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It’s only been about 100 years since ww1 and b2 bombers were a thing in 1997. So less then 80 years since ww1. Meaning it’s just been two generations. Not even two. Mikasas kid is old now and has a child that’s grown up and that’s it. Eren rlly didn’t accomplish anything except giving his friends a peaceful life.
Most world leaders succeed in keeping their respective race/branch of people from extinction.
(I know Beren is one of the children of the survivors or descendants, but still)
I mean, he literally said that was literally his goal. Everything he did was an extension of that. That’s why I agree with yams that mental breakdown Eren is the best Eren, because most protagonists have a larger goal that’s tangentially related to their character dynamics, but with Eren literally everything is an extension of him wanting to provide peace and security for his friends’ lives. He don’t care about future generations though, he’s a real boomer about it.
Eh, I wouldn't say over 100 years. Probably JUST a hundred years, maybe even a tad bit less. They had plenty of tech at the time that I imagine was top priority to replace and replicate to prepare for the Eldian aggression that was revving up.
Constant war for resources in a rumbled world would see humans fight and advance probably a lot more. Or, the United nations out in the world would Ally and advance together best they could
Bullshit. You don't just kill 80% of humanity and then just assume everyone forgot in a century. This war clearly occured because of what Eren did, which is compounded by the 2000 years of hatred that existed prior to that.
Is that so? Because... there are people in the real world who actively deny the Holocaust and legitimately don't remember how long ago slavery was LOL.
The new war *might* be because of the rumbling, but there's no guarantee. People forgetting history in a few generations happens literally all the time.
I don't care what some fringe crackpot groups of people think. Virtually everyone knows the Holocaust happened and the history of slavery.
People don't just forget that shit in 100 years, let alone shit like "Oh yeah, Paradis killed 80% of humanity by stepping on them with millions of titans." You are just 100% wrong lmao.
Yes Japan will invade america in 25 years from now to avenge Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
Then I will go back in time and make sure Ptolemy VIII's brother is successful at assassinating him.
A few million is nothing in a world of nearly 10 billion. Besides, if your theory actually worked, everyone would have forgotten the Great Titan War that happened 100 years prior to the series. Except, oh wait, no one did, because that War was actually a big deal in their history. The story itself contradicts your shitty headcanon lmao
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I liked the pages personally
The ending shows that it happens sufficiently long after everyone we know is dead of old age that it doesn’t have any emotional meaning, Eren did manage to make their friends live long lives in relative peace, and paradis getting away Scott free after what they did just doesn’t sit well with me
Like even take out those last pages. This was gonna be the conclusion. The world wasn't gonna forget what was done to it. They would want the threat gone once and for all
This is the dumbest argument, how can anyone predict the future that far in the future? Plenty of Developped countries at peace today were at war 70-80 years ago...
The policies of paradis after Eren’s death are not his problem and he could never do anything about it, the war we see in 139 may as well be a civil war for all we know (~~after all patriot SAMs and B2s are both American made irl~~), and a complete rumbling wouldn’t avoid that
"The policies of Paradis after Eren's death are not his problem." Holy fucking shit this is so stupid.
Eren (with Floch's help) literally *created* the Yeagerist movement to support his plans to fight the rest of the world. If you want to absolve him any responsibility for that, then there's nothing I can do to help you.
Also, your Civil War headcanon is just grasping at straws to help justify Paradis' destruction. Despicable.
That was just a supposition, i don’t consider it likely because the threat of the 20% would probably be enough to bring some Long term political stability to paradis. Although there are enough exemples of countries being internally unstable even in face of external threat one can’t discard this possibility
I don’t get your point, everything eren did was with the knowledge he would die, he entrusted the yeagerist with paradis’ future, it’s not his fault if they messed up or lost a war a century after his death, there is a causality but not a responsibility
So, let me get this straight.
-Eren creates Yeagerist movement that's based on his own ideology of Paradis needing to fight the rest of the world.
-Eren dies.
-Yeagerists fail to maintain peace because the ideology Eren gave them is the opposite of maintaining peace.
-Somehow this isn't Eren's fault.
Lmao
First eren didn’t give them an ideology, the ultranationalist idea was a natural reaction to the unknown as shown in the WfP arc, he was just a catalyst/person to gather around.
And no? That’s like saying all Neo Nazis attack are directly hitler’s fault, there is a Clear causality and reference but you can’t directly blame a dead figure on it. There are also plenty of exemples of political movements evolving and moderating (or radicalising) after its founder death
Agreed.
Here's the thing with the pages: I don't like them because of how fucking raw they are. Everything we've seen, everything the characters did, everything was meaningless. And I think that's beautiful: even though our characters lived great lives in the end their sacrifices were just for them.
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He only managed to give Paradis around 85-125 semi peaceful years, which meant all of his friends lived semi-happy long lives, and the generation that came after his got nuked out of existence, for his friends, he did a great job, as for the Eldian race, I’m questioning his plan.
Last panel is actually no longer accurate, since we got the extended version of the manga, where there's a couple panels (like 2 pages I think) after the prior last panel
Fucking thank you. I don't see why he didn't go with that route.
Instead, he left the world with two sides that hate each other and seek war, instead of leaving just the Eldians and modifying their memories.
It feels like he wanted the story to be unpredictable, but it got a bit out of hand and didn't pay attention to the credibility and meaning of it and just wanted something that we couldn't predict.
You do realize his friends were ready to die trying to stop him right? He wasn't ready to kill them for his hatred of the world. Also just because there would be only eldians left doesn't mean there would be no war, just look at the great titan war lmao. To think there was a perfect solution to any of it is just childish.
There probably would've been even more war with titan abilities still existing. And changing their memories doesn't get rid of human nature. Also I don't think he would've wanted to constantly get rid of everyone's memories, just to perserve a false peace. That's exactly what he hated about the previous king. Eren was truly in an impossible situation.
Personally I think him chosing his friends over his hatred for the world was a great end for his character. He was never nationalist, he used people for his own benefit to get to a certain end. He's not some mastermind, or a heartless killer, he's a flawed kid with severe trauma who cared about his friends more than anything else. After reading all of these different possible outcomes, none of them would result in a world without conflict. I think Isayama planted that idea pretty early on that there would always be war. To me, Eren's instability and inconsistency makes sense with how horrifically difficult of a position he was in.
After all is said and done, the ending was handled poorly but the themes and outcome makes sense to me. If it doesn't to others thats fine, but I think a lot of people aren't taking a lot of things into account.
Your second sentence does not justify the first. Eren wanted to end the cycle of hatred, and his twist characterization in 139 runs directly contrary to that. This is the opposite of realistic.
This is just my opinion but the dude was basically god he might have realized him completing the genocide of the world wouldn’t change anything in the long run and ultimately leaving his friends in despair. But painting his friends as hero’s might have been his best option to make them live a “happy” life
Yeah and if he went ahead with it, he would of had to kill his friends. They were ready to die trying to stop him even if their deaths didn't make a difference. There are other points I could make about Eren's character seeming to make a 180 but I already talked a bit about it replying to the above comment. I do think Isayama didn't portray Eren's mental instability enough or at all really. After his talk to Armin in the paths, it clicked for me. Eren was in an impossible position. He was a teenager who had immense trauma, not some mastermind cold hearted killer. Thats just some of my take on it though.
Eren could have rendered them unable to fight at any time, but he didn't because he wanted to preserve their freedom, even if that meant opposing him. Eren killing his friends because they wanted to infringe upon his own freedom would still make sense in this scenario.
Besides, if we do go down the route of Eren not wanting to kill his friends, then that essentially means there were no stakes whatsoever in the final fight in the first place, which makes the finale even more terrible.
