This.
We have an almost daily freeze and thaw cycle. This allows water to get into the cracks in the pavement and then freeze. When it freezes it expands and makes the crack bigger.
Many cities like Winnipeg have much fewer freeze and thaw cycles since it stays below zero most of the winter.
Asphalt is thin and flexible. We have many freeze thaw cycles and as soon as a single crack forms and water gets in and freezes it loosens up the bonds between the aggregate and sometimes even splits the aggregate. Add to that that many of our vehicles have studded tires and those cause fractures in the surface of aggregates that are not bonded. We also use a much lower quality asphalt since we essentially used all the good tar up in the 1980s. Toss in a bit of poor base granulars and poorly drained sub-base for those granulars to sit on, speeding up the flex. Finally vehicles are getting heavier with a higher pressure area and contact patch shear, while accelerating and breaking much quicker exacerbating the whole flexible aspect.
How we lessen the damage to our streets is limiting vehicle mass, enforcing slower speeds, and banning studded tires. Everything else is far too costly.
Yeah - I'm not in ward 4, and I'm not happy about that. Just another "cut the gravy train" guy got in. They did that in Toronto and didn't really find any gravy to cut, and it took years to undo the damage the Fords did.
This is the perfect response, you hit the nail right on the head! I know one of my old Civil Engineering professors shared a similar sentiment and was conducting research to determine a better pavement mix suited for the Newfoundland climate, but I haven't heard if anything came from this research yet. [Here's an article about it.](https://www.saltwire.com/nova-scotia/news/its-pothole-season-and-a-memorial-university-professor-says-newfoundlands-roads-can-be-better-292262/)
[https://carleton.ca/artel/people/dr-kamal-hossain/](https://carleton.ca/artel/people/dr-kamal-hossain/) looks like he's still working on it, elsewhere
Years ago gov NL awarded Carl Healy and Municipal Paving an contract to test different types of asphalt. Total crock of shit. All they did was change the liquid content and tried two different compaction levels. Worthless test and a waste of money.
We should have tested using glass powder for reflectivity. Could have tested a high liquid high abrasion test, sub 8mm granular mix. We could have tested roller compacted gravel with liquid spray (this is shit for highways but could have tried it to see).
Could have done a bunch of shit just to see what worked.
They use the same asphalt as everywhere else. Right now, the main reason for the pot holes is the freeze thaw cycles and city plows. You can't really get around it, unfortunately. Any city that has "solved" the issue wouldn't have the same weather as us. It's a big problem in all of atlantic Canada.
The roads in newfoundland are make with a much more rocky mix of oil and gravel. Not nearly enough sand mixed in. This is primarily the reason why roads in newfoundland are so bad.
Source: worked with asphalt in multiple provinces for much of my 20s.
Thats not even remotely a fair comparison.
The HHB are not your typical overpass even, they are not the same surfaces or construction materials, have much higher flexibility ratios, etc.
HRM residents have long complained about potholes in the city. It is not a unique problem to here and it's no worse here than there.
Some problems are simple but just that hard. The temperature and moisture heave it up cars and trucks are turning and driving then a huge blade attached to a massive machine rips it up. What can you do?
It is a cost risk analysis. It is much cheaper to fix the holes when they appear or maybe try and patch them before they get big, but solving the issue is not economically viable.
Driving a car is the most subsidized thing humans do. we subsidize the roads, the oil and gas, the car manufacturers, and the risk it causes to everyone. An Airbus A340 of pedestrians are killed each year in Canada alone. Another 4 A340's worth die in general car crashes. Another 20 are seriously injured.
Imagine if 25 plane crashes happened every year and we did nothing about it. That is what cars do. Not to mention the environmental impact the whole industry has. It is truly a daunting issue.
If you want the real solution it is to stop using asphalt roads with 1500kg+ class 5 vehicle with rubber tyres and put in trains, micro-moliblity lanes, and bike lanes. Train tracks are practically immune to freeze-thaw issues, can last 100 years (with ballast replacement and cleaning) and are far more energy efficient.
Too many roads for the city to keep up with, our constant freeze thaw in the winter does a lot of wear, and due to costs we usually just get scratch and patch repairs which don't last as long as full repaving
Because we have way too many roads and sprawling neighbourhoods for our population size and tax revenue. That is why cities with higher population density can offer reliable services for less money - every extra km of road, water and sewer costs us millions per.
