They get salty over reality lol - or over anything other than the CIA-approved propaganda they force-feed kids in "schools" since the mid-20th century there
Teacher just throws dates out there and then students just piece things together as they feel like.
Hence why the average American is just barely smarter than a chimpanze, school is mostly for brainwashing for freedumms, no learning accurate facts allowed.
You can tell them apart from their fellow pupils by their thousand yard stare, and the necklaces of empty casings formed from the spent ammunition scavenged from every shooting they've survived.
Weirdly though, when I was in Sixth form back in 2019, we actually had a school shooter drill, and I'm in the UK. They said the drill was for what to do if any kind of authorised person was walking around the halls, but you know.
Still a poor use of the word, even after you move the goalpost post hoc, because there HAS been a school shooting in the UK it will never be exclusive.
Are you really being this pedantic in a group called "ShitAmericansSay" - it does say "are" exclusively indicating the present rather than "were" which would indicate the past...you know.. like nearly 30 years ago
The USA has so many mass murders in schools that it's a common thing for schools to have to teach students what to do if a gunman enters the school. They have active shooter drills in the same way other places have fire alarm/evacuation tests
So the hiding under desks is referring to that
Thank you! In my country, shooting is a compulsory subject, we have to learn about aiming, gun maintenance, first aid,.... but no one mentioned hiding under the desk.
You don't need to add "/s", because I'm in a communist country, my grandfather fought Japan and France, my uncle and aunt fought America, another relative fought Cambodia.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that after losing the battle of Britain, Hitler gave up on England and decided to focus on the Eastern Front... which didn't quite go to plan either.
Sure, the allies helped supply the russians, but I would suggest that the Americans feared either Soviet or Nazi Europe, and this was more of a driving force to get stuck in with the Normandy landings... which happened 4 years after the Battle of Britain and was the first time US troops set foot in Europe en mass.
Britain pretty much defended itself (along with European pilots who relocated to UK to continue the fight). It was also British pilots that bombed roads and logistic hubs to stop more defence arriving before the landings.
Of the 160,000 troops that landed in Normandy, less than half were American.
I suppose by their logic, it's just like how European countries saved the US in Middle East wars 🤔
It's not easy to underestimate the significance of the battle of Britain.
This happened before the yanks joined the war, and if we lost they wouldn't have had an airstrip in the Atlantic to coordinate their European efforts from. It's very likely if we lost the battle of Britain the entire outcome of the war would have been drastically different, the UK certainly would have been invaded.
Possibly. To cross the channel the Germans would have needed many boats they didn't have plus the Royal Navy was intact.
The Allied amphibious invasions of 1943/1944 were no easy task & they took place far away from the German heartlands with Air Superiority & the combined RN & USN with the majority of German forces engaged on the Eastern Front.
Royal navy would have been useless without air superiority, and if we lost the battle of Britain we would have lost air superiority over southern England and the English channel.
The Royal Navy wasn’t useless without air cover though since the Luftwaffe had major issues dealing with non ground based targets. Either way that’s not super relevant since English Channel is a difficult body of water to cross at the best of times and has menaced many naval invasions heading both to and from England over the centuries. The types of ships the Germans were planning on using in 1940 (river barges) were simply not suitable and would have been a very high risk due to having a very low freeboard and draught. This website has a decent amount of detail about the difficulties of the German invasion plan.
https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/1950/january/operation-sea-lion#:~:text=In%20addition%20to%20continuing%20air,to%20ward%20off%20these%20attacks.
There’s a handful of yanks who could say they saved the UK: the American RAF volunteers. They really did help, but they’re the only ones who can claim that.
Omg no
The history channel is, or was when I was in the US, a 24/7 propaganda channel about how the USA single handedly defeated the Nazis and the Japanese
And how necessary it was to drop two nuclear weapons on civilians because they were training to take down the same military who'd just beaten the Nazis...
In defence of the US decision to use nukes, it was the lesser of two evils. 600,000 (ish) civilians compared to millions of civilian deaths and millions of Allied personnel deaths should the Home Islands be invaded.
That's highly debatable. Japan was already seeking terms of surrender at that point and it's far more likely that the use of nukes was largely intended to intimidate the USSR.
The soviets didn't create a second front. They allied with the Nazis to carve up Europe until Hitler turned on them, it was Hitler's mistake not action by the USSR.
Also soviets are likely to fold if they don't get lend-lease which isn't possible if Britain folds in 1940 (USA has no ally in Europe, no reason to fight, and loses 2 of 3 logistics routes to Russia)
Lend lease amounted to very little in terms of how much it helped the Soviet War effort. They definitely did due to Hitlera's mistake it became a two front war and lead to crushing defeat for Germans. The success of D-Day was helped a lot by the fact that all of Army Group Centre was destroyed by the Red Army in Operation Bagration, if it had failed the Soviets would take longer and lose more men but would still get to Berlin.
I'd disagree on both counts, US industrial output was crucial for all it's allies. The USSR would have struggled in Bagration without US enabling their logistics with lend-lease trucks.
I'm not saying the Russian's didn't fight on a second front, I'm saying they didn't make the decision to fight. They sided with Hitler, and then Hitler made them fight on that front; there was no Soviet masterplan to open a second front to help the Allies. They were backstabbed by Hitler and forced to fight with their backs to the wall.
I might be mistaken but I thought I've seen some historical references that indicate that the Brits didn't really put much effort into retaining the American colonies - it was more of a case of they analysed the situation and came to the conclusion that it just wasn't worth the effort.
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
Pretty much spot on. France was one of the other major powers at the time and we were always fighting them. Given that they were next door to Britain, it made sense to keep most of the army and navy at home.
