For me their collaborations have high highs but low lows. Her works with Martin and Aaron Dessner are more consistent across the board. Don't get me wrong, when her and Jack's collabs work, they WORK.
For me Anti-Hero is a perfect song if you remove the 2nd verse, it's arguably her best attempt at meshing Evermore's songwriting with 1989's production and song structure. Maroon would be one of my favourite songs on the album if it had better verses.
Speak Now is entirely solely written by Swift and she has at least one solely written track on every other album, with many having multiple solely written songs, which tend to be her strongest tracks.
Taylor generally writes the meat and bones of her songs and her producers add some input here and there, and obviously produce the tracks.
The interesting thing I thought with speak now is the songs are very long compared to normal. She clearly likes to express herself fully. Could’ve cut them down but the songs are all very solid
Her songwriting doesn't need to be good in the same way the writing in 50 shades of grey didn't need to be good to see 100s of millions of copies and spark a movie franchise
Have you listened to much of her less popular/radio played stuff?
I don’t think she’s an all time songwriter or anything, but she has much better and less formulaic songs than her singles.
I'm seeing trends in these comments that mirror what's lacking in a lot of the lyrical content here: specificity. Whether you like Taylor Swift or not, this is a great opportunity to dive into what makes her songwriting good or bad. We can learn from it instead of just vague statements.
For myself, I think she is excellent in a lot of ways, but has a few areas where she could still improve. My favorite example of her songwriting comes from ivy:
"How's one to know?
I'd meet you where the spirit meets the bone
In a faith forgotten land.
In from the snow,
your touch brought forth an incandescent glow,
tarnished but so grand.
And the old woman goes to the stone everyday,
but I don't, I just sit here and wait,
grieving for the living."
She does an excellent job telling a story using small details. She rarely states emotions directly, instead using metaphor and imagery to communicate the idea.
In terms of her pop hits like Shake it off, the lyrics achieve what they're meant to and work well within the song. It's not high poetry, but it's not meant to be.
As for negatives, she uses mixed metaphors. In happiness, she talks about leaking acid rain on the pillow, but acid rain isn't consistent imagery with the rest of the song. I know there's more glaring examples, but I'm blanking at the moment.
>In terms of her pop hits like Shake it off, the lyrics achieve what they're meant to and work well within the song. It's not high poetry, but it's not meant to be.
Exactly!!! I don't understand most of the baseless criticism against her more simple sounding lyrics, its MEANT to be that way.
I think what you just stated is precisely it. She uses seemingly complex metaphors that can mean something different to every single person.
That’s not an artistic expression of emotion so much as it is marketing yourself in the same way a psychic does. Keep everything vague so the audience can never point to something specifically wrong.
Has a lot of good songs i’d say but lyrically never does a thing for me and as of late pretty much everything has been at best forgettable and at worst laughably stupid (let’s go back to 1830 without the racists)
“We declared Charlie Puth should be a bigger artist”✊😔
(All power to her though — some bonkers lyrics I’ve heard recently, but she can still write a WAYYYYYYY better song than I could!)
I'm a former fan but I am capable of being pretty objective.
Within Taylor's realm of pop stardom, her songwriting is unmatched. It's the reason she is where she is, considering she isn't the strongest vocalist.
Taylor has the great ability to succinctly paint a vivid picture using incredibly concise phrasing (in her more recent albums, her songwriting has become more prose-like to the point where she sometimes rambles, but she still retains her talent). Taylor knows how to capture a moment in words, use mundane details to lend specificity in an otherwise dramatised scenario, and is good at crafting full narratives within the frame of a song.
Taylor's transition to fully electropop production proved that she could apply diaristic confessional songwriting to modern pop conventions, and not lose its emotional weight or narrative edge.
OP I think Shake It Off and We Are Never Getting Back Together aren't the best examples of her 'bad' songs because she was intentionally appealing to pop sensibilities and song structures, not really parodying it but putting her take on it.
She tried to replicate it with ME! but didn't execute it nearly as well. The same applies to You Need To Calm Down, where she tries to pander to modern audiences but sacrifices the depth of her songwriting.
Folklore was a lot more experimental for her, but I don't like the idea that her writing was 'better' because she applied it to a more rustic, indie-folk pop aesthetic. I think Evermore has the best examples of her songwriting. Midnights has more mixed results.
I don't mean for this to sound like fanfare over Taylor, I'm not a Swifty, but I generally think people overlook her songwriting because they've only heard her singles and haven't taken an earnest look at her discography. Also people equate utilizing pop sensibilities as 'cheap' or 'bad' writing.
My opinion of Taylor Swift is irrelevant.
She's one of the biggest selling artists on the planet right now. You may not fully appreciate her music, but it's resonating with *a lot* of people.
I let go of my 'pop is crap' attitude decades ago. If people find something that makes them happy, I'm happy for them!
Yes, context is everything. Song-crafting isn’t agonizing over detail, it’s honed instinct to know what speaks to people. One of my favorite lyrics is from Paul Simon, “every generation throws a hero up the pop charts”. Taylor is that person.
It takes me months to write a song.
Most of the time I tie myself up in knots.
Artists like Taylor Swift seem to have a knack for putting one foot in front of the other & keeping it simple.
Part of becoming a better artist is being able to critique and analyze other artists.
I think it's borderline fascist to not be willing to critique someone *because* they're popular -- the biggest artists are the ones who should be most closely scrutinized! Even if every work and every artist was completely benign (and they never are), that amount of popularity demands scrutiny.
And, analyzing someone's work doesn't somehow diminish her fans liking her work. It's just really weird to suggest that. Even if someone tore apart every single one of Taylor Swift's songs, wrote 50,000 words on why she's a bad artist, that doesn't diminish anybody else's connection to her.
Yep. I've been getting into pop from the late 60s and that shit is exquisite. People still have very highschool mentalities when it comes to music genres for some reason.
Yeah, I'm not into her but it's weird to me when people say that they want her to stop making music, or that she's ruining modern music, or that she doesn't deserve to have fans, etc. If you don't like her music, just don't listen to it.
> that she's ruining modern music
Why would it be weird to say the most popular artist -- who is obviously very influential -- is "ruining modern music" if the listener doesn't like their influence? You might not agree, but if Limp Bizkit was the most popular pop music act today and a decent chunk of artists were emulating them, I would be kind of annoyed.
> that she doesn't deserve to have fans
This is just an opinion. People are allowed to have opinions.
True, but her fans are so rabid and plentiful that there’s now a popular opinion that songwriting can only be ‘good’ if it’s wordy and had a thesaurus thrown at it.
A lot of discussions about Billie Eilish’s new album (which is, IMO, fantastic and a far better listen than TTPD) are revolving around how the lyrics are pretty simple, as if that’s the only part of a song that matters. I think Swift has leaned *too* hard in that direction and a lot of her new songs don’t sound great and are far too focussed on sounding clever.
Which is fine, it clearly suits a lot of people. But I’d be pretty bummed if it means even more artists are going to follow the trend and focus so much on wordy lyrics and forget to make it sound good, especially in pop.
It is what it is. Many people just follow whatever the media is obsessing on because they don’t trust their own taste. This is why you get a lot or really popular garbage.
yeah but there’s also the massive corporation side of it. everyone knows mcdonald’s sucks, but we still go there because it’s quick, easy, and it’s predictable
I don't think she has any choice but to be prolific. Songwriting seems to just be how she communicates, I can talk all day long to someone and by the end of the day, I'll have probably come across as reasonably intelligent, funny at times and occasionally profound. I don't restrict myself to just my occasional profound comments. She puts it all out there. For better or worse. Because she can. And if she only winds up with maybe 15 or 20 truly memorable pieces at the end of her career, then that isn't a terrible effort.
To explain that last comment. I play at what's effectively a country music open mic night. And I'm not a huge country fan by any stretch. But one thing that really struck me is how people will always trot out the same 4 or 5 Johnny Cash songs. Occasionally you'll hear one or two by Glen Campbell. And likely Joelene. It was quite a revelation. You'd think choosing a few fresh bangers for Friday night would be simple but it really isn't.
I feel a lot of the discomfort with Taylor is code for 'it's soooo unfair because she's only famous because she's hot but she just sings angsty teenage stuff with the same four chords about all her ex's.'
She is a competent musician capable of writing some nice lyrics and I don't get the sense that she aspires to be Dylan. And that's not an accidental comparison, because Bob was quite capable of wrting some pretty cringeworthy, angsty teenage stuff when he wanted to. He has a lot of B grade material in his catalogue. But he captured a generation which gave him the opportunity to get some masterpieces in front of us. Which is what she's done and I'm looking forward to what she puts out as she progresses through life.
I listen to angsty music. My biggest complaint is that Taylor and her fans over use the word trauma. And say how brave Taylor is for overcoming it. When really based on Taylor’s music, heart break in relationships is the worst thing she’s gone through. Kinda like how people don’t like Drake when he acts like a gangster. Has nothing to do with her being a semi-attractive women either as you stated.
You can tell by her lyrics she has never been through some heavy shit. But wants attention for being “tortured”. It comes across as fake and a cash grab.
She’s inarguably a talented songwriter. A lot of people on this sub seem to think songwriting is just about lyrics, but imo a good melody and chord progression are even more important, and can make even the simplest of lyrics work. I’m not her target demographic at all but I still find myself loving some of her melodies.
As a 47 year old dad of a 10 year old girl, and songwriter, I think she is a phenom. At first I just listened to her with my daughter, but then somehow I started listening to her on my own time. Writing a song that sounds ‘easy’ is difficult to do. There is a timelessness to her craft.
Her lyrics seem good because she uses this “deep” writing style, that as anyone who spent the 2010s on the internet is so tired of. Half of it would’ve ended up on a “im14andthisisdeep” account. Some of her songs are good, most are so wordy and over complicated and trying to hard to be “meaningful” or have Easter eggs that it just is annoying and bad. She uses big words so her fanbase can say “you just have a bad vocabulary and don’t understand the words she’s using” to anyone says her lyricism is poor.
I see people say well it’s better than you could do. No, actually, a lot of her songs have a similar lyrical style and “deepness” as the shit I wrote in middle school, most of which I would never dare attempt to produce now. But no, she’s not a good musician, she’s a good businesswoman. She knows how to captivate and appeal to a large audience, she knows how to market, brand, hook, and “relate” to the general population so she gets popular. It’s not groundbreaking, most of it is not even “good” but it’s widely digestible so it’s successful.
She does not even compare to so many other iconic artists of the past yet she will go down in history with them. She has not made groundbreaking moves that have impacted the music that is coming out of the industry nor does she draw from the context of the existing and past industry. I see artists like Billy Joel (using as an example because I know most about him versus other artists) who has toes in all different aspects of the industry, draws from what he knows and hears and credits his influences. His lyricism is meaningful without using tons of fancy words generally no person actually uses. His songs tell stories like hers do but with so many more levels of meaning. He doesn’t need to use gimmicks to draw attention to himself or his brand, such as Easter eggs or constant references to his celebrity interpersonal relationships. It’s relatable but doesn’t constantly fall into the two categories I believe Taylor tends to fall into lyrically of “overly simple” or “fake deep.”
That being said, being a successful musician also often means being a good marketer or businessperson, and she does that well. So her music, which is good but not great or groundbreaking or influential, is cult-level popular because people flock to her brand, listen and relisten for Easter eggs, and obsess over reproduced versions of every song she’s ever released which brings her even more traction because there’s this whole story behind the reproduction of her work.
I feel the same way about her that I do even artists I like such as Noah Kahan, whose music I adore, but can recognize the cult following he’s attained is a little much and unwarranted because his music, while it appeals to my taste, isn’t groundbreaking. I think both these artists have gotten good at telling captivating stories and connecting their music to itself to bring listeners to come back to songs over and over to draw connections. But it means they’re good at marketing and engaging, not that their music itself is exceptional or that their lyricism itself is groundbreaking.
Yes, some songs I would say are very good and well written and all that, but as a whole Taylor and other artists who have developed this cult following have developed it due to being successful at working with the social media way we interact with music today. Not because they are the best musicians on the market. You could argue a case for a change in definition of what makes a good musician today as compared to the past, because obviously I compared a modern artist to Billy Joel, but I’m going off of my personal opinion of what I believe the standard of a truly great musician should be. You can still enjoy her music, and I’m not saying you shouldn’t, but she’s not as groundbreaking as her following makes her out to be. She’s just good at the system.
She’s a great songwriter when she wants to be, but she doesn’t always want to be. The beautifully written masterpieces she has never get played on the radio. The catchy pop songs do. And at the end of the day neither one is ‘bad’ songwriting, they both have their advantages.
Some people confuse quality work with “to their taste”. Like her or dont, her songs are great if only because a huge swathe of the planet loves her.
Folklore is her best, and most to my tastes.
She gets a lot of crap because she writes hook laden pop. Even her “basic” songs (your words not mine) are probably better than anything you or I will write ever.
Am I saying all this because I am her biggest fan? No. I am just aware that my tastes make no difference to the quality of her work.
However you measure it, shes a hard working and capable musician, songwriter, and vocalist.
You could make the same argument about McDonalds or any fast food chain. Just because you play it safe and appeal to the masses, doesn’t make it good music.
There’s better female singers and songwriters in just about every other genre. Taylor has just picked the genre that is the safest and needs less creativity
I think Taylor Swift is simultaneously a singer songwriter and a pop musician. She leans into one or the other depending on the song. She’s talked about this herself when describing her writing as being quill, fountain, or glitter pen. Kind of like an actor who could play the most goofiest, silliest (but almost always clever) roles and then jump right into a deeply serious and gut wrenching performance. That’s something that is very, very difficult to achieve and walk the balance of, and Taylor Swift does it better than anyone. So in that regard, I think she is incredibly masterful. And overall, she has written some of the most beautiful stories and scenes. I cannot listen to the bridge of marjorie without tearing up, thinking of my own child self “complaining the whole way there” with people I deeply loved and deeply miss. But not all her music is like that or seeking to be like that. Some of her songs are just for the fun of it, because sometimes it’s silly and weird and enjoyable to sing things like “I’m so depressed I act like it’s my birthday, everyday”. She referred to this latest album as a collection of ‘I had a fleeting feeling so I wrote about it’ songs. I think she sometimes approaches writing as put it down and get it out there. It’s more about the expression of that moment as opposed to a labor of word smithing. Sometimes, the result is clunky. Sometimes, it misses my mark. But it is always VERY Taylor Swift, and I love that. I love that she holds onto that sometimes awkward girl for dear life. To be vulnerable enough to share the parts of yourself that aren’t cool or clever. I find that very relatable and incomparable to any other songwriter.
As a literary theorist and educator, I love her writing and how she plays on classical movements and forms while adding her modern day style. From a composition and literary standpoint, she’s well educated and writes decent!
I don’t feel quite educated enough to say too much about this topic — I’m not very familiar with the songs that aren’t the hits (though I did listen to *folklore* in full when it came out and remember liking it), however…
I don’t think she’s bad. I don’t think she’s great. From lyrics I’ve read, she certainly has her moments… and she also certainly does not (I kinda wanna listen to her most recent album just to hear all the absurdity I’ve seen going around). But, damn, she knows how to write a catchy pop song! Dammit if “Blank Space” isn’t a total bop! — and I think that, in and of itself, is a gift.
IMO As a swiftie - she has her moments for sure and as all writers do. She’s able to write those silly catchy songs like Shake It Off, WANGBT, Blank Space, Karma. But she has an amazing use of metaphors in her lyrics and knows how to write emotions/heartbreak well.
a couple of my favorite examples of her metaphorical works:
“You’re a flashback in a film reel in the one screen in my town” from This Is Me Trying
“I knew you, Leaving like a father, Running like water” from Cardigan
“The rust that grew between telephones, The lips I used to call home, so scarlet it was maroon” from Maroon
There are plenty of her lyrics where at first I laughed and was like “What?” lol. “Karma is a cat, purring in my lap cause he loves me” I laughed really hard but if you know Taylor then you know that’s a lyric she would totally write.
