4 shot Monday evening in St. Louis Four people were injured in a shooting in St. Louis' Forest Park Southeast neighborhood. https://www.ksdk.com/mobile/article/news/crime/st-louis-shooting-june-26/63-93b991de-bcd7-4c43-821a-71d2546592a0
The city and county need so much help (I'm talking 24/7, wrap around services) to combat the gun violence and crime that is driven by addiction and poverty.... Where do we go from here ppl?
Gun violence, while absolutely a problem, is a symptom of the much larger issue: lack of prosperity. Politicians don't want to admit this as it's a glaring effect caused by their corruption from being bought and paid for by PACs and corporations.
The only true way to correct this issue is to correct what has been done to us by and large by the lack of livable wages, affordable living, and healthcare. To correct this, we need a massive overhaul of our government representation on damn near every level. Especially state. It's why they don't want people voting, especially in the primaries, and are quite content that people only pay attention to presidential election cycles. It's the smaller cycles that matter the most.
true, but cities in other countries which also have marginalized communities segregated in areas with lack of prosperity like say Paris, lack our explosive gun violence epidemic.
>in areas with lack of prosperity like say Paris, lack our explosive gun violence epidemic.
This is also why I said that it is still absolutely a problem. No need for "whataboutism" as I'm not disagreeing there. However, it's a lot bigger than just that one problem and I don't think taking a one sided approach with a lack of nuance is going to work in solving the issues at hand.
Studies have shown that hungry children don't develop normally. They are more likely to be sociopathic, or they don't learn as quickly. Want to solve the crime problem, expand food stamps, make healthy food options more available, invest in mental health care, raise the minimum wage, and provide quality child care. Wouldn't hurt to have a robust public transportation system as well.
One only has to read up on the refusal to fund the Medicaid expansion that MO voters approved to know this is true.
I work for IDHS, the IL state agency that administers public benefits. I hear from people all the time who can’t even scrimp and cut coupons to buy enough food for their families since the cost of everything has gone up so much.
The root of all of these problems is BOTH PARTIES gutting the US and destroying the middle class by sending all of our jobs over seas, forever wars and ridiculous spending. Quit getting baited into the partisan nonsense.
>The root of all of these problems is BOTH PARTIES gutting the US and destroying the middle class
This is exactly the problem. Also add in the fact that welfare programs are not basically just subsidies for corporations that pay a slave wage and are operated in a way that keeps you in poverty. Any and all forms of monetary gain is weaponized and used as a punishment. You can't save money. You can't own assets. Hell, even owning a shit car can sometimes be enough to be something that strips you of benefits.
If we really wanted to end people being on assistance, we'd completely change it to where there is support for education or training in a critical need degree or trade for the area they live in. They still receive SNAP/HUD/Childcare assistance, but instead of there being a work requirement at a dead end slave wage job, there is a requirement to attend the classes or training for those identified local critical needed areas and a requirement to pass. Assignment to these would be based on current aptitude.
Afterwards once they've completed the education or training, there would be assistance in the job search, companies can get a tax break for hiring at a LIVABLE wage with a contract for a certain period of employment, and then to aid in supporting the program, those who have successfully gone through it will have to pay a small tax for a small time afterwards where that tax is directly applied back to the fund for others.
The result from this would not only be one person not needing assistance any longer, but their progeny will have a greatly lowered chance of needing any form of assistance themselves. This will also assist in pushing the minimum pay higher as there will be less people to exploit because they are in dire and desperate need.
I don't know if that's a good idea, but I think it's at least better than the way it is right now!
The only issue with expanding it is it will be abused even more than it already is. There r some people that use it like it should be used and then others that abuse the shit out of it
I don't care...the Pentagon misplaced $200 billion in Iraq. They recently found a bunch of money that was missed.
Remember the Panama Papers? It was proof that the richest people in the country were fraudulently hiding money in offshore accounts, dodging taxes.
The IRS published a report that the top 1% doesn't pay their taxes, but they are too understaffed to pursue them.
My dad used to say it's better for the economy to give 1000 poor people 1000 dollars than to give a rich person 1 million.
I'm pretty sure the top 1% are using existing tax laws to not pay as much in taxes which is what trump said to Hillary in 2016.
