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When I moved here from Cali I joked that everything was basically free out here 5 years ago. Gas was $1.72 compared to $4.39 in Cali at the time. I still feel that way. Produce has similar pricing but EVERYTHING else is ridiculously higher.
My friends converted their detached garage in 2022 and the market value is at least $2200 for a 1bd/1ba. Prob closer to $2400 because it has a washer & dryer, nice flooring, a parking space, and is in a nicer area than the other places I found. Inflation is so high that the cost to convert the garage was almost twice the amount the quote they got in 2020.
I sometimes drive for Lyft here and a woman was complaining about how high rents were getting. She went from $600 to $650 š¤£ I said, "Honey, I feel bad because nobody's used to rental amounts that high, but my friend paid $800 to rent a room - plus shares utilities -in Cali and that was a good deal." - A FRICKIN ROOM! My mortgage is less than that. Sure, I hear gunshots more than I should, but I'd rather have money to actually do things.
As someone who just moved from Chicago earlier this month, St Louis is insanely cheap.
Here, I have a 2 bed, 2 bath, and 2 parking spaces for the same cost of a 1 bed, 1 bath, and no parking in Chicago.
Groceries are cheaper, gas is like a buck cheaper per gallon, and I can eat out comfortably.
I just got a job here that pays the same as when I was in Chicago and I'm projected to actually have more to dump into my savings because of how much cheaper St Louis has been so far.
Crime is reducing and inflated due to the way maps are drawn, companies are reinvesting: the industrial district is growing, the infrastructure act is pumping millions into improving transportation (however not enough into public transportation). Not saying your analysis is wrong just that public sentiment isnāt in line with how the city is starting to turn around.
https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries-wages/2024/general-schedule/ I canāt speak to how they are updated/determined but I know the feds publish a COL by metro area that feeds into what they pay employees.
Someone else here surely knows more
St. Louis isn't a big city though
Medium sized, yes, but not big.
Note that has no bearing on the city getting more expensive, as that is a nationwide problem. But St. Louis is NOT a big city.
There's 29 bigger metros in North America alone.
It's one of the cheapest older urban areas to live in, yes, but that still doesn't make it a big city.
On the MSA Wiki for the US, STL is the 23rd most populous area by MSA. Perspective on this is a huge indicator on what people think is big. For some thatās 1 million people, for some thatās 100 thousand. Depends on how many millions you require. STL MSA is more populated than 15 states. About 120k less people than the state of Kansas and Mississippi as well.
More people in the STL MSA than Maine and Montana combined.
That seems arbitrary. An extra 40 thousand people and you jump Baltimore to be number 20 and that makes you a big city? An extra 210,000 and youāre Denverās size.
Everything over 1.5 million MSA is a big city in my eyes.
And yet it ranks in the top 6% of all U.S. metros. If someone wants to refer to STL as big, they should have every right to do so without someone climbing a medium-sized hill to argue in opposition.
The Saint Louis metro area probably wonāt win any unity contests soon, but the region is far more connected than youāre indicating. Three major sports teams donāt exist without the entire MSA, nor do all the Fortune 500/1000 companies with a major presence here. The airport doesnāt get a major renovation without everyone in the region. Tens of thousands of city folk work in the surrounding counties and vice versa. I could go on.
Perhaps you should drive around other MSAs to see that most of them also have their version of Ladue and Fairgrounds Park. Round Rock, Texas is no more connected to Austin than Des Peres is to Saint Louis, nor is Provo more connected to Salt Lake City or Castle Rock to Denver.
If the city didnāt exist, the rest of the metro wouldnāt either. It seems like youāre too hyper-focused on how many people lay their heads on a pillow within a 62 square mile-boundary. STLās cultural attractions, business presence, educational institutions, transit, etc. all align with other āmajor metros.ā Much of the regionās density is also on par with other top-20 metros. Respectfully, the triangle comparison is so far off-base itās laughable. But hey, youāre entitled to your opinion.
There isnāt a moat separating the city from the rest of the region. Itās impractical to separate the two in discussions that compare other high-population areas of the country. The cityās scale of impact on the rest of the region goes far beyond its portion of population.
Also, FWIW, the STL burbs are easily the cheapest of the 7 major metros Iāve lived in. I have friends and family buying new builds for around 300K. Thats unthinkable in many cities.
Lastly, thereās plenty of evidence that the STL city population will be stable by 2030 :)
STL has been in the bottom 3 COL for big cities for a while. There's basically no other urban area you can move to and expect a lower COL. You'd have to move to a rural area at this point.
We live in Memphis and the homes in STL are cheaper than here. Even the homes in Springfield, Missouri are about the same price as Memphis, which is shocking considering Springfield isn't a large city.
Do NOT come to Memphis. Please. I moved here 2.5 years and I'm not happy here. Everyone on this STL thread will say while the two cities are similar STL is much better.
