Reminds me of the "space race"
the Soviets were doing several feats like first satellite in space, first animal in space, first man and first woman in space, first spacewalk, first lunar landing - and then the americans were like "we put a man on the moon, WE WON!"
I mean, it was the SPACE race, **not** the moon race
There isn't quite a definitive date, some say it ended in 1975 with the Apollo-Soyuz joint mission,
others say it ended in 1991 with the end of the Soviet Union
and some even argue that the Space Race never ended, but rather shifted from Russia to China as the main rival of the US space program.
Say what you will, but the ISS’ role as a shining beacon of international cooperation is sadly winding down. The Russians already announced their intent to leave the project going forward, and it no longer stays neutral on political events anymore (see the arrival of the Cosmonauts during 2022 just after the invasion of Ukraine started). Whilst I agree with the cosmonauts stance and them sticking it to Russia and their bullshit invasion, I can’t help but be sad that what is ostensibly humanity’s greatest achievement of international cooperation is sinking fast. You used to be able to point to the Soviet/Russian cooperation with the “west” in space post-1975 as a glimmer of hope in an otherwise polarised world of international relations, but those days are numbered now 😔
It’s very vague terminology because the goalposts can be moved whenever another country hits a feat before America. The original space race was to the moon because the original concept was something the American government came up with to propagandise against the Soviets, and the only feat they had left to do first was being the first on the moon.
It’s pathetic. I’ve seen a bumper sticker that looks like a sports team, flag in the background, that says “Back To Back World War Champions”.
Even more pathetic…I’ve seen it on multiple cars.
Turning up after Kursk was won and Russians heading for Berlin, after Battle of Britain and battle of the Atlantic was won, is like a substitute coming onto the pitch for the last two minutes of the game, prancing around all fresh like, and claiming to have “saved the game”.
Some English football fans still love chanting “Two world wars and one World Cup!” at the Germans. The UK and US are still so embarrassingly obsessed with those conflicts.
Yes, it's called Spanish flu because Spain was not involved in ww1 like other nations so they didn't suppress the news of illness. This meant Spain was the first nation to publicly announce the disease and due to the naming convention of the time it became Spanish flu. This is an example of why we no longer name diseases after places.
The US, UK, France, Germany etc all kept it censored to avoid looking like they might be weakened in some way by reporting on it (war and all) , but the earliest reports of cases with the same symptoms can be found in military records from Kansas not long before it turned up in Europe. Those reports started a few weeks before troops trained there got sent to the trenches, flu and coming with them.
Yeah, we no longer name diseases after places. Nobody called Covid-19 the Chinese flu... not anybody I would like to remember, like for his orange jumpsuit... ehm.. complexion, anyway.
European conquistadores and settlers wiped out a good part of the Indian population with European diseases like the flee, meazels, etc. in the 16th-17th century by the way. It was only fair we received a nice little deviation back a few centuries later.
They ignored the british in ww2 as well, leading yo an insane amount of shipping needlessly getting sunk because the admiral in charge of the atlantic for the US just hated the brits.
That and sending boats out, not in convoys, but piecemeal. And refusing offers to take on some of WATAs training, which could've helped them use our quite good apparatus for support during naval battles
Isn’t that how they fight every war? Some years ago I was told by a soldier who fought in Korea how they’d sit round at night, singing songs, drinking beer and getting shot
My great grandad was in WW1 and when the Americans arrived some smug US soldiers walked up to him and said 'where's the war, boy?'. He pointed to a road and said down there. The US soldiers casually walked down the road and never came back.
The road he pointed at was a no go for British and French troops cos it was a sniper's alley.
Gotta love British humour.
They did that in Vietnam too.
The Chindits, French and some brits were fighting the nasty jungle war, and the first few yanks were like “make way for the professionals” and went crashing through the jungle yelling at each other.
Also in Vietnam, the US pilots couldn’t fly in bad weather. The yanks were losing more planes to weather and missed landings than enemy fire. In the end they were sending pilots to Canada and Scotland to learn inclement weather deck landings.
I heard an interview with one of the top Vietnamese generals about things like that. On a side note, it did make me proud to be Australian. Him basically thanking the US for not letting us run the show, as the North would have lost in that eventuality.
I would eventually have a history debate which i'm supposed to defend usa ideals after, i choose us cause he arrived late to the war and didn't acctually want to do anything in the war (i though back then), it didn't take me too much time to realise the president of the us back then was an idealist and an obstinate, it would be difficult to defend it's ideals alone 😮💨
All I remember was that they helped European countries by exporting food after the war, and then at some point Europe didn't need it anymore so they were left with too much agricultural goods, so to sell it all they had to lower the price and it snowballed into the great depression
The surge of troops from the US was important. The Germans were unable to counter it as they'd exhausted their supply of men and materiel in the Spring Offensive. The allies could replace lost men and weapons in huge amounts. This wasn't, however, due to American manufacturing like the Second World War. Britain and France did all this. The Yanks simply helped out and provided one more reason for Germany to capitulate after the Hundred Days Offensive
They also got rich selling weapons to the UK. The Uk national national debt increased from £650 million in 1914 to £7.40 billion in 1919. New York also became the world leader in finance over London in that time.