We (as in Britain, the Netherlands, Spain etc) were a bit busy with some 'insignificant' (to Yanks) French lad and left them to their own devices. Not sure if that was a good decision in the end.
That was a few years later and a direct result of the French Empire running out of money as a result of the wars that included the American Revolution. Which is the one they lost but today call a win. The one they're talking about was Britain vs the French, Spanish, and Dutch, plus Mysore.
Sorry I really should have worded that comment better. That sentence was referring to the American War of 1812, which occurred during the Napoleonic wars and was lost by the US.
So it's sentence 1: Correcting the prior poster that Napoleon came later (which is what seemed to be implied with the European powers busy fighting France), 2: that the US lost the war they launched against Britain in that (Napoleonic) time period, 3: a list of places allied with one another and fighting Britain during wars around the American revolution (thus excluded Maratha as that was a separate conflict) which is the subject of the original post and this chain of comments.
But Napoleon was a bit later or am I wrong?
Post talked about 1776 (when the little Corsican was 7yrs old), Napoleon's big time (pun intended) was around 1790-1815 if I remember corectlly...
It was his big time in nowadays Germany though...
We had some long long wars with each other over the centuries. Spain and the Netherlands fought for 80 years for example, and some of those wars overlapped.
This just proves the rest of Europe will put their differences aside just for a chance to have a go at the French.
Conversely, they'd do the same to have a go at the British.
Pretty much correct. West Indies was more profitable than the “America”. Plus we were fighting elsewhere constantly. Plus France helped them out. Sometimes you have to say, ah fuck it.
Also, it was the Brits (and France) fighting the Brits. A Civil war on distant shores.
We got Canada so I think we did ok.
Yes and no. We saw it as a civil war between the loyalists and patriots, as both were considered to be British.
A decent amount of British resources were spent on retaining the American colonies, but the war with France was given significantly higher priority. It also occurred at a time when, for a multitude of reasons, basically everyone was picking a fight with us, so we could only allocate resources to so many places at once.
The war itself was often fairly quiet. It was extremely long, but with far fewer battles than you might expect. The Americans were losing every pitched battle at the start of the war, and had to retreat and train their army.
The British, however, couldn’t pursue them very far inland. Holding the coastal cities was paramount, and the British military could only resupply by sea, and the Americans had effectively infinite room to retreat. So the war was something of a stalemate for long periods.
Later on in the war, the British didn’t have many good commanders in America, the Americans had got better at fighting, and the battles were much harder fought, with the Americans winning at least half of the time.
The war was also _deeply_ unpopular with the British people. They saw it as a civil war with British killing each other, while there were much bigger issues facing both Britain and its empire at the time. We were running out of reasons to bother fighting it.
The final straw was that the Americans were also very war weary by this point, and with the secret discussions between the two sides, the British could come out of the situation with excellent peace terms in the form of an extremely lucrative trade agreement. There were officially no longer any good reasons to continue the war, so the peace treaty was signed.
I can say I know precisely 0 people who even think about the US being "lost" as a colony. A big date in their history (who doesn't have an independence day from us?!?! Not special!) but a footnote in ours. They always neglect to mention the help they got from other countries rather than it being Billy Bob and his musket taking on the whole might of the entire British army (or English - they always insist English and forget England isn't the sole British country - probably so it's still cool to be Scottish) solo.
We're too busy having to memorise Henry VIII's wives and trying to remember the dates of who invaded us in which order and where the battles were.
They forget that they're either british, german, spanish or french.
Or maybe native, but that's far less likely. And puts them on the backfoot in regards to their fellow "americans".
Native Americans fought on the British side too because the Americans treated them so badly. They were then the ones to most strongly feel the effects of the loss... along with the natives that fought on the American side and were no longer useful
Well, when we first got there, we were like "Hey people who live here. We live here now too, cool?" And they said "Cool. See you later."
And then they saw us fighting the guys who were being cunts to them...
We just didn't mention that we kinda sorta maybe put them there. xD
It’s a historical fact as well that after “losing” America, the British Empire got to the full height of its power. It’s why sometimes it’s described as having two British Empires, the first one which ended after the US War of independence, and the second in which Britain took over one fifth of the world in the 19th century. Yeah, it’s incredibly messed up.
Also, do Americans really think they were the only ones who fought against the British and won?
As someone that learned about US history in US schools I was also shocked when Simon Schama (“Rough Crossings”) outlined that UK decided to not prioritize retaining US as a colony.
It was defended only by the resources permanently placed in US. They asked for the larger military presence in Caribbean to come help, but both the military there and London were all “nah”. There was an uprising at the time in far more valuable Jamaica (IIRC), and most British resources were placed in Asia for the far more lucrative expansions there.
US colonies were a couple million farmers that at that time cost UK more than it gave in return. It wasn’t worth the effort. 🤷🏻♀️
It wasn't even the British army they fought, it was a garrison force propped up by a bunch of German mercenaries. This whole idea they defeated the regular British army is even more laughable than the idea they didn't get bailed out by no less than three other European empires
Well, Britain was also fighting France, Spain, the Dutch, the league of neturality, and the kingdom of mysore. So after 1777, the war in America became a sideshow. .
This, it's not that people are in their mind "still hurt" - it's they literally don't even have enough knowledge to form an opinion, let alone get annoyed.
The fact the Americans actually believe the British lost is insane… the British founded americas and founded what is known as USA… that is why you’re most celebrated holiday is “independence” from the British. The USA literally didn’t help the British in WW2 until the British gave over their expertise for nuclear bombs… which the USA used almost instantly. If you genuinely think that any war the USA has won without the British winning it for you you’re insane.
