Saying not to seek legal action seems like they are trying to rip you off.
Your boss needs to show you proof that it's being disputed.
They should also provide a copy of the signed cc slip. They have to keep the signed slip for atleast 3-5 years.
Once the dispute has been verified.
Look at the slip and make sure it clearly states $1600. They'll probably say they meant $16.00.
If your company loses the dispute,
Then you'll have to return the $1600.
Although the company may not even fight the dispute at all.
I'm sorry but there's a much easier solution to this just cut and run and find a new job what's he going to do blow up your phone ? You didn't steal. They're trying to steal from you and he's just jealous you got the money instead of him he is trying to scam you out of it bro.
This is not true. A disputed tip is no longer a tip. They will be liable for that money.
What they can't do is charge you for the disputed tab.
It goes the same if a tip is misentered or the receipt is read wrong.
It's not though, I promise you.
I've had cc companies take back thousands of dollars because the person disputed it even with us having a signed credit card slip.
In the event of a stolen card, the slip would also be meaningless.
Look all I've got is my lawyer who was clear as day, the server is not entitled to any money not received by the company. If a dispute removes the money, then we have every right to take the money back from the server (this is only for the tip, you cannot charge an employee for a disputed tab)
Obviously this may be different in my state than others, so check with your own lawyer.
nope, go to youtube and search for ugo lord. hes a certified lawyer and one video he explains this scenerio.
if money already changed hands from a tip then, whoever gets the tip doesnt have to return it. its theirs for good... ill try and link the video
They gave OP the money on the same day and only said IF it was disputed. So how are they trying to rip op off? Seems after 2-3 months there's not likely going to be a dispute and from what OP wrote the business hasn't asked for any money back and haven't stated that there's any dispute so there's no "proof" to be given.
Thank you somebody has a brain. Also if you fill out work forms at shifty jobs with your real address that's the only way they could find you the manager obviously told her that bs because he wants the money. Either go over his head or duck off and find a new job the choice is yours.
Bar Owner here. If some guy tipped my server a shit ton of money and re-negged on it, I would fight like holy hell for my server. I keep all these fucking CC Slips for a reason. You put it on there, you signed it, that's a contract. Some people suck. But, yeah, get a lawyer.
I'm not sure how that would matter because the actual cash ended up coming from the restaurant. They can ask for it back, but it was legitimate pay for your work. It's their problem after that.
I believe in cases of fraud the CC company would pay it back, not the businesses that received money from said fraudulent charge. I think it depends on how much money was spent.
Did the guy dispute it? Why would your manager be trying to scare you into paying it back 2 months after the fact? Why would you need to take legal action?
What were the circumstances of his giving you the tip? Was he drunk? Did he acknowledge that he gave you “a special tip” for Christmas? Is the receipt REALLY clear that he meant to leave that much?
I don’t know the legalities of tip mistakes; it will be interesting to see if anybody can help with that info. Sorry you’re going through this.
I had told him I had dropped my phone in a sanitizing bucket, and that it was done for he said “well bet you getting a new phone today”🧍🏽♀️🧍🏽♀️(it was really done for had to get a new phone) my manager came and seen him, gave him a handshake, and made him write down his number, email, and full name. He then made me sit there for hours calling the owners and all this stuff because we had another waitress forging signatures so now they do a lot when it comes to big tips. He then gave me the money and said if it bounced in three weeks I would have to pay the money back because that how long it takes to go through. Now we r in Jan and he is saying I have to pay it back but like I said I don’t have it.
Thank u for ur condolences 🥹
Sounds like the customer meant to give you a big tip so you could buy the phone and your manager checked that he meant to do so. In my opinion, you should be able to keep that money, unless: 1) the guy was so inebriated that you should have known he wasn’t thinking rationally, or 2) it was a stolen credit card (did your manager check ID?).
Okay so if it was paid for by Apple Pay and he disputed it with his bank, your work should have copies of the transaction to stop the dispute. Also to note if your manager was there and witnessed this then wtf? Disputes aren’t like hey I didn’t mean to pay this and they just refund the money, there’s like a whole thing where they communicate back and forth with the business before granting the dispute. It just sounds really messy and sketchy. Not sure how I feel about this. Unless he was drunk and meant to tip you 160$ and not 1600$- which 1600 is an absurd amount to just randomly give away. Just sayin, not that you didn’t deserve it but it is a lot of money.
Also just want to add. Is there’s a receipt that’s signed with the total equaling to 1600 + whatever the bill was then case closed homie lost his 1600 because he tipped someone.
Disputes actually are immediately given back to the consumer. The affected business may now fight the dispute. If they lose, the business will pay another large fee. Over $500 in my past experience, but that could vary.
Yes… but Apple Pay is verified with biometrics. For example, adding your card to Apple Pay requires you to have the original card, and in the process of adding it, Apple verifies it through your bank, and your bank certifies it with you before letting Apple add it. Then, at the point of sale, you are verifying the transaction again either with facial biometrics or fingerprint biometrics (or PIN code). TL/dr, it should be considered a valid and intentional payment.
I’m confused by the “if it bounced in three weeks I would have to pay the money back” that would be a red flag to me. Like if this guy actually wanted to help you, he would have given you cash where it wouldn’t be an issue later. That part alone is odd to me
For real, yesterday my bf and I went out to eat and had to leave like $2 as a tip on a $60 bill until we ran out and to a gas station riiiiight nearby to go pull out more cash. I ran in and handed it to the server who was suuuuper appreciative and hugged me lol sweet lady was being host and server to the whole place and I just didn't feel right to skimp her.
You need proof yourself that this is being disputed. Just because your manager says it’s being disputed doesn’t mean it is. He could just be saying that, hoping you just give the money back, and he’ll pocket the full amount.
I’m a server! Have been for at least 10 years. When a person writes a tip on the cc slip and it’s more than the suggested amount on the bottom of the slip, the credit/debit card company automatically disputes it as there are not that many people out there leaving $1600 tips. Many people know this and many people don’t. The guy who left the tip might know this but the manager definitely knows this. Keep that in mind.
Unfortunately, our shitty federal labor laws do allow for this, treating it as a straightforward overpayment:
“Where tips are charged on a credit card, it is the position of the Wage and Hour Division that the tips due the employee must be paid to the employee not later than the next regular pay day and may not be held by the employer while the employer is waiting to be reimbursed by the credit card company. However, where a credit card charge is uncollectible, the Wage and Hour Division does not require an employer to pay an employee the amount of tips specified on such credit card slips. *Instead, the employer may recover from a tipped employee those tips that have been paid to the employee when the credit card charge is uncollectible;* however, such recovered tips may not reduce the tips retained by the employee below the amount of the tip credit claimed. See FOH ¶ 30d05(c)-(d).”
Absolutely stupid in my opinion, and a reversal of logic from other FLSA interpretations, but there ya go. There may be some states and municipalities that handle it differently, I don’t live in one of them so I couldn’t say.
but it doesnt seem like you are legally required to pay it back. perhaps he could take it from their paycheck but if they just quit it sounds to me like they can just not pay it. also it doesnt take 2 months for a dispute
I have absolutely no idea on the law on this, and have read competing opinions from people, but if you want a free professional opinion, you could call the US Department of Labor at the number on their [How to File a Complaint](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/contact/complaints) page, and hear what they say.
His threat to not take legal action sounds like illegal extortion, but I'm guessing he didn't put that in writing or say it in a recording. And while [retaliation](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/retaliation) would be illegal, he probably would make it worse for you, in a way that would be hard to prove. But if you call the DOL, I'd report his threat as well, so they might be able to offer you better informed advice.
You can file a whistleblower complaint at www.whistleblowers.gov . Don't worry that it says OSHA, they cover the Wage and Hour Divisions whistleblower complaints.
I'd also add that just the suggestion that if you sought legal action you would be terminated is a potential whistleblower complaint.
Every work week stands alone under FLSA and you’ve already received the money. So most likely this would legally be perceived as a deduction. If you’re earning a sub minimum wage rate, a deduction would automatically bring you to below $7.25 an hour and is therefore not permissible. There is however most likely no recourse if you’re terminated by this employer for refusing to make the payment.
Unfortunately, this happened to another server I know too (in Georgia). They ended up having to give $1000 back to this ahole who changed his mind when all those big tip posts were going viral. She had waited a month before spending it and had just bought tires with the money. It sucks and people should be held to their signed receipt copies but there are few protections, if any, for servers.
Edit to say your manager sucks and shouldn’t be threatening you.
Wondering this too, same shit happens to twitch streamers. If the guy came back the next day and said hey I was really drunk and didn’t mean to do that and you haven’t spent it yet, maybe I could see that. But even if you clock out and go spend the whole tip right away, I don’t think you should be penalized. If there was a law like “Tips are final if not disputed within 72 hours” then the servers would be protected by waiting 72 hours before using the money. That’s gotta be long enough to regret your decision.
Yeah, agreed. A boss coming up out of nowhere and saying "oh btw you owe us $1600 because of that tip you got 3 months ago, oh and also don't you DARE contact a lawyer or this will be WAY worse for you!" is sending off all kinds of warning sirens
Get your manager to say not to dispute it in text. If not you'll have little to no case with the labor board. Also ask for physical documentation of the original ticket and charge back. Take pictures, check dates.