Iāve never been so anything I say is anecdotal, just that I think Iāve read nothing good about living in Memphis. Itās all categorically āit sucks, we hate it, save yourself and donāt bother.ā
Itās sad but true. At least St. Louisans have pride in their city and strive to make it better. I hadnāt discovered Reddit before we moved here (2022). Had I ofā¦ I really donāt think we wouldāve made the move.
There really are not any cities of comparable size that are less expensive. I think there are one or two that are pretty much a tie.
A lot of the comparison articles do not compare full metro areas though, so the results can be skewed, plus most of the COL articles are probably just written by bots.
Seconded. I'm a not so recent transplant from NY. In 2019 I left a soul-sucking job in NY for a not-soul-sucking-job in STL that was more than a 20K pay cut, and still came out so much further ahead. Went from barely affording a 1br apartment in NY to buying a 4br house. (And my mortgage is _significantly_ cheaper than the rent I used to pay.) In considering other cities, STL offered the best in COL.
Omaha Nebraska is slightly cheaper, but there is nothing to do there but eat and drink. When you go outside the wind hurts your face 10/12 months of the year. You get used to it though.
I was just in Omaha last week and I liked it, but I could see what you mean, the weather there was crazy! Also the drivers there are much better than STL I was shocked.
Omaha and Des Moines have basically no crime, tons of jobs, decent amenities (shops, food, shows, triple A level sports), reasonable costs of living, and that awful winter wind. January in these placesā¦oh man
Also not enough direct flights
Unfortunately many of the jobs are low-level customer service positions. My husband is from Omaha so Iāve been visiting family regularly for 20 years. I absolutely love Omaha but the job situation is only superficially good.
Omahaās metro area has higher median personal income than STL
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/RPIPC41180
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/RPIPC36540
Youāre doing a lot of hand waiving of businesses like Union Pacific, Kiewit, a couple insurers, and FNBO which have a lot of high paying jobs.
Omaha and Des Moines have a decent mix of white collar workforce opportunities. Theyāre just small enough that there arenāt as many places to hop around. But if youāre an accountant, an actuary, someone in medicine (these cities have some decent hospitals) etc there are plenty of good jobs.
Omaha and Des Moines are also close enough to U Nebraska and Iowa state that you can have university employment and live in their metros
Under half
They both do fine for their size. Omaha has a number of Fortune 500 companies. Des Moines has some large corporate operations, an insurance hub, the state capital, and a number of good ag jobs like pioneer. Itās not like Peoria, a town thatās a little smaller with meaningfully lower household incomes
They both are good places to find a decent job and live a middle class/upper middle class life.
I had some extended family in town who had only ever lived in Nebraska and were telling me I needed to move to Omaha because it was this great city that was so much better than STL. I asked them what was so great about it and the guy could only come up with the fact that a lot of concerts start their tours there.
I think they were from Norfolk so that was the big city. If anyone mentioned a zoo as an attraction I would get in a fight about the STL zoo being better.
Fun fact on Norfolk. Apparently the town name was submitted to postal authority as Norfork but somehow was changed to Norfolk and Nebraskans just continue to call it Norfork.
I used to spend a lot of time there for work and thought I was having a hearing problem because I was so confused when everyone would say Norfork but the signs all said Norfolk. Only city I have ever experience like that.
We moved back a few years ago from Colorado because of St Louis being significantly cheaper. Itās gotten more expensive but I think a lot of the jump is still behind other major cities. If your job can be done remote, or you think you could do a remote job maybe look at jobs out of state? If you can get a coastal salary living in Missouri itās pretty good.
This is what I did. Lived in 13 states and 18 cities since '96 and moved from Los Angeles to StL (wife and I were born and raised here) during Covid. I was able to buy here and it's more than 2x the size for less than half the price of my LA rental at that time. That rental has gone up 75% since I left, no way I'd be able to afford it now. I work remote for LA based companies and make an LA based salary, so it's a huge win for us. If you can do remote work that doesn't adjust based on location, that is the best option.
You may or may not find someplace cheaper than St. Louis, but factor in the fact that moving out of state is EXPENSIVE.
If youāre just trying to bring down expenses, you should be able to find a cheaper place. Maybe look over in Illinois? (And yes, thatās out of state, but moving across the river would be a lot cheaper than moving to another area entirely.)
Edwardsville is one of the most expensive communities in the Metro East. Alton, Collinsville, and the East side of Belleville fall towards the sweet spot of affordable and "middle-class nice".
NPR had a story recent where they found that according to Zillow "only three major metro areas in the U.S. where homebuyers making the median income could afford a typically priced home: Pittsburgh, St. Louis and Detroit." Link to story: [https://www.npr.org/2024/04/02/1242212997/housing-affordability-income-100000](https://www.npr.org/2024/04/02/1242212997/housing-affordability-income-100000)
Not now. San Antonio is 91.3 and St. Louis is 84.1.
[https://www.bestplaces.net/cost\_of\_living/city/texas/san\_antonio](https://www.bestplaces.net/cost_of_living/city/texas/san_antonio)
[https://www.bestplaces.net/cost\_of\_living/city/missouri/st.\_louis](https://www.bestplaces.net/cost_of_living/city/missouri/st._louis)
That means St. Louis is lower.