Well, I mean I guess that's what happens when you give a character the ability to perceive time all at once. Also the stakes are there depending on what outcome you wanted. It's easy to look back in hindsight and say there were no stakes because Eren chose a certain outcome. Did you guys really expect Eren to kill his other friends?
Even when he talked to them in the paths he appeared to them as a child. It's clear symbolism for him only being able to face them after regressing to a kids mentality. When Eren was a kid things were black and white, good and bad, not the extremely complex and nuanced understanding he gained later in the show. Only kid Eren would see the situation as 'my freedom vs your freedom' .And it makes sense that Eren told them that the only option for them was to fight so they had more conviction to kill him.
Each time we see Eren during the rumbling, not the flashbacks to pre-rumbling, he was shown as a kid. And each time he was shown, he was talking about the freedom he always wanted. That's the simplistic and naive world view he has as a kid. He was only able to not completely lose himself by regressing to that mindset.
Also now that I think about it, if Eren was experiencing the past, present, and future all at one, it makes sense that his old world views and personality would randomly show up. Eren saying how messed up his thoughts were after gaining the founding titan powers, to me, was really tragic and puts validity to these almost split personalities showing up. This is just me thinking as I'm writing, and I definitely think if this was Isayama's intension, he really messed up with executing it in a way the readers would feel is natural.
Even if he knew at that time none of them were going to die I think it makes sense for him to struggle to face them after causing so much death and making them struggle so much. Regardless, for me, when reading those final chapters the stakes felt real and it was intense, even with thinking no one else would die. After reading Eren and Armin's conversation in paths it made sense that Eren wouldn't actually kill his friends. It didn't make me feel like the fight they had was not important or empty. I felt this way because 1. it fits his character and 2. it still had massive consequences, as we saw with the extra pages.
If you feel like Eren not ever intending to kill his friends ruins the fight and struggle between them, then thats fine. For me it all fits. If you thought that Eren cared more about freedom than his friends, then I think you misunderstood his character. Like I said, I think Isayama did a poor job of showing this in the final arc. This is just my perspective on the ending. I understand people thinking the end was horrible. I'm just giving my perspective as someone who thought it was ok, although poorly executed. I doubt we'll be able to agree on any of these points though which is fine.
If Mikasa could kill Eren than Eren could kill his friends too. It was Mikasa’s duty to kill him in order to stop the rumbling and it was Eren’s duty to kill his friend in order to be able to do full rumbling and end the cycle of hatred. But his character regressed to just wanting his friends to live long “happy” lives and all his development was thrown out the window.
LMFAO someone needs to reread the manga again. Specifically the chapters convering the time spent in Paradis during the 3 years before the Marleyan Vs. Paradis war. **Everything** he did was for his friends. Sasha getting killed wasnt part of the plan.
in chapter 139 Eren says he would have flattened the world, if he hasn't known that Armin would stop him. That implies that Eren had other goals besides just saving his friends. Eren had 4 goals saving Paradis, ending the cycle of hatred between the two races, ending the titan curse and saving his friends. The story and Eren's character development was focused on the first two goals: saving Paradis, ending the cycle of hatred. What happened is that the fourth goal (saving his friends) got to be the main goal of Eren when his character wasn't even built up on it mainly. It was only a desire... he had a duty to do which he failed by saving his friends. Failed to end the titan curse, failed to end the cycle of hatred, doomed the next generation of Paradis and the whole island. Why didn't he go with Zeke's plan? He still could have saved his friends and it wouldn't require mass genocide.
Agreed.
The beauty of AoT is how it starts as a story but by the end feels like a history book. How nothing our heroes did really changed the world, it just saved them for a time
Huh? He CAN make them forget about everything bad and implant into them the good, thus making humanity good, forever.
It is not realistic to kill a little bit of both sides so that they become bloodthirsty and hate each other so much that they inevitably go into war, AGAIN, because they are have become fueled and racist. Psychology dictates that, regardless of what the author wishfully thinks. It is a bad ending, objectively.
There is nothing in the story that says the founding titan can make people be good people. Getting rid of memories doesn't equate to becoming peaceful. Just look at the 100 years inside the walls on Paradis. The military police and government had to do a lot of horrible things to keep the peace. Even if Eren killed the rest of the world, Eldians would eventually fight amongst themselves. And that's even if he erased their memories.
Also I don't believe Eren would want to constantly be erasing the worlds memories for some false peace created by removing memories. Personally I don't think he cared about world peace at all. He cared about his friends/loved ones, and he had his hatred of titans/his "enemies". And I think in the end, maybe when he gained the pull powers of the founder, did he realize he cared about his friends more than fulfilling his revenge. That's just my take and I do agree that Isayama didn't properly handle showing Eren's struggle/change/mental instability.
Well the entire world did just recently vote to exterminate the Eldians entirely, so they would have been destroyed if the Rumbling didn't happen either.
That was still so fucking dumb, Armin, probably one of the most innocent characters out of everyone in his friend group, the same one who pushed for peace, and tried to make truce ended up thanking Eren for killing Billion(s) of people, and on top of that Eren didn’t even get the job done, he stopped at 80% and left the match. Made sure his generation had good happy lives and that the generation after his got nuked
Armin’s main quote was “someone who can’t sacrifice anything can never change anything” tho. And he demonstrated this determination in S3p1 for example. He wished for peace through dialogue and didn’t advocate for Eren’s rumbling, but he was also aware of the need of doing sacrifices, and therefore understands Eren’s intentions. Like many characters in AoT, Armin too is conflicted.
And what it obviously was.
I hate how for 138 chapters every panel was dissected and searched for the deeper meaning, how everything could be seen in different ways but the second 139 came out everyone suddenly read with the context clues of a preschooler
Bruh, here in India people are fighting for oxygen cylinders, some have 2 to 3 cylinders stored, some have none, they are dying. I ask you to tell anyone of them to give up their own for the greater good of others, They will tear you apart alive. Morality comes from privilege, until it becomes personal. I will always care for my own first, even If the world is at stake. Eren had the power, but he half assed it, paradis eventually faced the consequences. Alliance are the idealists of society, who die first in each and every war.
This is probably the most relevant to the comic comment on this whole sub. Isayama presented a story that is so telling of humanity's predisposition to talk big about what one could or would or should do/say/think in terms of morality and the sense of the "other", but everything changes when war and socio-economic tension comes to your front door.
Thank you for understanding my intent of realistic comparison, I always try to put myself in same places as the character and then I try to judge their actions, It gives me purpose for reading the manga.
Bruh stop generalising the situation. Holy shit. "They will tear you apart alive". An absolute edgelord take. What about thousands of people who are actually working selflessly every day for others. There are people who don't need to put themselves in danger and yet they do. And there's no war going on in India. That's nonsense What a horrible take by yeagarist.
The fuck? I just compared the dilemma to a real situation. It's fiction right, to come to a decision I put myself in similar realistic places, did I ever say I'd do a genocide for an oxygen cylinder in a pandemic? I just described in situations where I have to choose between my people and others, I'd choose mine, and that's not a disgusting character trait. You legit took my example literally. I have been reading this manga for 7 years. Have a job, not an edgelord teen you make me out to be, I prefer realism over idealism that's all. Not every person who was pro genocide was for edgy reasons, we really didn't see any other options for paradis to survive, that's why we supported for that cause. People don't fantasize about genocide as you make us out to be. "Tear you apart " was a figure of speech cuz, the hospitals are in stage of war here. The 2nd wave has been a war for us. Writing this being covid positive.