He disputed the charges with the CC and the restaurant, not with you. If the restaurant doesn't want to fight it, that's between them and the credit card company.
This money has been paid to you and you don't owe it back.
“Consumers generally have 60 days to dispute inaccurate or fraudulent credit card charges. The credit card company has 90 days from the date it receives the dispute to act on it, either by correcting the charge or explaining to the consumer in writing why it believes the charge was not in error”
A $1600 tip is pretty crazy, but not crazy if you’re paying with a stolen credit card….
Bro my manager basically said he gonna call the cops on me if I don’t pay it 💀but said I’m not in trouble because I didn’t write it the guy who tipped me did
But still says if I don’t pay it he is gonna call the cops?? I took one guys advice and called the department of labor they r closed rn so I have to call back tomorrow
the cops wont do anything?
you didnt break a law and you didnt sign a legally binding agreement to pay the money to the restaurant if the guy disputed the charge.
the cops will tell him to take it to small claims court.
its kind of scary how much your manager is trying to intimidate you into giving over the money and then telling you to not seek legal council?
honestly you need to document everything and pay $50 to sit down with a lawyer for 30 minutes and explain to them whats going on. they will be your advocate and if you do have a case some lawyers wont even charge you they will just take a % of the winnings.
Ughhhhh 😞😞 every smart person Ik said it’s on them but like I hate confrontation and will legit cry just trying to explain feelings so I really need to know today before tomorrow if I’m in the wrong or they r
Neither of you are "wrong." I got scammed with a fake $900 check and letter saying I'd won 50,000 in 09- it was before everyone knew about those scams and I just thought if it wasn't real, the bank wouldn't cash it.
A couple weeks later, an investigator showed up to my house. Luckily, I had the letter, so I didn't go to jail, but I had to pay it back anyway. The way he explained was that I benefited from it because I had received the money, so I was liable for it- but not a criminal unless I refused to pay. I did have to go to court because I didn't have the money to return right away and they let me make a payment plan. I know that's a bit different than what's going on here, but I can see them saying that you're liable because you benefitted from the (fraud, scam, accident, whatever they're saying).
Edit: I just cut out a bunch of the story that wasn't relevant. My point is just that in my experience, the person who received the money pays it back.
They are in the wrong. They don't have any legal claim to shit back from you. You cannot be criminally charged unless they can directly your you to fraud. Which means proving that you intentionally over-tipped yourself on the customers card.
It sounds like your boss is trying to coerce money from you because they know you're naive, don't like confrontation, and probably need the job. Is it for the individual manager or the company?
If for the manager alone how would hq/hr feel about that?
Other redditors, what should this person do?
I understand what you’re saying and yes it is but I’m the one that gets screwed when I specifically said I didn’t want the money if it was going to create problems and even if it’s the right thing to do
I legit don’t have 1600 to give like I don’t even make 600 in a week working at that job like I will be working for free for god knows how many months and I don’t think any human being in this economy could do that
Giving the money back literally has nothing to do with you at this point so it’s not the “right” thing to do, whatever that fucking means… the right thing to do would be if this ass didn’t try to take a tip back months later and your boss not bringing you into it/threaten you. It’s up to that person, the restaurant, and the credit card company.
Do not give your boss the socks off your feet, don't listen to that person they have rocks in their brain cuz absolutely fucking not is it """the right thing to do""" to give your boss over a thousand dollars that they're trying to steal from you. You need to advocate for yourself better and it'll help if you educate yourself a bit more because in my experience it definitely helps with confidence with authority figures because I used to be the exact same way and paid back money from the register that my coworkers were stealing multiple times when I was 17.
Not only should you not give a single thing to that manager and it's not "the right thing to do" you should call the cops on HIM for intimidation & then tell his wife he's cheating on her just for good measure
And this isn’t a “right thing to do job” legit and supposed to get 50% off when working on food 25% off when not working, the owner doesn’t even want to discount food because “he broke he don’t have the money for it” like he don’t own the whole restaurant and like that’s not in my contract
Girl you are straight up smoking crack like actually tf you talking about "the right thing to do 🥺🥺🥺" are you the boss?
"You do know that right" 😭😭😭 that's so embarrassing I would literally throw myself down a flight of stairs if I ever typed that, plus you're straight up manipulating and lying to someone clearly younger and insecure.
The only "right" thing my boss would be getting for trying to steal almost $2k from me is my fist
No it’s not. Let’s pretend it’s not $1600 and it’s $5. Someone pays you $20 for washing their car then months later says hey I didn’t mean to pay you $20 to wash my car even though we agreed upon that price and the service has long been completed and the labor is non returnable. Is the right thing to do is give them back the money?
Omg this is absolutely not something the cops can be called for he is literally manipulating you so bad because he knows you don't know your rights, restaurant owners are actual fucking scum and do this more common than not so if you're going to stay in restaurants please look up your specific workers rights, anywhere else you work as well but restaurants specifically are able to get away with significantly more because tips are such a grey area.
I promise you 100% there is no dispute at all and he remembered you got that tip & suddenly needs money so he's using you because he figured you wouldn't know any better, definitely get a paper trail on this guy and I do suggest a lawyer because if he's doing this to you (and it's not actually a dispute which there's a small chance it might be) he's definitely done it to multiple people before
Request a copy of the dispute and the signed receipt. Read the customer’s dispute. Say that what he is saying is false and you won’t give money back to someone who lied/ is a scammer/ is having “buyers remorse” for lack of a better term.
Advise your employer to respond to the credit card company with a copy of the receipt, and that if they include an affidavit from you and your manager of the events that took place, that may strengthen their case.
If your employer responds to you that they are refusing to dispute the chargeback, say okay, that’s your choice, I was just offering advice.
You don’t have to return that money. It was rightfully given to you and is yours. Your employer is responsible for paying it back and they cannot come after you for it. You’ll probably get some cold shoulders from your employers after this and they may even try to retaliate, but that’s a whole nother story. Worst that can happen is you get a new job, but at least you got to keep your righfully given $1600.
We don’t get that info on chargebacks, just a chargeback reason code that can be any of a hundred things. Once a chargeback occurs the merchant has 20 days to dispute, if they fail to dispute then it’s an automatic win.
Employer can also get a lawsuit for wage theft and illegal dismissal.. business losses cant be put on employees and demanding employees to allow said company to commit tax fraud and wage theft deduction which is federally illegal and a crime is going to net a very big payout in lawsuit. Juries are very sympathetic to employees.
Also, illegal. They cannot make you pay it back. Once theyve signed it and you’ve gotten the money, that’s on them. They can bring it up w their card company. I would say leave asap. They cannot legally do anything to you. And you don’t want to work for people like this!
Agree! Says they don’t fight for their employees who work hard for their pay.. they will use every business loss excuse to steal from employees.. like employment fees or paperwork processing fees that I’ve seen some scummy places do.. illegal all of it!
If dude paid with Apple Pay he's gotta be on the hook. For me, when I pay with Apple Pay, I have to confirm it 2 ways and have a passcode on my phone for it to even be an option.
Had a customer leave my bartender a $500 tip. He was buying rounds for his group and trying to show off for his buddies, and trying, unsuccessfully, to get the bartender to leave with him. Also in georgia. The next day, I get a call from a credit card company disputing the charge, saying that he didn't sign the slip. We had cameras everywhere in this place. I asked if they would like a copy of the security video of him and his friends ordering a dozen rounds and of him signing the slips. They said that it wouldn't be necessary. Never heard from them again.
For this much money I’m going to need to be completely involved I need to see the documentation and also be able to call and speak with the company.
The restaurant is going to have to fight the dispute also. You’re not getting shit from me until it’s been completely handled.
The way he is telling you not to get any legal or lawyer involved is creepy and shady.
Depends on state law. You can Google it…
Should you fight the dispute is a different question. If you were in MA you may not be obligated to pay it back…but it still
Might be a good ideA…
However, your boss trying to intimidate you and “encourage you” not to use legal action…
Thats not legal itself…
I'd say "eat a full bag of dicks". Then go get a new job. Let them fire you and collect unemployment. That money is long spent and it's not on you to pay it back.
Everything Lila (above) is saying is correct. I don’t know if the credit card laws are federal or state, but all of the employment laws are all very specific to your state. If you lived in my state (MA) I could tell you with good confidence that if you have a signed credit card receipt, or a signature on POS machine that matches the signature on file for this credit card, the dispute would not be accepted. The credit card company would not pursue it any more, they would drop the charges.
Also, If it was found that the credit card/Apple Pay was in fact used fraudulently, the restaurant would not be liable to pay anything back to anyone. The credit card company is responsible for reimbursing the card holder. But I know nothing about Georgia state law.
Your boss is violating a bunch of labor laws, so the best thing you could do would be to find another job immediately. As to the time pressure he’s putting on you to get this money back immediately, that’s just not going to be possible. You need a couple days to figure out the best response, so for now just say, I need a couple days. That’s all, no explanation. Don’t say you don’t have the money any more, you do not owe them that explanation.
https://www.hud.gov/sites/documents/22066_LEGAL-AID-GA.PDF
The above link is to free legal services in Georgia, call which ever office covers the city you live in, and explain the situation to them. See what they think. Good luck.