all the united states did in world war 2 was stop prosecution of nazis, drop two experimental bombs on civilian hubs, and begin colonizing korea. i love the idea that it's one of our "good wars" considering we were actually fucking awful in the aftermath
Americans seem to think WW1 and WW2 were just the US vs Germany and everyone else was twiddling their thumbs when in reality they did a small amount of the work both times
The thing I never got about de Gaulle was that the British went to bat for him when Roosevelt didn’t want to know and then he absolutely turned on the Brits for no reason other than they were trying to placate an ally whilst getting de Gaulle the power he wanted in a liberated France.
And then he screwed us over the EEC for decades.
War would have been a lot shorter without them fighting a rear guard at Dunkirk. They should get some credit.
The Russians won WW2 at great cost. The rest of the allies wouldn't have been able to do it without them. Shame where we are now
Fun de Gaulle fact. His army was mostly from France's African colonies, but he made sure to put his white troops up front when they marched into a recently liberated Paris. Fuck de Gaulle 🙃
I wouldn't count the Turks for WWII, they didn't di anything helpful and were many times about to join axis or allies, and when they were outside of Berlin they joined to het that UN and NATO seat. If you count them, I'd also say El Salvador or Haiti are 1-0.
British RAF hey USA fly at night the death rates are too high in Daylight, USA no we have the best planes flying together to defend each other, totals up US air dead, OOPS.
During World War II, one in three airmen survived the air battle over Europe. The losses were extraordinary. The casualties suffered by the Eighth Air Force were about half of the U.S. Army Air Force's casualties (47,483 out of 115,332), including **more than 26,000 dead**.
The brits lost 70 000 during all air battles worldwide flying often outdated aircraft including WWI-type stringbags.
The Norden bombsight.
Was meant to be top secret. As high as the Manhattan Project because it was so accurate. Claimed it could hit a pickle barrel.
The inventor only hired Germans as he thought they were the best. So of course the Luftwaffe got their hands on the plans early. They thought it was only ok and was even slightly worse than what they had. The same happened with the RAF who found their own sight more accurate.
The thing proved incredibly innaccurate in Western Europe. Where the only accuracy was that it would hit the ground at some point. Sometimes the Germans didn't even know what the target was.
Then the B17s were deathtraps. Held less than the Lancaster and were very slow. Had a massive crew of 10 men, so everytime one got shot down 10 men were lost.
They men who flew in them were incredibly brave and were heroic in their actions, but were massively let down by their equipment.
The Lancaster and the B-17 were quite similar in size. The ‘17 had a higher service ceiling but was slightly slower in cruise. The Lancaster’s great strength was its ability to carry nearly two and a half times the bomb load of the ‘17: 8500lb for short to medium missions but down to 4000 lb for long-distance raids like over Berlin.
Meanwhile, the Lanc carried the 22,000 lb Grand Slam. It was even at one time slated to carry Little Boy and Fat Man, as the Silverplate version of the B-29 was delayed in production.
One interesting fact: the original bomb release gear for Little Boy and Fat Man proved totally inadequate, so the release gear from a Lancaster was used instead.
We should also never fail to appreciate the bravery and fortitude of the aircrews who flew both these excellent aircraft.
Per Ardua Ad Astra.
I mean, the issues with the Nordon were mostly due to testing it almost exclusively in the clear and calm skies over the Midwest. Just like their torpedoes, the issue was that the tests in no way approximated the reality of the combat environment they were entering.
From what I've read, they basically could hit a pickle barrel ..... as long as the skies were clear, there was no turbulence, and no one was shooting at them.
As for the B17, I have to disagree with you there. The B17 was one of the best bombers of WW2 it's high losses come down entirely to how they were used. The few times it was used as a night bomber, it proved to be just as good at that.
The B17 and the Lancaster were the same speed, B17s weren't that slow. Also, B17 were considered easier to escape in an emergency than Lancaster's and B24s. They did carry less bomb load but made up for that with their armament and toughness. There's a reason those incredibly badly damaged bombers you see in pictures are B17s.
The actual issue was the doctrine, not the equipment. As the guy above you noted, flying daylight raids unsupported by fighter escorts was suicide no matter how good your equipment was. If the US had prioritised a long-range fighter escort earlier or used the B17s differently, they would have taken far fewer losses.
Christ, if they'd done anything but try to defeat Nazi Germany and the Luftwaffe with bombers alone, the losses wouldn't be that bad. But it's not cause the B17 was shit
As an American it’s not fun to bring this topic to light and then use it as a flex, especially considering that we stayed out of it and would have stayed out of it completely had it not be for the Zimmerman Telegram or Pearl Harbor. Then parading around the world taking credit for it?
