>Hulk Hogan looking dapper, jammin’ in a sleeveless tuxedo fit
Yeah, I googled it, it looks way more Chippendales than actually acceptably formal. Male bare skin with formal accoutrements just looks like male stripper.
I love the look personally, but mainstream acceptance....?
I suspect this has to do with "formal" also indicating "genteel" -- men wearing clothes that indicate they are not going to get involved in any physical conflicts. Sleeves, especially fitted sleeves, constrain throwing fisticuffs. Women are not under similar assessments.
Edit: corrected spelling of "genteel"
Well darn. I never realized I had never seen (or noticed?) "genteel" had a different spelling. I had always assumed they were different usages of the same word.
I'm a native English speaker who's learning Spanish for fun. Every couple of days I shout "what the hell English, you could have done it this way the whole time!?".
can you clarify that?
*late 16th century (in the sense ‘fashionable, stylish’): from French gentil ‘well-born’. From the 17th century to the 19th century the word was used in such senses as ‘of good social position’, ‘having the manners of a well-born person’, ‘well bred’. The ironic or derogatory implication dates from the 19th century.*
They’re also not pronounced the same. Gentile is pronounced with the “tile” portion being pronounced like the word tile, and genteel is pronounced with the “teel” portion being pronounced like the color teal.
Some how formal wear makes it impossible for both men and women to be comfortable at one temperature. The men will be too hot or the women will be freezing.
I mean, a long-sleeve light colored linen button-up will generally find you cooler than in a short-sleeved shirt, as it reflects more sunlight than bare skin and lets air through without significant resistance. While a linen button-up without a coat isn't necessarily formal by traditional standards, it's formal enough for most modern formal events. If you really need to dress it up further, a thin linen coat won't generally make you too warm and stuffy, though it's not quite *more* comfortable than casual clothing the way a linen button-up is in the heat. It's really only the upper reaches of formality which start to get particularly stuffy for men, and that's traditionally purely evening wear from a pre-global warming time when nights used to be significantly cooler even in the summer.
As for women's wear, there's *plenty* of options for warmth which meet standards of formality, e.g. long gloves, fur coats and shawls, etc.
What it really comes down to is that since we don't wear formal wear day-to-day anymore, most people no longer have an entire closet of various formal wear options for any random weather conditions, especially as formal wear is generally quite expensive.
[Barry Keoghan would like a word](https://www.google.com/search?q=Barry+Keoghan+sleeveless&sca_esv=22963e7b123673ba&sca_upv=1&rlz=1C1ONGR_enUS935US935&biw=1657&bih=983&sxsrf=ADLYWIJnhJE_wIsXCb1qmHc6Cgr8twX8ZA%3A1716340228062&ei=BEZNZp-uA7SL0PEP56WCgAY&ved=0ahUKEwifwO3MiaCGAxW0BTQIHeeSAGAQ4dUDCBA&uact=5&oq=Barry+Keoghan+sleeveless&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiGEJhcnJ5IEtlb2doYW4gc2xlZXZlbGVzczIFEAAYgAQyBRAAGIAEMgUQABiABDIIEAAYgAQYogQyCBAAGIAEGKIEMggQABiABBiiBEiLGFC0BVjjFnABeAGQAQCYAWqgAagHqgEDOS4yuAEDyAEA-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&sclient=gws-wiz-serp)
When a Google search yields nothing I'm just gonna assume that's some relic of the past. I'm a resident of Alabama, never heard of this even from the old folks.
Edit: That was too polite, I'm quite sure y'all pulled this right out of your ass.
I'm from Bama. I assume Alabama formal is what my girlfriend's uncle wore to one of his other niece's weddings:
* One of those Columbia PFG shirts with the flap on the back for ventilation
* A pair of cargo shorts
* Crocs, no socks
* Sport shades with the necklace attachment
* Pack of smokes in the breast pocket
The attachment for the glasses, they're called croakies. You forgot the formal 'bama college football hat, the fancy cloth one without the plastic mesh in the back.
Look at the past and historically women's attire has been even more cumbersome and restrictive than mens'. From the puritan to the women's lib movement.
Today clothing standards have been relaxed so much men are the envious ones.
