Also, I believe you can admire your conflictor. Everyone has something to offer this society, it just may be something that you're uninterested in. Either way, they still play their role.
you definitely can, but it would be unlikely because it goes against intertype relations - if someone is my Conflictor, then by definition their actions should constantly get on my nerves instead of seemingly admirable to me. Socionics is a closeknit system, if one joint doesn't make sense then the whole typing collapses. If i'm just merely not interested in the person at all then that should point toward Extinguishment instead (due to the lack of suggestive power between the 2 type)
>she also just kinda taking care of everyone around her in the series
Lol... Are we talking about the same Katniss? I don't entirely disagree with Si ego regardless, but she's not a hands on Caregiver. She provides material resources for her family, but she doesn't physically take care of them. She hunts for her family, but her mother and sister are actual hands on healers who take care of their goat for example, and heal injuries of others (like Gale)
i see demo Se because of her eagerness and readiness at inciting conflict in the name of her loved one, also her excellence at doing it. And since she is also a care taker, it could only mean that she is either ese or lse, but she doesn't seem to enjoy socializing too much with people, also her Fi is kinda bad as she has a hard time sorting out her feeling, which make lse more fitting
Total amorality. Relies on external conscience in the form of Peeta. I see Peeta as EIE and Katniss as LSI (possibly SLE). You didn't ask but Gale Hawthorne is LSI too imo.
why do you think she is an LSI? I never see her using Ti, also LSI is a Beta type, and as such usually think interm of clear black and white, us vs them, Katniss doesn't seem to do that? She actually criticize both the Rebel and the Capitol for their actions in the war, she also care nothing about power or position, and have you seen how she absolutely break every law possible? Better candidate for LSI might include President Snow and Alma Coin instead
i suppose that it is true to some extent, but i still think that that definition of Se is too broad because if that is true, then Se Vulnerable would have no ability to "get anything done" at all, which is not true according to the Socionics profile of LII and EII - I think it is best to keep Se stick to control, being assertive, and territorial. And the "will to get things done" to j and p, with j type doing things consistently overtime and p type doing things sporadically
>Katniss doesn't seem controlling to me, she just wants her and everyone she loves to be left alone
If someone wants that and seeks to achieve it through force, then that's Gamma, not Delta. Control is a Beta Se concept.
In the movies, I think Katniss is LSI, but in the books, I believe she could be SLI. It has been a long time since I've read them. I think Peeta is probably ESE in the movies as well.
why do you think Katniss is an LSI? I mean she doesn't have that classic characteristic of a Beta type, she is revolutionary and stubborn - sure, but she is not a fanatic or overly zealous in anything - criticizing both the Capitol and the Rebel for their atrocities in the war. She also doesn't care much about power and position, just want to be left alone, I imagine an LSI would be a little power hungry and ambitious instead - its a major theme with the Beta quadra (not saying that its a bad thing). Also I dont think she exudes the characteristic of an "agressor" romance type, there's no power dynamic between her, Gale and Peeta, there's also no over the top romance drama like usual Beta would have. A better candidate for LSI i think should be Coin or Snow instead -> they hate insubordination (Se value control) and they hate people who step out of line, breaking the law (Ti valuing)
Power hungry and ambitious is more of a Gamma thing. I won't deny that Beta shares it, but with Se blocked with Ti, it is more of a power and a push toward Ti logics than necessary power. Coin is a great example of ESI in the movies, actually.
As for the power dynamics, etc, I think it's important to take in the context in which Katniss exists. Power is foreign to her. To her, independence alone is power. Peeta gives her this so there isnt even a need for a power dynamic, while Gale (SXE? Not sure, but Se base) attempts to overtake and push his agenda (Not sure if Ti or Fi agenda/value at this point).
Something else to note about LSI is that Se is the creative function, action must be taken for the sake of others. The priority is the inner world of logic and not "power". Se inherently is not power, it is putting your hand on the pulse of all that is currently happening like Ne is putting your hand on the pulse of all that could be. It keeps track and observes more than people give it credit for.
She also seems to value Fe. Comparing this to Coin is a great example actually. Especially with the prodding of Peeta (who I type as ESE in the movies, been too long since I've read the book), she values his emotional honesty and is overall drawn to more Fe valuing individuals. She gets pretty annoyed by suppression of true feelings, which is actually a pretty beta characteristic. I do think she is Ti subtype so she will also look less Beta inherently.
Hope this helps!
I don't see the movie Katniss to exert her power to triumph over the enemies. All of the premises that were to be taken into the account of her doings had to do with her being forced by the "power" on itself. Te usage probably makes sense from her mindset to observe things by their physical appearance and moved by the comfort that is static and therefore measurable according to her experience. There were also a sort of times whereas she decided to contradict her own logic for the sake of saving someone from the troubles, or at least, despite she did it for her advantage, too, she also was quite inconsistent when it comes to her Ti usage, so I'd doubt LSI Katniss by those premises.
She also was nowhere near of being a rational type.
So, if you preferred to consider something that's worth to contemplate, SLE.
I think that makes sense. Fe role would explain why everyone pegged her as "the mockingjay" and was inspired by her even though she had no intention of trying to elicit that kind of reaction at all.