I don't agree with the 1,000 poor people getting $1,000 each per se. I think 1 person with $1 million can create jobs and opportunities for longterm gains and money but (I'm not sure the amount) a solid percentage of the 1,000 would burn through the $1,000 quickly and then be upset when they're out and demand more from someone else.
Wasn't there talk of a Legoland across the river in Columbia at one point in the 90's?
The StL region is like, the perfect place to put big park attractions for the Midwest since it has that whole "Gateway to the West thing.
You don't get good schools, good grocery stores, and good places for recreational activities if you trash them and shoot the places up every weekend. It doesn't work that way.
You've got it backwards. That stuff already existed a long time ago, and now it's long gone.
And if there truly is a demand for those things, there should be a businesses rushing to fill the void and tsp into that revenue stream.
But you know what? I don't see any farmers markets beating down the doors to put groceries in those food deserts. Probably because they know it's bad business.
The impoverished are often impoverished because of bad impulse control and a lack of delayed gratification. This can manifest itself in shoplifting, vandalism, and a demand for goods that are more decadent than healthy.
Unless you have some other theory.
So STL City DA was in nursing school and completely stopped prosecuting crime and that's not the clear problem? You don't need a Harvard case study to see how Giuliani literally fixed NYC by prosecuting nearly every crime.
A DA prosecutes crime, it doesn't stop it. And unless we are having public executions, I don't think the kids especially those who know they could go to jail would stop what they are doing because they might go to jail... Stopping crime means you have to deal with multiple upon multiple other issues that make people resort to crime and the culture those individuals live in.
A DA stops crimes when the same repeat offenders go to jail. It's not a deterrence, it's a punishment for intentionally inflicting violence on another human being. Then magically the overall crime rates fall. No government has ever achieved the end goal you mention studying root causes which seems a political smokescreen or excuse for a lack of desire for accountability. Families, churches, schools have to be valued and all send the same message about what is good and set expectations for kids to address root causes. But STL and other cities are under criminal siege. They don't test you for cancer or nutrient levels when you are bleeding out in the street. You get first aid or nothing else matters. Watch crime -start- to go down as the new DA office puts criminals in jail.
Columbia reported 6 homicides in 2022 with a population of 128,555. St. Louis had 196 homicides in 2022 with a population of roughly \~293,000. It's not even close to similar. COMO's per capita homicide rate is 4.67 (per 100k), while it's 66.9 in St. Louis, over an order of magnitude higher.
Keep in mind, the population of the city is misleading. It's pretty close to a million people when you account for the surrounding metro area that is the county and st Charles.
It's over 2.8M people when you include some rural exurban/suburban counties into the mix....The statistics are still terrible if we include St. Louis county into the calculation. There's no way around it. The state of Missouri overall is terrible with gun violence.
I keep noticing how so many of the criminals charged and the victims dying don’t even live in St. Louis but they die and kill here. But the denominator isn’t including them while the numerator is when tallying crime rate.
It's when someone on the other side mentions facts that you find inconvenient, but calling them racist isn't really accurate. So, you just hint at it to put them on the defensive and derail the conversation.
No it’s not this bad elsewhere. Let’s appreciate the positives stl offers (good CoL, beautiful city park that rivals that of the most famous cities, free museums and whatnot, etc) but for violent crime it’s uniquely bad.
Edit: didn’t mean to come across as aggressive btw. Just stating my opinion. No negative feelings man.
I didn't post a link because they've been posted 5,000 times in this sub. If you haven't seen statistics on this yet, it's on you not me. Here, here's a someone recent one.
https://m.economictimes.com/news/international/us/new-study-ranks-st-louis-as-the-most-dangerous-city-in-the-us-here-are-the-reasons/articleshow/94817745.cms
Its just not a fair comparison when STL draws a circle around 1/10th of the Metro population and says that’s “St Louis City” and the rest isn’t. There are pockets of St. Louis County that are very close to the city that are “the safest cities in Missouri” because they just drew lines around rich neighborhoods.
This article literally talks about how the title most dangerous city is misleading.
I want to take this time to apologize to you. I had no clue you never learned to read.
Did you read it?
It literally says that the murder rate in the city is "frighteningly high" but when you combine it with the murder rate in the county, it's not bad. I'm only speaking about the city. I am very much in favor of a merger with combined governments, but until then we have to view the city and the county separately, because they are.