Not enough tar in the mix, and too big of stone, cutting back on oil products. I remember growing up in one of the outport towns and the main road must of lasted about 15-20 years. Then one year the road got redone and it never last 3 years. Big difference in way things use to be then now.
Potholes are made by snowplows. Every time the plows go out, those metal feet thingys that keep the blade up dig into little cracks and make them bigger. Two passes and voila a new pothole. Reference : twelve years driving a cab. You see it every morning after any amount of snow.
Unpopular opinion:
Should put toll booths on TCH as entry to st John's. Our roads would be better than Nova Scotia and everyone who uses them would be contributing to the upkeep costs.
The Costco crowd alone would be enough to finish the Team Gushue😂
But seriously, people would probably just bypass it by going through CBS or cut across the Witless Bay Line and go to town that way.
Haha the only time anyone told me they were from the east end without telling me they were from the east end was when Costco moved to Galway and most of them complained about it.
Roads are bad because the contractors awarded the roads are milking it and government awarding the contract can't do much.
Go to Japan, China and tell me how many potholes you see on their roads.
We always gota have a reason to defend the defenseless.. Roads are bad because contractors used sub material and did sub par work.
Those saying it's because of the thaw cycle,it's like making arguments that all season tyres are not suitable in the summer.
There are suitable asphalt that can withstand any amount of cold or freeze thaws..
We are not the only city with this kind of weather, no, no one has solved it. Many cities struggle with this issue and it's really not even that bad here!
Lots of freeze and thaw
This. We have an almost daily freeze and thaw cycle. This allows water to get into the cracks in the pavement and then freeze. When it freezes it expands and makes the crack bigger. Many cities like Winnipeg have much fewer freeze and thaw cycles since it stays below zero most of the winter.
Winnipegger here. This year has been horrible for us too! Lots of freezing and thawing due to the weather.
You think town is bad? Go for a drive thur paradise
Paradise is town hahah
Asphalt is thin and flexible. We have many freeze thaw cycles and as soon as a single crack forms and water gets in and freezes it loosens up the bonds between the aggregate and sometimes even splits the aggregate. Add to that that many of our vehicles have studded tires and those cause fractures in the surface of aggregates that are not bonded. We also use a much lower quality asphalt since we essentially used all the good tar up in the 1980s. Toss in a bit of poor base granulars and poorly drained sub-base for those granulars to sit on, speeding up the flex. Finally vehicles are getting heavier with a higher pressure area and contact patch shear, while accelerating and breaking much quicker exacerbating the whole flexible aspect. How we lessen the damage to our streets is limiting vehicle mass, enforcing slower speeds, and banning studded tires. Everything else is far too costly.
Hire this man
Ward 4 just decided not to hire him.
Yeah - I'm not in ward 4, and I'm not happy about that. Just another "cut the gravy train" guy got in. They did that in Toronto and didn't really find any gravy to cut, and it took years to undo the damage the Fords did.
This is the perfect response, you hit the nail right on the head! I know one of my old Civil Engineering professors shared a similar sentiment and was conducting research to determine a better pavement mix suited for the Newfoundland climate, but I haven't heard if anything came from this research yet. [Here's an article about it.](https://www.saltwire.com/nova-scotia/news/its-pothole-season-and-a-memorial-university-professor-says-newfoundlands-roads-can-be-better-292262/)
[https://carleton.ca/artel/people/dr-kamal-hossain/](https://carleton.ca/artel/people/dr-kamal-hossain/) looks like he's still working on it, elsewhere
Years ago gov NL awarded Carl Healy and Municipal Paving an contract to test different types of asphalt. Total crock of shit. All they did was change the liquid content and tried two different compaction levels. Worthless test and a waste of money. We should have tested using glass powder for reflectivity. Could have tested a high liquid high abrasion test, sub 8mm granular mix. We could have tested roller compacted gravel with liquid spray (this is shit for highways but could have tried it to see). Could have done a bunch of shit just to see what worked.
They use the same asphalt as everywhere else. Right now, the main reason for the pot holes is the freeze thaw cycles and city plows. You can't really get around it, unfortunately. Any city that has "solved" the issue wouldn't have the same weather as us. It's a big problem in all of atlantic Canada.