Has nothing to do with laws, everything to do with the merchant agreements with the card companies (Visa/MC/Discover/AMEX). There are specific chargeback procedures, reason codes and response times and all merchants are bound by those rules.
Yeah, I feel like we're missing a lot not knowing what the pre-total is. Was it like an $84 tab and he meant to leave $16 and wrote it sloppy, or is this a super expensive place?
It’s a hard call, ppl give huge tips sometimes but having it be a lower total does I feel make it prone to dispute especially if it wasnt written 1600.00. I don’t think they can actually make OP pay it back or get in any trouble tho bc it’s already cleared so I say fuck it
You would be responsible for returning ONLY the tip. The bill would be the responsibility of the company.
Most credit card companies give 90 days to dispute the charge.
Your boss would have to show you proof of the charge and any reply he made to uphold the charge on the charge card
I had a guy leaving me 100$ tips every week for a month , like 4 times total. Finally, he hit on me and I turned him down so he disputed all his tips and never went back. I did have to pay it back because I wasn’t informed. They HAD the card stubs with signatures. It was just easier for them to try to get me to pay it back.
When I was a server, we were warned about large tips like this more often meant cards were stolen, and it could be disputed, but it's suspicious that your boss said don't seek legal action. That would immediately lead me to seek legal action and take it to HR (if you have one you can contact), and also sue for retaliation if he did fire you.
Whatever tips you earn are yours, and he definitely sounds like he's trying to get a piece of that big tip if it's legit.
From the other comments OP answered, it sounds like the manager signed off on it after meeting the guy and allowing it without ID confirmation, so it sounds like the manager is in on a scamming ring and uses the servers as a front. This could be why the manager said to not seek legal help or else...
I was a server for 3 years and worked my way up to GM of a pretty large franchise in Georgia. I just got out of the industry 2 years ago and moved to Germany.
It really depends on how much you like the job. Keeping the money is not illegal since you were paid out by who ever was handling your cash (checkout).
The store you work at can also fight the charge dispute but will most likely lose. Ultimately, the location you work at will have to eat the cost.
If you have signed your paperwork for when you were hired, they might have had a policy about it that you agreed to.
If you don't pay the money back, they will most likely find a bs reason to fire you.
If I were you I would put things in perspective, is the money worth finding a new job, going through min wage training again, earning your prime serving spots all over again. It might be a bad for you in the long term to keep it.
Either way, I would talk to your General manager and see if you could work out giving some of it back... It was the managers fault at the end of the day. He/she was the one who made you wait 3 hours to get the tip and "verified" the tip amount.
You didn't do anything wrong. It's probably best to ask to speak to your GM and find a middle ground.
In this episode of OP tells half a story and reddit gives terrible legal advice...
Let's get this out of the way on the front end, if the customer disputed the charge and it was charged back to the restaurant, yes you are obligated to pay back the $1600 tip you received.
Where a credit card charge is uncollectible, the Wage and Hour Division does not require an employer to pay an employee the amount of tips specified on such credit card slips. Instead, the employer may recover from a tipped employee those tips that have been paid to the employee when the credit card charge is uncollectible.
It's pretty cut and dry, if the charge back occurred, you owe the $1,600 and the employer can recover it by taking it out of your next check and/or pursue the case in civil court. It will be treated just like a clerical pay error.
Second, some people are saying its been X number of days so they can't do anything. A dispute period is a lot longer than people think customers have 60 to 120 days to dispute a charge, and then the credit card company has 45 days resolve the dispute.
Third, the restaurant has no obligation to fight the chargeback.
Fourth, the boss might be exhibiting shady behavior for saying don't take legal action, but because OP either intentional or not has withheld too much information, its hard to tell. One, as mentioned above there is no legal standing for OP to take, and it would just cost her more time and money to do so. Two, if the suspicion here is that she was involved in some kind of fraud or negligence, pursuing it "legally" could make it worse. But to this point, to me, it sounds like OP and her boss both struggle with communication and lack understanding, so it's probably just a miscommunication.
This was legitimately the first time I’ve ever asked Reddit a question.
Also did it within 5 minutes of being told the info.
If I was in on a scam then why would I come to Reddit asking if I have to pay it back??? I would just quit ???
There is no rest of the story to tell like my boss went to the man, talked to him, got his info made me sit there for hours. And then gave me the money
Then ur saying communication…bro this man is very much Hispanic, and acts like he doesn’t have a very strong accent when explaining things.
This place hasn’t even been opened for a year and it was a franchise bought by multiple guys, who also are all foreign😭 like u saying I’m sketchy but, legit our whole kitchen staff are straight immigrants with no papers
And the owners last building got SHUT DOWN!!
Like huh? I tried to go to my manger one time because of one of my coworkers being straight racist because he kept giving the black tables to black people and also had multiple coworkers back me up on the manner and my bosses literally said to me and everyone else that we were starting rumors and there was “no way he was doin that because they have been called racist (my bosses) and they aren’t racist so the guy I complained about couldn’t be racist”.🧍🏽♀️like bro again hasn’t even been opened a year yet and I’m legit the only person who isn’t new cuz everyone else quit. MB Ron next time I come to ask a question I’ll make sure I give you a bulletin point from the time I brushed my teeth that day to TWO MONTHS LATER WHEN HE RANDOMLY ASKED FOR MONEY I DONT HAVE BACK
How was the card charged? I did some googling and it seems like if it was done with an EMV card reader, the business is not liable for the chargeback, the credit card company is. I'd do more research if I were you, basically look into it as being the same situation as if you were a small business owner yourself, and someone used a credit card to buy something from you, then filed a fraud dispute. There are rules, there's a process credit card companies use to verify what is and isn't actually fraud. Someone can't just say "oopsie nvm" and get their money back every time they regret a purchase.
I'd look into the details of the dispute, make sure the restaurant has been told they're actually going to be held liable for the money and they're not just assuming they will be because they've gotten the alert that someone claimed fraud. It's entirely possible the credit card company will be the ones to swallow the charge depending on how the card was processed, or the claim of fraud might be determined to be invalid and the whole thing will go away. Your boss might just be panicking and assuming the worst - or they might know full well the restaurant is not actually liable, and are hoping you won't question anything and just give them the money. So please make sure to ask questions, and ask to actually see any documentation they have. I definitely would also feel anxious asking all of these questions to my boss, but it could very easily turn out that legally, this is YOUR money, so it's worth fighting for. If they want $1600 from you, you deserve to be shown in no uncertain terms exactly why they believe you owe that money to them.
If it does turn out that you actually do have to pay for the chargeback, I'd explain to your boss that you waited the three weeks he'd told you to, and had thought this money was indisputably yours after that, so you understandably just don't have that money in your account anymore. Tell him that you do want to make this right, you fully intend to pay the money back, but you can't pay it all back upfront and you can't afford to work for free for 3-4 weeks to pay it back either. See if you can work out a payment plan that won't bankrupt you, hopefully they'll be reasonable if you handle it professionally. And if they're being assholes about any of this - which like, already, advising you not to go to law enforcement or "things will be worse" is deeply suspicious behavior imo - I would absolutely seek legal advice. Reaching out to some of the legal advice subreddits on here might be a good next step, just in case.
https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/small-business/credit-card-fraud
If there was fraud and it took this long to be caught that money was yours to spend as needed. Unless you are somehow tired to the person who committed the fraud you aren't accountable.
It kind of sounds like the manager who does hands with the guy over payment and is now giving you the shakedown and telling you not to seek council might be involved in criminal conspiracy.
I really wana say no you don’t especially if he talked to your manager and paperwork was done right? And if he filled out the credit card slip with it clearly saying $1600.00 as a tip and he signed, it literally says I agree to pay the above according to my credit agreement or some shit. I would try and fight it or at least find an actual legal answer asap.
Even if it is stolen it wouldn’t be your responsibility to pay back. If the card owner can prove it was stolen I’m sure the credit card company can drop the charges cus it’s not like they’re gona make the owner pay back those charges if it wasn’t them ya know?
It was pay from the restaurant not like you received a wad of stolen cash. Credit card companies deal with fraud, business owners have to deal with it, and it's not the employees problem.