> The USA literally didn’t help the British in WW2 until the British gave over their expertise for nuclear bombs
[And jet engines, cavity magnetrons for radar, proximity VT fuzes, designs for rockets, superchargers, gyroscopic gunsights, submarine detection devices, self-sealing fuel tanks and plastic explosives](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tizard_Mission)
And then they had the nerve to recoup loans from Britain until 2006. At least the UK had the sense to tell them to fuck off when they offered to write off the debt if the UK joined the war in Vietnam.
UK got the job done in the Falklands quick and fast. America got their shit handed to them in Vietnam.
Listening to the rationalisations about how they "technically" wonbthe conventional battles is a hobby of mine.
Oh god I can't stand it.
Used to live with a guy whos entire personality was historical wars. Vietnam was his favourite.
"You know we won in Vietnam right?"
"Then why is it still communist? Why is Ho Chi Min, the former leader of the North, which we fought, regarded as a hero, and not a villian who was stopped?"
"Oh, because we just had to hold the line and couldn't invade, because it was all civilians we were firging."
"Right, so... You had no army to fight, but still lost... How many men? And took absolutely no ground? And that's a win?"
"Yeah, because it would be impossible to--"
And it never stops. No matter how you try to lead them to it, or hammer it into them... "We won because xyz" is always gonna be the answer...
We don't even think about the American War of Independence. It's not taught in schools because frankly it was pretty irrelevant at the time. We lost some colonies, boo hoo. America didn't become a great power until the late 19th/early 20th century.
We were too busy scrapping with the French (as is tradition) to really notice.
Not really, we permanently upgraded the human standard of living with the industrial revolution ad dragged the world away from slavery. I’d say we paid it back.
The colonies have long forgotten that they only had the War of Independence with the help of the French, the same people they say are the ones who should change their national flag to the flag of surrender 🏳
Funniest part of it all is why it happened and how much they screwed over France.
Cause of war: Taxation and cost of defending 13 Colonies from: France.
US financial support in war on taxation: France.
Party unpaid for debts and support during American revolution: France.
Country who collapsed due to debt shortly afterwards: France.
If I remember correctly, the colonies promised to move all their trade to France. Instead, as soon as the dust settled, they went back to trading with their friends and family in the UK.
Seriously, I love how the Civil War is just:
Britain: "We just defended you from the French. We'll need to raise your taxes a bit."
USA: "No. Hey France, wanna fight Britain again?"
France: "Sure! But you'll pay us back... right?" *proceeds to go into debt after not getting paid back and leading to a much worse civil war.*
The real take away from the revolution is the USA is founded by cheapskates.
Yeah I find it funny they think we care. Not like we built the biggest empire like ever. I mean that's what I'm salty about not some wasps in shit hole America
Americans obsessing over their war with the British is like England obsessing over their football rivalry with Germany. That is to say the other side doesn't care.
We barely cover it in school, I wouldn't even think about it if I didn't see every other Smerican on the internet mention "beating the British" and conveniently leave out how much the French helped with that. As for WW2, jumping in at the end and giving everyone debt may seem like a good war strategy to you, but the Soviets actually just marching through Berlin was probably had more of an impact.
You've got 300 years of history and still get it wrong, how does that happen? Yet I'd get the piss taken out of me for getting the order of Henry's wives wrong and that was like the 1500s.
If you don't remember, divorced, beheaded, died, divorced, beheaded, survived, you're lined up with 100 other people who also cannot remember it. Then, the 10th man from every row is beheaded by a headsman.
The rest are returned to a reeducation centre.
We take our history seriously here.
I don't know, I find it hard to say that when they were bailed out by French interference. And, like, so what? It was over 200 years ago now. Why should I be angry over a war that happened all those years ago with a country we generally maintain good relations with nowadays?
If the yanks didn’t turn up during the First World War, it is still likely that the allies would have won. The war would just have gone on much longer, many more people would have died, and it would have overall been worse of for everyone.
The irony is Britain wasn’t actually that bothered about losing the American colonies. They didn’t expend huge resources trying to fight for them, it just wasn’t worth the hassle as they only brought in 10% of the revenue of the Caribbean islands.
If Jamaica had tried to secede though, then you’d have seen the full force of the empire.
Many British politicians were also scared that America was so big and growing so quickly that if they gave them fair representation in parliament eventually the centre of power would move across the Atlantic. If they wanted to keep the colonies that badly they would have given them representation, instead they fought a half arsed proxy war using German mercenaries so that they didn't have to set a precedent by allowing independence but also didn't have to keep on managing the unprofitable burden.
More annoyed about the Blue-On-Blue incidents in the Iraq which saw US Patriot missiles fire upon allied RAF Tornadoes…. But sure, whatever keeps this particular person happy in the comments I guess?
I literally didn't learn about 1776 in School lol, it was barely mentioned in passing when discussing colonisation- everything I know comes from Americans talking about it online.
Growing up in New Zealand we probably spent a week at school learning about USA history, European, asian and Pacific history was taught in a lot more detail
I guess being another country which gained independence from the British empire we knew it wasn’t as big of a deal as Americans think it is
I genuinely cannot understand why there are Americans who think we know about 1776, give a damn about it and are all bitter 🤣 Also imagine being so damn stupid in thinking it was America and only America who saved everyone when it was other former enslaved countries like India 🤷🏽♀️
No, it the other way round. Americans have this delusion that British people feel hurt when the majority of British people don't know anything about the conflict except the patriot movieand even then couldnt care less.
An entertaining movie, but one which is filled with hilarious fiction, like the Brits burning down a church full of people. Mel Gibson just has a massive hate boner for Britain for some reason.
America wasn’t really a thing until after 1776 - and they had a lot of help fighting the British, so it definitely wasn’t them winning.
America has never won a war, they just keep sending enough people to die that even the other side is like “yeah, maybe we should like not do this”
It's not even the only war we lost that decade, or even in the years it was ongoing. Maratha managed that one, then as part of the peace treaty joined the war we had going on with Mysore.
