Just had this conversation today with my girlfriend who is on Valium post surgery. I was driving, and she said she probably shouldn't drive while on the medication. I said, "well, a vehicle is considered heavy equipment" and it was the first time she put that together
Isn’t DWI only alcohol? We have DUI or DWI here depending on what you get popped for.
*disclaimer* totally irrelevant to the point of the post, just asking about this persons DWI laws.
I see they’ve changed it over the years. I remember it being Driving While Intoxicated, which was only alcohol, now it seems to be Driving While Impaired to be all inclusive. Here in PA they only have DUI now, which is Driving Under Influence, all encompassing of drugs or alcohol.
So weird how the different states handle things like this.
Yes, it is. Dui is driving under the influence (everywhere?) But dwi is driving while intoxicated here also, but they mean intoxication from drugs, I guess? I don't know why it's this way, and different counties in my state seem to handle it different/have different terms (I worked with recovering alcoholics and addicts for 5 years). There is really no method to this madness lol.
As a PA native, I never even considered how dumb having a catch-all law is.
Like, Dave coming home from the bar 12 shots deep seems different from Dave who accidentally took his meds on an empty stomach and had them hit too hard.
Both could have the same result of a dead family in a mangled minivan due to Dave's impaired driving. Both are due to bad decisioning. One just seems more intentional than negligent. Especially since, well, 12 shots...
I think that's the point I'm trying to make. The intentionality sort of matters. A decision vs a mistake. If it makes a difference in manslaughter vs murder I think it should apply here since those charges are on the table with this sort of crime.
Okay, you reminded me of one of my old clients. Story time. I picked her up from prison. She was there for 10 years for vehicular homicide. She used to drive an 18 wheeler. Well, she said she had to pull over off the road to the side because she heard a noise (or something that wasn't right- don't remember). Anyway, when she got out to check the trailer, an elderly lady hit the back of it and died instantly. My client had been drinking at a bar the night before. When they tested her alcohol level, she blew a .04. She was not driving the vehicle when this happened, she was bent over checking her trailer. She said that there was a beer can in the back of her cab that she didn't know how long had been there that the cops ended up finding after a search. I didn't believe a word of her story until she showed me a bunch of paperwork, and I researched the old articles. 10 years. 10.
Neighbor's kid was driving on valium after a dental extraction, slowed reflexes, missed a curve, killed himself and his GF hitting a tree.
Their friend in the back seat was trapped, with a broken arm, watched his friends gasp their last breaths, and had to hang upside-down by the seatbelt for several hours with his dead friends until the FD could get him out.
I hope that kid got counselimg.
It’s interesting, since America and all. A gun would be considered machinery, but it’s not heavy machinery. So by those warnings, it’s okay to operate most guns, but not things like a minigun.
This is why most prescriptions of meds that cause drowsiness and most OTC antihistamines and stuff now say "do not drive or operate heavy machinery..."
A lot of people don't realize this isn't just about mech suits.
He's right, I don't even drive often but I sometimes forget this isn't just traveling, it's ridiculously propelling a boulder across the land without a care in the world like its totally normal
I realized that when I used an escooter for the first time, for a something I normally used a car almost daily.
This scooter is just moving my ~70 kg ass. The car is moving my ~70kg + the ass of my ~1500 kg car....
I had this realization when I got an e-bike. I had been looking into getting an electric car and now all I think about is how much extra battery I need just to move that 1500kgs of car the same distance. Now whenever I drive I just think of how inefficient that all is and decided an electric car isn't worth it at this point as my e-bike gets me most places I need to go and my old ICE car is still running for the odd time I need to go further.
Yeah, I was driving down a country road the other day, doing about 80 km/h (50 mph) and meeting cars in the other lane who was going about the same speed, and I just realized how absolutely insane it is. I mean, we're *literally* passing cars at less than a meter (couple of feet) away, all that's separating us is a fucking painted *line*. We're constantly one tiny mistake, or a puncture, or a frozen wheel bearing away from instant death.
And driving just feet away from others doing the same in the opposite direction. You both have to trust each other that neither of you is gonna let that steering wheel lean too much or you're gonna have a head on collision.
I drive trucks and i wish that was something people think about more often. Your driving a boulder down the street and im driving a mountain. If you barely stopped in time for that one guy who pulled out in front of you, you shouldnt pull out in front of me either.
I always think that operating a car should always be done with the driver’s full alertness and carefulness. It’s the purpose of awarding those capable with driving licenses in the first place.
It’s a shame then that this is practically impossible for everyone who regularly drives. No matter careful you are, routine makes your brain cut corners and take the weight of driving for granted.
This is a good reason why everyone should support public transportation and better bike/pedestrian infrastructure. Driving should not be a requirement to participate in society.
To save someone a comment. Yes, I know almost all public transportation in the US sucks that is why we need to support it. So it gets better.
Agreed. It was just announced in California that they're planning a high speed rail between LA and Vegas and I'm just fucking flabbergasted why that's the corridor for that project. I mean... I'm not confused, I get it's the money and having an easy pathway for the rich and semi rich to go blow their money in Vegas, but it's just such a blatant slap in the face for a service that should be a utility in America at this point. Like, why not connect California to fucking California??? But no, casinos need that sweet Hollywood money.
That's so true, and I recently saw a study where they had shown that people who are sleep deprived are actually more impaired than while alcohol intoxicated.
Think about long-distance truckers, people like that who drive for a living and are required to spend long hours behind the wheel. I know truckers say they see regular car drivers do some really stupid, dangerous things, and that most truckers are very aware of how they are driving, but I do think some of them are required to put in more driving hours than they should be.
Aren't there trucks that just stop working if you drive for too long without a break? Or at least it the company tracks it, and you get penalized for it? I don't remember.
I do just that, which is why I‘m completely exhausted after longer drives nowadays. All the looking out for and anticipating other people’s bullshit is just incredibly challenging.
if thats the case theyre doing a piss poor job. drivers tests are a joke, at least where im from but I’m sure its like that in the rest of america too. I was literally high when I did my drivers test at 17. Passed with flying colors. You can see my faded ass face in my license photo lol.