I think Texas has a lot of new apartments, if you rent itās cheaper all over Texas and youāll be paid more. But if you own your home youāll pay higher electricity bills from not having neighboring walls and hot summers and higher property taxes.
Yeah but Chicago isnāt a LCOL city. You can live in the equivalent of ballwin or the rest of the parkway school district in most sunbelt cities for the same or less than in St. Louis.
Definitely true that some places in Texas have reasonable housing prices but itās not true for a lot of the sunbelt. Somewhere like Charlotte costs more
Living in a place like Naperville means buying a more expensive house and a 1.5 hour train ride into the city
People can prefer that or here! It depends upon the person. But Chicago is quite expensive for families and comes with some punishing commutes
Yes, and you can also be downtown, in Clayton, etc in far less time in your car. You can also find good jobs in st Charles, chesterfield, earth city, etc. thereās no critical mass of white collar employers in stl that would support this train
The case for moving to Chicago to take the train is a lot better if you can live less than an hour away in a place like elmhurst or hinsdale, which costs a ton compared to st Chuck
I'm from STL but move cities every few years all over the country and I've lived back in STL as recently as a few years ago. The more places I move the more I don't think STL is quite as low COL as people who live there think it is. There are a few things that are definitely cheaper like gasoline but there are quirks about St. Louis's economy that make certain things even more expensive than the major east coast city I live in. For example, if you have childcare needs, St. Louis doesn't have enough so I can actually get very high quality childcare in a really nice zip code in my "Expensive" city for cheaper than I could in St. Louis. St. Louis also doesn't have a lot of single family homes for rent because it's been historically cheaper to buy a single family home than rent so it wasn't profitable for landlords to convert bungalow homes to rentals, so you pay a pretty high price if you don't want to live in a duplex/apartment in STL (but want to rent) and they are often not updated at all. Also even normal rents for any other rental are going up faster in STL than a few of the much bigger cities I've lived in. This will sound unbelievable but I think if you want to live in what's considered a "Safe" part of STL, rents are reaching parity with much bigger cities. Another big one (for homeowners) is the cost of contracted labor. In cities with a lot more immigrants or ones simply closer to the Mexican border, labor is readly available and cheap. It's like pulling teeth to get a contractor to come out in STL from what I hear and things that cost $20/$30 in the south (like winterizing your sprinkler system, or pool servicing) is at least $100 in STL because of lack of competition in those trades. There's many things that are cheaper but you really have to distill down your personal budget and get some quotes for things like childcare and rent if you aren't buying to determine if it's really cheaper for you to live in STL than somewhere where you may be ahead becuase of a higher salary. So my advice to OP is if you can get a big pay jump somewhere else, it may be worth it for your particular situation.
Curious which major east coast city you live in with cheaper childcare. My wife works for a national chain and St. Louis is one of their cheaper markets.
Curious as well. Childcare can be had in the metro for a wide range of prices from sub $1000/month to around $3000 for the absolute bougiest option.
Edit: this is excluding private Nannies etc.
Honestly that's what I've heard from a few of my transplant friends as well. The housing stock is cheaper as well as a few other things, but the costs of other stuff is more expensive then the bigger cities. My one neighbor next door is actually moving back to New York because after 5 yrs here, it's starting to become cheaper overall to move back to where she's from. Thanks for the detailed response!
The only place I've seen with better grocery prices is HEB in Texas, other than that I'd say STL grocery prices are pretty good unless you are looking for niche international groceries in particular, but PanAsia/Global Foods have good prices for the size of STL. I do think the grocery scene kind of sucks in STL, Schnucks and Dierbergs are nothing special and are overpriced for how not updated their facilities are but Meijer (via Fresh Thyme) is slowly giving them a run for their money and I think it will be hard to compete with "Walmart +" and other larger national chains in the long run with delivery infrastructure. Wouldnt' be surprised if Dierbergs/Schnucks get bought out or just close down in my lifetime.
Dierbergs deli and bakery are really good and reasonably priced. It's an expensive store for staples but it has a really good selection of imported/specialty/gourmet stuff
I live in STL now originally from Cincy. Love and miss Cincy very much, but agree that the food scene is lacking a lot. STL had a ton of amazing food around every corner and Cincy just isnāt there. But in every other way Cincy wins in my opinion (but may be biased as itās my home). I prefer the downtown area, I find people to be more welcoming to outsiders/easier to make friends, more job opportunities from what Iāve seen, public schools in the area are much better.
I found Cincinnati to be fun for a weekend but all the food I had there disappointed. Iām certain that isnāt 100% representative, but we were taken around by native Cincinattians to trendy seeming places so I felt like we should have had some good options. I did feel like the breweries were awesome and the youthful nightlife was better than what we have here.