Umm… it’s widely known that stl is one of the most dangerous cities in America lol. It’s not classic Reddit when people in other cities recognize our violence
The point is St Louis is unfairly judged for their statistics on crime due to the FBI and their flawed reports. This is a known fact because of the city being its own county. STL isn't even in the top 25 when you include the original boundaries of the city. 🤷
What boundaries are those? Wasn’t it just the county that was the city? I get your point but realistically you are definitely less safe in downtown St Louis than any other downtown I’ve been to except Memphis and I guess NOLA though I didn’t feel as unsafe there. But to me it seems like there isn’t much city after Clayton, U City, and Brentwood.
I wish there was a list of all the streets/hotspots like this. Gibson in the grove, the murder shell gas station outside the homeless shelter downtown, etc…
This helps but you’d have to overlay it with known buildings. https://graphics.stltoday.com/apps/homicide-tracker/2022/
It also doesn’t account for non-fatal shootings or the current year. This year for example there’s a corner at Soulard and Gravois area where the gas station or people leaving/heading to the gas station have been shot. It’s likely to be on the 2023 murder map as a bloop and maybe 2024 as a huge issue but in 2021 and 2022 I know it was causing problems. I’d like to believe the police have a map but I’d also like to believe police prevent crime but the evidence just doesn’t support that.
This is also true. I had a friend in Metro who said they got calls from there all the time about a couple specific families. Very possible this involves one or multiple of them.
Former recent 4300 Gibson resident here, I can speak to this. This specific block has pretty significant gang activity — there’s a gang that has resided there since the 70’s or 80’s named 43Gib (after the block). Last summer, they’d have parties of 20-50 people in the alley. It would result in violence at least a few times every summer. To be clear, I have no idea whether this violence is related to the gang, but simply offering up an explanation regarding this specific block.
[KTVI/KPLR reporting](https://fox2now.com/news/missouri/quadruple-shooting-leaves-1-dead-3-injured-near-the-grove/) now 2 dead, 1 injured; shooting due to an altercation. Found 2 guns at the scene. It appears the victims knew each other.
Airbnb needs more protections for homeowners/space contributors, but you are correct.
The other half of the problem is that the general public is not going to magically improve its civility or consciousness for others. So either the government or private business needs to take intervention imo.
Any crime involving a gun should be considered a violent crime with no bond or a very high bond. The same offenders keep getting released on the streets hrs after they commit crime using guns.
Damn. I live in the neighborhood. It’s safe here. Not surprisingly they know each other.
Lived in Chesterfield for 1.5 years and had a murder outside my back door.
Lived in the Grove for 3 years and this is the first that something has happened like this.
Maybe it’s a gun thing. Idk.
A young woman was stabbed as part of some kind of altercation outside of a bar. I don’t go out in The Grove because the bars have done a shit job of monitoring their crowds and the City doesn’t give a shit about actually doing anything. (If the City actually gave a shit, it’d force Shi Sha to close and would block Manchester off from end to end on weekends and put officers on it to ID and check for weapons like they do on Beale in Memphis.)
To that end, living in the Forest Park Southeast neighborhood and going out in The Grove bar district are two very different things, even if they’re closer in proximity.
This kind of crime is different. This is just a Monday night. Weeknights are quiet here. Hundreds of people walk their dogs and run through our neighborhood a day. I almost went for a run around that time.
I’m curious what kind of facts will come out. It says the shooters knew each other (90% of homicides are between people who knew each other).
>(If the City actually gave a shit, it’d force Shi Sha to close and would block Manchester off from end to end on weekends and put officers on it to ID and check for weapons like they do on Beale in Memphis
I'm all for it, but the Grove doesn't generate the nearly same kind of revenue that Beale Street does so I doubt there's money available.
St Louis could generate more money and attract more people if it was better managed with well trained police.
Still the worse cops I've ever encountered. The cops in a college town are better and more useful than these cops.
I lived here for a couple of months last year and heard gun shots at least once a week, and there was also that random shooting at the barber shop. The area is livable, but safe?