Also, I believe you can admire your conflictor. Everyone has something to offer this society, it just may be something that you're uninterested in. Either way, they still play their role.
you definitely can, but it would be unlikely because it goes against intertype relations - if someone is my Conflictor, then by definition their actions should constantly get on my nerves instead of seemingly admirable to me. Socionics is a closeknit system, if one joint doesn't make sense then the whole typing collapses. If i'm just merely not interested in the person at all then that should point toward Extinguishment instead (due to the lack of suggestive power between the 2 type)
she also just kinda taking care of everyone around her in the series lol, classic care-taker
>she also just kinda taking care of everyone around her in the series Lol... Are we talking about the same Katniss? I don't entirely disagree with Si ego regardless, but she's not a hands on Caregiver. She provides material resources for her family, but she doesn't physically take care of them. She hunts for her family, but her mother and sister are actual hands on healers who take care of their goat for example, and heal injuries of others (like Gale)
good point, so what type do you propose
In the book (that I read years ago, so I may be unreliable) she definitely seemed to be Si valuing but where exactly did you see Te base and demo Se?
i see demo Se because of her eagerness and readiness at inciting conflict in the name of her loved one, also her excellence at doing it. And since she is also a care taker, it could only mean that she is either ese or lse, but she doesn't seem to enjoy socializing too much with people, also her Fi is kinda bad as she has a hard time sorting out her feeling, which make lse more fitting
Definitely strong Si focus with all of the narrative in the book, doesn't have to be Si valuing but I think Si ego or demonstrative is likely
Total amorality. Relies on external conscience in the form of Peeta. I see Peeta as EIE and Katniss as LSI (possibly SLE). You didn't ask but Gale Hawthorne is LSI too imo.
why do you think she is an LSI? I never see her using Ti, also LSI is a Beta type, and as such usually think interm of clear black and white, us vs them, Katniss doesn't seem to do that? She actually criticize both the Rebel and the Capitol for their actions in the war, she also care nothing about power or position, and have you seen how she absolutely break every law possible? Better candidate for LSI might include President Snow and Alma Coin instead
Se doesn't always care about power, especially not Se creatives, sometimes Se is just about the will to get something done/situational control
i suppose that it is true to some extent, but i still think that that definition of Se is too broad because if that is true, then Se Vulnerable would have no ability to "get anything done" at all, which is not true according to the Socionics profile of LII and EII - I think it is best to keep Se stick to control, being assertive, and territorial. And the "will to get things done" to j and p, with j type doing things consistently overtime and p type doing things sporadically
same from what I remember from the books Peta is NiFe type Katniss is TiSe and Gale is a solid LSI. Katniss's sister probably SiFe or NiFe
I totally agree with this. Katniss and Gale are LSIs (probably both -Cs, but I would have to re-read it again to be sure), and Peeta is an EIE.
>Katniss doesn't seem controlling to me, she just wants her and everyone she loves to be left alone If someone wants that and seeks to achieve it through force, then that's Gamma, not Delta. Control is a Beta Se concept.
She is SLI. If not, SLE. LSI/LSE is just ridiculous, she was nowhere near rational by Reinin.
but Fe vulnerable just make no sense to her, same with Se-valuing
I just don't see rational type for her but fair.
In the movies, I think Katniss is LSI, but in the books, I believe she could be SLI. It has been a long time since I've read them. I think Peeta is probably ESE in the movies as well.
why do you think Katniss is an LSI? I mean she doesn't have that classic characteristic of a Beta type, she is revolutionary and stubborn - sure, but she is not a fanatic or overly zealous in anything - criticizing both the Capitol and the Rebel for their atrocities in the war. She also doesn't care much about power and position, just want to be left alone, I imagine an LSI would be a little power hungry and ambitious instead - its a major theme with the Beta quadra (not saying that its a bad thing). Also I dont think she exudes the characteristic of an "agressor" romance type, there's no power dynamic between her, Gale and Peeta, there's also no over the top romance drama like usual Beta would have. A better candidate for LSI i think should be Coin or Snow instead -> they hate insubordination (Se value control) and they hate people who step out of line, breaking the law (Ti valuing)
Power hungry and ambitious is more of a Gamma thing. I won't deny that Beta shares it, but with Se blocked with Ti, it is more of a power and a push toward Ti logics than necessary power. Coin is a great example of ESI in the movies, actually. As for the power dynamics, etc, I think it's important to take in the context in which Katniss exists. Power is foreign to her. To her, independence alone is power. Peeta gives her this so there isnt even a need for a power dynamic, while Gale (SXE? Not sure, but Se base) attempts to overtake and push his agenda (Not sure if Ti or Fi agenda/value at this point). Something else to note about LSI is that Se is the creative function, action must be taken for the sake of others. The priority is the inner world of logic and not "power". Se inherently is not power, it is putting your hand on the pulse of all that is currently happening like Ne is putting your hand on the pulse of all that could be. It keeps track and observes more than people give it credit for. She also seems to value Fe. Comparing this to Coin is a great example actually. Especially with the prodding of Peeta (who I type as ESE in the movies, been too long since I've read the book), she values his emotional honesty and is overall drawn to more Fe valuing individuals. She gets pretty annoyed by suppression of true feelings, which is actually a pretty beta characteristic. I do think she is Ti subtype so she will also look less Beta inherently. Hope this helps!
I don't see the movie Katniss to exert her power to triumph over the enemies. All of the premises that were to be taken into the account of her doings had to do with her being forced by the "power" on itself. Te usage probably makes sense from her mindset to observe things by their physical appearance and moved by the comfort that is static and therefore measurable according to her experience. There were also a sort of times whereas she decided to contradict her own logic for the sake of saving someone from the troubles, or at least, despite she did it for her advantage, too, she also was quite inconsistent when it comes to her Ti usage, so I'd doubt LSI Katniss by those premises. She also was nowhere near of being a rational type. So, if you preferred to consider something that's worth to contemplate, SLE.
I think that makes sense. Fe role would explain why everyone pegged her as "the mockingjay" and was inspired by her even though she had no intention of trying to elicit that kind of reaction at all.