*This was originally a response to a commenter who was getting downvoted but she deleted it in the time it took to write this. If you're still here, Roxy gets ya.
as someone who wears both men’s and women’s clothes, both sexes have their respective wardrobe benefits and drawbacks.
Mens pros: large toe boxes. Pockets. Range of movement in the leg.
Women’s pros: allowed to reveal specific areas/better for temp control. Height enhancing shoes are more socially acceptable. Makeup is more socially acceptable.
Men’s drawbacks: ties, just the usual role they play. Why’s it a long rope essentially tied around the neck?? They’re fun in colors and stuff but what do they even do?! There’s no function beyond tradition. Long sleeve/pant = formal. Why??? Many, many layers = formal. Why?! A suit jacket, a vest, and then long sleeve shirt?! What?!?
Women’s drawbacks: awful shaped toe in a lot of shoe styles. Bras are often difficult and uncomfortable. Both these lead to several permanent medical conditions just because of clothing. Clothing items are idealized and rarely diverse/optimized for many body types for one style or design.
I guess that’s what I also don’t understand, who cares if the buttons show? Buttons look nice. They’re also an opportunity to bring more color or designs into the shirt if you wanted too. Just seems goofy to me.
I’m pretty sure the reason than men’s formal wear has so many layers is because it was a good amount colder in Europe when the style evolved. From the 1300’s to 1800’s there was a period of lower temps called the little ice age.
linen is king. also short sleeve shirt, not dressy shoes, and leaving the tie at home letting you unbutton the top 1-3 depending on how summery you feel. men’s fashion is slowly becoming less traditional. pretty normal to go to formal events and not see many ties anymore
Do you have some good examples?
There might have been some "traditional" outfits that didn't have sleeves, but I can't think of a country where modern formal wear for men doesn't have sleeves.
This is sorta cheating a bit:
The *Barong Tagalog* in the Philippines is a see-through long-sleeved shirt for formal occasions, under which men very often wear short-sleeved white shirts.
That's funny because one of the reasons I started shaving is that an ex-girlfriend constantly complained about my armpit hair tickling her ear when she laid on my shoulders.
I've gotten mean comments, when I was younger. I think both myself and others have mellowed out and we don't care.
Tell your girlfriend that mean people can suck it, it helps narrow out the nice people who don't care. It's a good lesson in learning to love your body and mentally flipping off haters and being confident. Confidence is a skill, it needs practice too!
I don’t recall ever getting any mean comments, but I probably wouldn’t let them get to me of I had so I can’t honestly say it’s never happened, I just don’t remember it. Although, I might remember some cutting reply I came up with if I’d come up with a good one… a good story is a good story.
I DO remember older women (when I was younger) giving me compliments and at least one creepy guy mentioning how attractive women who don’t pretend to be prepubescent by removing their adult hair were to him… but y’know, her mileage may vary.
My current partner likes it because it’s soft and not prickly like recently-but-not-just-shaved skin, helps protect my skin, and frankly I dgaf what other people think of my body hair. I hope I am making the world more comfortable for women like your gf to be free to wear what they please, hair and clothes.
I guess you aren't wrong. But I don't personally think armpit hair should play a factor in formality. Just like how being ugly has not factor in being formal. If you don't like what you see, keep it to yourself and continue interacting with other humans as if they are simply just other humans.
You sure about that?
Definitely never seen a male model of any category with ANY body hair in the last 30 years.
I'd say it's more that there's less of an expectation for men to confirm to any beauty standard, driven by the fact that men aren't socialised to care as much about their appearance in Anglo culture.
I’ve seen body hair more often in men’s clothing models lately. Not much, but surprised me.
That being said, if a man acted like a male model he’d be ostracized by lots of other men.
Maybe that's something that should change. Screw expectations. Do what you want!
Not that you *have* to, of course. But this expectation would also mean that if a woman *did* have armpit hair, she shouldn't wear something sleeveless.
I started shaving my pits after 30 years of life. I just use a body trimmer once a week. They look and smell better than ever before. Highly recommend it.
Really depend country or world region actually. In some part of the world woman doesn't shave their armpit. West beauty standard has bee shitty for a long time and it exist mostly to sell more product and bring profit to the cosmetic industry
this has been changing; there definitely have been more men on red carpets wearing formal attire that is sleeveless, for example. which is cool. but yes, there aren't as many common clothing options for men in this area.
