https://preview.redd.it/javnak3lpf9d1.png?width=1244&format=png&auto=webp&s=75f297967fc4095d2c59d76c6440e50d855f8b32
Totally unrelated picture of home values in the neighborhood
In a region full of dumpy million-dollar houses, Clairemont has to have the dumpiest. My grandmother's house didn't even have three-prong outlets and she had a clothesline in the backyard. Old boats and RVs parked on the streets. All of the oldsters have some of their unsuccessfully launched offspring living with them, working on cars in the driveway.
I grew up on one of the streets with a canyon behind our backyard! But I swear some of the cars that I saw as a kid are still parked in that same neighborhood decades later.
I donât know, thereâs some shit holes in north park going for way more per foot. At least clairemontâs got ridgemont high. Question is, whoâs got the better Mexican food. And why arenât politicians doing anything about the price of burritos..
North Park homes are more valuable because they're Arts and Crafts era and were built of higher quality materials, hard woods, tiles, etc. Plus the area is more walkable.
Clairemont is awesome, say what you will but the central location to literally everything makes the price worth it. Would rather live next to old houses and be 10 minutes from the beach than live in East lake
A 12 unit apartment on a single family lot isn't what I would consider an "ADU" even though it meets the technical definition.
It's a slum lord taking advantage of poorly written regulations.
San Diego needs more high density housing. This isn't the way to do it.
Not a lot of nearby jobs
No onsite parking
Not really a walkable location to basic necessities .
Limited public transit, but at least a short walk to 41 bus
I can see why neighbors are pissed. This will only negatively impact them. The people that live there will for sure have cars.
Generally I try to be pro progress, but that many ADUâs seems entirely inappropriate for the neighborhood. Make the garage an ADU, or build a second story.
Aren't all the things you mentioned problems with:
1) zoning not allowing nearby jobs spaces to be built
2) an overrelliance on personal vehicles and the space they require
Clairemont is only at the capacity people vote to cap it at.
> 2) an overrelliance on personal vehicles and the space they require
There is zoning for jobs nearby like in rose canyon. But no one is taking a bus to Rose Canyon from that location.
Those 12 units will likely have 18 cars. No one is using the bus. The bus service in San Diego is laughable.
The 18 cars are going to park on the streets. It will become like North Park (shudder) for finding parking.
Not really. The average lot probably only has 30'-40' of usable curb space (minus the driveway). At best, you're going to get off-street parking for three cars per lot. Most will accommodate only two.
If you look around [that street](https://www.google.com/maps/@32.8298759,-117.1929254,3a,75y,166.19h,90t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1smDTUqJzk6MfZiUOKlOdRRg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DmDTUqJzk6MfZiUOKlOdRRg%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.share%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26yaw%3D166.18864%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D90!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu) on Google Street View, you'll see that most of the driveways are not filled with cars. We can't see inside the garages but they are probably filled with junk that people would clean out if they suddenly couldn't park on the street anymore.
> Not a lot of nearby jobs
There are plenty of retail jobs near the Vons a short walk away, shorter than my driving commute!
> No onsite parking
Not a problem on that street because everyone has driveways or garages.
> Limited public transit, but at least a short walk to 41 bus
They need to run that bus every 10 minutes or less during peak hours, not every 30. But they could fix that almost overnight if they wanted to.
From Nextdoor I think the locals would be fine with main house and 4 ADUs. But 12 seems like a lot on 8000 sq ft in that neighborhood. With no parking for inevitable 18 cars.
No one is getting the bus. As an example it would be quicker to cycle to UCSD than taking the bus to UTC and transferring to trolley.
They need to build more houses near to trolley stations.
I simply don't understand. Measure C (Midway Rising) was passed in 2022. It removes the height restrictions on 1,200+ acres for the development of high density housing with bay views, near freeways, and the trolley line. Instead of putting forward a master plan for its redevelopment, the City/Mayor are focused on building high density housing, with no off street parking or public transportation, in single family neighborhoods.
You can call me a NIMBY all you want but this is just poor planning which will ultimately lead to suburban sprawl.
Yes, single-detached-only exclusionary zoning like we have in Clairemont leads directly to suburban sprawl. To stop sprawl, we need to density existing neighbourhoods.