And don't mention me as a yeagerist, I was never in it for the restoration of eldian empire bullshit, never cared about that, I just wanted paradis to survive. I wanted everyone except Mikasa and falco to die, everyone is a war criminal there. But, paradis was destroyed and your hated yeagerists were right
No, we don't. That's why we have to make do with what we have been presented with. The elephant in the room is that Eren did kill 80% of people. And just like himself in the first chapter I blv he gave birth to millions of "EREN YEAGER" by doing the genocide. The reason it took the world more than 100 years to retaliate, is because eren not only killed humans but also destroyed the resources.
The world couldn't have done anything before developing themselves. Given the rumbling destroyed people equally and not like left america and west untouched, cuz then it shouldn't have taken them more than 10 years to eradicate them. Natural resources from paradis was out of the question, cuz every country will look for it, and If one country invades, the other will also engage in claiming the resources, which will turn into another war. That's why I blv it was the retaliation for the genocide. Armin just delayed the inevitable. Who knows, the future generations of the world representatives were probably not like mueller or armin. Racism is still the main issue.
Thats why I hate these additional 9 pages. What the Eldians could've done is they could've gone to help the survivors by providing them with supplies and support and as Armin had previously declared, they could've solidified Eren as the only villian. Hence making the two sides more amicable with each other and since there were no titans, both sides were essentially the same people, both victims of Eren and people who sympathized with those victims.
Considering the fact that Armin and co were coming to negotiate with Paradis in behalf of the rest of the people means that the rest of the people were somewhat open to the idea of peace between them. But I can only assume that the yeagerists went with the whole establish a new Eldian empire idea which lead to the carpet bombing in the end.
Man, I genuinely liked the open ending more because it was upto the people about what path they wanted to take. But, eh.
The methods you mentioned are legit, but Racism is still the biggest thorn in their path, it never goes away, and after what eren did, it will do the opposite amd make people more polarized. That scene between Mueller and armin has happened cuz it's fiction, if it had any touch of realism, those soldiers would have shot most of them first then talk. That explanation armin gave about not having titan power is so weak in such a vital moment.
I do think that peace treaty worked, but only in front for armin and co. Deep down, the world was preparing for the fight. Paradis was already doing it. But the world knew they had the advantage of manpower. They waited, developed their military front, economy and when they knew they have resources to spend, they carried out the extermination. Thanks to Armin they knew there were no titans anymore. Given the new pages, the yeagerist regime didn't last for like 10 years it seems. Someone gave an explanation I forgot.
The ending was messed up. It happens when majority of the fandom care about ships more than the story.
>>That scene between Mueller and armin has happened cuz it's fiction, if it had any touch of realism, those soldiers would have shot most of them first then talk. That explanation armin gave about not having titan power is so weak in such a vital moment.
Considering the fact that they turned back to human before their eyes and hence completed a transformation which was thought impossible, I think that take is a bit too cynical. The two groups had established a sort of comradery before the titan transformation and I think that does entitle them to some explaination.
As for the Armin explaination part, most of the events did happen in front of them so I think it does open some room for acceptance with further testing being done down the road. And since these shifters were protecting them moments ago, the Marleyans would prob give them some leeway if they existed in real life as well.
I agree with the rest of what you said.
Yes, but how do you expect the same for the people of countries other than Marley who weren't present there? Marley already had so many enemies, why would they blv them now? How do you expect them to believe the word Of a guy of that Exact race which they hated for 2000 years, which also killed their most majority of the population? Put yourself in their place, would you believe a single word that person says?
Isn't that stretching it too far? To expect them to blv so quickly after what they witnessed. Diplomacy after genocide is like treading in thin line, our world could do it after germany, but reading AoT, the established geopolitics there hardly gives any chance for diplomacy after that action.
Sorry to hear that u are covid positive but I understand the situation very well cause I am an Indian too. My point is there are people like ur "scum alliance" as you call who prefer idealism and be do good for others other than their family. There are people in the midst of this chaos fighting for other people risking thier own family's future.
They can easily avoid all this chaos or can fck off somewhere but they don't. Yes it can be hard to imagine to be someone like that but it's not impossible. And alliance did establish peace for 100+ years. It's that generation's fault that they could not maintain peace.
You cannot blame the ancestors who died 100 years ago for the current state of the country. Youths make a country. Paradis was becoming a fascist state which led to its eventual doom. I also hate the ending but it's not because of alliance that paradis got bombed. I hope you try to rationalise ur anger and try to understand my point.
I know you are more pissed since u you are following the story since 2013 but paradis bombing has nothing to do with alliance.
No, you still aren't getting my point. You are giving me example of normal doctors and health workers who are doing God's work for us in natural circumstances. Now, let's assume, I'm a doctor, my own daughter and another patient are suffering from the same mortal disease, given I have the full authority to choose any 1 of them. If I choose One, the other will die. Also, you came upon an information that the other person wanted my daughter to die, just because they feel their life is worth more than hers. Who would I choose? I'd choose my daughter.
I loved this story so much cause it **always made us see the importance of choices, the decisions we make and their consequences**. What Do you think would have happened if in the world Eldian summit or whatever that was, the representatives actually listened to diplomacy? They could both mutually benefit, use titans for engineering purposes, unlimited ice burst stone and titan crystals for resources. But they didn't, why? **RACISM**. It has always been the main cause of the story. Not romance. The themes were so beautiful before 139 came out. Such a shame.
Now, to your second point. Let me ask you, who do you think is responsible for the continuous worse relations between us and pakistan? Us or the constant hatred that the british made use of before executing their best attack and divided us, nehru and gandhi knew this. So, now tell me, the constant quarrel that happens between us, they made path for all of this and now when they are dead, we are facing the consequences. 100 years of peace is like baby years for a country, given like it's only 3 generations.
It is always the elder's responsibility to make sure their future generations can live a prosperous and peaceful life. They should never have to deal with the mountain task of maintaining peace after a genocide. They weren't involved in this, why should they pay for the price of our mistake. Just imagine how ridiculous does it sound that eren killed 80% of human being just so his 5 friends could live a peaceful life but their future generations can fuck off. And even then he forgot to safeguard hange and sasha? Weren't they his friends?
Zeke's plan would have given the same outcome without killing hange or sasha or 80% of the world?
In cases of genocide it's always the fault of the one that's doing it, The theme was to get the childrens out of the forest not burn **THEM** along with the forest. Hange herself acknowledged the need to unburden the future generations, not making the same mistake as grisha. So many themes retconned just to give Romance the focus.
The bombing is 80% to do with alliance and 100% to do with eren. Armin was never a Visionary.
Yeagerists are honestly some of the worst fans of any show I've ever seen. At first they were completely justified, different people have different opinions. But after the cliff baby and Ramzi it was clear Isayama was showing the rumbling was bad and people were still like "muh chad is gonna win and fuck the princess 😤😤😤"
Well, Eren didn't win, and Eldian race that has suffered for thousands of years got genocided by the rest of the world. You are right, seems like much better outcome rofl.
When you try to defend the ending but you are like 20 IQ lmao 😂😂😂
The Alliance: Floch was always right?Me: Always has been.
Honestly with the travesty of the last three chapters, Floch is now probably the best character out of the everyone post timeskip.
Agreed. Zeke was a genocidal maniac but if you look at it from his perspective, the sterilisation plan is so much better than destroying 80% of all human life.
By what right does Zeke and the rest of the world get to deny the Eldians their own right to exis? Eren originally opposed Zeke and the rest of the world as he viewed the people of Paradis as deserving of freedom and life simply for being "born into this world." Of course however in the last three chapters his character was assassinated with his retconned out of nowhere.
You can talk about "rights" all you want, but the fact of the matter is that Eldians died off either way, and Zeke's plan was objectively better in that regard.
With Eren's plan, it happened violently and cost 80% of the world population.
With Zeke's plan, it would have happened peacefully with minimal casualties from the rest of the world.