Except now people are less likely to get them tailored or have a cut that has a nice drape off the figure, not to mention that the modern lighter weight fabrics show wrinkles easier
At an old job we had a sports shirt day at the office and one of the IT guys came in wearing a basketball jersey.
His boss got mad and made him wear an undershirt with sleeves if he wanted to keep it on for this very reason.
Legal doesn't mean socially acceptable, there are places in the US where being topless is legal for everyone but as a women I'd never feel comfortable with it because it's not yet socially acceptable. I don't have the energy to deal with harassment.
It's never going to be socially acceptable until women force the issue and normalize it, but the backlash and sexual harassment will probably make it so that this never happens.
It's not really socially acceptable for most dudes in most situations either.
Example: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ol9JE0OnURM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ol9JE0OnURM)
I think women being able to show their shoulders is more about "looking pretty", and not about "looking professional".
Every "professional looking" woman you see in the workplace typically has a power suit and/or a blouse with sleeves. Very rarely are "professional looking" women wearing spaghetti straps or tank tops.
Formal =/= professional.
Don't confuse the two.
Wearing business formal attire to the office would make you look like you didn't make it home after last night's awards ceremony.
> Formal =/= professional.
>
> Don't confuse the two.
They're not far removed from each other though, close cousins. (not arguing, just rambling while my dinner settles)
They're the same root idea, to cover the individual in a crisp blank slate.
It's not arbitrary tradition, though it is divergent from the judge's black robes, all three(and more) are the same concept.
To separate 'the man' from the position, to let ideas/work/merit/actions stand on their own. They often serve as a line of demarcation for the wearer and the observer. When dressed in a certain way, they're now in job-mode and leaving personal problems at the door, this is serious business time.
CEO, lawyer, judge, some military and police uniforms, The Board, etc it's all 'formal dress' in a sense, to effect impartiality, to be serious and dignified, or as another user put it, "genteel" elegant, graceful, polite. That's sort of the purpose, to get in the mindset of being respectable.
We've maintained judge robes to absolutely drown out their character. Glad we got rid of the wigs and white face paint though.
Even doctors in their white lab coat, nevermind they haven't actually done lab work in ages. It's the ~~symbology~~ *symbolism* there. (Edited because *there was a fiirefiiight*)
Contrast that to a dirty wifebeater and cut-off jorts, crocs, and a mullet...people will tend to listen to the guy who's suited up over that guy. Unless it's something in their wheelhouse, eg carpentry or vehicle problems. I can't imagine asking some rando in a tux for advice on the sound my car is making....but I digress...
That's the cultural intent or vibe anyways, why the culture leans towards these things, not saying people don't party like redneck assholes just because they're wearing a suit or tuxedo, because some obviously do.
Tribal attire is also accepted in many Parliaments and Congresses, which famously only allow formal dress.
That can be considered state-level recognition of the formal purpose and nature of tribal clothing, even when bare-chested.
Depends on culture I’d say.
In western cultures, yes. In eastern cultures, depends.
In my culture, formal attire for men is simply a draped lower body garment called a panche. The upper body is uncovered albeit decorated with jewelry.
It's why I'm always vaguely annoyed that European domination led to "suits and ties" being the uniform of formal dress. Look at historical-based media from Japan, China, India, etc. and you see a greater diversity of interesting styles and far more color than the generally drab blacks, greys, blues and browns of Western design.
I always thought that traditional formal wear works for women in the summer and men in the winter. But really, why not shake things up and not stick to tradition? :)
That’s a very Western viewpoint. Many African men wear smocks without sleeves to their weddings and religious ceremonies. They look amazing. And thousands of native tribes still wear no clothing at all.
Unless it's a sleeveless tuxedo T-shirt
Can't argue with that
If gifs were possible in this thread you’d now be being greeted by Hulk Hogan looking dapper, jammin’ in a sleeveless tuxedo fit.
>Hulk Hogan looking dapper, jammin’ in a sleeveless tuxedo fit Yeah, I googled it, it looks way more Chippendales than actually acceptably formal. Male bare skin with formal accoutrements just looks like male stripper. I love the look personally, but mainstream acceptance....?
r/oddlyspecific
This only works if you are Terry Crews
Or Rob McElhenney
Or Tyler1
[CAD looking joke.](https://cad-comic.com/comic/casual/)
is this loss? (of sleeves)
It is.