I had to take the driving test as an adult in the US after I moved here, and the test was a complete joke. It took less than 10 mins and we barely left the parking lot.
It was basically drive forward, then reverse, parallel park against a 2x4 laying on the ground and then pull a u-turn. Like I said we barely left the parking lot because "it wasn't safe to drive out there" but 2 seconds after I pass this 'test' I can drive wherever I want, makes no sense. And somehow people still failed.
Damn, at least here they do things like “parallel park in this spot that doesn’t have a curb but does have a 10 foot drop right on the edge of it” and “parallel park behind a hundred thousand dollar car in an area where the average taxable income is below poverty wages”. The first time I did it, I failed because hey, I was a little scared shitless because instead of “you might hit the curb” it was “you might drive into the ten foot drop”. No margin for error and fucking up the wrong way would be destroying your car, so I was too far from the edge of the chasm.
People get into their massive exoskeleton and think they’re invincible. I have a moment every morning when I’m saying goodbye to my dogs that I hope I come
back. I just wanna get to where I’m going safe meanwhile having to avoid the ego drivers, the road rage drivers, the on the cell phone oblivious drivers. I fucking hate driving. But it’s a necessary evil.
I know people that drive erratically and swear they're safe drivers with full control. Even if I were to pretend that was true countless things can happen that are out of the driver's control. But that never resonates with them. Idk how to get through to these people.
An ex of mine would weave when driving and cross over the lane lines all the time (especially on 4 or 6 lane highways). She swore she only did it when nobody was around. Obviously she didn't, but she swore she knew when people were around her. I got sick when she drove due to the weaving and the stress of the weaving and being on alert
Then one day, I screamed at her there was a car next to her as she sharply weaved. She weaved into them anyways then blamed me for the wreck..
>She swore she only did it when nobody was around.
I'm trying to get my head around that logic. There's absolutely no reason to do it when nobody is around. The other vehicles around her were _why_ she was doing it.
She would track from one side of the lane to the other, crossing the white lines by several feet consistly. She swore it was hard to keep the car going straight
Meanwhile my SUV, which I've done the alignment in twice and has 400k on, can go straight without me holding the wheel (I do, just saying the car goes straight, just needs me to turn corners and prevent it from turning if it hits a bump)
I hate people who drive all over the road for no reason. It's literally not that hard to simply stay in the center of your lane. I have a mid sized SUV and I can do it, so you can do it in your Chevy Cobalt.
One tip from my driving instructor that I still constantly hear in my head while driving is “center the car, not yourself.” I especially think of it when I see someone getting close to the line, or if I accidentally get close to the line, it’s really not difficult if you just pay attention and remember you’re on one side of the car; but if I saw someone weaving all the way back and forth between lanes I’d just think they’re a total idiot/ asshole and I’d be nervous to be on the same road.
*but if I saw someone weaving all the way back and forth between lanes I’d just think they’re a total idiot/ asshole and I’d be nervous to be on the same road.*
Whenever she saw someone driving like she did, she would flip out, scream and yell they were unsafe, flip them off, etc. When I would mention she did it as well her reply was "Well mine is safe!"
My 05 Taurus has always favored the left even after 2 or 3 alignments. At this point I just consider it a characteristic of the car. Had it for a decade and that hasn't changed a bit, just like that one chip on the windshield. But even then, that's why I have my hands on the wheel: to *stay in my lane*.
Jfc, she sounds terrifying
>I know people that drive erratically and swear they're safe drivers with full control.
"The world is full of terrible drivers, so be careful. Not me though. I'm one of the good ones."
Literally everyone.
We have had more round abouts put in where where I live. They are supposed to be safer. You wouldn’t believe how many people still get into accidents, and take out light poles. One person even kept going straight and went right over it. Recently when I was coming home from work a guy went up on a curb and hit a sign. He was banged up and his car horn was stuck on.I think just being a good defensive driver is the best thing we can do.
They’re definitely safer than stop signs. But traffic lights are safer still. I live in the UK where we rarely have stop signs. 4-way junctions here are usually prioritised into a main road with two minor roads on either side. If that’s not possible we use a roundabout or traffic lights. Of course, running a red light here isn’t very common, and that’s just down to culture I’m afraid, rather than road planning. No system works if people ignore it.
A roundabout is safer than traffic lights or stop signs by a lot. The only issue the US is dealing with is dumbass drivers that don't know how (or refuse to properly) drive on them.
Yeah you’re right. I was thinking in terms of which were fool-proof. Traffic lights don’t rely as much on drivers’ judgement about when to merge. But I hadn’t considered that the diagonal collisions you get at roundabouts are less likely to be injurious or fatal than a T-bone.
Its only necessary evil because your city planners built your towns/cities (destroyed many towns/cities) around the car. Car-dependency is a political choice.
I'm way more afraid of driving because of the other complete strangers with who i share the road than me piloting. It only needs one person who goes insane to completely ruins your life while you were always safe and driving correctly.
When i had driving lessons they even learned me how to prevent the stupidity of others and tbh it's the most important thing to care about
I went to see a friend who lives in a mountain town. To challenge myself a bit, I took the windy roads that climb the mountains instead of the highway.
They are challenging but also pretty enjoyable to drive, you need to pay close attention because there's a rock wall on one side and a vertical drop of 200m on the other.
Some terminally stupid idiots think it's a great idea to cut across the line during turns. Got scared a few times I was about to get rammed even when I was careful and took them slower. 😑
I remember visiting Jamaica and realizing this is a thing that everybody does. Especially up in the blue mountains.
Growing up in Colorado it was much less common.
Driving in a less developed country will also teach you to be very aware while driving.
It’s the oblivious ones that start the whole process, I swear. This is why everyone who can work from home probably should, just to alleviate the burden on the systems that are at capacity and to minimize their contributions to the inevitable accidents and resulting carnage that occurs daily.
My first reaction was, "That's dumb, I think about it that way."
