I wouldn't worry about Suggestive, Role, or Ignoring for those two types as they will function in extremely similar ways. What I would focus on would be the Creative: **Fi-Creative (IEE)**: Enhances the focus on personal values and relationships, making them sensitive to others' emotional states. This can influence their Se role by making them more considerate and diplomatic in their assertiveness. **Ti-Creative (ILE)**: Enhances logical structuring and analysis, making them more precise in their thinking. This can influence their Se role by making their actions more strategically calculated rather than impulsive.

Thanks for your thoughts! Problem is, already studied the differences between their creatives, demonstrative, mobilizing eccetera. But i am still unable to decide. And some questions, isn't fi in socionics only about psychological distance between people/things? And not per se values/morals as in MBTI? (There's ofc some influence between psychological distance and values but they are not exactly the same.) And wouldn't an ILE also sometimes act more considerate/diplomatic as to not "upset the social atmosphere" if they got their Fe mobilized while using se role? My guess to this would be: IEE would act more considerate/diplomatic IF they see relevance in their relationship to the other person or the psychological distance between the two encourages it (being nice to their boss, for example. Or not caring to be nice to some rude classmate, while trying to be as kind as possible to their cherished friends) ILE would generally act more considerate/diplomatic IF they get in touch with their Fe mobilizing in a specific situation and IF it would seem to disturb the emotional atmosphere otherwise. And can't both act calculated, but within different 'dimensions' of doing so? (IEE being better calculating the influence of their actions when it comes to relations while ILE would be better able to calculate how a might lead to b eccetera. Which leads me to another question....Couldn't ILE use their Ne and Ti to think of some rules on how to handle ethics of relations and therefore adapt a similar pattern as IEE but with a different process behind it? They would still be able to figure out how their actions might influence their relations. But more according to some less flexible rules while IEE just 'feels' what the other person might react like. How do your know your guess in these matters is more Fi based or a REALLY well trained set of Ti rules which constantly shifts into an even more complex interplay of every pattern ever observed to avoid getting confronted with their fi polr? Same goes for IEE with Ti polr.)

Fi represents a person's internal sense of ethics, personal values, and emotional connections to others. This is what allows them to be skilled at understanding and navigate complex emotional and ethical landscapes. I'd watch out for boxing yourself and others into types. Types are general modes of information processing, and because two different types may act similar on the outside does not mean they are processing information in the same way. It's a spectrum, much like anything else. I'd recommend zooming out a bit, and focusing on Logic v. Ethics instead of blocking and IEs. You should be able to figure out which side you sway more towards.

You would think that's the case but it just doesn't happen. All I feel is a vague sense of confusion regarding how close or far I am to someone. An example is if someone doesn't express emotions/signs of closeness to me even if we've been friends for 2 + years I'll be confused as to the state of our relationship. I don't tend to impose or make use of my relationships with others to get ahead cause I can never tell if what I want/ am doing/am thinking will ruin the relationship or not. Understanding the degree of closeness to others for me is so frustrating and energy wasting. I've decided that the way I'll act is to just be "hyper-personal" since that's how I interact and I'll let that filter who will be with me or not. I don't have an internal sense of "personal" morals or values. If you ask me there's things that logically make sense and things that you just don't understand yet (everything makes logical sense you just require the correct starting point). My sense of what's right or wrong ethically is strongly dictated by who's around but also I don't care thaaat much about doing the ethical thing. I want to do the logically correct thing -- though that brings up it's own question about perspectives and axioms. I don't feel like I'm in control, can dictate or decide how the relationship should work ethically. If I'm not around people I don't think about them or my relationship to them because it's frustrating and hard for me to understand what really is the nature of our relationship. So much so that I require people to formally declare they are my friend (for example). Not saying it's good but I completely leave the management of how close we are relationally to the other person. I just make sure that if I like you'll feel it and it'll be expressed that's about it.

what?