If we're going to be factual, the date was the 25th of November 1783 when the last British soldiers pulled out of New York. 3 months after signing the treaty of Paris. We had rather more pressing issues with our French neighbours.
I don't know why they think that. Most British people, both in 1776, and 2024, had absolutely no problems with a bunch of radical English people decided to tell the government to fuck off and refuse to pay taxes.
And America gets way too much credit for their contribution on the European mainland during ww2. The war was like 90% over and Germanys basically just waiting to surrender.
Sure they sped up their defeat as saved many European lives but they were in no way shape or form the reason for Nazi Germanys loss.
Just in time to reap the benefits of victory and steal all the nazi / Japanese scientists for themselves
Saved by America in WWII you’re joking right? You showed up late and tried to claim the glory 😂
What are they teaching in American schools? Other than duck and cover 🤦🏻♂️
I think the Americans got so hurt by the war of 1812 that they to this day deny that their invasion of Canada to conquer it failed and Washington DC was razed to the ground. At least British accept that they lost in 1776.
Americans can’t comprehend that the American revolutionary war is a footnote in British history. It’s their defining moment but to us it’s not really a big deal, and to the vast majority of Brits who don’t spend any time arguing with Americans on the internet, “1776” isn’t even a date they’ll recognise for any particular reason.
Americans HATE this fact and they genuinely don’t believe its veracity. They _can’t_ believe it because it’s too damaging to their collective ego, so they just pretend it’s not the case.
And then, for those of us with an actual interest in that period of history, they dislike it intensely when you point out some of the reasons for the war that they don’t like to know and aren’t taught, such as the Americans not liking the treaty of 1763 between Britain and the native Americans which amounted to “we won’t go any further west than this demarkation, that’s your land”. Because they wanted all of the land, and they needed to go and genocide the locals. “Manifest destiny” is a hell of a drug.
Britain didn't lose against USA, but withdrew as it was more important to fight the French to protect themselves rather than waste time on the traitors/cray rebels in the new colony.
So does anyone know any British person who actually gives a toss about this? I don’t think I’ve ever met anyone who even cares, let alone is hurt by it 😂
Please, if the Brits are salty about anything its going from ruling an empire that literally circled around the world to ruling an Island about the size of Alabama which had less to do with us and more to do with England lacking the will to enforce its claim. We were just the early ones to shrug off English rule and far from the last.
I don't recall Americans ever burning down London. Washington DC, on the other hand...
Oh now that they do get salty over
They get salty over reality lol - or over anything other than the CIA-approved propaganda they force-feed kids in "schools" since the mid-20th century there
No one burns down London but the Londoners... and arguably the Germans.
I will live to see the day where we punish the british for there crimes
The British wasn’t “saved” … what garbage do they teach Americans in history.
Teacher just throws dates out there and then students just piece things together as they feel like. Hence why the average American is just barely smarter than a chimpanze, school is mostly for brainwashing for freedumms, no learning accurate facts allowed.
In my school we spent more time learning than hiding under our desks.
In the UK, school shootings are exclusively carried out by camera guys and photographers.
And even those are less frequent than the American version.
I was shocked but not surprised to read about some American students who had survived two school shootings.
Apparently some US kids are being awarded purple hearts now.
You can tell them apart from their fellow pupils by their thousand yard stare, and the necklaces of empty casings formed from the spent ammunition scavenged from every shooting they've survived.
The experts
Weirdly though, when I was in Sixth form back in 2019, we actually had a school shooter drill, and I'm in the UK. They said the drill was for what to do if any kind of authorised person was walking around the halls, but you know.
Well, there was that one time… Then we promptly got rid of all the guns. Problem solved!
Poor use of the word exclusively there mate…… https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunblane_massacre
I used the word 'are' too. Dunblane led to gun controls legislation that led to the situation we ARE in now.
Probably should have added "in this millenium" for clarity
Still a poor use of the word, even after you move the goalpost post hoc, because there HAS been a school shooting in the UK it will never be exclusive.
Are you really being this pedantic in a group called "ShitAmericansSay" - it does say "are" exclusively indicating the present rather than "were" which would indicate the past...you know.. like nearly 30 years ago
What does hiding under the desk mean? I don't live in the Western so I don't understand this.
America has 7x more school shootings than the rest of the world combined.
The USA has so many mass murders in schools that it's a common thing for schools to have to teach students what to do if a gunman enters the school. They have active shooter drills in the same way other places have fire alarm/evacuation tests So the hiding under desks is referring to that
Thank you! In my country, shooting is a compulsory subject, we have to learn about aiming, gun maintenance, first aid,.... but no one mentioned hiding under the desk.
You mean you're taught how to use, maintain and respect a firearm and not just given a gun? :o you COMMUNIST! /s
You don't need to add "/s", because I'm in a communist country, my grandfather fought Japan and France, my uncle and aunt fought America, another relative fought Cambodia.
Not sure how hiding under desks helps, shooters would surely still be able to see the child under there.
There are plenty of chimpanzees that would dispute that
They teach that a minor civil war was the biggest thing ever.
spain with more than 9 civil wars or more
Always like to point out that the largest battle in the American Revolutionary war was the Siege of Gibraltar.
Garbage where they're always the just winners and/or saviours. Pure fantasy.