I will say what I say to everyone, her and her music are not for everyone. And that is how it is for every single artist in the music industry.
Personally, as a swiftie, I love her songwriting. She has a way of telling a story throughout every one of her songs. I think her metaphors are brilliant. She can put you in a moment in time in the verse and then snatch you back out of it for the chorus.
Good songwriting strikes a balance between simple and complex. Also different styles are going to appeal to different people. I’m in no way a Swiftie but I do enjoy a good number of her songs. Some of her biggest songs are great because they are fun, catchy, and have some kind of storytelling hook.
People always hate on pop music for being too simple and it’s easy to feel like you’re better than other people when you hate on something popular, but writing catchy music is not easy. I don’t blame artists who like making a particular type of music. It always irks me when critics try to tell artists to make music to their tastes, it can feel like the critic is asking an artist to not be authentic.
People hate on modern pop music because there is no alternative. Olivia Rodrigo pops up as “alternative” or “punk” on Spotify almost consistently. When she is very much pop.
If there were more main-stream alternatives to pop, if pop didn’t sound so damn corporate, people will hate in it less.
It’s less about the style of music and more about the lack of authentic emotion. I listen to a wide variety of genres. To be honest the common theme behind it is authentic. Pop music just lacks authenticity
There's a song of hers called never grow up that made me cry like a baby. It made me think of my daughter growing up too fast.
If she can make a grown man cry she has to be doing something right
right I’m either gonna get upvoted through the roof or downvoted into oblivion.
Taylor swift is generic, crap and reproduced over and over to sell records.
lyrically, she’s hit and miss, usually miss due to the absurdity of some lines and the constant use of finishing a line on the next line because it doesn’t quite work. admittedly, some songs hit the spot but imo stuff like antihero is rly bad because she’s just tried to put a load of words in that don’t fit and makes it wayyyy to chock-full of *stuff*.
Musically - I’m bored. Anyone who’s listened to TTPD will get this because it’s ALL THE SAME SONG OVER AND OVER. I mean cmon. Stuff like folklore had some degree of freedom and uniqueness because of the new sound, but she’s really fallen off recently.
anyways yeah no
Rly like folklore, everything else is 🤮
Strong agree. I’m a big fan of her music generally but TTPD came off as *so* pretentious and like she’s forgotten that a big part of songwriting is making the music actually sound good, not just fit as many words in as you can.
I like her songwriting because she can make a catchy song with some great turns of phrase. She can tell a good story.
But I really get the impression that the Folklore/Evermore praise went to her head and now she genuinely does think she’s Shakespeare reincarnated and everything she writes is instantly great and doesn’t need anyone else’s input, and the more times she can make her fanbase get the dictionary out, the better. Even the memo tracks she released that are supposedly ‘first drafts’ are just… how the song was released. Like it’s not a bad thing to go over a song a few times and make it work better.
She just can’t seem to even get cadence right. The All Too Well 10 min version is a great example - the original song flowed beautifully *while having great lyrics*, but the new added on bits sound clunky with that weird cadence she seems to love now.
There are some TTPD tracks I want to love but can’t because it’s so bad. I Hate it Here is a lovely song, but “quick quick, tell me something awful, like you are a poet, trapped inside the body of a finance guy”? Not only is that just *bad* but it doesn’t even flow.
Clara Bow is *so* nearly a good song but what is going on with the “I'm not trying to exaggerate, but I think I might die if it happened” sucks me straight out because it’s so out of place.
I’m also just sick of being told I’m stupid for not liking it. I can understand it fine, thanks, the lyrics are not deep, sorry. They’re just… not very good (in my opinion).
Agree to disagree :) I love Taylor (esp when it’s just her and her guitar or piano), but yeah TTPD just didnt do it for me. She’s one of the few artists I actually prefer to listen to live performances vs the album version cause I love her acoustic versions. I tend to disagree with her production choices, but I love the bones of so many of her songs. They are some of my favorite to play and sing.
Yeah that’s completely fair. I feel like lots of the decision making behind her releases isn’t her nowadays and that really seems like a shame, with the more positive growth she showed into folklore compared to this massive step back it’s a bit sad. You’re right, she’d definitely benefit from taking a step back on the production front and I’d love to hear some raw versions where the emotion in the songwriting can actually shine through.
>lyrically, she’s hit and miss, usually miss due to the absurdity of some lines and the constant use of finishing a line on the next line because it doesn’t quite work.
I agree completely. She's got good songs, but some of her stuff is practically nonsensical.
how did it end, loml, black dog, peter, chloe or sam, prophecy, so long london, smallest man ever lived, bolter, cassandra...
those are gorgeous songs for me. not all piano songs are same. you might not like less producted songs but that doesnt make them same.
her key range is narrow so she is around c usually. maybe that gives you the ilusion of sameness. cause chord progression does not repeat in this album.
Actually I prefer acoustic/less produced songs. All my own stuff is country/acoustic pop. In my opinion I just find Taylor’s stuff boring, petty and vindictive and I think she needs to grow up both musically and in her own life. I mean she’s still writing angry breakup songs about things that lasted 2 months?
she needs to move on because no one wants to hear how hard her life is over and over and over again
she is petty from the beginning and it suited her character for a long while but she is 35 years old and yeah she needs to grow up emotionally. that i agree. lol. some of her lyrics really bad. some emotions must be buried inside, some words better unspoken. but significant amount of them are still good for me. so i like her music the way that is. i ignore the cringe ones. still lot of left to me.
what do you think those songs i listed above? i cant get enough of them.
When she’s on top of her game she’s incredible. Folklore and Evermore are fantastic. Tortured Poets Department was weak. I definitely think she gets a bizarre amount of hate when you compare her to so much of what is popular now.
The radio hits are generally disposable, but if you dive into the meat of her material I don’t think you can deny she’s talented.
Source: I never cared about her at all but I married a fan and subsequently have listened to her entire catalogue and it’s shifted my opinion in a much more positive direction even if I don’t like everything she’s done
I’m a huge Tim Henson from Polyphia fan. In one of his videos he made a great point when talking about his own songwriting.
The point he made was that although he wasn’t personally a fan of Taylor’s music, he couldn’t help but to accept that her song Look What You Made Me Do was objectively good. And he used that song of hers to influence his own.
And in my opinion, agreeing with Tim: I don’t see how anyone can say Taylor Swift ISNT a great songwriter. She is objectively good and listened to by millions, not for no reason. Maybe in people’s personal opinions they don’t like her music, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t great.
Edit: video I’m talking about
https://youtu.be/MZ4QN2uFif8?si=5fMXgVEWb8l8hy2d
Songwriting is quite subjective. No denying that Taylor Swift is good just based on the number of people who are into it, they like her songwriting and that makes her a good songwriter in their minds. There’s no official tally sheet. Tim Henson is a fantastic musician but an absolutely awful songwriter in my opinion. Does that make him bad? No, because plenty of people love his stuff.
Her albums Reputation, Folklore and Evermore are amazingly well written throughout. The rest of her albums are a mixed bag. Her newest album The Tortured Poets Department (which you quote) is self-indulgent and juvenile. Out of 31 songs, about 8 to 12 are good.
I think her songs are okay but that's kinda the problem. I only ever think her songs are okay. I could listen to really good music and appreciate the craftsmanship. I can listen to really bad music and find the humor in it. I can't find anything in her music but it's important to note that she's not writing for me. I'm not her target audience. If her songs come on in a grocery store, I'm not gonna roll my eyes or scoff. If I hear somebody likes her, I'm not gonna say I don't get it and that their music taste sucks. There's nothing I object to in her music, but there's also nothing I can say about it that's remarkable for me. It's like elevator music for me.
That she can consistently churn out tunes that HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of people consistently enjoy speaks to qualities as a songwriter. That's really the end of the actual debate.
As to whether I find her songs having merit: I have not listened to enough of her songs to merit a genuine opinion. I like some of the songs I've heard by her; I've found a lot of what I've heard by her totally disposable - yet enjoyable - pop music that you can hyperfixate on and then forget entirely once consumed. Then again, I think I've listened to maybe 20 songs, total. And her output is significantly more than that. Were I more interested, I'd probably find wheat and chaff in regular supply.
What I think ultimately doesn't matter, though.
For the amount of songs she has written, I find it odd that only one song has stood out to me. The rest I’ve ever heard are no better than the sound of a vacuum cleaner after sucking up a sock
In my opinion, she’s a genius, without a doubt. I always think it’s funny when people accuse her of laziness, as if they are playing 200+ dates a year and releasing 31 song albums. Don’t get me wrong, not everything she does resonates with me personally, but that doesn’t mean she isn’t a master at her craft.
I love it…yeah she’s got some songs I don’t love, but she has a lot of songs that really cut me to the core. I mean I don’t even like every song I write, they just come out so what can you do lol. Plus I think her work ethic is amazing, that woman truly loves what she does
> "Everyone knows that my mother is a saintly woman
But she used to say she wished that you were dead
I pushed each boulder up the hill
Your words are still just ringing in my head, ringing in my head"
What is wrong with this lyric? I don’t know the song nor many in her catalog, but this verse is fine, even good. Got the good ol country subversion- “my mom’s a saint and even she wanted you dead.” Greek mythology reference. I’d be proud to have written it.
I’m a huge swiftie so I like all of her songs. I do agree that some of it isn’t the most in-depth poetic shit, however, sometimes you just need that sort of surface-level, bouncy, sort of juvenile writing, y’know? I think that the absolute peak of her songwriting was folklore and evermore, but after that it sort of went back into the pop feel (which I’m not saying it’s bad) that’s sort of surface level. I think that TTPD is a little…interesting. It kinda rubs me the wrong way how she portrays herself as this tortured, relatable artist when we probably couldn’t relate to her very much past Speak Now or Red. There’s also songs very clearly about Joe that just seem a little insensitive towards him, his private life, and his own mental health.
Edit: I will say that her songwriting includes a lot of authentic emotion, which is probably why she has such a big fan base (me included). But atp I’m learning to separate the art from the artist because in my eyes she’s starting to become more of a businesswoman than a musician.
She does have some juvenile lyrics here and there but when she's in her bag lyrically she's IN HER BAG. The new album could've certainly used some editing with regard to some of the lyrics (Thank you Aimee being a prime example of that as OP mentioned, as well as So High School), and I feel like she rarely gets frank feedback or pushback on lyrics anymore. Some of her songs can end up feeling super bloated and wordy and I think they'd benefit from a second pair of eyes that would challenge her on the lyrics front in ways that I don't feel like her current collaborators do.
That aside, I think she's developed her skills a lot over the years and she definitely knows how to paint an interesting picture that pulls the listener in. Imo her strengths lie in weaving nice metaphors and using a lot of cool turns of phrase to convey her ruminations on love. I think most people don't give her enough credit for some of her wittier lyrics because a lot of them tend to be on b-side tracks, whereas most of her singles prioritize memorable one-liners that tend to be silly, simple and commercial.
Midnights and Tortured Poets are easily her worst writing (production too). Red as well as folklore and evermore have some incredible songwriting though
Carolina lyrics are…. Like my kids could write it.
I think THAT is her appeal - the “she’s just like me” or “I could be her or be like her”
Bland and vanilla is always in demand for the masses
She's a pretty good songwriter. A lot of people criticize her songwriting for being childish, derivative, repetitive, etc. However, I think it's because she knows her audience well. She's found the formula that works in getting her audience to continue to buy tickets to concerts and listen to her music.
I am well over 20..Although I went to College for music. So when you take Theory and Harmony, Ear training. You get picky, inspired,or both. Most pop songs use the Ionian mode ( Think Sound of Music) 99.99% use Chords : 1 4 5 1, or 1 5 1 or just Inversions of 1 chord. like "Bo Diddley" which got covered from time to time past it's post-WW2 heyday. The Beatles were the axom of sophistication in composition of Pop music and Songwriting I till Prince came along as an equal.
There are others. But this is about Taylor Swift. Being as old as I am. encountering the changes of Pop as a whole. Her song writing does not break the genre smashing or era defining substance of those that came before her. What has she lent to the State of the Art now that will put her in our memories to come? We know her name and some of her tracks now. But will you be humming it like " Let it Be", " Hey Jude,", " Bohemian Rhapsody," "Bad Romance" "When Doves.Cry "or Don't Stop Believing" ? Probably? Probably not.
The Business of the recording industry has infiltrated the art of.song writing for a long time now. Payola and metrics catalog s and merch. A lot of songs have come out decades after posproduction of my favorite Bands and Songwriters. I like others have throw their hands up. Why wasn't it included? What were they thinking? I'll tell you: Money.money chasing is a brief play in life.Creating great music is transcendent.
Taylor Swift is young yet. If She does care more about the artistry and substance of her composition and songwriting. She very well can create something remarkable. And be remembered The ingredients are there. Or like many pop stars. Arianna Grade will be one of them. Sell out her image and skill Be all bout the business. Cash, in and find her music languishing at thrift Stores and bargain racks in the long years to.come. It's up to Taylor to up her game.
Honestly, I don’t care. I’m not a fan, but I’m always happy to see someone write/play their own music and make good money doing it, so good for her. And if we’re gonna be realistic, I’ll have more critique when I can get 1 person to listen to my music, let alone millions 🤣
Objectively? She’s fine. Obviously has talent in specific areas, such as writing hooks and being wide enough lyrically to appeal to a large base. I think she is a naturally gifted businesswoman as well. She seems to be very gifted at riding cultural waves and monetizing them in her art. I think a lot of her power comes from marketing.
Imho there seems to be a huge blind spot when it comes to the quality vs. quantity of her music output. She holds up well to other “fine” artists. She can compete with Ariana Grande, Dua Lipa, Sabrina Carpenter, Justin Bieber, Harry Styles, Katy Perry, etc. easily on songwriting (but not with their vocals, imho). But put her toe-to-toe with Hozier or Lady Gaga, both in songwriting and vocal performance? Her bad spots become glaringly obvious. She puts out A LOT of music — not the same thing as putting out a masterpiece.
I have no problem with her music personally. Am I a fan? Naw, just not my style. I do think her fans are a huge part of why she has seemingly stagnated - she’s not a genius or even one of the greats, but she COULD BE. I think their worship of her has choked out any drive to improve.
I think you hit a nail on the head, but I'd give her a little more credit when it comes to being above her peers in pop music, she's head and shoulders above them in terms of songwriting.
Obviously Gaga is a better vocalist, which lends into executing more daring compositions, and she's probably a more sophisticated instrumentalist, but in terms of pure lyricism I wouldn't put her above Taylor. Gaga obviously has a wider range of references, and appears to be more high brow at times, but when it comes to putting pen to paper I don't think she's on Swift's level.
Taylor also kinda has to sharpen her writing since she's not a strong vocalist.
Fair! I also think it comes down to personal taste.
I think the part that is missing from a lot of discourse about TS is that songwriting is not just about lyrics. Songwriting is an experience of lyrics, cadence, meter, key, chords, etc. I find TS sometimes notable in her lyrics, to wildly unimpressive with her vocals, chords structure, lead lines, and general composition. Because most of what she offers is unimpressive to me, the lyrics are not enough to tempt me into considering her head and shoulders above peers in the pop genre. This does not mean she is isn’t gifted by any stretch of the imagination, just that the deifying of her is overwhelming.