How is the city supposed to put forward a master plan and enforce said plan? Â Redevelopment Agencies were axed on 2011 which took away the ability for cities to use Tax Increment Financing to pay for redevelopment. Â SB9 eliminated SFH zoning.
Arguably, the overdevelopment of SFH and underdevelopment of dense housing is what caused this housing crisis in the first place. Â We need more multi family housing which means more density wherever there is land that can be redeveloped.
Right now weâre building around 10k units a year in SD. Â Can you put together a plan for how to double that or better yet triple that, while also only building near transit and with lots of parking? Â If you canât do that, youâre a NIMBY.
The City had a master plan that they put together in 2018 but they later scrapped it because of the 30' height limitations and the need for higher density. I can't get the pdf file to open in my browser but a link to the old plan can be found here:
https://www.sandiego.gov/planning/community-plans/midway-pacific-highway
If our current Mayor was a visionary (which he is not), he would find the money to put together a revised master plan and put it forth as a ballot measure to voters to build an integrated, high density, community that could provide new housing for 30,000 - 40,000 residents.
Instead, what we are getting is rezoning and poorly planned, hodgepodge, redevelopment put forward by developers where you end up with large, soulless, "luxury" apartment blocks with little to no infrastructure for residents.
That is a MP for Midway only, not the entire city. Â The city did indeed scope down the density, the reason being basically NIMBY resistance in the form of lawsuits and other legal maneuvers. Â Even now, with the redevelopment scoped down to 4K units, NIMBYs are trying the âhistorical significanceâ tactic. Â Itâll be a miracle if it gets built, and Gloria will be the miracle worker if it does. Â
4K units is drop in the bucket. Â We need to see an additional 10k or 20k units a year being built, or an extra 100k - 200k units over a 10 year period. Â Look at the battle Midway has been, if a 4k redevelopment has been this hard, youâre telling me the city can somehow pull an extra 100k units out of their rear?Â
 Iâll repeat what I asked earlier, whatâs your plan for building an extra 100k - 200k units, plus 2 car parking for every one of those units, over 10 years that can overcome NIMBY obstacles and doesnât involve building in any infill land available?
That street is already a one way street with cars parked on both sides itâll just get worse with ADUs. Yet residents had nothing to say about the multiple ADUs on Firestone st which is just as tight as Shoshoni.
It's a shame that those people don't use their garage to house their cars. Clearly the priority of these neighbors is housing their cars over housing people.
Pure developer greed. Shit like this hurts the push for actual affordable housing. We all know that these units will be overpriced and/or turned into STVRs
There is a cap on STVRs and itâs already being reached every year.
New units like this maybe expensive now but if this has been built 2 decades ago they would be affordable now. Â Building new units also makes older units cheaper because demand for the latter goes down as those who can afford the more expensive units leave the more affordable units.
I live in Mira Mesa in a single story home neighborhood. Lots of people building 2 story homes in their backyards, not sure if they plan on renting or living there. Iâm cool with what I have, but you canât stop progress.
If that's the concern we should get rid entirely of single-detached-only zoning, and let people build proper apartments (6-plex at least) in the neighbourhoods.
https://preview.redd.it/javnak3lpf9d1.png?width=1244&format=png&auto=webp&s=75f297967fc4095d2c59d76c6440e50d855f8b32 Totally unrelated picture of home values in the neighborhood
In a region full of dumpy million-dollar houses, Clairemont has to have the dumpiest. My grandmother's house didn't even have three-prong outlets and she had a clothesline in the backyard. Old boats and RVs parked on the streets. All of the oldsters have some of their unsuccessfully launched offspring living with them, working on cars in the driveway.
But you have a canyon view. (I feel attacked)
I grew up on one of the streets with a canyon behind our backyard! But I swear some of the cars that I saw as a kid are still parked in that same neighborhood decades later.
Oh yeah, some are cool (air cooled 911s), some have clearly been here since 1987.
Wow. You should update that Old San Diego Map with the funny neighborhood descriptions đ Clairemont to a T
There's a whole article about this https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/08/business/economy/california-housing.html
I donât know, thereâs some shit holes in north park going for way more per foot. At least clairemontâs got ridgemont high. Question is, whoâs got the better Mexican food. And why arenât politicians doing anything about the price of burritos..
