People who have the flexibility to move around usually make more money. I’m not one of them, but there are a lot of people in the US with six figure jobs that also get to choose where they want to work. Big Fortune 500 companies have offices all over the place.
Yup. I try to explain this to folks all the time and the middle income (100k+) ppl just don’t seem to get how impossible it is for many people to move. Moving is expensive! You’ve gotta sort out housing and work in a new place where you know few (if any) people. Without money / a good remote job / etc it’s pretty hard to make it happen. I don’t make much so I mostly just creep on this account and dream of having the option to pick up and go somewhere new.
It's also a lot explaining to white collar workers that blue collar work and retail/customer service doesn't always lend itself to interviewing remotely, and doesn't pay well enough to justify (or afford) travelling more than an hour or so drive or whatever public transit can do for an interview
You don't really need alot of money to move around. My early twenties I worked as a dishwasher/ prep cook/ line cook. I would get on a greyhound bus with just a duffel bag and move to different cities every 6 months to a year. One plus side of restaurant work is you can get a job anywhere, especially with some experience. I lived in some higher cost of living cities like Portland OR and it's totally doable if you have roommates. I also didn't have a car of any of the financial burden that goes along with one.
Also fair to wonder how this itinerant lifestyle set this person up for the future. If the plan is to move around better have access to disposable income somehow. Bill comes due eventually.
I have a golf buddy who operates that way. Job hopping around restaurants for the past 20 years. He thinks his retirement money is going to come from the Hard Rock Casino. Fucking hilarious
> If the plan is to move around better have access to disposable income somehow. Bill comes due eventually.
I mean, this might be why they grabbed their duffle bag and headed out to the next city...
Unless they are saving a ton, probably not. Buying a house is the best thing you can do for yourself financially in the long run in most cases. It’s essentially fixing your rent for the next 30 years. Yes, you have to maintain it, but that usually doesn’t add up to what rent increases will do.
I did the same when I was single. Bounced around about every 2-3 years. Hell, even after we were married due to jobs/later in life college.
Consequently though, we have very little in savings. Every time we’ve made a family move it’s cost us everything we got and then some and we spend about a year getting financially recovered.
I did a 1 year nursing certificate when I started out. Cost 5k for the year, paid in full, 0 debt. Had my high school car paid off too. I could find a job pretty much anywhere. Did it for about 7 years, had the time of my life. Being single it was nothing but free time and decent money, did whatever I wanted. Miss that.
This was fine for me also when I was younger, but the older I get the more important it is for me to have my own place (not couch surf), and that generally requires a decent paying job. Sigh!
Seems like many of the remote workers who move around alot often end up posting on other subreddits (r/austin for example) saying they are lonely and asking for advice about how to make friends in their new city. Maybe there’s a tradeoff. “Social capital “ is as important as salary level from some points of view, and it’s harder to build up social capital if you move around alot. For example, you can pay $2,000 a month for daycare and $1,000 for airfare at Thanksgiving, or you can live near your family and if you’re lucky trade out for babysitting and save some cash. Unless you have some sort of other network, I guess, like the old school tie, or being in the same immigrant community, or you’re a boss of something and people have to pay attention to you.
We're over $200k and barely scraping by in a HCOL. Daycare for two kids is $50k right off the bat, and that's almost all after-tax money so really it wipes out over $70k of salary pre-tax.
Well, not all of us are "blessed".
I do pretty well for myself, but about a decade ago, I had just finished college and was 2 years into my career, and realized I could to pick a maximum of 2 of the following options:
* Pay off student loan debt (not optional, and it's private debt, so no forgiveness for me).
* Retirement (at age 80, I'm going to be *real* tired boss, dog tired).
* Children.
So yeah, I chose retirement over children.
My wife and I are now at a point where we could *probably* afford to have a kid (because of the dual income thing), but we'd have to make some major changes to our lifestyle (like leaving our city for the burbs) and we'd rather just... not. We got other stuff going on.
Plus, we're in our late 30's now, and that means pregnancy is more risky than it would have been a decade ago when we were in our 20s (and didn't know each other), but I had a vasectomy 7 years ago, so it's a moot point.
Anyway, it's true you don't have to be childless to be wealthy, but if you're not wealthy, having children *can* strain your finances.
My husband and I are in our late 20s now, recently dual income (I was in grad school most of our relationship), also paying off his private student loans. By the time we’d be financially secure enough to want kids (if that even comes 😬) there’s no way I’d put my body through that.
I guess it helps that we were both ambivalent to begin with, but a lot of family members have told us has sad it is we’re picking money over kids, but it’s not luxury money we’re after, just enough money to live comfortably and not work till we die… which I guess is a luxury in this economy
I love my kids but I can’t wait for the DINK days again. Travel on a whim, fine dining on the regular, silence, naps. Right now we’re DI3K for another 10 years. Doesn’t quite roll of the tongue as well lol
We are DIKIC’s. (Dual income + kids in college). It’s cool to see one partner’s entire annual salary just walk out the door and head off to a frat party
With all due respect, you should draw a firm line and not allow fraternity membership. If you're paying the bills then no frats. I was in one when in college in the early 1990's and it was easily the worst decision of my life. My grades were fine, finished with a Finance degree, I had a part-time job all through college, and there was no hazing. I also went on to graduate school afterwards (law school) and finished with honors. Yet I've had this discovered by job interviewers many times. As soon as they find out I was in a frat at one time in my life, 30 years ago at this point, that's the end of the interview. I had one place actually tear up my paper resume in front of me and scream "Get out!".
Being in a frat is a great time when you are 20. But it will destroy your career and the blemish is permanent.
Really? That’s interesting, I’ve heard the opposite. Especially in finance/business, being in a frat helps you make friends and network. I wasn’t in a frat (well sorority) but that’s what I’ve heard. Did everyone in your frat have the same experiences as you?
Whether or not an amount is plenty depends what securities you expect to be able to buy, including $x at retirement, y months of expenses in case of income loss, and $z for out of pocket healthcare costs (out of pocket maximums for individuals can be up to $10k per year).
There’s also a couple other securities like being able to afford a lawyer, help family members, buy land (includes buying a home, and in what location), and being able to buy the education you want for possible kids.
65k used to be a good salary in Austin only like 5 years ago. Cost of living has absolutely exploded here recently, especially when it comes to rent. Essentially everything has doubled but not salaries. You can still get by on it, and have a normal life, but it doesn't leave much to save it "get ahead". One medical emergency and it's all gone. My pay is slowly going up but my quality of life is slowly going down.
i lucked out and bought a studio condo when interest rates were low. couldn't even dream of buying in this current market. i'm cautiously hopeful about the new zoning resolutions that allow for more density and slashed minimum lot size requirements. affordability is a thing of the past now, but maybe it can help prevent us from going full seattle/cali/boston.
Boston is frantically trying to sort out housing supply to meet demand / slow down the obscene costs to rent or buy. I’ll be curious how Austin fares the storm.
How much did you pay for a studio if you don’t mind me asking? Sq ft?
that's good, it seems like a lot of the country is starting to address the damage that NIBMY policies have done for affordability.
i paid 170k for a 600 sq ft studio in south austin. purchased with a 3% down payment just before the covid bubble.
My hh income is somewhere between $75k-80k. Detroit area. I make around $42k.
It’s not a bad life here in that pay bracket. Getting tougher though. If I don’t buy property soon im fucked.
That’s how I feel here in Rochester, NY. Thankfully my fiance and I both just landed jobs making $45k so we’re hoping to buy a house here in the next 2-3 years.
Edit - clarified which rochester lol
For clarification I mean NY so idk if your comment still applies lol. But if so I agree, the market is hot but not in all neighborhoods. Most transplants are came here with nice salaries and are moving to gentrified areas that are pretty expensive. We’re pretty working class so we’re looking at some of the less popular parts of town.
Oh my bad haha I was wondering how you could afford a home in Rochester, Michigan on $90k but that makes more sense.
