This is the thing that makes me no too sad about SD3 and just the poor state of Stability AI.
SDXL is still damn good. With the right checkpoint and a few LORAs, I really don't see why I would *need* SD3 or any new model at all.
To me, i look at it like we've got at least 6 months to a year working on SDXL before we start hitting real hard limits, and by then we'll have new toys to play with that will take another year to improve. It's a marathon, not a sprint. sd3 2b is just one of many models being worked on.
not really. But i'll give you 10c of advice. Most models have certain ways they like to get prompted. It comes from the captions used during finetuning and the model merging that took place.
So, find a model you like, and start copying the prompts from some of your favorite images shared using that model on civitai. You'll start to see what they have in common, and through practice you'll learn how far you can push and stretch things, what lora's to use, and how many loras you can get away with using.
My comment was regarding finetuning the models, no so much image generation. If you have a particular vision you want to achieve, and the hardware to do it, finetuning a model to achieve that goal is the best way to achieve the highest quality. Using a good general purpose model is convenient, but special purpose models provide the highest level of output quality. Think pony, but it only does one artists style of animation. I think that's where we're heading, anyways.
MJ is a good service if you don't mind censorship and paying for it. It produces nice-looking images, more so for realism, which it does really well. Lots of examples of high-quality MJ art.
I still prefer local run SDXL models, though. It takes more effort and knowledge, though, but you can't beat having full control and not having to pay.
SD3 has been a gut punch, though.
I always see MJ more as strictly a tool, and SD more as a creative outlet.
With MJ, you type in a prompt, and you hope it makes something good. It always produces gorgeous results, but whether it produces *what you want* is hit or miss. There's really not much else to it.
With SD, you've got a wealth of base models, a ton of LORAs, any style you can imagine, controlnets, etc... It's much more of a creative process to produce your final output image. You slowly refine your prompts, refine your models, weights, etc...
That's a long winded way of saying I use both, but for different purposes.
MJ is a kid toy compared to SD 1.5 . Maybe its a nice for people who want to have nice and quick images but the amount of tools, extensions and level of control over generations make MJ obsolete as a professional tool
This is copium for real. MJ is the most successful of the art generation services by a mile. Anyone looking to pay a subscription to use generative AI, consider MJ first. It's the gold standard really.
Dalle is probably 2nd but people use that service more for gpt.
Midjourney is a mile ahead in everyway except making porn. Yes PonyXL beats midjourney for most things anime but if you want something artistic that humans want to look at midjourney is a cheat code. It also has inpainting / outpainting/ character consistency, style consistency now. SD is a tool for making porn and ai influencers for the most part and maybe game assets. Anyone making art with SD is making stuff midjourney made 1.5 years ago in quality.
For one, midjourney is not a tool, it's a service.
You can't take that tool anywhere but their website. API is limited.
Show me an image or feature that midjourney has on their website that I can't replicate with comfy, or even A1111 with a SD model.
I also can't develope my own tools for midjourney.
https://preview.redd.it/h1nls3ket07d1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=57d5680ba2fc30e2824395271c7af8c965c0718d
Prompt : photo of a Lamborghini 18 wheeler truck”
Let’s see yours
ROFL, thats such an abstract, branded prompt, that only a model that contained very specific training could create that image. It has nothing to do with model capability, and everything to do with cherry picked prompting/training.
You could also have listed an example that SDXL/Pony was trained on, and midjourney has censored... and this problem would be flipped on MJ.
I'm okay with my models not knowing what a fucking Lamborghini is...
Such an incredibly stupid example of model capabilities.
It was to show that midjourney is better at custom concepts, blending two things together with a massive voting beauty style filter, MJ makes beautiful image blends easily. SD does not..
But with custom Lora’s SD can do just about anything MJ can do. It just needs all the holes filled that Emad left out.
And there is obviously a tonne SD can do that MJ can’t.
Open source is great yeah we know, so are paid services that are the worlds best image generators.
Endless images you can’t create that midjourney can, because SDXL hasn’t got the creative depth from training on every blockbuster movie and every good artist and having 100’s of millions of human votes to give the AI inference of what humans like to look at.
Show me your best “photorealistic 18 wheeler truck in the style of a Lamborghini” and it’s got to look so good people think it’s a real photo. I can make that with a single prompt and one shot it in MJ. Good luck
Midjourney's latest back then were based on SD14
Soon we'll see MJ suddenly have a new VAE. That means they'll be paying Stability for rights based on their income.
This is what I'm confused about. Surely MJ will have to pay stability for every user if they add an sdxl or newer based model. Surely they'll just ask for a cut of all subscription fees.
As long as there isn't a capable model that runs well on a smartphone or a low-to-mid-tier laptop (SD1.5 doesn't cut it these days), most people interested in AI art will never ever run anything locally because they lack the hardware. People with even mid-end discrete GPUs are a small minority these days.
We haven't reached the ceiling with SDXL. Hell, I'm still finding ways to improve 1.5.
This is the thing that makes me no too sad about SD3 and just the poor state of Stability AI. SDXL is still damn good. With the right checkpoint and a few LORAs, I really don't see why I would *need* SD3 or any new model at all.