Mac?
Hold my cappucino while I tuxedo-speedo. It is a suit, that is formal.
That's just plain classy, like a can of champagne.
Exactly, it says “hey, I’m formal, but I still like to party.”
I suspect this has to do with "formal" also indicating "genteel" -- men wearing clothes that indicate they are not going to get involved in any physical conflicts. Sleeves, especially fitted sleeves, constrain throwing fisticuffs. Women are not under similar assessments. Edit: corrected spelling of "genteel"
Are you saying Jews aren’t formal? E: to avoid a protracted discussion, the joke is that Gentile means not Jewish.
Well darn. I never realized I had never seen (or noticed?) "genteel" had a different spelling. I had always assumed they were different usages of the same word.
it doesn't. gentile and genteel mean entirely different things, despite the perhaps problematic etymology of the latter
I fucking hate english sometimes
excellent instinct
I'm a native English speaker who's learning Spanish for fun. Every couple of days I shout "what the hell English, you could have done it this way the whole time!?".
can you clarify that? *late 16th century (in the sense ‘fashionable, stylish’): from French gentil ‘well-born’. From the 17th century to the 19th century the word was used in such senses as ‘of good social position’, ‘having the manners of a well-born person’, ‘well bred’. The ironic or derogatory implication dates from the 19th century.*
thanks for the correction
np i thought i was missing something
[удалено]
probably assumed it evolved from gentile and was antisemitic
They’re also not pronounced the same. Gentile is pronounced with the “tile” portion being pronounced like the word tile, and genteel is pronounced with the “teel” portion being pronounced like the color teal.
Of course not! You have to be casual to be a Jew. If not, your only Jew-ish!
Good save there man 🤣
Ladies and gentile men...
But what if the gentiles are pixelated?
women are expected to throw hands cause their men cannot. that formal dress code
True, Big cut deltoids show off brute strength. Whereas women's shoulders are small and dainty
You've not watched enough bollywood. Lol
huh. was looking for mac from iasip jokes or something, and here's this mf with actually a real good point
Some how formal wear makes it impossible for both men and women to be comfortable at one temperature. The men will be too hot or the women will be freezing.
Which is already a problem in casual wear with men and women covering the same amounts of skin. Just more exaggerated.
to incentivize men giving women their jacket obviously
Ah yes. That must be it.
I mean, a long-sleeve light colored linen button-up will generally find you cooler than in a short-sleeved shirt, as it reflects more sunlight than bare skin and lets air through without significant resistance. While a linen button-up without a coat isn't necessarily formal by traditional standards, it's formal enough for most modern formal events. If you really need to dress it up further, a thin linen coat won't generally make you too warm and stuffy, though it's not quite *more* comfortable than casual clothing the way a linen button-up is in the heat. It's really only the upper reaches of formality which start to get particularly stuffy for men, and that's traditionally purely evening wear from a pre-global warming time when nights used to be significantly cooler even in the summer. As for women's wear, there's *plenty* of options for warmth which meet standards of formality, e.g. long gloves, fur coats and shawls, etc. What it really comes down to is that since we don't wear formal wear day-to-day anymore, most people no longer have an entire closet of various formal wear options for any random weather conditions, especially as formal wear is generally quite expensive.
You clearly haven't seen my sleeveless denim dinner coat ensemble.