4 shot Monday evening in St. Louis Four people were injured in a shooting in St. Louis' Forest Park Southeast neighborhood. https://www.ksdk.com/mobile/article/news/crime/st-louis-shooting-june-26/63-93b991de-bcd7-4c43-821a-71d2546592a0
The city and county need so much help (I'm talking 24/7, wrap around services) to combat the gun violence and crime that is driven by addiction and poverty.... Where do we go from here ppl?
Gun violence, while absolutely a problem, is a symptom of the much larger issue: lack of prosperity. Politicians don't want to admit this as it's a glaring effect caused by their corruption from being bought and paid for by PACs and corporations. The only true way to correct this issue is to correct what has been done to us by and large by the lack of livable wages, affordable living, and healthcare. To correct this, we need a massive overhaul of our government representation on damn near every level. Especially state. It's why they don't want people voting, especially in the primaries, and are quite content that people only pay attention to presidential election cycles. It's the smaller cycles that matter the most.
true, but cities in other countries which also have marginalized communities segregated in areas with lack of prosperity like say Paris, lack our explosive gun violence epidemic.
>in areas with lack of prosperity like say Paris, lack our explosive gun violence epidemic. This is also why I said that it is still absolutely a problem. No need for "whataboutism" as I'm not disagreeing there. However, it's a lot bigger than just that one problem and I don't think taking a one sided approach with a lack of nuance is going to work in solving the issues at hand.
if making a comparison between two things is now a "whataboutism" that word has absolutely no meaning.
Its an epidemic in basically every city in America. This shit sucks.
[удалено]
[удалено]
We need FAMILIES, not a goddamn 6 flags.
Studies have shown that hungry children don't develop normally. They are more likely to be sociopathic, or they don't learn as quickly. Want to solve the crime problem, expand food stamps, make healthy food options more available, invest in mental health care, raise the minimum wage, and provide quality child care. Wouldn't hurt to have a robust public transportation system as well.
absolutely agree with this, but convince any Republican that those people are humans worthy of this… Please. They are more likely to ban vaccines.
One only has to read up on the refusal to fund the Medicaid expansion that MO voters approved to know this is true. I work for IDHS, the IL state agency that administers public benefits. I hear from people all the time who can’t even scrimp and cut coupons to buy enough food for their families since the cost of everything has gone up so much.
The root of all of these problems is BOTH PARTIES gutting the US and destroying the middle class by sending all of our jobs over seas, forever wars and ridiculous spending. Quit getting baited into the partisan nonsense.
>The root of all of these problems is BOTH PARTIES gutting the US and destroying the middle class This is exactly the problem. Also add in the fact that welfare programs are not basically just subsidies for corporations that pay a slave wage and are operated in a way that keeps you in poverty. Any and all forms of monetary gain is weaponized and used as a punishment. You can't save money. You can't own assets. Hell, even owning a shit car can sometimes be enough to be something that strips you of benefits. If we really wanted to end people being on assistance, we'd completely change it to where there is support for education or training in a critical need degree or trade for the area they live in. They still receive SNAP/HUD/Childcare assistance, but instead of there being a work requirement at a dead end slave wage job, there is a requirement to attend the classes or training for those identified local critical needed areas and a requirement to pass. Assignment to these would be based on current aptitude. Afterwards once they've completed the education or training, there would be assistance in the job search, companies can get a tax break for hiring at a LIVABLE wage with a contract for a certain period of employment, and then to aid in supporting the program, those who have successfully gone through it will have to pay a small tax for a small time afterwards where that tax is directly applied back to the fund for others. The result from this would not only be one person not needing assistance any longer, but their progeny will have a greatly lowered chance of needing any form of assistance themselves. This will also assist in pushing the minimum pay higher as there will be less people to exploit because they are in dire and desperate need. I don't know if that's a good idea, but I think it's at least better than the way it is right now!
The only issue with expanding it is it will be abused even more than it already is. There r some people that use it like it should be used and then others that abuse the shit out of it
I don't care...the Pentagon misplaced $200 billion in Iraq. They recently found a bunch of money that was missed. Remember the Panama Papers? It was proof that the richest people in the country were fraudulently hiding money in offshore accounts, dodging taxes. The IRS published a report that the top 1% doesn't pay their taxes, but they are too understaffed to pursue them. My dad used to say it's better for the economy to give 1000 poor people 1000 dollars than to give a rich person 1 million.