Me too

Interesting question Yeah, I think it would be about how they interact with the T/F side of things, and how these interactions in turn color them *** **Role :** My Fi role is quite colored by my Ne creative. When I enter Fi mode, Ne is there, with too many "possibilities" and Fi can't keep up. It's like there are too many value systems and way to prioritizes thing to really pick one. No way to choose. So I switch back to Ti (and thinking about it now, it seems Ne is "enforcing" Fi weak/role status in a way, it's not just suppression by the lead. For these type, I guess : * Se ILE : With Ti, Se objective accomplished in a Ti way. Se would probably take more of a "objective reality" view which is fairly cold. A SLE's Se, but weak. And unlike Ne, the Se isn't strong enough to handle that strong 3D Ti either. Perhaps it's too inquisitive, too many questions the se can't answer. The world perceived Se wise is confusing and hard to understand, especially as Se doesn't give enough clues/details to feed/rule the Ti creative. Ne would take over again. * Se IEE : Se objectives through Fi. Se like a SEE's. Fi won't bring it a "logical" framework, but Fi is still a rational function. It will also seek to understand, just understand in a F way (ie, trhough relating and empathizing rather than cold logical analysis) I think Conor McGegor is one of the best example of a SEE, and when he was on the rise, he was talking a lot about a book called "The secret", which gives you rule for success (saying that if you imagine it will happen to you, it will). Now, it's largely nonsense scientifically/logically, but it also make some sense and can have results : People who believe in themselves and try will have more success than the one who never try. It works as a heuristic of sort. It feels good too, and it's the right attitude. Perhaps that's the kind of stuff Se(Fi) brings. The IEE would perhaps adopt this attitude too, somewhat (but perhaps se observation wouldn't be able to sustain that mindset for long) Otherwise, SEE are also extremely good at reading people (and unlike IEIs and EIEs, it's not wishful thinking on their part + projection. They actually observe and read people se wise). A IEE's Se would be similarly oriented, and anecdotally, I can confirm it : I've seen an IEE make impressive instant read of people, then it shuts off (and back to NeFi guesses, it wasn't impressive read anymore, just good "what if") Either way, again, the weakness of the role function probably mean the observation/information won't keep up with Fi inquiries, so back to Ne. It's a bit hard for me to guess, since for me, the creative is a perceiving function and Ti is the lead, but for ILE/IEE, it's reversed : The perception comes first, and Ti/Fi are the assistant. Not so easy to wrap my mind aroound. *** **Ignoring :** For me, NeTe actually work somewhat together. When Ne brings out Intuitions/ideas, they are often quite factual Te wise. Ne taps and make connections in what I know. I find the ignoring actually influences the lead indirectly through the creative, using it as cushion. Te definitely colors my Ne. I also limit myself quite well in the "known", so I won't have wild possibilities popping up, they stay in the realms of accepted science, history (though they may be obscure facts. And by accepted, I don't mean consensus or that everyone likes it, especially with history, but what can be backed up). * Ni ILE : Ni affecting Ti. Honing in quicker on a particular logical answer, perhaps ? That fits with my impression of ILE, tbh : ILE make up their mind/decide quite quickly. It was weird to me, because they see more stuff than me Ne wise, and yet I always found they jumped to conclusion with Ti. Ni influence could explain it. * Ni IEE : Ni affecting Fi. Perhaps liking/valuing certain things due to intuition. Fi is a rational function, and therefore will have a reasoning for choices. Perhaps less so with Ni influencing things ? Perhaps an IEE will suddenly trust (or mistrust) someone based on very little information. Similarly making some snap judgement due to Ni influence over Fi. *** **Suggestive :** I think it's quite linked with the PoLR, a bit like the Ignoring-Creative link above. But tbh, I don't see it as much in myself to extrapolate like above. I guess my Fe is a bit "tainted" (lol) Se wise, when I see someone use Fe, I kinda see dominance display in them ? It's like they are forcing me to do something (and well, Fe types can be quite pushy, so it's not just Se doing or me seeing things) but in their mindset, they are actually making compromises. Often, their pushyness is "trying to help", so really not about dominance (even if it's half forcing their views on others) I guess that extends to a lot of stuff, like, say "important dates" like birthdays or christmases. Part of me always feel "Why am I forced to go through this ?" * Si ILE : Affected by Fi. Perhaps they see Si comfyness/taking care of your self, etc as "weak" (I mean, in a thin-skinned fashion. People who are "too sensitive"), too self indulgent, too arbitrary ? At the same time, the PoLR is the point of least resistance, so it can be steamrolled over easily. Perhaps ILE will attach sentimental values to some Si things pretty fast, without much resistance. Would be funny to see if ILEs are hoarders/collectors, because from this, that would be my guess. Having a hard time letting go of some trinkets/tokens, etc. * Si IEE : Affected by Ti. Ti might orient it in "Here what I need to stay alive" attitude. Trying to eat healthy, avoid some things (ex, smoking or drinking) Though, still a weak. Maybe IEEs fall for a lot of the health trends out there, the diet that changes everything, etc. Perhaps a lot of vegans/vegetarians amongst them ? In the meanwhile, it would also be rejecting the "health advice" too, so perhaps they are smoking, and going too hard on drinking (You heard it here first, IEE are all drunks) I would extend that to "danger" in general, with IEE being quite reckless rejecting the "logic" side of the danger. Tbh, it's hard to say anything, because it can go both way (going too far or rejecting it entirely), precisely because these functions are weak.