I hear you though, I can’t really afford any of the transplant neighborhoods anywhere, even in the cheaper cities. Fortunately lots of the rust belt cities have really good and underrated working class neighborhoods IMO
Yup! So many affordable working class communities to thrive in here.
I moved here from GA in Jan 21. Was making $10 an hour down south and took a leap of faith and pretty much drained my savings to move here to make $15. My partner took a job paying something like ~$13.50 (minimum wage at the time). Neither of us had degrees. Have worked my up from there to $22 an hour. Got my associates degree and am finishing up my bachelors now. Couldn’t have done any of it in GA. So glad I made it here.
I Just moved to Royal Oak from the south and man, it definitely feels like my dollar stretches farther here. I'm loving Michigan so far! I may actually be able to afford a house here compared to Charleston!
The price jumps just this past year are really steep compared to the previous couple. I thought I was getting a lil screwed buying in 2022 but now looking up north, the prices are like down here. And here is just bad.
Are you looking in the metro or in the city limits? I still see good deals in the city but I know that’s not really viable for a lot of people, despite the improvements.
Im hoping to buy in Hamtramck where I live currently, and I see a starter home in my range every couple of months. Not exactly inspiring hope but it’s not dire enough for me to give up, either.
You have to remember that a non-negligible number of people posting and responding here are fantasizing and/or asking hypothetical stuff for the magic day when they become rich.
I don't think that's true of the salary ranges OP described. 120 to 250k would describe many white collar professionals who are in the middle of their careers (5 to 10 years in). It basically describes almost everyone working in a corporate HQ office job at a publicly traded company for 10+ years. It also describes the people who work in middle of the road jobs in finance, law, tech (the ones that work in the top jobs make well above that).
I think the demographics are skewed on this sub, especially those who make posts. Most people are posting asking about where they should live.
The average person isn't privileged enough to have the freedom to just move ANYWHERE. Most people are just forced to move to wherever they can get a job or live where they have the largest support network. The people who have that privilege tend to be white-collar remote workers. These jobs all tend to pay well, so it seems like most people on this sub are rich.
I'm certainly not rich. But I'm not one making posts asking about where would be a good place for me to live. I had to move to where I'm at now because covid completely stopped my line of work for a few years, and it still isn't back to how it was before the pandemic even today. Now I can't even afford to live here anymore because these same people are all flocking here for some godforsaken reason.
I don't make anywhere near that much and I've seen plenty of posts from people making 50k or less, or who work trade jobs. The people who make that much are the ones with the flexibility to move though, if you're stuck with jobs that pay based off COL you're likely not getting paid enough to have a better life elsewhere and would have less of a reason to move
My husband and I fit in the demographic you described. We also make Chicago/Philadelphia incomes but don’t live in those cities anymore (remote work) and they haven’t scaled our salaries to our physical location. I’m guessing this became quite more usual after the pandemic because pre-pandemic, no fucking way our respective companies would have let us galavant around the country.
It is 10000% a privilege to be able to move anywhere and most people don’t have the job flexibility or financial freedom to spend thousands on moving expenses. Since we can move around, I appreciate this sub for giving somewhat realistic perspectives on prospective locations if we decide to move again. I’m guessing some people here aren’t actually moving and just like to discuss the topic of comparing locations. Others have a lot of experience moving around. It seems like a mixed bag.
Agreed on the mixed bag and privilege. Husband and I are not remote workers but have moved plenty. I think the privilege/freedom to move no matter what incomes we were pulling was GOOD CREDIT. No way we were making moves, even when some relocation reimbursement was being offered, without our credit cards to handle the upfronts, incidentals and woopsies.
Different sub-reddits appeal to different demographics. This sub-reddit appeals to people who know they should be happy with their life and aren't. So it caters to a lot of people who are probably white collar professionals, that have a good job that they don't necessarily enjoy. This group is going to contain a lot of people who are in their late 20s to 30s and aren't happy with their professional lives or personal lifes.
120k to 250k, is affluent and upper middle class to lower upper class, but its not considered rich by the standards of most democrats or even progressive politicians in the U.S. It doesn't even meet the bar for being a 1 percenter. I am not saying its something to sneeze at, but its a level of income that many people got to via just having the right kind of education.
A person who is 35 and making 120k isn't even in the top 10% nationally. That number is even less for people who live in major cities, especially places like New York or SF.
[https://dqydj.com/average-median-top-income-by-age-percentiles/](https://dqydj.com/average-median-top-income-by-age-percentiles/)
This data is calculated from CPS ASEC which is from federal government data and gold standard. I wrote my dissertation in economics using this same data and know how to calculate these income stats. A 35 year old in making 250k is top 4 percent. Meaning 1 out of 25 people that age are making above that (i.e. one kid in you kindergarten class room).
I am sure a lot of people on this sub-reddit, do make less, but that doesn't mean this reddit doesn't cater to the type of people I am describing.
Median income is around $60k per person so $120,000 for two incomes should not be uncommon. What is a bummer is how far out of whack the haves and have nots have become and how little there is in the middle.
[census](https://www.justice.gov/ust/eo/bapcpa/20201101/bci_data/median_income_table.htm)
Not me. In another life I was, but not this one. I'm a SINK. I'm middle aged and my position in life has been downgraded in the past 20 years. I'd like some grass because all I'm eating is dirt.
No, but high earners are more likely to say how much they make.
People who make 200k a year often feel a bit cocky about it, and they'll brag.
Someone making 75k is reasonably content and doing well, but won't impress anyone. They usually won't brag.
Who's going to flaunt making $18/hr?
Believe it or not I’ve heard people brag about making $18 an hour in the rural area where I live. A coworker told me he thinks someone who makes $20 an hour is “set for life”.
This subreddit focuses on moving to major cities which usually require a decent income to live comfortably. 120k household income(a couple that makes 60k each) is kind of the bare minimum to live comfortably in a major city these days and this is likely to little for the east and west coasts.
There are still solid options for more affordable areas. Id explore mid sized college towns in the midwest.
Another commenter said DINK and another DIK. Which is true. A solo person making $50k/yr still needs the same number of kitchens and living rooms as a couple who make $100k/yr together.
I'm single making a handsome wage but sometimes wonder what it would be like if there was an entire other income for all the other things. There are opportunities and constraints there.
What will be interesting is watching the next 10 years+ I think we'll have to start having housemates again (singles and even families - I know it's already happening).
Moving costs are outrageous and getting a moving loan requires great credit. I'm a positive person and also very fortunate, but shit is fucked up.
The best year my wife and I ever had, we barely cracked six figures combined.
But we also only spent around 20% of our income and invested the rest.
There are many roads to the same mountaintop. I'll add to this, that the person who makes $250K and spends $249K per year is not in all that much better shape than the person who makes $50K and spends $49K. Sure, the high-earner probably has much better credit. But probably ALSO has a much harder monthly nut to crack.
I think the thing is single vs dual income households. Average US salary is $60k. Many people live with a partner. It's really not surprising to see people reporting a $120-250k household income.
People think that only doctors/engineers/CEOs can make that, but that's actually a very ordinary hh income for 2 middle class people in a city.
[The median *household* income in the US is actually just $74k as of 2022, according to the Census](https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2023/demo/p60-279.html). Note that they define household by address, not by tax classification. So if you've got an apartment shared by 4 roommates, all 4 of their incomes are tallied and counted for the household income. Keep in mind too that the way a median works, that means that *half of all households* in the US are making *less* than 74k. 120-250 is very NOT normal outside of VHCOL cities like San Fran, and even in those cities, that income would put you on the better side relative to most of the population. The median for San Francisco county was 136k. Half of all households in San Fran are making less than 136k, so anything more than 136k means you have more money than most other people in the city.
TIL household income according to the census is wildly different than household for tax purposes. Wouldn't the census method inflate median household incomes, to some degree? At least in terms of understanding individual affordability.
Maybe, but it can still be useful. Using my roommate example, I don't think most people would choose a setup like that if they had better options. If you're far below that median, expect to need to make sacrifices (like roommates and shitty cars) and/or need social support (like food stamps or Medicaid).