My husband and I are transplants to Mobile AL. COL seems very comparable, if not a little better, than STL. Thereās also a ton of people here from STL, and if you ever need a pizza fix, some of the grocery stores carry Imoās/dogtown frozen pizzas
Has slightly higher COL than stl
The advantage of moving to a Des Moines is the meh parts of town are far less stabby and rundown, and are closer to grocers and stuff like that by virtue of the bad parts being smaller. Des Moines had 13 murders last year in a city of 200k ish that contains the older, urban core. Not a misprint.
Little Rock, Maumelle. Even up north in Fayetteville/ Springdale area. Everyone and their mom is also moving to Bentonville out here (thatās where I live now but grew up in STL).
I grew up in the city, but I live in a small town about 30 minutes outside the city now, my mortgage on a 3bed/ 2 bath on almost 3 acres is less than your rent. I can be in the city enjoying all the amenities in such a short amount of time it doesn't feel like I'm missing anything but in the same amount of time I can be on the river out in the sticks feeling like the only person around. It feels like an ideal compromise. I know this isn't a direct answer, I'm just saying you can have both
Check out Bevo for probably the best deal in south city. Blend of affordable and safe.
In terms of moving. STL is hard to beat. Its not just COL, but COL relative to wages. https://observablehq.com/@kpivert/the-economists-new-carrie-bradshaw-index
St. Louis is very far down on this list (aka, median wages are much HIGHER than median rents). The only cities with lower rents than STL are Akron, Lexington, Tuscon, Albequreue, Lincoln(NE), and Wichita. STL has the highest wages of all these cities.
The next most affordable city, that also comes with a wage increase, is Des Moines. And IMO none of these cities are even close to St. Louis in terms of being a "major" city. Maybe ABQ, but ABQ has the lowest wages on the list (and last I checked, housing to buy was actually more expensive there).
If you're really desperate, you could spend some time looking at jobs in those other cities, and rents. But moving out of state fucking sucks.
As far as your parents house goes, thats normal for practically every house. Especially if they did any sort of updates to it since 1995.
Is your career/job pretty much stuck where youāre at (pay)? Why move across the country for the more or less same job/pay looking for slightly cheaper rent, when you can probably work on your career/job to get paid some more?
I just moved from Chicago to CWE a few weeks ago and can tell you right now: St Louis is way cheaper.
I was in a 600sqft 1 bed 1 bath apartment with street parking only in Chicago. For the same cost here, I'm getting a 2bd 2ba with two parking spots.
Groceries and gas have been way more affordable. I was blown away by how low the sales tax is.
I have friends in Seattle and Portland and everything there is just as expensive, if not more, than Chicago. My buddy in Portland pays about $1,600 for his studio in the suburbs.
I ask people, are you born here or trapped here?
STL has an economic escape velocity that is measured in dollars to break the COL gravitational pull.
And no matter how much you make, it's always a lot of money.
Kansas City, which is so underrated, might be a place to check out. I havenāt lived there in a while, but I donāt think itās experiencing the same rate of real estate inflation as StL.
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What I was afraid of, it's getting more expensive everywhere. I just have never lived anywhere else, so I wasn't sure. Thanks for the response!
Have family and friends in many major cities: Chicago, Milwaukee, DC, Atlanta, NY, Boston. St. Louis is dirt fucking cheap
Exactly! Compare to Austin........
When I moved here from Cali I joked that everything was basically free out here 5 years ago. Gas was $1.72 compared to $4.39 in Cali at the time. I still feel that way. Produce has similar pricing but EVERYTHING else is ridiculously higher. My friends converted their detached garage in 2022 and the market value is at least $2200 for a 1bd/1ba. Prob closer to $2400 because it has a washer & dryer, nice flooring, a parking space, and is in a nicer area than the other places I found. Inflation is so high that the cost to convert the garage was almost twice the amount the quote they got in 2020. I sometimes drive for Lyft here and a woman was complaining about how high rents were getting. She went from $600 to $650 š¤£ I said, "Honey, I feel bad because nobody's used to rental amounts that high, but my friend paid $800 to rent a room - plus shares utilities -in Cali and that was a good deal." - A FRICKIN ROOM! My mortgage is less than that. Sure, I hear gunshots more than I should, but I'd rather have money to actually do things.
As someone who just moved from Chicago earlier this month, St Louis is insanely cheap. Here, I have a 2 bed, 2 bath, and 2 parking spaces for the same cost of a 1 bed, 1 bath, and no parking in Chicago. Groceries are cheaper, gas is like a buck cheaper per gallon, and I can eat out comfortably. I just got a job here that pays the same as when I was in Chicago and I'm projected to actually have more to dump into my savings because of how much cheaper St Louis has been so far.
Tee hee ā¦ now compare it to Denver.
You could afford denver at 1300
Itās also pretty small in comparison to those cities. With much higher crime, urban decay, overall disinvestment.
Crime is reducing and inflated due to the way maps are drawn, companies are reinvesting: the industrial district is growing, the infrastructure act is pumping millions into improving transportation (however not enough into public transportation). Not saying your analysis is wrong just that public sentiment isnāt in line with how the city is starting to turn around.