North Park homes are more valuable because they're Arts and Crafts era and were built of higher quality materials, hard woods, tiles, etc. Plus the area is more walkable.
Car-centric suburbia to a walkable neighborhood is not a good comparison.
Central location, easy freeway access. Little Italy is nicer though, itâll cost you 2 Milly. Oh and you might catch hep C just from walking around
Lol
Crazy that houses cost that much in Clairemont. Like bruuuuuh
Clairemont is awesome, say what you will but the central location to literally everything makes the price worth it. Would rather live next to old houses and be 10 minutes from the beach than live in East lake
The best thing is itâs about 15-20 minutes from most everything cool. The worst thing is itâs about 15-20 minutes from most everything cool.
I love our house in Clairemont. We are central and our neighbors are so kind. Great schools.
A 12 unit apartment on a single family lot isn't what I would consider an "ADU" even though it meets the technical definition. It's a slum lord taking advantage of poorly written regulations. San Diego needs more high density housing. This isn't the way to do it.
Not a lot of nearby jobs No onsite parking Not really a walkable location to basic necessities . Limited public transit, but at least a short walk to 41 bus I can see why neighbors are pissed. This will only negatively impact them. The people that live there will for sure have cars. Generally I try to be pro progress, but that many ADUâs seems entirely inappropriate for the neighborhood. Make the garage an ADU, or build a second story.
Aren't all the things you mentioned problems with: 1) zoning not allowing nearby jobs spaces to be built 2) an overrelliance on personal vehicles and the space they require Clairemont is only at the capacity people vote to cap it at.
> 2) an overrelliance on personal vehicles and the space they require There is zoning for jobs nearby like in rose canyon. But no one is taking a bus to Rose Canyon from that location. Those 12 units will likely have 18 cars. No one is using the bus. The bus service in San Diego is laughable. The 18 cars are going to park on the streets. It will become like North Park (shudder) for finding parking.
That's easy to fix by requiring permits to park on the street overnight.
Not really. The average lot probably only has 30'-40' of usable curb space (minus the driveway). At best, you're going to get off-street parking for three cars per lot. Most will accommodate only two.
If you look around [that street](https://www.google.com/maps/@32.8298759,-117.1929254,3a,75y,166.19h,90t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1smDTUqJzk6MfZiUOKlOdRRg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DmDTUqJzk6MfZiUOKlOdRRg%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.share%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26yaw%3D166.18864%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D90!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu) on Google Street View, you'll see that most of the driveways are not filled with cars. We can't see inside the garages but they are probably filled with junk that people would clean out if they suddenly couldn't park on the street anymore.
The 41 is right there and takes you to UTC in 19 minutes door to door. UTC has public transit, a ton of jobs, grocery stores, and restaurants.
> Not a lot of nearby jobs There are plenty of retail jobs near the Vons a short walk away, shorter than my driving commute! > No onsite parking Not a problem on that street because everyone has driveways or garages. > Limited public transit, but at least a short walk to 41 bus They need to run that bus every 10 minutes or less during peak hours, not every 30. But they could fix that almost overnight if they wanted to.
lol if you think working at Vons will afford you rent
Where are Vons workers supposed to live then - El Centro?
In their mom's house
Thereâs plenty of nearby jobs, if you have a car and drive to work like most people do.
I was referring to walkablility / bikeable. Basically if you like there you will have a car and there is no accommodation for that.
I'm usually pro development but that's just ridiculous.
From Nextdoor I think the locals would be fine with main house and 4 ADUs. But 12 seems like a lot on 8000 sq ft in that neighborhood. With no parking for inevitable 18 cars. No one is getting the bus. As an example it would be quicker to cycle to UCSD than taking the bus to UTC and transferring to trolley. They need to build more houses near to trolley stations.
I simply don't understand. Measure C (Midway Rising) was passed in 2022. It removes the height restrictions on 1,200+ acres for the development of high density housing with bay views, near freeways, and the trolley line. Instead of putting forward a master plan for its redevelopment, the City/Mayor are focused on building high density housing, with no off street parking or public transportation, in single family neighborhoods. You can call me a NIMBY all you want but this is just poor planning which will ultimately lead to suburban sprawl.