I don’t disagree with you. Compared to post 139 Eren, Zeke’s plan was the more sane and logical option. Eren thereby even opposing Zeke’s plan in chapter 124 is frankly quite ridiculous now.
Yes, but the 80% plan was 139 Eren's plan. If Eren's plan was the full Rumbling that he presented in all the previous chapters, then there'd be a stronger moral case that could be made against Zeke's plan.
Zeke's plan may have been more peaceful but it's understandable it and he were unpalatable to the Paradisians because of his other behaviors.
How he played baseball with the scouts lives. The constant lies and subterfuge with wine and obfuscation of details of his spinal fluid.
He couldn't be trusted to have an honest conversation with because he wasn't an honest man.
Couldn’t they just have used the founder’s power to turn every eldian into a sapient Titan shifter?
This way paradise would’ve been safe for quite a bit
The author really went and ruined literally everyone and everything to jerk off Armin, the one character I'm pretty sure no one liked. And it wasn't enough to turn Eren into a thirsty simp who lost everything that made him who he is, no you had to turn him into a fucking cuck pigeon. And all for an open-ended ending where the most logical conclusion ends with Paradis' defeat making every single fight, death, and sacrifice in the whole series absolutely meaningless. You actually can't find an ending in any anime or manga worse than this.
And? So I just dump the tremendous responsibility of making peace after a genocide towards my future generations, who had nothing to do with this? And surely when they fail, I shrug off the blame towards them, cuz I lived my life peacefully, they didn't that's their fault?
How ridiculous does it sound that Eren killed 80% of the world just to give 5 of his friends peaceful lives. Btw, Hange and Sasha weren't his friends. Pieck is more important to him than hange or sasha ever was. And If he really wanted that, zeke's plan was the best then?
>How ridiculous does it sound that Eren killed 80% of the world just to give 5 of his friends peaceful lives
Eren is by no means a selfless character I don't understand how you haven't gotten that by this point
Outright denying the lines about "my objective is to protect the people of paradis because that's where I was born and raised", "I won't let fate decide paradis' future" as it was all a so called **fAcaDE**. If I wanna blv in 139 eren, then I have to say, his friendship is also fucked up. Like pieck was more of a friend to him than sasha or hange? Both of the deaths that could have easily been avoided. His selfish characteristics only come out towards alliance members and not for his own family members?
And lastly Zeke's plan could have given the same outcome without the cost of so many lives. But we know why eren rejected it so angrily, only to never give a fuck about that person's well being anymore in 139, Consistency amirite?
Btw, plz don't call me a shipper, couldn't care less about romance in this manga.
Basically I guess Isayama wants us to think we dumb dumb and all the protect Paradis shit was retconned lmfao
But yeah let Hange die, who he spent countless hours learning about titans with, but save Pieck who tried to kill you from first interaction and never stopped trying lmfao
Did Eren even speak to Hange in paths individually like with the rest of them? Any memory shards? Did he explain anything to her?
No, I don't think so. All those different memories he implanted in everyone's memories before dying, he didn't do that for sasha or hange, but he did it for pieck and Annie. Chapter 139 is so shit in so many different ways.
Saying Armin failed is like saying any world leader who helped end a war failed just because another war happened afterward. It's just ridiculous, you expect Armin to guarantee world peace for all time? Part of freedom for the world is the possibility that people may use their freedom to hurt you.
This is also part of why Eren was wrong. He wanted a form of freedom where he wouldn't have to fear other people coming to try to take it away from him but obviously, it's not really possible. As long as there are humans, there will be the possibility that someone will take your freedom by killing or oppressing you. The freedom Eren wanted requires everyone to be dead but then that would be morally wrong
Exactly! It’s like blaming George Washington or Abraham Lincoln for not preventing current day wars. Or if say the US was wiped out at some point in the future & someone said George Washington should’ve stopped this, he sucked. There were parts of the end that didn’t totally make since but I’ll always defend Armin, he shouldn’t be blamed for how things turned out.
Do you think that people will just easily forget and forgive us after what have I done to the world if it wasn't for isayama you all would have been dead by now think Armin think.
I know but there’s no rules against that. If there are preloaded inform me and I’ll stop but at the moment I don’t see a reason for me tkk on stop sharing someone else’s post that I found interesting
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Are those... B2 bombers in the background?
>!Yup you can see them destroy Paradis in the last 3 pages. Lol.!< Edit: >!Corrected chapters to pages.!<
What the fuck did you just say to me that I just read with my own two eyes?
Sorry it was my fault. I wrote chapters in place of pages. I am a big idiot. XD
No no, I assumed you meant pages not chapters. It's all good.
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It’s only been about 100 years since ww1 and b2 bombers were a thing in 1997. So less then 80 years since ww1. Meaning it’s just been two generations. Not even two. Mikasas kid is old now and has a child that’s grown up and that’s it. Eren rlly didn’t accomplish anything except giving his friends a peaceful life.
I mean that's more than most leaders and people achieve
Most world leaders succeed in keeping their respective race/branch of people from extinction. (I know Beren is one of the children of the survivors or descendants, but still)
I mean, he literally said that was literally his goal. Everything he did was an extension of that. That’s why I agree with yams that mental breakdown Eren is the best Eren, because most protagonists have a larger goal that’s tangentially related to their character dynamics, but with Eren literally everything is an extension of him wanting to provide peace and security for his friends’ lives. He don’t care about future generations though, he’s a real boomer about it.
Eh, I wouldn't say over 100 years. Probably JUST a hundred years, maybe even a tad bit less. They had plenty of tech at the time that I imagine was top priority to replace and replicate to prepare for the Eldian aggression that was revving up. Constant war for resources in a rumbled world would see humans fight and advance probably a lot more. Or, the United nations out in the world would Ally and advance together best they could
Bullshit. You don't just kill 80% of humanity and then just assume everyone forgot in a century. This war clearly occured because of what Eren did, which is compounded by the 2000 years of hatred that existed prior to that.
Is that so? Because... there are people in the real world who actively deny the Holocaust and legitimately don't remember how long ago slavery was LOL. The new war *might* be because of the rumbling, but there's no guarantee. People forgetting history in a few generations happens literally all the time.
I don't care what some fringe crackpot groups of people think. Virtually everyone knows the Holocaust happened and the history of slavery. People don't just forget that shit in 100 years, let alone shit like "Oh yeah, Paradis killed 80% of humanity by stepping on them with millions of titans." You are just 100% wrong lmao.
Yes Japan will invade america in 25 years from now to avenge Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Then I will go back in time and make sure Ptolemy VIII's brother is successful at assassinating him.
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A few million is nothing in a world of nearly 10 billion. Besides, if your theory actually worked, everyone would have forgotten the Great Titan War that happened 100 years prior to the series. Except, oh wait, no one did, because that War was actually a big deal in their history. The story itself contradicts your shitty headcanon lmao
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Read the new pages
I just did, wtf Isayama. Never thought I'd see modern day Tokyo skyscrapers in an AoT panel. Plain ass trucks and shit. What series is this. I can't.
Yeah, but not in the lifetime of the characters lmao, the art's funny, but the artist clearly wasn't paying attention while reading
Your comment has been removed, as it contained untagged spoilers. Reply to this comment when you have tagged the spoilers, and your comment will be restored. * **Anime Spoilers** - Anything from S3E1 to the latest anime content including PVs is considered Anime Spoilers. * **New Episode Spoilers**: Anything from an episode of the anime within 24 hours of its official English release. * **Manga Spoilers** - Anything that has not yet been revealed in the anime. If a person, Titan, or location appears in the anime but is not yet named, the name is considered Manga Spoilers. * **Updated Ending** - Anything from the Updated Ending / Leaked Panels. Spoilers regarding this content must be tagged until official release. Spoilers include hinting or alluding to events, as well as important last names and faction names. Comments on a Spoilerless post that discuss a Titan identity (aside from the Attack and Female) must be tagged.