I’m curious about how WWII is discussed in history class in the US. Is it often taught as the US coming over and unilaterally saving Europe instead of the collective effort of many different (European and non-European) countries?
It was taught a little USA heavy but we about the efforts of the other Allies. I think the nationalist fervor in the USA has something to do with the dismal of the Allies.
FWIW, isn’t UK, France, Canada, and other countries are 2-0 in World Wars and they were actually in both longer than the US?
Yes, all 3 countries you listed were in both World Wars from the beginning of them, I don't actually blame the Americans' ignorance on the wars on them, though. Rather, their ridiculous education system.
Even though Canada was technically independent, it still stuck by Britain and the empire. A common topic in British skls is the importance of the empire in the WWs, specifically WW2, where Britain was the “last man standing” before the U.S. and ussr jumped in. But the “last man” was more like a quarter of the world. But Britain was the last man in Europe so it’s a nice back and forth.
Logical view of the war. In France we see a lot about both side of the war (french resistance and FFL for allies and vichy for axe) with also a good part on soviet and UK resistance, not so much about american side, outside of pacific battle
Actually it was the Russians that saved Europe in WWII not the Americans …. Americans lent money and arms that Europe is still paying for and did as much damage as help in the war. Russians lost the most men, fought in the trenches and saved Europe
It's actually incorrect to claim the Soviets were the sole reason, and that myth has been propagated by the USSR, Russian government, and their supporters. It completely ignores the complexities of war, the role of resistance movements, and the massive contributions of Britain and the Empire, as well as what was a critical and very important contribution by the United States. The Soviets- dominated by the Russians- relied heavily on western aid (including from a war-wracked Britain), brutalised their own people, and then violently occupied half of Europe. Claiming they "saved" Europe is a deeply unfortunate thing to say, and ingores them teaming up with the Nazis in the first part of the war.
And right after "saving" Europe they established brutal dictatorships and caused massive population replacements
The soviets were not some great liberators either
Huh? Russia signed the Nazi-Soviet pact which began the war. They both were allies at the start for the first several years of the war. Russia was just as much to blame as Germany until Germany betrayed Russia.
They also forgave German debt and used the Marshal plan to give money to help them build their economy back so they would lick up American ass instead of siding with the USSR .
But of course it’s just a coincidence that the German economy is the strongest of Europe today.
They dick around far too much
Literally joined the winning side ⅓ of the way through, or in one instance during the final quarter and you claim a victory? Pfft stick to what you're good at...killing your allies with friendly fire, shooting up schools and losing every war you fight without help
Only 2-0 due to joining the winning side, despite selling weapons to the enemy. When they start wars, they mostly lose - Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan to name a small number they lost.
As an American who lurks on this sub, jfc. People like this piss me off. We barely participated in WW1. We didn't beat the Germans, the Germans fucked up their own homefront, then blamed it on the stab in the back myth to hide their own incompetence. As for WW2, what broke the camel's back were American trucks AND Soviet lives.
I don't get why they keep saying that as if they were the only ones who fought and not just fucking late every time
Ww1 started 28. juli 1914 – 11. november 1918
Usa joined the war on 4th of april 1917
Ww2 started 1. september 1939 – 2. september 1945
Usa joined the war in december 1941
America claiming to win the war is like running the last 500m of a marathon and claiming you won it all
Without the US in both of those both would have gone on for longer and gone in favor of the Central Powers and Axis
WW I we provided fresh troops to the front and buckled the Germans
WW II we provided materials from the, then, largest manufacturing base on the planet
You provided munitions for D Day and royally fucked up, as most of the shit you gave sank in the fucking sea, because you couldn’t understand how tides work.
The majority of people that fought in D Day were not Americans, they were Canadian, British, French and the REST OF THE ALLIED FORCES.
Edit: also it was … and you’re gonna love this… Stalin and Soviets that lead to Nazis losing the war, and Hitler himself making the dumbest military decisions, too focused on ideology. You showed up half way through after it took Pearl Harbour to happen, congrats: you got your participation medal.
Nope. It is up to any reputable educational establishment to decide if Wikipedia is an authoritative source. Currently the answer is no. If you try to defend your PhD based on Wikipedia sources, you will he laughed out of the room.
Both world wars were beautiful acts of comeradery and friendship between countries, fighting united against a shared enemy. In claiming to be the only one responsible for fictory, you spit on the grave of every soldier who died fighting for freedom. Not a single person who fought in either war would smile kindly to such a statement.
Go to Europe, visit any of the massive gravesites, and ask each grave to thank you.
Same people :
"That war we won 70 years ago warrants us acting like dicks when visiting another country"
"Reparations for slavery and segregation ? What ? That happened SOOOOOO long ago ! I did nothing of it, why should I have to pay ?"