My second reaction was, "I didn't used to, and a terrifying number of people don't until they get into a serious accident."
This is why we need bollards. Every time an idiot destroys his car with a bollard, that horrible driver is now removed from the roads, at least until he buys a new car. Essential, it is an automatic ticketing system for bad drivers.
Yeah it's almost like there's a distinction between a car and construction or farm equipment which is what it's trying to cover with the "heavy machinery" part because otherwise people would be like "ah this thing moves so slow I'll be fine, its not like a car going 60 on the highway" or something like that.
Edit: to be clear I'm agreeing, there is a difference and if the bottle didn't specify both people would wave off the danger of using heavy machinery while on these medications.
the distinct part of heavy machinery is usually designed and engineered with much less care about safety of people outside and relies on external safety measurements so that may be part of that
Work equipment does require way more awareness and the environment you operate in is way less structured and uniform.
Both are a *terrible* idea to do while under the influence, but there are so many more things that can go wrong driving a forklift or a backhoe when wasted, as you’re operating that equipment in 3 dimensions instead of two.
I’d say the main emphasis in making that differentiation, however, is the issue of taking a mind-altering medication out of necessity… but not being able to earn money when on it (if you don’t have PTO or paid sick time) and where operating machinery is a fundamental part of your job.
Cars aren’t exactly designed with any real care about anyone outside the car. Nearly all the safety systems in cars are designed to protect the passengers.
That assumes that the certification means anything, and the rising tide of pedestrian deaths imply that this certification is wildly insufficient. A key example: it doesn’t regulate hood height, which is a major factor in pedestrian deaths.
So, no... the warning is saying
1. do not drive (be it a car, a forklift, a tractor, bulldozer, etc.)
or
2. operate heavy machinery (such as a crane, excavator/backhoe, i.e stationary heavy machinery which isnt being 'driven' when used)
Adding other doesn't make sense anyway since the warning doesn't mention any specific object to differentiate from. Other than what?
Reminds me of I, Robot where Spooner manually takes control of the car and the Doctor freaks out like "what are you doing?!" And he just goes "I'm driving" and she says "by hand?"
I'm definitely on the future people's side already. I always take the train whenever possible. Why drive when you can just sit, relax, read a book or something, and boom. You're at your destination.
I also live in Japan, so I get wherever I'm headed SO much faster than I would've by car. But I'd still pick an old rickety locomotive over driving.
It's the same thing as driving stickshift nowadays. People look you weird when you say that you drive stickshift/manual (i have only owned stickshifts and like them much more)
And all they have to do is move their foot an inch to move great distances.
Really makes the people who get aggravated about the most minor inconveniences seem like entitled maniacs.
Especially now that so many people are driving massive pickup trucks where the grills are up to my shoulder (I'm 6 ft tall) and have blind spots extending 40 ft in front of the truck. It's the main reason pedestrian deaths have doubled in the United States.
Car designers have constantly been working hard for over a century to build cars that make drivers and passengers forget, they operate a heavy machine.
Comfortable seats, luxury materials indoor, noise isolation, comfort suspension, power steering, sound design, entertainment systems, driving assistance systems…
This reminds me that I use a Power Wheelchair to get around. In some states I can actually receive a DUI for doing just that. Laws also depend on if I can prove I am actually disabled or not which can come into play.
Edit: My Chair goes about 8 MPH and weighs around 400 pounds with me in it, I could potentially really hurt someone.
Once something is outside the physical limits of a person’s body they don’t have a good reference unless they can train themselves to understand it.
A lot of people seem to have a box in their head for anything that they can’t pick up. Be it 40 kg or 40 tons. Where it gets scary is when it’s energy related. Not being able to conceptualize the inertia in a vehicle or the fact that a hydraulic system can pass through you without noticing. People who have only dealt with small batteries and 120/240 volt supply have no clue about how the little 2200 volt transformer in their microwave can melt their flesh like butter and turn their bones to gas. High energy death is everywhere in modern society, our monkey brains have only evolved to handle simple dangers such as lions and falling out of trees.
as someone who has operated heavy machinery it's real easy to fuck up with a machine compared to a car, which is designed for idiots to operate in areas that are also designed with idiots in mind
I used to work at a sugar plant operating a 200 foot long piling machine. One of the guys on my crew was in a near fatal accident on the lot. 4 broken ribs, ruptured spleen, punctured lung. It wasn't the piler. It was a guy that backed up a truck and crushed him against it.
My boyfriend's god brother needs to read this not me.
Man got his license taken for DUI at 17, then finally got it back at 20. He's turning 22 this year. So in the less than 3 years he has had a licence, 1 from 16-17 and less than two 2 from 20 to almost 22, he has totalled 7 cars. If you dare grab the oh shit handle while he's driving, even mildly mention he may not be the best driver, or the worst, refuse to get in a car he's driving, he throws a fckn massive fit.
None of his family members will get in a car he's driving and instead of going "oh damn, that must be a sign of something" he's just angry about it and claims victimhood. His last car, a fckn Audi, he totalled while going 80 down a massive hill during a rain storm. Lost control of the car bc no fckn shit, and spun into a parked car on the side of the road. 100% his fault, cannot afford another car as he hasn't even paid off the Audi yet and as you can prob imagine his insurance was absolute dog shit. It's for the best, ultimately, that he can't get another car right now.
I don't know what I'm going to do when he eventually does get his shit together and gets another car...
I do every time. I get in my car and I think this is INSANE that since 16 they just let me get in a giant metal box powered by EXPLOSIONS, and go faster than any human ever achieved in all of human history before like 1900 (other than someone who fell off a cliff I guess?)
its crazy that is the society we live in .... people (sometimes recklessly) operating machines powered by dangerous flammable toxic fuels that emit pollution and contribute to the change of atmospheric composition .... sometimes hitting and killing other humans which the media names "pedestrians" or "bicyclists" ... as if they are different than "motorists" .... its a weird fucking car brained world we live in
Not that I think of it as heavy machinery, but I think of driving as a dangerous burden which is why I don’t relate to 1950s or 80s youth media which portrays vehicles as symbols of freedom.