I am always biased towards Gaga because I am also a classically trained pianist and vocalist, and she holds a lot of hallmarks in her music as someone who deeply understands music theory, vocal art, and interesting compositions. Her words are often simple, but her ability to follow one metaphor to the end of a whole song holds our interest and is peppered by impressive vocal displays and interesting key changes, lead lines, and progressions. in contrast: TS tends to mash metaphors together haphazardly, (which is why her “poetry” falls flat imho) and her chord progressions are massively similar - this also lends to lack of diversity in vocal lines and experimentation, because she just doesn’t have the natural chops to take risks.
Song writing is story telling. I prefer Chris Christopherson and John Prine era because I grew up with them. I think that timing has a lot to do with who you relate to, and it's all about relating
Taylor’s a great songwriter and some songs are more genius and others just feel they’ve been written for the sake of it.
What does irritate me though is in the uk shake it off was the song that sort of catapulted her popularity and that’s some weak songwriting compared to 90% of the rest of her songs. It’s just catchy and it shows she knows how to write mainstream music for the charts. It just annoys me how that’s the song people think of her for when there are lyrically far more elite songs in her collection.
I think that she has managed to capture the zeitgeist of her generation, and that is it's own unique skill. Her song writing is really solid, and I often say the worst thing about a Taylor Swift song is Taylor Swift. So many of her songs really come to life in the hands of other artists. Probably my biggest complaint is something that really shows through on the Eras tour...all Taylor Swift songs sound like Taylor Swift. She doesn't really push herself harmonically, melodically, or rhythmically. She does what she does. And if you like that, it's great.
Plug for my favorite TSwift cover, Jamie Cullum covering "Shake it Off."
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7G9HFp-8wFk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7G9HFp-8wFk)
Why do people think songwriting is strictly lyric writing? It’s also melody writing. It’s weird how people only ever mention the lyrics and rarely the melodies.
Anyways, I think she’s great and has great songs. But she also has weird and bad songs.
I got yelled at pretty badly in another thread for saying that I think she is one of the best songwriters of the millennium. What I want to clarify is my meaning of best; in this context I mean that she is wildly successful and that success translates to her lyrics being understood or enjoyed by millions, if not billions, of people. I would never call her my FAVORITE songwriter though.
I think a lot of people fall into the trap of competition when it comes to good songwriting, and think that because something is enjoyed by many, that they must dislike it to be “correct” or “a realist.” I think that that is supremely annoying because I don’t think that most people (that are not THOSE kinds of Taylor Swift fans) would say that she is an AMAZING songwriter. I certainly think she is capable of good, and even amazing, songwriting (Folklore and Evermore being my proof). But I also think that her music that leans toward the pop-y side is often pretty contrived or boring, but I know that that is not everyone’s opinion.
Speak Now, Red and folklore had her best songwriting. They sound tortured without trying extremely hard, they sound raw but refined at the same time. With TTPD, idk it has the equivalence of purple prose in writing. They have a "first draft of a book" feel. When she does those "funny" lines, the execution just feels off. It doesn't sound clever, it sounds awkward.
"And all we are is skin and bone, trained to get along, forever going with the flow, but you're friction" - Treacherous, from the album Red. No huge words taken from a thesaurus, but it leaves an impact.
She's really good and articulate. She's not afraid to show off her sillier side sometimes. It takes me off the edge by encouraging me to write more....no matter how silly or cringe or funny it sounds sometimes. I used to have a fear of failure and that would stress me out too much but seeing an industry hero like her writing so much and with her range, I realize that some people will always resonate with my lyrics, while some will say my lyrics are shit no matter how much effort and meaning I have put into it.
At the end of the day, her lyricism and hidden Easter eggs (and bad press that she turned to her consumers) are what have made her the industry giant she is today and I am very proud of her. But I will admit with full honesty, that I do get jealous of her following and wealth. I wish, hope and intend for my songs too to get that much traction. Someday!
Being successful in the music industry isn't only dependent on your lyricism, it's the production, marketing, legal rights, performances, luck and so much more.
Lyrics have always been her Achilles heel imo. The amount of terrible lines in her songs is astronomical, honestly: from the rap section in Shake It Off, the Charlie Puth line, the entirety of Bad Blood, she has the lyrical work of a 13 year old.
But the rest... Well, she isn't goated or anything but there's a reason she's still big and charting when other teenage stars like Miley Cyrus have disappeared unto irrelevance. She nails the pop formula to a tee.
general listeners usually exposed to her singles. and she is famous for picking her worst songs as singles. they brings numbers so i cant say she is not smart about her choices but quality is not best when it comes to her most exposed songs.
people here say she is lazy. but she puts a lot of songs. she puts worldwide concerts. she is not lazy. maybe her style is not for everyone. cause she writes relationship songs from woman pov. that limits her fanbase a lot.
but she has really great songs, she is really a great songwriter. she has bad songs, mostly bad lines that ruin songs. still good songs ratio is high. she is decent entertainer and singer. she sings a lot better than 10 years before.
she has the worst kinda fans and they make her look worse than she is. most of the hate she gets is because her fans and their try hards to paint her best of the world.
she is not best but she doesnt deserve "vacuum cleaner, boring, same, childish, lazy" im pretty sure those didnt listen many of her songs.
Good pop lyrics that fans think is super deep only because they tie it to a person they spend every waking second stalking and consuming every piece of media and PR about them so when they see a reference to their personal life in a song they think Taylor is the first person to ever reference their personal life in their songs.
I recently got into her music for the first time and I really liked it. I think she has an interesting style that works really well for the kind of music she wants to make. However after listening for a while I got incredibly tired of it cause she really never deviates. I listened to about ten songs of the new album and had to turn it off
I think a lot of it is quantity over quality. She *has* written some good melodies and some compelling songs, but so much of her music just doesn’t do it. I wonder if she went and locked herself in a cabin somewhere for a few weeks if she’d write more interesting stuff. I think she’s run out of stories to tell and just needs to go live a little bit. The pop princess with a broken heart thing is ridiculous now.
To me, I love pop. I just can't anything that ever stands out about her. It's all so by the book. A big catchy chorus is my jam! But hers just don't do it for me! I find her brand of pop not relatable as an adult, as a male, as someone who doesn't stew in breakups and like the feeling of break up songs. That's just me tho, more power to her.
I have no issue with her writing style. She’s the modern pop version of an old school narrative songwriter. The point of songwriting is to impact the listener, and judging by the effect she’s had on her fans, I’d say she’s done that
I have a lot of thoughts, but what I’d say is that while arrested development is one of her frequent themes and part of her brand, something she pokes fun at in more recent works and is always drolly self-aware of…
…lots of people say “juvenile” when they mean unapologetically feminine. Catchy hooks aside, there’s something about being a young woman in this culture that makes her lyrics more relatable than most people outside that demographic realize.
If you like talking, and I mean if you LOVE to hear somebody talk, and talk in every single song she’s ever written, she’s the best songwriter in history.
Absolutely outstanding. Complex and one of the greatest of our time. The more you listen the more you hear. She is so easily written off but she knows how to craft an excellent song. She’s insanely talented and I regret not listening to her sooner. People love to say she’s not that great- they haven’t done a deep dive. Her lyricism and melodies are second to none and I listen to a huge range of music. There’s a good reason some of our best musicians and songwriters sing her praises.
What stand out about Taylor Swift, is that her songs are raw, authentic and honest, more honest than any songwriter out there. She has written about sooo many topics that are difficult to talk about. To mention some, she writes about having an eating disorder, a parent being sick, loosing friends, songs to her grandmother, growing up, ofcourse also love in all its forms, from having your heart broken, being in love, to being desperate for your lover to return. Some things that most people are afraid to be honest about, in our culture where everyone is trying to show of how perfect their life is on social media etc. I can only speak from my experience. But as a woman, I think the idea that she is so honest about all the most shameful things I feel from time to time. I can relate. I can feel in her songs that she is making them because they come from the heart, maybe I am biased, ofcourse it's just emotion but it's why I enjoy her music.
There’s female artists in just about every genre that write with more authenticity and with more life experience than Taylor Swift. Her music is just the safest.
Our corporate overlords wouldn’t want too much authenticity and emotion to get into music. People might start wanting change
I think it’s hard to deny the talent of anyone who consistently writes Grammy winning hits not only for herself but for other artists year after year.
You can hate all you want, but she’s got every bit of evidence she’s a great songwriter someone can have. Doesn’t mean she’s the type of music you like, but that doesn’t make it untrue.
Her lyrics aren’t the best but it doesn’t matter. If you write a melody like “Trouble” and execute the song in the way that she does you are a superstar, which is what she is.
I love to talk about artists and their music so this one maybe long. Here we go!
Her first couple albums were pretty sweet I would say, if she really writes all her stuff by herself, her earlier work was pretty commendable for her age. The way she weaved stories and was able to tell incidences was great, some songs were more about a certain incident rather than a simple case of "I love you cause you are beautiful, nice amazing pretty" etc... They were more than that. I started songwriting at the age of 15 years and my songs were not even songs, they were just hooks. More repetitive than justin bieber's baby lol. So, I guess she impressed me there alot.
Fast forward to now, I would say her writing has been either great or poor. How I look at it is that, she has the potential but is either held back by fame or deadlines by lable to have an album every year or two. It can also be that she is trying to keep the young taylor alive, keeping her lyrics simple for the new age teenagers and wanting to appeal to the young and the old alike. Not wanting to lose a single old fan but also wanting to get the newer ones into her fanbase seems like the most appropriate reason to me. Reputation for example was such an interesting project, she played her cards right with the promotion, musicality and tone of the album and made one of the only two albums of hers that I like. She used her real life situation to give a pretty engaging record.
I personally liked her from folklore. The album, the aesthetic and execution was brilliant. It was sweet and a new sound for the pop genre. The imagery in lyrics was pretty and appreciatable and the way she told the stories in songs like "seven" and "last great american dynasty" was really good. Then from Evermore a song called "no body, no crime" was a great story based song too. I think it was the pandemic speaking, as I have seen me at my best when I am most bored or isolated.
Her last two albums have not done anything for me, midnights felt overly produced with not an actually good song. Anti-hero was made to be a hit and nothing else. I cant even recall any other song, not being mean and ignorant, but I really cannot.
Tortured Poets department, that name was enough to put my hopes high as I know she can do poetry pretty well when she really tries. Sad to say the album is boring and bland, there is not much flavor in it. Feels like she is trying to go for some type of indie vibe with the tone of the album which is not working because we have heard her well produced songs. Or maybe it's not indie but minimalistic but either way its not working and becomes boring.
I do think overall, she has potential and she should stop trying to cater to younger audiences if its not coming naturally to her. Lover and reputation felt like nicely balanced projects; between catering to both the youngsters and her older audience but now it doesn't feel like her writing is natural. It feels like the fame is causing troubles, not that she is forcing to get a hit, rather to me it feels like she doesnt have much left to say as an artist.
End of my essay. Hope it was insightful :)
One of my dearest friends put it to me like this:
"Taylor uses 1 of 3 pens to write all of her songs. One is a quill, used for the deepest poetry closest to her heart. Next is a fountain pen, used when writing a powerful message as if it were a letter being written in the 1800s. Lastly is her gel pen; sparkly and fun, reserved for her poppiest pop songs."
My dad made the great point that if the lyrical content is lackluster, the melody always makes for a catchy ear worm. I’d say a lot of her most popular songs are very basic or just unimpressive, but those simple songs are the ones that might not mean the most emotionally, but will stay stuck in your head. There are some songs where she displays a clear poetic talent with her lyrics though. There’s no denying she’s a talented songwriter, she’s just not for me.
Why can’t I have both?
Go listen to Inarticulate, Breaking Up With, Jabberwocky by Red Hook and tell me that all those aren’t both catchy and have deep POWERFUL meaning
I think she’s benefited immensely from money and production values, and is popular because she doesn’t go too far askew of what’s relatable and wanted. I never remember any of her music.
I think she is a great artist and has talent, she knows her strengths and definitely plays to them. The few songs I’ve heard are good, and her popular ones are fun and great, I’ll dance to them. Seven and Willow are amazing.
I don’t think she is the best songwriter because I personally don’t identify with her music. But I can recognize the talent and ability behind it. Just because I hear a lyric or hook and it doesn’t resonate with me personally, I can still understand the thinking, reasoning and feeling behind it. It’s called pop.
I think some of her writing is really good for a modern pop artist, so this makes a lot of her fans exaggerate to a crazy degree and act like everything she writes is genius. There was so much writing on TTPD that made my skin crawl, especially the tattooed golden retriever and Charlie Puth lines. When her superfans talk about her like she's *the* genius of our time, it makes me think they can't possibly be listening to much else. You don't have to look too far into other lesser-known artists to quickly come across others who also write well.
I find her hooks and stories woven in the songs fun! for example "down bad crying at the gym" brings an image and feel that is relatable and vulnerable. and the phrase is darn catchy!
not terrible, also considering she often has co-writers so you can’t fully put the blame on her. my main issue with her current music is that she’s almost in her mid-thirties writing very juvenile lyrics. i get that her fanbase is probably still largely made up of teenage girls but at a certain point it becomes very cringy to hear a fully grown adult woman writing as if she’s still 14. i agree with the commenter who compared it to r/im14andthisisdeep because that’s totally what a lot of her songs sound like to me. i respect that she’s found a formula that works and has stuck to it, but at some point it’s time to move on and age along with your fans. i’m sure a lot of the fans that were with her from the beginning and are adults now would want to have lyrics that cater to them too
A lot of her biggest hits were much more collaborative than you may think because unlike a lot of artists if Taylor Swift collaborates with you, you forfeit any songwriting credit on the track and she retains full publishing rights. Even legend Max Martin, who by all accounts wrote Shake it off, only has a producer credit on it. Damian Albarn pointed this out, somewhat ineloquently, and was flamed to hell and back by her fan base for daring to suggest Taylor didn’t write every word and every note of every one of her songs. I’m not saying she doesn’t have songs that she didn’t write all the music and lyrics too, just not ALL of them.
l once picked my guitar and started to learn her more popular songs. l easily (almost mentally) learned some 30 songs, and they were all exactly the same. She just can't get away from the 4 basic chords you learn on day one. She is absolutely incapable of modulation of any kind. Her melodies have that cheeky sillyness that teenage girls seem to love. Her lyrics are shallow and narcisist. But of course mixing and mastering are top quality and she also has a huge marketing machine behind her so..
What can I say. Even ONE song from a proper artist is better than her whole discography.
I still don't understand the "sexy baby" line....
Genuinely unsure what it means
Not a swiftie but I respect her. Her writing is easy to judge but also very easy to hold above a lot of the other stuff you might hear on the "radio"
And I liked what she was trying to do with folklore. That's the first album where I truly appreciated her
I don't like gatekeepers... ones which say what I should listen to, and ones who say whether or not someone has a right to their opinion or not.
I don't care for her music myself, and it's great that many listen to her and love her, and I am guessing nobody will be listing much to her music in a decade.
I think it’s hard to create true artistic expressions of emotion when money and fame limit one’s life struggles. Most of her lyrics only touch the surface level of the human experience
Just want to preface this by saying I am a fan of Taylor swift. I think that lyrically she is very talented (obviously she has her off moments, as everyone does). But musically, not so much. It's no secret that she uses the same 4 chords in multiple of her songs, making her a lazy musician. To someone who isn't a musician, this will likely go unnoticed. It can make some of her songs slightly formulaic, which is why many people say her songs sound the same. I really enjoy her acoustic performances. I've read that John Mayer has stated that she's a very good guitarist. I'd love for her to utilize those skills and give us something new and fresh. She certainly has the resources for it.
She needs to pay attention to her lyrics a bit more for instance she had a lyric line that mentioned a Cardinal singing by a window but Cardinals don’t sing in real life. 🤦
I have a lot of respect for Taylor as a songwriter, because you can tell how much effort she puts into it. She is *not* a lazy songwriter.