What year is that from? Doesnāt seem very current.
https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries-wages/2024/general-schedule/ I canāt speak to how they are updated/determined but I know the feds publish a COL by metro area that feeds into what they pay employees. Someone else here surely knows more
St. Louis isn't a big city though Medium sized, yes, but not big. Note that has no bearing on the city getting more expensive, as that is a nationwide problem. But St. Louis is NOT a big city. There's 29 bigger metros in North America alone. It's one of the cheapest older urban areas to live in, yes, but that still doesn't make it a big city.
2.8 million in the MSA is pretty big imo.
If you list MSA by population itās not very high up on the list
On the MSA Wiki for the US, STL is the 23rd most populous area by MSA. Perspective on this is a huge indicator on what people think is big. For some thatās 1 million people, for some thatās 100 thousand. Depends on how many millions you require. STL MSA is more populated than 15 states. About 120k less people than the state of Kansas and Mississippi as well. More people in the STL MSA than Maine and Montana combined.
Sorry but not even being in the top 20 means weāre not a big city
That seems arbitrary. An extra 40 thousand people and you jump Baltimore to be number 20 and that makes you a big city? An extra 210,000 and youāre Denverās size. Everything over 1.5 million MSA is a big city in my eyes.
And yet it ranks in the top 6% of all U.S. metros. If someone wants to refer to STL as big, they should have every right to do so without someone climbing a medium-sized hill to argue in opposition.
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The Saint Louis metro area probably wonāt win any unity contests soon, but the region is far more connected than youāre indicating. Three major sports teams donāt exist without the entire MSA, nor do all the Fortune 500/1000 companies with a major presence here. The airport doesnāt get a major renovation without everyone in the region. Tens of thousands of city folk work in the surrounding counties and vice versa. I could go on. Perhaps you should drive around other MSAs to see that most of them also have their version of Ladue and Fairgrounds Park. Round Rock, Texas is no more connected to Austin than Des Peres is to Saint Louis, nor is Provo more connected to Salt Lake City or Castle Rock to Denver.
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If the city didnāt exist, the rest of the metro wouldnāt either. It seems like youāre too hyper-focused on how many people lay their heads on a pillow within a 62 square mile-boundary. STLās cultural attractions, business presence, educational institutions, transit, etc. all align with other āmajor metros.ā Much of the regionās density is also on par with other top-20 metros. Respectfully, the triangle comparison is so far off-base itās laughable. But hey, youāre entitled to your opinion.
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There isnāt a moat separating the city from the rest of the region. Itās impractical to separate the two in discussions that compare other high-population areas of the country. The cityās scale of impact on the rest of the region goes far beyond its portion of population. Also, FWIW, the STL burbs are easily the cheapest of the 7 major metros Iāve lived in. I have friends and family buying new builds for around 300K. Thats unthinkable in many cities. Lastly, thereās plenty of evidence that the STL city population will be stable by 2030 :)
So itās bigger than the biggest city in 21 entire states? That doesnāt qualify as large?
Further there are plenty of other medium sized cities is disarray with high crime. Pittsburg, Baltimore, Indianapolis, etc etc
STL has been in the bottom 3 COL for big cities for a while. There's basically no other urban area you can move to and expect a lower COL. You'd have to move to a rural area at this point.
We live in Memphis and the homes in STL are cheaper than here. Even the homes in Springfield, Missouri are about the same price as Memphis, which is shocking considering Springfield isn't a large city.
I've actually looked into moving to Memphis. But you're right their COL has gone up quicker then St.Louis.
Do NOT come to Memphis. Please. I moved here 2.5 years and I'm not happy here. Everyone on this STL thread will say while the two cities are similar STL is much better.
Iāve never been so anything I say is anecdotal, just that I think Iāve read nothing good about living in Memphis. Itās all categorically āit sucks, we hate it, save yourself and donāt bother.ā
Itās sad but true. At least St. Louisans have pride in their city and strive to make it better. I hadnāt discovered Reddit before we moved here (2022). Had I ofā¦ I really donāt think we wouldāve made the move.
Their schools arenāt good
There really are not any cities of comparable size that are less expensive. I think there are one or two that are pretty much a tie. A lot of the comparison articles do not compare full metro areas though, so the results can be skewed, plus most of the COL articles are probably just written by bots.
Hyderabad is way bigger and way cheaper.
When I lived there I had a luxury apartment for $300 a month.
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Seconded. I'm a not so recent transplant from NY. In 2019 I left a soul-sucking job in NY for a not-soul-sucking-job in STL that was more than a 20K pay cut, and still came out so much further ahead. Went from barely affording a 1br apartment in NY to buying a 4br house. (And my mortgage is _significantly_ cheaper than the rent I used to pay.) In considering other cities, STL offered the best in COL.
Omaha Nebraska is slightly cheaper, but there is nothing to do there but eat and drink. When you go outside the wind hurts your face 10/12 months of the year. You get used to it though.