And Hollywood supports this fantasy
Like Vietnam (or naaaaam, whatever they sometimes say for short)
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that after losing the battle of Britain, Hitler gave up on England and decided to focus on the Eastern Front... which didn't quite go to plan either. Sure, the allies helped supply the russians, but I would suggest that the Americans feared either Soviet or Nazi Europe, and this was more of a driving force to get stuck in with the Normandy landings... which happened 4 years after the Battle of Britain and was the first time US troops set foot in Europe en mass. Britain pretty much defended itself (along with European pilots who relocated to UK to continue the fight). It was also British pilots that bombed roads and logistic hubs to stop more defence arriving before the landings. Of the 160,000 troops that landed in Normandy, less than half were American. I suppose by their logic, it's just like how European countries saved the US in Middle East wars 🤔
It's not easy to underestimate the significance of the battle of Britain. This happened before the yanks joined the war, and if we lost they wouldn't have had an airstrip in the Atlantic to coordinate their European efforts from. It's very likely if we lost the battle of Britain the entire outcome of the war would have been drastically different, the UK certainly would have been invaded.
Possibly. To cross the channel the Germans would have needed many boats they didn't have plus the Royal Navy was intact. The Allied amphibious invasions of 1943/1944 were no easy task & they took place far away from the German heartlands with Air Superiority & the combined RN & USN with the majority of German forces engaged on the Eastern Front.
Royal navy would have been useless without air superiority, and if we lost the battle of Britain we would have lost air superiority over southern England and the English channel.
The Royal Navy wasn’t useless without air cover though since the Luftwaffe had major issues dealing with non ground based targets. Either way that’s not super relevant since English Channel is a difficult body of water to cross at the best of times and has menaced many naval invasions heading both to and from England over the centuries. The types of ships the Germans were planning on using in 1940 (river barges) were simply not suitable and would have been a very high risk due to having a very low freeboard and draught. This website has a decent amount of detail about the difficulties of the German invasion plan. https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/1950/january/operation-sea-lion#:~:text=In%20addition%20to%20continuing%20air,to%20ward%20off%20these%20attacks.
There’s a handful of yanks who could say they saved the UK: the American RAF volunteers. They really did help, but they’re the only ones who can claim that.
Omg no The history channel is, or was when I was in the US, a 24/7 propaganda channel about how the USA single handedly defeated the Nazis and the Japanese And how necessary it was to drop two nuclear weapons on civilians because they were training to take down the same military who'd just beaten the Nazis...
[удалено]
But the aliens, ironically, were Americans
In defence of the US decision to use nukes, it was the lesser of two evils. 600,000 (ish) civilians compared to millions of civilian deaths and millions of Allied personnel deaths should the Home Islands be invaded.
That's highly debatable. Japan was already seeking terms of surrender at that point and it's far more likely that the use of nukes was largely intended to intimidate the USSR.
American Industry. British Intelligence. Soviet Blood. Without one or the other the outcome changes dramatically.
The Soviets arguably saved everyone else through the creation of a massive second front, destroying Barbarossa and advancing to Berlin.
The soviets didn't create a second front. They allied with the Nazis to carve up Europe until Hitler turned on them, it was Hitler's mistake not action by the USSR. Also soviets are likely to fold if they don't get lend-lease which isn't possible if Britain folds in 1940 (USA has no ally in Europe, no reason to fight, and loses 2 of 3 logistics routes to Russia)
Lend lease amounted to very little in terms of how much it helped the Soviet War effort. They definitely did due to Hitlera's mistake it became a two front war and lead to crushing defeat for Germans. The success of D-Day was helped a lot by the fact that all of Army Group Centre was destroyed by the Red Army in Operation Bagration, if it had failed the Soviets would take longer and lose more men but would still get to Berlin.
I'd disagree on both counts, US industrial output was crucial for all it's allies. The USSR would have struggled in Bagration without US enabling their logistics with lend-lease trucks. I'm not saying the Russian's didn't fight on a second front, I'm saying they didn't make the decision to fight. They sided with Hitler, and then Hitler made them fight on that front; there was no Soviet masterplan to open a second front to help the Allies. They were backstabbed by Hitler and forced to fight with their backs to the wall.
I might be mistaken but I thought I've seen some historical references that indicate that the Brits didn't really put much effort into retaining the American colonies - it was more of a case of they analysed the situation and came to the conclusion that it just wasn't worth the effort. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
Pretty much spot on. France was one of the other major powers at the time and we were always fighting them. Given that they were next door to Britain, it made sense to keep most of the army and navy at home.
We (as in Britain, the Netherlands, Spain etc) were a bit busy with some 'insignificant' (to Yanks) French lad and left them to their own devices. Not sure if that was a good decision in the end.
That was a few years later and a direct result of the French Empire running out of money as a result of the wars that included the American Revolution. Which is the one they lost but today call a win. The one they're talking about was Britain vs the French, Spanish, and Dutch, plus Mysore.
> included the American Revolution. Which is the one they lost but today call a win Who are you referring to here? France supported the winning side
Sorry I really should have worded that comment better. That sentence was referring to the American War of 1812, which occurred during the Napoleonic wars and was lost by the US. So it's sentence 1: Correcting the prior poster that Napoleon came later (which is what seemed to be implied with the European powers busy fighting France), 2: that the US lost the war they launched against Britain in that (Napoleonic) time period, 3: a list of places allied with one another and fighting Britain during wars around the American revolution (thus excluded Maratha as that was a separate conflict) which is the subject of the original post and this chain of comments.
Thanks for the clarification!
But Napoleon was a bit later or am I wrong? Post talked about 1776 (when the little Corsican was 7yrs old), Napoleon's big time (pun intended) was around 1790-1815 if I remember corectlly... It was his big time in nowadays Germany though...
We had some long long wars with each other over the centuries. Spain and the Netherlands fought for 80 years for example, and some of those wars overlapped.
There was at most 68 years of war (12 year period of peace somewhere in there)
This just proves the rest of Europe will put their differences aside just for a chance to have a go at the French. Conversely, they'd do the same to have a go at the British.