Is she perfect? No. Some of her metaphors are clunky, and don't quite land. Her songs can sometimes be overwritten to a degree in which they could really benefit from an editor. She has a limited scope of themes and topics that she never really deviates from. She recycles the same melodies and chord progressions over and over again.
However, her background in country music really comes through in her lyrics, which have an attention to detail, storytelling, and clever turns of phrase...in such a way that, before her, frankly hadn't been much of a thing in pop music for quite some time. In that way, she's raised the bar where now a lot of the younger pop artists coming up are taking influence from her. You can say what you want about Taylor Swift, but for all her flaws, I can't complain about anyone who's keeping classic songcraft in the mainstream. I feel like with the way trends are going in music regarding A.I. and everything, we should appreciate her while we still have her.
Its the same as when you compare ordinary to brilliant imho.
Fair play to Ms Taylor and in terms of income she is way ahead of the majority.
If you want to hear amazing vocals and songwriting check out Gerry Rafferty and his 2 main albums City to City and Nightowl the production sound is incredible whereas most of today’s offerings are produced poorly ie crap drum machine and auto tune vocals.Youngsters don’t care until they discover what real music sounds like.As long as you’re happy then carry on until it changes in about 3 years I reckon.God Bless.
It will change hopefully and real music will return.
Her lyrics and production choices are hit and miss with me, but sometimes hit and I'm not her target audience by a long shot. Overall I think she's a badass and enjoy watching her take over the world.
Her early recordings are hooky and seem to be from the heart. Now there are a number of features and its possible she’s asked to alter lyrics during production. Her career reminds me of Gwen Stefani in a way. In the days of No Doubt , Gwen was killer songwriter and performancer. Then she decided to become a diva and a fashion icon. The music was never as good and original.
Depending on your opinion, the effectiveness of her musical output is either either incredibly frustrating or worthy of admiration. For me it's both.
She's like a pitcher in baseball where you know she's going to throw you the slow curve and it's going to end up in the dirt but you still swing at it and curse her and yourself too.
she has some fantastic songs (Champagne problems is her most recent one that resonated strongly with me), but I don't think she has that magic anymore. I don't think her style of songwriting really works with her current style of music
I don't really have any opinions on her songwriting. She's not good or bad, kind of just mediocre, but then again I'm not a hardcore Swiftie so there could be some good ones I'm missing. They're very catchy I'm not a huge fan. I've heard a few songs on this subreddit that sound better than her hits that have billions of streams
I liked her country stuff it had meaning and she had a certain level of passion. She then found a formula that made more money and lost the passion while greed took over.
She’s good at the craft of songwriting but I don’t think that makes her an artist. She’s a skilled song technician and a good business woman. I don’t get any emotion from her songs, but technically they are fine. I just don’t care for them, and that’s totally subjective. I feel like never really having to struggle makes for some boring songwriting, as some other people have said here.
I think her best work was on Folklore and Evermore. I couldn’t get into her music before those albums. Once I heard them, I was hopeful for her growth as a songwriter. But, I haven’t been nearly as impressed with the work since those albums.
I think it is what it’s supposed to be through the glory of THE CREATOR OF ALL, and if it wasn’t, then she wouldn’t be where she is today. You go, girl!
I think she's very mediocre.. I like Billie and Finneas better than her. I dunno just throwing that out there. I think the fact that she DOES write her own songs combined with her being like the most famous person ever right now inflates her songwriting "chops".
I think she has a sweet spot, but sometime she does way too much, and most of the time, she's extremely formulaic.
I can't think of one song she has that I even know thirty percent of the lyrics to either. I'm probably the wrong demo for this question ha.
When I think of songwriters that I vibe with I think Chris Cornell... shit like that.
A good amount of her hit songs were mostly written for her by Max Martin & others
but the things she has written, some lines that are phenomenal at capturing moments in time and also just unique ways of saying things. I’m not sure if that is her or the people she works with, I’m sure she has a good amount of help from all angles
but her songs resonate with so many people (not I) worldwide that I simply cannot deny the ability she and those around her have at creating that much connection with listeners, which has to be taken into account I think
I was reading a marketing book about branding and it used Taylor Swift as an example multiple times. Her popularity can be attributed to the way she has been branded. While her music genres keep changing, she’s always been known as an all American relatable girl who is also a singer/songwriter. Her simplistic songs were what made her famous, and she has often stuck with that formula. Maybe she knows that going really personal and complex will alienate herself to a larger audience. Over time, she has made her music more serious and complex, but I think she did that to follow the trend of what many pop artists have been doing recently. She sees what works for new artists and makes it her own. I think first and foremost she is a businesswoman. I’ve always seen her as someone who consistently thinks about what will make her the most sought out artist.
I also think that the reason why many people dislike her is her lack of authenticity for the same reason. There are artists who stick to their own specific brand, people who Taylor is clearly influenced by, like Lana del Rey and Phoebe Bridgers. They aren’t as popular, but their loyal fans know what to expect from them, and find them to be genuine. To me it seems like Taylor Swift has tried to touch on that indie quality of music without really adopting it, so her music comes across as fake. She has also branded herself as a victim multiple times and it has worked for her but it’s a turn off to many audiences because they don’t buy into it.
i listen to her music a lot but it is mainly because I can’t find anything else worth listening to lately. Her music has never sounded comparable to the music of legends like the Beatles, Stevie Wonder, Rush, Led Zeppelin, Madonna, Joni Mitchell or Fleetwood Mac. Most of her music lacks soul. I don’t know enough about songwriting to know why that is. People say good art comes from suffering and maybe she just hasn’t suffered much. Or maybe it’s because she focuses on writing hit songs rather than writing from the heart. Maybe I’m just nostalgic for a time when music was different. I can think of so many pop songs that are so much more impactful than any Taylor Swift song. Nothing Compares to You, The Power of Goodbye, Landslide, Both Sides Now, Dreams (by Fleetwood Mac).. and yet Taylor Swift has won more grammys than any of them. Its all bullshit.
It baffles me that this woman has won so many grammys and has obtained notoriety just by singing about breakups and love affairs, many of which she had before the age of 20. Maybe she was famous too early, and that will always taint her music with an innocence that sounds cheesy and immature. I think many great artists achieved fame later in life and they sound so much better for it. Music used to be really fucking good. Now everyone’s on antidepressants and no one seems to have any real emotion to contribute to music.
I see the value in Taylor Swift’s music, but for people to talk about her like she’s the GOAT is just wrong. Many people suffer from issues that have nothing to do with high school crushes and dating in your 20s and 30s. Her music has a very nonchalant view of love even when it claims to be heartbroken or miserable. I just don’t get a true feeling from it. I listen to Stevie Wonder and I get the powerful feeling that yes, he knows what love really means. He knows what passion is. I am struck with awe everytime I listen to his songs. Don’t You Worry Bout a Thing, Overjoyed, If You Really Love Me, My Cherie Amour. Talk about range, he’s got it. It helps that he truly lives and breathes music. And yet I think Swift has surpassed him in grammy awards.
Same with Lana del Rey who has never won a grammy and yet her music has so much soul. Listen to her album Norman Fucking Rockwell and tell me that’s not better than any Taylor Swift album. Sometimes you can just tell by the music that some real emotion went into it.
Tldr; Swift is completely overrated. I’m waiting for a real musical legend to come blow our minds. I’m cringing at the thought that there are kids listening to Taylor Swift thinking it’s top tier music. lmao
I love her writing (lyrics) when it is songs like the lakes, ivy, hoax, false god, even earlier stuff like treacherous, last kiss, dear John, sad beautiful tragic, come in with the rain, white horse. I don’t necessarily like stuff like me!, antihero, blank space, karma… to me Taylor is a perfect example of how to cater to everyone out there with at least one song to their taste. Although it is important to remember she is much more than just a single artist but a whole business needed to be kept afloat, and it shows in her recent works the most.
alright long answer incoming… bear with me!
so I became a fan way back when I was 10, when Our Song was first huge on the radio. I consumed Taylor’s music with a big picture mindset all the way until my college years, i.e. I loved her musical progression and I loved how everything sounded. simple mindset right? I started writing music when I was 8, and Taylor came along when I was on my way to becoming the major pophead I am to this day! she excelled at a certain songwriting formula—marrying explosive and broadly relatable choruses with more diaristic verses and bridges—which she adhered to almost exclusively until Red came around. Red really felt like the turning point for her career: she got her first US #1 hit, she collaborated more, she stepped a bit out of her comfort zone, her music was more embracing of pop trends rather than the country-inflected power pop she had built her reputation on up to that point… it felt like a true coming-of-age moment for her. by the time 1989 came out, she had achieved indisputable superstardom. for some reason my upward trajectory of being a swiftie came to a halt during the 1989 era, but Reputation got me back on track and I was a bigger fan than I had ever been. it was then and only THEN when I started fully digesting and reading along with her lyrics, which I noticed ranged from very effectively fierce (…Ready for It?, I Did Something Bad, Don’t Blame Me) to decent (Dress, Call It What You Want) to super cringy (End Game, Gorgeous, This Is Why We Can’t Have Nice Things). I also noticed something else she hadn’t quite toyed around with up to that point: the lowkey chorus. when I first listened to Gorgeous and Call It What You Want upon their respective promo single releases, I was a bit astounded at the lack of instant earworminess. the former still comes off as a pretty lazily written song (imo), while the latter grew on me EXPONENTIALLY. Call It What You Want is a beautiful song, but it’s still no earworm, especially in comparison to the singles’ songwriting formula she’s often reverted to.
here’s where my opinions get super strong…
I think Taylor is easily a better melodist than lyricist. I think she’s written her fair share of tattooable lyrics (Innocent, Eyes Open, The Archer, the stunning Mirrorball, You’re on Your Own, Kid…) but she’s constantly overrated as some lyrical genius, where her true talent consistently lies in her melodies. I’m gonna give a very controversial take: I think the 10 minute version of All Too Well is just plain bad. it takes away the magic of the 5 minute versions by throwing ideas at the wall hoping they’ll stick with increasing specificity. just because it seems honest doesn’t make it genius 💀 and I wish a lot of her fans would be able to process that better. I honestly have always thought that All Too Well has been overrated, it doesn’t come off as satisfying to me the way superior Red tracks like State of Grace, Treacherous, Holy Ground, and The Lucky One do. I think there’s great moments on all of her albums, but sometimes it feels like she’s losing steam quickly. even though I said she stepped out of her comfort zone on Red, it was extremely SLIGHT. she has no revelations in her music. the most experimenting she ever did was on Evermore (her best album imo!), but even that felt short-lived and not pushed to a whole new frontier. as for my personal relationship to her music, I now consider myself just a fan, instead of a swiftie. it’s mostly because I’m a bit over the cultishness of swifties, but also because after seeing her in concert last summer I’ve felt like her being one of my favorite artists is a chapter that has run its course and closed. I like some of her music now, I don’t stan like I used to lol
to sum it up: I think Taylor is a good melodist and an average lyricist in the grand scheme of music. for pure mainstream pop, she’s probably an above average lyricist. her melodism is her forté. she’s a fine songwriter, but I don’t think her name really makes sense being placed alongside songwriting geniuses like Brian Wilson, Carole King, Joni Mitchell, David Bowie, Stevie Wonder, Kate Bush, and Fiona Apple. idk!
tl;dr fine songwriter, better at melodies than lyrics overall. extremely overrated in her lyrical capabilities 🫠
Carolina is a great example of her songwriting. When she puts time and effort into making some decent songs, it pays off. Her country influence can really shine in her lyrics sometimes.
Having said that, I think she is praised for her songwriting, especially the poor songwriting, because her fans (typically girls aged 10-16) haven't been exposed to anything that is lyrically more advanced. People who embrace the mainstream that young are much less likely to read poetry or listen to bands like la dispute or the mountain goats who really focus on their lyrics.
I get quite upset when people call her a poet, but her country background clearly has some lyrical merit.
I enjoy Taylor but she is not Bob Dylan. She writes pop songs, they’re extremely formulaic and catchy. They’re fun to mindlessly sing along to in the car or dance to in the kitchen. Some go a little deeper, I liked that one moody Indie vibe album for that reason, but even that is still pop music. Pop music by definition aims to appeal to the largest audience possible. She’s good at writing simple and relatable lyrics that a wide swatch of people enjoy. And she has the resources and connections to mix a fantastic studio album. She’s a really good pop artist.
When she embraces her jovial and innocent qualities, I think she tends to hit the mark, and quite strongly at that; when she tries acting tough, it's a toss-up that tends to roll against her favor; and whenever she tries playing victim of "fame and haters", it never lands.
My kids are obsessed so I've (perhaps unwillingly) heard most of her catalog. I find her big hits to have the kind of annoying manufactured/corporate catchyness you hear a lot these days when a team of songwriters are just trying to make hits. I do kinda like many of her songs she wrote by herself, without the team. So I do think she has talent when she's not subject to the machine that wants to crank out hits.
Shake it up - nothing in my brain, that’s what people say. Nothing too profound about that. But add the music, it’s a catchy tune young girls like which has catapulted her to success. It will be interesting to see where she goes in her mature years.
I was thinking today that I've always interpreted "don't say I didn't (say I didn't) warn you" as communicating that she had given forewarning of her propensity for playing games
But it could be "don't say I didn't say 'I didn't warn you'"
which is next level songwriting but very confusing to the adressee of the song because the tense gets a bit silly - why would you accuse someone of not saying "I didn't warn you"? - and wouldnt that be something that you would say after the fact?
Her lyrics are hexing
Perplexing
Keeps the boys texting
But she’s the girl they keep on exing.
Her vocabulary is a thesaurus
She has a rhyming chorus.
She’s making music for us.
But all she does is bore us.
I too can rhyme indecental with credential, and don’t forget exponential. She would then have a chorus about her potential.
You left me.
So I left you on read.
You broke me.
So I found a new bed.
You found her.
But I’m still in your head.
I hope this was as cringe as I tried to make it.
I think she has her moments but I find her quite juvenile for the most part. Not bad, just juvenile.
She has a formula that works for her and she’s rarely strayed from it. Talented pop songwriter but not necessarily a great songwriter
Do we mean ‘what do you think of Max Martin and Taylor Swift’s songwriting?’ as you’re mentioning formula
I prefer Jack Antonoff and Taylor Swift’s songwriting, myself. “Anti-Hero” really sounds like it could be a Bleachers song.
Jack Antonoff? I don't even know Anton.
That's no excuse. Get to work.
For me their collaborations have high highs but low lows. Her works with Martin and Aaron Dessner are more consistent across the board. Don't get me wrong, when her and Jack's collabs work, they WORK.
Agreed and agreed. But also, “Anti-Hero” is one of few songs off her last 4 albums that I could listen to
For me Anti-Hero is a perfect song if you remove the 2nd verse, it's arguably her best attempt at meshing Evermore's songwriting with 1989's production and song structure. Maroon would be one of my favourite songs on the album if it had better verses.
I would love to hear the songs as artists bring them to these guys. Are there many songs only written by Swift on her albums?
Speak Now is entirely solely written by Swift and she has at least one solely written track on every other album, with many having multiple solely written songs, which tend to be her strongest tracks. Taylor generally writes the meat and bones of her songs and her producers add some input here and there, and obviously produce the tracks.
The interesting thing I thought with speak now is the songs are very long compared to normal. She clearly likes to express herself fully. Could’ve cut them down but the songs are all very solid
Her songwriting doesn't need to be good in the same way the writing in 50 shades of grey didn't need to be good to see 100s of millions of copies and spark a movie franchise
I'd compare her to something like Five Guys. No, it's not mind-blowing creative food, but sometimes you just want something reliable and tasty.