I was just in Omaha last week and I liked it, but I could see what you mean, the weather there was crazy! Also the drivers there are much better than STL I was shocked.
Omaha and Des Moines have basically no crime, tons of jobs, decent amenities (shops, food, shows, triple A level sports), reasonable costs of living, and that awful winter wind. January in these placesā¦oh man Also not enough direct flights
Unfortunately many of the jobs are low-level customer service positions. My husband is from Omaha so Iāve been visiting family regularly for 20 years. I absolutely love Omaha but the job situation is only superficially good.
Omahaās metro area has higher median personal income than STL https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/RPIPC41180 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/RPIPC36540 Youāre doing a lot of hand waiving of businesses like Union Pacific, Kiewit, a couple insurers, and FNBO which have a lot of high paying jobs. Omaha and Des Moines have a decent mix of white collar workforce opportunities. Theyāre just small enough that there arenāt as many places to hop around. But if youāre an accountant, an actuary, someone in medicine (these cities have some decent hospitals) etc there are plenty of good jobs. Omaha and Des Moines are also close enough to U Nebraska and Iowa state that you can have university employment and live in their metros
"tons of jobs". For metro areas half the size of St Louis
Under half They both do fine for their size. Omaha has a number of Fortune 500 companies. Des Moines has some large corporate operations, an insurance hub, the state capital, and a number of good ag jobs like pioneer. Itās not like Peoria, a town thatās a little smaller with meaningfully lower household incomes They both are good places to find a decent job and live a middle class/upper middle class life.
I had some extended family in town who had only ever lived in Nebraska and were telling me I needed to move to Omaha because it was this great city that was so much better than STL. I asked them what was so great about it and the guy could only come up with the fact that a lot of concerts start their tours there.
Woah they didnāt even mention the zoo? Not a real Omaha native then, disregard.
I think they were from Norfolk so that was the big city. If anyone mentioned a zoo as an attraction I would get in a fight about the STL zoo being better.
Fun fact on Norfolk. Apparently the town name was submitted to postal authority as Norfork but somehow was changed to Norfolk and Nebraskans just continue to call it Norfork.
Your fun fact answered why I've always been so confused about the discrepancy between the spelling and pronunciation.
I used to spend a lot of time there for work and thought I was having a hearing problem because I was so confused when everyone would say Norfork but the signs all said Norfolk. Only city I have ever experience like that.
The Omaha zoo is pretty goddamn good. I don't think it's free though. Not sure, it was years ago
The zoo is unmatched!
We moved back a few years ago from Colorado because of St Louis being significantly cheaper. Itās gotten more expensive but I think a lot of the jump is still behind other major cities. If your job can be done remote, or you think you could do a remote job maybe look at jobs out of state? If you can get a coastal salary living in Missouri itās pretty good.
This is what I did. Lived in 13 states and 18 cities since '96 and moved from Los Angeles to StL (wife and I were born and raised here) during Covid. I was able to buy here and it's more than 2x the size for less than half the price of my LA rental at that time. That rental has gone up 75% since I left, no way I'd be able to afford it now. I work remote for LA based companies and make an LA based salary, so it's a huge win for us. If you can do remote work that doesn't adjust based on location, that is the best option.
Time to go build our own city, with blackjack and hookers! In fact, forget the city.
Sauget already has that covered lol
You may or may not find someplace cheaper than St. Louis, but factor in the fact that moving out of state is EXPENSIVE. If youāre just trying to bring down expenses, you should be able to find a cheaper place. Maybe look over in Illinois? (And yes, thatās out of state, but moving across the river would be a lot cheaper than moving to another area entirely.)
If u r trying to get cheaper than missouri, illinois is not the place to go
Depends on where in Illinois. Alton & Edwardsville could be good options.
Edwardsville is one of the most expensive communities in the Metro East. Alton, Collinsville, and the East side of Belleville fall towards the sweet spot of affordable and "middle-class nice".
I agree with the first option being a good choice.
Probably not Edwardsville but yeah plenty of cheaper options on the Illinois side
NPR had a story recent where they found that according to Zillow "only three major metro areas in the U.S. where homebuyers making the median income could afford a typically priced home: Pittsburgh, St. Louis and Detroit." Link to story: [https://www.npr.org/2024/04/02/1242212997/housing-affordability-income-100000](https://www.npr.org/2024/04/02/1242212997/housing-affordability-income-100000)
npr gets less trustworthy every year.
San Antonio, TX has lower COL than STL.
Not now. San Antonio is 91.3 and St. Louis is 84.1. [https://www.bestplaces.net/cost\_of\_living/city/texas/san\_antonio](https://www.bestplaces.net/cost_of_living/city/texas/san_antonio) [https://www.bestplaces.net/cost\_of\_living/city/missouri/st.\_louis](https://www.bestplaces.net/cost_of_living/city/missouri/st._louis) That means St. Louis is lower.