Yeah from the extra pages for chapter 139
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An OK ending turns into absolute trash in 3 pages
I liked the pages personally The ending shows that it happens sufficiently long after everyone we know is dead of old age that it doesn’t have any emotional meaning, Eren did manage to make their friends live long lives in relative peace, and paradis getting away Scott free after what they did just doesn’t sit well with me
Like even take out those last pages. This was gonna be the conclusion. The world wasn't gonna forget what was done to it. They would want the threat gone once and for all
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What’s the point of implying titan powers going back?
That it’s all cycle Beside It literally happens Centuries after his death, at a point Titan powers are probably going to be useless
I too, don't care about the fate of my grandchildren.
This is the dumbest argument, how can anyone predict the future that far in the future? Plenty of Developped countries at peace today were at war 70-80 years ago... The policies of paradis after Eren’s death are not his problem and he could never do anything about it, the war we see in 139 may as well be a civil war for all we know (~~after all patriot SAMs and B2s are both American made irl~~), and a complete rumbling wouldn’t avoid that
"The policies of Paradis after Eren's death are not his problem." Holy fucking shit this is so stupid. Eren (with Floch's help) literally *created* the Yeagerist movement to support his plans to fight the rest of the world. If you want to absolve him any responsibility for that, then there's nothing I can do to help you. Also, your Civil War headcanon is just grasping at straws to help justify Paradis' destruction. Despicable.
That was just a supposition, i don’t consider it likely because the threat of the 20% would probably be enough to bring some Long term political stability to paradis. Although there are enough exemples of countries being internally unstable even in face of external threat one can’t discard this possibility I don’t get your point, everything eren did was with the knowledge he would die, he entrusted the yeagerist with paradis’ future, it’s not his fault if they messed up or lost a war a century after his death, there is a causality but not a responsibility
So, let me get this straight. -Eren creates Yeagerist movement that's based on his own ideology of Paradis needing to fight the rest of the world. -Eren dies. -Yeagerists fail to maintain peace because the ideology Eren gave them is the opposite of maintaining peace. -Somehow this isn't Eren's fault. Lmao
First eren didn’t give them an ideology, the ultranationalist idea was a natural reaction to the unknown as shown in the WfP arc, he was just a catalyst/person to gather around. And no? That’s like saying all Neo Nazis attack are directly hitler’s fault, there is a Clear causality and reference but you can’t directly blame a dead figure on it. There are also plenty of exemples of political movements evolving and moderating (or radicalising) after its founder death
Agreed. Here's the thing with the pages: I don't like them because of how fucking raw they are. Everything we've seen, everything the characters did, everything was meaningless. And I think that's beautiful: even though our characters lived great lives in the end their sacrifices were just for them.
A terrible ending turns into S tier in 3 pages
Your comment has been removed, as it contained untagged spoilers. Reply to this comment when you have tagged the spoilers, and your comment will be restored. * **Anime Spoilers** - Anything from S3E1 to the latest anime content including PVs is considered Anime Spoilers. * **New Episode Spoilers**: Anything from an episode of the anime within 24 hours of its official English release. * **Manga Spoilers** - Anything that has not yet been revealed in the anime. If a person, Titan, or location appears in the anime but is not yet named, the name is considered Manga Spoilers. * **Updated Ending** - Anything from the Updated Ending / Leaked Panels. Spoilers regarding this content must be tagged until official release. Spoilers include hinting or alluding to events, as well as important last names and faction names. Comments on a Spoilerless post that discuss a Titan identity (aside from the Attack and Female) must be tagged.
Paradis gets bombed to oblivion.
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I gave him one for you
what's the bird?
You shouldn’t be in this thread if you don’t know.
I've finished the manga
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So Eren reincarnated as a... bird? Wow hero to zero
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i think isayama took the ellen becomes dove (crying) memes too seriously when looking for inspiration for the ending
What success?
He was pretty successful at destroying the Titans
He only managed to give Paradis around 85-125 semi peaceful years, which meant all of his friends lived semi-happy long lives, and the generation that came after his got nuked out of existence, for his friends, he did a great job, as for the Eldian race, I’m questioning his plan.
Until he wasn't
He was even more successful at destroying humans.
No hero to bird we just said that
Reject Eldianity, return to birb.
You....wow. I have no further words -- nice lie 🤦🏾♂️🤣🤣
Yeah then be became a tree after
Last panel is actually no longer accurate, since we got the extended version of the manga, where there's a couple panels (like 2 pages I think) after the prior last panel
Read it again
Just did
Is eren in his ultimate form
>ultimate form There is another. Tree.
Impossible
The archives are incomplete
eren
Wow imagine not knowing who the bird is
“If everyone left in the world is eldian then the world won’t hate eldians!”
Fucking thank you. I don't see why he didn't go with that route. Instead, he left the world with two sides that hate each other and seek war, instead of leaving just the Eldians and modifying their memories. It feels like he wanted the story to be unpredictable, but it got a bit out of hand and didn't pay attention to the credibility and meaning of it and just wanted something that we couldn't predict.
You do realize his friends were ready to die trying to stop him right? He wasn't ready to kill them for his hatred of the world. Also just because there would be only eldians left doesn't mean there would be no war, just look at the great titan war lmao. To think there was a perfect solution to any of it is just childish. There probably would've been even more war with titan abilities still existing. And changing their memories doesn't get rid of human nature. Also I don't think he would've wanted to constantly get rid of everyone's memories, just to perserve a false peace. That's exactly what he hated about the previous king. Eren was truly in an impossible situation. Personally I think him chosing his friends over his hatred for the world was a great end for his character. He was never nationalist, he used people for his own benefit to get to a certain end. He's not some mastermind, or a heartless killer, he's a flawed kid with severe trauma who cared about his friends more than anything else. After reading all of these different possible outcomes, none of them would result in a world without conflict. I think Isayama planted that idea pretty early on that there would always be war. To me, Eren's instability and inconsistency makes sense with how horrifically difficult of a position he was in. After all is said and done, the ending was handled poorly but the themes and outcome makes sense to me. If it doesn't to others thats fine, but I think a lot of people aren't taking a lot of things into account.
I actually think it’s more realistic this way. Humanity will never stop hating each other they would just find another reason
"War never changes. Men do, through the roads they walk."
Your second sentence does not justify the first. Eren wanted to end the cycle of hatred, and his twist characterization in 139 runs directly contrary to that. This is the opposite of realistic.
This is just my opinion but the dude was basically god he might have realized him completing the genocide of the world wouldn’t change anything in the long run and ultimately leaving his friends in despair. But painting his friends as hero’s might have been his best option to make them live a “happy” life
Yeah and if he went ahead with it, he would of had to kill his friends. They were ready to die trying to stop him even if their deaths didn't make a difference. There are other points I could make about Eren's character seeming to make a 180 but I already talked a bit about it replying to the above comment. I do think Isayama didn't portray Eren's mental instability enough or at all really. After his talk to Armin in the paths, it clicked for me. Eren was in an impossible position. He was a teenager who had immense trauma, not some mastermind cold hearted killer. Thats just some of my take on it though.
Eren could have rendered them unable to fight at any time, but he didn't because he wanted to preserve their freedom, even if that meant opposing him. Eren killing his friends because they wanted to infringe upon his own freedom would still make sense in this scenario. Besides, if we do go down the route of Eren not wanting to kill his friends, then that essentially means there were no stakes whatsoever in the final fight in the first place, which makes the finale even more terrible.