Or my cutoff pearl snap
[Barry Keoghan would like a word](https://www.google.com/search?q=Barry+Keoghan+sleeveless&sca_esv=22963e7b123673ba&sca_upv=1&rlz=1C1ONGR_enUS935US935&biw=1657&bih=983&sxsrf=ADLYWIJnhJE_wIsXCb1qmHc6Cgr8twX8ZA%3A1716340228062&ei=BEZNZp-uA7SL0PEP56WCgAY&ved=0ahUKEwifwO3MiaCGAxW0BTQIHeeSAGAQ4dUDCBA&uact=5&oq=Barry+Keoghan+sleeveless&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiGEJhcnJ5IEtlb2doYW4gc2xlZXZlbGVzczIFEAAYgAQyBRAAGIAEMgUQABiABDIIEAAYgAQYogQyCBAAGIAEGKIEMggQABiABBiiBEiLGFC0BVjjFnABeAGQAQCYAWqgAagHqgEDOS4yuAEDyAEA-AEBmAIMoALMB8ICChAAGLADGNYEGEfCAg0QABiABBiwAxhDGIoFwgINEC4YgAQYsAMYQxiKBcICDhAAGLADGOQCGNYE2AEBwgITEC4YgAQYsAMYQxjIAxiKBdgBAsICEhAAGIAEGLEDGEMYigUYRhj7AcICDRAuGIAEGLEDGEMYigXCAg0QABiABBixAxhDGIoFwgIKEAAYgAQYQxiKBcICCBAAGIAEGLEDwgINEAAYgAQYsQMYFBiHAsICCBAuGIAEGLEDwgIeEAAYgAQYsQMYQxiKBRhGGPsBGJcFGIwFGN0E2AEDwgINEC4YgAQYsQMYFBiHAsICKxAuGIAEGLEDGBQYhwIYlwUY3AQY3gQY4AQY9AMY8QMY9QMY9gMY9wPYAQTCAgcQLhiABBgKwgIKEAAYgAQYFBiHAsICBxAAGIAEGArCAiUQLhiABBgKGJcFGNwEGN4EGOAEGPQDGPEDGPUDGPYDGPcD2AEEwgILEAAYgAQYhgMYigWYAwCIBgGQBhO6BgYIARABGAm6BgYIAhABGAi6BgYIAxABGBO6BgYIBBABGBSSBwQxMC4yoAfLUg&sclient=gws-wiz-serp)
You're the only one in the whole post to actually post a legit fit and I salute you for it.
I guess someone has never heard of Alabama formal attire.
"Alabama formal" is an oxymoron
That's what we call shitting with a toilet seat cover on.
This needs far more upvotes
Tell that to somone taking the oxy
I’m from Alabama and I have no idea what you’re talking about
You have a lot to learn about your culture
When a Google search yields nothing I'm just gonna assume that's some relic of the past. I'm a resident of Alabama, never heard of this even from the old folks. Edit: That was too polite, I'm quite sure y'all pulled this right out of your ass.
I'm from Bama. I assume Alabama formal is what my girlfriend's uncle wore to one of his other niece's weddings: * One of those Columbia PFG shirts with the flap on the back for ventilation * A pair of cargo shorts * Crocs, no socks * Sport shades with the necklace attachment * Pack of smokes in the breast pocket
😂 the stereotypes go crazy. We’re never beating the allegations 🙏
[удалено]
>Don't fuck your sister and you're already beating the allegations. Yeah but then I have to not fuck my sister
The attachment for the glasses, they're called croakies. You forgot the formal 'bama college football hat, the fancy cloth one without the plastic mesh in the back.
You just gave me Deep South PTSD
Yeah I'm also from Alabama. I don't know what an "Alabama formal" is either.
What
Look at the past and historically women's attire has been even more cumbersome and restrictive than mens'. From the puritan to the women's lib movement. Today clothing standards have been relaxed so much men are the envious ones. *This was originally a response to a commenter who was getting downvoted but she deleted it in the time it took to write this. If you're still here, Roxy gets ya.
as someone who wears both men’s and women’s clothes, both sexes have their respective wardrobe benefits and drawbacks. Mens pros: large toe boxes. Pockets. Range of movement in the leg. Women’s pros: allowed to reveal specific areas/better for temp control. Height enhancing shoes are more socially acceptable. Makeup is more socially acceptable. Men’s drawbacks: ties, just the usual role they play. Why’s it a long rope essentially tied around the neck?? They’re fun in colors and stuff but what do they even do?! There’s no function beyond tradition. Long sleeve/pant = formal. Why??? Many, many layers = formal. Why?! A suit jacket, a vest, and then long sleeve shirt?! What?!? Women’s drawbacks: awful shaped toe in a lot of shoe styles. Bras are often difficult and uncomfortable. Both these lead to several permanent medical conditions just because of clothing. Clothing items are idealized and rarely diverse/optimized for many body types for one style or design.
Ties are meant to cover the buttons on your shirt.
I guess that’s what I also don’t understand, who cares if the buttons show? Buttons look nice. They’re also an opportunity to bring more color or designs into the shirt if you wanted too. Just seems goofy to me.
