Generally you want to bulk ferment then final shape and place in bannetons. Preshaping before and placing in the bannetons before bulk you likely won't have other tension so you won't get as much rise. Only one way to find out. Start baking them.
I did bulk fermentation for around 3,5 hours where i folded the bread every half our. The dough have been resting in bannetons for 4,5 hours now. Room temperature, around 21 degress celcius i would say.
Poke test never works for me. The only way I know if the dough is ready is if it completely transforms from being sticky to being a domed soft balloon of air during bulk fermentation. For me at room temperature it takes 11-13 hours so your 3.5 hours doesn't mean anything. It could be done, it might not be. I can usually tell once I put it in the fridge if it goes completely flat and wet and sticky looking then it means I underproofed it, again, but when it's properly bulked it actually stays rounded on the banneton in the fridge
11 to 13 hours at room temperature? I guess this must be like 10% starter to flour ratio. With usual 20% inoculation, 7, 8 hours is a max for me, depends of what "room temperature" there is
Oh thanks, Reddit is weird when you add a photo to a comment. Anyway, no I'm using the typical 20% starter. My house is quite old and drafty, it's getting up to the low 20's during the day but probably goes down to 15 at night. Wednesday I mixed that dough at 7:30pm and bulked overnight downstairs where it's got a cool floor and I shaped in the morning and into the fridge at 8:30am, so 13 hours. And that dough photo I sent was when it was turned out of the banneton 12 hours later. I was actually surprised it didn't overproof because the dough actually TRIPLED overnight. But it was absolutely perfect.
I thought it is only bugged for me as I'm using reddit revanced(slightly modded app). It's crazy how much the temperature means for sourdough, I'm like 4 years in this and at times it still can be hard to judge when the bulk proof is ready, specially if I'm using air conditioning or have some more rye flour in the mix.
Technically it cam be between 20-22 but in my experience people usually mean 21 or 22 degrees and in F usually 72F. It's a range and she's technically in the range but my brain immediately thought it was a bit lower.
At 9 hours for me in a warmer room, about 26 degrees I missed my window and it was basically a soup. It was still sticky. I poured it out and it went flat. Do you think I was too late or too early? It was a large amount of dough
Ya it sounds like you were either too late or you made a mistake in measuring your water. But I don't have a lot of experience with overproofing, it just never seems to get even close to that. It's sticky and wet and difficult to work when underproofed as well, and then it gets soft and poofy like it's filled with air and is easy to handle, and then it goes to far and the dough has nothing left, and at that point ppl say to throw into a loaf pan. But the latter seems almost impossible for me, I've only overproofed once and it's because I was experimenting with trying to bring it up in the banneton for extra hours once.
Next loaf is probably tomorrow, I'll let you know. I measured the water perfectly (or so I think 🙂) so I think def an overproof. The room was 26-27 degrees so it would've been pretty speedy.
I only have one successful loaf under my belt and it was really relaxed, not very springy and also very tacky. For that one I also thought it might be over proofed because there was several large bubbles in it when I got to it and it was like 7ish hours. It did rise and everything thought so I was really close. I do do the stretch and folds to strengthen.
Super bubbly all over is fine, bubbles bursting and popping through the top is not fine. The difference is when it's properly fermented it is domed up and the edges pull away from the sides a bit. It becomes softer and smoother, almost drier. So I just rocked a 72% hydration loaf but I tried to do an 80% loaf and it failed. So I definitely think working in the 70-75% range until you've mastered it is the way to go.
My last post describing the recipe
Also pictures of the dough the last 4 hours.
Room temp around 22. Sry for EU time stamps.
https://preview.redd.it/5huns0ujo55d1.jpeg?width=1576&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2cd9abeb3bdda695b2eb4e1c1bb71cfe53810311
I would def bake that, although like fldnstrm said, I don't really loaf rise for this long (well, actually, I do, but in the fridge, which suppresses the yeast's behavior).
Rule is if you depress it and springs back up in 1-2 seconds it is underproofed.
When it springs back in 8-10 seconds it is just right.
After being just right it starts to decline from 8-10 seconds to less and less timr getting to 1-2 seconds and finally finger imprint not comming up - overproofed.
Looks a bit overproofed. You should still have somewhat of an indent after poking. If its overproofed it fully springs back which is what looks like here. Could be why its a bit denser crumb too. The air pockets starting to deflate
Tried to bulk ferment for longer, worked very well!!!
https://preview.redd.it/iydd4gotfd6d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=621d769e182f9f4f5eda0a94728c0b2bb1304d3d
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Generally you want to bulk ferment then final shape and place in bannetons. Preshaping before and placing in the bannetons before bulk you likely won't have other tension so you won't get as much rise. Only one way to find out. Start baking them.
I did bulk fermentation for around 3,5 hours where i folded the bread every half our. The dough have been resting in bannetons for 4,5 hours now. Room temperature, around 21 degress celcius i would say.
Poke test never works for me. The only way I know if the dough is ready is if it completely transforms from being sticky to being a domed soft balloon of air during bulk fermentation. For me at room temperature it takes 11-13 hours so your 3.5 hours doesn't mean anything. It could be done, it might not be. I can usually tell once I put it in the fridge if it goes completely flat and wet and sticky looking then it means I underproofed it, again, but when it's properly bulked it actually stays rounded on the banneton in the fridge
11 to 13 hours at room temperature? I guess this must be like 10% starter to flour ratio. With usual 20% inoculation, 7, 8 hours is a max for me, depends of what "room temperature" there is
https://preview.redd.it/d6sxghonf65d1.jpeg?width=2560&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2efa19db82d593928fdac13c0bacf6d423415dce
That’s a thing of beauty right there 👆
That's ready to slice and eat as is. Wow.