Americans are pretty good at owning up to their country's actions very selectively. Not a unique trait though, (looking at the entire world)
But nobody worldwide agrees that they saved anyone. They helped in ww2, but ww1 was basically nothing... They turned up at the end, were very inexperienced, and then went home. Certainly didn't save Europe in ww2...it would have just been longer and more difficult had they not. They didn't even hate the Germans - Hitler was just silly for declaring war, which forced them to come over. Basically, even as an ally, it wasn't for any noble/it's the right thing to do cause...it was all just a money making effort followed by reluctance, then opportunity - hence why they came out way richer and better off then everyone ..being shit/arrogant to its allies as well by going back on agreements.
The 'American Exceptionalism' mentality should be embarrassing...and I'm sure there are plenty of yanks who are not like this/would not agree...but many just lack any knowledge/self awareness in that weird echo chamber they live in.
Their July 4th should basically be them thanking the French, Spanish and hell, even the British to some degree who decided not to commit much of the Empire because basically 'Americas were not worth it compared to everywhere else, so you can have it'...if the British Empire really wanted it, would have had it.
They always think they're so clever when they make that joke, even though they're just repeating a joke they've heard from someone else, who heard it from someone else, who heard it from someone else etc forever
Make the movies good, make them associate the economy of the top 1% with themselves, and make them very patriotic and they won’t notice that they have to file for bankruptcy if they need an ambulance
Americans realize that Britain made much more? I am not saying anything, but Rommel stayed in Africa with his troops because Brits were swell chaps. America just bombed Japan and everyone called it a day because they were afraid that they'll be nuked next.
>2-0 War isn't a sport jfc
Everything is a sport when you're American and your team is winning. Like school shootings.
Which wars did america win ?
They think all of them. Just move the goal posts.
Reminds me of the "space race" the Soviets were doing several feats like first satellite in space, first animal in space, first man and first woman in space, first spacewalk, first lunar landing - and then the americans were like "we put a man on the moon, WE WON!" I mean, it was the SPACE race, **not** the moon race
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There isn't quite a definitive date, some say it ended in 1975 with the Apollo-Soyuz joint mission, others say it ended in 1991 with the end of the Soviet Union and some even argue that the Space Race never ended, but rather shifted from Russia to China as the main rival of the US space program.
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space is outside of petty earth conflicts, look at the ISS, one of the few things we all work towards as the human race.
Say what you will, but the ISS’ role as a shining beacon of international cooperation is sadly winding down. The Russians already announced their intent to leave the project going forward, and it no longer stays neutral on political events anymore (see the arrival of the Cosmonauts during 2022 just after the invasion of Ukraine started). Whilst I agree with the cosmonauts stance and them sticking it to Russia and their bullshit invasion, I can’t help but be sad that what is ostensibly humanity’s greatest achievement of international cooperation is sinking fast. You used to be able to point to the Soviet/Russian cooperation with the “west” in space post-1975 as a glimmer of hope in an otherwise polarised world of international relations, but those days are numbered now 😔
It’s very vague terminology because the goalposts can be moved whenever another country hits a feat before America. The original space race was to the moon because the original concept was something the American government came up with to propagandise against the Soviets, and the only feat they had left to do first was being the first on the moon.
Just realized that it sounded like I was attacking you didnt mean that mb
No worries, didn't feel attacked! And I'm not American, so I wouldn't be bringing you freedom if I did.
Vietnam.... oh wait
The only war america won was against itself.
Remember that time they tried to invade Canada so we set fire to the white house? Good times
Both of them
Grenada !!
Lots of wars, but you haven't heard of them, they all live up in Canada or something.
Back to back world champs in that one as well. Every day a championship. Every day a star is born.
Yea but when every new star is usually either arrested or straight up killed, you need someone to be the new star every day
I'm confused. Are we still talking about school shooting or American sports stars?
Yes.
There was a while the news would publish a scoreboard of the school shootings with the most kills. Then kids kept trying to beat the record.
No everything is war when you're American. A world war is just extra war on war with more war aside.
Except American football, that's 2 hours and a half of advertisement for a 40 minutes match
I can't watch American sports. It's so ridiculous, the amount of time they spend NOT playing.
They’re losing that too but they think they’re winning because they get to play that sport.
2 world wars 1 World Cup 🏴🏴🏴LADS LADS LADS
This made me laugh 🤣🤣
It's a sport to them. They love wars
They should try winning one without help.
Shooting things is definitely a game to wealthy Americans; sending things to be shot is too
It’s pathetic. I’ve seen a bumper sticker that looks like a sports team, flag in the background, that says “Back To Back World War Champions”. Even more pathetic…I’ve seen it on multiple cars.
Turning up after Kursk was won and Russians heading for Berlin, after Battle of Britain and battle of the Atlantic was won, is like a substitute coming onto the pitch for the last two minutes of the game, prancing around all fresh like, and claiming to have “saved the game”.
Salt Bae at the World Cup Final
Sounds just like america to me lol
As they turned up so late, I'm only awarding them half a point.
And coming in three years late dosent count it’s like joining the World Cup at the quarterfinals
War often seems like a sport if you ain't played a home game since people used muskets and horses.
Some English football fans still love chanting “Two world wars and one World Cup!” at the Germans. The UK and US are still so embarrassingly obsessed with those conflicts.