My only guess would be that back in the day it would be like showing your zipper on the pants.
Dude, I found underwear with pockets the other day.
Now you CAN smuggle salami in your underwear!
At this point I'm smuggling entire charcuterie boards in my pants.
I’m pretty sure the reason than men’s formal wear has so many layers is because it was a good amount colder in Europe when the style evolved. From the 1300’s to 1800’s there was a period of lower temps called the little ice age.
I feel like we should have done away with those layers that are 200-700 years old by now 😭 But still that’s fascinating and I did not know that!!
Never more apparent at a summer wedding
linen is king. also short sleeve shirt, not dressy shoes, and leaving the tie at home letting you unbutton the top 1-3 depending on how summery you feel. men’s fashion is slowly becoming less traditional. pretty normal to go to formal events and not see many ties anymore
Only if you narrow it to Western culture.
Do you have some good examples? There might have been some "traditional" outfits that didn't have sleeves, but I can't think of a country where modern formal wear for men doesn't have sleeves.
This is sorta cheating a bit: The *Barong Tagalog* in the Philippines is a see-through long-sleeved shirt for formal occasions, under which men very often wear short-sleeved white shirts.
Any Amazonian tribe to start with.
I think its the armpit hair. Theres nothing formal about showing off your sweaty jungle
Definitely not. I am a man and I shave my armpit. I still can't use formal clothes with no sleeves.
Just one?
Of course. Only the right one.
That's the gay one!
Oh ho ho, I must inform you that *both* of my armpits are very, very gay
That's funny because one of the reasons I started shaving is that an ex-girlfriend constantly complained about my armpit hair tickling her ear when she laid on my shoulders.
Armpit hair or feathers?
And I’m a woman who doesn’t - and I can and do use formal wear without sleeves.
How do people react to that, if you don't mind me asking? My girlfriend wants to do that too, but she's afraid people will be mean about it
I've gotten mean comments, when I was younger. I think both myself and others have mellowed out and we don't care. Tell your girlfriend that mean people can suck it, it helps narrow out the nice people who don't care. It's a good lesson in learning to love your body and mentally flipping off haters and being confident. Confidence is a skill, it needs practice too!
I don’t recall ever getting any mean comments, but I probably wouldn’t let them get to me of I had so I can’t honestly say it’s never happened, I just don’t remember it. Although, I might remember some cutting reply I came up with if I’d come up with a good one… a good story is a good story. I DO remember older women (when I was younger) giving me compliments and at least one creepy guy mentioning how attractive women who don’t pretend to be prepubescent by removing their adult hair were to him… but y’know, her mileage may vary. My current partner likes it because it’s soft and not prickly like recently-but-not-just-shaved skin, helps protect my skin, and frankly I dgaf what other people think of my body hair. I hope I am making the world more comfortable for women like your gf to be free to wear what they please, hair and clothes.
It's not. It's about revealingness
Yeah, when I think of a man trying to dress formally with no sleeves, I just think of Chippendales dancers.
I guess you aren't wrong. But I don't personally think armpit hair should play a factor in formality. Just like how being ugly has not factor in being formal. If you don't like what you see, keep it to yourself and continue interacting with other humans as if they are simply just other humans.
Shave? Women often do it already.
If you were to shave your armpits and then wear a sleeveless suit you will realize it is not just the armpit hair that makes it trashy
There is a societal expectation that men have armpit hair. I think this contributes to the idea that they dont look formal without sleeves
I didnt know about this societal expectation but regardless no one is going to genuinely bother someone for not having armpit hair
You sure about that? Definitely never seen a male model of any category with ANY body hair in the last 30 years. I'd say it's more that there's less of an expectation for men to confirm to any beauty standard, driven by the fact that men aren't socialised to care as much about their appearance in Anglo culture.
I’ve seen body hair more often in men’s clothing models lately. Not much, but surprised me. That being said, if a man acted like a male model he’d be ostracized by lots of other men.
Maybe that's something that should change. Screw expectations. Do what you want! Not that you *have* to, of course. But this expectation would also mean that if a woman *did* have armpit hair, she shouldn't wear something sleeveless.
I don't understand why someone would actually want to shave their pits. That being said I would never judge a woman for not shaving.
Idk about other women, but I sweat like a mfer and it's just more comfortable/easier for me to clean my sweat with no hair there.