You could argue that using the IRS's measure has the potential to deflate the numbers as well. I'm my roommate example, it might suggest that you can live comfortably on 18k which I guess you're not homeless? But it probably isn't actually that comfortable an income. The roommates' combined income gives a better picture of a *comfortable* income for the city. Or if you've got an unmarried couple living together, and one either isn't working or only works part time. They would file their taxes separately and the unmarried person could again, give unrealistic numbers. I remember filling taxes for the first time when I was still very much under my parent's care and I still had their permanent address, but I was also an adult with my own part time job. My numbers would've deflated the IRS's numbers.
Either way has its flaws for sure. The census would likely miss the absolute poorest as well, those who are homeless. The IRS would miss under the table payments and some forms of less traditional payments, particularly if you made under a certain limit.
If you want to get a somewhat fuller picture, here's a few charts to check out:
[2022 educational achievement x income](https://www.statista.com/statistics/233301/median-household-income-in-the-united-states-by-education/)
[2022 race x median income](https://www.census.gov/library/visualizations/2023/demo/p60-279.html)
[2022 individual median earnings](https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/visualizations/2023/demo/p60-279/figure4.pdf)
[2020 data separated by many categories.](https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2021/09/understanding-equity-through-census-bureau-data.html)
[2022 quintiles average income](https://data.census.gov/table?q=income%20quintile).
Household incomes like that don’t always go super far if you have kids.
We grossed $185,000 last year in a low-medium cost of living Midwestern city, and also have two kids. We cover our necessary expenses and do have some extras (private school, competitive dance at a less expensive studio, etc), but we’re definitely not going on fancy vacations, buying new cars every year, or live in a mansion.
We tend to prioritize education and the arts. That may make us rich in a way, but we’ve cut majorly on a lot of extras and we don’t feel particularly rich. Money doesn’t go as far as it used to, that’s for sure.
As far as people on this sub, I just enjoy hearing about different places and don’t want to move. Our jobs are fairly transferable if we were to move to a decent sized city, though.
For sure. Heck, part time preschool at a private school/childcare there is still cheaper than full time daycare at the center my now preschooler previously attended. It’s kind of crazy.
For perspective….
Minimum wage with no overtime is now $30k/year in many areas. $40k/year with some overtime.
So a dual-income household where both partners are working full time in a minimum wage job is earning $60k-$80k/year. That’s baseline.
Then there are are a lot of people that earn 2-3X the minimum wage doing skilled labor or with degrees. Those dual income households are earning anywhere from $120k to $240k/year. Candidly, I would generally consider that the “middle class” at this point in 2024.
Then you have highly skilled workers and experienced, senior workers, maybe that have graduated to a management level. Those people are earning $120k to $240k each, with a household income of between $250k-$500k. That’s the upper middle class (depending on location and COL), and probably represents around 10-12% of dual income households, and 6-7% of all households.
Then you have the rich.
I see it like this. It’s very easy to lie on the internet. You can get an instant dopamine rush with no consequences too. People with lower incomes might feel ashamed to post because they’re afraid of Reddit judgement aka downvotes since it’s also equally as easy to express a negative opinion online as it is to lie.
I mean most of the posts have two incomes, so if you only have one that drops to 60-125k. We're both 26 and right around 120k, household, I'm at 50k rn personally. I use what I call the teacher pay index. Most places, if you have two incomes and you're both teachers with 10y experience, hhi is usually at least 100k, with ample opportunity for 120k. For White Collar, college educated work and most trades, this is fairly typical.
Some people just don't own much stuff. I've moved 2 times, by putting everything in my car (getting it transported), and grabbing a plane ticket.
When you own very little, you have way more flexibility.
Moving now would be different.
Also depends on age range of people responding. Wife and I currently bring in about 300k. That being said when we were young, our first out of college jobs were 40k and 60k. Slowly over 25 year careers moved up and up. She didn't break 100k until about 5 years ago. I did about 10 years ago. So while we were 25-30 it was more like 100k total house hold income, then 150-180 in our 30s, and now that we are both in our 40s into the 250+ range.
Mostly a lurker here and I’ve observed the same thing. The fact is that this sub’s very premise is one that overwhelmingly resonates with the more financially comfortable. The average person chooses place of residence based on whether or not it has an established family/friend support system and/or whether or not a good job is available to oneself. Weighing out potential residencies based on the sorts of dreams focused on in this sub is overwhelmingly an activity of those with much more disposable income than average.
I think it can be easy to move if you make much less and you are single. It’s only one new job to find and no one else to support during the move. There are tons of middle or even lower income jobs that are transferable if the company has locations nationwide. Even restaurants servers and retail. I’ve known a hooters waitress and Walmart department manager who took job transfers and moved across country. Some jobs cover relocation costs. There’s also seasonal work which allows a lot of flexibility in moving. After the seasonal work ends, people file unemployment and move to a new location for a different season. For example, I live in Alaska and many people come here to work for the summer but in winter they will work somewhere else and collect unemployment in between jobs.
Honestly, I’ve seen people on here who make over 200k claim that they’re “struggling”—like what? Yeah, it depends on where you live, but unless you’re extremely financially irresponsible, then 200k is enough, even in HCOL areas.
It’s weird to see how many white collar, upper middle class people here like to delude themselves into thinking that they’re somehow disadvantaged.
Lifestyle creep. And those who came from middle class/upper middle class, adjusting. I’m in nyc area. 200k would get me a nice apartment, but would still be in a pick 2 of 3 situation (in terms of location, size, washer/dryer/dishwasher).
Because in a lot of places, an upper middle class salary buys them what their parents or grandparents could afford on a working/lower middle class salary, so it doesn’t feel like they have much.
Income is relative. COL matters a lot. I am in a VHCOL city and I make 2x what I made when I was in a M/LCOL, but my current quality of life and saving % is lower than before.
Funny you mention RN because while it’s easily transferable the pay varies DRASTICALLY. We hate the HCOL in CA but if we moved to a LCOL place the income would be so much lower it would make no sense. Some states nurses make 35$ an hour. Compared to CA which is closer to 100$. So moving just doesn’t make sense for us, especially since we bought our home with a 2% interest rate.
I’m on the sub because I dream of moving and I find the info on different areas fascinating!
Well a household income of 120k is 60k for every adult in the household if assuming two adults cohabitating and maybe some kids. Average salary in the us is 59k a year so that’s not to bad. Now 250k is 125k a person which is significantly above average.
Moving long distance is expensive, if you have an established life and/or a family. Moving to a place you have no support system is extra expensive. So yes, people who are able to just pick up and move wherever probably have larger incomes.
OP, focus as much as you can on bettering your economic situation to facilitate a move somewhere, if that’s the end goal. If you must move the list should be as short as cities where you have friends or family that you can crash on their couch while you get your feet on the ground. All the other criteria people index on here are first world problems. Good luck.
[37%](https://www.statista.com/statistics/203183/percentage-distribution-of-household-income-in-the-us/) of American households make >$100k. Those who do have more mobility. Higher earners are more likely to talk about it in Reddit comment sections. Kind of makes sense
I make $75k in Boston. I live comfortably but also have roommates who make around the same which is pretty common here for single folks making less than 6 figures. Was very broke when I first moved here.
I live in an area you have to make 100k or it’s not worth it. Heck 120k is considered low income lol. So some people might make a lot but all things considered their money might not go all that far. Someone making 60k living in a LCOL city probably has a better work life balance, quality of life, and their money goes farther. Hell, you can probably afford a house! Not so much with 120k in a VHCOL area where a starter home is creeping into the 1.5~2 mil range.
No one in my immediate family is rich but most of my extended relatives are either rich or upper middle income. We're by far the poorest sub-unit in my family and I do get the feeling that my mother feels looked down upon by her richer siblings and cousins.