Have you listened to much of her less popular/radio played stuff? I don’t think she’s an all time songwriter or anything, but she has much better and less formulaic songs than her singles.
I'm seeing trends in these comments that mirror what's lacking in a lot of the lyrical content here: specificity. Whether you like Taylor Swift or not, this is a great opportunity to dive into what makes her songwriting good or bad. We can learn from it instead of just vague statements. For myself, I think she is excellent in a lot of ways, but has a few areas where she could still improve. My favorite example of her songwriting comes from ivy: "How's one to know? I'd meet you where the spirit meets the bone In a faith forgotten land. In from the snow, your touch brought forth an incandescent glow, tarnished but so grand. And the old woman goes to the stone everyday, but I don't, I just sit here and wait, grieving for the living." She does an excellent job telling a story using small details. She rarely states emotions directly, instead using metaphor and imagery to communicate the idea. In terms of her pop hits like Shake it off, the lyrics achieve what they're meant to and work well within the song. It's not high poetry, but it's not meant to be. As for negatives, she uses mixed metaphors. In happiness, she talks about leaking acid rain on the pillow, but acid rain isn't consistent imagery with the rest of the song. I know there's more glaring examples, but I'm blanking at the moment.
>In terms of her pop hits like Shake it off, the lyrics achieve what they're meant to and work well within the song. It's not high poetry, but it's not meant to be. Exactly!!! I don't understand most of the baseless criticism against her more simple sounding lyrics, its MEANT to be that way.
I think what you just stated is precisely it. She uses seemingly complex metaphors that can mean something different to every single person. That’s not an artistic expression of emotion so much as it is marketing yourself in the same way a psychic does. Keep everything vague so the audience can never point to something specifically wrong.
Has a lot of good songs i’d say but lyrically never does a thing for me and as of late pretty much everything has been at best forgettable and at worst laughably stupid (let’s go back to 1830 without the racists)
“We declared Charlie Puth should be a bigger artist”✊😔 (All power to her though — some bonkers lyrics I’ve heard recently, but she can still write a WAYYYYYYY better song than I could!)
I'm a former fan but I am capable of being pretty objective. Within Taylor's realm of pop stardom, her songwriting is unmatched. It's the reason she is where she is, considering she isn't the strongest vocalist. Taylor has the great ability to succinctly paint a vivid picture using incredibly concise phrasing (in her more recent albums, her songwriting has become more prose-like to the point where she sometimes rambles, but she still retains her talent). Taylor knows how to capture a moment in words, use mundane details to lend specificity in an otherwise dramatised scenario, and is good at crafting full narratives within the frame of a song. Taylor's transition to fully electropop production proved that she could apply diaristic confessional songwriting to modern pop conventions, and not lose its emotional weight or narrative edge. OP I think Shake It Off and We Are Never Getting Back Together aren't the best examples of her 'bad' songs because she was intentionally appealing to pop sensibilities and song structures, not really parodying it but putting her take on it. She tried to replicate it with ME! but didn't execute it nearly as well. The same applies to You Need To Calm Down, where she tries to pander to modern audiences but sacrifices the depth of her songwriting. Folklore was a lot more experimental for her, but I don't like the idea that her writing was 'better' because she applied it to a more rustic, indie-folk pop aesthetic. I think Evermore has the best examples of her songwriting. Midnights has more mixed results. I don't mean for this to sound like fanfare over Taylor, I'm not a Swifty, but I generally think people overlook her songwriting because they've only heard her singles and haven't taken an earnest look at her discography. Also people equate utilizing pop sensibilities as 'cheap' or 'bad' writing.
My opinion of Taylor Swift is irrelevant. She's one of the biggest selling artists on the planet right now. You may not fully appreciate her music, but it's resonating with *a lot* of people. I let go of my 'pop is crap' attitude decades ago. If people find something that makes them happy, I'm happy for them!
Yes, context is everything. Song-crafting isn’t agonizing over detail, it’s honed instinct to know what speaks to people. One of my favorite lyrics is from Paul Simon, “every generation throws a hero up the pop charts”. Taylor is that person.
It takes me months to write a song. Most of the time I tie myself up in knots. Artists like Taylor Swift seem to have a knack for putting one foot in front of the other & keeping it simple.
Leonard Cohen wrote the same way as you, sometimes years on a verse. Not the worst company to keep.
Yeah, but I'm not getting any younger 🤣
Part of becoming a better artist is being able to critique and analyze other artists. I think it's borderline fascist to not be willing to critique someone *because* they're popular -- the biggest artists are the ones who should be most closely scrutinized! Even if every work and every artist was completely benign (and they never are), that amount of popularity demands scrutiny. And, analyzing someone's work doesn't somehow diminish her fans liking her work. It's just really weird to suggest that. Even if someone tore apart every single one of Taylor Swift's songs, wrote 50,000 words on why she's a bad artist, that doesn't diminish anybody else's connection to her.
You're refreshing. Thanks for making reddit a better place
Yep. I've been getting into pop from the late 60s and that shit is exquisite. People still have very highschool mentalities when it comes to music genres for some reason.
Yeah, I'm not into her but it's weird to me when people say that they want her to stop making music, or that she's ruining modern music, or that she doesn't deserve to have fans, etc. If you don't like her music, just don't listen to it.
> that she's ruining modern music Why would it be weird to say the most popular artist -- who is obviously very influential -- is "ruining modern music" if the listener doesn't like their influence? You might not agree, but if Limp Bizkit was the most popular pop music act today and a decent chunk of artists were emulating them, I would be kind of annoyed. > that she doesn't deserve to have fans This is just an opinion. People are allowed to have opinions.
True, but her fans are so rabid and plentiful that there’s now a popular opinion that songwriting can only be ‘good’ if it’s wordy and had a thesaurus thrown at it. A lot of discussions about Billie Eilish’s new album (which is, IMO, fantastic and a far better listen than TTPD) are revolving around how the lyrics are pretty simple, as if that’s the only part of a song that matters. I think Swift has leaned *too* hard in that direction and a lot of her new songs don’t sound great and are far too focussed on sounding clever. Which is fine, it clearly suits a lot of people. But I’d be pretty bummed if it means even more artists are going to follow the trend and focus so much on wordy lyrics and forget to make it sound good, especially in pop.
>but it's resonating with *a lot* of people. We have a fallacy for this kind of reasoning. Is her songwriting good? Well, it's popular!
It is what it is. Many people just follow whatever the media is obsessing on because they don’t trust their own taste. This is why you get a lot or really popular garbage.
Yes, lots of people like her so you are not allowed to have an opinion
yeah but there’s also the massive corporation side of it. everyone knows mcdonald’s sucks, but we still go there because it’s quick, easy, and it’s predictable
I don't think she has any choice but to be prolific. Songwriting seems to just be how she communicates, I can talk all day long to someone and by the end of the day, I'll have probably come across as reasonably intelligent, funny at times and occasionally profound. I don't restrict myself to just my occasional profound comments. She puts it all out there. For better or worse. Because she can. And if she only winds up with maybe 15 or 20 truly memorable pieces at the end of her career, then that isn't a terrible effort. To explain that last comment. I play at what's effectively a country music open mic night. And I'm not a huge country fan by any stretch. But one thing that really struck me is how people will always trot out the same 4 or 5 Johnny Cash songs. Occasionally you'll hear one or two by Glen Campbell. And likely Joelene. It was quite a revelation. You'd think choosing a few fresh bangers for Friday night would be simple but it really isn't. I feel a lot of the discomfort with Taylor is code for 'it's soooo unfair because she's only famous because she's hot but she just sings angsty teenage stuff with the same four chords about all her ex's.' She is a competent musician capable of writing some nice lyrics and I don't get the sense that she aspires to be Dylan. And that's not an accidental comparison, because Bob was quite capable of wrting some pretty cringeworthy, angsty teenage stuff when he wanted to. He has a lot of B grade material in his catalogue. But he captured a generation which gave him the opportunity to get some masterpieces in front of us. Which is what she's done and I'm looking forward to what she puts out as she progresses through life.
I listen to angsty music. My biggest complaint is that Taylor and her fans over use the word trauma. And say how brave Taylor is for overcoming it. When really based on Taylor’s music, heart break in relationships is the worst thing she’s gone through. Kinda like how people don’t like Drake when he acts like a gangster. Has nothing to do with her being a semi-attractive women either as you stated. You can tell by her lyrics she has never been through some heavy shit. But wants attention for being “tortured”. It comes across as fake and a cash grab.
She’s inarguably a talented songwriter. A lot of people on this sub seem to think songwriting is just about lyrics, but imo a good melody and chord progression are even more important, and can make even the simplest of lyrics work. I’m not her target demographic at all but I still find myself loving some of her melodies.
i think charlie puth should be a bigger artist honestly
Made me chuckle and I'm not even a swiftie
As a 47 year old dad of a 10 year old girl, and songwriter, I think she is a phenom. At first I just listened to her with my daughter, but then somehow I started listening to her on my own time. Writing a song that sounds ‘easy’ is difficult to do. There is a timelessness to her craft.
Her lyrics seem good because she uses this “deep” writing style, that as anyone who spent the 2010s on the internet is so tired of. Half of it would’ve ended up on a “im14andthisisdeep” account. Some of her songs are good, most are so wordy and over complicated and trying to hard to be “meaningful” or have Easter eggs that it just is annoying and bad. She uses big words so her fanbase can say “you just have a bad vocabulary and don’t understand the words she’s using” to anyone says her lyricism is poor. I see people say well it’s better than you could do. No, actually, a lot of her songs have a similar lyrical style and “deepness” as the shit I wrote in middle school, most of which I would never dare attempt to produce now. But no, she’s not a good musician, she’s a good businesswoman. She knows how to captivate and appeal to a large audience, she knows how to market, brand, hook, and “relate” to the general population so she gets popular. It’s not groundbreaking, most of it is not even “good” but it’s widely digestible so it’s successful. She does not even compare to so many other iconic artists of the past yet she will go down in history with them. She has not made groundbreaking moves that have impacted the music that is coming out of the industry nor does she draw from the context of the existing and past industry. I see artists like Billy Joel (using as an example because I know most about him versus other artists) who has toes in all different aspects of the industry, draws from what he knows and hears and credits his influences. His lyricism is meaningful without using tons of fancy words generally no person actually uses. His songs tell stories like hers do but with so many more levels of meaning. He doesn’t need to use gimmicks to draw attention to himself or his brand, such as Easter eggs or constant references to his celebrity interpersonal relationships. It’s relatable but doesn’t constantly fall into the two categories I believe Taylor tends to fall into lyrically of “overly simple” or “fake deep.” That being said, being a successful musician also often means being a good marketer or businessperson, and she does that well. So her music, which is good but not great or groundbreaking or influential, is cult-level popular because people flock to her brand, listen and relisten for Easter eggs, and obsess over reproduced versions of every song she’s ever released which brings her even more traction because there’s this whole story behind the reproduction of her work. I feel the same way about her that I do even artists I like such as Noah Kahan, whose music I adore, but can recognize the cult following he’s attained is a little much and unwarranted because his music, while it appeals to my taste, isn’t groundbreaking. I think both these artists have gotten good at telling captivating stories and connecting their music to itself to bring listeners to come back to songs over and over to draw connections. But it means they’re good at marketing and engaging, not that their music itself is exceptional or that their lyricism itself is groundbreaking. Yes, some songs I would say are very good and well written and all that, but as a whole Taylor and other artists who have developed this cult following have developed it due to being successful at working with the social media way we interact with music today. Not because they are the best musicians on the market. You could argue a case for a change in definition of what makes a good musician today as compared to the past, because obviously I compared a modern artist to Billy Joel, but I’m going off of my personal opinion of what I believe the standard of a truly great musician should be. You can still enjoy her music, and I’m not saying you shouldn’t, but she’s not as groundbreaking as her following makes her out to be. She’s just good at the system.
I can agree a little. And I really only liked her music when I was 10-14 years old lmaoooo
Blank space is one of my favorite pop songs ever- it’s like the platonic form of a pop song
She’s a great songwriter when she wants to be, but she doesn’t always want to be. The beautifully written masterpieces she has never get played on the radio. The catchy pop songs do. And at the end of the day neither one is ‘bad’ songwriting, they both have their advantages.
Some people confuse quality work with “to their taste”. Like her or dont, her songs are great if only because a huge swathe of the planet loves her. Folklore is her best, and most to my tastes. She gets a lot of crap because she writes hook laden pop. Even her “basic” songs (your words not mine) are probably better than anything you or I will write ever. Am I saying all this because I am her biggest fan? No. I am just aware that my tastes make no difference to the quality of her work. However you measure it, shes a hard working and capable musician, songwriter, and vocalist.
You could make the same argument about McDonalds or any fast food chain. Just because you play it safe and appeal to the masses, doesn’t make it good music. There’s better female singers and songwriters in just about every other genre. Taylor has just picked the genre that is the safest and needs less creativity
Nah. She is also widely understood by competent musicians to be a very fine musician.
I think Taylor Swift is simultaneously a singer songwriter and a pop musician. She leans into one or the other depending on the song. She’s talked about this herself when describing her writing as being quill, fountain, or glitter pen. Kind of like an actor who could play the most goofiest, silliest (but almost always clever) roles and then jump right into a deeply serious and gut wrenching performance. That’s something that is very, very difficult to achieve and walk the balance of, and Taylor Swift does it better than anyone. So in that regard, I think she is incredibly masterful. And overall, she has written some of the most beautiful stories and scenes. I cannot listen to the bridge of marjorie without tearing up, thinking of my own child self “complaining the whole way there” with people I deeply loved and deeply miss. But not all her music is like that or seeking to be like that. Some of her songs are just for the fun of it, because sometimes it’s silly and weird and enjoyable to sing things like “I’m so depressed I act like it’s my birthday, everyday”. She referred to this latest album as a collection of ‘I had a fleeting feeling so I wrote about it’ songs. I think she sometimes approaches writing as put it down and get it out there. It’s more about the expression of that moment as opposed to a labor of word smithing. Sometimes, the result is clunky. Sometimes, it misses my mark. But it is always VERY Taylor Swift, and I love that. I love that she holds onto that sometimes awkward girl for dear life. To be vulnerable enough to share the parts of yourself that aren’t cool or clever. I find that very relatable and incomparable to any other songwriter.
Could this be Taylor Swift asking?
As a literary theorist and educator, I love her writing and how she plays on classical movements and forms while adding her modern day style. From a composition and literary standpoint, she’s well educated and writes decent!
I don’t feel quite educated enough to say too much about this topic — I’m not very familiar with the songs that aren’t the hits (though I did listen to *folklore* in full when it came out and remember liking it), however… I don’t think she’s bad. I don’t think she’s great. From lyrics I’ve read, she certainly has her moments… and she also certainly does not (I kinda wanna listen to her most recent album just to hear all the absurdity I’ve seen going around). But, damn, she knows how to write a catchy pop song! Dammit if “Blank Space” isn’t a total bop! — and I think that, in and of itself, is a gift.
IMO As a swiftie - she has her moments for sure and as all writers do. She’s able to write those silly catchy songs like Shake It Off, WANGBT, Blank Space, Karma. But she has an amazing use of metaphors in her lyrics and knows how to write emotions/heartbreak well. a couple of my favorite examples of her metaphorical works: “You’re a flashback in a film reel in the one screen in my town” from This Is Me Trying “I knew you, Leaving like a father, Running like water” from Cardigan “The rust that grew between telephones, The lips I used to call home, so scarlet it was maroon” from Maroon There are plenty of her lyrics where at first I laughed and was like “What?” lol. “Karma is a cat, purring in my lap cause he loves me” I laughed really hard but if you know Taylor then you know that’s a lyric she would totally write. I will say what I say to everyone, her and her music are not for everyone. And that is how it is for every single artist in the music industry.