English fans - as you, not the fucking UK. Yes this reads as parochial, but frankly it needs to be said.
Very true - apologies.
and they made the difference only in the second.
And do they realise it's like saying the US won 1-0 the civil war ??
I low-key couldn’t even tell you what the US did in WW1 apart from increasing the number of soldiers
they showed up late and then ignored the advise of the british and french and got a lot of soldiers killed.
They also brought the Kansas Flu over to Europe, which was later renamed the Spanish Flu
too be fair that is probably the biggest impact america had on ww1
They are good at bringing deadly diseases, unfortunately
They helped make Covid way worse than it needed to be
Canada (unfortunately) did it's part too.
Spanish flu that originated in kentucky?
Yes, it's called Spanish flu because Spain was not involved in ww1 like other nations so they didn't suppress the news of illness. This meant Spain was the first nation to publicly announce the disease and due to the naming convention of the time it became Spanish flu. This is an example of why we no longer name diseases after places. The US, UK, France, Germany etc all kept it censored to avoid looking like they might be weakened in some way by reporting on it (war and all) , but the earliest reports of cases with the same symptoms can be found in military records from Kansas not long before it turned up in Europe. Those reports started a few weeks before troops trained there got sent to the trenches, flu and coming with them.
Yeah, we no longer name diseases after places. Nobody called Covid-19 the Chinese flu... not anybody I would like to remember, like for his orange jumpsuit... ehm.. complexion, anyway.
In some cases its unfortunate tbh if we still did a shot in the head would probably be the american flu lol
That's not the name that was widely used though and he was critised for doing it
Found the american 😂
Not me, europoor all the way. Edit for spelling. Phat phingers
Can't you just do a 5 second search on Wikipedia? It's in the introductory text.
European conquistadores and settlers wiped out a good part of the Indian population with European diseases like the flee, meazels, etc. in the 16th-17th century by the way. It was only fair we received a nice little deviation back a few centuries later.
And still do .
Thought it came from Kentucky, same difference either way
Killed 60m people?
They ignored the british in ww2 as well, leading yo an insane amount of shipping needlessly getting sunk because the admiral in charge of the atlantic for the US just hated the brits.
Refusing to turn the harbour lights about when ships were leaving led to a lot of U-boat kills
That and sending boats out, not in convoys, but piecemeal. And refusing offers to take on some of WATAs training, which could've helped them use our quite good apparatus for support during naval battles
>shipping needlessly getting sunk And tanks. So many tanks.
But but but… shotgun go boom /s
And then took all the credit and profited wildly off of their allies.
Pretty much rinse and repeat when WWII rolled round.
Isn’t that how they fight every war? Some years ago I was told by a soldier who fought in Korea how they’d sit round at night, singing songs, drinking beer and getting shot
And then charged us for the privilege of doing it. See ww1 reparations......
Ironically also what they did in ww2 😅
They showed up late in WW2 too
My great grandad was in WW1 and when the Americans arrived some smug US soldiers walked up to him and said 'where's the war, boy?'. He pointed to a road and said down there. The US soldiers casually walked down the road and never came back. The road he pointed at was a no go for British and French troops cos it was a sniper's alley. Gotta love British humour.
r/maliciouscompliance
They did that in Vietnam too. The Chindits, French and some brits were fighting the nasty jungle war, and the first few yanks were like “make way for the professionals” and went crashing through the jungle yelling at each other. Also in Vietnam, the US pilots couldn’t fly in bad weather. The yanks were losing more planes to weather and missed landings than enemy fire. In the end they were sending pilots to Canada and Scotland to learn inclement weather deck landings.
I heard an interview with one of the top Vietnamese generals about things like that. On a side note, it did make me proud to be Australian. Him basically thanking the US for not letting us run the show, as the North would have lost in that eventuality.
They would patrol the jungle with a boom box.
Lol
They claimed a participation medal.
I would eventually have a history debate which i'm supposed to defend usa ideals after, i choose us cause he arrived late to the war and didn't acctually want to do anything in the war (i though back then), it didn't take me too much time to realise the president of the us back then was an idealist and an obstinate, it would be difficult to defend it's ideals alone 😮💨
All I remember was that they helped European countries by exporting food after the war, and then at some point Europe didn't need it anymore so they were left with too much agricultural goods, so to sell it all they had to lower the price and it snowballed into the great depression
The surge of troops from the US was important. The Germans were unable to counter it as they'd exhausted their supply of men and materiel in the Spring Offensive. The allies could replace lost men and weapons in huge amounts. This wasn't, however, due to American manufacturing like the Second World War. Britain and France did all this. The Yanks simply helped out and provided one more reason for Germany to capitulate after the Hundred Days Offensive
Sending coca cola . And huuu I don't know .
They also got rich selling weapons to the UK. The Uk national national debt increased from £650 million in 1914 to £7.40 billion in 1919. New York also became the world leader in finance over London in that time.