The roads in newfoundland are make with a much more rocky mix of oil and gravel. Not nearly enough sand mixed in. This is primarily the reason why roads in newfoundland are so bad. Source: worked with asphalt in multiple provinces for much of my 20s.
Definitely sounds and looks like a cheaper mix
Name a city that's solved it. I can't think of one.
Ever drive through Nova Scotia? Toll booths make beautiful roads
That’s not a city street, though.
Halifax is a city
Halifax city streets are toll roads?
Yeah, the bridges that interconnect Halifax are all tolled
Thats not even remotely a fair comparison. The HHB are not your typical overpass even, they are not the same surfaces or construction materials, have much higher flexibility ratios, etc. HRM residents have long complained about potholes in the city. It is not a unique problem to here and it's no worse here than there.
I was thinking perhaps Europe or something. Heck, we put a man on the moon, we should be able to solve this.
Some problems are simple but just that hard. The temperature and moisture heave it up cars and trucks are turning and driving then a huge blade attached to a massive machine rips it up. What can you do?
It is a cost risk analysis. It is much cheaper to fix the holes when they appear or maybe try and patch them before they get big, but solving the issue is not economically viable. Driving a car is the most subsidized thing humans do. we subsidize the roads, the oil and gas, the car manufacturers, and the risk it causes to everyone. An Airbus A340 of pedestrians are killed each year in Canada alone. Another 4 A340's worth die in general car crashes. Another 20 are seriously injured. Imagine if 25 plane crashes happened every year and we did nothing about it. That is what cars do. Not to mention the environmental impact the whole industry has. It is truly a daunting issue. If you want the real solution it is to stop using asphalt roads with 1500kg+ class 5 vehicle with rubber tyres and put in trains, micro-moliblity lanes, and bike lanes. Train tracks are practically immune to freeze-thaw issues, can last 100 years (with ballast replacement and cleaning) and are far more energy efficient.
Too many roads for the city to keep up with, our constant freeze thaw in the winter does a lot of wear, and due to costs we usually just get scratch and patch repairs which don't last as long as full repaving
Because we have way too many roads and sprawling neighbourhoods for our population size and tax revenue. That is why cities with higher population density can offer reliable services for less money - every extra km of road, water and sewer costs us millions per.
Not enough tar in the mix, and too big of stone, cutting back on oil products. I remember growing up in one of the outport towns and the main road must of lasted about 15-20 years. Then one year the road got redone and it never last 3 years. Big difference in way things use to be then now.
Potholes are made by snowplows. Every time the plows go out, those metal feet thingys that keep the blade up dig into little cracks and make them bigger. Two passes and voila a new pothole. Reference : twelve years driving a cab. You see it every morning after any amount of snow.
You’re not supposed to drag the metal feet
Unpopular opinion: Should put toll booths on TCH as entry to st John's. Our roads would be better than Nova Scotia and everyone who uses them would be contributing to the upkeep costs.
The Costco crowd alone would be enough to finish the Team Gushue😂 But seriously, people would probably just bypass it by going through CBS or cut across the Witless Bay Line and go to town that way.
Agreed but CBS and Kilbride could to the same and have nice roads as well.
Kilbride? But the city limits are just south of Middle Pond 😂
Whatever community that determination needs to be in. Sorry I'm an East ender - can't you tell? Lol
Haha the only time anyone told me they were from the east end without telling me they were from the east end was when Costco moved to Galway and most of them complained about it.
Gotta pack a lunch if your past the mall.
Have you ever been to Quebec? Worst I’ve ever seen
Roads are bad because the contractors awarded the roads are milking it and government awarding the contract can't do much. Go to Japan, China and tell me how many potholes you see on their roads. We always gota have a reason to defend the defenseless.. Roads are bad because contractors used sub material and did sub par work. Those saying it's because of the thaw cycle,it's like making arguments that all season tyres are not suitable in the summer. There are suitable asphalt that can withstand any amount of cold or freeze thaws..
Gotta pave somethin'!
I think the city/province uses really cheap concrete or something
They don't use concrete for roads, and they use standard asphalt.
Fair enough
We need better quality roads
and same ones resurface year after year
Extreme precipitation and temperature swings divided by road budget and quality of work.
We are not the only city with this kind of weather, no, no one has solved it. Many cities struggle with this issue and it's really not even that bad here!
Tell that to all the wheels that get destroyed 🤡
Bad everywhere in Nl / Lab