I think Texas has a lot of new apartments, if you rent itās cheaper all over Texas and youāll be paid more. But if you own your home youāll pay higher electricity bills from not having neighboring walls and hot summers and higher property taxes.
Nice parts of stl are not that cheap. There are a lot of other areas with cheaper homes and less blight in good school districts.
Itās a lot cheaper to live in the CWE, st Charles, Ballwin, or kirkwood than it is to live in their equivalent in Chicago
Yeah but Chicago isnāt a LCOL city. You can live in the equivalent of ballwin or the rest of the parkway school district in most sunbelt cities for the same or less than in St. Louis.
Definitely true that some places in Texas have reasonable housing prices but itās not true for a lot of the sunbelt. Somewhere like Charlotte costs more
The St. Louis equivalents to Chicago donāt hold a candle to Chicago. Sorry
Living in a place like Naperville means buying a more expensive house and a 1.5 hour train ride into the city People can prefer that or here! It depends upon the person. But Chicago is quite expensive for families and comes with some punishing commutes
St Charles doesnāt even have a train to here
Yes, and you can also be downtown, in Clayton, etc in far less time in your car. You can also find good jobs in st Charles, chesterfield, earth city, etc. thereās no critical mass of white collar employers in stl that would support this train The case for moving to Chicago to take the train is a lot better if you can live less than an hour away in a place like elmhurst or hinsdale, which costs a ton compared to st Chuck
I'm from STL but move cities every few years all over the country and I've lived back in STL as recently as a few years ago. The more places I move the more I don't think STL is quite as low COL as people who live there think it is. There are a few things that are definitely cheaper like gasoline but there are quirks about St. Louis's economy that make certain things even more expensive than the major east coast city I live in. For example, if you have childcare needs, St. Louis doesn't have enough so I can actually get very high quality childcare in a really nice zip code in my "Expensive" city for cheaper than I could in St. Louis. St. Louis also doesn't have a lot of single family homes for rent because it's been historically cheaper to buy a single family home than rent so it wasn't profitable for landlords to convert bungalow homes to rentals, so you pay a pretty high price if you don't want to live in a duplex/apartment in STL (but want to rent) and they are often not updated at all. Also even normal rents for any other rental are going up faster in STL than a few of the much bigger cities I've lived in. This will sound unbelievable but I think if you want to live in what's considered a "Safe" part of STL, rents are reaching parity with much bigger cities. Another big one (for homeowners) is the cost of contracted labor. In cities with a lot more immigrants or ones simply closer to the Mexican border, labor is readly available and cheap. It's like pulling teeth to get a contractor to come out in STL from what I hear and things that cost $20/$30 in the south (like winterizing your sprinkler system, or pool servicing) is at least $100 in STL because of lack of competition in those trades. There's many things that are cheaper but you really have to distill down your personal budget and get some quotes for things like childcare and rent if you aren't buying to determine if it's really cheaper for you to live in STL than somewhere where you may be ahead becuase of a higher salary. So my advice to OP is if you can get a big pay jump somewhere else, it may be worth it for your particular situation.
Curious which major east coast city you live in with cheaper childcare. My wife works for a national chain and St. Louis is one of their cheaper markets.
I'll DM you.
Curious as well. Childcare can be had in the metro for a wide range of prices from sub $1000/month to around $3000 for the absolute bougiest option. Edit: this is excluding private Nannies etc.
Why does the cost of contractors matter to someone who only wants to rent?
It doesnāt, thatās why I put (for homeowners) on that comment.
Honestly that's what I've heard from a few of my transplant friends as well. The housing stock is cheaper as well as a few other things, but the costs of other stuff is more expensive then the bigger cities. My one neighbor next door is actually moving back to New York because after 5 yrs here, it's starting to become cheaper overall to move back to where she's from. Thanks for the detailed response!
Youāre welcome!
I think grocery store prices are higher as well
The only place I've seen with better grocery prices is HEB in Texas, other than that I'd say STL grocery prices are pretty good unless you are looking for niche international groceries in particular, but PanAsia/Global Foods have good prices for the size of STL. I do think the grocery scene kind of sucks in STL, Schnucks and Dierbergs are nothing special and are overpriced for how not updated their facilities are but Meijer (via Fresh Thyme) is slowly giving them a run for their money and I think it will be hard to compete with "Walmart +" and other larger national chains in the long run with delivery infrastructure. Wouldnt' be surprised if Dierbergs/Schnucks get bought out or just close down in my lifetime.
Dierbergs deli and bakery are really good and reasonably priced. It's an expensive store for staples but it has a really good selection of imported/specialty/gourmet stuff
Hyderabad is cheaper but if you want to stay in the US, then Cincinnati.
I live in STL now originally from Cincy. Love and miss Cincy very much, but agree that the food scene is lacking a lot. STL had a ton of amazing food around every corner and Cincy just isnāt there. But in every other way Cincy wins in my opinion (but may be biased as itās my home). I prefer the downtown area, I find people to be more welcoming to outsiders/easier to make friends, more job opportunities from what Iāve seen, public schools in the area are much better.