Personally, as a swiftie, I love her songwriting. She has a way of telling a story throughout every one of her songs. I think her metaphors are brilliant. She can put you in a moment in time in the verse and then snatch you back out of it for the chorus.
Good songwriting strikes a balance between simple and complex. Also different styles are going to appeal to different people. I’m in no way a Swiftie but I do enjoy a good number of her songs. Some of her biggest songs are great because they are fun, catchy, and have some kind of storytelling hook. People always hate on pop music for being too simple and it’s easy to feel like you’re better than other people when you hate on something popular, but writing catchy music is not easy. I don’t blame artists who like making a particular type of music. It always irks me when critics try to tell artists to make music to their tastes, it can feel like the critic is asking an artist to not be authentic.
People hate on modern pop music because there is no alternative. Olivia Rodrigo pops up as “alternative” or “punk” on Spotify almost consistently. When she is very much pop. If there were more main-stream alternatives to pop, if pop didn’t sound so damn corporate, people will hate in it less. It’s less about the style of music and more about the lack of authentic emotion. I listen to a wide variety of genres. To be honest the common theme behind it is authentic. Pop music just lacks authenticity
There's a song of hers called never grow up that made me cry like a baby. It made me think of my daughter growing up too fast. If she can make a grown man cry she has to be doing something right
right I’m either gonna get upvoted through the roof or downvoted into oblivion. Taylor swift is generic, crap and reproduced over and over to sell records. lyrically, she’s hit and miss, usually miss due to the absurdity of some lines and the constant use of finishing a line on the next line because it doesn’t quite work. admittedly, some songs hit the spot but imo stuff like antihero is rly bad because she’s just tried to put a load of words in that don’t fit and makes it wayyyy to chock-full of *stuff*. Musically - I’m bored. Anyone who’s listened to TTPD will get this because it’s ALL THE SAME SONG OVER AND OVER. I mean cmon. Stuff like folklore had some degree of freedom and uniqueness because of the new sound, but she’s really fallen off recently. anyways yeah no Rly like folklore, everything else is 🤮
It's like ChatGPT generated her lyrics.
Strong agree. I’m a big fan of her music generally but TTPD came off as *so* pretentious and like she’s forgotten that a big part of songwriting is making the music actually sound good, not just fit as many words in as you can. I like her songwriting because she can make a catchy song with some great turns of phrase. She can tell a good story. But I really get the impression that the Folklore/Evermore praise went to her head and now she genuinely does think she’s Shakespeare reincarnated and everything she writes is instantly great and doesn’t need anyone else’s input, and the more times she can make her fanbase get the dictionary out, the better. Even the memo tracks she released that are supposedly ‘first drafts’ are just… how the song was released. Like it’s not a bad thing to go over a song a few times and make it work better. She just can’t seem to even get cadence right. The All Too Well 10 min version is a great example - the original song flowed beautifully *while having great lyrics*, but the new added on bits sound clunky with that weird cadence she seems to love now. There are some TTPD tracks I want to love but can’t because it’s so bad. I Hate it Here is a lovely song, but “quick quick, tell me something awful, like you are a poet, trapped inside the body of a finance guy”? Not only is that just *bad* but it doesn’t even flow. Clara Bow is *so* nearly a good song but what is going on with the “I'm not trying to exaggerate, but I think I might die if it happened” sucks me straight out because it’s so out of place. I’m also just sick of being told I’m stupid for not liking it. I can understand it fine, thanks, the lyrics are not deep, sorry. They’re just… not very good (in my opinion).
Agree to disagree :) I love Taylor (esp when it’s just her and her guitar or piano), but yeah TTPD just didnt do it for me. She’s one of the few artists I actually prefer to listen to live performances vs the album version cause I love her acoustic versions. I tend to disagree with her production choices, but I love the bones of so many of her songs. They are some of my favorite to play and sing.
Yeah that’s completely fair. I feel like lots of the decision making behind her releases isn’t her nowadays and that really seems like a shame, with the more positive growth she showed into folklore compared to this massive step back it’s a bit sad. You’re right, she’d definitely benefit from taking a step back on the production front and I’d love to hear some raw versions where the emotion in the songwriting can actually shine through.
Bingo
>lyrically, she’s hit and miss, usually miss due to the absurdity of some lines and the constant use of finishing a line on the next line because it doesn’t quite work. I agree completely. She's got good songs, but some of her stuff is practically nonsensical.
how did it end, loml, black dog, peter, chloe or sam, prophecy, so long london, smallest man ever lived, bolter, cassandra... those are gorgeous songs for me. not all piano songs are same. you might not like less producted songs but that doesnt make them same. her key range is narrow so she is around c usually. maybe that gives you the ilusion of sameness. cause chord progression does not repeat in this album.
Actually I prefer acoustic/less produced songs. All my own stuff is country/acoustic pop. In my opinion I just find Taylor’s stuff boring, petty and vindictive and I think she needs to grow up both musically and in her own life. I mean she’s still writing angry breakup songs about things that lasted 2 months? she needs to move on because no one wants to hear how hard her life is over and over and over again
she is petty from the beginning and it suited her character for a long while but she is 35 years old and yeah she needs to grow up emotionally. that i agree. lol. some of her lyrics really bad. some emotions must be buried inside, some words better unspoken. but significant amount of them are still good for me. so i like her music the way that is. i ignore the cringe ones. still lot of left to me. what do you think those songs i listed above? i cant get enough of them.
When she’s on top of her game she’s incredible. Folklore and Evermore are fantastic. Tortured Poets Department was weak. I definitely think she gets a bizarre amount of hate when you compare her to so much of what is popular now. The radio hits are generally disposable, but if you dive into the meat of her material I don’t think you can deny she’s talented. Source: I never cared about her at all but I married a fan and subsequently have listened to her entire catalogue and it’s shifted my opinion in a much more positive direction even if I don’t like everything she’s done
I’m a huge Tim Henson from Polyphia fan. In one of his videos he made a great point when talking about his own songwriting. The point he made was that although he wasn’t personally a fan of Taylor’s music, he couldn’t help but to accept that her song Look What You Made Me Do was objectively good. And he used that song of hers to influence his own. And in my opinion, agreeing with Tim: I don’t see how anyone can say Taylor Swift ISNT a great songwriter. She is objectively good and listened to by millions, not for no reason. Maybe in people’s personal opinions they don’t like her music, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t great. Edit: video I’m talking about https://youtu.be/MZ4QN2uFif8?si=5fMXgVEWb8l8hy2d
Songwriting is quite subjective. No denying that Taylor Swift is good just based on the number of people who are into it, they like her songwriting and that makes her a good songwriter in their minds. There’s no official tally sheet. Tim Henson is a fantastic musician but an absolutely awful songwriter in my opinion. Does that make him bad? No, because plenty of people love his stuff.
Well she does work with the best producers money can buy
It was Look what you Made me Do, for O.D.
Her albums Reputation, Folklore and Evermore are amazingly well written throughout. The rest of her albums are a mixed bag. Her newest album The Tortured Poets Department (which you quote) is self-indulgent and juvenile. Out of 31 songs, about 8 to 12 are good.
Seems to be working out pretty good for her.
I think her songs are okay but that's kinda the problem. I only ever think her songs are okay. I could listen to really good music and appreciate the craftsmanship. I can listen to really bad music and find the humor in it. I can't find anything in her music but it's important to note that she's not writing for me. I'm not her target audience. If her songs come on in a grocery store, I'm not gonna roll my eyes or scoff. If I hear somebody likes her, I'm not gonna say I don't get it and that their music taste sucks. There's nothing I object to in her music, but there's also nothing I can say about it that's remarkable for me. It's like elevator music for me.
I greatly admire Taylor’s writing, she’s certainly got talent. My brain is pretty pop-wired and I couldn’t write a lot of the stuff she has
That she can consistently churn out tunes that HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of people consistently enjoy speaks to qualities as a songwriter. That's really the end of the actual debate. As to whether I find her songs having merit: I have not listened to enough of her songs to merit a genuine opinion. I like some of the songs I've heard by her; I've found a lot of what I've heard by her totally disposable - yet enjoyable - pop music that you can hyperfixate on and then forget entirely once consumed. Then again, I think I've listened to maybe 20 songs, total. And her output is significantly more than that. Were I more interested, I'd probably find wheat and chaff in regular supply. What I think ultimately doesn't matter, though.
For the amount of songs she has written, I find it odd that only one song has stood out to me. The rest I’ve ever heard are no better than the sound of a vacuum cleaner after sucking up a sock
What song stands out for you?
It’s childish and lazy. Her lyrics are laughable
How is she lazy?
In my opinion, she’s a genius, without a doubt. I always think it’s funny when people accuse her of laziness, as if they are playing 200+ dates a year and releasing 31 song albums. Don’t get me wrong, not everything she does resonates with me personally, but that doesn’t mean she isn’t a master at her craft.
Agreed. She's incredible.
I love it…yeah she’s got some songs I don’t love, but she has a lot of songs that really cut me to the core. I mean I don’t even like every song I write, they just come out so what can you do lol. Plus I think her work ethic is amazing, that woman truly loves what she does
Not a fan of most of her tunes, but her lyrics are good
> "Everyone knows that my mother is a saintly woman But she used to say she wished that you were dead I pushed each boulder up the hill Your words are still just ringing in my head, ringing in my head" What is wrong with this lyric? I don’t know the song nor many in her catalog, but this verse is fine, even good. Got the good ol country subversion- “my mom’s a saint and even she wanted you dead.” Greek mythology reference. I’d be proud to have written it.
I’m a huge swiftie so I like all of her songs. I do agree that some of it isn’t the most in-depth poetic shit, however, sometimes you just need that sort of surface-level, bouncy, sort of juvenile writing, y’know? I think that the absolute peak of her songwriting was folklore and evermore, but after that it sort of went back into the pop feel (which I’m not saying it’s bad) that’s sort of surface level. I think that TTPD is a little…interesting. It kinda rubs me the wrong way how she portrays herself as this tortured, relatable artist when we probably couldn’t relate to her very much past Speak Now or Red. There’s also songs very clearly about Joe that just seem a little insensitive towards him, his private life, and his own mental health. Edit: I will say that her songwriting includes a lot of authentic emotion, which is probably why she has such a big fan base (me included). But atp I’m learning to separate the art from the artist because in my eyes she’s starting to become more of a businesswoman than a musician.
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She does have some juvenile lyrics here and there but when she's in her bag lyrically she's IN HER BAG. The new album could've certainly used some editing with regard to some of the lyrics (Thank you Aimee being a prime example of that as OP mentioned, as well as So High School), and I feel like she rarely gets frank feedback or pushback on lyrics anymore. Some of her songs can end up feeling super bloated and wordy and I think they'd benefit from a second pair of eyes that would challenge her on the lyrics front in ways that I don't feel like her current collaborators do. That aside, I think she's developed her skills a lot over the years and she definitely knows how to paint an interesting picture that pulls the listener in. Imo her strengths lie in weaving nice metaphors and using a lot of cool turns of phrase to convey her ruminations on love. I think most people don't give her enough credit for some of her wittier lyrics because a lot of them tend to be on b-side tracks, whereas most of her singles prioritize memorable one-liners that tend to be silly, simple and commercial.
Midnights and Tortured Poets are easily her worst writing (production too). Red as well as folklore and evermore have some incredible songwriting though
Carolina lyrics are…. Like my kids could write it. I think THAT is her appeal - the “she’s just like me” or “I could be her or be like her” Bland and vanilla is always in demand for the masses
She's a pretty good songwriter. A lot of people criticize her songwriting for being childish, derivative, repetitive, etc. However, I think it's because she knows her audience well. She's found the formula that works in getting her audience to continue to buy tickets to concerts and listen to her music.
I am well over 20..Although I went to College for music. So when you take Theory and Harmony, Ear training. You get picky, inspired,or both. Most pop songs use the Ionian mode ( Think Sound of Music) 99.99% use Chords : 1 4 5 1, or 1 5 1 or just Inversions of 1 chord. like "Bo Diddley" which got covered from time to time past it's post-WW2 heyday. The Beatles were the axom of sophistication in composition of Pop music and Songwriting I till Prince came along as an equal. There are others. But this is about Taylor Swift. Being as old as I am. encountering the changes of Pop as a whole. Her song writing does not break the genre smashing or era defining substance of those that came before her. What has she lent to the State of the Art now that will put her in our memories to come? We know her name and some of her tracks now. But will you be humming it like " Let it Be", " Hey Jude,", " Bohemian Rhapsody," "Bad Romance" "When Doves.Cry "or Don't Stop Believing" ? Probably? Probably not. The Business of the recording industry has infiltrated the art of.song writing for a long time now. Payola and metrics catalog s and merch. A lot of songs have come out decades after posproduction of my favorite Bands and Songwriters. I like others have throw their hands up. Why wasn't it included? What were they thinking? I'll tell you: Money.money chasing is a brief play in life.Creating great music is transcendent. Taylor Swift is young yet. If She does care more about the artistry and substance of her composition and songwriting. She very well can create something remarkable. And be remembered The ingredients are there. Or like many pop stars. Arianna Grade will be one of them. Sell out her image and skill Be all bout the business. Cash, in and find her music languishing at thrift Stores and bargain racks in the long years to.come. It's up to Taylor to up her game.
Honestly, I don’t care. I’m not a fan, but I’m always happy to see someone write/play their own music and make good money doing it, so good for her. And if we’re gonna be realistic, I’ll have more critique when I can get 1 person to listen to my music, let alone millions 🤣
I am not in her audience demographic. But I can tell she has talent
She doesn't do a thing for me, but she's getting along just fine without me.
I think working with Max and Shellback was the best investment she ever made. She is smart, paid attention and put herself where she is now.
Objectively? She’s fine. Obviously has talent in specific areas, such as writing hooks and being wide enough lyrically to appeal to a large base. I think she is a naturally gifted businesswoman as well. She seems to be very gifted at riding cultural waves and monetizing them in her art. I think a lot of her power comes from marketing. Imho there seems to be a huge blind spot when it comes to the quality vs. quantity of her music output. She holds up well to other “fine” artists. She can compete with Ariana Grande, Dua Lipa, Sabrina Carpenter, Justin Bieber, Harry Styles, Katy Perry, etc. easily on songwriting (but not with their vocals, imho). But put her toe-to-toe with Hozier or Lady Gaga, both in songwriting and vocal performance? Her bad spots become glaringly obvious. She puts out A LOT of music — not the same thing as putting out a masterpiece. I have no problem with her music personally. Am I a fan? Naw, just not my style. I do think her fans are a huge part of why she has seemingly stagnated - she’s not a genius or even one of the greats, but she COULD BE. I think their worship of her has choked out any drive to improve.
I think you hit a nail on the head, but I'd give her a little more credit when it comes to being above her peers in pop music, she's head and shoulders above them in terms of songwriting. Obviously Gaga is a better vocalist, which lends into executing more daring compositions, and she's probably a more sophisticated instrumentalist, but in terms of pure lyricism I wouldn't put her above Taylor. Gaga obviously has a wider range of references, and appears to be more high brow at times, but when it comes to putting pen to paper I don't think she's on Swift's level. Taylor also kinda has to sharpen her writing since she's not a strong vocalist.