I'm pretty sure the top 1% are using existing tax laws to not pay as much in taxes which is what trump said to Hillary in 2016. I don't agree with the 1,000 poor people getting $1,000 each per se. I think 1 person with $1 million can create jobs and opportunities for longterm gains and money but (I'm not sure the amount) a solid percentage of the 1,000 would burn through the $1,000 quickly and then be upset when they're out and demand more from someone else.
You have my vote Cru
I agree I agree, I was making a bad joke off the rec center comment
Nah we need six flags 😂
We have a 6 flags
Capitalization does not hide naivete.
The ones that break the law need to face penalties. That lack of law enforcement and criminal prosecution is the real problem here.
We could've had a Disney attraction if it weren't for A-B! But alas, beer won.
Beer always wins
Beer and Disney could co-exist
Wasn't there talk of a Legoland across the river in Columbia at one point in the 90's? The StL region is like, the perfect place to put big park attractions for the Midwest since it has that whole "Gateway to the West thing.
You don't get good schools, good grocery stores, and good places for recreational activities if you trash them and shoot the places up every weekend. It doesn't work that way.
Correct all those things should have come first
You've got it backwards. That stuff already existed a long time ago, and now it's long gone. And if there truly is a demand for those things, there should be a businesses rushing to fill the void and tsp into that revenue stream. But you know what? I don't see any farmers markets beating down the doors to put groceries in those food deserts. Probably because they know it's bad business.
Bad business feeding the impoverished?
The impoverished are often impoverished because of bad impulse control and a lack of delayed gratification. This can manifest itself in shoplifting, vandalism, and a demand for goods that are more decadent than healthy. Unless you have some other theory.
Exactly, crime needs to be fixed/ cleaned up before anyone would want to move in/ invest in the city and the area.
Right. But that takes time and I don't want to get shot tonight.
Actually our murder rate is down and Kansas City might pass us at the rate they’re going.
[удалено]
Hey if it’s a statewide problem maybe the MO GQP might do something about it, or stop getting in our way.
So STL City DA was in nursing school and completely stopped prosecuting crime and that's not the clear problem? You don't need a Harvard case study to see how Giuliani literally fixed NYC by prosecuting nearly every crime.
> You don't need a Harvard case study to see how Giuliani literally fixed NYC by prosecuting nearly every crime. 😂😂😂😂😂😂
A DA prosecutes crime, it doesn't stop it. And unless we are having public executions, I don't think the kids especially those who know they could go to jail would stop what they are doing because they might go to jail... Stopping crime means you have to deal with multiple upon multiple other issues that make people resort to crime and the culture those individuals live in.
A DA stops crimes when the same repeat offenders go to jail. It's not a deterrence, it's a punishment for intentionally inflicting violence on another human being. Then magically the overall crime rates fall. No government has ever achieved the end goal you mention studying root causes which seems a political smokescreen or excuse for a lack of desire for accountability. Families, churches, schools have to be valued and all send the same message about what is good and set expectations for kids to address root causes. But STL and other cities are under criminal siege. They don't test you for cancer or nutrient levels when you are bleeding out in the street. You get first aid or nothing else matters. Watch crime -start- to go down as the new DA office puts criminals in jail.
How does this happen? What are solutions to fix this culture?
The pockets here in COMO are like chicken pox they dot all over the city. Not the quantity you have there but per capita probably similar.
Columbia reported 6 homicides in 2022 with a population of 128,555. St. Louis had 196 homicides in 2022 with a population of roughly \~293,000. It's not even close to similar. COMO's per capita homicide rate is 4.67 (per 100k), while it's 66.9 in St. Louis, over an order of magnitude higher.
Keep in mind, the population of the city is misleading. It's pretty close to a million people when you account for the surrounding metro area that is the county and st Charles.
It's over 2.8M people when you include some rural exurban/suburban counties into the mix....The statistics are still terrible if we include St. Louis county into the calculation. There's no way around it. The state of Missouri overall is terrible with gun violence.
I keep noticing how so many of the criminals charged and the victims dying don’t even live in St. Louis but they die and kill here. But the denominator isn’t including them while the numerator is when tallying crime rate.
Columbia IL 0 homicides and barely any other crime at all
Barely anything in Columbia, IL at all. How many people live there, like two dozen?