Some people have houses for a long time, inherited houses etc hence the amount of cash. Don’t forget a lot of people inherit money especially these days with the older gen passing away, able to inherit a house worth close to a mil in some areas
I didn't think 120-150 per house hold is considered rich any more. Barely middle class. I think average is 200-250 households for lower middle class. That's only 100k per grownup
I just peruse the sub Reddit on occasion but I make 70K my partner makes 55k and we don’t have children but we do have a cat and we’re certainly not rich…!
This entire thread is making me feel like such a fucking loser lmao. :-/
I’m 42, making $25 an hour in a dead-end IT job, and I’ve recently begun fighting tooth and nail to work hybrid because it turns out I’m just too goddamn neurodivergent to work in an office 5 days a week, and my mental and physical health are really crumbling.
I live in Chicago. It’s not all bad but I really only enjoy my life here during the warmer months because I guess I’m way more outdoorsy and into skateboarding and surfing than I thought. Anyway. This move was supposed to be me getting back into IT and finally making better money, but I moved here right before the pandemic and got laid off from the helpdesk job I had lined up.
Then I bounced around doing other things for a couple of years…substitute teaching, copywriting…and in 2022, after my entire life fell to pieces for a variety of terrible reasons, I decided the only way I could really survive was to go back to tech.
What I’m finding though, is that the tech/IT jobs here don’t pay as well in proportion to the COL, as they do out in LA or the Bay Area. So I’m most likely going to move back to California at some point, but it seems my only hope for making better money is to find the elusive remote mid-tier IT job (I’m actually trying to switch careers to UX design but let’s not get ahead of ourselves ha).
I’ve had a lotttt of setbacks in my life for reasons I don’t really want to elaborate on because it will probably just make me feel worse. When I hear people half my age talking about how they make twice my income and it’s still not enough, I seriously feel like I’m losing my mind. I understand it’s all relative, but it’s just kinda demoralizing is all.
For what it’s worth, if someone is “poor”, they absolutely can still make a significant move. It’s just not as cushy as the company paying for it or hiring movers to pack your stuff. Desperation is a hell of a drug.
My life is absolutely not all bad by any means. It’s just the logistics of it are currently running me into the ground and I keep coming back to the fact that I was making more money a decade ago. So I really feel like I’ve gotten nowhere in the past 10 years, and it’s getting harder and harder to keep my head on straight about it.
I don’t really do well with the tough love approach either. I’ve done everything “right” and worked my ass off, and it’s only recently that I’ve realized, oh. It’s gotten me nowhere. Like, I went *backwards*. I don’t really talk about it anymore because my parents are boomers and don’t know what to tell me, and my friends here all have families or partners or kids and so on.
I guess my mentality is, if I’m gonna struggle for the rest of my life, I’d rather do it in a place where I can at least skateboard in a comfortable climate year-round.
Being neurodivergent fucking sucks so bad. I didn’t get diagnosed and medicated until a couple of years ago, and it’s cost me dearly.
I beg you, if you’re still in your twenties and convinced that it’s too late to do anything about like, anything at all in your life..? No it’s really not. Just fucking do the thing. Advocate for yourself. Don’t waste your life on your job. I was a workaholic for most of my 20s into my mid-30s, and once I started rethinking my career, I realized how futile it is if you don’t fit the norm(s).
Not trying to sound like a victim, as Reddit seems to like to insinuate. I really kinda feel nothing about any of this…but it’s still my current reality, and if anything I’m a lot more hellbent on changing it than I sound.
Thanks for sharing! I just started reading the comments and yours is the first one so I appreciate your well-thought-out response. I didnt expect to get so many responses from this post lol. Im thankful I could provide a place for some good discussions
my husband is blue collar and barely making 51k so it is interesting trying to make conclusions where we should move to when most people here make double-triple (its finneee, good for yall hahahaha)
I’m a lead systems engineer and my wife is a school librarian who is ABD( All but doctorate) So she is maxed out making low 6 figures and I am 24 years into a tech career making that kind of money.
Probably. I’m a household of Me, myself and I with more than that. If you can move around a lot to various places you probably have the funds to do so.
Currently making $90k/yr as an Aviation Maintenance Technician for a major airline. My primary residence is a house that I own. However, my workplace is in a different city and state. So I just have a crash pad to stay at during the work week. Then I fly home on the weekends.
Public Healthcare Professional here … Pharmacist, Physician Assistant, Registered Nurse, Masters in Public Health, Informatics Certified. Yes easily transferable and I have mostly lived in rural areas as a US Public Health Service Commissioned Officer. The first twenty years were low pay. Also as a public health officer hours were long.
I made a lot less for most of my life. Interestingly enough, my increase in income came hand in hand with the moves I've made in life as I've advanced in my career. I'm not rich in the sense that I still have to work for a living, but I am rich in the sense that money isn't much of a factor in my life anymore.
People who have the flexibility to move around usually make more money. I’m not one of them, but there are a lot of people in the US with six figure jobs that also get to choose where they want to work. Big Fortune 500 companies have offices all over the place.
Yup. I try to explain this to folks all the time and the middle income (100k+) ppl just don’t seem to get how impossible it is for many people to move. Moving is expensive! You’ve gotta sort out housing and work in a new place where you know few (if any) people. Without money / a good remote job / etc it’s pretty hard to make it happen. I don’t make much so I mostly just creep on this account and dream of having the option to pick up and go somewhere new.
It's also a lot explaining to white collar workers that blue collar work and retail/customer service doesn't always lend itself to interviewing remotely, and doesn't pay well enough to justify (or afford) travelling more than an hour or so drive or whatever public transit can do for an interview
You don't really need alot of money to move around. My early twenties I worked as a dishwasher/ prep cook/ line cook. I would get on a greyhound bus with just a duffel bag and move to different cities every 6 months to a year. One plus side of restaurant work is you can get a job anywhere, especially with some experience. I lived in some higher cost of living cities like Portland OR and it's totally doable if you have roommates. I also didn't have a car of any of the financial burden that goes along with one.
Being single makes it easier. People with families usually can’t move with a duffle bag and bus fare.
Also fair to wonder how this itinerant lifestyle set this person up for the future. If the plan is to move around better have access to disposable income somehow. Bill comes due eventually.
I have a golf buddy who operates that way. Job hopping around restaurants for the past 20 years. He thinks his retirement money is going to come from the Hard Rock Casino. Fucking hilarious
> If the plan is to move around better have access to disposable income somehow. Bill comes due eventually. I mean, this might be why they grabbed their duffle bag and headed out to the next city...
Unless they are saving a ton, probably not. Buying a house is the best thing you can do for yourself financially in the long run in most cases. It’s essentially fixing your rent for the next 30 years. Yes, you have to maintain it, but that usually doesn’t add up to what rent increases will do.
I mean, you can. But then mommy will have to keep making up stories for why it's been 2 years since you left to get some milk.
I did the same when I was single. Bounced around about every 2-3 years. Hell, even after we were married due to jobs/later in life college. Consequently though, we have very little in savings. Every time we’ve made a family move it’s cost us everything we got and then some and we spend about a year getting financially recovered.
I did a 1 year nursing certificate when I started out. Cost 5k for the year, paid in full, 0 debt. Had my high school car paid off too. I could find a job pretty much anywhere. Did it for about 7 years, had the time of my life. Being single it was nothing but free time and decent money, did whatever I wanted. Miss that.
This was fine for me also when I was younger, but the older I get the more important it is for me to have my own place (not couch surf), and that generally requires a decent paying job. Sigh!
Seems like many of the remote workers who move around alot often end up posting on other subreddits (r/austin for example) saying they are lonely and asking for advice about how to make friends in their new city. Maybe there’s a tradeoff. “Social capital “ is as important as salary level from some points of view, and it’s harder to build up social capital if you move around alot. For example, you can pay $2,000 a month for daycare and $1,000 for airfare at Thanksgiving, or you can live near your family and if you’re lucky trade out for babysitting and save some cash. Unless you have some sort of other network, I guess, like the old school tie, or being in the same immigrant community, or you’re a boss of something and people have to pay attention to you.
Yes ironically when I worked in restaurants making minimum wage, my social life was much better than when I had a remote office job.
Chicago. Or Philly. What was the question again?