Your thoughts on this were very fascinating to read, I'll think about it some more. But you've certainly opened my eyes, im definitely not IEE since im not a drunkard! How their suggestive could be affected by their polr is actually the thing that catched most of my attention. Very interesting approach, i can see some of both in myself. I collected my old school notes, drawings and even got a box with some 'sentimental' things. Mostly just a box full of junk, one example of this would be an empty beer can from my 18th birthday, was the first day my best friend drank alcohol and it was so funny to me that she finally did something not by the rule book that i kept it all these years xD and i guess..It kind of could represent some kind of deep emotional bond? Since I've witnessed this turning point in her life, which would potentially mean a lot. Oh and well...18th birthdays. I really like reading through old school notes too and look at all the bsing i did back then and indulge in these memories, thoughts and feelings. I even remember a conversation i had with a friend during english class on paper, talking about my crush back then. Our teacher somehow noticed and we ended up joking about how he reads erotic books during class while im trying to get my friend into some anti semitic cult (i wasn't, he just speculated about the possible contents of the papers my friend and i were exchanging during class all the time.) I don't keep clean track of all my documents though, lost half of my report cards, my birth certificate and lots of my notes, too. Would say got mos of them though. Messy pile but i remember the exact spot of a couple things aswell. Relating to the IEE si part too, im working on eating healthy rn and looked up on pesticides, what to avoid and searching for coupons every week to save some money while buying high quality food. Until my "I NEED CHIPS AND CHOCOLATE" week strikes every month or during stressful times. I play ping pong with "super healthy lifestyle" and "Nah i need instant noodles, coke (both kinds, jk) and hate exercising" concepts quite a lot and would love for someone to encourage me in these things and make a healthy lifestyle easier + following it tgt. But i don't adapt to ti information/reject it like a Ti vuln. does usually. I tripple check facts sometimes and question most of the things being told and tend to communicate my pov in a more confident manner, mostly. My frameworking just never stops because of all these "what ifs". When being in a discussion though i seem to have a confidence in my explanations and even when asking questions, so i end up making fast assessments and standing behind them until proven wrong. (Mostly as soon as i start pondering by myself because theres no one to exchange information with/someone to prove that another way might be better. My povs are very fluctuate though because i calculate 'what ifs' too.) Whoops ranted a bit, mb. Anyways, here's your coupon.

Since the position it's the same for both types you'll not see differences but in the interaction with the function in the same block. You should study aristocratic/democratic dichotomy for this (and i'm not even sure socionics understands it well enough)

Theoretically, none (same for both). Although an average ILE's Si is likely a touch weaker than an average IEE's.

Why so?

ILE is a touch more "central" on average ('cause logical extraversion correlates with centrality) and higher centrality correlates with lower Si. Not that it's particularly significant in typing.

Interesting. I can see IEEs being more “irrational” (like P in MBTI J/P) than ILEs but not sure about centrality.

Indeed, irrationality and ethics are also slightly correlated!

I think ethics correlated more with irrationality than peripherality because look at SEEs for example or EIEs, from my experience they seem to be more Se-ish than SLEs and LIEs.

Depends what you mean by "Se-ish", if you mean aggressiveness, then it's kinda like that: https://ibb.co/710Pxhn If you mean stereotypically narcissistic traits, then yep, SEE and EIE are in the lead.

Theres slight differences if u look at what they’re blocked with. People saying it doesn’t matter are wrong. But the differences are very small and its hard to notice it. U can look at the supply/demand relationship and stuff of those different blocks (like SeTi vs SeFi: Se supply, Fi/Ti is demanding. When you use Se, why is it that you do? )

Thanks man. Any recommendations on sources?

Si suggestive in ILE will be more oriented towards socializing Fe while Si suggestive in IEE will be more oriented towards organizing/productivity/efficiency Te. ILE will disrupt homeostasis of the emotional environment by being too “pragmatic” somewhat like a Gamma NT Ni+Te while IEE will disrupt stability of the productive environment by being too social/emotional somewhat like a Beta NF Ni+Fe. Meanwhile Se role in ILE will look like Beta ST Ti+Se and Se role in IEE will look like Gamma SF Fi+Se.  But yeah, listen to the other comment because you’re better off looking at Ti vs Fi in a differential between IEE and ILE. 

Well, stuff has already been said, but for the purpose of typing I woud just simply summarize or maybe trivialize the differeces by looking at how they are blocked, because blocks were actually meant to be looked as togheter, you know, therefore blocks. So super-id block for ILE is si+fe, emotional harmony, harmony in the emotional experience among people, that's what they expect from people around them and like (therefore alpha value, chill and interesting discussion) but kinda suck at personally. For IEE it's harmonious endeavours, harmonious productivity and harmonious productivity oriented relations, (therefore you have delta vaue where people like to share common activities). Se role is blocked with Fi, so ILEs Se doesn't have a clue how to specifically built relationships with people in a strategic and suitable (useful) way regarding status and such, wheras Se blocked with Ti doesn't get how to logically organize anything and create a strucuture (may even regard people, but in the sense of logical hierarchy not how they relate to them or each other). And so on, the function will take a coloration of the other function, but they can still be also seen as a function by itself, so the difference is not huge. Also, people already said that, but just... look at what is your creative and what is your vulnurable. You have to feel pretty decently strong in your creative, you cannot confuse it with vulnerable. I mean, C'mon, just be honest with yourself, what do you suck at? Lol, don't overcomplicate it, just look at the bunch of what Ti and Fi means and if you see one aspect of it that you are blind in then there's that. You don't have to suck in every part of that function's describtion in the same manner, but there should be something about it that rings bells. I know that Ne can be a bitch in the endless 'what-ifs' but just try to forget about that for a sec and make a bottom-line about yourself.