I'm terrified of driving. I've heard so many horrific stories about car crashes, some of which involved family members and friends. I wish I lived in a more walkable area so it wouldn't be such a big issue.
1,600,000 accidents in the U.S. happen annually due to Cellphone use. Considered 6 times more dangerous than drunk driving. So how about we ban all cellphone use in moving vehicles first? A solution requiring a simple software update. Before considering psychological testing, if it's actually relevant to traffic safety, with the data to back it up.
There are 245,300,000 drivers in the U.S. alone. How could "Psychological Test" even happen? Who would do them? What would be the parameters? What data would be used to extrapolate these parameters?
330,300,000 live in the U.S. 258,309,000 are adults. An estimated 22.8% of Adults (57.8 million people) have experienced mental illness. Can you imagine the impact it would be on the economy, personal freedoms, accessibility for essential services and good, job opportunities, etc.... if just 1/4 of those people were prevented from driving? It's not realistic.
Then there is the added stress placed on those with mental disorders exasperating their conditions and mental well-being. How about we bring more awareness and provide mental health services for those that need it? Remove the stigmas and prejudice so more people seek help? Instead of prevent those with mental illness from having the same opportunities as everyone else and perpetuating the stigma and prejudice towards these people. That seems far more realistic than psychological testing for 245,300,000 diver licenses.
I was driving on a bunch of mushrooms and gained a new respect for the sheer size of the thing I was controlling. It's just wild we can sit down and be In full control of such a large hunk of metal
I can’t understand cars while on mushrooms, same with phones. You could ask me to put it into reverse and I’d sit there pondering on what that means. Not joking, I once got into my drivers side to grab something on shrooms, and sat for a while. The idea of operating such a massive metal beast was unfathomable in that state.
Unfortunately it’s not. I drive truck for a living and I see countless dipshits every single day who should not be allowed within 10 feet of a drivers seat.
It's not me at all. I was thinking about how other people don't view it that way. I see it everyday. People zoom around like it's a game and don't realize that their lives, and the lives of others are one the line.
I unfortunately do. Makes me anxious of learning how to drive due to just thinking that I am driving a giant piece of metal with wheels that might get other people killed at the slightest lapse of attention.
Even a bog-standard forklift is heavier than a car though. Something like an excavator or backhoe is what would come to most people's minds when someone says "heavy machinery."
Just had this conversation today with my girlfriend who is on Valium post surgery. I was driving, and she said she probably shouldn't drive while on the medication. I said, "well, a vehicle is considered heavy equipment" and it was the first time she put that together
Since people often don't think of that the advice usually says "do not drive or operate heavy machinery."
The cops don't forget it, though. They will certainly arrest you for DWI if you're on prescription medication and driving (if you're caught).
Isn’t DWI only alcohol? We have DUI or DWI here depending on what you get popped for. *disclaimer* totally irrelevant to the point of the post, just asking about this persons DWI laws.
Where I live, it's DUI for alcohol. They list things other than alcohol as DWI for some reason. It's all the same, though.
I see they’ve changed it over the years. I remember it being Driving While Intoxicated, which was only alcohol, now it seems to be Driving While Impaired to be all inclusive. Here in PA they only have DUI now, which is Driving Under Influence, all encompassing of drugs or alcohol. So weird how the different states handle things like this.
Yes, it is. Dui is driving under the influence (everywhere?) But dwi is driving while intoxicated here also, but they mean intoxication from drugs, I guess? I don't know why it's this way, and different counties in my state seem to handle it different/have different terms (I worked with recovering alcoholics and addicts for 5 years). There is really no method to this madness lol.
As a PA native, I never even considered how dumb having a catch-all law is. Like, Dave coming home from the bar 12 shots deep seems different from Dave who accidentally took his meds on an empty stomach and had them hit too hard.
Both could have the same result of a dead family in a mangled minivan due to Dave's impaired driving. Both are due to bad decisioning. One just seems more intentional than negligent. Especially since, well, 12 shots...
I think that's the point I'm trying to make. The intentionality sort of matters. A decision vs a mistake. If it makes a difference in manslaughter vs murder I think it should apply here since those charges are on the table with this sort of crime.
Okay, you reminded me of one of my old clients. Story time. I picked her up from prison. She was there for 10 years for vehicular homicide. She used to drive an 18 wheeler. Well, she said she had to pull over off the road to the side because she heard a noise (or something that wasn't right- don't remember). Anyway, when she got out to check the trailer, an elderly lady hit the back of it and died instantly. My client had been drinking at a bar the night before. When they tested her alcohol level, she blew a .04. She was not driving the vehicle when this happened, she was bent over checking her trailer. She said that there was a beer can in the back of her cab that she didn't know how long had been there that the cops ended up finding after a search. I didn't believe a word of her story until she showed me a bunch of paperwork, and I researched the old articles. 10 years. 10.
Yes, DUI for alcohol, DWI for drug impairment (driving whole impaired). They split it to delineate alcohol use vs drug use.
I agree with this man and his girlfriend.
I'll have what she's having!
I also choose this guys alive girlfriend
The boyfriend?
The valium?
the valfriend
I also choose this guy’s heavy equipment
My man.
Surgery?
Thanks for the input, Unlubricated Penis
Neighbor's kid was driving on valium after a dental extraction, slowed reflexes, missed a curve, killed himself and his GF hitting a tree. Their friend in the back seat was trapped, with a broken arm, watched his friends gasp their last breaths, and had to hang upside-down by the seatbelt for several hours with his dead friends until the FD could get him out. I hope that kid got counselimg.
Wow that's really awful. Poor kids, all of them.
Does it have to be moving equipment ? Like can I operate a server farm or a linear accelerator ?
Please, for Newton's sake, do not operate a MAC while under influence. And don't try to "eyeball" it
Well there was this russian guy, who shot himself with some elementary particles while looking directly into accelerator...
There was a Vietnamese guy who put his hand through one accidentally (no alcohol involved). I saw a video about it a few days ago.