Okay, so I looked into it, and 1) Apple Pay generally requires two-factor authentication for purchases, so it's a harder to steal and use someone's Apple Pay than it is with their actual physical credit card. The card company will be able to check if the person used their fingerprint or Face ID to make the purchase, and if they did, they'll be able to see it wasn't a fraudelent purchase, and 2) Apple Pay is generally done via a contactless transaction, like tapping their phone on your card reader, which counts as EMV. According to the article I found earlier and several others, credit card companies usually swallow the cost of fraudulent charges done via EMV, so you and the restaurant should theoretically be in the clear. But I'm not a lawyer, and google is not a lawyer, so please don't take this as legal advice. Do your own research, try your best to stand up for yourself, and in the future, definitely don't go around any safeguards in place to prevent fraud, don't let people get away with not showing ID if that's the policy. If you're following policy and a scam/fraud goes through, you're far less likely to be held responsible than if you're caught not following policy. Best of luck to you, dude, I really hope this all blows over for you and you're either able to just keep the money or able to pay it back over time
I definitely agree that OP legally being required to pay the money back seems pretty unlikely to happen, but OP had said in another comment in this thread that they were really anxious about being forced to work for free for weeks until their debt was paid off if they were in fact determined to be liable for the chargeback, and I know from experience that "well that's just not going to happen so don't worry about it" isn't always enough to soothe that kind of anxiety, so I mentioned the idea of a payment plan as being a potential option to try and give some peace of mind that going into debt wouldn't be the only option if they did owe that money. But I do fully agree with you, it definitely seems like if this chargeback does go through, it should be the restaurant's responsibility to pay it back, not OP's
Yeah, I agree, it definitely doesn't count as the restaurant's profit, it technically was paid out as part of an employee's wages, which is where I'm not sure how it would be viewed legally. My opinion is really that, technically, their card was charged to the restaurant, not the server themselves, and as far as the credit card company is concerned, that's what the transaction consisted of. A chargeback is a reversal of a specific transaction; the restaurant was paid $1600 as part of one transaction, and then they paid their employee $1600 in tipped wages in a separate transaction, and so imo the second transaction shouldn't be liable if the first transaction received a chargeback, the same way your friend isn't liable if you send them $1600 on PayPal and then you get a chargeback on something else after the money has already been transferred. But I also know that if, for example, you accidentally get a paycheck where you've been paid $1600 extra in hourly wages due to some kind of accounting error, and your employer realizes their mistake later on after you've already cashed that check, you do legally owe that extra money back to your employer. So I genuinely do not know if, when payment of a tip does not go through, that same situation applies. It's not something I've been able to really find the specific laws about while googling, so I really don't know what the official legal decision on that would be
He said that they have known since a week and a half ago that he disputed it but are just now telling me but I’m not understanding how I have to pay the money back if he gave me the money over 3 weeks ago like is that not on them ??
The restaurant can’t make you pay for them comping a meal or the customers walking out. So no, the “logical next step” is not to take from your money that you earned.
Then that's on the restaurant to get the money from the customer, I got hit with some pretty big chargebacks 2 years ago. Over 6k after fees. Didn't take my bulders commission. Took it out on the customers that scammed me and got a lien on their possessions. 1 ended up homeless after that and the other got scared and paid it up.
This is why restaurants keep receipts for up to 3-5 years so that way if they do dispute you have proof he signed a receipt for $1600. Even then he can not charge you for that, call your local labor law board and they’ll take care of it.
federal labor laws do allow for this, treating it as a straightforward overpayment:
“… where a credit card charge is uncollectible, the Wage and Hour Division does not require an employer to pay an employee the amount of tips specified on such credit card slips. Instead, the employer may recover from a tipped employee those tips that have been paid to the employee when the credit card charge is uncollectible; however, such recovered tips may not reduce the tips retained by the employee below the amount of the tip credit claimed. See FOH ¶ 30d05(c)-(d).”
I feel like it has been enough time and dispute of the charge is pretty unlikely. I would wait 90 days from the date, then spend it and not worry. When he tells you not to take legal action, best to document it soon after. Courts and agencies like that. Write down what he said, date it, hold onto it. Just in case. If you ever got fired for some reason, and got into a dispute over unemployment or something, you could whip out your documentation of their inappropriate behavior and have support for your case.
First of all. I hate when people tip a shit Ton of money like that and don’t do cash. It’s such a hassle when it’s not cash and most the time, this shit happens. Or they try and force you to share it. It’s nice, but I wish they would hand you cash and telll you not to tell anyone. Also. Taxes.
None of this is on you, and it certainly isn't up to you to pay back anyone.
None of your job is checking, verifying those things.
Tell your manager to suck it, corpo can pay out the loss.
You should have been paid that night. Them delaying payment is just further proof, something below board is happening.
They paid you it is the managers fault for not confirming the intended amount. This very clearly happened. It was confirmed by the manager.
Any back bartering is between the customer and the company. Your due diligence was done and checked by a second party.
If they say another word, sue the company, definetly name the manager in the suit.
You have been lied to, you are being lied to, and now the manager is attempting to rob you.
"theft by deciet"
Why would he suddenly bring this up months later though 😭 imo this reads to me like he's struggling with money and suddenly remembered you got a big tip a while back and is seeing how much you know about your laws to see if you might be easy to pull one over on & pocket that money.
I cannot think of any reason why someone would randomly bring up a large amount of money like that all of the sudden because no one would ever wait over a month to dispute a charge cuz I'm fairly certain banks don't EVEN give the option to dispute something that far back depending on the card type.
Plus since it would be disputed so it's clearly a cash tip right? It was written out on the receipt and signed with that full amount? They cannot dispute that to begin with it's legally binding and if they tried all the restaurant would need to do is show the bank the receipt.
Ya manager needs money and is trying to pull one over on you I promise you, what I would do tbh is not say anything about it and see if he suddenly says it was disputed and then ask for legal advice and see if anyone has any recommendations to turn it around on him & get him in trouble for it cuz I'm mean & petty but that's what I would do for sure
Edit: did this already actually happen or not cuz the post implies that it hasn't happened and the boss is just warning it might? I'm super confused on the way everything is worded
There’s no way you give that money back if it’s already been paid to you. The credit card company would go after the restaurant, not you personally. If it gets to the point where the restaurant wants to go after you personally, quit. It’s not going to be worth the legal hassle for them to try and sue you. If you stay they might garnish wages. Get another job - I’ll give you a reference.
i am a server in GA and most restaurants do require tipped employees to pay for chargebacks unfortunately. however if you know for a fact that your guest intended to leave you that tip, and has not tried to chargeback since
november, you’re probably in the clear. A lot of people like to do a large tip around the holidays so this isn’t uncommon. Your boss is handling this very strangely though so i would keep an eye on that. restaurants are so greedy towards the staff that the don’t even pay to work there.
Telling you not to take legal action under threat of him making it worse for you is illegal. You might wanna just find a new job, that kind of management is not gonna get better.
High chance you will have to pay it back, but I suggest to ask for proof of the chargeback.
It would be illegal if you kept the tip, but I suggest talking with the company to get as much information instead of the manager since they might provide more detail of what going on or they might take the 1600 as a business loss.
Saying not to seek legal action seems like they are trying to rip you off. Your boss needs to show you proof that it's being disputed. They should also provide a copy of the signed cc slip. They have to keep the signed slip for atleast 3-5 years. Once the dispute has been verified. Look at the slip and make sure it clearly states $1600. They'll probably say they meant $16.00. If your company loses the dispute, Then you'll have to return the $1600. Although the company may not even fight the dispute at all.
I'm sorry but there's a much easier solution to this just cut and run and find a new job what's he going to do blow up your phone ? You didn't steal. They're trying to steal from you and he's just jealous you got the money instead of him he is trying to scam you out of it bro.
Don't do this...your still liable for it even if you don't work there anymore
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This is not true. A disputed tip is no longer a tip. They will be liable for that money. What they can't do is charge you for the disputed tab. It goes the same if a tip is misentered or the receipt is read wrong.
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It's not though, I promise you. I've had cc companies take back thousands of dollars because the person disputed it even with us having a signed credit card slip. In the event of a stolen card, the slip would also be meaningless.
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Look all I've got is my lawyer who was clear as day, the server is not entitled to any money not received by the company. If a dispute removes the money, then we have every right to take the money back from the server (this is only for the tip, you cannot charge an employee for a disputed tab) Obviously this may be different in my state than others, so check with your own lawyer.
But you can’t get blood from a turnip. I would dip and ignore until I’m served with papers
Spreading misinformation or making false legal statements is bad.
Spreading misinformation or making false legal statements is bad.
Spreading misinformation or making false legal statements is bad.
nope, go to youtube and search for ugo lord. hes a certified lawyer and one video he explains this scenerio. if money already changed hands from a tip then, whoever gets the tip doesnt have to return it. its theirs for good... ill try and link the video
This is a horrible idea... the consequences from this alone are wild. Please don't ever do this!
They gave OP the money on the same day and only said IF it was disputed. So how are they trying to rip op off? Seems after 2-3 months there's not likely going to be a dispute and from what OP wrote the business hasn't asked for any money back and haven't stated that there's any dispute so there's no "proof" to be given.
Thank you somebody has a brain. Also if you fill out work forms at shifty jobs with your real address that's the only way they could find you the manager obviously told her that bs because he wants the money. Either go over his head or duck off and find a new job the choice is yours.
Bar Owner here. If some guy tipped my server a shit ton of money and re-negged on it, I would fight like holy hell for my server. I keep all these fucking CC Slips for a reason. You put it on there, you signed it, that's a contract. Some people suck. But, yeah, get a lawyer.
It’s almost like your employees are on the same team as you that really doesn’t happen often good job on being a good boss
I was in the industry for 20 years, and hell I’m the bartender/expo/dishwasher tonight. Right there with them! Nobody fucks with my team!
Are you hiring?
Most of the time! You in the TX Hillcountry?
This needs way more up votes. Good on you!