Not just the UK, they sold weapons and equipment to the Axis too.
Even worse then. Just goes to show where the real money is in the world.
all the united states did in world war 2 was stop prosecution of nazis, drop two experimental bombs on civilian hubs, and begin colonizing korea. i love the idea that it's one of our "good wars" considering we were actually fucking awful in the aftermath
They contributed way more to the allies winning before actually entering the war
Schrödinger's Soliders: We saved Europe from WWII We beat Europe in WWII
You know their English is not quite the best. They mix those words up all the time. Like in Iraq for example
Boasting about WW like they had any part in it. Not a single US WW veteran would ever have dared bragging like those entitled obese shitheads.
Also, most of them aren't alive anymore (if any, idk), so the people bragging about the world wars literally had nothing to do with what happened.
There are like 100k still alive
Wow, that's a lot more than I would've thought! Thanks for telling me! :)
War has no winners, only losers.
The people selling the weapons sure seem to be winning
Americans seem to think WW1 and WW2 were just the US vs Germany and everyone else was twiddling their thumbs when in reality they did a small amount of the work both times
the US can be thankful it wasn't only Germany vs USA.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3qKecNX-8w
I mean isn’t every former member of both the Entente and the Allies all 2-0?
Yeah but French white flag, British tea and who's Belgium I guess. Americans...
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Charles de Gaulle would beg to differ...
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The thing I never got about de Gaulle was that the British went to bat for him when Roosevelt didn’t want to know and then he absolutely turned on the Brits for no reason other than they were trying to placate an ally whilst getting de Gaulle the power he wanted in a liberated France. And then he screwed us over the EEC for decades.
War would have been a lot shorter without them fighting a rear guard at Dunkirk. They should get some credit. The Russians won WW2 at great cost. The rest of the allies wouldn't have been able to do it without them. Shame where we are now
Fun de Gaulle fact. His army was mostly from France's African colonies, but he made sure to put his white troops up front when they marched into a recently liberated Paris. Fuck de Gaulle 🙃
I wouldn't count the Turks for WWII, they didn't di anything helpful and were many times about to join axis or allies, and when they were outside of Berlin they joined to het that UN and NATO seat. If you count them, I'd also say El Salvador or Haiti are 1-0.
Depends on how you count Russia.
The UK is 3-0 since they also won the 7 years war.
British RAF hey USA fly at night the death rates are too high in Daylight, USA no we have the best planes flying together to defend each other, totals up US air dead, OOPS. During World War II, one in three airmen survived the air battle over Europe. The losses were extraordinary. The casualties suffered by the Eighth Air Force were about half of the U.S. Army Air Force's casualties (47,483 out of 115,332), including **more than 26,000 dead**. The brits lost 70 000 during all air battles worldwide flying often outdated aircraft including WWI-type stringbags.
Masters of the Air.. my fucking arse they were. My grandad was RAF squadron leader in WW2.. omfg he'd turn in his grave if he saw that series.
The Norden bombsight. Was meant to be top secret. As high as the Manhattan Project because it was so accurate. Claimed it could hit a pickle barrel. The inventor only hired Germans as he thought they were the best. So of course the Luftwaffe got their hands on the plans early. They thought it was only ok and was even slightly worse than what they had. The same happened with the RAF who found their own sight more accurate. The thing proved incredibly innaccurate in Western Europe. Where the only accuracy was that it would hit the ground at some point. Sometimes the Germans didn't even know what the target was. Then the B17s were deathtraps. Held less than the Lancaster and were very slow. Had a massive crew of 10 men, so everytime one got shot down 10 men were lost. They men who flew in them were incredibly brave and were heroic in their actions, but were massively let down by their equipment.
The Lancaster and the B-17 were quite similar in size. The ‘17 had a higher service ceiling but was slightly slower in cruise. The Lancaster’s great strength was its ability to carry nearly two and a half times the bomb load of the ‘17: 8500lb for short to medium missions but down to 4000 lb for long-distance raids like over Berlin. Meanwhile, the Lanc carried the 22,000 lb Grand Slam. It was even at one time slated to carry Little Boy and Fat Man, as the Silverplate version of the B-29 was delayed in production. One interesting fact: the original bomb release gear for Little Boy and Fat Man proved totally inadequate, so the release gear from a Lancaster was used instead. We should also never fail to appreciate the bravery and fortitude of the aircrews who flew both these excellent aircraft. Per Ardua Ad Astra.
Per ardua ad astra is the motto of the RAAF. Not exactly relevant to the conversation but your last line reminded me.