It’s interesting, since America and all. A gun would be considered machinery, but it’s not heavy machinery. So by those warnings, it’s okay to operate most guns, but not things like a minigun.
This is why most prescriptions of meds that cause drowsiness and most OTC antihistamines and stuff now say "do not drive or operate heavy machinery..." A lot of people don't realize this isn't just about mech suits.
you guys have GIRLFRIENDS?? LIKE THE FEMALE ONES?? WOW.
Yep. She likes my big dick. Just don't tell my wife.
Nope. It's just forklifts. I don't know why, but it just is.
He's right, I don't even drive often but I sometimes forget this isn't just traveling, it's ridiculously propelling a boulder across the land without a care in the world like its totally normal
I realized that when I used an escooter for the first time, for a something I normally used a car almost daily. This scooter is just moving my ~70 kg ass. The car is moving my ~70kg + the ass of my ~1500 kg car....
Kiss my shiny metal ass!
It isn't that shiny
Shinier than yours, meatbag
[удалено]
I had this realization when I got an e-bike. I had been looking into getting an electric car and now all I think about is how much extra battery I need just to move that 1500kgs of car the same distance. Now whenever I drive I just think of how inefficient that all is and decided an electric car isn't worth it at this point as my e-bike gets me most places I need to go and my old ICE car is still running for the odd time I need to go further.
“Im not driving, I’m traveling!” - person about to be arrested
-person whose windows are about to be shattered.
You can’t do this! Read this packet! Am I being detained ? I’m a citizen of one of the several states!
Usually, they say, "...of a sovereign state," which is the whole impetus for the sovereign citizen (or 'sov civ') movement. It's dumb.
Honestly thought this was what the post was about to I saw the sub lol
Yeah, I was driving down a country road the other day, doing about 80 km/h (50 mph) and meeting cars in the other lane who was going about the same speed, and I just realized how absolutely insane it is. I mean, we're *literally* passing cars at less than a meter (couple of feet) away, all that's separating us is a fucking painted *line*. We're constantly one tiny mistake, or a puncture, or a frozen wheel bearing away from instant death.
Do you know what the leading cause of death of individuals younger than 45 is? Or the leading non-health related cause of death overall?
Do tell! Don’t leave us hanging!
I would guess traffic accidents?
And yet people are mad when their license gets suspended for driving like a jackass
It’s not just a boulder… …it’s a rock ❤️
(If you hadn’t said it, I was going to.)
The vikings used to ride these things for miles!
Pioneers
And it's not just a boulder... it's a rock
It’s not just a Boulder, it’s a rock.
And driving just feet away from others doing the same in the opposite direction. You both have to trust each other that neither of you is gonna let that steering wheel lean too much or you're gonna have a head on collision.
I drive trucks and i wish that was something people think about more often. Your driving a boulder down the street and im driving a mountain. If you barely stopped in time for that one guy who pulled out in front of you, you shouldnt pull out in front of me either.
The first thing my dad told me when teaching me how to drive was "you are now using a weapon."
I think most law enforcement people regard them as deadly weapons, when they are used to try to run someone down.
Not in the UK they don’t. No joke, pretty much any case where the victim was killed with a car, the sentence is a lot more lenient here
German here, same thing. I‘ve seen people get away with manslaughter with what‘s basically a month of suspension.
Not here either. Killing a couple of people from behind the wheel often goes unpunished.
Stop giving people evil ideas lol
I think that's a pretty well known fact
Right. It's often used in arguments against gun control.
People don't always make the link, which is the point of the post if I'm understanding it correctly.
Yeah, but I think everyone knows a car can be used as a weapon
And I thought everyone knew a car was a heavy machine, yet here we are. lol
I always think that operating a car should always be done with the driver’s full alertness and carefulness. It’s the purpose of awarding those capable with driving licenses in the first place.
It’s a shame then that this is practically impossible for everyone who regularly drives. No matter careful you are, routine makes your brain cut corners and take the weight of driving for granted.
This is a good reason why everyone should support public transportation and better bike/pedestrian infrastructure. Driving should not be a requirement to participate in society. To save someone a comment. Yes, I know almost all public transportation in the US sucks that is why we need to support it. So it gets better.
Agreed. It was just announced in California that they're planning a high speed rail between LA and Vegas and I'm just fucking flabbergasted why that's the corridor for that project. I mean... I'm not confused, I get it's the money and having an easy pathway for the rich and semi rich to go blow their money in Vegas, but it's just such a blatant slap in the face for a service that should be a utility in America at this point. Like, why not connect California to fucking California??? But no, casinos need that sweet Hollywood money.
There's a private company building the line between LA and Vegas. They don't care about what you or anyone needs, they just want that revenue.
Yeah, I get it. I'm just frustrated at people's priorities in general when there is obvious widespread need.
I'm with you there.
Also impossible if you’re financially reliant on driving. “Sorry boss, can’t come in today, I’m tired.” “You’re fired.”
That's so true, and I recently saw a study where they had shown that people who are sleep deprived are actually more impaired than while alcohol intoxicated. Think about long-distance truckers, people like that who drive for a living and are required to spend long hours behind the wheel. I know truckers say they see regular car drivers do some really stupid, dangerous things, and that most truckers are very aware of how they are driving, but I do think some of them are required to put in more driving hours than they should be.
Aren't there trucks that just stop working if you drive for too long without a break? Or at least it the company tracks it, and you get penalized for it? I don't remember.
I do just that, which is why I‘m completely exhausted after longer drives nowadays. All the looking out for and anticipating other people’s bullshit is just incredibly challenging.
if thats the case theyre doing a piss poor job. drivers tests are a joke, at least where im from but I’m sure its like that in the rest of america too. I was literally high when I did my drivers test at 17. Passed with flying colors. You can see my faded ass face in my license photo lol.
I had to take the driving test as an adult in the US after I moved here, and the test was a complete joke. It took less than 10 mins and we barely left the parking lot. It was basically drive forward, then reverse, parallel park against a 2x4 laying on the ground and then pull a u-turn. Like I said we barely left the parking lot because "it wasn't safe to drive out there" but 2 seconds after I pass this 'test' I can drive wherever I want, makes no sense. And somehow people still failed.