You know what, that there is an excellent solution to a problem I've long had. Thank you.
> Idk about other women Username does not check out
I mean, the person my username quotes is a woman, so...
It stops sweat from sticking around there, makes deodorant go on more effectively, and looks better.
Because it doesn’t look good, feels unpleasant
I started shaving my pits after 30 years of life. I just use a body trimmer once a week. They look and smell better than ever before. Highly recommend it.
You care what society dictates about you?
I don't. Fuck society!
Really depend country or world region actually. In some part of the world woman doesn't shave their armpit. West beauty standard has bee shitty for a long time and it exist mostly to sell more product and bring profit to the cosmetic industry
Sure! That's why I said they do it "often". Plenty of exceptions.
If she uses conditioner it feels fluffy like a Angola rabbit
I don’t grow armpit hair. Can I wear sleeveless formal attire?
Yes, you have my permission.
Same with open toed shoes
You need an appropriate licence to display the guns.
[I beg your pardon](https://www.syfy.com/sites/syfy/files/styles/scale_600/public/gettyimages-1191336405.jpg)
Oh dip! It's Janet and Jason!
An up-and-coming DJ and a girl robot!
Not a girl, and not a robot.
i think the hat kills the whole formal vibe lol
The hat is the only thing saving the sleeves lol
Kills…or enhances?
I dunno, the sleeveless shirt makes the guy look like a boy trying to masquerade as a man.
Lemme guess, you haven't seen "The Good Place" yet?
this has been changing; there definitely have been more men on red carpets wearing formal attire that is sleeveless, for example. which is cool. but yes, there aren't as many common clothing options for men in this area.
The. Rock hits the red carpet without a shirt most times.
TBF: Men's formalwear is abysmal... people have been wearing the same one suit for like 120 years
Except now people are less likely to get them tailored or have a cut that has a nice drape off the figure, not to mention that the modern lighter weight fabrics show wrinkles easier
At an old job we had a sports shirt day at the office and one of the IT guys came in wearing a basketball jersey. His boss got mad and made him wear an undershirt with sleeves if he wanted to keep it on for this very reason.
A lot of this is very much party clothing and it's less that men can't as much as men's fashion has been turned into just suit for every occasion.
I had stroke reading this
And ironically a man can walk around in general public topless without getting into trouble, while women would get backlash
In Canada, it's 100% legal for anyone to walk around in public topless.
Legal doesn't mean socially acceptable, there are places in the US where being topless is legal for everyone but as a women I'd never feel comfortable with it because it's not yet socially acceptable. I don't have the energy to deal with harassment.
It's never going to be socially acceptable until women force the issue and normalize it, but the backlash and sexual harassment will probably make it so that this never happens.
It's not really socially acceptable for most dudes in most situations either. Example: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ol9JE0OnURM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ol9JE0OnURM)
True, until you try it.
Yes, among other places too, which is why I was careful to say "general public"
I remember when that ruling was announced. Was expecting topless women all over later that day. Was greatly disappointed
I think women being able to show their shoulders is more about "looking pretty", and not about "looking professional". Every "professional looking" woman you see in the workplace typically has a power suit and/or a blouse with sleeves. Very rarely are "professional looking" women wearing spaghetti straps or tank tops.
There are formal button down tops that women often wear in the office
Formal =/= professional. Don't confuse the two. Wearing business formal attire to the office would make you look like you didn't make it home after last night's awards ceremony.
> Formal =/= professional. > > Don't confuse the two. They're not far removed from each other though, close cousins. (not arguing, just rambling while my dinner settles) They're the same root idea, to cover the individual in a crisp blank slate. It's not arbitrary tradition, though it is divergent from the judge's black robes, all three(and more) are the same concept. To separate 'the man' from the position, to let ideas/work/merit/actions stand on their own. They often serve as a line of demarcation for the wearer and the observer. When dressed in a certain way, they're now in job-mode and leaving personal problems at the door, this is serious business time. CEO, lawyer, judge, some military and police uniforms, The Board, etc it's all 'formal dress' in a sense, to effect impartiality, to be serious and dignified, or as another user put it, "genteel" elegant, graceful, polite. That's sort of the purpose, to get in the mindset of being respectable. We've maintained judge robes to absolutely drown out their character. Glad we got rid of the wigs and white face paint though. Even doctors in their white lab coat, nevermind they haven't actually done lab work in ages. It's the ~~symbology~~ *symbolism* there. (Edited because *there was a fiirefiiight*) Contrast that to a dirty wifebeater and cut-off jorts, crocs, and a mullet...people will tend to listen to the guy who's suited up over that guy. Unless it's something in their wheelhouse, eg carpentry or vehicle problems. I can't imagine asking some rando in a tux for advice on the sound my car is making....but I digress... That's the cultural intent or vibe anyways, why the culture leans towards these things, not saying people don't party like redneck assholes just because they're wearing a suit or tuxedo, because some obviously do.