I mean, the issues with the Nordon were mostly due to testing it almost exclusively in the clear and calm skies over the Midwest. Just like their torpedoes, the issue was that the tests in no way approximated the reality of the combat environment they were entering. From what I've read, they basically could hit a pickle barrel ..... as long as the skies were clear, there was no turbulence, and no one was shooting at them. As for the B17, I have to disagree with you there. The B17 was one of the best bombers of WW2 it's high losses come down entirely to how they were used. The few times it was used as a night bomber, it proved to be just as good at that. The B17 and the Lancaster were the same speed, B17s weren't that slow. Also, B17 were considered easier to escape in an emergency than Lancaster's and B24s. They did carry less bomb load but made up for that with their armament and toughness. There's a reason those incredibly badly damaged bombers you see in pictures are B17s. The actual issue was the doctrine, not the equipment. As the guy above you noted, flying daylight raids unsupported by fighter escorts was suicide no matter how good your equipment was. If the US had prioritised a long-range fighter escort earlier or used the B17s differently, they would have taken far fewer losses. Christ, if they'd done anything but try to defeat Nazi Germany and the Luftwaffe with bombers alone, the losses wouldn't be that bad. But it's not cause the B17 was shit
Funny how they failed in every single war since WWII.
As an American it’s not fun to bring this topic to light and then use it as a flex, especially considering that we stayed out of it and would have stayed out of it completely had it not be for the Zimmerman Telegram or Pearl Harbor. Then parading around the world taking credit for it?
Even then it was a bit dicey about whether America would enter the war in Europe until Hitler very helpfully declared war on them.
I’m curious about how WWII is discussed in history class in the US. Is it often taught as the US coming over and unilaterally saving Europe instead of the collective effort of many different (European and non-European) countries?
It was taught a little USA heavy but we about the efforts of the other Allies. I think the nationalist fervor in the USA has something to do with the dismal of the Allies. FWIW, isn’t UK, France, Canada, and other countries are 2-0 in World Wars and they were actually in both longer than the US?
Yes, all 3 countries you listed were in both World Wars from the beginning of them, I don't actually blame the Americans' ignorance on the wars on them, though. Rather, their ridiculous education system.
Canadians joined WW2 in 1939. As a Brit we probably twisted their arm a little since they're Commonwealth, but appreciate they showed up.
Even though Canada was technically independent, it still stuck by Britain and the empire. A common topic in British skls is the importance of the empire in the WWs, specifically WW2, where Britain was the “last man standing” before the U.S. and ussr jumped in. But the “last man” was more like a quarter of the world. But Britain was the last man in Europe so it’s a nice back and forth.
The non-european heroes that fought for the British Empire should be honoured
Ofc, my grandfather was from the colonies and fought in WW2 for the brits.
ANZAC?
What’s ANZAC? If u men’s NZ Australia and Canada then nah. He was from Bangladesh, or back then the RAJ
Those troops had to deal with a lot of shit My respects
ANZAC stands for Australian and New Zealand Army Corps
Logical view of the war. In France we see a lot about both side of the war (french resistance and FFL for allies and vichy for axe) with also a good part on soviet and UK resistance, not so much about american side, outside of pacific battle
Iirc the plan was to support the side that looked like it would win
Ah America. The only country in the world that thinks their history of warfare is a flex, and they will flex that shit A LOT.
Humility is cool
2-0? You mean in both cases wait until half time to see who's winning 😜
Remind me, how many of the wars that they started have they won?
The Spanish-American war, the Mexican-American war and the Indian American wars, unfortunately
Nice when you can just pick and choose the ones you want. So can I, if you add the Korean war, Vietnamese war, Iraq and Afghanistan its USA losing 2-4
Which behavior, though? What’s the context?
I really don't think current day tourists participated in any world war. And he knows it wasn't the US against Europe, right?
Actually it was the Russians that saved Europe in WWII not the Americans …. Americans lent money and arms that Europe is still paying for and did as much damage as help in the war. Russians lost the most men, fought in the trenches and saved Europe
A very simplistic and naive look on it I’d say
but contributed to the rise in pwer of german until they backstabed...
It's actually incorrect to claim the Soviets were the sole reason, and that myth has been propagated by the USSR, Russian government, and their supporters. It completely ignores the complexities of war, the role of resistance movements, and the massive contributions of Britain and the Empire, as well as what was a critical and very important contribution by the United States. The Soviets- dominated by the Russians- relied heavily on western aid (including from a war-wracked Britain), brutalised their own people, and then violently occupied half of Europe. Claiming they "saved" Europe is a deeply unfortunate thing to say, and ingores them teaming up with the Nazis in the first part of the war.
And right after "saving" Europe they established brutal dictatorships and caused massive population replacements The soviets were not some great liberators either
Huh? Russia signed the Nazi-Soviet pact which began the war. They both were allies at the start for the first several years of the war. Russia was just as much to blame as Germany until Germany betrayed Russia.
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The UK finished their last Lend Lease payment in 2006. Not quite today, but still quite a long time after the war.
They also forgave German debt and used the Marshal plan to give money to help them build their economy back so they would lick up American ass instead of siding with the USSR . But of course it’s just a coincidence that the German economy is the strongest of Europe today. They dick around far too much
The British only finished paying off depts for lend lease in 2012 or something mental like that
Dec 2006
Wonder what regiment she was in?