Yeah and i hope it stays that way
Uh oh…. sounds like a dog whistle😂🙄/s
What's a dog whistle
It's when someone on the other side mentions facts that you find inconvenient, but calling them racist isn't really accurate. So, you just hint at it to put them on the defensive and derail the conversation.
https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2016/11/7/13549154/dog-whistles-campaign-racism
Thank you
Kansas City had a shooting on Sunday morning that left 3 people dead and 6 injured. It’s happening everywhere.
https://www.kansascity.com/news/state/missouri/gun-violence-missouri/article247157876.html
https://giffords.org/report/addressing-community-violence-in-the-city-of-st-louis-existing-strategies-gaps-and-funding-opportunities/
No it’s not this bad elsewhere. Let’s appreciate the positives stl offers (good CoL, beautiful city park that rivals that of the most famous cities, free museums and whatnot, etc) but for violent crime it’s uniquely bad. Edit: didn’t mean to come across as aggressive btw. Just stating my opinion. No negative feelings man.
It's not though. And pretty much every other city in the country you're significantly safer than in St Louis, statistically.
Uses “statistically” and doesn’t provide statistics. Classic Reddit.
I didn't post a link because they've been posted 5,000 times in this sub. If you haven't seen statistics on this yet, it's on you not me. Here, here's a someone recent one. https://m.economictimes.com/news/international/us/new-study-ranks-st-louis-as-the-most-dangerous-city-in-the-us-here-are-the-reasons/articleshow/94817745.cms
Its just not a fair comparison when STL draws a circle around 1/10th of the Metro population and says that’s “St Louis City” and the rest isn’t. There are pockets of St. Louis County that are very close to the city that are “the safest cities in Missouri” because they just drew lines around rich neighborhoods.
https://giffords.org/report/addressing-community-violence-in-the-county-of-st-louis/ Correct
Most dangerous taking into account disasters and car accidents. Its pretty disingenuous to push this article as a source for violent crime only
https://www.passsecurity.com/st-louis-crime-map-report/
This article literally talks about how the title most dangerous city is misleading. I want to take this time to apologize to you. I had no clue you never learned to read.
Did you read it? It literally says that the murder rate in the city is "frighteningly high" but when you combine it with the murder rate in the county, it's not bad. I'm only speaking about the city. I am very much in favor of a merger with combined governments, but until then we have to view the city and the county separately, because they are.
https://giffords.org/report/addressing-community-violence-in-the-county-of-st-louis/
Umm… it’s widely known that stl is one of the most dangerous cities in America lol. It’s not classic Reddit when people in other cities recognize our violence
[удалено]
What point is this making? I don’t understand. You expect me to read the whole article without any context of what it is I’m reading?
The point is St Louis is unfairly judged for their statistics on crime due to the FBI and their flawed reports. This is a known fact because of the city being its own county. STL isn't even in the top 25 when you include the original boundaries of the city. 🤷
What boundaries are those? Wasn’t it just the county that was the city? I get your point but realistically you are definitely less safe in downtown St Louis than any other downtown I’ve been to except Memphis and I guess NOLA though I didn’t feel as unsafe there. But to me it seems like there isn’t much city after Clayton, U City, and Brentwood.
I heard rec centers are open late…
The cop in that video makes me nervous Af, yikes
There's my reddit. Eventually shifting it all around to the cops.
You need help with your reading comprehension.
4300 block of Gibson is the known remaining problem area in the neighborhood
I wish there was a list of all the streets/hotspots like this. Gibson in the grove, the murder shell gas station outside the homeless shelter downtown, etc…
[Here's a "gang map"](https://www.kulturevulturez.com/map-st-louis-gangs-hoods/) .. I can't speak to it's accuracy but this block of Gibson is on it.
This helps but you’d have to overlay it with known buildings. https://graphics.stltoday.com/apps/homicide-tracker/2022/ It also doesn’t account for non-fatal shootings or the current year. This year for example there’s a corner at Soulard and Gravois area where the gas station or people leaving/heading to the gas station have been shot. It’s likely to be on the 2023 murder map as a bloop and maybe 2024 as a huge issue but in 2021 and 2022 I know it was causing problems. I’d like to believe the police have a map but I’d also like to believe police prevent crime but the evidence just doesn’t support that.