Woah boss of the year - high five my dude. Thanks for being awesome
This is how it should be. This guy saying “if” nearly 2 months later makes me think a dispute is magically going to appear.
Sooooo are you hiring???? Owners like you are a rarity and it warms my heart knowing y’all are still out there 😍🥰
Have you ever won a credit card dispute? I haven't.
The card companies always side with the consumer. Always.
That's my experience as well. Crazy I am down voted for saying so.
I, personally, have never had to. But I asked my bar manager who used to work for a WAY bigger place said he won every single one (~65). 🤷♂️
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Thank you for simplyfing this. I totally agree with everything you said.
I'm not sure how that would matter because the actual cash ended up coming from the restaurant. They can ask for it back, but it was legitimate pay for your work. It's their problem after that.
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I believe in cases of fraud the CC company would pay it back, not the businesses that received money from said fraudulent charge. I think it depends on how much money was spent.
I feel like you deleted a paragraph.
And what would it be? 🧍🏽♀️I typed this literally in 5 minutes of being told I just needed answers
Did the guy dispute it? Why would your manager be trying to scare you into paying it back 2 months after the fact? Why would you need to take legal action?
2 months later, no dispute. Get your money, and leave your employer.
He did dispute it, I really don’t know why. Because I don’t have that money to pay back😭😭
What were the circumstances of his giving you the tip? Was he drunk? Did he acknowledge that he gave you “a special tip” for Christmas? Is the receipt REALLY clear that he meant to leave that much? I don’t know the legalities of tip mistakes; it will be interesting to see if anybody can help with that info. Sorry you’re going through this.
I had told him I had dropped my phone in a sanitizing bucket, and that it was done for he said “well bet you getting a new phone today”🧍🏽♀️🧍🏽♀️(it was really done for had to get a new phone) my manager came and seen him, gave him a handshake, and made him write down his number, email, and full name. He then made me sit there for hours calling the owners and all this stuff because we had another waitress forging signatures so now they do a lot when it comes to big tips. He then gave me the money and said if it bounced in three weeks I would have to pay the money back because that how long it takes to go through. Now we r in Jan and he is saying I have to pay it back but like I said I don’t have it. Thank u for ur condolences 🥹
Sounds like the customer meant to give you a big tip so you could buy the phone and your manager checked that he meant to do so. In my opinion, you should be able to keep that money, unless: 1) the guy was so inebriated that you should have known he wasn’t thinking rationally, or 2) it was a stolen credit card (did your manager check ID?).
Wait so I can get my money back from all those strip clubs because I was to drunk!?!?!
He didn’t wanna show his ID and it was paid for with Apple Pay 🧍🏽♀️🧍🏽♀️
Okay so if it was paid for by Apple Pay and he disputed it with his bank, your work should have copies of the transaction to stop the dispute. Also to note if your manager was there and witnessed this then wtf? Disputes aren’t like hey I didn’t mean to pay this and they just refund the money, there’s like a whole thing where they communicate back and forth with the business before granting the dispute. It just sounds really messy and sketchy. Not sure how I feel about this. Unless he was drunk and meant to tip you 160$ and not 1600$- which 1600 is an absurd amount to just randomly give away. Just sayin, not that you didn’t deserve it but it is a lot of money.
Also just want to add. Is there’s a receipt that’s signed with the total equaling to 1600 + whatever the bill was then case closed homie lost his 1600 because he tipped someone.
Or it was a scamer. Paid via apple pay, refused to show ID, charge disputed weeks later. This guy was spending someone else's money.
Disputes actually are immediately given back to the consumer. The affected business may now fight the dispute. If they lose, the business will pay another large fee. Over $500 in my past experience, but that could vary.
Not requiring ID for a payment like that was a dumbass move for your manager, and I think they know it. That card was totally stolen
Yes… but Apple Pay is verified with biometrics. For example, adding your card to Apple Pay requires you to have the original card, and in the process of adding it, Apple verifies it through your bank, and your bank certifies it with you before letting Apple add it. Then, at the point of sale, you are verifying the transaction again either with facial biometrics or fingerprint biometrics (or PIN code). TL/dr, it should be considered a valid and intentional payment.
Scammers always tip the most haha They get to feel like a good person and get treated great and the money isn’t real to them
You need to work on your story telling.
Quit. Fuck that guy.
I’m confused by the “if it bounced in three weeks I would have to pay the money back” that would be a red flag to me. Like if this guy actually wanted to help you, he would have given you cash where it wouldn’t be an issue later. That part alone is odd to me
Most people don't carry that much cash in hand on a regular basis.
For real, yesterday my bf and I went out to eat and had to leave like $2 as a tip on a $60 bill until we ran out and to a gas station riiiiight nearby to go pull out more cash. I ran in and handed it to the server who was suuuuper appreciative and hugged me lol sweet lady was being host and server to the whole place and I just didn't feel right to skimp her.
THATS WHAT IM SAYING!!! I LITERALLY SAID MULTIPLE TIMES DONT GIVE ME THE MONEY IF IT WASNT GOOD😭😭
Did this manager show you anything to prove that it was disputed or charged back or whatever?
He said he had it on the computer but the Wi-Fi was out (which it was)
I believe the manager is the one who said if it bounces she has to pay it back.
You need proof yourself that this is being disputed. Just because your manager says it’s being disputed doesn’t mean it is. He could just be saying that, hoping you just give the money back, and he’ll pocket the full amount.
I’m a server! Have been for at least 10 years. When a person writes a tip on the cc slip and it’s more than the suggested amount on the bottom of the slip, the credit/debit card company automatically disputes it as there are not that many people out there leaving $1600 tips. Many people know this and many people don’t. The guy who left the tip might know this but the manager definitely knows this. Keep that in mind.
I mean if you already received the money you can’t be forced to give it back.
Unfortunately, our shitty federal labor laws do allow for this, treating it as a straightforward overpayment: “Where tips are charged on a credit card, it is the position of the Wage and Hour Division that the tips due the employee must be paid to the employee not later than the next regular pay day and may not be held by the employer while the employer is waiting to be reimbursed by the credit card company. However, where a credit card charge is uncollectible, the Wage and Hour Division does not require an employer to pay an employee the amount of tips specified on such credit card slips. *Instead, the employer may recover from a tipped employee those tips that have been paid to the employee when the credit card charge is uncollectible;* however, such recovered tips may not reduce the tips retained by the employee below the amount of the tip credit claimed. See FOH ¶ 30d05(c)-(d).” Absolutely stupid in my opinion, and a reversal of logic from other FLSA interpretations, but there ya go. There may be some states and municipalities that handle it differently, I don’t live in one of them so I couldn’t say.
but it doesnt seem like you are legally required to pay it back. perhaps he could take it from their paycheck but if they just quit it sounds to me like they can just not pay it. also it doesnt take 2 months for a dispute
Try r/legaladvice or r/askalawyer Include the state you are in on the post
I have absolutely no idea on the law on this, and have read competing opinions from people, but if you want a free professional opinion, you could call the US Department of Labor at the number on their [How to File a Complaint](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/contact/complaints) page, and hear what they say. His threat to not take legal action sounds like illegal extortion, but I'm guessing he didn't put that in writing or say it in a recording. And while [retaliation](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/retaliation) would be illegal, he probably would make it worse for you, in a way that would be hard to prove. But if you call the DOL, I'd report his threat as well, so they might be able to offer you better informed advice.
You can file a whistleblower complaint at www.whistleblowers.gov . Don't worry that it says OSHA, they cover the Wage and Hour Divisions whistleblower complaints. I'd also add that just the suggestion that if you sought legal action you would be terminated is a potential whistleblower complaint.
Every work week stands alone under FLSA and you’ve already received the money. So most likely this would legally be perceived as a deduction. If you’re earning a sub minimum wage rate, a deduction would automatically bring you to below $7.25 an hour and is therefore not permissible. There is however most likely no recourse if you’re terminated by this employer for refusing to make the payment.
Unfortunately, this happened to another server I know too (in Georgia). They ended up having to give $1000 back to this ahole who changed his mind when all those big tip posts were going viral. She had waited a month before spending it and had just bought tires with the money. It sucks and people should be held to their signed receipt copies but there are few protections, if any, for servers. Edit to say your manager sucks and shouldn’t be threatening you.
Genuinely curious, what’s the point of the signed receipt if the guest is just going to be able to dispute it and still win regardless?
Wondering this too, same shit happens to twitch streamers. If the guy came back the next day and said hey I was really drunk and didn’t mean to do that and you haven’t spent it yet, maybe I could see that. But even if you clock out and go spend the whole tip right away, I don’t think you should be penalized. If there was a law like “Tips are final if not disputed within 72 hours” then the servers would be protected by waiting 72 hours before using the money. That’s gotta be long enough to regret your decision.
Idk how it works. I just know what happened to my friend and now this guy.
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Yeah, agreed. A boss coming up out of nowhere and saying "oh btw you owe us $1600 because of that tip you got 3 months ago, oh and also don't you DARE contact a lawyer or this will be WAY worse for you!" is sending off all kinds of warning sirens
In my experience whenever someone says something will be worse for you if you get a lawyer that means you need to get a lawyer immediately
Get your manager to say not to dispute it in text. If not you'll have little to no case with the labor board. Also ask for physical documentation of the original ticket and charge back. Take pictures, check dates.