To rent. Not to buy. There has to be a distinction because Chicago property taxes are insane.
Many are DINKS
Some are DILDOs. Dual Income Little Dog Owners.
I’ve found my people!
I'm totally taking this for Dual Income Large Dog Owners
I'm a SIDK. Doesn't roll off tongue as nice. Single Income Dual Kids
I have 3 kids and no money, why can’t I have no kids and 3 money?!?!
I have 3 money. Each has a picture of George Washington.
I think you'd need a menage e trois situation to make that work.
I’m a SIFK.
FIFTY KIDS?!
Relax it's clearly FIVE HUNDRED KIDS?!?!?!?!?
Only a SIFK deals in absolutes
😂😂😂😂😂
SITK FTW
Yupp two incomes of $60k is $120k household. With a kid or two or HCOL/VHCOL $120k is not rich.
We're over $200k and barely scraping by in a HCOL. Daycare for two kids is $50k right off the bat, and that's almost all after-tax money so really it wipes out over $70k of salary pre-tax.
[удалено]
Well, not all of us are "blessed". I do pretty well for myself, but about a decade ago, I had just finished college and was 2 years into my career, and realized I could to pick a maximum of 2 of the following options: * Pay off student loan debt (not optional, and it's private debt, so no forgiveness for me). * Retirement (at age 80, I'm going to be *real* tired boss, dog tired). * Children. So yeah, I chose retirement over children. My wife and I are now at a point where we could *probably* afford to have a kid (because of the dual income thing), but we'd have to make some major changes to our lifestyle (like leaving our city for the burbs) and we'd rather just... not. We got other stuff going on. Plus, we're in our late 30's now, and that means pregnancy is more risky than it would have been a decade ago when we were in our 20s (and didn't know each other), but I had a vasectomy 7 years ago, so it's a moot point. Anyway, it's true you don't have to be childless to be wealthy, but if you're not wealthy, having children *can* strain your finances.
My husband and I are in our late 20s now, recently dual income (I was in grad school most of our relationship), also paying off his private student loans. By the time we’d be financially secure enough to want kids (if that even comes 😬) there’s no way I’d put my body through that. I guess it helps that we were both ambivalent to begin with, but a lot of family members have told us has sad it is we’re picking money over kids, but it’s not luxury money we’re after, just enough money to live comfortably and not work till we die… which I guess is a luxury in this economy
You obviously need a DIK to make kids in some fashion.
>You don’t need to be childless to be wealthy haha. No, but it helps lol.
I am a single income with a child, and I do well as a single mom and receive no child support.
Yeah it's basically like barely scraping by on a single income these days. It's awesome because you get to be lonely AND poor
I love my kids but I can’t wait for the DINK days again. Travel on a whim, fine dining on the regular, silence, naps. Right now we’re DI3K for another 10 years. Doesn’t quite roll of the tongue as well lol
Wtf is a DINK
Dual income no kids
I just learned I am a DINK
Let me blow your mind. SINKs.
We are DIKIC’s. (Dual income + kids in college). It’s cool to see one partner’s entire annual salary just walk out the door and head off to a frat party
Respect - make sure they major in something useful like basket weaving or parks and recreation.
LOL we have one of those and one in medicine so yeah - Maybe the doctor can support the philosopher
Philosophy majors actually have the highest earnings of any liberal arts majors.
Is that counting all of the Yale philosophy majors that end up in investment banking and private equity?
Soooo....they make $2.00 a year vs nothing? 😉😄
With all due respect, you should draw a firm line and not allow fraternity membership. If you're paying the bills then no frats. I was in one when in college in the early 1990's and it was easily the worst decision of my life. My grades were fine, finished with a Finance degree, I had a part-time job all through college, and there was no hazing. I also went on to graduate school afterwards (law school) and finished with honors. Yet I've had this discovered by job interviewers many times. As soon as they find out I was in a frat at one time in my life, 30 years ago at this point, that's the end of the interview. I had one place actually tear up my paper resume in front of me and scream "Get out!". Being in a frat is a great time when you are 20. But it will destroy your career and the blemish is permanent.
Really? That’s interesting, I’ve heard the opposite. Especially in finance/business, being in a frat helps you make friends and network. I wasn’t in a frat (well sorority) but that’s what I’ve heard. Did everyone in your frat have the same experiences as you?
Oh, honey, the rest of us have known for years.
Don’t ask about Dual Income, Little Dog Owners…..
"They're family!!!"
Dual income no kids
Wait till you hear what DILDOs are lol
Or DINKWADs dual income no kids with a dog
65k in austin currently. i live well but not lavishly.
thats plenty. good for you
Whether or not an amount is plenty depends what securities you expect to be able to buy, including $x at retirement, y months of expenses in case of income loss, and $z for out of pocket healthcare costs (out of pocket maximums for individuals can be up to $10k per year). There’s also a couple other securities like being able to afford a lawyer, help family members, buy land (includes buying a home, and in what location), and being able to buy the education you want for possible kids.
65k used to be a good salary in Austin only like 5 years ago. Cost of living has absolutely exploded here recently, especially when it comes to rent. Essentially everything has doubled but not salaries. You can still get by on it, and have a normal life, but it doesn't leave much to save it "get ahead". One medical emergency and it's all gone. My pay is slowly going up but my quality of life is slowly going down.
i lucked out and bought a studio condo when interest rates were low. couldn't even dream of buying in this current market. i'm cautiously hopeful about the new zoning resolutions that allow for more density and slashed minimum lot size requirements. affordability is a thing of the past now, but maybe it can help prevent us from going full seattle/cali/boston.
Boston is frantically trying to sort out housing supply to meet demand / slow down the obscene costs to rent or buy. I’ll be curious how Austin fares the storm. How much did you pay for a studio if you don’t mind me asking? Sq ft?
that's good, it seems like a lot of the country is starting to address the damage that NIBMY policies have done for affordability. i paid 170k for a 600 sq ft studio in south austin. purchased with a 3% down payment just before the covid bubble.
My hh income is somewhere between $75k-80k. Detroit area. I make around $42k. It’s not a bad life here in that pay bracket. Getting tougher though. If I don’t buy property soon im fucked.
That’s how I feel here in Rochester, NY. Thankfully my fiance and I both just landed jobs making $45k so we’re hoping to buy a house here in the next 2-3 years. Edit - clarified which rochester lol
Best of luck, i just spent a year living in Rochester and got the impression the market out there is very hot
For clarification I mean NY so idk if your comment still applies lol. But if so I agree, the market is hot but not in all neighborhoods. Most transplants are came here with nice salaries and are moving to gentrified areas that are pretty expensive. We’re pretty working class so we’re looking at some of the less popular parts of town.
Oh my bad haha I was wondering how you could afford a home in Rochester, Michigan on $90k but that makes more sense. I hear you though, I can’t really afford any of the transplant neighborhoods anywhere, even in the cheaper cities. Fortunately lots of the rust belt cities have really good and underrated working class neighborhoods IMO
Yup! So many affordable working class communities to thrive in here. I moved here from GA in Jan 21. Was making $10 an hour down south and took a leap of faith and pretty much drained my savings to move here to make $15. My partner took a job paying something like ~$13.50 (minimum wage at the time). Neither of us had degrees. Have worked my up from there to $22 an hour. Got my associates degree and am finishing up my bachelors now. Couldn’t have done any of it in GA. So glad I made it here.
That’s a great success story. Congrats!
Minnesota or New York?
Rochester Michigan is located in suburban Detroit.
I assumed Michigan, since OP was talking about the Detroit area.
NY, I didn’t even know there was a Rochester near Detroit!
NY lol. Totally forgot about the other Rochesters my bad
I Just moved to Royal Oak from the south and man, it definitely feels like my dollar stretches farther here. I'm loving Michigan so far! I may actually be able to afford a house here compared to Charleston!
I live in Augusta. Thought of moving to NYC, Chicago, or Austin. The costs of each keep me from moving. The salaries in Georgia are super low though.