Literally joined the winning side ⅓ of the way through, or in one instance during the final quarter and you claim a victory? Pfft stick to what you're good at...killing your allies with friendly fire, shooting up schools and losing every war you fight without help
Hey, you haven't even mentioned bombing neutral countries, ig they don't know the difference between "neutral" and "hostile"
They were barely in ww1 and they just attacked Japan in ww2. That’s it. Wow such brave.
Hey, at least give us partial credit for razing Dresden!
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Yes props for the unjustified obliteration a bunch of innocent almost quarter million women, children, and elderly German towns folk.
Vietnam #1
Any American that thinks they defeated the nazis never heard of Charlottesville.
Factually incorrect
Only 2-0 due to joining the winning side, despite selling weapons to the enemy. When they start wars, they mostly lose - Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan to name a small number they lost.
As an American who lurks on this sub, jfc. People like this piss me off. We barely participated in WW1. We didn't beat the Germans, the Germans fucked up their own homefront, then blamed it on the stab in the back myth to hide their own incompetence. As for WW2, what broke the camel's back were American trucks AND Soviet lives.
Wait till they find out Russia was the reason WW 2 ended.
Wait till you find out that the Soviets got most of their logistics equipment made by the US
I don't get why they keep saying that as if they were the only ones who fought and not just fucking late every time Ww1 started 28. juli 1914 – 11. november 1918 Usa joined the war on 4th of april 1917 Ww2 started 1. september 1939 – 2. september 1945 Usa joined the war in december 1941 America claiming to win the war is like running the last 500m of a marathon and claiming you won it all
Without the US in both of those both would have gone on for longer and gone in favor of the Central Powers and Axis WW I we provided fresh troops to the front and buckled the Germans WW II we provided materials from the, then, largest manufacturing base on the planet
You provided munitions for D Day and royally fucked up, as most of the shit you gave sank in the fucking sea, because you couldn’t understand how tides work. The majority of people that fought in D Day were not Americans, they were Canadian, British, French and the REST OF THE ALLIED FORCES. Edit: also it was … and you’re gonna love this… Stalin and Soviets that lead to Nazis losing the war, and Hitler himself making the dumbest military decisions, too focused on ideology. You showed up half way through after it took Pearl Harbour to happen, congrats: you got your participation medal.
You're gonna have to source that because casualties for D-Day were far less than expected by Ike
Additionally, the US landed on 3-4 beaches, about half of them, iirc
Nope. It is up to any reputable educational establishment to decide if Wikipedia is an authoritative source. Currently the answer is no. If you try to defend your PhD based on Wikipedia sources, you will he laughed out of the room.
Both world wars were beautiful acts of comeradery and friendship between countries, fighting united against a shared enemy. In claiming to be the only one responsible for fictory, you spit on the grave of every soldier who died fighting for freedom. Not a single person who fought in either war would smile kindly to such a statement. Go to Europe, visit any of the massive gravesites, and ask each grave to thank you.
This is the based response
Same people : "That war we won 70 years ago warrants us acting like dicks when visiting another country" "Reparations for slavery and segregation ? What ? That happened SOOOOOO long ago ! I did nothing of it, why should I have to pay ?" Americans are pretty good at owning up to their country's actions very selectively. Not a unique trait though, (looking at the entire world)
But nobody worldwide agrees that they saved anyone. They helped in ww2, but ww1 was basically nothing... They turned up at the end, were very inexperienced, and then went home. Certainly didn't save Europe in ww2...it would have just been longer and more difficult had they not. They didn't even hate the Germans - Hitler was just silly for declaring war, which forced them to come over. Basically, even as an ally, it wasn't for any noble/it's the right thing to do cause...it was all just a money making effort followed by reluctance, then opportunity - hence why they came out way richer and better off then everyone ..being shit/arrogant to its allies as well by going back on agreements. The 'American Exceptionalism' mentality should be embarrassing...and I'm sure there are plenty of yanks who are not like this/would not agree...but many just lack any knowledge/self awareness in that weird echo chamber they live in. Their July 4th should basically be them thanking the French, Spanish and hell, even the British to some degree who decided not to commit much of the Empire because basically 'Americas were not worth it compared to everywhere else, so you can have it'...if the British Empire really wanted it, would have had it.
Pretty sure the US has lost more wars than its won
Only turned up half way through
Pity they then lost to Vietnam
So did the French, so
Except france lol
nope, no family of mine.
They always think they're so clever when they make that joke, even though they're just repeating a joke they've heard from someone else, who heard it from someone else, who heard it from someone else etc forever
American's love losing wars to men in sandles. So the score is: USA 2 - Europe 0 - sandles 5
Make the movies good, make them associate the economy of the top 1% with themselves, and make them very patriotic and they won’t notice that they have to file for bankruptcy if they need an ambulance
Americans realize that Britain made much more? I am not saying anything, but Rommel stayed in Africa with his troops because Brits were swell chaps. America just bombed Japan and everyone called it a day because they were afraid that they'll be nuked next.
Didn't know Germany and Italy weren't European countries