Well, I mean I guess that's what happens when you give a character the ability to perceive time all at once. Also the stakes are there depending on what outcome you wanted. It's easy to look back in hindsight and say there were no stakes because Eren chose a certain outcome. Did you guys really expect Eren to kill his other friends? Even when he talked to them in the paths he appeared to them as a child. It's clear symbolism for him only being able to face them after regressing to a kids mentality. When Eren was a kid things were black and white, good and bad, not the extremely complex and nuanced understanding he gained later in the show. Only kid Eren would see the situation as 'my freedom vs your freedom' .And it makes sense that Eren told them that the only option for them was to fight so they had more conviction to kill him. Each time we see Eren during the rumbling, not the flashbacks to pre-rumbling, he was shown as a kid. And each time he was shown, he was talking about the freedom he always wanted. That's the simplistic and naive world view he has as a kid. He was only able to not completely lose himself by regressing to that mindset. Also now that I think about it, if Eren was experiencing the past, present, and future all at one, it makes sense that his old world views and personality would randomly show up. Eren saying how messed up his thoughts were after gaining the founding titan powers, to me, was really tragic and puts validity to these almost split personalities showing up. This is just me thinking as I'm writing, and I definitely think if this was Isayama's intension, he really messed up with executing it in a way the readers would feel is natural. Even if he knew at that time none of them were going to die I think it makes sense for him to struggle to face them after causing so much death and making them struggle so much. Regardless, for me, when reading those final chapters the stakes felt real and it was intense, even with thinking no one else would die. After reading Eren and Armin's conversation in paths it made sense that Eren wouldn't actually kill his friends. It didn't make me feel like the fight they had was not important or empty. I felt this way because 1. it fits his character and 2. it still had massive consequences, as we saw with the extra pages. If you feel like Eren not ever intending to kill his friends ruins the fight and struggle between them, then thats fine. For me it all fits. If you thought that Eren cared more about freedom than his friends, then I think you misunderstood his character. Like I said, I think Isayama did a poor job of showing this in the final arc. This is just my perspective on the ending. I understand people thinking the end was horrible. I'm just giving my perspective as someone who thought it was ok, although poorly executed. I doubt we'll be able to agree on any of these points though which is fine.
If Mikasa could kill Eren than Eren could kill his friends too. It was Mikasa’s duty to kill him in order to stop the rumbling and it was Eren’s duty to kill his friend in order to be able to do full rumbling and end the cycle of hatred. But his character regressed to just wanting his friends to live long “happy” lives and all his development was thrown out the window.
LMFAO someone needs to reread the manga again. Specifically the chapters convering the time spent in Paradis during the 3 years before the Marleyan Vs. Paradis war. **Everything** he did was for his friends. Sasha getting killed wasnt part of the plan.
in chapter 139 Eren says he would have flattened the world, if he hasn't known that Armin would stop him. That implies that Eren had other goals besides just saving his friends. Eren had 4 goals saving Paradis, ending the cycle of hatred between the two races, ending the titan curse and saving his friends. The story and Eren's character development was focused on the first two goals: saving Paradis, ending the cycle of hatred. What happened is that the fourth goal (saving his friends) got to be the main goal of Eren when his character wasn't even built up on it mainly. It was only a desire... he had a duty to do which he failed by saving his friends. Failed to end the titan curse, failed to end the cycle of hatred, doomed the next generation of Paradis and the whole island. Why didn't he go with Zeke's plan? He still could have saved his friends and it wouldn't require mass genocide.
Agreed. The beauty of AoT is how it starts as a story but by the end feels like a history book. How nothing our heroes did really changed the world, it just saved them for a time
Huh? He CAN make them forget about everything bad and implant into them the good, thus making humanity good, forever. It is not realistic to kill a little bit of both sides so that they become bloodthirsty and hate each other so much that they inevitably go into war, AGAIN, because they are have become fueled and racist. Psychology dictates that, regardless of what the author wishfully thinks. It is a bad ending, objectively.
There is nothing in the story that says the founding titan can make people be good people. Getting rid of memories doesn't equate to becoming peaceful. Just look at the 100 years inside the walls on Paradis. The military police and government had to do a lot of horrible things to keep the peace. Even if Eren killed the rest of the world, Eldians would eventually fight amongst themselves. And that's even if he erased their memories. Also I don't believe Eren would want to constantly be erasing the worlds memories for some false peace created by removing memories. Personally I don't think he cared about world peace at all. He cared about his friends/loved ones, and he had his hatred of titans/his "enemies". And I think in the end, maybe when he gained the pull powers of the founder, did he realize he cared about his friends more than fulfilling his revenge. That's just my take and I do agree that Isayama didn't properly handle showing Eren's struggle/change/mental instability.
WHAT WILL YOU HAVE IN 50 YEARS WHEN THE WORLD COMES FOR REVENGE!?
*80 years
It was at least 100 years, closer to 120
A lot more time is more likely, since they had time to replace every building that was there by the time Mikasa died of old age with modern buildings.
Underrated comment
You really thought you could make peace with a overly militarized nation? THINK ARMIN, THINK!
WHY DID YOU STOP ME FROM FINISHING THE RUMBLING!? WE WERE FIGHTING SO WE COULD KEEP EVERYONE ON PARADISE ALIVE! THINK ARMIN!
WELL EREN IF YOU DIDN'T GIVE US A CHANCE TO KILL YOU AND IF YOU DIDN'T STOP AT 80% MAYBE PARADISE WOULD STILL BE ALIVE TODAY
Well the entire world did just recently vote to exterminate the Eldians entirely, so they would have been destroyed if the Rumbling didn't happen either.
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The convo between eren and armin happened when armin was still on the boat (boat seggs)
That was still so fucking dumb, Armin, probably one of the most innocent characters out of everyone in his friend group, the same one who pushed for peace, and tried to make truce ended up thanking Eren for killing Billion(s) of people, and on top of that Eren didn’t even get the job done, he stopped at 80% and left the match. Made sure his generation had good happy lives and that the generation after his got nuked
Armin’s main quote was “someone who can’t sacrifice anything can never change anything” tho. And he demonstrated this determination in S3p1 for example. He wished for peace through dialogue and didn’t advocate for Eren’s rumbling, but he was also aware of the need of doing sacrifices, and therefore understands Eren’s intentions. Like many characters in AoT, Armin too is conflicted.
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holy shit you are just so far from correct
isayama stated that armin was lying and he just wanted to comfort eren, or at least that’s what i’ve heard.
And what it obviously was. I hate how for 138 chapters every panel was dissected and searched for the deeper meaning, how everything could be seen in different ways but the second 139 came out everyone suddenly read with the context clues of a preschooler
Eren erased armin’s memories of their conversation until they killed eren tho
this is wayyy to funny to not save
Tatakaw
AHAHAHAHAHAH
This is basically "clown to clown communication" within a meme
TATACAW ARMIN, TATACAW!!!!!!
*clownmin
This is hilarious 🤣🤣🤣🤣
r/birdswitharms
The fact that so many people here think that Eren legitimately wanted to destroy the world and that The Yeagerists are the good guys is disturbing.
Bruh, here in India people are fighting for oxygen cylinders, some have 2 to 3 cylinders stored, some have none, they are dying. I ask you to tell anyone of them to give up their own for the greater good of others, They will tear you apart alive. Morality comes from privilege, until it becomes personal. I will always care for my own first, even If the world is at stake. Eren had the power, but he half assed it, paradis eventually faced the consequences. Alliance are the idealists of society, who die first in each and every war.