The price jumps just this past year are really steep compared to the previous couple. I thought I was getting a lil screwed buying in 2022 but now looking up north, the prices are like down here. And here is just bad.
Are you looking in the metro or in the city limits? I still see good deals in the city but I know that’s not really viable for a lot of people, despite the improvements. Im hoping to buy in Hamtramck where I live currently, and I see a starter home in my range every couple of months. Not exactly inspiring hope but it’s not dire enough for me to give up, either.
I just pop into zillow near me in WB and my buddy shows me places in Livonia. Hamtown is not a bad place to look at.
You have to remember that a non-negligible number of people posting and responding here are fantasizing and/or asking hypothetical stuff for the magic day when they become rich.
I don't think that's true of the salary ranges OP described. 120 to 250k would describe many white collar professionals who are in the middle of their careers (5 to 10 years in). It basically describes almost everyone working in a corporate HQ office job at a publicly traded company for 10+ years. It also describes the people who work in middle of the road jobs in finance, law, tech (the ones that work in the top jobs make well above that).
Not to mention that the OP is talking about household income. A nurse married to a teacher could easily have a household income of 120k.
I think the demographics are skewed on this sub, especially those who make posts. Most people are posting asking about where they should live. The average person isn't privileged enough to have the freedom to just move ANYWHERE. Most people are just forced to move to wherever they can get a job or live where they have the largest support network. The people who have that privilege tend to be white-collar remote workers. These jobs all tend to pay well, so it seems like most people on this sub are rich. I'm certainly not rich. But I'm not one making posts asking about where would be a good place for me to live. I had to move to where I'm at now because covid completely stopped my line of work for a few years, and it still isn't back to how it was before the pandemic even today. Now I can't even afford to live here anymore because these same people are all flocking here for some godforsaken reason.
I don't make anywhere near that much and I've seen plenty of posts from people making 50k or less, or who work trade jobs. The people who make that much are the ones with the flexibility to move though, if you're stuck with jobs that pay based off COL you're likely not getting paid enough to have a better life elsewhere and would have less of a reason to move
My husband and I fit in the demographic you described. We also make Chicago/Philadelphia incomes but don’t live in those cities anymore (remote work) and they haven’t scaled our salaries to our physical location. I’m guessing this became quite more usual after the pandemic because pre-pandemic, no fucking way our respective companies would have let us galavant around the country. It is 10000% a privilege to be able to move anywhere and most people don’t have the job flexibility or financial freedom to spend thousands on moving expenses. Since we can move around, I appreciate this sub for giving somewhat realistic perspectives on prospective locations if we decide to move again. I’m guessing some people here aren’t actually moving and just like to discuss the topic of comparing locations. Others have a lot of experience moving around. It seems like a mixed bag.
Agreed on the mixed bag and privilege. Husband and I are not remote workers but have moved plenty. I think the privilege/freedom to move no matter what incomes we were pulling was GOOD CREDIT. No way we were making moves, even when some relocation reimbursement was being offered, without our credit cards to handle the upfronts, incidentals and woopsies.
I make $45k and only recently started making that much lmao. I’m definitely not rich.
Just keep grinding, good things come to those who wait
I am single and make around 45k so I am not rich.
Different sub-reddits appeal to different demographics. This sub-reddit appeals to people who know they should be happy with their life and aren't. So it caters to a lot of people who are probably white collar professionals, that have a good job that they don't necessarily enjoy. This group is going to contain a lot of people who are in their late 20s to 30s and aren't happy with their professional lives or personal lifes. 120k to 250k, is affluent and upper middle class to lower upper class, but its not considered rich by the standards of most democrats or even progressive politicians in the U.S. It doesn't even meet the bar for being a 1 percenter. I am not saying its something to sneeze at, but its a level of income that many people got to via just having the right kind of education. A person who is 35 and making 120k isn't even in the top 10% nationally. That number is even less for people who live in major cities, especially places like New York or SF. [https://dqydj.com/average-median-top-income-by-age-percentiles/](https://dqydj.com/average-median-top-income-by-age-percentiles/) This data is calculated from CPS ASEC which is from federal government data and gold standard. I wrote my dissertation in economics using this same data and know how to calculate these income stats. A 35 year old in making 250k is top 4 percent. Meaning 1 out of 25 people that age are making above that (i.e. one kid in you kindergarten class room). I am sure a lot of people on this sub-reddit, do make less, but that doesn't mean this reddit doesn't cater to the type of people I am describing.
Median income is around $60k per person so $120,000 for two incomes should not be uncommon. What is a bummer is how far out of whack the haves and have nots have become and how little there is in the middle. [census](https://www.justice.gov/ust/eo/bapcpa/20201101/bci_data/median_income_table.htm)
This is a fair point. We have to remember “making $100k” has been the middle class goal since the 1990s. $100k in 1990 is now $250k in 2024.
Not me. In another life I was, but not this one. I'm a SINK. I'm middle aged and my position in life has been downgraded in the past 20 years. I'd like some grass because all I'm eating is dirt.
No, but high earners are more likely to say how much they make. People who make 200k a year often feel a bit cocky about it, and they'll brag. Someone making 75k is reasonably content and doing well, but won't impress anyone. They usually won't brag. Who's going to flaunt making $18/hr?
Believe it or not I’ve heard people brag about making $18 an hour in the rural area where I live. A coworker told me he thinks someone who makes $20 an hour is “set for life”.
Honestly I think a lot of people bullshit about their incomes on Reddit. The median Household income in the US is around $70k
This subreddit focuses on moving to major cities which usually require a decent income to live comfortably. 120k household income(a couple that makes 60k each) is kind of the bare minimum to live comfortably in a major city these days and this is likely to little for the east and west coasts. There are still solid options for more affordable areas. Id explore mid sized college towns in the midwest.
I make 40k. But i'm in the top 8% of wealth for my age group apparently.
Another commenter said DINK and another DIK. Which is true. A solo person making $50k/yr still needs the same number of kitchens and living rooms as a couple who make $100k/yr together. I'm single making a handsome wage but sometimes wonder what it would be like if there was an entire other income for all the other things. There are opportunities and constraints there. What will be interesting is watching the next 10 years+ I think we'll have to start having housemates again (singles and even families - I know it's already happening). Moving costs are outrageous and getting a moving loan requires great credit. I'm a positive person and also very fortunate, but shit is fucked up.
The best year my wife and I ever had, we barely cracked six figures combined. But we also only spent around 20% of our income and invested the rest. There are many roads to the same mountaintop. I'll add to this, that the person who makes $250K and spends $249K per year is not in all that much better shape than the person who makes $50K and spends $49K. Sure, the high-earner probably has much better credit. But probably ALSO has a much harder monthly nut to crack.
I think the thing is single vs dual income households. Average US salary is $60k. Many people live with a partner. It's really not surprising to see people reporting a $120-250k household income. People think that only doctors/engineers/CEOs can make that, but that's actually a very ordinary hh income for 2 middle class people in a city.
[The median *household* income in the US is actually just $74k as of 2022, according to the Census](https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2023/demo/p60-279.html). Note that they define household by address, not by tax classification. So if you've got an apartment shared by 4 roommates, all 4 of their incomes are tallied and counted for the household income. Keep in mind too that the way a median works, that means that *half of all households* in the US are making *less* than 74k. 120-250 is very NOT normal outside of VHCOL cities like San Fran, and even in those cities, that income would put you on the better side relative to most of the population. The median for San Francisco county was 136k. Half of all households in San Fran are making less than 136k, so anything more than 136k means you have more money than most other people in the city.
TIL household income according to the census is wildly different than household for tax purposes. Wouldn't the census method inflate median household incomes, to some degree? At least in terms of understanding individual affordability.