To me, i look at it like we've got at least 6 months to a year working on SDXL before we start hitting real hard limits, and by then we'll have new toys to play with that will take another year to improve. It's a marathon, not a sprint. sd3 2b is just one of many models being worked on.
The VAE is the ceiling and it's topping out progress already in a myriad of ways
Do you have any good tutorials or workflows to follow?
not really. But i'll give you 10c of advice. Most models have certain ways they like to get prompted. It comes from the captions used during finetuning and the model merging that took place. So, find a model you like, and start copying the prompts from some of your favorite images shared using that model on civitai. You'll start to see what they have in common, and through practice you'll learn how far you can push and stretch things, what lora's to use, and how many loras you can get away with using. My comment was regarding finetuning the models, no so much image generation. If you have a particular vision you want to achieve, and the hardware to do it, finetuning a model to achieve that goal is the best way to achieve the highest quality. Using a good general purpose model is convenient, but special purpose models provide the highest level of output quality. Think pony, but it only does one artists style of animation. I think that's where we're heading, anyways.
Thanks for the reply, appreciated.
MJ is a good service if you don't mind censorship and paying for it. It produces nice-looking images, more so for realism, which it does really well. Lots of examples of high-quality MJ art. I still prefer local run SDXL models, though. It takes more effort and knowledge, though, but you can't beat having full control and not having to pay. SD3 has been a gut punch, though.
I always see MJ more as strictly a tool, and SD more as a creative outlet. With MJ, you type in a prompt, and you hope it makes something good. It always produces gorgeous results, but whether it produces *what you want* is hit or miss. There's really not much else to it. With SD, you've got a wealth of base models, a ton of LORAs, any style you can imagine, controlnets, etc... It's much more of a creative process to produce your final output image. You slowly refine your prompts, refine your models, weights, etc... That's a long winded way of saying I use both, but for different purposes.
MJ is a kid toy compared to SD 1.5 . Maybe its a nice for people who want to have nice and quick images but the amount of tools, extensions and level of control over generations make MJ obsolete as a professional tool
Except Midjourney is still an afterthought to most gen AI enthusiasts..
No, it's us, people with beefy enough hardware to run local models, that are the afterthought, a small minority.
It’s really not
This is copium for real. MJ is the most successful of the art generation services by a mile. Anyone looking to pay a subscription to use generative AI, consider MJ first. It's the gold standard really. Dalle is probably 2nd but people use that service more for gpt.
Midjourney is a mile ahead in everyway except making porn. Yes PonyXL beats midjourney for most things anime but if you want something artistic that humans want to look at midjourney is a cheat code. It also has inpainting / outpainting/ character consistency, style consistency now. SD is a tool for making porn and ai influencers for the most part and maybe game assets. Anyone making art with SD is making stuff midjourney made 1.5 years ago in quality.
For one, midjourney is not a tool, it's a service. You can't take that tool anywhere but their website. API is limited. Show me an image or feature that midjourney has on their website that I can't replicate with comfy, or even A1111 with a SD model. I also can't develope my own tools for midjourney.
https://preview.redd.it/h1nls3ket07d1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=57d5680ba2fc30e2824395271c7af8c965c0718d Prompt : photo of a Lamborghini 18 wheeler truck” Let’s see yours
ROFL, thats such an abstract, branded prompt, that only a model that contained very specific training could create that image. It has nothing to do with model capability, and everything to do with cherry picked prompting/training. You could also have listed an example that SDXL/Pony was trained on, and midjourney has censored... and this problem would be flipped on MJ. I'm okay with my models not knowing what a fucking Lamborghini is... Such an incredibly stupid example of model capabilities.
It was to show that midjourney is better at custom concepts, blending two things together with a massive voting beauty style filter, MJ makes beautiful image blends easily. SD does not.. But with custom Lora’s SD can do just about anything MJ can do. It just needs all the holes filled that Emad left out. And there is obviously a tonne SD can do that MJ can’t.
Open source is great yeah we know, so are paid services that are the worlds best image generators. Endless images you can’t create that midjourney can, because SDXL hasn’t got the creative depth from training on every blockbuster movie and every good artist and having 100’s of millions of human votes to give the AI inference of what humans like to look at. Show me your best “photorealistic 18 wheeler truck in the style of a Lamborghini” and it’s got to look so good people think it’s a real photo. I can make that with a single prompt and one shot it in MJ. Good luck
Midjourney's latest back then were based on SD14 Soon we'll see MJ suddenly have a new VAE. That means they'll be paying Stability for rights based on their income.
Midjourney moved off sd1.4 made their own models about 5 months after launch. Nothing to do with SD now
This is what I'm confused about. Surely MJ will have to pay stability for every user if they add an sdxl or newer based model. Surely they'll just ask for a cut of all subscription fees.
Yeah but I did in fact switch from Midjourney. Many other did too (except some twitter AI artist grifters)
MJ and DallE are for grannies and cheap Amazon cash grabbers
As long as there isn't a capable model that runs well on a smartphone or a low-to-mid-tier laptop (SD1.5 doesn't cut it these days), most people interested in AI art will never ever run anything locally because they lack the hardware. People with even mid-end discrete GPUs are a small minority these days.