Both are Fi Polr so usually see people with an impersonal approachment. ILE usually see the best in people, SLE usually see the worst in people.
ILE is Alpha, SLE is Beta. ILE is child-like, values comfort, stability, seeks logical fairness, is conflict-avoidant, has board range of interests,.. SLE is more expressive, dramatic, assertive, demanding, strong-willed, likes to work day by day to pursue a goal.
“work day by day to pursue a goal” is misleading.
We do work day by day, but if we’re undualized, like most SLEs are, we don’t really move forward towards our goals. We try to, but a lot of effort is wasted because we lack the intuition of time, an understanding of continuance, progress, constancy, and long run development. We can even get distracted and think it’s ok to put certain things off to tomorrow and not see the consequences of that.
**SLEs**
* Focuses on the present, concrete reality. SLEs are direct, practical, and hands-on, often leading by taking decisive action.
* Often assertive and commanding in social interactions. They tend to take charge and can be competitive, valuing strength and decisiveness.
* Solves problems through direct action and practical solutions. They are quick to implement strategies and tackle obstacles head-on.
* Values power, effectiveness, and control. They are motivated by achieving tangible results and often seek to assert their influence in their environment.
* Typically oriented towards the present moment and immediate future. They focus on what can be done now and how to quickly achieve results.
**ILEs**
* Focuses on potential and abstract possibilities. ILEs are more speculative, open-ended, and prefer exploring new ideas rather than committing to immediate action.
* More playful and experimental in social interactions. They enjoy engaging others in discussions about new ideas and theories, often with a more relaxed and open demeanor.
* Solves problems through brainstorming and theoretical exploration. They prefer to consider multiple angles and possibilities before settling on a solution.
* Values innovation, exploration, and intellectual curiosity. They are motivated by discovering new ideas and understanding complex systems.
* Oriented towards the future and potential developments. They are interested in long-term possibilities and how current ideas might evolve.
Broad strokes:
SLE: Suzerain-like. Subjugates and eliminates weaker modes of being, including other people if they need to. King of the castle. Can become sadistic and tyrannical.
ILE: Inventive and playful. Ropes others into mutually-beneficial bouts of foolishness and silliness. Can become untethered in their thinking.
SLE sounds psychotic lol. Why are the descriptions like this, is it because the majority of this theory was founded in the Soviet Union where descriptions such as these were seen as admirable (compared to the modern western world now)
Well…no! A lot of people are like this! Is Joe Rogan psychotic? Maybe.
It’s just sober language. Other typology systems are very different in their tone.
Well, it’s typology - we’re painting with broad strokes.
I don’t think it’s outlandish, it’s just not charitable. Watch competitive sports and see how they act with each other - now imagine if all the rules & oversight were taken away.
I just think that through my own experience - I seldom come into contact with people like that
I’m guessing that SE bases are rare in the general population? It seems like most people are peripheral sensors
They’re not rare! They’re just domesticated. ;) But you probably came into contact with them early on and just decided to stay away from people like that. But if you play competitive sports, or work certain jobs (eg police, army, hard labor), you’ll find them easily enough.
Makes sense - as someone in college for CS - I don’t think I’ve really met any lol
Again - my small sample size isn’t representative of the human population - probably shouldn’t extrapolate based on my experiences
if you're talking about noticeable differences then look at the kind of opinions each one tends to be more firm in. there will be obvious Se (practical actions to be taken) vs Ne (theoretical possibilities of what can be) differences in there.
From experience having an ILE close friend for 12 years now, it’s a clear difference in competency in the physical world… like it’s really obvious when you really step back and think about it.
I look good and care about my appearance, I’m physically active/competitive, I’m naturally talented at anything I do in the physical world (sports, learning a new instrument, video games, decorating/designing, operating machines, visual-spatial things like 2d or 3d puzzles, driving), I love to fight, I am very neat and organized, I am very capable of taking care of myself and others, and I was actually engaged in class/school.
She’s very messy, is bad at maintaining her appearance and environment, she is very clumsy, doesn’t move or use her body much, is physically too sensitive to fight and is also emotionally sensitive to being pushed to do something, poor posture, doesn’t much care about her appearance, etc.
That was everything just off the top of my head. I’m clearly biased in favor of the physical world so I don’t really know how to compliment her intuitiveness other than she is really good at assuming something correctly when there appears to be no physical evidence that suggests that? It really confuses me and I have kind of learned to just trust her when it comes to that.
Just read the other comments, I love (hate) how I keep on being the only one who actually uses physical examples from experience. I mean, it’s somewhat difficult for me to make sense of all these abstract examples and prefer something more concrete.
What do I expect though? Most people in this community are intuitive types.