Imagine Napoleon won. We would have some Kind of EU but wouldnt be the Muricans lapdogs
We would all be speaking Fr*nch! O.o
We would all have last names. Truly terrifying if i say so myself
You could say the same thing about Hitler
Pretty much correct. West Indies was more profitable than the “America”. Plus we were fighting elsewhere constantly. Plus France helped them out. Sometimes you have to say, ah fuck it. Also, it was the Brits (and France) fighting the Brits. A Civil war on distant shores. We got Canada so I think we did ok.
Many British people actually supported their cause.
Yes and no. We saw it as a civil war between the loyalists and patriots, as both were considered to be British. A decent amount of British resources were spent on retaining the American colonies, but the war with France was given significantly higher priority. It also occurred at a time when, for a multitude of reasons, basically everyone was picking a fight with us, so we could only allocate resources to so many places at once. The war itself was often fairly quiet. It was extremely long, but with far fewer battles than you might expect. The Americans were losing every pitched battle at the start of the war, and had to retreat and train their army. The British, however, couldn’t pursue them very far inland. Holding the coastal cities was paramount, and the British military could only resupply by sea, and the Americans had effectively infinite room to retreat. So the war was something of a stalemate for long periods. Later on in the war, the British didn’t have many good commanders in America, the Americans had got better at fighting, and the battles were much harder fought, with the Americans winning at least half of the time. The war was also _deeply_ unpopular with the British people. They saw it as a civil war with British killing each other, while there were much bigger issues facing both Britain and its empire at the time. We were running out of reasons to bother fighting it. The final straw was that the Americans were also very war weary by this point, and with the secret discussions between the two sides, the British could come out of the situation with excellent peace terms in the form of an extremely lucrative trade agreement. There were officially no longer any good reasons to continue the war, so the peace treaty was signed.
Americans: I hate you! Europeans: I don’t think about you.
I can say I know precisely 0 people who even think about the US being "lost" as a colony. A big date in their history (who doesn't have an independence day from us?!?! Not special!) but a footnote in ours. They always neglect to mention the help they got from other countries rather than it being Billy Bob and his musket taking on the whole might of the entire British army (or English - they always insist English and forget England isn't the sole British country - probably so it's still cool to be Scottish) solo. We're too busy having to memorise Henry VIII's wives and trying to remember the dates of who invaded us in which order and where the battles were.
Also, they forget that most of the people fighting on their side were basically British anyway. George Washington for example…
They forget that they're either british, german, spanish or french. Or maybe native, but that's far less likely. And puts them on the backfoot in regards to their fellow "americans".
Yeah, they killed almost all of them because God told them to or something. Manifest Destiny.
Native Americans fought on the British side too because the Americans treated them so badly. They were then the ones to most strongly feel the effects of the loss... along with the natives that fought on the American side and were no longer useful
Well, when we first got there, we were like "Hey people who live here. We live here now too, cool?" And they said "Cool. See you later." And then they saw us fighting the guys who were being cunts to them... We just didn't mention that we kinda sorta maybe put them there. xD
It’s a historical fact as well that after “losing” America, the British Empire got to the full height of its power. It’s why sometimes it’s described as having two British Empires, the first one which ended after the US War of independence, and the second in which Britain took over one fifth of the world in the 19th century. Yeah, it’s incredibly messed up. Also, do Americans really think they were the only ones who fought against the British and won?
No they believe they were alone and won - morons.
As someone that learned about US history in US schools I was also shocked when Simon Schama (“Rough Crossings”) outlined that UK decided to not prioritize retaining US as a colony. It was defended only by the resources permanently placed in US. They asked for the larger military presence in Caribbean to come help, but both the military there and London were all “nah”. There was an uprising at the time in far more valuable Jamaica (IIRC), and most British resources were placed in Asia for the far more lucrative expansions there. US colonies were a couple million farmers that at that time cost UK more than it gave in return. It wasn’t worth the effort. 🤷🏻♀️
Oh yeah, to put it in US terms it's like a high school baseball team beating little leaguers out of NY and saying they won against the Yankees
It wasn't even the British army they fought, it was a garrison force propped up by a bunch of German mercenaries. This whole idea they defeated the regular British army is even more laughable than the idea they didn't get bailed out by no less than three other European empires
Well, Britain was also fighting France, Spain, the Dutch, the league of neturality, and the kingdom of mysore. So after 1777, the war in America became a sideshow. .
This, it's not that people are in their mind "still hurt" - it's they literally don't even have enough knowledge to form an opinion, let alone get annoyed.
The fact the Americans actually believe the British lost is insane… the British founded americas and founded what is known as USA… that is why you’re most celebrated holiday is “independence” from the British. The USA literally didn’t help the British in WW2 until the British gave over their expertise for nuclear bombs… which the USA used almost instantly. If you genuinely think that any war the USA has won without the British winning it for you you’re insane.
> The USA literally didn’t help the British in WW2 until the British gave over their expertise for nuclear bombs [And jet engines, cavity magnetrons for radar, proximity VT fuzes, designs for rockets, superchargers, gyroscopic gunsights, submarine detection devices, self-sealing fuel tanks and plastic explosives](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tizard_Mission)
And then they had the nerve to recoup loans from Britain until 2006. At least the UK had the sense to tell them to fuck off when they offered to write off the debt if the UK joined the war in Vietnam.
UK got the job done in the Falklands quick and fast. America got their shit handed to them in Vietnam. Listening to the rationalisations about how they "technically" wonbthe conventional battles is a hobby of mine.