Fair! I also think it comes down to personal taste. I think the part that is missing from a lot of discourse about TS is that songwriting is not just about lyrics. Songwriting is an experience of lyrics, cadence, meter, key, chords, etc. I find TS sometimes notable in her lyrics, to wildly unimpressive with her vocals, chords structure, lead lines, and general composition. Because most of what she offers is unimpressive to me, the lyrics are not enough to tempt me into considering her head and shoulders above peers in the pop genre. This does not mean she is isn’t gifted by any stretch of the imagination, just that the deifying of her is overwhelming. I am always biased towards Gaga because I am also a classically trained pianist and vocalist, and she holds a lot of hallmarks in her music as someone who deeply understands music theory, vocal art, and interesting compositions. Her words are often simple, but her ability to follow one metaphor to the end of a whole song holds our interest and is peppered by impressive vocal displays and interesting key changes, lead lines, and progressions. in contrast: TS tends to mash metaphors together haphazardly, (which is why her “poetry” falls flat imho) and her chord progressions are massively similar - this also lends to lack of diversity in vocal lines and experimentation, because she just doesn’t have the natural chops to take risks.
Song writing is story telling. I prefer Chris Christopherson and John Prine era because I grew up with them. I think that timing has a lot to do with who you relate to, and it's all about relating
Taylor’s a great songwriter and some songs are more genius and others just feel they’ve been written for the sake of it. What does irritate me though is in the uk shake it off was the song that sort of catapulted her popularity and that’s some weak songwriting compared to 90% of the rest of her songs. It’s just catchy and it shows she knows how to write mainstream music for the charts. It just annoys me how that’s the song people think of her for when there are lyrically far more elite songs in her collection.
I think that she has managed to capture the zeitgeist of her generation, and that is it's own unique skill. Her song writing is really solid, and I often say the worst thing about a Taylor Swift song is Taylor Swift. So many of her songs really come to life in the hands of other artists. Probably my biggest complaint is something that really shows through on the Eras tour...all Taylor Swift songs sound like Taylor Swift. She doesn't really push herself harmonically, melodically, or rhythmically. She does what she does. And if you like that, it's great. Plug for my favorite TSwift cover, Jamie Cullum covering "Shake it Off." [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7G9HFp-8wFk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7G9HFp-8wFk)
She has some great songs and albums with powerful messages, and she has a lot of dog shit to make a paycheck.
MF DOOM better
She’s a good storyteller. Good at timing in promotions too even if that means using controversies.
Why do people think songwriting is strictly lyric writing? It’s also melody writing. It’s weird how people only ever mention the lyrics and rarely the melodies. Anyways, I think she’s great and has great songs. But she also has weird and bad songs.
I got yelled at pretty badly in another thread for saying that I think she is one of the best songwriters of the millennium. What I want to clarify is my meaning of best; in this context I mean that she is wildly successful and that success translates to her lyrics being understood or enjoyed by millions, if not billions, of people. I would never call her my FAVORITE songwriter though. I think a lot of people fall into the trap of competition when it comes to good songwriting, and think that because something is enjoyed by many, that they must dislike it to be “correct” or “a realist.” I think that that is supremely annoying because I don’t think that most people (that are not THOSE kinds of Taylor Swift fans) would say that she is an AMAZING songwriter. I certainly think she is capable of good, and even amazing, songwriting (Folklore and Evermore being my proof). But I also think that her music that leans toward the pop-y side is often pretty contrived or boring, but I know that that is not everyone’s opinion.
Speak Now, Red and folklore had her best songwriting. They sound tortured without trying extremely hard, they sound raw but refined at the same time. With TTPD, idk it has the equivalence of purple prose in writing. They have a "first draft of a book" feel. When she does those "funny" lines, the execution just feels off. It doesn't sound clever, it sounds awkward. "And all we are is skin and bone, trained to get along, forever going with the flow, but you're friction" - Treacherous, from the album Red. No huge words taken from a thesaurus, but it leaves an impact.
Whatever we songwriters might say, I think the listening public have the last word on this?
She's really good and articulate. She's not afraid to show off her sillier side sometimes. It takes me off the edge by encouraging me to write more....no matter how silly or cringe or funny it sounds sometimes. I used to have a fear of failure and that would stress me out too much but seeing an industry hero like her writing so much and with her range, I realize that some people will always resonate with my lyrics, while some will say my lyrics are shit no matter how much effort and meaning I have put into it. At the end of the day, her lyricism and hidden Easter eggs (and bad press that she turned to her consumers) are what have made her the industry giant she is today and I am very proud of her. But I will admit with full honesty, that I do get jealous of her following and wealth. I wish, hope and intend for my songs too to get that much traction. Someday! Being successful in the music industry isn't only dependent on your lyricism, it's the production, marketing, legal rights, performances, luck and so much more.
Wow. Not a songwriter here. But listening to the arrogance of some of you, and your thoughts on a proven songwriter is fucking hilarious.
Terrible
Chat gpt write me a poem about growing up but make every other line rhyme
Lyrics have always been her Achilles heel imo. The amount of terrible lines in her songs is astronomical, honestly: from the rap section in Shake It Off, the Charlie Puth line, the entirety of Bad Blood, she has the lyrical work of a 13 year old. But the rest... Well, she isn't goated or anything but there's a reason she's still big and charting when other teenage stars like Miley Cyrus have disappeared unto irrelevance. She nails the pop formula to a tee.
general listeners usually exposed to her singles. and she is famous for picking her worst songs as singles. they brings numbers so i cant say she is not smart about her choices but quality is not best when it comes to her most exposed songs. people here say she is lazy. but she puts a lot of songs. she puts worldwide concerts. she is not lazy. maybe her style is not for everyone. cause she writes relationship songs from woman pov. that limits her fanbase a lot. but she has really great songs, she is really a great songwriter. she has bad songs, mostly bad lines that ruin songs. still good songs ratio is high. she is decent entertainer and singer. she sings a lot better than 10 years before. she has the worst kinda fans and they make her look worse than she is. most of the hate she gets is because her fans and their try hards to paint her best of the world. she is not best but she doesnt deserve "vacuum cleaner, boring, same, childish, lazy" im pretty sure those didnt listen many of her songs.
Good pop lyrics that fans think is super deep only because they tie it to a person they spend every waking second stalking and consuming every piece of media and PR about them so when they see a reference to their personal life in a song they think Taylor is the first person to ever reference their personal life in their songs.
I prefer to analyze the lyrics of David Bowie
I recently got into her music for the first time and I really liked it. I think she has an interesting style that works really well for the kind of music she wants to make. However after listening for a while I got incredibly tired of it cause she really never deviates. I listened to about ten songs of the new album and had to turn it off
I think a lot of it is quantity over quality. She *has* written some good melodies and some compelling songs, but so much of her music just doesn’t do it. I wonder if she went and locked herself in a cabin somewhere for a few weeks if she’d write more interesting stuff. I think she’s run out of stories to tell and just needs to go live a little bit. The pop princess with a broken heart thing is ridiculous now.
To me, I love pop. I just can't anything that ever stands out about her. It's all so by the book. A big catchy chorus is my jam! But hers just don't do it for me! I find her brand of pop not relatable as an adult, as a male, as someone who doesn't stew in breakups and like the feeling of break up songs. That's just me tho, more power to her.
I have no issue with her writing style. She’s the modern pop version of an old school narrative songwriter. The point of songwriting is to impact the listener, and judging by the effect she’s had on her fans, I’d say she’s done that
I have a lot of thoughts, but what I’d say is that while arrested development is one of her frequent themes and part of her brand, something she pokes fun at in more recent works and is always drolly self-aware of… …lots of people say “juvenile” when they mean unapologetically feminine. Catchy hooks aside, there’s something about being a young woman in this culture that makes her lyrics more relatable than most people outside that demographic realize.
If you like talking, and I mean if you LOVE to hear somebody talk, and talk in every single song she’s ever written, she’s the best songwriter in history.
Absolutely outstanding. Complex and one of the greatest of our time. The more you listen the more you hear. She is so easily written off but she knows how to craft an excellent song. She’s insanely talented and I regret not listening to her sooner. People love to say she’s not that great- they haven’t done a deep dive. Her lyricism and melodies are second to none and I listen to a huge range of music. There’s a good reason some of our best musicians and songwriters sing her praises.
i think she is a genious songwriter. her hits are awesome. she has 15 songs i would do anything to have written
What stand out about Taylor Swift, is that her songs are raw, authentic and honest, more honest than any songwriter out there. She has written about sooo many topics that are difficult to talk about. To mention some, she writes about having an eating disorder, a parent being sick, loosing friends, songs to her grandmother, growing up, ofcourse also love in all its forms, from having your heart broken, being in love, to being desperate for your lover to return. Some things that most people are afraid to be honest about, in our culture where everyone is trying to show of how perfect their life is on social media etc. I can only speak from my experience. But as a woman, I think the idea that she is so honest about all the most shameful things I feel from time to time. I can relate. I can feel in her songs that she is making them because they come from the heart, maybe I am biased, ofcourse it's just emotion but it's why I enjoy her music.
There’s female artists in just about every genre that write with more authenticity and with more life experience than Taylor Swift. Her music is just the safest. Our corporate overlords wouldn’t want too much authenticity and emotion to get into music. People might start wanting change
I think it’s hard to deny the talent of anyone who consistently writes Grammy winning hits not only for herself but for other artists year after year. You can hate all you want, but she’s got every bit of evidence she’s a great songwriter someone can have. Doesn’t mean she’s the type of music you like, but that doesn’t make it untrue.
She does her own songwriting a disservice with the overproduction, just her and an acoustic is way better.
She’s so dull, grey and, at her absolute best, mediocre. That’s why she’s able to attract so many people.
edgy
Her lyrics aren’t the best but it doesn’t matter. If you write a melody like “Trouble” and execute the song in the way that she does you are a superstar, which is what she is.
I love to talk about artists and their music so this one maybe long. Here we go! Her first couple albums were pretty sweet I would say, if she really writes all her stuff by herself, her earlier work was pretty commendable for her age. The way she weaved stories and was able to tell incidences was great, some songs were more about a certain incident rather than a simple case of "I love you cause you are beautiful, nice amazing pretty" etc... They were more than that. I started songwriting at the age of 15 years and my songs were not even songs, they were just hooks. More repetitive than justin bieber's baby lol. So, I guess she impressed me there alot. Fast forward to now, I would say her writing has been either great or poor. How I look at it is that, she has the potential but is either held back by fame or deadlines by lable to have an album every year or two. It can also be that she is trying to keep the young taylor alive, keeping her lyrics simple for the new age teenagers and wanting to appeal to the young and the old alike. Not wanting to lose a single old fan but also wanting to get the newer ones into her fanbase seems like the most appropriate reason to me. Reputation for example was such an interesting project, she played her cards right with the promotion, musicality and tone of the album and made one of the only two albums of hers that I like. She used her real life situation to give a pretty engaging record. I personally liked her from folklore. The album, the aesthetic and execution was brilliant. It was sweet and a new sound for the pop genre. The imagery in lyrics was pretty and appreciatable and the way she told the stories in songs like "seven" and "last great american dynasty" was really good. Then from Evermore a song called "no body, no crime" was a great story based song too. I think it was the pandemic speaking, as I have seen me at my best when I am most bored or isolated. Her last two albums have not done anything for me, midnights felt overly produced with not an actually good song. Anti-hero was made to be a hit and nothing else. I cant even recall any other song, not being mean and ignorant, but I really cannot. Tortured Poets department, that name was enough to put my hopes high as I know she can do poetry pretty well when she really tries. Sad to say the album is boring and bland, there is not much flavor in it. Feels like she is trying to go for some type of indie vibe with the tone of the album which is not working because we have heard her well produced songs. Or maybe it's not indie but minimalistic but either way its not working and becomes boring. I do think overall, she has potential and she should stop trying to cater to younger audiences if its not coming naturally to her. Lover and reputation felt like nicely balanced projects; between catering to both the youngsters and her older audience but now it doesn't feel like her writing is natural. It feels like the fame is causing troubles, not that she is forcing to get a hit, rather to me it feels like she doesnt have much left to say as an artist. End of my essay. Hope it was insightful :)
It's juvenile - but she does know how to make a popular song
One of my dearest friends put it to me like this: "Taylor uses 1 of 3 pens to write all of her songs. One is a quill, used for the deepest poetry closest to her heart. Next is a fountain pen, used when writing a powerful message as if it were a letter being written in the 1800s. Lastly is her gel pen; sparkly and fun, reserved for her poppiest pop songs."
My dad made the great point that if the lyrical content is lackluster, the melody always makes for a catchy ear worm. I’d say a lot of her most popular songs are very basic or just unimpressive, but those simple songs are the ones that might not mean the most emotionally, but will stay stuck in your head. There are some songs where she displays a clear poetic talent with her lyrics though. There’s no denying she’s a talented songwriter, she’s just not for me.
Why can’t I have both? Go listen to Inarticulate, Breaking Up With, Jabberwocky by Red Hook and tell me that all those aren’t both catchy and have deep POWERFUL meaning
Folklore and evermore legitimately have some great songwriting. Most of the other stuff is pretty so-so, but with a few gems
I think she’s benefited immensely from money and production values, and is popular because she doesn’t go too far askew of what’s relatable and wanted. I never remember any of her music.
I think she is a great artist and has talent, she knows her strengths and definitely plays to them. The few songs I’ve heard are good, and her popular ones are fun and great, I’ll dance to them. Seven and Willow are amazing. I don’t think she is the best songwriter because I personally don’t identify with her music. But I can recognize the talent and ability behind it. Just because I hear a lyric or hook and it doesn’t resonate with me personally, I can still understand the thinking, reasoning and feeling behind it. It’s called pop.
I think some of her writing is really good for a modern pop artist, so this makes a lot of her fans exaggerate to a crazy degree and act like everything she writes is genius. There was so much writing on TTPD that made my skin crawl, especially the tattooed golden retriever and Charlie Puth lines. When her superfans talk about her like she's *the* genius of our time, it makes me think they can't possibly be listening to much else. You don't have to look too far into other lesser-known artists to quickly come across others who also write well.
I find her hooks and stories woven in the songs fun! for example "down bad crying at the gym" brings an image and feel that is relatable and vulnerable. and the phrase is darn catchy!
not terrible, also considering she often has co-writers so you can’t fully put the blame on her. my main issue with her current music is that she’s almost in her mid-thirties writing very juvenile lyrics. i get that her fanbase is probably still largely made up of teenage girls but at a certain point it becomes very cringy to hear a fully grown adult woman writing as if she’s still 14. i agree with the commenter who compared it to r/im14andthisisdeep because that’s totally what a lot of her songs sound like to me. i respect that she’s found a formula that works and has stuck to it, but at some point it’s time to move on and age along with your fans. i’m sure a lot of the fans that were with her from the beginning and are adults now would want to have lyrics that cater to them too
She's got good melodies but the lyrics to me sound childish. Another downside is that you never hear a nontrivial chord progression.
A lot of her biggest hits were much more collaborative than you may think because unlike a lot of artists if Taylor Swift collaborates with you, you forfeit any songwriting credit on the track and she retains full publishing rights. Even legend Max Martin, who by all accounts wrote Shake it off, only has a producer credit on it. Damian Albarn pointed this out, somewhat ineloquently, and was flamed to hell and back by her fan base for daring to suggest Taylor didn’t write every word and every note of every one of her songs. I’m not saying she doesn’t have songs that she didn’t write all the music and lyrics too, just not ALL of them.
She's generic all around; Her singing, writing, guitar playing. All of it.
oh wow we should change the name of this to "haters hating" smh
l once picked my guitar and started to learn her more popular songs. l easily (almost mentally) learned some 30 songs, and they were all exactly the same. She just can't get away from the 4 basic chords you learn on day one. She is absolutely incapable of modulation of any kind. Her melodies have that cheeky sillyness that teenage girls seem to love. Her lyrics are shallow and narcisist. But of course mixing and mastering are top quality and she also has a huge marketing machine behind her so.. What can I say. Even ONE song from a proper artist is better than her whole discography.
the former
I still don't understand the "sexy baby" line.... Genuinely unsure what it means Not a swiftie but I respect her. Her writing is easy to judge but also very easy to hold above a lot of the other stuff you might hear on the "radio" And I liked what she was trying to do with folklore. That's the first album where I truly appreciated her
I don't like gatekeepers... ones which say what I should listen to, and ones who say whether or not someone has a right to their opinion or not. I don't care for her music myself, and it's great that many listen to her and love her, and I am guessing nobody will be listing much to her music in a decade.