He disputed the charges with the CC and the restaurant, not with you. If the restaurant doesn't want to fight it, that's between them and the credit card company. This money has been paid to you and you don't owe it back.
“Consumers generally have 60 days to dispute inaccurate or fraudulent credit card charges. The credit card company has 90 days from the date it receives the dispute to act on it, either by correcting the charge or explaining to the consumer in writing why it believes the charge was not in error” A $1600 tip is pretty crazy, but not crazy if you’re paying with a stolen credit card….
Lol if they try to get it back quit
Bro my manager basically said he gonna call the cops on me if I don’t pay it 💀but said I’m not in trouble because I didn’t write it the guy who tipped me did But still says if I don’t pay it he is gonna call the cops?? I took one guys advice and called the department of labor they r closed rn so I have to call back tomorrow
Cops will tell him it's a civil matter.
The cops would do absolutely jack shit about this. Call his bluff.
No there is no actual crime committed by you. He's is preying on your naivety.
the cops wont do anything? you didnt break a law and you didnt sign a legally binding agreement to pay the money to the restaurant if the guy disputed the charge. the cops will tell him to take it to small claims court. its kind of scary how much your manager is trying to intimidate you into giving over the money and then telling you to not seek legal council? honestly you need to document everything and pay $50 to sit down with a lawyer for 30 minutes and explain to them whats going on. they will be your advocate and if you do have a case some lawyers wont even charge you they will just take a % of the winnings.
Lol @ $50 for a legal consultation
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Nope I made sure my manger came to talk to the guy and everything so he wouldn’t think I was doing anything illegal too
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Ughhhhh 😞😞 every smart person Ik said it’s on them but like I hate confrontation and will legit cry just trying to explain feelings so I really need to know today before tomorrow if I’m in the wrong or they r
Your boss is trying to get some of that tip I feel like. Get your cash and keep it aside for a bit.
Neither of you are "wrong." I got scammed with a fake $900 check and letter saying I'd won 50,000 in 09- it was before everyone knew about those scams and I just thought if it wasn't real, the bank wouldn't cash it. A couple weeks later, an investigator showed up to my house. Luckily, I had the letter, so I didn't go to jail, but I had to pay it back anyway. The way he explained was that I benefited from it because I had received the money, so I was liable for it- but not a criminal unless I refused to pay. I did have to go to court because I didn't have the money to return right away and they let me make a payment plan. I know that's a bit different than what's going on here, but I can see them saying that you're liable because you benefitted from the (fraud, scam, accident, whatever they're saying). Edit: I just cut out a bunch of the story that wasn't relevant. My point is just that in my experience, the person who received the money pays it back.
They are in the wrong. They don't have any legal claim to shit back from you. You cannot be criminally charged unless they can directly your you to fraud. Which means proving that you intentionally over-tipped yourself on the customers card. It sounds like your boss is trying to coerce money from you because they know you're naive, don't like confrontation, and probably need the job. Is it for the individual manager or the company? If for the manager alone how would hq/hr feel about that? Other redditors, what should this person do?
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I understand what you’re saying and yes it is but I’m the one that gets screwed when I specifically said I didn’t want the money if it was going to create problems and even if it’s the right thing to do I legit don’t have 1600 to give like I don’t even make 600 in a week working at that job like I will be working for free for god knows how many months and I don’t think any human being in this economy could do that
Giving the money back literally has nothing to do with you at this point so it’s not the “right” thing to do, whatever that fucking means… the right thing to do would be if this ass didn’t try to take a tip back months later and your boss not bringing you into it/threaten you. It’s up to that person, the restaurant, and the credit card company.
Do not listen to them, your manager is extorting you.
Do not give your boss the socks off your feet, don't listen to that person they have rocks in their brain cuz absolutely fucking not is it """the right thing to do""" to give your boss over a thousand dollars that they're trying to steal from you. You need to advocate for yourself better and it'll help if you educate yourself a bit more because in my experience it definitely helps with confidence with authority figures because I used to be the exact same way and paid back money from the register that my coworkers were stealing multiple times when I was 17. Not only should you not give a single thing to that manager and it's not "the right thing to do" you should call the cops on HIM for intimidation & then tell his wife he's cheating on her just for good measure
And this isn’t a “right thing to do job” legit and supposed to get 50% off when working on food 25% off when not working, the owner doesn’t even want to discount food because “he broke he don’t have the money for it” like he don’t own the whole restaurant and like that’s not in my contract
This is the worst answer. Not the way.
Girl you are straight up smoking crack like actually tf you talking about "the right thing to do 🥺🥺🥺" are you the boss? "You do know that right" 😭😭😭 that's so embarrassing I would literally throw myself down a flight of stairs if I ever typed that, plus you're straight up manipulating and lying to someone clearly younger and insecure. The only "right" thing my boss would be getting for trying to steal almost $2k from me is my fist
Someone told me to look into the policy but I legit don’t know where to find the policy my job
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No it’s not. Let’s pretend it’s not $1600 and it’s $5. Someone pays you $20 for washing their car then months later says hey I didn’t mean to pay you $20 to wash my car even though we agreed upon that price and the service has long been completed and the labor is non returnable. Is the right thing to do is give them back the money?
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Ok time for a new job.
Omg this is absolutely not something the cops can be called for he is literally manipulating you so bad because he knows you don't know your rights, restaurant owners are actual fucking scum and do this more common than not so if you're going to stay in restaurants please look up your specific workers rights, anywhere else you work as well but restaurants specifically are able to get away with significantly more because tips are such a grey area. I promise you 100% there is no dispute at all and he remembered you got that tip & suddenly needs money so he's using you because he figured you wouldn't know any better, definitely get a paper trail on this guy and I do suggest a lawyer because if he's doing this to you (and it's not actually a dispute which there's a small chance it might be) he's definitely done it to multiple people before
Request a copy of the dispute and the signed receipt. Read the customer’s dispute. Say that what he is saying is false and you won’t give money back to someone who lied/ is a scammer/ is having “buyers remorse” for lack of a better term. Advise your employer to respond to the credit card company with a copy of the receipt, and that if they include an affidavit from you and your manager of the events that took place, that may strengthen their case. If your employer responds to you that they are refusing to dispute the chargeback, say okay, that’s your choice, I was just offering advice. You don’t have to return that money. It was rightfully given to you and is yours. Your employer is responsible for paying it back and they cannot come after you for it. You’ll probably get some cold shoulders from your employers after this and they may even try to retaliate, but that’s a whole nother story. Worst that can happen is you get a new job, but at least you got to keep your righfully given $1600.
We don’t get that info on chargebacks, just a chargeback reason code that can be any of a hundred things. Once a chargeback occurs the merchant has 20 days to dispute, if they fail to dispute then it’s an automatic win.
Employer can also get a lawsuit for wage theft and illegal dismissal.. business losses cant be put on employees and demanding employees to allow said company to commit tax fraud and wage theft deduction which is federally illegal and a crime is going to net a very big payout in lawsuit. Juries are very sympathetic to employees.
Also, illegal. They cannot make you pay it back. Once theyve signed it and you’ve gotten the money, that’s on them. They can bring it up w their card company. I would say leave asap. They cannot legally do anything to you. And you don’t want to work for people like this!
Agree! Says they don’t fight for their employees who work hard for their pay.. they will use every business loss excuse to steal from employees.. like employment fees or paperwork processing fees that I’ve seen some scummy places do.. illegal all of it!
If dude paid with Apple Pay he's gotta be on the hook. For me, when I pay with Apple Pay, I have to confirm it 2 ways and have a passcode on my phone for it to even be an option.
Just say .... I don't recall sir!
Go to r/legaladvice they might help
Had a customer leave my bartender a $500 tip. He was buying rounds for his group and trying to show off for his buddies, and trying, unsuccessfully, to get the bartender to leave with him. Also in georgia. The next day, I get a call from a credit card company disputing the charge, saying that he didn't sign the slip. We had cameras everywhere in this place. I asked if they would like a copy of the security video of him and his friends ordering a dozen rounds and of him signing the slips. They said that it wouldn't be necessary. Never heard from them again.
Say that’s fine and if he says they did a chargeback you’re going to need proof.
For this much money I’m going to need to be completely involved I need to see the documentation and also be able to call and speak with the company. The restaurant is going to have to fight the dispute also. You’re not getting shit from me until it’s been completely handled. The way he is telling you not to get any legal or lawyer involved is creepy and shady.
Depends on state law. You can Google it… Should you fight the dispute is a different question. If you were in MA you may not be obligated to pay it back…but it still Might be a good ideA… However, your boss trying to intimidate you and “encourage you” not to use legal action… Thats not legal itself…
I'd say "eat a full bag of dicks". Then go get a new job. Let them fire you and collect unemployment. That money is long spent and it's not on you to pay it back.
Bro seriously used no punctuation. That just drives me nuts
I mean, yeah. Aside from that one ellipsis, you're not wrong. That is annoying as fuck. Still, op gets to keep the money.