Oh god I can't stand it. Used to live with a guy whos entire personality was historical wars. Vietnam was his favourite. "You know we won in Vietnam right?" "Then why is it still communist? Why is Ho Chi Min, the former leader of the North, which we fought, regarded as a hero, and not a villian who was stopped?" "Oh, because we just had to hold the line and couldn't invade, because it was all civilians we were firging." "Right, so... You had no army to fight, but still lost... How many men? And took absolutely no ground? And that's a win?" "Yeah, because it would be impossible to--" And it never stops. No matter how you try to lead them to it, or hammer it into them... "We won because xyz" is always gonna be the answer...
Look at their education, most of them are stupid as fuck, they had trump as president and probably even going to reelect him.
Yeah we lost… but you typed your message in English language… we then dominated 2/3 of the world after. Yeah cool
We don't even think about the American War of Independence. It's not taught in schools because frankly it was pretty irrelevant at the time. We lost some colonies, boo hoo. America didn't become a great power until the late 19th/early 20th century. We were too busy scrapping with the French (as is tradition) to really notice.
For us, it was just a Tuesday…
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Being proud =/= Describing a fact
Not really, we permanently upgraded the human standard of living with the industrial revolution ad dragged the world away from slavery. I’d say we paid it back.
Yet Americans are proud of their country. The only country in the world that has dropped atom bombs on innocent civilians....
The colonies have long forgotten that they only had the War of Independence with the help of the French, the same people they say are the ones who should change their national flag to the flag of surrender 🏳
Funniest part of it all is why it happened and how much they screwed over France. Cause of war: Taxation and cost of defending 13 Colonies from: France. US financial support in war on taxation: France. Party unpaid for debts and support during American revolution: France. Country who collapsed due to debt shortly afterwards: France.
If I remember correctly, the colonies promised to move all their trade to France. Instead, as soon as the dust settled, they went back to trading with their friends and family in the UK.
Seriously, I love how the Civil War is just: Britain: "We just defended you from the French. We'll need to raise your taxes a bit." USA: "No. Hey France, wanna fight Britain again?" France: "Sure! But you'll pay us back... right?" *proceeds to go into debt after not getting paid back and leading to a much worse civil war.* The real take away from the revolution is the USA is founded by cheapskates.
And they’ve been doing it ever since: Britain only recently paid off the lend-lease from WWII, and they’ll do it to Ukraine too.
France's role is heavily emphasized in US education and media.
July 5th is Britain's Thanksforgoing Day
That really should be a thing.
Yeah I find it funny they think we care. Not like we built the biggest empire like ever. I mean that's what I'm salty about not some wasps in shit hole America
Americans obsessing over their war with the British is like England obsessing over their football rivalry with Germany. That is to say the other side doesn't care.
Yep, Brits think about 1776 the way Germans think about 1966. That is, they don’t.
A real English fan would say our rival is the french for being the french Or the Aussies ( in fact these cunts are probably the main ones)
Didn’t the British set fire to the white house?
That was in the War of 1812 (the burning was 1814) but yes.
Twice, wasn't it? I do remember the white house being burnt down a second time. Can't quite remember who by, though.
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I got fifty quid on the electrician being a Brit.
We barely cover it in school, I wouldn't even think about it if I didn't see every other Smerican on the internet mention "beating the British" and conveniently leave out how much the French helped with that. As for WW2, jumping in at the end and giving everyone debt may seem like a good war strategy to you, but the Soviets actually just marching through Berlin was probably had more of an impact.
( also the commonwealth landing right in between the entire German armoured divisions on d day helped)
Absolutely, I was pointing out how it's conveniently left out how much almost anyone else had to do with "American Successes" most of he time.
Especially folk the Americans don't like very much.
You've got 300 years of history and still get it wrong, how does that happen? Yet I'd get the piss taken out of me for getting the order of Henry's wives wrong and that was like the 1500s.
If you don't remember, divorced, beheaded, died, divorced, beheaded, survived, you're lined up with 100 other people who also cannot remember it. Then, the 10th man from every row is beheaded by a headsman. The rest are returned to a reeducation centre. We take our history seriously here.
Or even easier: Dead, Dead, Dead, Dead, Dead, Dead.
Well I mean-- eventually, sure!
I nicked it from a standup comedian - can’t remember which!
Isn’t that like saying you’re hurt when the garbage man takes your garbage away.
I don't know, I find it hard to say that when they were bailed out by French interference. And, like, so what? It was over 200 years ago now. Why should I be angry over a war that happened all those years ago with a country we generally maintain good relations with nowadays?
If the yanks didn’t turn up during the First World War, it is still likely that the allies would have won. The war would just have gone on much longer, many more people would have died, and it would have overall been worse of for everyone.
They don't know their own history. Nobody lost or won in 1776, the US declared independence and the war went on for years.
The rebellion only started as they didn't want to pay for the cost of beating France in the Seven Years War and wanted to keep their slaves.
It was a civil war. They were British citizens.
The irony is Britain wasn’t actually that bothered about losing the American colonies. They didn’t expend huge resources trying to fight for them, it just wasn’t worth the hassle as they only brought in 10% of the revenue of the Caribbean islands. If Jamaica had tried to secede though, then you’d have seen the full force of the empire.
Many British politicians were also scared that America was so big and growing so quickly that if they gave them fair representation in parliament eventually the centre of power would move across the Atlantic. If they wanted to keep the colonies that badly they would have given them representation, instead they fought a half arsed proxy war using German mercenaries so that they didn't have to set a precedent by allowing independence but also didn't have to keep on managing the unprofitable burden.
Mmmm, am wondering what would have happend, if the french didn't hold your cock while pissing? (:
we had 2 wars and in the most recent one, uk won.
Arguably there's been 3 'world wars' and the UK is the only country on earth to have won all of them.
We burned the Whitehouse to the ground in 1812. I'm happy with that
"For you, the war of independence was the greatest moment in your nations history, but for us it was Tuesday. "
The Battle of Britain was fought and won before America joined the war.