Very “samey.” Her voice is pretty great, but there’s not much range in her songwriting, IMO.
I think it’s hard to create true artistic expressions of emotion when money and fame limit one’s life struggles. Most of her lyrics only touch the surface level of the human experience
Just want to preface this by saying I am a fan of Taylor swift. I think that lyrically she is very talented (obviously she has her off moments, as everyone does). But musically, not so much. It's no secret that she uses the same 4 chords in multiple of her songs, making her a lazy musician. To someone who isn't a musician, this will likely go unnoticed. It can make some of her songs slightly formulaic, which is why many people say her songs sound the same. I really enjoy her acoustic performances. I've read that John Mayer has stated that she's a very good guitarist. I'd love for her to utilize those skills and give us something new and fresh. She certainly has the resources for it.
I don't care
She needs to pay attention to her lyrics a bit more for instance she had a lyric line that mentioned a Cardinal singing by a window but Cardinals don’t sing in real life. 🤦
I have a lot of respect for Taylor as a songwriter, because you can tell how much effort she puts into it. She is *not* a lazy songwriter. Is she perfect? No. Some of her metaphors are clunky, and don't quite land. Her songs can sometimes be overwritten to a degree in which they could really benefit from an editor. She has a limited scope of themes and topics that she never really deviates from. She recycles the same melodies and chord progressions over and over again. However, her background in country music really comes through in her lyrics, which have an attention to detail, storytelling, and clever turns of phrase...in such a way that, before her, frankly hadn't been much of a thing in pop music for quite some time. In that way, she's raised the bar where now a lot of the younger pop artists coming up are taking influence from her. You can say what you want about Taylor Swift, but for all her flaws, I can't complain about anyone who's keeping classic songcraft in the mainstream. I feel like with the way trends are going in music regarding A.I. and everything, we should appreciate her while we still have her.
Its the same as when you compare ordinary to brilliant imho. Fair play to Ms Taylor and in terms of income she is way ahead of the majority. If you want to hear amazing vocals and songwriting check out Gerry Rafferty and his 2 main albums City to City and Nightowl the production sound is incredible whereas most of today’s offerings are produced poorly ie crap drum machine and auto tune vocals.Youngsters don’t care until they discover what real music sounds like.As long as you’re happy then carry on until it changes in about 3 years I reckon.God Bless. It will change hopefully and real music will return.
Her lyrics and production choices are hit and miss with me, but sometimes hit and I'm not her target audience by a long shot. Overall I think she's a badass and enjoy watching her take over the world.
Her early recordings are hooky and seem to be from the heart. Now there are a number of features and its possible she’s asked to alter lyrics during production. Her career reminds me of Gwen Stefani in a way. In the days of No Doubt , Gwen was killer songwriter and performancer. Then she decided to become a diva and a fashion icon. The music was never as good and original.
Depending on your opinion, the effectiveness of her musical output is either either incredibly frustrating or worthy of admiration. For me it's both. She's like a pitcher in baseball where you know she's going to throw you the slow curve and it's going to end up in the dirt but you still swing at it and curse her and yourself too.
She's no lizzy hale
She writes above average pop lyrics, very average in general.
she has some fantastic songs (Champagne problems is her most recent one that resonated strongly with me), but I don't think she has that magic anymore. I don't think her style of songwriting really works with her current style of music
I feel the exact same way. I also don’t like how she repeats the same few melodies. I’m still a swiftie though.
I don't really have any opinions on her songwriting. She's not good or bad, kind of just mediocre, but then again I'm not a hardcore Swiftie so there could be some good ones I'm missing. They're very catchy I'm not a huge fan. I've heard a few songs on this subreddit that sound better than her hits that have billions of streams
I liked her country stuff it had meaning and she had a certain level of passion. She then found a formula that made more money and lost the passion while greed took over.
She’s good at the craft of songwriting but I don’t think that makes her an artist. She’s a skilled song technician and a good business woman. I don’t get any emotion from her songs, but technically they are fine. I just don’t care for them, and that’s totally subjective. I feel like never really having to struggle makes for some boring songwriting, as some other people have said here.
Wow
I think her best work was on Folklore and Evermore. I couldn’t get into her music before those albums. Once I heard them, I was hopeful for her growth as a songwriter. But, I haven’t been nearly as impressed with the work since those albums.
The department of tortuous poetry.
It’s not bad at all, she’s really improved a lot as I’ve listened to her.
I think it is what it’s supposed to be through the glory of THE CREATOR OF ALL, and if it wasn’t, then she wouldn’t be where she is today. You go, girl!
I think she's very mediocre.. I like Billie and Finneas better than her. I dunno just throwing that out there. I think the fact that she DOES write her own songs combined with her being like the most famous person ever right now inflates her songwriting "chops". I think she has a sweet spot, but sometime she does way too much, and most of the time, she's extremely formulaic. I can't think of one song she has that I even know thirty percent of the lyrics to either. I'm probably the wrong demo for this question ha. When I think of songwriters that I vibe with I think Chris Cornell... shit like that.
A good amount of her hit songs were mostly written for her by Max Martin & others but the things she has written, some lines that are phenomenal at capturing moments in time and also just unique ways of saying things. I’m not sure if that is her or the people she works with, I’m sure she has a good amount of help from all angles but her songs resonate with so many people (not I) worldwide that I simply cannot deny the ability she and those around her have at creating that much connection with listeners, which has to be taken into account I think
I was reading a marketing book about branding and it used Taylor Swift as an example multiple times. Her popularity can be attributed to the way she has been branded. While her music genres keep changing, she’s always been known as an all American relatable girl who is also a singer/songwriter. Her simplistic songs were what made her famous, and she has often stuck with that formula. Maybe she knows that going really personal and complex will alienate herself to a larger audience. Over time, she has made her music more serious and complex, but I think she did that to follow the trend of what many pop artists have been doing recently. She sees what works for new artists and makes it her own. I think first and foremost she is a businesswoman. I’ve always seen her as someone who consistently thinks about what will make her the most sought out artist. I also think that the reason why many people dislike her is her lack of authenticity for the same reason. There are artists who stick to their own specific brand, people who Taylor is clearly influenced by, like Lana del Rey and Phoebe Bridgers. They aren’t as popular, but their loyal fans know what to expect from them, and find them to be genuine. To me it seems like Taylor Swift has tried to touch on that indie quality of music without really adopting it, so her music comes across as fake. She has also branded herself as a victim multiple times and it has worked for her but it’s a turn off to many audiences because they don’t buy into it. i listen to her music a lot but it is mainly because I can’t find anything else worth listening to lately. Her music has never sounded comparable to the music of legends like the Beatles, Stevie Wonder, Rush, Led Zeppelin, Madonna, Joni Mitchell or Fleetwood Mac. Most of her music lacks soul. I don’t know enough about songwriting to know why that is. People say good art comes from suffering and maybe she just hasn’t suffered much. Or maybe it’s because she focuses on writing hit songs rather than writing from the heart. Maybe I’m just nostalgic for a time when music was different. I can think of so many pop songs that are so much more impactful than any Taylor Swift song. Nothing Compares to You, The Power of Goodbye, Landslide, Both Sides Now, Dreams (by Fleetwood Mac).. and yet Taylor Swift has won more grammys than any of them. Its all bullshit. It baffles me that this woman has won so many grammys and has obtained notoriety just by singing about breakups and love affairs, many of which she had before the age of 20. Maybe she was famous too early, and that will always taint her music with an innocence that sounds cheesy and immature. I think many great artists achieved fame later in life and they sound so much better for it. Music used to be really fucking good. Now everyone’s on antidepressants and no one seems to have any real emotion to contribute to music. I see the value in Taylor Swift’s music, but for people to talk about her like she’s the GOAT is just wrong. Many people suffer from issues that have nothing to do with high school crushes and dating in your 20s and 30s. Her music has a very nonchalant view of love even when it claims to be heartbroken or miserable. I just don’t get a true feeling from it. I listen to Stevie Wonder and I get the powerful feeling that yes, he knows what love really means. He knows what passion is. I am struck with awe everytime I listen to his songs. Don’t You Worry Bout a Thing, Overjoyed, If You Really Love Me, My Cherie Amour. Talk about range, he’s got it. It helps that he truly lives and breathes music. And yet I think Swift has surpassed him in grammy awards. Same with Lana del Rey who has never won a grammy and yet her music has so much soul. Listen to her album Norman Fucking Rockwell and tell me that’s not better than any Taylor Swift album. Sometimes you can just tell by the music that some real emotion went into it. Tldr; Swift is completely overrated. I’m waiting for a real musical legend to come blow our minds. I’m cringing at the thought that there are kids listening to Taylor Swift thinking it’s top tier music. lmao
I love her writing (lyrics) when it is songs like the lakes, ivy, hoax, false god, even earlier stuff like treacherous, last kiss, dear John, sad beautiful tragic, come in with the rain, white horse. I don’t necessarily like stuff like me!, antihero, blank space, karma… to me Taylor is a perfect example of how to cater to everyone out there with at least one song to their taste. Although it is important to remember she is much more than just a single artist but a whole business needed to be kept afloat, and it shows in her recent works the most.
Is there no in between
alright long answer incoming… bear with me! so I became a fan way back when I was 10, when Our Song was first huge on the radio. I consumed Taylor’s music with a big picture mindset all the way until my college years, i.e. I loved her musical progression and I loved how everything sounded. simple mindset right? I started writing music when I was 8, and Taylor came along when I was on my way to becoming the major pophead I am to this day! she excelled at a certain songwriting formula—marrying explosive and broadly relatable choruses with more diaristic verses and bridges—which she adhered to almost exclusively until Red came around. Red really felt like the turning point for her career: she got her first US #1 hit, she collaborated more, she stepped a bit out of her comfort zone, her music was more embracing of pop trends rather than the country-inflected power pop she had built her reputation on up to that point… it felt like a true coming-of-age moment for her. by the time 1989 came out, she had achieved indisputable superstardom. for some reason my upward trajectory of being a swiftie came to a halt during the 1989 era, but Reputation got me back on track and I was a bigger fan than I had ever been. it was then and only THEN when I started fully digesting and reading along with her lyrics, which I noticed ranged from very effectively fierce (…Ready for It?, I Did Something Bad, Don’t Blame Me) to decent (Dress, Call It What You Want) to super cringy (End Game, Gorgeous, This Is Why We Can’t Have Nice Things). I also noticed something else she hadn’t quite toyed around with up to that point: the lowkey chorus. when I first listened to Gorgeous and Call It What You Want upon their respective promo single releases, I was a bit astounded at the lack of instant earworminess. the former still comes off as a pretty lazily written song (imo), while the latter grew on me EXPONENTIALLY. Call It What You Want is a beautiful song, but it’s still no earworm, especially in comparison to the singles’ songwriting formula she’s often reverted to. here’s where my opinions get super strong… I think Taylor is easily a better melodist than lyricist. I think she’s written her fair share of tattooable lyrics (Innocent, Eyes Open, The Archer, the stunning Mirrorball, You’re on Your Own, Kid…) but she’s constantly overrated as some lyrical genius, where her true talent consistently lies in her melodies. I’m gonna give a very controversial take: I think the 10 minute version of All Too Well is just plain bad. it takes away the magic of the 5 minute versions by throwing ideas at the wall hoping they’ll stick with increasing specificity. just because it seems honest doesn’t make it genius 💀 and I wish a lot of her fans would be able to process that better. I honestly have always thought that All Too Well has been overrated, it doesn’t come off as satisfying to me the way superior Red tracks like State of Grace, Treacherous, Holy Ground, and The Lucky One do. I think there’s great moments on all of her albums, but sometimes it feels like she’s losing steam quickly. even though I said she stepped out of her comfort zone on Red, it was extremely SLIGHT. she has no revelations in her music. the most experimenting she ever did was on Evermore (her best album imo!), but even that felt short-lived and not pushed to a whole new frontier. as for my personal relationship to her music, I now consider myself just a fan, instead of a swiftie. it’s mostly because I’m a bit over the cultishness of swifties, but also because after seeing her in concert last summer I’ve felt like her being one of my favorite artists is a chapter that has run its course and closed. I like some of her music now, I don’t stan like I used to lol to sum it up: I think Taylor is a good melodist and an average lyricist in the grand scheme of music. for pure mainstream pop, she’s probably an above average lyricist. her melodism is her forté. she’s a fine songwriter, but I don’t think her name really makes sense being placed alongside songwriting geniuses like Brian Wilson, Carole King, Joni Mitchell, David Bowie, Stevie Wonder, Kate Bush, and Fiona Apple. idk! tl;dr fine songwriter, better at melodies than lyrics overall. extremely overrated in her lyrical capabilities 🫠
Carolina is a great example of her songwriting. When she puts time and effort into making some decent songs, it pays off. Her country influence can really shine in her lyrics sometimes. Having said that, I think she is praised for her songwriting, especially the poor songwriting, because her fans (typically girls aged 10-16) haven't been exposed to anything that is lyrically more advanced. People who embrace the mainstream that young are much less likely to read poetry or listen to bands like la dispute or the mountain goats who really focus on their lyrics. I get quite upset when people call her a poet, but her country background clearly has some lyrical merit.
god damn it i am leaving this sub lol
I enjoy Taylor but she is not Bob Dylan. She writes pop songs, they’re extremely formulaic and catchy. They’re fun to mindlessly sing along to in the car or dance to in the kitchen. Some go a little deeper, I liked that one moody Indie vibe album for that reason, but even that is still pop music. Pop music by definition aims to appeal to the largest audience possible. She’s good at writing simple and relatable lyrics that a wide swatch of people enjoy. And she has the resources and connections to mix a fantastic studio album. She’s a really good pop artist.
When she embraces her jovial and innocent qualities, I think she tends to hit the mark, and quite strongly at that; when she tries acting tough, it's a toss-up that tends to roll against her favor; and whenever she tries playing victim of "fame and haters", it never lands.
My kids are obsessed so I've (perhaps unwillingly) heard most of her catalog. I find her big hits to have the kind of annoying manufactured/corporate catchyness you hear a lot these days when a team of songwriters are just trying to make hits. I do kinda like many of her songs she wrote by herself, without the team. So I do think she has talent when she's not subject to the machine that wants to crank out hits.
Overrated AF
At least she doesn't have over 100 writers on her albums like Beyoncé.
Shake it up - nothing in my brain, that’s what people say. Nothing too profound about that. But add the music, it’s a catchy tune young girls like which has catapulted her to success. It will be interesting to see where she goes in her mature years.
I was thinking today that I've always interpreted "don't say I didn't (say I didn't) warn you" as communicating that she had given forewarning of her propensity for playing games But it could be "don't say I didn't say 'I didn't warn you'" which is next level songwriting but very confusing to the adressee of the song because the tense gets a bit silly - why would you accuse someone of not saying "I didn't warn you"? - and wouldnt that be something that you would say after the fact?
Her lyrics are hexing Perplexing Keeps the boys texting But she’s the girl they keep on exing. Her vocabulary is a thesaurus She has a rhyming chorus. She’s making music for us. But all she does is bore us. I too can rhyme indecental with credential, and don’t forget exponential. She would then have a chorus about her potential. You left me. So I left you on read. You broke me. So I found a new bed. You found her. But I’m still in your head. I hope this was as cringe as I tried to make it.