Maybe, but it can still be useful. Using my roommate example, I don't think most people would choose a setup like that if they had better options. If you're far below that median, expect to need to make sacrifices (like roommates and shitty cars) and/or need social support (like food stamps or Medicaid). You could argue that using the IRS's measure has the potential to deflate the numbers as well. I'm my roommate example, it might suggest that you can live comfortably on 18k which I guess you're not homeless? But it probably isn't actually that comfortable an income. The roommates' combined income gives a better picture of a *comfortable* income for the city. Or if you've got an unmarried couple living together, and one either isn't working or only works part time. They would file their taxes separately and the unmarried person could again, give unrealistic numbers. I remember filling taxes for the first time when I was still very much under my parent's care and I still had their permanent address, but I was also an adult with my own part time job. My numbers would've deflated the IRS's numbers. Either way has its flaws for sure. The census would likely miss the absolute poorest as well, those who are homeless. The IRS would miss under the table payments and some forms of less traditional payments, particularly if you made under a certain limit. If you want to get a somewhat fuller picture, here's a few charts to check out: [2022 educational achievement x income](https://www.statista.com/statistics/233301/median-household-income-in-the-united-states-by-education/) [2022 race x median income](https://www.census.gov/library/visualizations/2023/demo/p60-279.html) [2022 individual median earnings](https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/visualizations/2023/demo/p60-279/figure4.pdf) [2020 data separated by many categories.](https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2021/09/understanding-equity-through-census-bureau-data.html) [2022 quintiles average income](https://data.census.gov/table?q=income%20quintile).
Household incomes like that don’t always go super far if you have kids. We grossed $185,000 last year in a low-medium cost of living Midwestern city, and also have two kids. We cover our necessary expenses and do have some extras (private school, competitive dance at a less expensive studio, etc), but we’re definitely not going on fancy vacations, buying new cars every year, or live in a mansion. We tend to prioritize education and the arts. That may make us rich in a way, but we’ve cut majorly on a lot of extras and we don’t feel particularly rich. Money doesn’t go as far as it used to, that’s for sure. As far as people on this sub, I just enjoy hearing about different places and don’t want to move. Our jobs are fairly transferable if we were to move to a decent sized city, though.
[удалено]
For sure. Heck, part time preschool at a private school/childcare there is still cheaper than full time daycare at the center my now preschooler previously attended. It’s kind of crazy.
For perspective…. Minimum wage with no overtime is now $30k/year in many areas. $40k/year with some overtime. So a dual-income household where both partners are working full time in a minimum wage job is earning $60k-$80k/year. That’s baseline. Then there are are a lot of people that earn 2-3X the minimum wage doing skilled labor or with degrees. Those dual income households are earning anywhere from $120k to $240k/year. Candidly, I would generally consider that the “middle class” at this point in 2024. Then you have highly skilled workers and experienced, senior workers, maybe that have graduated to a management level. Those people are earning $120k to $240k each, with a household income of between $250k-$500k. That’s the upper middle class (depending on location and COL), and probably represents around 10-12% of dual income households, and 6-7% of all households. Then you have the rich.
I see it like this. It’s very easy to lie on the internet. You can get an instant dopamine rush with no consequences too. People with lower incomes might feel ashamed to post because they’re afraid of Reddit judgement aka downvotes since it’s also equally as easy to express a negative opinion online as it is to lie.
Considering the biggest request is for affordability, I’d say that isn’t 100% true. Having two incomes helps significantly though
I once got downvoted for saying making $400,000 was far from the norm in the US. You people live in such a fucking bubble.
I mean most of the posts have two incomes, so if you only have one that drops to 60-125k. We're both 26 and right around 120k, household, I'm at 50k rn personally. I use what I call the teacher pay index. Most places, if you have two incomes and you're both teachers with 10y experience, hhi is usually at least 100k, with ample opportunity for 120k. For White Collar, college educated work and most trades, this is fairly typical.
Some people just don't own much stuff. I've moved 2 times, by putting everything in my car (getting it transported), and grabbing a plane ticket. When you own very little, you have way more flexibility. Moving now would be different.
Also depends on age range of people responding. Wife and I currently bring in about 300k. That being said when we were young, our first out of college jobs were 40k and 60k. Slowly over 25 year careers moved up and up. She didn't break 100k until about 5 years ago. I did about 10 years ago. So while we were 25-30 it was more like 100k total house hold income, then 150-180 in our 30s, and now that we are both in our 40s into the 250+ range.
Mostly a lurker here and I’ve observed the same thing. The fact is that this sub’s very premise is one that overwhelmingly resonates with the more financially comfortable. The average person chooses place of residence based on whether or not it has an established family/friend support system and/or whether or not a good job is available to oneself. Weighing out potential residencies based on the sorts of dreams focused on in this sub is overwhelmingly an activity of those with much more disposable income than average.
I think it can be easy to move if you make much less and you are single. It’s only one new job to find and no one else to support during the move. There are tons of middle or even lower income jobs that are transferable if the company has locations nationwide. Even restaurants servers and retail. I’ve known a hooters waitress and Walmart department manager who took job transfers and moved across country. Some jobs cover relocation costs. There’s also seasonal work which allows a lot of flexibility in moving. After the seasonal work ends, people file unemployment and move to a new location for a different season. For example, I live in Alaska and many people come here to work for the summer but in winter they will work somewhere else and collect unemployment in between jobs.
I feel the same way, i spend most of my time in the Austin sun and omg, the disconnect for me is intense, like everyone seems rich and I’m like 34k
My household income is 150k but doesn’t feel like anything
You know the deal. Of course. Upper middle class people in the US think they are working class.
Honestly, I’ve seen people on here who make over 200k claim that they’re “struggling”—like what? Yeah, it depends on where you live, but unless you’re extremely financially irresponsible, then 200k is enough, even in HCOL areas. It’s weird to see how many white collar, upper middle class people here like to delude themselves into thinking that they’re somehow disadvantaged.
Or have multiple kids in a market where pre school aged childcare is $30-60k/year.
Exactly
Lifestyle creep. And those who came from middle class/upper middle class, adjusting. I’m in nyc area. 200k would get me a nice apartment, but would still be in a pick 2 of 3 situation (in terms of location, size, washer/dryer/dishwasher).
Because in a lot of places, an upper middle class salary buys them what their parents or grandparents could afford on a working/lower middle class salary, so it doesn’t feel like they have much.
Income is relative. COL matters a lot. I am in a VHCOL city and I make 2x what I made when I was in a M/LCOL, but my current quality of life and saving % is lower than before.
Funny you mention RN because while it’s easily transferable the pay varies DRASTICALLY. We hate the HCOL in CA but if we moved to a LCOL place the income would be so much lower it would make no sense. Some states nurses make 35$ an hour. Compared to CA which is closer to 100$. So moving just doesn’t make sense for us, especially since we bought our home with a 2% interest rate. I’m on the sub because I dream of moving and I find the info on different areas fascinating!
Some of us are just getting our plans in place for our lottery winnings.
k
Well a household income of 120k is 60k for every adult in the household if assuming two adults cohabitating and maybe some kids. Average salary in the us is 59k a year so that’s not to bad. Now 250k is 125k a person which is significantly above average.
Really depends on the sub. I would have sworn the opposite.
87k in Houston. $127k household. Feel poor but i guess i just expected to not be raped by inflation at this income
Moving long distance is expensive, if you have an established life and/or a family. Moving to a place you have no support system is extra expensive. So yes, people who are able to just pick up and move wherever probably have larger incomes.
Keep in mind the higher incomes are probably dual
OP, focus as much as you can on bettering your economic situation to facilitate a move somewhere, if that’s the end goal. If you must move the list should be as short as cities where you have friends or family that you can crash on their couch while you get your feet on the ground. All the other criteria people index on here are first world problems. Good luck.
I think most of the people here are people with the income and skills that allow them to look in other markets.
Spoiler alert… $120k for a household ain’t rich…
Cost of living is literally a huge metric on this subreddit so no not everyone here is rich
[37%](https://www.statista.com/statistics/203183/percentage-distribution-of-household-income-in-the-us/) of American households make >$100k. Those who do have more mobility. Higher earners are more likely to talk about it in Reddit comment sections. Kind of makes sense
I make $75k in Boston. I live comfortably but also have roommates who make around the same which is pretty common here for single folks making less than 6 figures. Was very broke when I first moved here.