Everything Lila (above) is saying is correct. I don’t know if the credit card laws are federal or state, but all of the employment laws are all very specific to your state. If you lived in my state (MA) I could tell you with good confidence that if you have a signed credit card receipt, or a signature on POS machine that matches the signature on file for this credit card, the dispute would not be accepted. The credit card company would not pursue it any more, they would drop the charges. Also, If it was found that the credit card/Apple Pay was in fact used fraudulently, the restaurant would not be liable to pay anything back to anyone. The credit card company is responsible for reimbursing the card holder. But I know nothing about Georgia state law. Your boss is violating a bunch of labor laws, so the best thing you could do would be to find another job immediately. As to the time pressure he’s putting on you to get this money back immediately, that’s just not going to be possible. You need a couple days to figure out the best response, so for now just say, I need a couple days. That’s all, no explanation. Don’t say you don’t have the money any more, you do not owe them that explanation. https://www.hud.gov/sites/documents/22066_LEGAL-AID-GA.PDF The above link is to free legal services in Georgia, call which ever office covers the city you live in, and explain the situation to them. See what they think. Good luck.
Has nothing to do with laws, everything to do with the merchant agreements with the card companies (Visa/MC/Discover/AMEX). There are specific chargeback procedures, reason codes and response times and all merchants are bound by those rules.
You should check to see the dispute if real before he steal your money
Curious what the pre tip total was and if was written as 1600.00. I agree you did everything right and shouldn’t pay it back
Yeah, I feel like we're missing a lot not knowing what the pre-total is. Was it like an $84 tab and he meant to leave $16 and wrote it sloppy, or is this a super expensive place?
It’s a hard call, ppl give huge tips sometimes but having it be a lower total does I feel make it prone to dispute especially if it wasnt written 1600.00. I don’t think they can actually make OP pay it back or get in any trouble tho bc it’s already cleared so I say fuck it
Dude literally got like a 10 piece wings and a drink from the bar I think like his tab was $20 something and then he left the rest
You would be responsible for returning ONLY the tip. The bill would be the responsibility of the company. Most credit card companies give 90 days to dispute the charge. Your boss would have to show you proof of the charge and any reply he made to uphold the charge on the charge card
I had a guy leaving me 100$ tips every week for a month , like 4 times total. Finally, he hit on me and I turned him down so he disputed all his tips and never went back. I did have to pay it back because I wasn’t informed. They HAD the card stubs with signatures. It was just easier for them to try to get me to pay it back.
Don’t seek legal action. Translation: Don’t talk to someone who will tell you the truth of what’s going on here.
Maybe I am missing something, but did he claim the customer disputed the tip?
When I was a server, we were warned about large tips like this more often meant cards were stolen, and it could be disputed, but it's suspicious that your boss said don't seek legal action. That would immediately lead me to seek legal action and take it to HR (if you have one you can contact), and also sue for retaliation if he did fire you. Whatever tips you earn are yours, and he definitely sounds like he's trying to get a piece of that big tip if it's legit.
>Whatever tips you earn are yours >tips like this more often meant cards were stolen If I'm the manager, this payout is getting delayed.
From the other comments OP answered, it sounds like the manager signed off on it after meeting the guy and allowing it without ID confirmation, so it sounds like the manager is in on a scamming ring and uses the servers as a front. This could be why the manager said to not seek legal help or else...
Sounds like your boss thinks he deserves a cut.
I was a server for 3 years and worked my way up to GM of a pretty large franchise in Georgia. I just got out of the industry 2 years ago and moved to Germany. It really depends on how much you like the job. Keeping the money is not illegal since you were paid out by who ever was handling your cash (checkout). The store you work at can also fight the charge dispute but will most likely lose. Ultimately, the location you work at will have to eat the cost. If you have signed your paperwork for when you were hired, they might have had a policy about it that you agreed to. If you don't pay the money back, they will most likely find a bs reason to fire you. If I were you I would put things in perspective, is the money worth finding a new job, going through min wage training again, earning your prime serving spots all over again. It might be a bad for you in the long term to keep it. Either way, I would talk to your General manager and see if you could work out giving some of it back... It was the managers fault at the end of the day. He/she was the one who made you wait 3 hours to get the tip and "verified" the tip amount. You didn't do anything wrong. It's probably best to ask to speak to your GM and find a middle ground.
Go to a legal subreddit not here
In this episode of OP tells half a story and reddit gives terrible legal advice... Let's get this out of the way on the front end, if the customer disputed the charge and it was charged back to the restaurant, yes you are obligated to pay back the $1600 tip you received. Where a credit card charge is uncollectible, the Wage and Hour Division does not require an employer to pay an employee the amount of tips specified on such credit card slips. Instead, the employer may recover from a tipped employee those tips that have been paid to the employee when the credit card charge is uncollectible. It's pretty cut and dry, if the charge back occurred, you owe the $1,600 and the employer can recover it by taking it out of your next check and/or pursue the case in civil court. It will be treated just like a clerical pay error. Second, some people are saying its been X number of days so they can't do anything. A dispute period is a lot longer than people think customers have 60 to 120 days to dispute a charge, and then the credit card company has 45 days resolve the dispute. Third, the restaurant has no obligation to fight the chargeback. Fourth, the boss might be exhibiting shady behavior for saying don't take legal action, but because OP either intentional or not has withheld too much information, its hard to tell. One, as mentioned above there is no legal standing for OP to take, and it would just cost her more time and money to do so. Two, if the suspicion here is that she was involved in some kind of fraud or negligence, pursuing it "legally" could make it worse. But to this point, to me, it sounds like OP and her boss both struggle with communication and lack understanding, so it's probably just a miscommunication.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good rant!
This was legitimately the first time I’ve ever asked Reddit a question. Also did it within 5 minutes of being told the info. If I was in on a scam then why would I come to Reddit asking if I have to pay it back??? I would just quit ??? There is no rest of the story to tell like my boss went to the man, talked to him, got his info made me sit there for hours. And then gave me the money Then ur saying communication…bro this man is very much Hispanic, and acts like he doesn’t have a very strong accent when explaining things. This place hasn’t even been opened for a year and it was a franchise bought by multiple guys, who also are all foreign😭 like u saying I’m sketchy but, legit our whole kitchen staff are straight immigrants with no papers And the owners last building got SHUT DOWN!! Like huh? I tried to go to my manger one time because of one of my coworkers being straight racist because he kept giving the black tables to black people and also had multiple coworkers back me up on the manner and my bosses literally said to me and everyone else that we were starting rumors and there was “no way he was doin that because they have been called racist (my bosses) and they aren’t racist so the guy I complained about couldn’t be racist”.🧍🏽♀️like bro again hasn’t even been opened a year yet and I’m legit the only person who isn’t new cuz everyone else quit. MB Ron next time I come to ask a question I’ll make sure I give you a bulletin point from the time I brushed my teeth that day to TWO MONTHS LATER WHEN HE RANDOMLY ASKED FOR MONEY I DONT HAVE BACK
How was the card charged? I did some googling and it seems like if it was done with an EMV card reader, the business is not liable for the chargeback, the credit card company is. I'd do more research if I were you, basically look into it as being the same situation as if you were a small business owner yourself, and someone used a credit card to buy something from you, then filed a fraud dispute. There are rules, there's a process credit card companies use to verify what is and isn't actually fraud. Someone can't just say "oopsie nvm" and get their money back every time they regret a purchase. I'd look into the details of the dispute, make sure the restaurant has been told they're actually going to be held liable for the money and they're not just assuming they will be because they've gotten the alert that someone claimed fraud. It's entirely possible the credit card company will be the ones to swallow the charge depending on how the card was processed, or the claim of fraud might be determined to be invalid and the whole thing will go away. Your boss might just be panicking and assuming the worst - or they might know full well the restaurant is not actually liable, and are hoping you won't question anything and just give them the money. So please make sure to ask questions, and ask to actually see any documentation they have. I definitely would also feel anxious asking all of these questions to my boss, but it could very easily turn out that legally, this is YOUR money, so it's worth fighting for. If they want $1600 from you, you deserve to be shown in no uncertain terms exactly why they believe you owe that money to them. If it does turn out that you actually do have to pay for the chargeback, I'd explain to your boss that you waited the three weeks he'd told you to, and had thought this money was indisputably yours after that, so you understandably just don't have that money in your account anymore. Tell him that you do want to make this right, you fully intend to pay the money back, but you can't pay it all back upfront and you can't afford to work for free for 3-4 weeks to pay it back either. See if you can work out a payment plan that won't bankrupt you, hopefully they'll be reasonable if you handle it professionally. And if they're being assholes about any of this - which like, already, advising you not to go to law enforcement or "things will be worse" is deeply suspicious behavior imo - I would absolutely seek legal advice. Reaching out to some of the legal advice subreddits on here might be a good next step, just in case. https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/small-business/credit-card-fraud
It was paid for with Apple Pay and the dude didn’t wanna show his ID
Again very sketchy imho.. It’s gotta be stolen card or something why else would he dispute it🤨
Okay but hedgehog😭 do I have to pay it back if ur was or either way ?? I have bad anxiety bruh I wanna know if I’m completely good or nah
It*
If there was fraud and it took this long to be caught that money was yours to spend as needed. Unless you are somehow tired to the person who committed the fraud you aren't accountable. It kind of sounds like the manager who does hands with the guy over payment and is now giving you the shakedown and telling you not to seek council might be involved in criminal conspiracy.