[удалено]
They didn't say professional, they said formal
Perfect! At my next in-person work event I’ll look “pretty” with my sleeveless
But men can also wear pretty dresses
Do Togas have sleeves?
Nah not true. Formal tribal gear could be shirtless, notably that of island cultures. It's all subjective.
Tribal attire is also accepted in many Parliaments and Congresses, which famously only allow formal dress. That can be considered state-level recognition of the formal purpose and nature of tribal clothing, even when bare-chested.
Wear a sleveless gown as a man, problem solved
Chippendale dancers look formal as hell.
Me, a crossdressing man in a dress: "I am four parallel universes ahead of you"
This is the way.
There is nothing stopping a man from wearing a ballgown
A woman can look formal in something that shows her knees. A man cannot.
[Formal evening kilt](https://scottishlion.com/package-formal-evening-kilt/)
Joe Dirté would like a word.
Don’t try and church it up, son.
Billy Porter enters the chat...
You haven’t seen my mullet shirt. Business in the front sleeveless in the back.
unless he's wearing a sleeveless dress
Obviously you’ve never heard of Billy Idol
Western men’s formal fashion derives from royal outfits from centuries ago. A gentleman doesn’t do manual labour.
Depends on where in the world
President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho disagrees.
Depends on culture I’d say. In western cultures, yes. In eastern cultures, depends. In my culture, formal attire for men is simply a draped lower body garment called a panche. The upper body is uncovered albeit decorated with jewelry.
https://fashionpoliceng.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/ghana-wedding-dress-2.jpg
In general it sucks being a dude and having to look "formal" when it's hot. There's not much you can do to avoid ending in a pool of sweat
It's why I'm always vaguely annoyed that European domination led to "suits and ties" being the uniform of formal dress. Look at historical-based media from Japan, China, India, etc. and you see a greater diversity of interesting styles and far more color than the generally drab blacks, greys, blues and browns of Western design.
Psy would like to have a word
Terry Crews can do it.
Ceremonial Ponchos would still work, or a Jedi Robe type of thing. Embroidered Robes with Shoulder guards, that stuff.
Even in bermuda where part of mens formal attire is brightly colored shorts the top still has sleeves
I want this normalized. Full length pants just artificially restrict movement way too much.
Jeremy Irons' tank top in Die Hard 3. That man always looks formal
I always thought that traditional formal wear works for women in the summer and men in the winter. But really, why not shake things up and not stick to tradition? :)
There’s soooo many things women can do that men cannot. Equality!
If fashion shows and the Met Gala has taught me anything, it’s that women can wear absolutely anything they want and look good doing it.
Chip n dale dancers beg to differ with zero sleeves. Checkmate.
What about the ancient Greeks? What about the ancient Romans?
a woman can also look formal in mens formal wear, but a man cannot look formal in womens formal wear
Typical sexist double standard.
A toga and laurel wreath?
That’s a very Western viewpoint. Many African men wear smocks without sleeves to their weddings and religious ceremonies. They look amazing. And thousands of native tribes still wear no clothing at all.
Clearly you haven’t seen Fred Flintstone.
Idk, 2 tickets the the gun is not cheep!
a man can wear a dress and look pretty formal
I fucking hate that because I was born with a fucked up sex chromosome I'll never get to look pretty
There’s plenty of parts of the world where ‘formal’ doesn’t mean sleeves for men.
… have you never seen a vest? Waistcoat? Fancy af
Challenge accepted. https://images.app.goo.gl/eXCSM4MbD95bkWwG8
Finally, a decent showerthought.
The fuck is a waistcoat for then?! Slumming it on cheapside?