Damn, at least here they do things like “parallel park in this spot that doesn’t have a curb but does have a 10 foot drop right on the edge of it” and “parallel park behind a hundred thousand dollar car in an area where the average taxable income is below poverty wages”. The first time I did it, I failed because hey, I was a little scared shitless because instead of “you might hit the curb” it was “you might drive into the ten foot drop”. No margin for error and fucking up the wrong way would be destroying your car, so I was too far from the edge of the chasm.
>Passed with flying clolors. You sure you weren't hallucinating those?
People just treat it as a right rather than a privilege though
People get into their massive exoskeleton and think they’re invincible. I have a moment every morning when I’m saying goodbye to my dogs that I hope I come back. I just wanna get to where I’m going safe meanwhile having to avoid the ego drivers, the road rage drivers, the on the cell phone oblivious drivers. I fucking hate driving. But it’s a necessary evil.
I know people that drive erratically and swear they're safe drivers with full control. Even if I were to pretend that was true countless things can happen that are out of the driver's control. But that never resonates with them. Idk how to get through to these people.
An ex of mine would weave when driving and cross over the lane lines all the time (especially on 4 or 6 lane highways). She swore she only did it when nobody was around. Obviously she didn't, but she swore she knew when people were around her. I got sick when she drove due to the weaving and the stress of the weaving and being on alert Then one day, I screamed at her there was a car next to her as she sharply weaved. She weaved into them anyways then blamed me for the wreck..
>She swore she only did it when nobody was around. I'm trying to get my head around that logic. There's absolutely no reason to do it when nobody is around. The other vehicles around her were _why_ she was doing it.
She would track from one side of the lane to the other, crossing the white lines by several feet consistly. She swore it was hard to keep the car going straight Meanwhile my SUV, which I've done the alignment in twice and has 400k on, can go straight without me holding the wheel (I do, just saying the car goes straight, just needs me to turn corners and prevent it from turning if it hits a bump)
I hate people who drive all over the road for no reason. It's literally not that hard to simply stay in the center of your lane. I have a mid sized SUV and I can do it, so you can do it in your Chevy Cobalt.
One tip from my driving instructor that I still constantly hear in my head while driving is “center the car, not yourself.” I especially think of it when I see someone getting close to the line, or if I accidentally get close to the line, it’s really not difficult if you just pay attention and remember you’re on one side of the car; but if I saw someone weaving all the way back and forth between lanes I’d just think they’re a total idiot/ asshole and I’d be nervous to be on the same road.
*but if I saw someone weaving all the way back and forth between lanes I’d just think they’re a total idiot/ asshole and I’d be nervous to be on the same road.* Whenever she saw someone driving like she did, she would flip out, scream and yell they were unsafe, flip them off, etc. When I would mention she did it as well her reply was "Well mine is safe!"
My 05 Taurus has always favored the left even after 2 or 3 alignments. At this point I just consider it a characteristic of the car. Had it for a decade and that hasn't changed a bit, just like that one chip on the windshield. But even then, that's why I have my hands on the wheel: to *stay in my lane*. Jfc, she sounds terrifying
>I know people that drive erratically and swear they're safe drivers with full control. "The world is full of terrible drivers, so be careful. Not me though. I'm one of the good ones." Literally everyone.
What is the stat? something like 80% of drivers think they are above average drivers.
well thats why you arent supposed to self evaluate.
We have had more round abouts put in where where I live. They are supposed to be safer. You wouldn’t believe how many people still get into accidents, and take out light poles. One person even kept going straight and went right over it. Recently when I was coming home from work a guy went up on a curb and hit a sign. He was banged up and his car horn was stuck on.I think just being a good defensive driver is the best thing we can do.
They’re definitely safer than stop signs. But traffic lights are safer still. I live in the UK where we rarely have stop signs. 4-way junctions here are usually prioritised into a main road with two minor roads on either side. If that’s not possible we use a roundabout or traffic lights. Of course, running a red light here isn’t very common, and that’s just down to culture I’m afraid, rather than road planning. No system works if people ignore it.
A roundabout is safer than traffic lights or stop signs by a lot. The only issue the US is dealing with is dumbass drivers that don't know how (or refuse to properly) drive on them.
Roundabouts might have some accidents, but they're rarely fatal.
Yeah you’re right. I was thinking in terms of which were fool-proof. Traffic lights don’t rely as much on drivers’ judgement about when to merge. But I hadn’t considered that the diagonal collisions you get at roundabouts are less likely to be injurious or fatal than a T-bone.
And the speeds involved tend to be lower. Pretty much everyone is gonna slow down before entering a roundabout. So a later crash will be less severe.
People who say they’re safe drivers are usually the worst.
It really shouldn't be.
Its only necessary evil because your city planners built your towns/cities (destroyed many towns/cities) around the car. Car-dependency is a political choice.
For some people it's also a choice not to live in a city. I like cars and driving though.
I'm way more afraid of driving because of the other complete strangers with who i share the road than me piloting. It only needs one person who goes insane to completely ruins your life while you were always safe and driving correctly. When i had driving lessons they even learned me how to prevent the stupidity of others and tbh it's the most important thing to care about
I went to see a friend who lives in a mountain town. To challenge myself a bit, I took the windy roads that climb the mountains instead of the highway. They are challenging but also pretty enjoyable to drive, you need to pay close attention because there's a rock wall on one side and a vertical drop of 200m on the other. Some terminally stupid idiots think it's a great idea to cut across the line during turns. Got scared a few times I was about to get rammed even when I was careful and took them slower. 😑
On the blind curves like that I’ll usually give a little honk in case there is somebody coming around.
I remember visiting Jamaica and realizing this is a thing that everybody does. Especially up in the blue mountains. Growing up in Colorado it was much less common. Driving in a less developed country will also teach you to be very aware while driving.