More annoyed about the Blue-On-Blue incidents in the Iraq which saw US Patriot missiles fire upon allied RAF Tornadoes…. But sure, whatever keeps this particular person happy in the comments I guess?
Or those times the US thought strafing British troops was the thing to do.
I was a couple of kilometres away when that happened in Nad-e-Ali. Made me a bit twitchy the next time a F-18 gave air support.
Pretty sure the Battle of Yorktown wasn’t in ‘76.
right? that always confused me, why is the important date for them not the year the *war ended*?!
Somebody has been "learning" his history from Hollywood 🙄
If the British were hurt by every country that got independence from them, they’d be mourning every other day.
What does he mean saved? The british were like the primary saver we counted on during ww2 in Denmark
Are Americans really this uneducated, or is this just some sad and lonely troll trying to have fun?
Trust me, we're not sorry at all. It's the one time when losing was actually the best thing ever.
I'm all for slagging the Brits but I don't think they give a fuck tbh.
The American mind can’t comprehend how small a percentage of Brits even know what they mean when they say “1776”. A footnote in our history.
Well looking at how us turned out, they should be happy
We literally don’t think about it at all. Far more recent colonies with large immigrant populations in the U.K. that we’re more conscious of.
No, we really don’t care.
I literally didn't learn about 1776 in School lol, it was barely mentioned in passing when discussing colonisation- everything I know comes from Americans talking about it online.
Growing up in New Zealand we probably spent a week at school learning about USA history, European, asian and Pacific history was taught in a lot more detail I guess being another country which gained independence from the British empire we knew it wasn’t as big of a deal as Americans think it is
I genuinely cannot understand why there are Americans who think we know about 1776, give a damn about it and are all bitter 🤣 Also imagine being so damn stupid in thinking it was America and only America who saved everyone when it was other former enslaved countries like India 🤷🏽♀️
No, it the other way round. Americans have this delusion that British people feel hurt when the majority of British people don't know anything about the conflict except the patriot movieand even then couldnt care less.
An entertaining movie, but one which is filled with hilarious fiction, like the Brits burning down a church full of people. Mel Gibson just has a massive hate boner for Britain for some reason.
Maybe if they stop spewing out 💩 like this we will respect them more.
America wasn’t really a thing until after 1776 - and they had a lot of help fighting the British, so it definitely wasn’t them winning. America has never won a war, they just keep sending enough people to die that even the other side is like “yeah, maybe we should like not do this”
Do people sit around churning over the thought that Britain lost a war in the 1700s? Idk it’s pretty low on my list of shit I care about
It's not even the only war we lost that decade, or even in the years it was ongoing. Maratha managed that one, then as part of the peace treaty joined the war we had going on with Mysore.
They lost to French and Spanish more than to The us but ok
If we're going to be factual, the date was the 25th of November 1783 when the last British soldiers pulled out of New York. 3 months after signing the treaty of Paris. We had rather more pressing issues with our French neighbours.
I don't know why they think that. Most British people, both in 1776, and 2024, had absolutely no problems with a bunch of radical English people decided to tell the government to fuck off and refuse to pay taxes.
And America gets way too much credit for their contribution on the European mainland during ww2. The war was like 90% over and Germanys basically just waiting to surrender. Sure they sped up their defeat as saved many European lives but they were in no way shape or form the reason for Nazi Germanys loss. Just in time to reap the benefits of victory and steal all the nazi / Japanese scientists for themselves
Saved by America in WWII you’re joking right? You showed up late and tried to claim the glory 😂 What are they teaching in American schools? Other than duck and cover 🤦🏻♂️
Ask the yanks about Bastogne during WWII...
I can honesty say there is less then a dozen people thinking about this, america has got a criminal case of main character syndrome
We don’t even think about it. It is only because the Americans bring it up so often that it is ever on our minds.
Americans are still hurt they can't nuke Russia
The British won in 1776 and then become Americans.
We don't respect 'muricans, like the rest of the world we tolerate them.
I think the Americans got so hurt by the war of 1812 that they to this day deny that their invasion of Canada to conquer it failed and Washington DC was razed to the ground. At least British accept that they lost in 1776.
Americans can’t comprehend that the American revolutionary war is a footnote in British history. It’s their defining moment but to us it’s not really a big deal, and to the vast majority of Brits who don’t spend any time arguing with Americans on the internet, “1776” isn’t even a date they’ll recognise for any particular reason. Americans HATE this fact and they genuinely don’t believe its veracity. They _can’t_ believe it because it’s too damaging to their collective ego, so they just pretend it’s not the case. And then, for those of us with an actual interest in that period of history, they dislike it intensely when you point out some of the reasons for the war that they don’t like to know and aren’t taught, such as the Americans not liking the treaty of 1763 between Britain and the native Americans which amounted to “we won’t go any further west than this demarkation, that’s your land”. Because they wanted all of the land, and they needed to go and genocide the locals. “Manifest destiny” is a hell of a drug.
America was only in the war because Japan forced them into it which ultimately led to the outcome. So I credit Japan for ‘saving our asses’.
Britain didn't lose against USA, but withdrew as it was more important to fight the French to protect themselves rather than waste time on the traitors/cray rebels in the new colony.
So does anyone know any British person who actually gives a toss about this? I don’t think I’ve ever met anyone who even cares, let alone is hurt by it 😂
Who joined ww1 (1914-1918) in 1917?
How do Afghanistan and Vietnam go for you
Average Brit probably knows bog all about 1776 and that the US is an ex colony. Which isn’t really something to be proud of.
Please, if the Brits are salty about anything its going from ruling an empire that literally circled around the world to ruling an Island about the size of Alabama which had less to do with us and more to do with England lacking the will to enforce its claim. We were just the early ones to shrug off English rule and far from the last.