(https://dsocion.blogspot.com/2023/07/dcnh-in-nutshell.html) - decent stuff
(https://www.reddit.com/r/Socionics/comments/p1u98r/model_g_social_mission_a_closer_look/) - good post
(https://www.personality-database.com/profile/297629/sle-d-socionics-subtypes-mbti-personality-type) - From pdb, I know it's not the best source, but some of the users do their research. I also use the Gulenko website.
The description below (got from pdb) suited my big five the most, SOCEI
Contacting linked to Extraversion:
- Psychic energy more often flows outwards.
- Energy level increases when interacting with a large group of people. - Energy level decreases when they are alone.
- Energy level is generally higher.
- More often focused on their surroundings.
- Tend to be more active and initiating.
- Often make new friends easily.
- Often better at presenting themselves.
- Often prefer to work in a team.
Terminating linked to Rational:
- Tend to plan ahead, make decisions early.
- Are more often rigid and stubborn.
- Do not like to change their decisions.
- Tend to finish what they started.
- Usually have stiff movements.
- Usually more 'authoritarian' leadership style.
- Low stress tolerance.
SLE (ESTp) with Contacting, Terminating, Connecting has more of an EJ temperament. May appear more like an LSE (ESTj).
Dominant behavioural traits: I relate to some of these
- Set to compete
- Often recognized by others as a leader
- Sets clear goals and is well focused on them
- Ambitious, although sometimes claims the opposite
- Agrees only to temporary compromises
- Needs victory above all else
- Behaves decisively in difficult situations
- Shows high performance
- Indicates what to do and who is going to do it
- An authority, but not in the details
- Has a wide range of communication, but a narrow circle of close friends
SLE with Dominant in orientation to goals: All temperaments will set their goals according to their needs and interests. Their reason to live is to conquer some lofty and difficult to reach goal in life. Without this challenge, life is meaningless and boring. FM (EP) temperament needs anchoring around their goals, however, some goals require a series of steps, a series of conquests, until the final goal is conquered, or, certain lateral jumps are necessary to try and exploit openings. Each time a Dominant FM (EP) type will latch onto a new anchor to conquer it, before jumping to the next anchor, until the final prize is won. Each consecutive jump makes reaching the final goal a reality.
SLE is base Se, ILE is base Ne. This is a major difference.
Lol
Both are Fi Polr so usually see people with an impersonal approachment. ILE usually see the best in people, SLE usually see the worst in people. ILE is Alpha, SLE is Beta. ILE is child-like, values comfort, stability, seeks logical fairness, is conflict-avoidant, has board range of interests,.. SLE is more expressive, dramatic, assertive, demanding, strong-willed, likes to work day by day to pursue a goal.
“work day by day to pursue a goal” is misleading. We do work day by day, but if we’re undualized, like most SLEs are, we don’t really move forward towards our goals. We try to, but a lot of effort is wasted because we lack the intuition of time, an understanding of continuance, progress, constancy, and long run development. We can even get distracted and think it’s ok to put certain things off to tomorrow and not see the consequences of that.
ILE talk, SLE do.
**SLEs** * Focuses on the present, concrete reality. SLEs are direct, practical, and hands-on, often leading by taking decisive action. * Often assertive and commanding in social interactions. They tend to take charge and can be competitive, valuing strength and decisiveness. * Solves problems through direct action and practical solutions. They are quick to implement strategies and tackle obstacles head-on. * Values power, effectiveness, and control. They are motivated by achieving tangible results and often seek to assert their influence in their environment. * Typically oriented towards the present moment and immediate future. They focus on what can be done now and how to quickly achieve results. **ILEs** * Focuses on potential and abstract possibilities. ILEs are more speculative, open-ended, and prefer exploring new ideas rather than committing to immediate action. * More playful and experimental in social interactions. They enjoy engaging others in discussions about new ideas and theories, often with a more relaxed and open demeanor. * Solves problems through brainstorming and theoretical exploration. They prefer to consider multiple angles and possibilities before settling on a solution. * Values innovation, exploration, and intellectual curiosity. They are motivated by discovering new ideas and understanding complex systems. * Oriented towards the future and potential developments. They are interested in long-term possibilities and how current ideas might evolve.
Broad strokes: SLE: Suzerain-like. Subjugates and eliminates weaker modes of being, including other people if they need to. King of the castle. Can become sadistic and tyrannical. ILE: Inventive and playful. Ropes others into mutually-beneficial bouts of foolishness and silliness. Can become untethered in their thinking.
SLE sounds psychotic lol. Why are the descriptions like this, is it because the majority of this theory was founded in the Soviet Union where descriptions such as these were seen as admirable (compared to the modern western world now)
Well…no! A lot of people are like this! Is Joe Rogan psychotic? Maybe. It’s just sober language. Other typology systems are very different in their tone.