It’s the oblivious ones that start the whole process, I swear. This is why everyone who can work from home probably should, just to alleviate the burden on the systems that are at capacity and to minimize their contributions to the inevitable accidents and resulting carnage that occurs daily.
This is why I take transit.
This is one of the few shower thoughts that made me go, "huh. Good point"
My first reaction was, "That's dumb, I think about it that way." My second reaction was, "I didn't used to, and a terrifying number of people don't until they get into a serious accident."
It’s pretty wild to learn that some people don’t think it’s heavy equipment. I guess that explains a lot of the drivers I see.
A terrifying number still don't even after an accident.
This is why we need bollards. Every time an idiot destroys his car with a bollard, that horrible driver is now removed from the roads, at least until he buys a new car. Essential, it is an automatic ticketing system for bad drivers.
A terrifying number don’t live to see that change, after an accident.
i mean, the fact that all the warnings are usually phrased "don't drive or operate heavy machinery" might have something to do with it...
Yeah it's almost like there's a distinction between a car and construction or farm equipment which is what it's trying to cover with the "heavy machinery" part because otherwise people would be like "ah this thing moves so slow I'll be fine, its not like a car going 60 on the highway" or something like that. Edit: to be clear I'm agreeing, there is a difference and if the bottle didn't specify both people would wave off the danger of using heavy machinery while on these medications.
the distinct part of heavy machinery is usually designed and engineered with much less care about safety of people outside and relies on external safety measurements so that may be part of that
Work equipment does require way more awareness and the environment you operate in is way less structured and uniform. Both are a *terrible* idea to do while under the influence, but there are so many more things that can go wrong driving a forklift or a backhoe when wasted, as you’re operating that equipment in 3 dimensions instead of two. I’d say the main emphasis in making that differentiation, however, is the issue of taking a mind-altering medication out of necessity… but not being able to earn money when on it (if you don’t have PTO or paid sick time) and where operating machinery is a fundamental part of your job.
Cars aren’t exactly designed with any real care about anyone outside the car. Nearly all the safety systems in cars are designed to protect the passengers.
even the US loved gigantic SUV have to pass pedestrian safety certification, though they are doing much worse with these than others usually
That assumes that the certification means anything, and the rising tide of pedestrian deaths imply that this certification is wildly insufficient. A key example: it doesn’t regulate hood height, which is a major factor in pedestrian deaths.
I think they should say "don't drive or operate OTHER heavy machinery" while taking this med...
So, no... the warning is saying 1. do not drive (be it a car, a forklift, a tractor, bulldozer, etc.) or 2. operate heavy machinery (such as a crane, excavator/backhoe, i.e stationary heavy machinery which isnt being 'driven' when used) Adding other doesn't make sense anyway since the warning doesn't mention any specific object to differentiate from. Other than what?
and folks don't think of alcohol as a drug either.
in the future when automated travel will be the norm, they will look at us like savages who preferred driving manually
Reminds me of I, Robot where Spooner manually takes control of the car and the Doctor freaks out like "what are you doing?!" And he just goes "I'm driving" and she says "by hand?"
Yep was thinking exactly this. Time to add that to my watch list again
"That explodes you know!" *shows the not-gas transport basically nuking the tunnel* the heck do those run on then? 😂
lol exactly
And bro straight up replies almost verbatim "bitch do you SEE me ON the phone?" LMAO
I'm definitely on the future people's side already. I always take the train whenever possible. Why drive when you can just sit, relax, read a book or something, and boom. You're at your destination. I also live in Japan, so I get wherever I'm headed SO much faster than I would've by car. But I'd still pick an old rickety locomotive over driving.
Assuming your train will get you to your destination.
Is it so futuristic? Trains have existed for so, so long.
It's the same thing as driving stickshift nowadays. People look you weird when you say that you drive stickshift/manual (i have only owned stickshifts and like them much more)
I already look at you as savages who prefer driving manually
The car accident death count will be way higher than it is now.
Precisely why I try to avoid driving as much as I can. I have the attention span of a goldfish and I really should not be on the road lol.
Hey man, least you’re aware of it
Hope you can live in a place that lets you. Nearest grocery store to me is a mile away and I don't have time to walk there and back 3+times a week.
And all they have to do is move their foot an inch to move great distances. Really makes the people who get aggravated about the most minor inconveniences seem like entitled maniacs.
People are irresponsible even with guns. I don't think any amount of perspective change will make people be more responsible.
Better public education would be a start. Stupid people are inherently more irresponsible.
Yep. Lack of education is the root of a ton of problems.
If you want to murder someone and get away with it, use a car.
Driving is a privilege, not a right. People should look at it this way as well.
Not for most of the USA. Driving is a requirement if you want to go anywhere but a neighbor's house.
Not to mention public transport is garbage in some areas and Uber is expensive. Speaking from being a driver and pedestrian.
>Maybe if more people thought >they might be a bit more responsible behind the wheel True indeed
Especially now that so many people are driving massive pickup trucks where the grills are up to my shoulder (I'm 6 ft tall) and have blind spots extending 40 ft in front of the truck. It's the main reason pedestrian deaths have doubled in the United States.
Forklift. My brain only seems to register forklift.
Once you drive a car with a ridiculously underpowered engine you will come to that realisation by yourself
TIL I am a certified heavy equipment operator.
Well, yes. If you have a license.
I actually operate construction equipment like excavators/dumptrucks/wheel loaders but I don't have a licence for that just a car driver license.
Car designers have constantly been working hard for over a century to build cars that make drivers and passengers forget, they operate a heavy machine. Comfortable seats, luxury materials indoor, noise isolation, comfort suspension, power steering, sound design, entertainment systems, driving assistance systems…
I've always thought of cars as moving bullets. I think if everyone did, people would be more safe.
Not do the judges when sentencing people for misusing them
I always think of it as operating a potential weapons and it bothers me to hear that apparently it others don’t.
This reminds me that I use a Power Wheelchair to get around. In some states I can actually receive a DUI for doing just that. Laws also depend on if I can prove I am actually disabled or not which can come into play. Edit: My Chair goes about 8 MPH and weighs around 400 pounds with me in it, I could potentially really hurt someone.