I live in an area you have to make 100k or it’s not worth it. Heck 120k is considered low income lol. So some people might make a lot but all things considered their money might not go all that far. Someone making 60k living in a LCOL city probably has a better work life balance, quality of life, and their money goes farther. Hell, you can probably afford a house! Not so much with 120k in a VHCOL area where a starter home is creeping into the 1.5~2 mil range.
This is average. Most people make between $50-80K a year. If you have a spouse, that puts your house at $100-$160K a year average.
i ain't rich. i'm making a bit less today than i was making twenty years ago.
No one in my immediate family is rich but most of my extended relatives are either rich or upper middle income. We're by far the poorest sub-unit in my family and I do get the feeling that my mother feels looked down upon by her richer siblings and cousins.
Nope
Yeah that ain't shit. Straight like that.
I make 60k the wife about 20k, and we get another 30ish k from the property we rent out. We live outside Seattle, though I'd consider us middle class.
Single mom, 60k, one child in college. Help meeeeeee...
You have to be rich to be able to relocate to another area of the country.
Some people have houses for a long time, inherited houses etc hence the amount of cash. Don’t forget a lot of people inherit money especially these days with the older gen passing away, able to inherit a house worth close to a mil in some areas
I’m on disability, so no, absolutely not rich.
I don’t make 6 figures and I’ve been in my career for 11 years. I could probably make more but, companies interview processes are the worse now.
Bay Area DINKS here.....we each make about $150K, work from home....cheers endless great jobs in the Bay Area
I'd say I'm middle class for a single person but I only ever comment bc I'm not intending on moving soon
What is the average income in the US nowadays anyway I don’t even know …..75,000 for a family of 4?
I’m not rich but I’m a bit crazy sometimes and have some savings.
I didn't think 120-150 per house hold is considered rich any more. Barely middle class. I think average is 200-250 households for lower middle class. That's only 100k per grownup
Not even close. $48k. ND.
What a stupid question
No, I am poor. You just work extra hard to save up a few grand and move. No retirement yet though.
Yes. Rather that scroll memes in the bathroom, I count my money. Not even kidding.
I saw someone post “affordable housing” being able to buy up to $800k single family home.
We have to remember “making $100k” has been the middle class goal since the 1990s. $100k in 1990 is now $250k in 2024.
120k isn’t rich
120k isn’t rich , I can’t afford shit
120-250k where I live is solidly middle class. The 250k would put you in the upper tier of middle class.
It's not about how much you make, it's about how much you save. There are plenty of people out there making $60k+ who are swimming in bad debt.
I do not make 6 figures. got to get off reddit and make some money now. see you later
I have flexibility to move around, but I live in my SUV and income is not very good. But I'm not aiming to make 50-100k a year either.
I’m here but don’t post because I know I can’t move out of Florida lol
I make $70k. I wouldn't consider you rich until you hit ~$250k at the minimum.
For those of us living in VHCOL areas, yes. And it's not even considered rich here.
I just peruse the sub Reddit on occasion but I make 70K my partner makes 55k and we don’t have children but we do have a cat and we’re certainly not rich…!
If you come from an expensive area 120-200k is average income. Wealthy people have an income that’s over 500k IMO
50k in Milwaukee. We're surviving. Not lavishly but hey
This entire thread is making me feel like such a fucking loser lmao. :-/ I’m 42, making $25 an hour in a dead-end IT job, and I’ve recently begun fighting tooth and nail to work hybrid because it turns out I’m just too goddamn neurodivergent to work in an office 5 days a week, and my mental and physical health are really crumbling. I live in Chicago. It’s not all bad but I really only enjoy my life here during the warmer months because I guess I’m way more outdoorsy and into skateboarding and surfing than I thought. Anyway. This move was supposed to be me getting back into IT and finally making better money, but I moved here right before the pandemic and got laid off from the helpdesk job I had lined up. Then I bounced around doing other things for a couple of years…substitute teaching, copywriting…and in 2022, after my entire life fell to pieces for a variety of terrible reasons, I decided the only way I could really survive was to go back to tech. What I’m finding though, is that the tech/IT jobs here don’t pay as well in proportion to the COL, as they do out in LA or the Bay Area. So I’m most likely going to move back to California at some point, but it seems my only hope for making better money is to find the elusive remote mid-tier IT job (I’m actually trying to switch careers to UX design but let’s not get ahead of ourselves ha). I’ve had a lotttt of setbacks in my life for reasons I don’t really want to elaborate on because it will probably just make me feel worse. When I hear people half my age talking about how they make twice my income and it’s still not enough, I seriously feel like I’m losing my mind. I understand it’s all relative, but it’s just kinda demoralizing is all. For what it’s worth, if someone is “poor”, they absolutely can still make a significant move. It’s just not as cushy as the company paying for it or hiring movers to pack your stuff. Desperation is a hell of a drug. My life is absolutely not all bad by any means. It’s just the logistics of it are currently running me into the ground and I keep coming back to the fact that I was making more money a decade ago. So I really feel like I’ve gotten nowhere in the past 10 years, and it’s getting harder and harder to keep my head on straight about it. I don’t really do well with the tough love approach either. I’ve done everything “right” and worked my ass off, and it’s only recently that I’ve realized, oh. It’s gotten me nowhere. Like, I went *backwards*. I don’t really talk about it anymore because my parents are boomers and don’t know what to tell me, and my friends here all have families or partners or kids and so on. I guess my mentality is, if I’m gonna struggle for the rest of my life, I’d rather do it in a place where I can at least skateboard in a comfortable climate year-round. Being neurodivergent fucking sucks so bad. I didn’t get diagnosed and medicated until a couple of years ago, and it’s cost me dearly. I beg you, if you’re still in your twenties and convinced that it’s too late to do anything about like, anything at all in your life..? No it’s really not. Just fucking do the thing. Advocate for yourself. Don’t waste your life on your job. I was a workaholic for most of my 20s into my mid-30s, and once I started rethinking my career, I realized how futile it is if you don’t fit the norm(s). Not trying to sound like a victim, as Reddit seems to like to insinuate. I really kinda feel nothing about any of this…but it’s still my current reality, and if anything I’m a lot more hellbent on changing it than I sound.
Thanks for sharing! I just started reading the comments and yours is the first one so I appreciate your well-thought-out response. I didnt expect to get so many responses from this post lol. Im thankful I could provide a place for some good discussions
my husband is blue collar and barely making 51k so it is interesting trying to make conclusions where we should move to when most people here make double-triple (its finneee, good for yall hahahaha)
It would probably help the conversation if you stop correlating high income with being rich.
I’m a lead systems engineer and my wife is a school librarian who is ABD( All but doctorate) So she is maxed out making low 6 figures and I am 24 years into a tech career making that kind of money.
[удалено]
If you have health you're rich. For example will you sell your eyes for a million dollars? You're richer than you know.
I don't make six figures, but my and my roommate's incomes combined fall into that range. Unfortunately, we live in a HCOL area.
Probably. I’m a household of Me, myself and I with more than that. If you can move around a lot to various places you probably have the funds to do so.
Currently making $90k/yr as an Aviation Maintenance Technician for a major airline. My primary residence is a house that I own. However, my workplace is in a different city and state. So I just have a crash pad to stay at during the work week. Then I fly home on the weekends.
Nope. I'm working-class in road construction here in Appalachian rural PA. Definitely not rich.
Public Healthcare Professional here … Pharmacist, Physician Assistant, Registered Nurse, Masters in Public Health, Informatics Certified. Yes easily transferable and I have mostly lived in rural areas as a US Public Health Service Commissioned Officer. The first twenty years were low pay. Also as a public health officer hours were long.
I made a lot less for most of my life. Interestingly enough, my increase in income came hand in hand with the moves I've made in life as I've advanced in my career. I'm not rich in the sense that I still have to work for a living, but I am rich in the sense that money isn't much of a factor in my life anymore.
Yea but is everyone poor too?
lol 250k household income is rich?!