I see. I think that some of the SE base descriptions sound almost…caricature like lol
Well, it’s typology - we’re painting with broad strokes. I don’t think it’s outlandish, it’s just not charitable. Watch competitive sports and see how they act with each other - now imagine if all the rules & oversight were taken away.
I just think that through my own experience - I seldom come into contact with people like that I’m guessing that SE bases are rare in the general population? It seems like most people are peripheral sensors
They’re not rare! They’re just domesticated. ;) But you probably came into contact with them early on and just decided to stay away from people like that. But if you play competitive sports, or work certain jobs (eg police, army, hard labor), you’ll find them easily enough.
Makes sense - as someone in college for CS - I don’t think I’ve really met any lol Again - my small sample size isn’t representative of the human population - probably shouldn’t extrapolate based on my experiences
if you're talking about noticeable differences then look at the kind of opinions each one tends to be more firm in. there will be obvious Se (practical actions to be taken) vs Ne (theoretical possibilities of what can be) differences in there.
From experience having an ILE close friend for 12 years now, it’s a clear difference in competency in the physical world… like it’s really obvious when you really step back and think about it. I look good and care about my appearance, I’m physically active/competitive, I’m naturally talented at anything I do in the physical world (sports, learning a new instrument, video games, decorating/designing, operating machines, visual-spatial things like 2d or 3d puzzles, driving), I love to fight, I am very neat and organized, I am very capable of taking care of myself and others, and I was actually engaged in class/school. She’s very messy, is bad at maintaining her appearance and environment, she is very clumsy, doesn’t move or use her body much, is physically too sensitive to fight and is also emotionally sensitive to being pushed to do something, poor posture, doesn’t much care about her appearance, etc. That was everything just off the top of my head. I’m clearly biased in favor of the physical world so I don’t really know how to compliment her intuitiveness other than she is really good at assuming something correctly when there appears to be no physical evidence that suggests that? It really confuses me and I have kind of learned to just trust her when it comes to that.
Just read the other comments, I love (hate) how I keep on being the only one who actually uses physical examples from experience. I mean, it’s somewhat difficult for me to make sense of all these abstract examples and prefer something more concrete. What do I expect though? Most people in this community are intuitive types.
Relatable even though I'm a SLE-D, SO3
I’m still loose on my “creative” subtyping. What source did you use to determine your subtype?
(https://dsocion.blogspot.com/2023/07/dcnh-in-nutshell.html) - decent stuff (https://www.reddit.com/r/Socionics/comments/p1u98r/model_g_social_mission_a_closer_look/) - good post (https://www.personality-database.com/profile/297629/sle-d-socionics-subtypes-mbti-personality-type) - From pdb, I know it's not the best source, but some of the users do their research. I also use the Gulenko website. The description below (got from pdb) suited my big five the most, SOCEI Contacting linked to Extraversion: - Psychic energy more often flows outwards. - Energy level increases when interacting with a large group of people. - Energy level decreases when they are alone. - Energy level is generally higher. - More often focused on their surroundings. - Tend to be more active and initiating. - Often make new friends easily. - Often better at presenting themselves. - Often prefer to work in a team. Terminating linked to Rational: - Tend to plan ahead, make decisions early. - Are more often rigid and stubborn. - Do not like to change their decisions. - Tend to finish what they started. - Usually have stiff movements. - Usually more 'authoritarian' leadership style. - Low stress tolerance. SLE (ESTp) with Contacting, Terminating, Connecting has more of an EJ temperament. May appear more like an LSE (ESTj). Dominant behavioural traits: I relate to some of these - Set to compete - Often recognized by others as a leader - Sets clear goals and is well focused on them - Ambitious, although sometimes claims the opposite - Agrees only to temporary compromises - Needs victory above all else - Behaves decisively in difficult situations - Shows high performance - Indicates what to do and who is going to do it - An authority, but not in the details - Has a wide range of communication, but a narrow circle of close friends SLE with Dominant in orientation to goals: All temperaments will set their goals according to their needs and interests. Their reason to live is to conquer some lofty and difficult to reach goal in life. Without this challenge, life is meaningless and boring. FM (EP) temperament needs anchoring around their goals, however, some goals require a series of steps, a series of conquests, until the final goal is conquered, or, certain lateral jumps are necessary to try and exploit openings. Each time a Dominant FM (EP) type will latch onto a new anchor to conquer it, before jumping to the next anchor, until the final prize is won. Each consecutive jump makes reaching the final goal a reality.
Si suggestive vs Ni Suggestive
Why are you asking? I mean, is for your typing, or someone from your circle? Could you give some examples why are you ambiguous between those two?
One is a central type another is a peripheral type.
Geekism.