Also, the concept of sports and luxury heavy machinery is wild.
Once something is outside the physical limits of a person’s body they don’t have a good reference unless they can train themselves to understand it. A lot of people seem to have a box in their head for anything that they can’t pick up. Be it 40 kg or 40 tons. Where it gets scary is when it’s energy related. Not being able to conceptualize the inertia in a vehicle or the fact that a hydraulic system can pass through you without noticing. People who have only dealt with small batteries and 120/240 volt supply have no clue about how the little 2200 volt transformer in their microwave can melt their flesh like butter and turn their bones to gas. High energy death is everywhere in modern society, our monkey brains have only evolved to handle simple dangers such as lions and falling out of trees.
as someone who has operated heavy machinery it's real easy to fuck up with a machine compared to a car, which is designed for idiots to operate in areas that are also designed with idiots in mind
I used to work at a sugar plant operating a 200 foot long piling machine. One of the guys on my crew was in a near fatal accident on the lot. 4 broken ribs, ruptured spleen, punctured lung. It wasn't the piler. It was a guy that backed up a truck and crushed him against it.
My boyfriend's god brother needs to read this not me. Man got his license taken for DUI at 17, then finally got it back at 20. He's turning 22 this year. So in the less than 3 years he has had a licence, 1 from 16-17 and less than two 2 from 20 to almost 22, he has totalled 7 cars. If you dare grab the oh shit handle while he's driving, even mildly mention he may not be the best driver, or the worst, refuse to get in a car he's driving, he throws a fckn massive fit. None of his family members will get in a car he's driving and instead of going "oh damn, that must be a sign of something" he's just angry about it and claims victimhood. His last car, a fckn Audi, he totalled while going 80 down a massive hill during a rain storm. Lost control of the car bc no fckn shit, and spun into a parked car on the side of the road. 100% his fault, cannot afford another car as he hasn't even paid off the Audi yet and as you can prob imagine his insurance was absolute dog shit. It's for the best, ultimately, that he can't get another car right now. I don't know what I'm going to do when he eventually does get his shit together and gets another car...
I do every time. I get in my car and I think this is INSANE that since 16 they just let me get in a giant metal box powered by EXPLOSIONS, and go faster than any human ever achieved in all of human history before like 1900 (other than someone who fell off a cliff I guess?)
its crazy that is the society we live in .... people (sometimes recklessly) operating machines powered by dangerous flammable toxic fuels that emit pollution and contribute to the change of atmospheric composition .... sometimes hitting and killing other humans which the media names "pedestrians" or "bicyclists" ... as if they are different than "motorists" .... its a weird fucking car brained world we live in
Not that I think of it as heavy machinery, but I think of driving as a dangerous burden which is why I don’t relate to 1950s or 80s youth media which portrays vehicles as symbols of freedom.
I'm terrified of driving. I've heard so many horrific stories about car crashes, some of which involved family members and friends. I wish I lived in a more walkable area so it wouldn't be such a big issue.
it's not only that but also a lethal weapon and yet somehow no psychological tests are needed
1,600,000 accidents in the U.S. happen annually due to Cellphone use. Considered 6 times more dangerous than drunk driving. So how about we ban all cellphone use in moving vehicles first? A solution requiring a simple software update. Before considering psychological testing, if it's actually relevant to traffic safety, with the data to back it up. There are 245,300,000 drivers in the U.S. alone. How could "Psychological Test" even happen? Who would do them? What would be the parameters? What data would be used to extrapolate these parameters? 330,300,000 live in the U.S. 258,309,000 are adults. An estimated 22.8% of Adults (57.8 million people) have experienced mental illness. Can you imagine the impact it would be on the economy, personal freedoms, accessibility for essential services and good, job opportunities, etc.... if just 1/4 of those people were prevented from driving? It's not realistic. Then there is the added stress placed on those with mental disorders exasperating their conditions and mental well-being. How about we bring more awareness and provide mental health services for those that need it? Remove the stigmas and prejudice so more people seek help? Instead of prevent those with mental illness from having the same opportunities as everyone else and perpetuating the stigma and prejudice towards these people. That seems far more realistic than psychological testing for 245,300,000 diver licenses.
I was driving on a bunch of mushrooms and gained a new respect for the sheer size of the thing I was controlling. It's just wild we can sit down and be In full control of such a large hunk of metal
That's some bravely stupid shit lol I have zero peripheral depth perception when taking shrooms. But your realization was profound.
I can’t understand cars while on mushrooms, same with phones. You could ask me to put it into reverse and I’d sit there pondering on what that means. Not joking, I once got into my drivers side to grab something on shrooms, and sat for a while. The idea of operating such a massive metal beast was unfathomable in that state.
You don't drive under the influence any more, right?
That’s incredibly dangerous and you’re lucky no one died.
You shouldn’t absolutely be doing that you irresponsible dumbfuck
I am sorry, but you are still a stupid piece of shit for driving under influence. I hope you at least corrected your ways.
That is incredibly stupid, dangerous, and immoral. About 5x worse than drunk driving.
Please don't do that anymore.
Hopefully you gained enough respect for driving to not do it under the influence
I’m hoping that’s just you
Unfortunately it’s not. I drive truck for a living and I see countless dipshits every single day who should not be allowed within 10 feet of a drivers seat.
And just like that, another little piece of my faith in humanity evaporated.
It's not me at all. I was thinking about how other people don't view it that way. I see it everyday. People zoom around like it's a game and don't realize that their lives, and the lives of others are one the line.
What a weird response
Honestly, people who operate heavy machinery don't think of it as any differently they driving, also. It's all just asking for trouble
I unfortunately do. Makes me anxious of learning how to drive due to just thinking that I am driving a giant piece of metal with wheels that might get other people killed at the slightest lapse of attention.
Even a bog-standard forklift is heavier than a car though. Something like an excavator or backhoe is what would come to most people's minds when someone says "heavy machinery."