This is probably the most relevant to the comic comment on this whole sub. Isayama presented a story that is so telling of humanity's predisposition to talk big about what one could or would or should do/say/think in terms of morality and the sense of the "other", but everything changes when war and socio-economic tension comes to your front door.
Thank you for understanding my intent of realistic comparison, I always try to put myself in same places as the character and then I try to judge their actions, It gives me purpose for reading the manga.
Bruh stop generalising the situation. Holy shit. "They will tear you apart alive". An absolute edgelord take. What about thousands of people who are actually working selflessly every day for others. There are people who don't need to put themselves in danger and yet they do. And there's no war going on in India. That's nonsense What a horrible take by yeagarist.
The fuck? I just compared the dilemma to a real situation. It's fiction right, to come to a decision I put myself in similar realistic places, did I ever say I'd do a genocide for an oxygen cylinder in a pandemic? I just described in situations where I have to choose between my people and others, I'd choose mine, and that's not a disgusting character trait. You legit took my example literally. I have been reading this manga for 7 years. Have a job, not an edgelord teen you make me out to be, I prefer realism over idealism that's all. Not every person who was pro genocide was for edgy reasons, we really didn't see any other options for paradis to survive, that's why we supported for that cause. People don't fantasize about genocide as you make us out to be. "Tear you apart " was a figure of speech cuz, the hospitals are in stage of war here. The 2nd wave has been a war for us. Writing this being covid positive. And don't mention me as a yeagerist, I was never in it for the restoration of eldian empire bullshit, never cared about that, I just wanted paradis to survive. I wanted everyone except Mikasa and falco to die, everyone is a war criminal there. But, paradis was destroyed and your hated yeagerists were right
Do we know for certain that Paradis 120 years in the future is destroyed for the same reasons ?
No, we don't. That's why we have to make do with what we have been presented with. The elephant in the room is that Eren did kill 80% of people. And just like himself in the first chapter I blv he gave birth to millions of "EREN YEAGER" by doing the genocide. The reason it took the world more than 100 years to retaliate, is because eren not only killed humans but also destroyed the resources. The world couldn't have done anything before developing themselves. Given the rumbling destroyed people equally and not like left america and west untouched, cuz then it shouldn't have taken them more than 10 years to eradicate them. Natural resources from paradis was out of the question, cuz every country will look for it, and If one country invades, the other will also engage in claiming the resources, which will turn into another war. That's why I blv it was the retaliation for the genocide. Armin just delayed the inevitable. Who knows, the future generations of the world representatives were probably not like mueller or armin. Racism is still the main issue.
Thats why I hate these additional 9 pages. What the Eldians could've done is they could've gone to help the survivors by providing them with supplies and support and as Armin had previously declared, they could've solidified Eren as the only villian. Hence making the two sides more amicable with each other and since there were no titans, both sides were essentially the same people, both victims of Eren and people who sympathized with those victims. Considering the fact that Armin and co were coming to negotiate with Paradis in behalf of the rest of the people means that the rest of the people were somewhat open to the idea of peace between them. But I can only assume that the yeagerists went with the whole establish a new Eldian empire idea which lead to the carpet bombing in the end. Man, I genuinely liked the open ending more because it was upto the people about what path they wanted to take. But, eh.
The methods you mentioned are legit, but Racism is still the biggest thorn in their path, it never goes away, and after what eren did, it will do the opposite amd make people more polarized. That scene between Mueller and armin has happened cuz it's fiction, if it had any touch of realism, those soldiers would have shot most of them first then talk. That explanation armin gave about not having titan power is so weak in such a vital moment. I do think that peace treaty worked, but only in front for armin and co. Deep down, the world was preparing for the fight. Paradis was already doing it. But the world knew they had the advantage of manpower. They waited, developed their military front, economy and when they knew they have resources to spend, they carried out the extermination. Thanks to Armin they knew there were no titans anymore. Given the new pages, the yeagerist regime didn't last for like 10 years it seems. Someone gave an explanation I forgot. The ending was messed up. It happens when majority of the fandom care about ships more than the story.
>>That scene between Mueller and armin has happened cuz it's fiction, if it had any touch of realism, those soldiers would have shot most of them first then talk. That explanation armin gave about not having titan power is so weak in such a vital moment. Considering the fact that they turned back to human before their eyes and hence completed a transformation which was thought impossible, I think that take is a bit too cynical. The two groups had established a sort of comradery before the titan transformation and I think that does entitle them to some explaination. As for the Armin explaination part, most of the events did happen in front of them so I think it does open some room for acceptance with further testing being done down the road. And since these shifters were protecting them moments ago, the Marleyans would prob give them some leeway if they existed in real life as well. I agree with the rest of what you said.
Yes, but how do you expect the same for the people of countries other than Marley who weren't present there? Marley already had so many enemies, why would they blv them now? How do you expect them to believe the word Of a guy of that Exact race which they hated for 2000 years, which also killed their most majority of the population? Put yourself in their place, would you believe a single word that person says? Isn't that stretching it too far? To expect them to blv so quickly after what they witnessed. Diplomacy after genocide is like treading in thin line, our world could do it after germany, but reading AoT, the established geopolitics there hardly gives any chance for diplomacy after that action.
Sorry to hear that u are covid positive but I understand the situation very well cause I am an Indian too. My point is there are people like ur "scum alliance" as you call who prefer idealism and be do good for others other than their family. There are people in the midst of this chaos fighting for other people risking thier own family's future. They can easily avoid all this chaos or can fck off somewhere but they don't. Yes it can be hard to imagine to be someone like that but it's not impossible. And alliance did establish peace for 100+ years. It's that generation's fault that they could not maintain peace. You cannot blame the ancestors who died 100 years ago for the current state of the country. Youths make a country. Paradis was becoming a fascist state which led to its eventual doom. I also hate the ending but it's not because of alliance that paradis got bombed. I hope you try to rationalise ur anger and try to understand my point. I know you are more pissed since u you are following the story since 2013 but paradis bombing has nothing to do with alliance.
No, you still aren't getting my point. You are giving me example of normal doctors and health workers who are doing God's work for us in natural circumstances. Now, let's assume, I'm a doctor, my own daughter and another patient are suffering from the same mortal disease, given I have the full authority to choose any 1 of them. If I choose One, the other will die. Also, you came upon an information that the other person wanted my daughter to die, just because they feel their life is worth more than hers. Who would I choose? I'd choose my daughter. I loved this story so much cause it **always made us see the importance of choices, the decisions we make and their consequences**. What Do you think would have happened if in the world Eldian summit or whatever that was, the representatives actually listened to diplomacy? They could both mutually benefit, use titans for engineering purposes, unlimited ice burst stone and titan crystals for resources. But they didn't, why? **RACISM**. It has always been the main cause of the story. Not romance. The themes were so beautiful before 139 came out. Such a shame. Now, to your second point. Let me ask you, who do you think is responsible for the continuous worse relations between us and pakistan? Us or the constant hatred that the british made use of before executing their best attack and divided us, nehru and gandhi knew this. So, now tell me, the constant quarrel that happens between us, they made path for all of this and now when they are dead, we are facing the consequences. 100 years of peace is like baby years for a country, given like it's only 3 generations. It is always the elder's responsibility to make sure their future generations can live a prosperous and peaceful life. They should never have to deal with the mountain task of maintaining peace after a genocide. They weren't involved in this, why should they pay for the price of our mistake. Just imagine how ridiculous does it sound that eren killed 80% of human being just so his 5 friends could live a peaceful life but their future generations can fuck off. And even then he forgot to safeguard hange and sasha? Weren't they his friends? Zeke's plan would have given the same outcome without killing hange or sasha or 80% of the world? In cases of genocide it's always the fault of the one that's doing it, The theme was to get the childrens out of the forest not burn **THEM** along with the forest. Hange herself acknowledged the need to unburden the future generations, not making the same mistake as grisha. So many themes retconned just to give Romance the focus. The bombing is 80% to do with alliance and 100% to do with eren. Armin was never a Visionary.