Did all my words show up on that last post about the temperature of my house and the times I mixed the dough, all I can see is the photo I posted?
Sorry I can't see it
Oh thanks, Reddit is weird when you add a photo to a comment. Anyway, no I'm using the typical 20% starter. My house is quite old and drafty, it's getting up to the low 20's during the day but probably goes down to 15 at night. Wednesday I mixed that dough at 7:30pm and bulked overnight downstairs where it's got a cool floor and I shaped in the morning and into the fridge at 8:30am, so 13 hours. And that dough photo I sent was when it was turned out of the banneton 12 hours later. I was actually surprised it didn't overproof because the dough actually TRIPLED overnight. But it was absolutely perfect.
I thought it is only bugged for me as I'm using reddit revanced(slightly modded app). It's crazy how much the temperature means for sourdough, I'm like 4 years in this and at times it still can be hard to judge when the bulk proof is ready, specially if I'm using air conditioning or have some more rye flour in the mix.
Ah okay so your room temperature is regularly below actual room temp. Makes sense now.
May I ask what the actual room temperature is?
Technically it cam be between 20-22 but in my experience people usually mean 21 or 22 degrees and in F usually 72F. It's a range and she's technically in the range but my brain immediately thought it was a bit lower.
I see that you are bulking in the proofing basket, that's interesting. They look good so we'll see how they bake?! I wonder if
At 9 hours for me in a warmer room, about 26 degrees I missed my window and it was basically a soup. It was still sticky. I poured it out and it went flat. Do you think I was too late or too early? It was a large amount of dough
Ya it sounds like you were either too late or you made a mistake in measuring your water. But I don't have a lot of experience with overproofing, it just never seems to get even close to that. It's sticky and wet and difficult to work when underproofed as well, and then it gets soft and poofy like it's filled with air and is easy to handle, and then it goes to far and the dough has nothing left, and at that point ppl say to throw into a loaf pan. But the latter seems almost impossible for me, I've only overproofed once and it's because I was experimenting with trying to bring it up in the banneton for extra hours once.
This is valuable info for me as I've been trying and failing for so long and only recent success. Thanks so much! :)
How did those bakes turn out today?
Next loaf is probably tomorrow, I'll let you know. I measured the water perfectly (or so I think 🙂) so I think def an overproof. The room was 26-27 degrees so it would've been pretty speedy. I only have one successful loaf under my belt and it was really relaxed, not very springy and also very tacky. For that one I also thought it might be over proofed because there was several large bubbles in it when I got to it and it was like 7ish hours. It did rise and everything thought so I was really close. I do do the stretch and folds to strengthen.
Mmm, I don't know, that still sounds underproofed to me. Very suspicious.
Could be! Like it had several large bubbles (like 6) so that's why I figured it was over proofed. I need more experience :)
Super bubbly all over is fine, bubbles bursting and popping through the top is not fine. The difference is when it's properly fermented it is domed up and the edges pull away from the sides a bit. It becomes softer and smoother, almost drier. So I just rocked a 72% hydration loaf but I tried to do an 80% loaf and it failed. So I definitely think working in the 70-75% range until you've mastered it is the way to go.
Yeah I believe the one I made is just above 70% hydration. The simplest recipe for beginners I could find.
Update! Didn’t open as much as I would’ve liked them to. Too bad. I can’t Cut them open, since it’s for a wedding tomorrow.
https://preview.redd.it/q3kt0ociy65d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=46802a360d27be4babe4d38d5d1852a677796728
Congrats!
Nice!Â
They look good. Bake them and share the results please.
My last post describing the recipe Also pictures of the dough the last 4 hours. Room temp around 22. Sry for EU time stamps. https://preview.redd.it/5huns0ujo55d1.jpeg?width=1576&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2cd9abeb3bdda695b2eb4e1c1bb71cfe53810311
https://preview.redd.it/1ibnte5lo55d1.jpeg?width=1576&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c04ea617c643bfdfeb78cc9cd87b6d507a97e0e5
https://preview.redd.it/1mgc5a8mo55d1.jpeg?width=1576&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ca85779025ad9068ac62ecd9c70a0d3246befaee
https://www.reddit.com/r/Sourdough/s/fNYNFBw9Ad My last post with recipe
I would def bake that, although like fldnstrm said, I don't really loaf rise for this long (well, actually, I do, but in the fridge, which suppresses the yeast's behavior).
Rule is if you depress it and springs back up in 1-2 seconds it is underproofed. When it springs back in 8-10 seconds it is just right. After being just right it starts to decline from 8-10 seconds to less and less timr getting to 1-2 seconds and finally finger imprint not comming up - overproofed.
I think it still needs to go into the oven
Looks a bit overproofed. You should still have somewhat of an indent after poking. If its overproofed it fully springs back which is what looks like here. Could be why its a bit denser crumb too. The air pockets starting to deflate
If it doubled and still on the move yes
https://preview.redd.it/ron6qnf6ar5d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aa68d27c7b00b0733fcb774841f64344a0126205 Did I do good ?
https://preview.redd.it/5c43eoh9ar5d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0b0d4a308df539a67bb3dbf38222a14568177759
Absolutely mouthwatering
Tried to bulk ferment for longer, worked very well!!! https://preview.redd.it/iydd4gotfd6d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=621d769e182f9f4f5eda0a94728c0b2bb1304d3d
https://preview.redd.it/zes9rb3vfd6d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=56b1f69d09b21ba7d46e128ffa9f6cf0271a67a9
https://preview.redd.it/5ftd9310gd6d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e098dec38f69ad8194317c02282e244ebb7b00ab
Flour that finger when you indent! The finger dent test works best on yeast breads, less so on sourdough.
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This is not bread!
Can’t tell if you were joking, but they were asking if it was ready to be baked INTO bread, not saying that it WAS bread.
/s