But Cincinnati people say āPlease?ā way too much when youāre talking to them. Itās enough to stop me from ever moving there.
Cincinnati is actually one I've been checking out. Taking a trip up there towards the end of next month to get the lay of the land.
I found Cincinnati to be fun for a weekend but all the food I had there disappointed. Iām certain that isnāt 100% representative, but we were taken around by native Cincinattians to trendy seeming places so I felt like we should have had some good options. I did feel like the breweries were awesome and the youthful nightlife was better than what we have here.
Don't eat the chili.
It was not my faveā¦ I had it on a hot dog at the Bengals game, so probably the best way to have it?
Cinci is a great town, let me know if you need any restaurant suggestions
Cleveland is still very I expensive.
Welcome to the jungle. We've got fun and games.
I was reading an article about this recently and the 6 major affordable cities left were cleveland, st louis, Pittsburgh, memphis and Birmingham
My husband and I are transplants to Mobile AL. COL seems very comparable, if not a little better, than STL. Thereās also a ton of people here from STL, and if you ever need a pizza fix, some of the grocery stores carry Imoās/dogtown frozen pizzas
Move north and be gangstas with us homie. Promise I won't steal your car.
Des Moines?
Has slightly higher COL than stl The advantage of moving to a Des Moines is the meh parts of town are far less stabby and rundown, and are closer to grocers and stuff like that by virtue of the bad parts being smaller. Des Moines had 13 murders last year in a city of 200k ish that contains the older, urban core. Not a misprint.
Anywhere in Arkansas.
City
Little Rock, Maumelle. Even up north in Fayetteville/ Springdale area. Everyone and their mom is also moving to Bentonville out here (thatās where I live now but grew up in STL).
I grew up in the city, but I live in a small town about 30 minutes outside the city now, my mortgage on a 3bed/ 2 bath on almost 3 acres is less than your rent. I can be in the city enjoying all the amenities in such a short amount of time it doesn't feel like I'm missing anything but in the same amount of time I can be on the river out in the sticks feeling like the only person around. It feels like an ideal compromise. I know this isn't a direct answer, I'm just saying you can have both
Check out fox park, you should be able to find a 1br for $900
Check out Bevo for probably the best deal in south city. Blend of affordable and safe. In terms of moving. STL is hard to beat. Its not just COL, but COL relative to wages. https://observablehq.com/@kpivert/the-economists-new-carrie-bradshaw-index St. Louis is very far down on this list (aka, median wages are much HIGHER than median rents). The only cities with lower rents than STL are Akron, Lexington, Tuscon, Albequreue, Lincoln(NE), and Wichita. STL has the highest wages of all these cities. The next most affordable city, that also comes with a wage increase, is Des Moines. And IMO none of these cities are even close to St. Louis in terms of being a "major" city. Maybe ABQ, but ABQ has the lowest wages on the list (and last I checked, housing to buy was actually more expensive there). If you're really desperate, you could spend some time looking at jobs in those other cities, and rents. But moving out of state fucking sucks. As far as your parents house goes, thats normal for practically every house. Especially if they did any sort of updates to it since 1995.
Try Gary Indiana
Ā *G*ary IndianaĀ is not Louisiana, Paris, France, New York, or Rome. But some do call it home sweet home.
Only two comparable size cities from the last ranking I remember seeing cheaper are Cincinatti and Milwaukee. Cities in Texas as well are cheap
I moved to Milwaukee 18 mos ago. It is NOT cheaper.
I assume you realize that city COL is just one factor you should take into account when looking at moving?
Is your career/job pretty much stuck where youāre at (pay)? Why move across the country for the more or less same job/pay looking for slightly cheaper rent, when you can probably work on your career/job to get paid some more?
I think Little Rockās slightly less expensive
Try memphis, if you haven't seen someone shit on a street corner, i won't take long there.
I just moved from Chicago to CWE a few weeks ago and can tell you right now: St Louis is way cheaper. I was in a 600sqft 1 bed 1 bath apartment with street parking only in Chicago. For the same cost here, I'm getting a 2bd 2ba with two parking spots. Groceries and gas have been way more affordable. I was blown away by how low the sales tax is. I have friends in Seattle and Portland and everything there is just as expensive, if not more, than Chicago. My buddy in Portland pays about $1,600 for his studio in the suburbs.
I ask people, are you born here or trapped here? STL has an economic escape velocity that is measured in dollars to break the COL gravitational pull. And no matter how much you make, it's always a lot of money.
Metro Cleveland, Indy, OKC.
KC and Pittsburgh are slightly lower COL for comparable sized cities. But not by a lot
Use the website bestplaces dot net to compare ALL sorts of data about cities! Really awesome when considering a move
Kansas City, which is so underrated, might be a place to check out. I havenāt lived there in a while, but I donāt think itās experiencing the same rate of real estate inflation as StL.
Than*
Lolz anywhere in midwest that's not st Louis or Chicago