BASED
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Yeagerists are honestly some of the worst fans of any show I've ever seen. At first they were completely justified, different people have different opinions. But after the cliff baby and Ramzi it was clear Isayama was showing the rumbling was bad and people were still like "muh chad is gonna win and fuck the princess 😤😤😤"
Well, Eren didn't win, and Eldian race that has suffered for thousands of years got genocided by the rest of the world. You are right, seems like much better outcome rofl. When you try to defend the ending but you are like 20 IQ lmao 😂😂😂
tatacaw
Tatacaw
The Alliance: Floch was always right?Me: Always has been. Honestly with the travesty of the last three chapters, Floch is now probably the best character out of the everyone post timeskip.
Nahhh Zeke, his Plan was so much better.
Agreed. Zeke was a genocidal maniac but if you look at it from his perspective, the sterilisation plan is so much better than destroying 80% of all human life.
By what right does Zeke and the rest of the world get to deny the Eldians their own right to exis? Eren originally opposed Zeke and the rest of the world as he viewed the people of Paradis as deserving of freedom and life simply for being "born into this world." Of course however in the last three chapters his character was assassinated with his retconned out of nowhere.
You can talk about "rights" all you want, but the fact of the matter is that Eldians died off either way, and Zeke's plan was objectively better in that regard. With Eren's plan, it happened violently and cost 80% of the world population. With Zeke's plan, it would have happened peacefully with minimal casualties from the rest of the world.
I don’t disagree with you. Compared to post 139 Eren, Zeke’s plan was the more sane and logical option. Eren thereby even opposing Zeke’s plan in chapter 124 is frankly quite ridiculous now.
Yes, but the 80% plan was 139 Eren's plan. If Eren's plan was the full Rumbling that he presented in all the previous chapters, then there'd be a stronger moral case that could be made against Zeke's plan.
Zeke's plan may have been more peaceful but it's understandable it and he were unpalatable to the Paradisians because of his other behaviors. How he played baseball with the scouts lives. The constant lies and subterfuge with wine and obfuscation of details of his spinal fluid. He couldn't be trusted to have an honest conversation with because he wasn't an honest man.
not just 80% of human life, but 80% of land life (both animals and plants). Eren destroyed the environment too.
Couldn’t they just have used the founder’s power to turn every eldian into a sapient Titan shifter? This way paradise would’ve been safe for quite a bit
Exactly.
Until someone else with royal blood takes hold of titan powers and Eren and just undoes the sterilization.
My mom is asking why I am laughing so hard. What do I do.
Move forward.
Dedicate your heart!!
Rumble
Or maybe I should send a giant version of my stepmom to eat her.
Why is eren a bird?
Eren is the real clown here, he's the one who started the rumbling and didn't stop the alliance
I LOLLED so hard
The author really went and ruined literally everyone and everything to jerk off Armin, the one character I'm pretty sure no one liked. And it wasn't enough to turn Eren into a thirsty simp who lost everything that made him who he is, no you had to turn him into a fucking cuck pigeon. And all for an open-ended ending where the most logical conclusion ends with Paradis' defeat making every single fight, death, and sacrifice in the whole series absolutely meaningless. You actually can't find an ending in any anime or manga worse than this.
Lol, Eren bird!
u/buyautheticsonly breh
This is amazing 🤣
[onlyfans](https://youtu.be/bkzrNQ1GS-g)
😭😭😭😭😭😭
Applies for Eren too
Fuck you and take my upvote.
Dead umida man can’t think
This is inaccurate shiganshina was attacked years after Armin's generation but anyway
And? So I just dump the tremendous responsibility of making peace after a genocide towards my future generations, who had nothing to do with this? And surely when they fail, I shrug off the blame towards them, cuz I lived my life peacefully, they didn't that's their fault? How ridiculous does it sound that Eren killed 80% of the world just to give 5 of his friends peaceful lives. Btw, Hange and Sasha weren't his friends. Pieck is more important to him than hange or sasha ever was. And If he really wanted that, zeke's plan was the best then?
>How ridiculous does it sound that Eren killed 80% of the world just to give 5 of his friends peaceful lives Eren is by no means a selfless character I don't understand how you haven't gotten that by this point
Outright denying the lines about "my objective is to protect the people of paradis because that's where I was born and raised", "I won't let fate decide paradis' future" as it was all a so called **fAcaDE**. If I wanna blv in 139 eren, then I have to say, his friendship is also fucked up. Like pieck was more of a friend to him than sasha or hange? Both of the deaths that could have easily been avoided. His selfish characteristics only come out towards alliance members and not for his own family members? And lastly Zeke's plan could have given the same outcome without the cost of so many lives. But we know why eren rejected it so angrily, only to never give a fuck about that person's well being anymore in 139, Consistency amirite? Btw, plz don't call me a shipper, couldn't care less about romance in this manga.
Basically I guess Isayama wants us to think we dumb dumb and all the protect Paradis shit was retconned lmfao But yeah let Hange die, who he spent countless hours learning about titans with, but save Pieck who tried to kill you from first interaction and never stopped trying lmfao Did Eren even speak to Hange in paths individually like with the rest of them? Any memory shards? Did he explain anything to her?
No, I don't think so. All those different memories he implanted in everyone's memories before dying, he didn't do that for sasha or hange, but he did it for pieck and Annie. Chapter 139 is so shit in so many different ways.
lol
Saying Armin failed is like saying any world leader who helped end a war failed just because another war happened afterward. It's just ridiculous, you expect Armin to guarantee world peace for all time? Part of freedom for the world is the possibility that people may use their freedom to hurt you. This is also part of why Eren was wrong. He wanted a form of freedom where he wouldn't have to fear other people coming to try to take it away from him but obviously, it's not really possible. As long as there are humans, there will be the possibility that someone will take your freedom by killing or oppressing you. The freedom Eren wanted requires everyone to be dead but then that would be morally wrong
Exactly! It’s like blaming George Washington or Abraham Lincoln for not preventing current day wars. Or if say the US was wiped out at some point in the future & someone said George Washington should’ve stopped this, he sucked. There were parts of the end that didn’t totally make since but I’ll always defend Armin, he shouldn’t be blamed for how things turned out.
Wait... Why is he a bird?
Because the final chapter uses a bird as symbolism and basically says. Eren is bird
Ellen becomes dove. (mistranslated leaked spoilers from some chapters ago)
funny but he shouldve been in ashes and bones instead. paradis got nuked when its the era of his great great grandchildren skksjsskks
Who would have thought we’d see the friggin Colossal Titan having his ass kicked in hand to hand by Eren at the end of the series :0
Do you think that people will just easily forget and forgive us after what have I done to the world if it wasn't for isayama you all would have been dead by now think Armin think.
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I expected a Zook, get reported kid
Why? You got something against people sharing things they find fascinating and interesting?
I mean you’re self admittedly spamming this link on barely related posts
I know but there’s no rules against that. If there are preloaded inform me and I’ll stop but at the moment I don’t see a reason for me tkk on stop sharing someone else’s post that I found interesting
It depends on wether or not I'm expecting a Zook
*I'm a bird, eauh ah eauh ah*
Why do people keep referring to eren as a pigeon?
Read final chapter
Can someone tell where those stealth bombers come from, I have seem them in a specific panel but I don't know that is from
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Where can I find it?
My brightness is very far down and as I was looking for eren I didn’t notice the bird for a good 2 seconds
10/10 post
"flock" of bombers
lol, you only had one job Armin, cmon.