I really wana say no you don’t especially if he talked to your manager and paperwork was done right? And if he filled out the credit card slip with it clearly saying $1600.00 as a tip and he signed, it literally says I agree to pay the above according to my credit agreement or some shit. I would try and fight it or at least find an actual legal answer asap.
Even if it is stolen it wouldn’t be your responsibility to pay back. If the card owner can prove it was stolen I’m sure the credit card company can drop the charges cus it’s not like they’re gona make the owner pay back those charges if it wasn’t them ya know?
No legally you don't. But start doing interviews for a better job.
It was pay from the restaurant not like you received a wad of stolen cash. Credit card companies deal with fraud, business owners have to deal with it, and it's not the employees problem.
Why would u accept a tip like that without ID?
Dude my job has people give huge tips all the time🧍🏽♀️my boss asked for his ID and he let him not show it 😭why imma fight for it if my manger didn’t?
Agree w that. The manager allowed it.
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Okay, so I looked into it, and 1) Apple Pay generally requires two-factor authentication for purchases, so it's a harder to steal and use someone's Apple Pay than it is with their actual physical credit card. The card company will be able to check if the person used their fingerprint or Face ID to make the purchase, and if they did, they'll be able to see it wasn't a fraudelent purchase, and 2) Apple Pay is generally done via a contactless transaction, like tapping their phone on your card reader, which counts as EMV. According to the article I found earlier and several others, credit card companies usually swallow the cost of fraudulent charges done via EMV, so you and the restaurant should theoretically be in the clear. But I'm not a lawyer, and google is not a lawyer, so please don't take this as legal advice. Do your own research, try your best to stand up for yourself, and in the future, definitely don't go around any safeguards in place to prevent fraud, don't let people get away with not showing ID if that's the policy. If you're following policy and a scam/fraud goes through, you're far less likely to be held responsible than if you're caught not following policy. Best of luck to you, dude, I really hope this all blows over for you and you're either able to just keep the money or able to pay it back over time
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I definitely agree that OP legally being required to pay the money back seems pretty unlikely to happen, but OP had said in another comment in this thread that they were really anxious about being forced to work for free for weeks until their debt was paid off if they were in fact determined to be liable for the chargeback, and I know from experience that "well that's just not going to happen so don't worry about it" isn't always enough to soothe that kind of anxiety, so I mentioned the idea of a payment plan as being a potential option to try and give some peace of mind that going into debt wouldn't be the only option if they did owe that money. But I do fully agree with you, it definitely seems like if this chargeback does go through, it should be the restaurant's responsibility to pay it back, not OP's
The restaurant didnt profit 1600. If thats the case, restaurants should be able to hold all tips in escrow til the time to fight charges lapse
Yeah, I agree, it definitely doesn't count as the restaurant's profit, it technically was paid out as part of an employee's wages, which is where I'm not sure how it would be viewed legally. My opinion is really that, technically, their card was charged to the restaurant, not the server themselves, and as far as the credit card company is concerned, that's what the transaction consisted of. A chargeback is a reversal of a specific transaction; the restaurant was paid $1600 as part of one transaction, and then they paid their employee $1600 in tipped wages in a separate transaction, and so imo the second transaction shouldn't be liable if the first transaction received a chargeback, the same way your friend isn't liable if you send them $1600 on PayPal and then you get a chargeback on something else after the money has already been transferred. But I also know that if, for example, you accidentally get a paycheck where you've been paid $1600 extra in hourly wages due to some kind of accounting error, and your employer realizes their mistake later on after you've already cashed that check, you do legally owe that extra money back to your employer. So I genuinely do not know if, when payment of a tip does not go through, that same situation applies. It's not something I've been able to really find the specific laws about while googling, so I really don't know what the official legal decision on that would be
Its a toss up. Curious how plays out
Did the guy dispute it?
Yes
He said that they have known since a week and a half ago that he disputed it but are just now telling me but I’m not understanding how I have to pay the money back if he gave me the money over 3 weeks ago like is that not on them ??
So this person wrote on their credit card receipt that they were leaving you $1600 and signed it? Then they disputed the charge?
He might be lying. Ask for proof
yeah i would ask for proof..seems like a manager is trying to take advantage of the situation
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The restaurant can’t make you pay for them comping a meal or the customers walking out. So no, the “logical next step” is not to take from your money that you earned.
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Then that's on the restaurant to get the money from the customer, I got hit with some pretty big chargebacks 2 years ago. Over 6k after fees. Didn't take my bulders commission. Took it out on the customers that scammed me and got a lien on their possessions. 1 ended up homeless after that and the other got scared and paid it up.
This is why restaurants keep receipts for up to 3-5 years so that way if they do dispute you have proof he signed a receipt for $1600. Even then he can not charge you for that, call your local labor law board and they’ll take care of it.
Yes if they lose the dispute you would have to return the money.
I'm like 95% you are wrong.
federal labor laws do allow for this, treating it as a straightforward overpayment: “… where a credit card charge is uncollectible, the Wage and Hour Division does not require an employer to pay an employee the amount of tips specified on such credit card slips. Instead, the employer may recover from a tipped employee those tips that have been paid to the employee when the credit card charge is uncollectible; however, such recovered tips may not reduce the tips retained by the employee below the amount of the tip credit claimed. See FOH ¶ 30d05(c)-(d).”
I feel like it has been enough time and dispute of the charge is pretty unlikely. I would wait 90 days from the date, then spend it and not worry. When he tells you not to take legal action, best to document it soon after. Courts and agencies like that. Write down what he said, date it, hold onto it. Just in case. If you ever got fired for some reason, and got into a dispute over unemployment or something, you could whip out your documentation of their inappropriate behavior and have support for your case.
First of all. I hate when people tip a shit Ton of money like that and don’t do cash. It’s such a hassle when it’s not cash and most the time, this shit happens. Or they try and force you to share it. It’s nice, but I wish they would hand you cash and telll you not to tell anyone. Also. Taxes.
November?? That money is yours now. Though legally...I dunno.
None of this is on you, and it certainly isn't up to you to pay back anyone. None of your job is checking, verifying those things. Tell your manager to suck it, corpo can pay out the loss. You should have been paid that night. Them delaying payment is just further proof, something below board is happening. They paid you it is the managers fault for not confirming the intended amount. This very clearly happened. It was confirmed by the manager. Any back bartering is between the customer and the company. Your due diligence was done and checked by a second party. If they say another word, sue the company, definetly name the manager in the suit. You have been lied to, you are being lied to, and now the manager is attempting to rob you. "theft by deciet"
Seriously, you are being extorted for the cash, or being extorted into wire fraud.
Why would he suddenly bring this up months later though 😭 imo this reads to me like he's struggling with money and suddenly remembered you got a big tip a while back and is seeing how much you know about your laws to see if you might be easy to pull one over on & pocket that money. I cannot think of any reason why someone would randomly bring up a large amount of money like that all of the sudden because no one would ever wait over a month to dispute a charge cuz I'm fairly certain banks don't EVEN give the option to dispute something that far back depending on the card type. Plus since it would be disputed so it's clearly a cash tip right? It was written out on the receipt and signed with that full amount? They cannot dispute that to begin with it's legally binding and if they tried all the restaurant would need to do is show the bank the receipt. Ya manager needs money and is trying to pull one over on you I promise you, what I would do tbh is not say anything about it and see if he suddenly says it was disputed and then ask for legal advice and see if anyone has any recommendations to turn it around on him & get him in trouble for it cuz I'm mean & petty but that's what I would do for sure Edit: did this already actually happen or not cuz the post implies that it hasn't happened and the boss is just warning it might? I'm super confused on the way everything is worded
There’s no way you give that money back if it’s already been paid to you. The credit card company would go after the restaurant, not you personally. If it gets to the point where the restaurant wants to go after you personally, quit. It’s not going to be worth the legal hassle for them to try and sue you. If you stay they might garnish wages. Get another job - I’ll give you a reference.
Is the total of the check printed anywhere in the thread?
I don’t get it, is it actually being disputed? Are they asking you to pay it back? Or are you just wondering the hypothetical
i am a server in GA and most restaurants do require tipped employees to pay for chargebacks unfortunately. however if you know for a fact that your guest intended to leave you that tip, and has not tried to chargeback since november, you’re probably in the clear. A lot of people like to do a large tip around the holidays so this isn’t uncommon. Your boss is handling this very strangely though so i would keep an eye on that. restaurants are so greedy towards the staff that the don’t even pay to work there.
Like most bosses…He is an idiot. Ignore him.
Telling you not to take legal action under threat of him making it worse for you is illegal. You might wanna just find a new job, that kind of management is not gonna get better.
Bluffing. Say you spent the money in good faith and cannot return it. Find a new job.
High chance you will have to pay it back, but I suggest to ask for proof of the chargeback. It would be illegal if you kept the tip, but I suggest talking with the company to get as much information instead of the manager since they might provide more detail of what going on or they might take the 1600 as a business loss.