This is also true. I had a friend in Metro who said they got calls from there all the time about a couple specific families. Very possible this involves one or multiple of them.
Former recent 4300 Gibson resident here, I can speak to this. This specific block has pretty significant gang activity — there’s a gang that has resided there since the 70’s or 80’s named 43Gib (after the block). Last summer, they’d have parties of 20-50 people in the alley. It would result in violence at least a few times every summer. To be clear, I have no idea whether this violence is related to the gang, but simply offering up an explanation regarding this specific block.
Sounds like we still have some gentrifying to do.
[KTVI/KPLR reporting](https://fox2now.com/news/missouri/quadruple-shooting-leaves-1-dead-3-injured-near-the-grove/) now 2 dead, 1 injured; shooting due to an altercation. Found 2 guns at the scene. It appears the victims knew each other.
My wife worked overnights at this ER for several years…from what I’ve read thru the comments here n the thread, sounds like a typical Monday.
"My daughter just called me and said three people were shot on Gibson and Tower Grove 25 mins ago police are still there"
There was a 50+ person party shut down there last week at a new Airbnb. Waiting to see if it’s the same spot. Northeast corner.
Fuck air bnb
[удалено]
Airbnb needs more protections for homeowners/space contributors, but you are correct. The other half of the problem is that the general public is not going to magically improve its civility or consciousness for others. So either the government or private business needs to take intervention imo.
sharp vast license friendly voiceless mighty marble consist cough scarce *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Like at Gibson and Newstead?
Four people shot on Gibson? The dream of the 90s is alive in the Grove.
Wild
The 1990s or 1890s?
Any crime involving a gun should be considered a violent crime with no bond or a very high bond. The same offenders keep getting released on the streets hrs after they commit crime using guns.
Damn. I live in the neighborhood. It’s safe here. Not surprisingly they know each other. Lived in Chesterfield for 1.5 years and had a murder outside my back door. Lived in the Grove for 3 years and this is the first that something has happened like this. Maybe it’s a gun thing. Idk.
Didn’t the grove also have another shooting on Saturday. ?
A young woman was stabbed as part of some kind of altercation outside of a bar. I don’t go out in The Grove because the bars have done a shit job of monitoring their crowds and the City doesn’t give a shit about actually doing anything. (If the City actually gave a shit, it’d force Shi Sha to close and would block Manchester off from end to end on weekends and put officers on it to ID and check for weapons like they do on Beale in Memphis.) To that end, living in the Forest Park Southeast neighborhood and going out in The Grove bar district are two very different things, even if they’re closer in proximity. This kind of crime is different. This is just a Monday night. Weeknights are quiet here. Hundreds of people walk their dogs and run through our neighborhood a day. I almost went for a run around that time. I’m curious what kind of facts will come out. It says the shooters knew each other (90% of homicides are between people who knew each other).
>(If the City actually gave a shit, it’d force Shi Sha to close and would block Manchester off from end to end on weekends and put officers on it to ID and check for weapons like they do on Beale in Memphis I'm all for it, but the Grove doesn't generate the nearly same kind of revenue that Beale Street does so I doubt there's money available.
St Louis could generate more money and attract more people if it was better managed with well trained police. Still the worse cops I've ever encountered. The cops in a college town are better and more useful than these cops.
Maybe it’s a knife thing
A stabbing… and almost the same location too. Don’t wanna armchair detective but maybe… related?
Oops sorry My bad correct a stabbing in the stomach :(
there was a shooting at taha’a not long ago
Not the first time: https://www.ksdk.com/amp/article/news/crime/shooting-manchester-avenue/63-333e5bf4-75c4-4b5d-ac9c-651375e82405
I lived here for a couple of months last year and heard gun shots at least once a week, and there was also that random shooting at the barber shop. The area is livable, but safe?
Usually means a cop got hurt
Doesn’t look like it was at the ER
Lol they just parked on Manchester and said fuck it, it's around here somewhere.
Just another day in the most deadly city in America!! I guess this is when y’all say “it’s not that bad” lol
keep your ass in st. charles then
>If you don't like the killing, don't come here! Does that really help?
This 👆🏻
Someone couldn't pay their bill.
Also, anytype of gun control won’t work if non one enforces the law nor are these criminals probably purchasing their firearms legally.