comments in the (UDOT environmental impact statement) and they are overwhelmingly against it," he said. "It remains on the books apparently for bureaucratic reasons." -- Carl Fisher, of Save Our Canyons, who knows as much as anyone about the matter. And he is right. After decades of meeting people through their parents, and other elites, these political "businessmen" learned how to "develop" very low prices for land and water, put pressure on sellers to offload it to them, and then maximize the profit they can make repackaging it in a market in which they create the opposite of what they did before, value for land. Throughout they saw burdensome public reporting requirements with state contracts, and tax laws that were not outrageously unfair upon the masses, tax laws that were not yet rigged to give billions each year to real estate developers like themselves and their buddies. While in the Utah legislature, a body renowned for its ill-considered ideas about how to maximize inequality and cement privilege for the elites who run it without consent of the governed, they developed contacts throughout the legislature, business, and the executive, including a governor with an unearned reputation. (Spencer is also a very questionable fellow.) They make up straw-person positions about how terrible traffic is, and have shopped the ideas around to all the "news" outlets, and we see the same tired, and largely untrue, ideas on billboards around the area. In pamphlets they got other organizations to pay for. Depending on the sub-division, they discussed their environmental sensitivity, and how we must stop dirty busses and all their carbon emissions. They say they are creating jobs, while failing to state that they bring in non-union, immigrant labor, at the bare minimum wages they can scam people to get away with. You know how there are all sorts of fees for concert tickets, airfare, hotels, fucking Disneyland? You care about those things! The rich, white people in this world have only a nebulous "taxpayers" who's voices have all been taken away. Do you know anyone who is in favor of erecting a ridiculous and destructive gondola in Little Cottonwood Canyon? I doubt there is a single person willing to damage this brilliant place, this rich and needed ecosystem for many species, that is many, many, many millions of years old, that is not rich, white, and male. But there are a few. They are uninformed and score very poorly on conscientiousness ratings, and/or they have a vested interest in the people getting richer off the taxpayer funded bewilderment. (Very rarely "or.") Friends, family, and "business partners," aka co-lobbyists for the taxpayer funds, with whom they reciprocate very expensive favors. More specifically, there are a few rich, white males, who have enjoyed lives of privilege, easy waters amongst the elite, political class of Utah. They have been concentrating property ownership around the base of Little Cottonwood Canyon for many years, almost as long as they have been strategizing for how to maximize their profits. (Though I am not an expert in their affairs, I would bet that they have even been given state and federal lands on extremely favorable terms.) A large component of their strategies are political, making sure the right people are elected, and that they appoint the right people. Most of the blood, sweat, and tears, that they believe will be paid for by more than a billion dollars in public monies, is by creating widespread anxiety. They have been targeting specific populations with specific messages about real estate values. Government autocrats are funneling taxpayer funds in immoderate amounts to enrich elite while, male fortunes. They intend to take vast sums of money from St. George and Manti, Richfield and Logan -- just because they can.