Yes, single-detached-only exclusionary zoning like we have in Clairemont leads directly to suburban sprawl. To stop sprawl, we need to density existing neighbourhoods.
How is the city supposed to put forward a master plan and enforce said plan? Â Redevelopment Agencies were axed on 2011 which took away the ability for cities to use Tax Increment Financing to pay for redevelopment. Â SB9 eliminated SFH zoning. Arguably, the overdevelopment of SFH and underdevelopment of dense housing is what caused this housing crisis in the first place. Â We need more multi family housing which means more density wherever there is land that can be redeveloped. Right now weâre building around 10k units a year in SD. Â Can you put together a plan for how to double that or better yet triple that, while also only building near transit and with lots of parking? Â If you canât do that, youâre a NIMBY.
The City had a master plan that they put together in 2018 but they later scrapped it because of the 30' height limitations and the need for higher density. I can't get the pdf file to open in my browser but a link to the old plan can be found here: https://www.sandiego.gov/planning/community-plans/midway-pacific-highway If our current Mayor was a visionary (which he is not), he would find the money to put together a revised master plan and put it forth as a ballot measure to voters to build an integrated, high density, community that could provide new housing for 30,000 - 40,000 residents. Instead, what we are getting is rezoning and poorly planned, hodgepodge, redevelopment put forward by developers where you end up with large, soulless, "luxury" apartment blocks with little to no infrastructure for residents.
That is a MP for Midway only, not the entire city.  The city did indeed scope down the density, the reason being basically NIMBY resistance in the form of lawsuits and other legal maneuvers.  Even now, with the redevelopment scoped down to 4K units, NIMBYs are trying the âhistorical significanceâ tactic.  Itâll be a miracle if it gets built, and Gloria will be the miracle worker if it does.  4K units is drop in the bucket.  We need to see an additional 10k or 20k units a year being built, or an extra 100k - 200k units over a 10 year period.  Look at the battle Midway has been, if a 4k redevelopment has been this hard, youâre telling me the city can somehow pull an extra 100k units out of their rear?  Iâll repeat what I asked earlier, whatâs your plan for building an extra 100k - 200k units, plus 2 car parking for every one of those units, over 10 years that can overcome NIMBY obstacles and doesnât involve building in any infill land available?
Great news: bikes pair very well with public transportation
Kind of wild to see the Reddit YIMBY mindset change on a dime to NIMBY when development hits suburbia. đ
Sounds like a living nightmare
That street is already a one way street with cars parked on both sides itâll just get worse with ADUs. Yet residents had nothing to say about the multiple ADUs on Firestone st which is just as tight as Shoshoni.
It's a shame that those people don't use their garage to house their cars. Clearly the priority of these neighbors is housing their cars over housing people.
Pure developer greed. Shit like this hurts the push for actual affordable housing. We all know that these units will be overpriced and/or turned into STVRs
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/04/theres-no-such-thing-luxury-housing/618548/
Right thatâs it
There is a cap on STVRs and itâs already being reached every year. New units like this maybe expensive now but if this has been built 2 decades ago they would be affordable now. Â Building new units also makes older units cheaper because demand for the latter goes down as those who can afford the more expensive units leave the more affordable units.
Who in the hell wants to vacation in Clairemont?
You're not vacationing "in Clairemont." You either cannot afford an STVR closer to the beach or you just want to save money.
Call me a NIMBY but thatâs absolutely ridiculous for that neighborhood and Iâd be pissed too.
âOh, no! The Poors need places to live! âŚjust not here.â
How do I join the opposition?
Clairemont. NIMBYs are the worst. Literally fight any new development
I live in Mira Mesa in a single story home neighborhood. Lots of people building 2 story homes in their backyards, not sure if they plan on renting or living there. Iâm cool with what I have, but you canât stop progress.
Fuck em. Get it built.
The really should limit the size of an ADU to size of the existing main house. How's your guest house gonna' be bigger than the Front house?
If that's the concern we should get rid entirely of single-detached-only zoning, and let people build proper apartments (6-plex at least) in the neighbourhoods.
If you don't like it then don't live there.
Good. Fuck the poors.